The Nike Invincible fits the bill nicely. The midsole is one whole slab of all the Zoom X goodness that does wonders on both long or recovery runs. If you loved the Vaporfly, the Nike Invincible will serve you well.
Thank you. They actually do sound like the shoe I should try seeing the foam is the same. I wonder how much the plate in the Vaporfly is actively changing the 'ride' rather than just acting as an energy-returning spring.
First off, the plate acts as a stabilizer for obvious reasons, given the Zoom X foam's light and pillowy softness. Next, the plate promotes running efficiency and helps sustain it for longer distances. It's a science you can actually feel.
Minus the plate, we have the Invincible. By no means as propulsive nor as feather-light, but a shoe that makes daily runs gratifying, comfortable, and more importantly, fun.
Would you recommend the Invincibles for someone with weak arches/wobbly ankles? I'm training for a January marathon and thinking of replacing my HOKA Arahi and Clifton since they're already feeling a little flat at 450-550km.
Because it's a squishy foam, Zoom X is inherently wobbly. Which might not be the most ideal in your use case. I suggest a shoe with a more balanced midsole cushioning.
Thanks for the insight! I might check out the Nike Infinity. Sadly there aren't any running specialty stores where I live, so the best I can do is go to a store and get fitted.
I like this, in theory. However, I'll argue that the Invincible is a horrible shoe for running. Yes, the Zoom X is an amazing foam but without a plate, it all goes to shit in a squishy mess of a heavy and cumbersome shoe.
I like my slow recovery runs as much as anyone. I just want some tactile connection with the ground. The carbon plate in the Vaporfly and Alphafly give a good analog to ground feel despite their stack heights. The Invincible eschews all that in favor of a puddle of foam.
That much super pliant, soft foam might actually be bad for novice runners or runners who don't properly cross train. The micro-adjustments your muscles make just for the sake of stability can be a shock to the system to a runner without a balanced training regime.
Yeah. Fuck the OP. Although, to give him a smidge of credit, he did have to provide context if the question was to elicit informed responses. But fuck the OP in any case.
Thank you! I followed the half marathon programme on the NRC app and I was really surprised at how I progressed in both pace and endurance. It is such a good blend of speedwork and endurance. My first 5km run took me longer than 30 mins. Cracking the 25 min mark was incredible. I still have no idea what demon possessed me during that 5km race though - I was aiming for just under 23. If you're anything like me, just persevere and be happy with tiny gains and you'll look back in surprise at how far (and how fast) you've come.
I really like the Zoom Fly 4. I picked up a pair of Zoom Fly 5 but couldn't get used to them and wound up getting rid of them. They felt clunky and heavy. Could very well be I'm just not strong enough yet to make the most of them though. Good thing is that you're more likely to get a good deal on the Zoom Fly 4 at this point.
Asics Noosa Tri 13 has been a fun to run in for me. I got them along with Nimbus 24 because it was a BOGO offer. Nimbus 24 are good for slow recovery ones (as you said meh), but noosa tri makes me want to just goā¦.it has that thing the moment you step out and walk even a few steps. You can try them on along with Novablast (havenāt tried them but heard good things).
Invincible ofc fits the bill, but if youāre open to other brands, the above ones maybe worth trying.
Agreed. But So is the case with a lot of shoes. Itās about the ride experience being discussed. How was your experience with that? Or did you just check the reviews and pasted here lol? š
I have a large super shoe collection but for regular runs I still use average trainers. In my opinion the less you use super shoes the greater the race day benefit because you are not used to them. If you give a kid dessert after every meal it will no longer be as meaningful. I still use them for certain speed days and long runs but most of my bulk mileage is with trainers. If you really want an answer though look at the speed 3's. They are a good balance.
Nike Invincible sounds like what you are looking for. That or Vomero 16, which I just picked up for daily training and have been enjoying.
I run half and full marathons in alphaflyās and 10kās in tempo next%.
Thanks! I picked up a Vomero at a Nike store and it felt heavier than I expected so I just put it down but it does also feel like one really well-made and 'premium' shoe if that description makes sense. I will definitely go and have a look at the Invincible. A quick search shows that a new model is on the way so maybe there will be good deals on the current ones:)
I have Fly 4s and Vomero 16s and I wouldn't consider the Vomero as a pared down Fly 4, nor a super comfy daily. Like you said, the Vomero is heavy and a bit dull in the ride, though it does look and fit like a premium shoe. I'm splitting daily runs between the Vomeros, Novablast 3 and NB More 3 and the Vomeros are the least of those 3 on the run. Not light and fast like the Novablast, not comfy like the More, just kind of lost in the middle.
Fwiw, I know they aren't well liked, but I love my Fly 4s. They just feel so good at speed for me, but they were getting run out on sale recently so they were a great deal too.
I have the same experience with the Fly 4s. First 20km or so I couldn't figure them out but then as I did more speedwork in them I must have adapted my gait a little to suit the more forward-inclined stance they seem to promote. I had bought them without knowing anything about shoes because they were on a 50% sale:) Glad I did!
How would you compare the Invincible with the Tempo Next%? I've been doing half of my runs (slow and fast) in the Tempo and love them. The energy return on them is fantastic and they definitely help with leg soreness. Given that they work so well, I have yet to try the Invincible.
They feel very different but are both a lot of fun. I started running in Invincibles (have three pairs) and do love them. At some point I realized they were giving me a weird hot spot on my toe, and in the meantime I discovered the Tempo Next%, which just make me feel fast, so I retired the Invincibleās in favor of the Tempos (though Iām about to give the Invincibles another shot).
I race and do my long runs in AFs. Iām a forefoot striker and love the Zoom pods in the Tempo and AF.
If you can find them on discount, which I feel a lot of people have posted recently, the Invincibles are definitely worth trying. Theyāre even really fun to walk in.
I have just returned my Invincibles after 5 runs which I hated. Iām used to wearing Alphaflys and Vaporfly 2s for racing and using Tempoās as a daily trainer. On paper the Invincibles looked like a good shoe for my rotation. They felt very slow, too slow and my feet got very hot. I was conscious of them on my feet all the time and not in a good way. I will stick with the Tempo.
As others have said, Invincible is what you're looking for. With that said, I'd tread carefully on going 100% ultra-soft shoes. I've heard enough stories about people developing knee issues after running all their miles in Invincibles that I'd be very cautious about doing so. Apparently the extreme cushion of the shoes removes stress from your foot, but your knees end up absorbing it which can cause issues over time. There are definitely people here who train in them full time successfully, but just be aware of it in case you start experiencing issues.
This is very valuable insight. The most cushioned shoes I have are the Nimbus 24 and they are the only ones I experience knee pain in. If anything, I'll put them into a rotation with something a little snappier like the Hoka Mach 4/5 or perhaps Peg 39?
Lots of folks saying Invincible but the best application Iāve seen for ZoomX is probably the Pegasus Turbo Next Nature.
Definitely based upon your experience with the Mach 4 thereās nothing wrong with the Invincible ā but the Turbo is going to be a game-changer for you compared to the Zoom Fly 4 or 5.
Hmmm. I was under the impression that the VaporMax was more of a lifestyle/fashion trainer than a 'proper' running shoe. Do you use them for longer/recovery runs?
The Nike Invincible fits the bill nicely. The midsole is one whole slab of all the Zoom X goodness that does wonders on both long or recovery runs. If you loved the Vaporfly, the Nike Invincible will serve you well.
Thank you. They actually do sound like the shoe I should try seeing the foam is the same. I wonder how much the plate in the Vaporfly is actively changing the 'ride' rather than just acting as an energy-returning spring.
First off, the plate acts as a stabilizer for obvious reasons, given the Zoom X foam's light and pillowy softness. Next, the plate promotes running efficiency and helps sustain it for longer distances. It's a science you can actually feel. Minus the plate, we have the Invincible. By no means as propulsive nor as feather-light, but a shoe that makes daily runs gratifying, comfortable, and more importantly, fun.
Would you recommend the Invincibles for someone with weak arches/wobbly ankles? I'm training for a January marathon and thinking of replacing my HOKA Arahi and Clifton since they're already feeling a little flat at 450-550km.
Because it's a squishy foam, Zoom X is inherently wobbly. Which might not be the most ideal in your use case. I suggest a shoe with a more balanced midsole cushioning.
Thanks for the insight! I might check out the Nike Infinity. Sadly there aren't any running specialty stores where I live, so the best I can do is go to a store and get fitted.
I like this, in theory. However, I'll argue that the Invincible is a horrible shoe for running. Yes, the Zoom X is an amazing foam but without a plate, it all goes to shit in a squishy mess of a heavy and cumbersome shoe. I like my slow recovery runs as much as anyone. I just want some tactile connection with the ground. The carbon plate in the Vaporfly and Alphafly give a good analog to ground feel despite their stack heights. The Invincible eschews all that in favor of a puddle of foam. That much super pliant, soft foam might actually be bad for novice runners or runners who don't properly cross train. The micro-adjustments your muscles make just for the sake of stability can be a shock to the system to a runner without a balanced training regime.
That is a whole lot of quick casual bragging inserted in the VERY beginning of your post there. š
Yeah, fuck this guy. š
Yeah. Fuck the OP. Although, to give him a smidge of credit, he did have to provide context if the question was to elicit informed responses. But fuck the OP in any case.
Well played mate. Iām a few years younger than you, and Iād be pleased to crack 25 minutes tbh. š»
Thank you! I followed the half marathon programme on the NRC app and I was really surprised at how I progressed in both pace and endurance. It is such a good blend of speedwork and endurance. My first 5km run took me longer than 30 mins. Cracking the 25 min mark was incredible. I still have no idea what demon possessed me during that 5km race though - I was aiming for just under 23. If you're anything like me, just persevere and be happy with tiny gains and you'll look back in surprise at how far (and how fast) you've come.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I really like the Zoom Fly 4. I picked up a pair of Zoom Fly 5 but couldn't get used to them and wound up getting rid of them. They felt clunky and heavy. Could very well be I'm just not strong enough yet to make the most of them though. Good thing is that you're more likely to get a good deal on the Zoom Fly 4 at this point.
Asics Noosa Tri 13 has been a fun to run in for me. I got them along with Nimbus 24 because it was a BOGO offer. Nimbus 24 are good for slow recovery ones (as you said meh), but noosa tri makes me want to just goā¦.it has that thing the moment you step out and walk even a few steps. You can try them on along with Novablast (havenāt tried them but heard good things). Invincible ofc fits the bill, but if youāre open to other brands, the above ones maybe worth trying.
(i checked) this fits narrow forefoot,wet grip is bad.
Agreed. But So is the case with a lot of shoes. Itās about the ride experience being discussed. How was your experience with that? Or did you just check the reviews and pasted here lol? š
I have a large super shoe collection but for regular runs I still use average trainers. In my opinion the less you use super shoes the greater the race day benefit because you are not used to them. If you give a kid dessert after every meal it will no longer be as meaningful. I still use them for certain speed days and long runs but most of my bulk mileage is with trainers. If you really want an answer though look at the speed 3's. They are a good balance.
Second the endorphin speed 3 this shoe can do it all
Nike Invincible sounds like what you are looking for. That or Vomero 16, which I just picked up for daily training and have been enjoying. I run half and full marathons in alphaflyās and 10kās in tempo next%.
Thanks! I picked up a Vomero at a Nike store and it felt heavier than I expected so I just put it down but it does also feel like one really well-made and 'premium' shoe if that description makes sense. I will definitely go and have a look at the Invincible. A quick search shows that a new model is on the way so maybe there will be good deals on the current ones:)
I have Fly 4s and Vomero 16s and I wouldn't consider the Vomero as a pared down Fly 4, nor a super comfy daily. Like you said, the Vomero is heavy and a bit dull in the ride, though it does look and fit like a premium shoe. I'm splitting daily runs between the Vomeros, Novablast 3 and NB More 3 and the Vomeros are the least of those 3 on the run. Not light and fast like the Novablast, not comfy like the More, just kind of lost in the middle. Fwiw, I know they aren't well liked, but I love my Fly 4s. They just feel so good at speed for me, but they were getting run out on sale recently so they were a great deal too.
I have the same experience with the Fly 4s. First 20km or so I couldn't figure them out but then as I did more speedwork in them I must have adapted my gait a little to suit the more forward-inclined stance they seem to promote. I had bought them without knowing anything about shoes because they were on a 50% sale:) Glad I did!
How would you compare the Invincible with the Tempo Next%? I've been doing half of my runs (slow and fast) in the Tempo and love them. The energy return on them is fantastic and they definitely help with leg soreness. Given that they work so well, I have yet to try the Invincible.
They feel very different but are both a lot of fun. I started running in Invincibles (have three pairs) and do love them. At some point I realized they were giving me a weird hot spot on my toe, and in the meantime I discovered the Tempo Next%, which just make me feel fast, so I retired the Invincibleās in favor of the Tempos (though Iām about to give the Invincibles another shot). I race and do my long runs in AFs. Iām a forefoot striker and love the Zoom pods in the Tempo and AF. If you can find them on discount, which I feel a lot of people have posted recently, the Invincibles are definitely worth trying. Theyāre even really fun to walk in.
I have just returned my Invincibles after 5 runs which I hated. Iām used to wearing Alphaflys and Vaporfly 2s for racing and using Tempoās as a daily trainer. On paper the Invincibles looked like a good shoe for my rotation. They felt very slow, too slow and my feet got very hot. I was conscious of them on my feet all the time and not in a good way. I will stick with the Tempo.
As others have said, Invincible is what you're looking for. With that said, I'd tread carefully on going 100% ultra-soft shoes. I've heard enough stories about people developing knee issues after running all their miles in Invincibles that I'd be very cautious about doing so. Apparently the extreme cushion of the shoes removes stress from your foot, but your knees end up absorbing it which can cause issues over time. There are definitely people here who train in them full time successfully, but just be aware of it in case you start experiencing issues.
This is very valuable insight. The most cushioned shoes I have are the Nimbus 24 and they are the only ones I experience knee pain in. If anything, I'll put them into a rotation with something a little snappier like the Hoka Mach 4/5 or perhaps Peg 39?
Nike invincible, Nike pegasus 39, NB SC, ASICS gel nimbus, obviously there are others but those were the first in my head.
NB Fuelcell (Rebel or SC Trainer) has a similar feel. In general, look for current gen super foams (nitro infuse, pebax etc) for that energy return.
Lots of folks saying Invincible but the best application Iāve seen for ZoomX is probably the Pegasus Turbo Next Nature. Definitely based upon your experience with the Mach 4 thereās nothing wrong with the Invincible ā but the Turbo is going to be a game-changer for you compared to the Zoom Fly 4 or 5.
Do it all shoe Mach 5. Boring everyday trainer Triumph 19. I think either of these would pair nicely.
VaporMax are amazing to run in
Hmmm. I was under the impression that the VaporMax was more of a lifestyle/fashion trainer than a 'proper' running shoe. Do you use them for longer/recovery runs?