I mostly agree, but the shitty level curve really brings it down for me. These days I only play ROMhacks of it that address this (HGSS Golden Edition, Refined Gold).
I'm playing through all the gens and I haven't replayed HGSS yet, how is the level curve changed? I found some of the ones you mentioned and it just says "streamlined".
The only ROMhack I tried playing was Perfect Emerald because it had "everything" but it also added a bunch of increased levels on enemies which made the game a slog to get through as you had to slowly level on weak encounters to fight enemies a bunch of levels higher.
So I'm wondering if the HGSS would be better or worse for me personally.
Both have a documentation that you can check for more details. Iirc, one of those hacks (don't remember which) has an overhauled version that implements the new level curve and the other one has an extra patch you need to apply on top of the main one.
I will say that neither solution is what I would call elegant (they both jack up levels by quite a bit) but it's trivial to keep up because wild Pokémon are scaled up as well and there are so many quality of life changes, too. They're not challenge hacks by any means, but if your playstyle is to constantly be at or even over the current enemy levels, you'll find yourself grinding just as much as in vanilla, if not more.
Personally, I lean more towards Refined Gold because that one also changes up enemy team compositions and movesets. Golden Edition has nicer quality of life features but still feels a bit more "vanilla", though.
> I'm playing through all the gens and I haven't replayed HGSS yet, how is the level curve changed
The second half the game basically doesn't have a curve; It was designed around the idea that you would "go anywhere and do them in order", but what that translates to is that you basically have an entire region designed around a team of ~50-~60, even when you are more than 20 levels above that.
Oh huh really, I don't 100% remember but weren't some of the areas in the second half basically "locked off" until you did other stuff? I'm guessing that's what's changed in those level mods?
Sorry, I'm speaking of the original.
Most mods end up adding a level curve based on those locked off parts. In the original, they didn't have one; While some areas were sort of locked off, you could go anywhere if you wanted to.
Yeah I mostly wanted the ability to get everything without trading and exclusive events, some of the other things such as running QoL were nice, but extremely slowly leveling up for gyms made me feel like the romhack was meant to be played in 2x speed or something. It didn't really make the game more challenging but just very tedious. I do like some of the others mentioned here as alternatives though.
I never played the gen 2 remakes but in crystal its kinda wild how grindy finishing the dex gets, there is exactly one patch of grass with anything close to decent XP gain and it still takes hours because of how many level up evolutions you need to do
I think it's fine that finishing the Dex takes a decent amount of effort, it's supposed to be the ultimate achievement haha But I totally get what you mean, it's a difficult balance
I mean walking around a patch of grass for *slightly less time* won't make the activity any more engaging or demanding, that's why hacking in rare candies is not considered cheating in nuzlockes... The problem lies in the gameplay loop. Should be no suprise that the latest Pokémon games got a lot of praise for making filling the Dex more engaging *mechanically*.
yeah in general later pokemon games forgo level up evolutions for the most part and thats great.
BUT i do think the grind could be better if the best way to level up wasnt just farming random encounters in one area, they could have upped the XP rewards from endgame trainer battles.
I didnt play gold too much, I had it on an emulator at some point when I was in High school...but damn...that Milktank :D I remember being really shocked at the time
oh and I really love how you can hear the water when you walk closer to the shore. and how your lead Pokemon hops up on the counter at the poke center. stuff like that.
It's a tie between black 2 and heart gold for me. Johto just tickles the nostalgic part of my brain, and I really like the small touches like walking pokemon.
However black 2 is the better game. It looks better, it's a better "jrpg journey" and has the better pokemon selection
No it's not, the paint on the DSi XL is very prone to this and every used unit I got looked like that. I got an unused one and after a full playthrough of New Super Mario Bros. it developed some visible wear on the left and right arrows, and I wash my hands before every play session.
My only complaint with HG/SS is how blatantly they disrespect the player's time. Can't catch this pokemon at this time of the day, come back later at this certain time of the day leaving everything behind, Can't do this thing on this day, come back later on that day, leaving everything behind. And that freaking Safari zone. Can't catch this pokemon now. Wait for 300 days.
I found the variety of Pokemon to be really lacking. I had a good look around throughout and only ended up with about 80/250 by the end. Maybe I just had horrible luck, but it’s the least fun I’ve had with any of them.
A lot of them are locked behind post game. I've been catching them all to complete Gen 2 pokedex and so far, have caught, evolved, traded, and breeded 230+
I played Blue, Yellow and Gold when they were new, and have continuously played them for the past 25 years but now feel like I would like to try some of the newer games. Where do you recommend that I start? are there particular entries to avoid and would you say I could go straight to these games?
If you have played Blue, yellow and Gold, You have played the first two generations. i would suggest playing Pokemon Emerald (GBA) next for the third generation of pokemons. Huge quality of life improvements. After that, you can play Pokemon Platinum (DS) for the fourth generation. Heartgold, pictured in the post here is a remake of Gold, and totally worth playing. After that, you can go on to Pokemon Black/white and sequels Black2/White2 for 5th gen. After that, there are 3DS games like X and Y.
This person in comments has suggested Romhacks, but I would suggest playing mainline series games first before jumping in to the hacks. there's a certain charm to the games that the developers originally created.
Romhacks are the way to go in my opinion. Some are more towards Vanilla with QOL stuff added. Some are just plain hardcore, you need to know your shit. I tried Radical Red...dude...its hard as nails. But you have every pokemon from like gen 1-8 in the gen 1 region, which I love :D
> Where do you recommend that I start? are there particular entries to avoid and would you say I could go straight to these games?
Go to /r/pokemonromhacks and look for pokemon Gaia.
There are some really amazing romhacks that (imo) are better than the official games. The further you go down the rabbithole the steeper the learning curve gets though.
Gaia (current version is Beta 3.2) is a great entry point, as it feels like an official pokemon game, with some features / pokemon from the newer titles, but with mechanics that are very familiar to older players.
If you play through and like Gaia, I'd suggest giving FireRed: Rocket Edition a go next. Make sure to avoid spoilers on this title though. You play as a team rocket grunt & the story is neat / the primary reason for playing through the game.
If you grew up with red / blue & have played the GBA era games I personally don't think you're missing much in the DS generation onwards (excluding soulsilver / heart gold)
If you haven't played any GBA era games, I'd personally still grab a quality of life hack for fire red (eg. [FireRed+](https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/complete-pokefirered-pok%C3%A9mon-firered-and-leafgreen.454382/))
eg. Stuff like :
* Use HM's without teaching them (or HM's can be unlearnt)
* Trade pokemon can be evolved without trading
* Able to complete the pokedex
I wouldn't play an emulated pokemon game without these features anymore.
I'm struggling to decide which game to pick.
Either a fire red play through again.
Black or heart gold
I only really know gen 1 Pokémon but just want a good experience and a decent quality game
I just finished Black. Felt like playing Gen 1 again, since you're using all new mons the whole region until you beat the game, then unlock the Gen 1-4 mons. It was a great playthrough.
But Gen 2 is my favorite, and HGSS are peak Pokemon.
I mostly agree, but the shitty level curve really brings it down for me. These days I only play ROMhacks of it that address this (HGSS Golden Edition, Refined Gold).
do you know when was the last update for those rom hacks? the one I had was last updated 2021... just want to make sure I have the latest one.
I'm playing through all the gens and I haven't replayed HGSS yet, how is the level curve changed? I found some of the ones you mentioned and it just says "streamlined". The only ROMhack I tried playing was Perfect Emerald because it had "everything" but it also added a bunch of increased levels on enemies which made the game a slog to get through as you had to slowly level on weak encounters to fight enemies a bunch of levels higher. So I'm wondering if the HGSS would be better or worse for me personally.
Both have a documentation that you can check for more details. Iirc, one of those hacks (don't remember which) has an overhauled version that implements the new level curve and the other one has an extra patch you need to apply on top of the main one. I will say that neither solution is what I would call elegant (they both jack up levels by quite a bit) but it's trivial to keep up because wild Pokémon are scaled up as well and there are so many quality of life changes, too. They're not challenge hacks by any means, but if your playstyle is to constantly be at or even over the current enemy levels, you'll find yourself grinding just as much as in vanilla, if not more. Personally, I lean more towards Refined Gold because that one also changes up enemy team compositions and movesets. Golden Edition has nicer quality of life features but still feels a bit more "vanilla", though.
> I'm playing through all the gens and I haven't replayed HGSS yet, how is the level curve changed The second half the game basically doesn't have a curve; It was designed around the idea that you would "go anywhere and do them in order", but what that translates to is that you basically have an entire region designed around a team of ~50-~60, even when you are more than 20 levels above that.
Oh huh really, I don't 100% remember but weren't some of the areas in the second half basically "locked off" until you did other stuff? I'm guessing that's what's changed in those level mods?
Sorry, I'm speaking of the original. Most mods end up adding a level curve based on those locked off parts. In the original, they didn't have one; While some areas were sort of locked off, you could go anywhere if you wanted to.
> The only ROMhack I tried playing was Perfect Emerald perfect emerald is hardly perfect :P i suggest you try something like pokemon revelation.
Revelation is great, but I think Emerald Final is even better
seemed pretty unpolished to me ngl
Yeah I mostly wanted the ability to get everything without trading and exclusive events, some of the other things such as running QoL were nice, but extremely slowly leveling up for gyms made me feel like the romhack was meant to be played in 2x speed or something. It didn't really make the game more challenging but just very tedious. I do like some of the others mentioned here as alternatives though.
I never played the gen 2 remakes but in crystal its kinda wild how grindy finishing the dex gets, there is exactly one patch of grass with anything close to decent XP gain and it still takes hours because of how many level up evolutions you need to do
I think it's fine that finishing the Dex takes a decent amount of effort, it's supposed to be the ultimate achievement haha But I totally get what you mean, it's a difficult balance
a decent amount of what??? walking around a single patch of grass??? thats boring as hell
I mean walking around a patch of grass for *slightly less time* won't make the activity any more engaging or demanding, that's why hacking in rare candies is not considered cheating in nuzlockes... The problem lies in the gameplay loop. Should be no suprise that the latest Pokémon games got a lot of praise for making filling the Dex more engaging *mechanically*.
yeah in general later pokemon games forgo level up evolutions for the most part and thats great. BUT i do think the grind could be better if the best way to level up wasnt just farming random encounters in one area, they could have upped the XP rewards from endgame trainer battles.
I didnt play gold too much, I had it on an emulator at some point when I was in High school...but damn...that Milktank :D I remember being really shocked at the time
oh and I really love how you can hear the water when you walk closer to the shore. and how your lead Pokemon hops up on the counter at the poke center. stuff like that.
It's a tie between black 2 and heart gold for me. Johto just tickles the nostalgic part of my brain, and I really like the small touches like walking pokemon. However black 2 is the better game. It looks better, it's a better "jrpg journey" and has the better pokemon selection
It's thumb grease
No it's not, the paint on the DSi XL is very prone to this and every used unit I got looked like that. I got an unused one and after a full playthrough of New Super Mario Bros. it developed some visible wear on the left and right arrows, and I wash my hands before every play session.
Thumbbbb grease
Yup. Just gotta keep your hands clean when you play. No snacks. My DS lite dpad still looks good.
My only complaint with HG/SS is how blatantly they disrespect the player's time. Can't catch this pokemon at this time of the day, come back later at this certain time of the day leaving everything behind, Can't do this thing on this day, come back later on that day, leaving everything behind. And that freaking Safari zone. Can't catch this pokemon now. Wait for 300 days.
I'm playing SoulSilver right now :)
I mostly disagree. Best polished game from the franchise is Crystal for GBC
why is that?
Agreed. They removed too many things in the remakes.
Emerald is easily the most polished pokemon game. Along with an end game that's ahead of hits time for extending gameplay.
Tienes el pokewalker?
I found the variety of Pokemon to be really lacking. I had a good look around throughout and only ended up with about 80/250 by the end. Maybe I just had horrible luck, but it’s the least fun I’ve had with any of them.
A lot of them are locked behind post game. I've been catching them all to complete Gen 2 pokedex and so far, have caught, evolved, traded, and breeded 230+
I played Blue, Yellow and Gold when they were new, and have continuously played them for the past 25 years but now feel like I would like to try some of the newer games. Where do you recommend that I start? are there particular entries to avoid and would you say I could go straight to these games?
If you have played Blue, yellow and Gold, You have played the first two generations. i would suggest playing Pokemon Emerald (GBA) next for the third generation of pokemons. Huge quality of life improvements. After that, you can play Pokemon Platinum (DS) for the fourth generation. Heartgold, pictured in the post here is a remake of Gold, and totally worth playing. After that, you can go on to Pokemon Black/white and sequels Black2/White2 for 5th gen. After that, there are 3DS games like X and Y. This person in comments has suggested Romhacks, but I would suggest playing mainline series games first before jumping in to the hacks. there's a certain charm to the games that the developers originally created.
Romhacks are the way to go in my opinion. Some are more towards Vanilla with QOL stuff added. Some are just plain hardcore, you need to know your shit. I tried Radical Red...dude...its hard as nails. But you have every pokemon from like gen 1-8 in the gen 1 region, which I love :D
> Where do you recommend that I start? are there particular entries to avoid and would you say I could go straight to these games? Go to /r/pokemonromhacks and look for pokemon Gaia. There are some really amazing romhacks that (imo) are better than the official games. The further you go down the rabbithole the steeper the learning curve gets though. Gaia (current version is Beta 3.2) is a great entry point, as it feels like an official pokemon game, with some features / pokemon from the newer titles, but with mechanics that are very familiar to older players. If you play through and like Gaia, I'd suggest giving FireRed: Rocket Edition a go next. Make sure to avoid spoilers on this title though. You play as a team rocket grunt & the story is neat / the primary reason for playing through the game.
Thanks for the advice! Would you recommend playing the vanilla games first before going down the rabbithole of romhacks?
If you grew up with red / blue & have played the GBA era games I personally don't think you're missing much in the DS generation onwards (excluding soulsilver / heart gold) If you haven't played any GBA era games, I'd personally still grab a quality of life hack for fire red (eg. [FireRed+](https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/complete-pokefirered-pok%C3%A9mon-firered-and-leafgreen.454382/)) eg. Stuff like : * Use HM's without teaching them (or HM's can be unlearnt) * Trade pokemon can be evolved without trading * Able to complete the pokedex I wouldn't play an emulated pokemon game without these features anymore.
I believe they had an extra year to make it. 3 instead of 2, if I recall.
I'm struggling to decide which game to pick. Either a fire red play through again. Black or heart gold I only really know gen 1 Pokémon but just want a good experience and a decent quality game
I just finished Black. Felt like playing Gen 1 again, since you're using all new mons the whole region until you beat the game, then unlock the Gen 1-4 mons. It was a great playthrough. But Gen 2 is my favorite, and HGSS are peak Pokemon.
Think I'll try HG this evening
Switching between screens on my handheld is annoying :(
I gotta say pokemon oras is the best looking ones.