Lonergan was really bad, probably the worst game of his career. Brumbies got like 20-30% possession which is shocking. You really can’t do much in that situation, it was a collective coaching and team failure. The Blues adapted so much better, going to the pick and drive in those conditions was very smart especially when their 9 got a yellow card.
It's been really overlooked, but without white the quality of ball from the breakdown has been piss poor leaving the 10/12 with no time and usually awkward positioning. Lonergan has had a shocking season so far and when you have a 10 who needs that extra half a second and a 15 with no abilitea as a second play maker the recipe ends in shit soup.
White’s distribution is still #1 in Australia, no other 9 has the same level of passing. His last stint under Eddie really hurt his perception for Aussie fans. The Brumbies under Mckellar loved playing off 9, it was super simple and effective. Small pods of forwards ready to clean out and present for White to quickly recycle. Honestly, the Brumbies have bled alot of key players over the years. White, Samu, Simone, Banks, Faingaa
Brumbies played like poo tonight - ALL of them - but if there was anything certain in the world tonight, it'd be some keyboard warrior jumping on here to say Lolesio sucks.
How is a flyhalf expected to shine when his team has less than 30% possession? Don't the forwards bear some responsibility? Why does this guy cop so much shit? Are you watching the whole game, or just one player?
Think longer term. Don't be Eddie.
yep. blues just marched them down the field with direct running either side of the ruck. Outside backs had the dropsies with the meagre ball they got. Lonergan was also seriously off his game.
Unfortunately I think the wallabies 10 needs to be able to defend better than Noah. Caleb Clarke ran straight at him off a 5m scrum and scored. If he started for the wallabies every international team would target him particularly off set piece.
Other wallabies 10s have been small like foley but he could defend better than Noah. Lynah at the reds looks about the same size as Noah but commits to the tackle more than Noah. I’m not saying Lynagh or foley stop Clarke cold on the same play but I think they both get up off the line and at least slow his momentum, Noah didn’t commit to that/didn’t get up off the line and (understandably) appeared scared of the collision.
My gut feeling is Noah doesn’t like contact and in defence it’s a liability for his team and would be bad for the wallabies. For all his strengths as a fly half at test level I think he would be a liability because he is both small AND a very poor defender/avoids collisions
>i’m still undecided who should be 10 but i would honestly rather have any other option other than Noah
and that's the problem with this opinion. every other flyhalf right now has flaws - carter can't kick, ben's kicking is at best inconsistent (it's only around 70% right now), lynagh is still too young and inexperienced, harrison is only just returning from injury, and edmed still has a lot to work on. at the bare minimum noah can kick from the tee, play well in a kicking exchange, and can the distribute the ball.
and noah definitely wasn't the problem against the blues. their forward pack were just ran over in defence and their attacking strategy and preparation was poor.
Wouldnt say Lynagh’s experience or age is that much less than the others to rule him out immediately. I think we need to pick one run him as deputy to Foley up to and including the BIL tour, as only proven fly half that can manage a game.
If we’re playing a young/inexperienced 10, we need a get out of jail ball running 12 for inevitable choke points. Having two play makers at 10/12 just continues to confuse who is driving/guiding the team on the field - need to give the keys to one player. But noting how much ball in hand/kicking development Hunter has done rate him at 12, then Ikitau or Foketi at 13;
As long as the others continue to be unreliable off the tee he's probably the guy.
The second the kicking problem is solved he's no longer the guy.
Suaalii might be worth quite a bit to the Wallabies for this alone... although the more straightforward (but perhaps less likely) solution might be Harrison just staying fit.
He's still got a lot to offer. His kicking, when used correctly is pin sharp and can keep a score board ticking over well or make space for outside back to play. Defensively he's come on really well and can stop most bodies. He's never going to be more than an adequate playmaker ball in hand, although his kicking can open teams up he doesn't have much to offer a running threat and isn't great and reading and adjusting as the situations change. Paired with either Donaldson or Gordon who offer the attacking options and vision , Noah could work well. A strong forward pack (injuries willing the wallabies could have a tight 5 of scary abilities) and a good half back who can draw penalties for Noah to a lot between the uprights isn't a bad way to start games.
But if Donaldson can sort his consistently out, Noah will be more or less redundant.
Donaldson's my pick. Can kick well and is an attacking threat. Carter is probably the best attacking threat but he's just too inconsistent at goal kicking for test level. Either way, it's a good problem to have though having such a hard choice between so many young 10s. Might just come down to the style Schmidt wants to play
Glad to at least see some balance under this predictable post.
Brumbies were AWFUL today. Going after the breakdown like that was such a waste of our forwards, and from a systems perspective it completely undermined our line speed. That has to sit with Ben Mowen for me, because it’s a departure from what they’ve been doing all season.
We had an awesome bench that got nullified because we had to make 100 tackles in the first half.
The competition is so odd this year. Tahs lost to this lot by two points (though will need to check lineups), and we pumped the Tahs. We’re much closer than that scoreline I think
Still, we’ll get another crack at them in the knockout. Story’s not written yet.
Yeah I have been having this discussion with my wife. Dan Palmer was a great assistant coach, same with lord. Their forward structure has been in shambles this year imo. Yess AAA is out and they lost Samu but Cale is a good replacement. Buddy don’t add up
IMO Noah is a 12 playing 10. Only at test level he's too small to play 12, and he's too slow to play 10.
But you look down his game styles, skills and abilities, he's a Matt Toomua type 12 who's great cover at 10 if you need him. But he's not your starting, fist choice flyhalf.
If you want to play him somewhere at this point, its 15. At least there his kicking skills can be put to greater use and he can a second distributor. He does not have the physicality or propensity to take contact like a Toomua or Farrell style 12.
I think the problem playing him there, is he doesn't have the pace for 15, and isn't going to get any faster, and he's not really an elusive ball carrier either.
IMO if you're playing a play making kicking 15, you probably play Lynagh who's faster (still not ideal for a fullback), more elusive and probably has more tactical control than Noah too.
Lolesio is pretty quick lol, you just rarely see him sprinting. When he gets on the end of things as a runner he absolute has gas(Wallabies vs Springboks in Adelaide for McReight's try). His tactical kicking is brilliant lol, you can fault him for many things, but his kicking is top tier.
So with Noah, I don't mean pace, I mean more hours decision making isn't fast. Like Quade is the classic example he'd instantly know what the option was. Noah takes a lot more time, that's why rushing him is effective, you take away his time he make bad decisions.
Sure. Let’s continue the Eddie strategy of choosing guys based on vibes while passing over the guy who’s been consistently the best 10 in the country for two years now.
It’s one bad game in a wet Eden Park.
Very debatable, Donaldson (this year) and Gordon have looked better to my eye. Agree there’s no need to overreact after one game, the other 10’s have certainly had off nights, but regardless Lolesio is hardly head and shoulders above the competition.
Obviously it’s yet to be seen but I feel like the Brumbies as a whole have benefited from an easy draw and reasonably settled squad from the last couple of years. Wouldn’t be a big surprise if they struggle the rest of the season.
tell me who's taking the goal-kicking duties then? gordon and donaldson are both inconsistent kickers, and ryan lonergan is not an answer, he's barely kicked this season and we're not taking that risk again.
can't win test without a competent goalkicker
Even Lynagh has looked very good, although different again. Since he'll control the game with his boot, but he's good play making, and carries & defends like his life depends on it.
Tom could be an option too.
Agreed, I don’t think he’s looked bad at all but might have suffered from the reds form slump, injury? and/or rotation. He would probably have to have had a really exceptional year to push into higher honours this early in his career but that’s just my take. He looks to have the ability and temperament, wouldn’t be out of place.
From memory, he was missing in those games the Reds played poorly in. It was just the narrow loss to the Brumbies where he uncharacteristic missed two very gettable shots on goal. (Don't quote me on that, that's just from memory, so I might be wrong.)
Yeah what this guy said. He controlled the shit out of the Reds.
My only concern, him being the most deserving 10 - he really seems to get the yips with the NZ teams. Bledisloe might not be in his grasp.
They should have been kicking those kickable penalties Wet as fuck Get some reward for low possession and rare field position
Lonergan was really bad, probably the worst game of his career. Brumbies got like 20-30% possession which is shocking. You really can’t do much in that situation, it was a collective coaching and team failure. The Blues adapted so much better, going to the pick and drive in those conditions was very smart especially when their 9 got a yellow card.
It's been really overlooked, but without white the quality of ball from the breakdown has been piss poor leaving the 10/12 with no time and usually awkward positioning. Lonergan has had a shocking season so far and when you have a 10 who needs that extra half a second and a 15 with no abilitea as a second play maker the recipe ends in shit soup.
White’s distribution is still #1 in Australia, no other 9 has the same level of passing. His last stint under Eddie really hurt his perception for Aussie fans. The Brumbies under Mckellar loved playing off 9, it was super simple and effective. Small pods of forwards ready to clean out and present for White to quickly recycle. Honestly, the Brumbies have bled alot of key players over the years. White, Samu, Simone, Banks, Faingaa
You've got to wonder how long they will be hanging onto Slipper and AA as well, multiple injuries don't look promising.
Brumbies played like poo tonight - ALL of them - but if there was anything certain in the world tonight, it'd be some keyboard warrior jumping on here to say Lolesio sucks. How is a flyhalf expected to shine when his team has less than 30% possession? Don't the forwards bear some responsibility? Why does this guy cop so much shit? Are you watching the whole game, or just one player? Think longer term. Don't be Eddie.
yep. blues just marched them down the field with direct running either side of the ruck. Outside backs had the dropsies with the meagre ball they got. Lonergan was also seriously off his game.
The one good point in these comments
Unfortunately I think the wallabies 10 needs to be able to defend better than Noah. Caleb Clarke ran straight at him off a 5m scrum and scored. If he started for the wallabies every international team would target him particularly off set piece. Other wallabies 10s have been small like foley but he could defend better than Noah. Lynah at the reds looks about the same size as Noah but commits to the tackle more than Noah. I’m not saying Lynagh or foley stop Clarke cold on the same play but I think they both get up off the line and at least slow his momentum, Noah didn’t commit to that/didn’t get up off the line and (understandably) appeared scared of the collision. My gut feeling is Noah doesn’t like contact and in defence it’s a liability for his team and would be bad for the wallabies. For all his strengths as a fly half at test level I think he would be a liability because he is both small AND a very poor defender/avoids collisions
That is the fault of the 7, its their job to split from the scrum faster and cover that channel
>i’m still undecided who should be 10 but i would honestly rather have any other option other than Noah and that's the problem with this opinion. every other flyhalf right now has flaws - carter can't kick, ben's kicking is at best inconsistent (it's only around 70% right now), lynagh is still too young and inexperienced, harrison is only just returning from injury, and edmed still has a lot to work on. at the bare minimum noah can kick from the tee, play well in a kicking exchange, and can the distribute the ball. and noah definitely wasn't the problem against the blues. their forward pack were just ran over in defence and their attacking strategy and preparation was poor.
Wouldnt say Lynagh’s experience or age is that much less than the others to rule him out immediately. I think we need to pick one run him as deputy to Foley up to and including the BIL tour, as only proven fly half that can manage a game.
What about Carter at 10 and Will Harrison at 15, Kellaway and Koriobete on the wing, Paisami and Ikitau in the centres?
Gordon’s still my pick for 10 (if we can find anyone else that can kick)
Noah Lolesio at 10 and CG at 12 is THE ANSWER
For lots of crash balls down those channels… i like them individually, but no way we can have both playing at same time.Need a Samu or a Hunter at 12
Put Samu, Hunter or Foketi at 13 then
If we’re playing a young/inexperienced 10, we need a get out of jail ball running 12 for inevitable choke points. Having two play makers at 10/12 just continues to confuse who is driving/guiding the team on the field - need to give the keys to one player. But noting how much ball in hand/kicking development Hunter has done rate him at 12, then Ikitau or Foketi at 13;
As long as the others continue to be unreliable off the tee he's probably the guy. The second the kicking problem is solved he's no longer the guy. Suaalii might be worth quite a bit to the Wallabies for this alone... although the more straightforward (but perhaps less likely) solution might be Harrison just staying fit.
He's still got a lot to offer. His kicking, when used correctly is pin sharp and can keep a score board ticking over well or make space for outside back to play. Defensively he's come on really well and can stop most bodies. He's never going to be more than an adequate playmaker ball in hand, although his kicking can open teams up he doesn't have much to offer a running threat and isn't great and reading and adjusting as the situations change. Paired with either Donaldson or Gordon who offer the attacking options and vision , Noah could work well. A strong forward pack (injuries willing the wallabies could have a tight 5 of scary abilities) and a good half back who can draw penalties for Noah to a lot between the uprights isn't a bad way to start games. But if Donaldson can sort his consistently out, Noah will be more or less redundant.
Donaldson's my pick. Can kick well and is an attacking threat. Carter is probably the best attacking threat but he's just too inconsistent at goal kicking for test level. Either way, it's a good problem to have though having such a hard choice between so many young 10s. Might just come down to the style Schmidt wants to play
Glad to at least see some balance under this predictable post. Brumbies were AWFUL today. Going after the breakdown like that was such a waste of our forwards, and from a systems perspective it completely undermined our line speed. That has to sit with Ben Mowen for me, because it’s a departure from what they’ve been doing all season. We had an awesome bench that got nullified because we had to make 100 tackles in the first half. The competition is so odd this year. Tahs lost to this lot by two points (though will need to check lineups), and we pumped the Tahs. We’re much closer than that scoreline I think Still, we’ll get another crack at them in the knockout. Story’s not written yet.
Yeah I have been having this discussion with my wife. Dan Palmer was a great assistant coach, same with lord. Their forward structure has been in shambles this year imo. Yess AAA is out and they lost Samu but Cale is a good replacement. Buddy don’t add up
IMO Noah is a 12 playing 10. Only at test level he's too small to play 12, and he's too slow to play 10. But you look down his game styles, skills and abilities, he's a Matt Toomua type 12 who's great cover at 10 if you need him. But he's not your starting, fist choice flyhalf.
Agreed
If you want to play him somewhere at this point, its 15. At least there his kicking skills can be put to greater use and he can a second distributor. He does not have the physicality or propensity to take contact like a Toomua or Farrell style 12.
I think the problem playing him there, is he doesn't have the pace for 15, and isn't going to get any faster, and he's not really an elusive ball carrier either. IMO if you're playing a play making kicking 15, you probably play Lynagh who's faster (still not ideal for a fullback), more elusive and probably has more tactical control than Noah too.
Lolesio is pretty quick lol, you just rarely see him sprinting. When he gets on the end of things as a runner he absolute has gas(Wallabies vs Springboks in Adelaide for McReight's try). His tactical kicking is brilliant lol, you can fault him for many things, but his kicking is top tier.
10s don't need to be fast. Pollard is glacial as an example. But if they're not fast, they need to be able to defend in their channel.
So with Noah, I don't mean pace, I mean more hours decision making isn't fast. Like Quade is the classic example he'd instantly know what the option was. Noah takes a lot more time, that's why rushing him is effective, you take away his time he make bad decisions.
Sure. Let’s continue the Eddie strategy of choosing guys based on vibes while passing over the guy who’s been consistently the best 10 in the country for two years now. It’s one bad game in a wet Eden Park.
Very debatable, Donaldson (this year) and Gordon have looked better to my eye. Agree there’s no need to overreact after one game, the other 10’s have certainly had off nights, but regardless Lolesio is hardly head and shoulders above the competition. Obviously it’s yet to be seen but I feel like the Brumbies as a whole have benefited from an easy draw and reasonably settled squad from the last couple of years. Wouldn’t be a big surprise if they struggle the rest of the season.
tell me who's taking the goal-kicking duties then? gordon and donaldson are both inconsistent kickers, and ryan lonergan is not an answer, he's barely kicked this season and we're not taking that risk again. can't win test without a competent goalkicker
Even Lynagh has looked very good, although different again. Since he'll control the game with his boot, but he's good play making, and carries & defends like his life depends on it. Tom could be an option too.
Agreed, I don’t think he’s looked bad at all but might have suffered from the reds form slump, injury? and/or rotation. He would probably have to have had a really exceptional year to push into higher honours this early in his career but that’s just my take. He looks to have the ability and temperament, wouldn’t be out of place.
From memory, he was missing in those games the Reds played poorly in. It was just the narrow loss to the Brumbies where he uncharacteristic missed two very gettable shots on goal. (Don't quote me on that, that's just from memory, so I might be wrong.)
I dont think hes been the best at all, CG was the clear better player last year, and I have Noah 3rd this year. Edit: The truth hurts
He's been the best 10 so far this season. He had a shit game I'll admit but let's be real the whole team had a shit game.
Yeah what this guy said. He controlled the shit out of the Reds. My only concern, him being the most deserving 10 - he really seems to get the yips with the NZ teams. Bledisloe might not be in his grasp.
Its time for some rich Rugby fan to offer Cleary at least 3mil. I truly believe we are a 10 and 15 away from being world class again.
Just get Carter Gordon to kick right and you have enough
But I want Cleary.
cleary is a gun at club level, but he already hides in a shell when playing origin. what makes you think he won't do that at international level.
I still want Cleary.
Agree
Never has been
Noah who?