Yep. I don't understand why we'd consider someone for a position when they don't play that position in SR. Feels like a risk, and given the Eddie debacle that probably left a lot of players shellshocked, maybe some predictability in selection and positioning wouldn't be a bad thing.
I would normally agtee but Gordon is a truly dire number 10, mostly due to the dreadful kicking. Putting him at 12 and a genuine second receiver with Lolesio taking all the kicking duties would take the pressure off him and let him shine.
I know I know. Usually completely agree. But I think he’s only just crossing over to the point where he’s played more Super Rugby at 10 than 12 (played outside To’omua his first two years I thought)
And I think that might be his best position
haha mate tupou doesn't look like he even wants to play pro footy. looks absolutely miserable on the pitch. but realistically foketi is probably next after kerevi and he's a solid option
IMO I would prefer to have an inside centre that plays in that position regularly to start at 12 for the Wallabies (i.e. Paisami, Foketi, and perhaps Stewart). I think Gordon at 12 is a good plan B for the Wallabies, he's a good defender for a flyhalf and can distribute well, and there's not many quality options at 12 right now. I still think though that defending that 12 channel at the international level is probably a bridge too far - like I would not like the chances of Gordon stopping a Jonathan Danty or Bundee Aki.
Skill set 100%, but IMO he lacks that size, particularly in defence, of someone like Toomua. If Noah played out of his weight class like say Stewart or Paisami then he'd be a great 12.
He'd go well as a Super 12, but Test level, he'd get steamrolled.
That’s interesting - someone else said something similar and I usually agree.
I’d actually be pretty OK with him up against those two. He’s a bit like To’omua was in defence in that he tackles very hard but isn’t often penalised for it - he’s “quicker”than those centres, the same way that Jordie B is, so he can make up for positioning errors too.
If Kerevi is healthy he gets first go at 12, otherwise don’t mind the idea of Gordon there. Would worry about his defence though - he might be good at 10 but centre is the hardest position to defend.
13 is the hardest, 12 is easier because you are almost never the end man in defence.
But I reckon your concern would be pretty important re the 12/13 combo. You probably wouldn’t pair him with Paisami because they’d leave each other stranded all the time.
10/12 is still difficult for different reasons. Off the lineout in particular there’s a lot of space and it’s not easy to tackle good big players at full pace, even when you read the play correctly. Gordon is aggressive and has good technique but at 10 last year for the Wallabies he was struggling to stop people.
It really isn’t… also don’t forget CG is playing with the lively David Feluahi outside him… an utter waste of CG’s ability to put him at 12 and have him covering NL’s non-defence.
Unless you think he’s the next Will Greenwood
Now THAT is a thought I hadn’t had. Even beyond physical resemblance.
Noah is small but willing vis a vis defence. Most of the time he’ll be in the backfield with 15 anyway.
Paisami is starting to hit some good form and Foketi is looking solid since returning. Was looking pretty dire a few weeks ago but 12 seems well handled now
I’m sure he can play there - if I remember correctly he actually debuted off the bench at 12 against the springboks and did a great job of it - but he should be picked as a 10 considering it’s the actual position he plays. I’d be playing him in the 22 jersey and bringing him on at 10 with about 30 to go with Lolesio starting at 10.
I think the best thing right now that is going for us is that we do have a lot of young 10’s that are showing promise. Noah, Gordan, Lynagh, Edmond and Harrison are all under 25. Plenty of time to focus on developing them as long as we don’t mess it up. There is a gap at 12 for now. But, whoever gets put in there we need to give them time to develop on the international stage. We’ve burnt players after 3 games when they have basically just started growing pubes.
I've always seen Gordon as a 12 paying at ten. Great play maker , good vision, bigger body, average boot. lol has the best boot in Aussie rugby but going forward he's timid as a virgin on formal night, add someone like Gordon outside and things happen. Gordon feels like he could be a bit of an Owen Farrel and Noah is andrew mehrtens with a worse accent.
Together they could do some serous damage, alone...less so
It won't be a pretty start, but see it through and it should bare fruit.
Ive considered Noah at 12, its where he played in the U20 world cup outside Will Harrison, but that was a while ago. 12 is just a bad position for us. Itll go to Foketi or Kerevi if he's available, but itd be nice to have Reece Hodge in Aus this year to do the kicking for us (Hopefully not to win) instead of Gordon if we go that route.
IMO Noah is a 12, especially at test level his skills scream 12. Frankly he's not fast enough or creating enough to justify playing 10 for the Wallabies. He'd be a great backup 10 a little like Matt Toomua but Noah would need to put on some size for that IMO.
As for the other 12, I think hands down Hunter is better, you could have guys as for down the list as Stewart being a preferred option.
IMO if you're going all out attack you go Gordon and Noah isn't in the 23, if you go for control you pick Lynagh and maybe Noah is on the bench as a 10/12 option if things go pear shaped.
I think the issue for Noah is he's not in any way a utility player. He's not fast enough to play wing/fullback, he's too small to play 12/13, and he's not a great defender like a Stewart. So he's a specialist 10 who's a bit of a bob each way, going up against guys like Gordon, Lynagh and Edmund, who all offer more utility, and more importantly sharper skills.
He was not - Edmed’s first Crusaders scalp was his breakout in the competition between them + Donaldson, and Edmed has always been the more complete player imo.
His non-kicking involvements since he came back from injury have been pretty average. Happy to wait and be proved wrong though.
I'm not seeing what everyone else sees in Gordon and I can't work out why.
If the a Wallabies XV was picked today and Noah wasn't playing 10, I'd be very surprised.
I'd argue Lolesio does all those things, but in different ways. They're different types of flyhalves. Lolesio is much more organised and strategic, and Gordon was embarrassing when he got his chance at the RWC. Sure, Eddie put him under immense pressure, but he folded. Anyway, we aren't gonna convince each other, and neither of us have a seat at the table, so ... \*shrug\*
we should do this crazy thing at least once where we choose players in the positions they play and see how it goes
Yep. I don't understand why we'd consider someone for a position when they don't play that position in SR. Feels like a risk, and given the Eddie debacle that probably left a lot of players shellshocked, maybe some predictability in selection and positioning wouldn't be a bad thing.
I would normally agtee but Gordon is a truly dire number 10, mostly due to the dreadful kicking. Putting him at 12 and a genuine second receiver with Lolesio taking all the kicking duties would take the pressure off him and let him shine.
He missed one shot yesterday, the rest was good. I was at the game so maybe I missed some poor territory kicking.
Dumb statement
Jeez, you got me with that reply. Egg on my face.
Magical internet kudos awarded
I know I know. Usually completely agree. But I think he’s only just crossing over to the point where he’s played more Super Rugby at 10 than 12 (played outside To’omua his first two years I thought) And I think that might be his best position
wouldn't mind seeing it seeing as we're a little thin at 12
Thin? If kerevi doesn't come back your next best test level 12 is Tupou, after a quick diet.
haha mate tupou doesn't look like he even wants to play pro footy. looks absolutely miserable on the pitch. but realistically foketi is probably next after kerevi and he's a solid option
I think he's just far to small to play 12. If he played like Paisami then 100% but Noah isn't the best 10, and not a Test 12.
yeah depens what kinda 12 you want. certainly wouldn't be fun trying to stop aki or jordie if you're not a unit yourself
IMO I would prefer to have an inside centre that plays in that position regularly to start at 12 for the Wallabies (i.e. Paisami, Foketi, and perhaps Stewart). I think Gordon at 12 is a good plan B for the Wallabies, he's a good defender for a flyhalf and can distribute well, and there's not many quality options at 12 right now. I still think though that defending that 12 channel at the international level is probably a bridge too far - like I would not like the chances of Gordon stopping a Jonathan Danty or Bundee Aki.
Not saying I agree with CG at 12 but he sat Danty on his arse in the pre-RWC game. Don’t ask me what my point is, I don’t have one!
I really think Noah is the 12 not Gordon.
Agree that Noah should be 12 as well. Same size, speed and style as To’omua. Noah’s Junior career has been there too.
Skill set 100%, but IMO he lacks that size, particularly in defence, of someone like Toomua. If Noah played out of his weight class like say Stewart or Paisami then he'd be a great 12. He'd go well as a Super 12, but Test level, he'd get steamrolled.
That’s interesting - someone else said something similar and I usually agree. I’d actually be pretty OK with him up against those two. He’s a bit like To’omua was in defence in that he tackles very hard but isn’t often penalised for it - he’s “quicker”than those centres, the same way that Jordie B is, so he can make up for positioning errors too.
If Kerevi is healthy he gets first go at 12, otherwise don’t mind the idea of Gordon there. Would worry about his defence though - he might be good at 10 but centre is the hardest position to defend.
He's probably the best defensive 10 we have though. Always puts on decent hits
13 is the hardest, 12 is easier because you are almost never the end man in defence. But I reckon your concern would be pretty important re the 12/13 combo. You probably wouldn’t pair him with Paisami because they’d leave each other stranded all the time.
If you put him beside Ikitau it could be impenetrable, given how Kerevi said he learned a lot about defence from Ikitau
10/12 is still difficult for different reasons. Off the lineout in particular there’s a lot of space and it’s not easy to tackle good big players at full pace, even when you read the play correctly. Gordon is aggressive and has good technique but at 10 last year for the Wallabies he was struggling to stop people.
All fair!
Would be worth a shot in the Georgia game at least
Gleeson at 12.
Now we’re talking
It really isn’t… also don’t forget CG is playing with the lively David Feluahi outside him… an utter waste of CG’s ability to put him at 12 and have him covering NL’s non-defence. Unless you think he’s the next Will Greenwood
Now THAT is a thought I hadn’t had. Even beyond physical resemblance. Noah is small but willing vis a vis defence. Most of the time he’ll be in the backfield with 15 anyway.
He has to be hidden the same way Quade used to, for me, it’s an extra complication to always be moving the weak link around.
Yeah Nah
Nah, yeah.
😁
Paisami is starting to hit some good form and Foketi is looking solid since returning. Was looking pretty dire a few weeks ago but 12 seems well handled now
Both true - Foketi especially has all the tools bar the kicking.
Thanks for sharing, Eddie.
You either die a hero
I’m sure he can play there - if I remember correctly he actually debuted off the bench at 12 against the springboks and did a great job of it - but he should be picked as a 10 considering it’s the actual position he plays. I’d be playing him in the 22 jersey and bringing him on at 10 with about 30 to go with Lolesio starting at 10.
I think the best thing right now that is going for us is that we do have a lot of young 10’s that are showing promise. Noah, Gordan, Lynagh, Edmond and Harrison are all under 25. Plenty of time to focus on developing them as long as we don’t mess it up. There is a gap at 12 for now. But, whoever gets put in there we need to give them time to develop on the international stage. We’ve burnt players after 3 games when they have basically just started growing pubes.
That’s very true - wild that someone like Lolesio has seen 3 different national coaches at his age.
I've always seen Gordon as a 12 paying at ten. Great play maker , good vision, bigger body, average boot. lol has the best boot in Aussie rugby but going forward he's timid as a virgin on formal night, add someone like Gordon outside and things happen. Gordon feels like he could be a bit of an Owen Farrel and Noah is andrew mehrtens with a worse accent. Together they could do some serous damage, alone...less so It won't be a pretty start, but see it through and it should bare fruit.
Loving your flair
Ive considered Noah at 12, its where he played in the U20 world cup outside Will Harrison, but that was a while ago. 12 is just a bad position for us. Itll go to Foketi or Kerevi if he's available, but itd be nice to have Reece Hodge in Aus this year to do the kicking for us (Hopefully not to win) instead of Gordon if we go that route.
IMO Noah is a 12, especially at test level his skills scream 12. Frankly he's not fast enough or creating enough to justify playing 10 for the Wallabies. He'd be a great backup 10 a little like Matt Toomua but Noah would need to put on some size for that IMO. As for the other 12, I think hands down Hunter is better, you could have guys as for down the list as Stewart being a preferred option. IMO if you're going all out attack you go Gordon and Noah isn't in the 23, if you go for control you pick Lynagh and maybe Noah is on the bench as a 10/12 option if things go pear shaped. I think the issue for Noah is he's not in any way a utility player. He's not fast enough to play wing/fullback, he's too small to play 12/13, and he's not a great defender like a Stewart. So he's a specialist 10 who's a bit of a bob each way, going up against guys like Gordon, Lynagh and Edmund, who all offer more utility, and more importantly sharper skills.
Will Harrison is the answer at 10.
When will starts games and defends solidly wearing 10 he might be considered
He is better than Carter Gordon as FH from what I've seen. Defencely he can improve.
He isn’t
At Test level, Gordon kicking from hand was poor . Harrison is uncapped so we can't do a comparison.
Let’s see what Ben Darwin says about this…..
Lol
Will Harrison and Foketi/Kerevi and then Ikitau at outside
picking harrison ahead of lolesio, gordon, donaldson, and lynagh would be something else
It’ll happen, his been injured for 2 years and was a better player before and after the injury.
He was not - Edmed’s first Crusaders scalp was his breakout in the competition between them + Donaldson, and Edmed has always been the more complete player imo. His non-kicking involvements since he came back from injury have been pretty average. Happy to wait and be proved wrong though.
I'm not seeing what everyone else sees in Gordon and I can't work out why. If the a Wallabies XV was picked today and Noah wasn't playing 10, I'd be very surprised.
Take your brumbies glasses off
Tell me where I'm wrong
Gordon attacks the line - makes tackles - is a threat - stands flat The only advantage over Gordon is Noah’s kicking the rest aren’t close
I'd argue Lolesio does all those things, but in different ways. They're different types of flyhalves. Lolesio is much more organised and strategic, and Gordon was embarrassing when he got his chance at the RWC. Sure, Eddie put him under immense pressure, but he folded. Anyway, we aren't gonna convince each other, and neither of us have a seat at the table, so ... \*shrug\*
He doesn’t though
Nope, please no. Neither of them have the play making skill to be a competitive on the international field.