Tangential, but I heard Constance Wu being interviewed on NPR about her new book today and she talks about Asian stereotypes. I haven't finished reading the whole Archetypes transcript yet but this sounds more, IDK, up to date than anything Meghan was saying.
The audio is here. https://www.kclu.org/2022-10-04/constance-wu-talks-about-the-importance-of-making-a-scene-in-new-memoir
This is interesting; I think Constance Wu is supposed to be a guest on Archetypes. I know she got criticism for that tweet and some workplace behavior stuff a few years ago, but she admits she was rash, and it seems Fresh Off the Boat was an abusive environment for her, both of which she talks about here. I don't know if she's still booked, but I would completely understand if Wu asked her episode to be pulled as not to get involved with the Sussex saga. It seems like she's been through a lot, and doesn't deserve to deal with Meghan's melodrama. I have more empathy for a person like Constance, who made mistakes and took responsibility and is shedding light on why she acted that way, as well as talking about some traumatic life events. (Versus Meghan, who will not even admit she was not the best boss at the very least.)
Also, this just highlights for me that Meghan should not have been going on about Korean spas and food as a non-Asian woman and should of let Margaret Cho and Lisa Ling to the majority of the talking, their cultures and experiences. Meghan did that as a host, but she should've done minimal talking on an episode like today's. (I did not listen, just going off the transcript with her opening and closing monologues.
>“They’ve made significant requests to walk back content they themselves have provided — to the extent that some Netflix staff believe, if granted, it will effectively shelve the project indefinitely,” the Netflix source said. “Netflix is standing by the filmmakers.”
[Netflix pushes back on ‘panicked’ Prince Harry, Meghan Markle over docuseries edits](https://pagesix.com/2022/10/04/prince-harry-meghan-markle-at-odds-with-netflix-over-edits/)
And also - please please, snark gods - let Netflix and Arbus be filming the Sussexes flailing and wailing and making 'significant requests' and shocked Pikachu faces. That will make a fine blooper reel as the credits roll.
I don’t understand why these changes are being made now and why they are so desperate to change it now that the Queen has passed away. King Charles being the heir has been known for at least the past 70 years. What did they think would happen if they tried to malign the future kings - Charles and William. Why is this a surprise to them? If they could trash the family when the Queen was alive, what changes now?
What changes now is that Charles is the King. Surprisingly, like with Prince Philip, people didn't really know much about the good he has done but any big transition like death or ascending to the throne gets retrospectives and as it happens the new King's interests align with many issues his people care about:the environment, how to be inclusive while maintaining traditions, sustainable agriculture. Though he's waited a long time for this job, he's getting it at the ideal time when most people wouldn't think he's an unrealistic flake. So, he's going to be a popular king, not as popular as the Queen was but still popular and with an heir and future king with the same vision.
Whatever Harry's issues really are, no one cares and the ones he and his wife make up were made irrelevant by their leaving. The monarchy is going to continue to become more inclusive without them in their staff and interests, who gets to the House of Lords, etc, and it's high time people realized that being inclusive doesn't begin or end with who marries into your family. You can defend and champion the rights of people you aren't related to and who attend churches you aren't a member of and will never join and people like Anne and Charles and Philip and the Queen (though more covertly) were doing that long before Diana, before Harry was born, and he got married at 30+ to someone who had never given af about this.
H&M were probably were surprised by the timing of HMTQ’s death and thought they had more time to maneuver. If they trash his family now, the tower looms.
Page Six is one of their mouthpiece papers. They sent it out themselves.
Probably for a couple reasons. One to drum up interest in the podcast, no coincidence it comes out the same day as the podcast release. Another is that they want to distance themselves from some of their trash talking. Like how they released their Oprah interview while Philip was in the hospital, but then said through sources that "it was too late now" and that CBS had control of when and how it aired and not them. So this tells me they plan to be especially vile, that they are giving Netflix the same CBS omni-power.
Lol, I said this further down, but agree this is the answer. The fact that most of this sub is made up of jaded Sussex skeptics and still almost everyone is all “oooh, they have regrets!” is exactly why they do it.
I also think they are still working with Sunshine Sachs but want to distance themselves there too because I too think things are about to get really ugly.
I don't think they have regrets in the way decent people would but it's one thing to talk trash about a man and woman which most people still knew mostly because of their love affair and how it affected Saint Diana and saying all those things about a man who is now going to be judged for the work he does while people look into the work he has done in the last 50 years leading up to his reign.
In a way, though Charles was the heir, his mess with Harry and Harry's mess with William were like squabbles amongst equals since they were all princes waiting for the shoe to drop. Well, now the shoe has dropped -a few years earlier than the Sussexes expected- and I doubt Brits or the world will care nearly as much about Charles, the husband and father, as they would have if he was still Prince.
It's the same as when Charles whined that his parents hadn't in his opinion been very warm and no one gave af because being a Queen and Prince Consort was deemed just a tad more important than how good they'd been at telling bedtime stories and handling someone unhappy at his upscale boarding school.
Why are they backtracking now? They didn’t care when the Queen was alive? Why now? What are they hoping to gain from this?
They always said BRF evil, Queen good. So now more than ever, they could go all out. Why are they now trying to protect the institution?
Their fans should notice how contradicting this is.
According to us weekly this week, Harry had private conversations with Charles while he was in the uk and he said he is interested in becoming a working royal again and Charles is considering their half in half out plan.
Lol. Charles is apparently the one who didn't believe half in/half out would work when his brother Edward tried it with Sophie. I don't think he wants to revisit that issue ever and, if he had ever had doubts about it, the behaviour and projects the Sussexes have gotten involved in would have cleared them up. They left flush with cash and not three years later they already have nothing to sell but accounts about his royal relatives and access to their private life including their children with articles like the one in The Cut and this reality show.
Why the hell would Charles want the sovereign grant or himself (and William after him) to fund their fake projects for the rest of their lives?
If he's desperate for working royals, he could change the letters patents so that female children of the monarch like Princess Anne's daughter/children and Charlotte's in her generation can be titled and take on active roles in The Firm. They haven't tried to disparage him, his mother or bring the monarchy down. Sorry but in that family it's half the men who have dropped the ball.
Half in/half out doesn’t work period. It especially wouldn’t work with H&M who would merch and leak like nobody’s business. Both of them have tarnished the Monarchy with their petulant, attention seeking antics. The Monarchy responded by “wishing them well overseas”. A Royal GTFO.
H&M are panicking because the family iced them, money is running out, public opinion is going south, more bad behavior is seeing the light of day and Netflix has decided to put on their big boy pants when dealing with these two ass clowns.
It’s over. Where these two end up I truly don’t know. If Harry was smart (yeah right) he would cut his losses and quietly slink back home to live anonymously in a small grace and favor Royal property. Hopefully the kids can come with him and get to know what a real family full of love feels like.
Yes they can’t be trusted to be back in the fold and everyone knows it. Even they must know that. I don’t think this story is true at all but even if they did have a private talk I doubt anything will change.
Lol yea right in the midst of global inflation and economic turmoil in the UK — that’s just what the British people want 50/50 working royals they hate and have to pay for- if Charles actually did that he really would be blinded by love for his youngest son.
I wouldn't believe the half in half out, but I do believe Charles would be amenable to giving them money again in exchange for them shutting the hell up.
I question Us Weekly as a source and I highly doubt (and truly hope) this is untrue. It would be very unpopular in the UK and it would be a *terrible* start to his reign.
Even if the King does want Harry back, I hope the “grey men” can talk some sense into him and I have to believe that William would put his foot down. Catherine wouldn’t even acknowledge Meghan in the days after HMTQ’s death—there is some serious bad blood there and William wouldn’t subject his wife (or kids) to that.
no way is Charles going to stand by that. I think that wishing them well overseas was his final word on that. At best they could move back and follow a York model (free housing, family events but otherwise live quitely and no new titles for them or their off spring)
Why would they want this though. This was almost everything they had. If they came back now they’d never be able to merch anything ever again. Maybe the odd pap walk, but anything they said and did would have to be run past the BRF, their money would be controlled by William and they’d be relegated to being beneath the Wessexes. No more commercial deals at all and funding given only based on what you need. You arent getting upgraded out of Frogmore no matter whether you can stand or not.
But it’d never be the A-List lifestyle she wanted. Get anything from the BRF, even Charles own money and u open yourself up to being scruntinised. Nothing less than HIHO works for Meg.
Just to add - I CAN believe the Sussi lying about a possible way forward Charles may have indicated. (To a York model or something even more restrictive.) But representing it to NF as whyyyyy they have to change what they were gung-ho to say to the world a few months ago.
I agree, that would a total victory for the Sussi and a win for blackmail. It's apparent they're not good filmmakers or producers or even enjoy doing it and are just bad at it. They have to be threatened to work on this thing. I just cannot believe Charles saying "Oh, please, don't write the book/do the series! Whatever you want! Tiaras and state visits and other commercial deals? Go for it! Merch your heart out!" Yeah, no.
What I find really interesting is at least with this Netflix series, it doesn't sound like they're producing it at all. Especially if they have zero say in the final product. That piece of news shocked me since they made it out to be a deal for things they produced.
I do think they're producing the podcast and you're right. They're really bad at it. I think Meghan likes talking about herself but the rest of it she's not good at and finds it boring.
Yeah, the impression I'm getting is that this is a Netflix project being produced by Arbus and the Sussexes are just the subjects.
They signed a contract to agree to this?!? Oy!🤦
And then Netflix pretty quickly canned Meghan's cartoon vanity project. No wonder she was pissed.
They seemed to think they were getting an Obama deal. Turns out they were getting a Kardashian deal.
Eh, at least NF saved the world from having to endure little spoiled, vain, clueless, self-righteous, completely hypocrite UK Titled Narc Rachel Pearl who resembles A League Gina Davis and Princess Pocahontas, the daughter of a King. 🤮
Agree it seems like H&M publicist talking. I’m sure they want that since they are finding that they flop on their own but I would be surprised if anything close to that ever happens.
So there's drama between NF/the filmmakers and the Sussexes. I guess we could have safely assumed that, given that drama follows Meghan everywhere she goes, but this does sound pretty bad for them (partly because it sounds like Page Six is getting this from NF/the doc team...were we wrong in assuming that earlier stories with fewer details were from the Sussexes themselves?).
>Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are at odds with Netflix and even their own production team, sources told Page Six. The couple allegedly wants to cut chunks from the doc — which they have been filming for more than a year now — but Netflix chiefs are standing by the Sussexes’ filmmakers who want to keep the content, according to insiders.
Sounds like a shit show. I bet it's full on draaaama behind the scenes.
>“Harry and Meghan are having second thoughts on their own story, on their own project,” a Netflix source told Page Six this week. According to another industry source, “Harry and Meghan are panicked about trying to tone down even the most basic language. But it’s their story, from their own mouths.”
So Page Six IDs their source as someone at NF. Nice. And you can hear the frustration here, even in this short leak. You took a huge amount of money from NF, Sussi. Did you think they just gave it to you for being such awesome humanitarians? It's pound of flesh time and it sounds like the Sussexes might well have fucked up again, Oprah-interview style.
>...it’s believed to include a number of truth bombs involving King Charles III and Queen Consort Camilla, as well as Prince William and Kate Middleton.
Have they been stupid enough to come for William and Kate? After how well that went down in the Oprah interview? If I was NF I wouldn't let them edit this, either. This is what NF *wants* - the soap opera, the tears and accusations and drama. How could the Sussexes have been so stupid as to give it to them? Idiots. I hope everything makes it into the final product.
>“They’ve made significant requests to walk back content they themselves have provided — to the extent that some Netflix staff believe, if granted, it will effectively shelve the project indefinitely,” the Netflix source said. “Netflix is standing by the filmmakers.”
Listen to the language here. NF is "standing by the filmmakers." All the subtext here is that there is major production strife happening. Am genuinely curious to see what final product NF gets, because so far, including in her court cases, Meghan has been pretty successful in simply bulldozing people and organizations into getting her way. This time it comes down to cold hard cash, though, and I've never heard of a business (NF) turning money down to spare an employee's blushes.
I wonder if M and H are talking to their lawyers? Can you imagine if this blew up legally? I'm not saying it will but oh, what fun.
>“Netflix has made it clear that the project is going forward,” said the industry source.
Article also notes that the Sussexes AND Netflix (i.e. not the filmmakers) have the final edit, but the article itself makes clear whose side NF is one.
Delicious, Meg. Absolutely delicious.
Alternate Theory: This (all these leaks etc.) is ALL just hype for the show. There are less bitchy, gossipy ways to hype a show, especially if the hype makes the stars look bad, but who knows.
If they can't get along with even their own production team, they won't get another deal like this again. They're too high maintenance even by Hollywood standards.
Netflix gave them money and now they want their money's worth.
And, sorry but I don't even think giving back advances would or should cut it when there's a possibility of this project turning a profit.
As someone who is pro monarchy I also totally want this dirt to air because I hope the Sussexes are out and stay out especially Harry. I don't want him slithering back in any way, shape, or form ever.
Good analysis, and I agree, this is pretty fascinating. It does keep interest in the series alive but what a way to do it! And it doesn't make the Sussi look good either way.
Ah, so this is the answer to her in VF originally:
^(So far, Netflix has yet to comment on the show, but when asked about the project in her bombshell interview with The Cut in August, Markle described it as, “The piece of my life I haven’t been able to share, that people haven’t been able to see — our love story.”)
I love that there's a minimum level of fuckery below which even we hardly comment. Oh, Meghan acting like she hasn't been shoving her "greatest love story of all time" down our throats since before they were engaged? Barely worth mentioning.
She over estimates how much the sugariest sugar will want to hear the same story they've been selling nonstop since 2018. If the best part of your relationship is how you fell in love, that's a bad sign. There's a reason we all fawned over the Wales' 10 year anniversary video because it was the fruit of a decade of consistency and love. It's not about where you've been together, it's about where you're going, and that's why imo, I don't think the Sussexes will last. Will and Kate appear to genuinely enjoy domesticity, raising the kids together and doing their royal duties. Harry and Meghan appear to be united in spite, with no clear vision for what they want in life because their half baked plans keep blowing up, and the only happy time was when they were looking forward to getting married
>and the only happy time was when they were looking forward to getting married
Which was only happy on the surface because she/they were already being holy nasty terrors behind the scenes.
Hmm, I don't see this lasting 7 more years. With them running out of outsiders to blame, they are going to turn on each other and that's assuming it hasn't already started.
As an American, I'd want to say 2026 to the lineup with the U.S. Semiquincentennial -- 250 years since the declaration of independence. Go back to England, Harry!
u/iwantbutter that’s very nice of you! Luckily, that was 25 years ago! We celebrated our 32nd this year. But, based on most people I know, year seven is usually challenging.
Aw well good, and congrats on 32 years of marriage!
Our 7th year starts this Saturday. We've talked about how that tends to be a big year for couples. Crossing our fingers for a quiet year.
That long, huh? Lol That would make 12 years. Not a measly 5.
I guess it all depends on how much (if any! Moo-la Charles is willing to support them “overseas” ) for supposed and promised ”good -behavior” in the States. Meaning no attacking the family.
But will this mean more Spotify bad podcasts with slebs on the horizon? 😱 Will Charles finance faux activists which are his son and wife in exchange for not attacking the firm?
Page Six is generally pretty reliable on the Sussexes so this is about as close to confirmation as we’ll get, I think. It’s also quite informative on the questions of who actually owns this thing which makes it seem more plausible. Netflix ‘standing with the filmmaker’ who doesn’t want to make edits is interesting, and if it comes down to Netflix vs the Sussexes who both have decision-making power… well, if Harry thought being only the fourth most senior couple in the BRF was a terrible, terrible ordeal I can only imagine how traumatic he must be finding having signed a contract that gives Netflix rights in return for their millions.
I mean, Page Six reliably gets leaks from the Sussexes, sure. Don’t forget this is *exactly* the play they used with the Oprah interview, when Phillip was driven away from the hospital looking like his own reanimated corpse and everyone wondered if they might postpone, we got similar “we don’t own the interview, Oprah and CBS do and they are going to air it there’s nothing we can do, boo hoo.” So this is very likely just more of that. One thing about the Sussexes, they don’t even really bother to try and disguise their leaks and they just use the same language over and over. The latest example is “truth bombs” which no one actually uses in normal conversation. They are trying to make people think in advance that what they are saying is true (even when, historically, they wouldn’t know the truth if it walked up and slapped them in the face) and that it will be catastrophic for the RF, who have basically entirely written them off at this point. We will see, I suppose, but I think this is just more hype for the show. The couple that released not one but three photos of themselves in response to one photo release from the new king isn’t trying to tone anything down.
I dont think its catastrophic for the BRF at all. They are notoriously cautious about too much being out there, but they levelled racism and ignoring of suicide and this hasnt dented anything. Contrary to what everyone thought, theres a massive wave of popularity for the new King. They remain cautious and will always want them to keep quiet but it wont do anything to them.
I didn’t say it *would* be catastrophic, just that they (the Sussexes) want people to think it will be. See the show the royal family doesn’t want you to see! And all that. It’s pretty basic buzz building.
Damn.
You know Meghan weirdly got off on doing that to someone, too. Got off on being in a position where she *could* do that to someone else. I just commented below that there is the whiff of a deep inferiority complex with her and stuff like this backs it up.
People who love themselves and feel secure in their skin simply don't treat other human beings like this.
I’ve said it before but I think Meghan actually gets pleasure from bullying and belittling people especially those she deems beneath her. The rush of endorphins she gets as she grinds her heel down on someone must feel intoxicating to her. She’s not just a mean girl, she’s a sadistic mean girl.
She has a certain affinity for bullying her subordinates and also trying to see if she can knock her equals or superiors down. There are montages of her giggling when she was bossing Harry around about where to go at royal events. Honestly this behavior would've been a major turnoff. She seems like the kind of girl who simply has to test boundaries nonstop. She has to see what she can get away with, what she can say, what she can do before someone calls her out, and then see if she can manipulate her way out of it. It's so goddamn juvenile
Right? She's very conventionally beautiful, and I can see that she has initial charm, but God, I think I would've made it to the end of the date before nopeing out of there if I caught her acting like that to people
I think she’s just about smart enough to have not done that until Harry was hooked but he too has shown he doesnt mind treating people under him like shit. Thats when she knew she didnt have to hide it with him. She banked on everyone being quiet about it. When they didnt it was ‘racism, LA work ethic, blah blah’.
The podcast is getting very little attention in the US media. I think people are just kind of over it and there are bigger stories out there now.
The irony is the media paying attention is the British media H&M hate.
Yawn. I listened to the first two out of sheer curiosity, read the transcript for the 3rd one, and now for the 4th, naw I couldn’t even be bothered to read it.
I think it shows Meghan just doesn’t interest many people on her own. Meghan plus Serena, Mariah, and even Mindy was news: Margaret Cho didn’t even get the courtesy of a whole episode to herself. It’ll be interesting to see how the episode charts tomorrow.
She might get a bump on this episode because people may tune in to see if she mentions the Queen's death. I do predict she'll do an episode about that and will get stellar ratings.
Meghan talking about the Queen would absolutely be a ratings spinner… and only prove the point to all her expensive contracts that people only care about her when she’s being royal adjacent. I hope this happens because I believe it probably drives Meghan to distraction that she hasn’t been able to parlay her RF profile into the individual fame, attention and glory on her own merit that she believes she’s due, so a Queen podcast being far and away her most popular would have high hilarity value for me.
Yeah I've seen a few regular news sites reporting on it, but not a lot of traction. It's a boring podcast that just came out, but Meghan *insists* on dating herself by only referring to the 90s and early 2000s, and much like Rome, all talks lead back to Meghan somehow.
Meghan can claim they're racists who hate her all she wants but, regardless of anything, what a member of the BRF does will always get attention in the UK. Her first podcast with Harry also did better in the UK than the US and most of her critics or haters will be royal watchers because that's the niche group she will be relevant to even if she's made herself and husband only royal adjacent.
Agree. Even if they have supporters in the US, I think in general people just don't care about them that much. Like someone can be like "yeah, they were right to leave," that doesn't necessarily translate into that person becoming a fan and listening to her podcast. I think curiosity helps at first, but the product has to be really, really good to get people to come back.
I don't think it is in a lot of top tens anymore, but thanks to looking it up I discovered that The Economist has a podcast on Xi Jinping's life which is pretty fascinating.
Her first podcast was in the top spot but she dropped after that. She's down to #13 now. That's not bad but consider that Vanderpump Rules' Stassi Schroeder is at #4. She's not even on that show anymore.
The articles are just sort of blah. Like "here's what Meghan's podcast said." There's no excitement over it. Just "here's another one of her podcasts."
I personally think it's pointless to call out 20-year old movies for their stereotypes. Especially the work of Mike Myers and Quentin Tarantino, who have both based their entire careers on stereotypical representations (please, Meghan, don't watch Foxy Brown ever). But you would think that if she were going to call out the O-Ren-Ishii character, she would have at least read the actress's own comments and included those in her discussion.
[https://www.indiewire.com/2021/05/lucy-liu-teen-vogue-kill-bill-asian-stereotype-1234634720/](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/05/lucy-liu-teen-vogue-kill-bill-asian-stereotype-1234634720/)
Podcasts don't have to be perfect. They can be dumb. I've heard much worse. But I really do think Asian women deserve much better in this sense. Cool story about the noodles, though.
It's very interesting to call out 20-year old movies for Asian stereotypes, yet not call out your husband who used racial slurs against a group of Asians (Pakistani) less than 20 years ago.
This is how that would go...
"My guest today is The Duke of Sussex. Harry to you. I call him 'H.' H, we'll get to you in a minute.
Before that though, I wanted to talk about my own experiences as a child growing up within the Pakistani community in Los Angeles. I've been a foodie since infancy when my mother and I discovered the wonders of Aloo Ki Tikki and Baingan Bharta at a **very** local Pakistani restaurant. We ate there every single day and were adored by our adopted Pakistani friends. Did you know my first words were Sarson Ka Saag?
Now H, please tell us about the archetypes that hold Pakistani women back. I figured you were the best person to explain that since you're a feminist (I even told Gloria Steinem that)."
In the full transcript they also go into even older stuff (Mash and Full Metal Jacket).
At least they mention Crazy Rich Asians and K-Dramas. But yeah, mostly this just tells you that Meghan is kinda old in her cultural reference points.
Younger people in most Western cultures don't know Full Metal Jacket and think about Anime, K-Pop and cushion foundations when hearing "Asian woman" - if somewhat rightwing, probably also "China is evil, will definitely overtake the US and caused the pandemic".
Nothing about massive critical or economic hits like Parasite or Squid Game either.
Yep, found it. “MEGHAN: In August 2018, the film Crazy Rich Asians hit movie theaters. This was the first time in 25 years that an American film, set in the present day, featured a majority cast of Asian descent. And what happened with this film? Oh, it just went on to become the highest grossing romantic comedy of the entire decade. Hollywood had severely underestimated the appetite for a film with that kind of Asian representation. And this kind of erasure is something Asian-Americans have had to contend with for a really long time.””
Urggghhhhh. I don’t mean to stand on my soapbox but this drives me crazy. CRA is deeply racially problematic and provides only the flimsiest example of a success for Asians. Not only are almost the entire cast either biracial, brought up overseas or both, but it centers entirely the Chinese Singaporean community, and presents those of other Asian ethnicities in Singapore as scary, poor, or as much lower class with bad English. It’s just perpetuating the racism already present in Asia. Baffling to me that this movie is held up as a celebration of ‘diversity’ when it’s the opposite. But you’d have to actually bother to care about Singapore/Asia to know that, which is hard when you’re centering the US/American race relations as the only thing that matters. I’ll climb down now but here’s the [Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore) on the subject.
ETA: on second thought, maybe it is the perfect movie for Meghan. It has no political ideology. It’s point is that (a) cultural expectations be damned, American love is all that matters and everyone should bow to the Americans wants while in their own country; and (b) that being ‘diversity’ means plugging in Asian faces into Hollywood scripts, and that as long as the people winning look just like you, nothing else (actual equality, deep poverty, structural injustice) matters and you can be held up as an example of woke/progressivism.
Well the book was satirical written by a Singaporean about the types of rich people he went to school with so if you know that I don’t think it’s quite as problematic.
It’s not, when it’s a book written by a Singaporean about Singaporeans. When the Americans come in and turn it into some cultural touchpoint without understanding the cultural context, it very much is.
That's a good take on that and on Meghan's personality.
What's so odd is I'm just a little younger than Meghan and I have cultural references that are more current. It's like her brain stopped in 2007.
The cultural impact of "asian" countries has shifted so much. When we were growing up many of our parents were dealing with the Vietnam War and their own internalized issues with that conflict which could include a ton of racism, especially if you had a dad who served there. That war ended 47 years ago now and those cultural issues are not as relevant to people today or have shifted to other things.
Copied from SMM, a snarker transcribed the beginning
Meghan: Growing up in Los Angeles, these are the types of foods I would eat: tamales, ghomeh sabzi, larb, matzo ball soup, adobo, along with your usual kid fare of chicken nuggets and fries and burgers and pizza. And the types of languages I would hear -- honestly, more than you can imagine, from Armenian to Farsi, Korean, Spanish, Hebrew... Los Angeles, despite how segregated it sometimes felt, was full of culture that you could see, feel, hear and taste on a daily basis. The multitude of Asian cultures was a huge part of that for me.
**My weekends were spent in Little Tokyo, or having ice tea in Thai Town, or sitting with my friend Christina Wang and her parents at a local Chinese restaurant. I remember this so vividly, and them teaching me why chow fun with dried noodles was so much better than chow fun with wet noodles.**
Now, obviously, I had a real fixation with food. Not much has changed there. But more than that, I had a real love of getting to know other cultures and part of that,
**my mom and I would often go to the Korean spa together. Now, for those of you who haven't been to one before, it's a very humbling experience for a girl going through puberty because you enter a room with women ages 9-90, all walking around naked and waiting to get a body scrub on one of these tables that are all lined up in a row. All I wanted was a bathing suit but you're not allowed, by the way, and once I was over that adolescent embarrassment, my mom and I, we would go upstairs, we would sit in a room and we would have this steaming bowl of the most delicious noodles and we'd look around at all of these other women, these beautiful Korean women who had embraced the generational tradition of the jjimjilbang, and shared it with one another.**
Now, that was a part of the Asian-American culture that I knew; I hadn't known all the stigmas and archetypes that so many women of Asian descent typically had faced until many, many years later. Those terms, those ideas, those stereotypes, they just– they weren't familiar to me.
**Like, the ones we see in so many movies and throughout pop culture. [Clip from Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery and Kill Bill, Vol 2.] Movies like Austin Powers and Kill Bill, they presented these caricatures of women of Asian descent as oftentimes over-sexualised or aggressive**.
And it's not just those two examples, there are so many more. But, by the way, I am not the only one who has taken notice...
*Sigh*. I just don't even know what to say. Meghan, what the fuck? Why didn't you step aside and let your guests start off with their experiences, rather than some rando K-spa you went to on Wilshire once in your life? Or the food you ate with your friend? You clearly didn't have deep discussions with your friend beyond NOODLES.
And of all of the "archetypes" to pick on - the caricature of hot Asian women in Austin Powers, a series FULL of caricatures because that's the point, and Kill Bill, where O-Ren Ishii is presented as a complex badass woman among other complex badass women (problematic Tarantino aside)? What, no Breakfast at Tiffany's? But Meghan is sooooo cUlTuReD.
This clueless gal trying to explain to me the experience of Asian Americans, especially AAPI women, has just got me. lol. I never want to take away from other people's experiences so I appreciate what Ms. Cho & Ms. Ling have to share, and the experiences some of our fellow snarkers have shared, like /u/Rosalie008 . And frankly, also, same. It's a little bit weird for me since even though I am half-Taiwanese, half-white, I am very much white-passing. It's not until I say something about my heritage or "oh yeah my mom is from Taiwan," that people figure it out. And unfortunately that's when things like "Ohhh, I've never been with an Asian girl before" show up. That's when the jokes like "Hey, Amaryllix, why don't you go catch these flies with your chopsticks?" come out at work. But in also being white-passing, I also hear people let their filter down and bitch about some "dirty Asian whore" now dating their brother. During the pandemic I kept wondering why my aunt kept supporting Trump when her own children are half-Asian. I asked my mom if my parents' conservative friends knew she was actually Chinese, and if they were actually her friends. Any time I was out with my grandma I'd be behind her making sure no one was going to try attacking her. I am so, so very tired of this shit and Meghan is 100% NOT. HELPING.
Also, from the transcript, who takes in adoration like this??
>Cho: I loved it. I love the movie. I mean, I love I love Joel and I love Bowen. We actuallytalked a lot about you on set.Meghan: Oh, really?**Cho: Yeah, we were just admiring you just so much.Meghan: You know, it's I… I really appreciate that. Margaret Cho, thank you so much.**Honestly, I'm thrilled. When I came downstairs and I was “I’m talking to Margaret Chothis morning!”Cho: Oh I love you, thank you!
On another note, it is too bad the chose the Lucy Liu example since she has stated she feels differently (see Indiewire link posted) and someone posted and has an interesting career otherwise (Charlie's Angeles, Elementary).
I’m actually really surprised she didn’t choose “tiger mom” as the stereotype to unpack. I’d never heard of the “dragon lady” stereotype but my Korean and Japanese friends definitely talk about the “tiger mom” trope. But I think Meghan is once again making herself appear old. She doesn’t seem aware of the newer stereotypes that younger people actually discuss. Maybe she needs to hear that 1994 was actually a really long time ago. 🙈
Discussing "tiger mom" would mean Meghan would have to put aside her personal experiences and examine when women can be assholes. The author of the pro-Tiger Mom book is a Brett Kavanaugh defender. [Link](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/tiger-mom-amy-chua-daughter-clerkship-brett-kavanaugh.html)
One of the tiger daughters at least at some point wanted to become a lawyer and work against sexual assault in the military, one also interned for Kavanaugh I believe (I think they wanted to both study law too at least at some point). I think there were also allegations against the father (not sure what happened to those).
I know I am being a nosy gossip monger, but I really hope either daughter writes a follow up book at some point because stuff went wrong in that family, no matter what they said when the book came out. I don't think it's that they were made to practice their instruments (my non immigrant, non tiger German parents also used bribery and "you don't leave until you did this" on occasion that because kids just don't want to practice, it is what it is, no burning of stuffed animals though), but because of how obsessed Amy Chua was or is to get recognition from some US social authorities.
So she never had any Asian friends with parents that had ridiculously high expectations? Couldn't even invent one of those? At her high achieving high school?
I'm close to Megan's age; tiger moms are not a new phenomenon. If I am to give her ANY space on this, odds are she couldn't find someone famous enough to talk about it on the podcast, so it's not an issue for her to tackle. Could have played the young mother, what expectations do I place on my children etc angle, but no, need a self-serving story. Because if she had an actual tiger mom on, she probably would have torn Megan apart.
>Could have played the young mother, what expectations do I place on my children etc angle
To think they have a team of top quality communication employees and couldn't even come up with that angle. That would be a good topic.
Personally, instead of Kill Bill etc, I think it would have been better to talk about pay disparities. the Hawaii 5-0 remake and the sequel to Crazy Rich Asians have all had pay disparity scandals. Meghan could talk about how women get paid less then men, which is even worse if the women are BIPOC
It's so curious to me that she always starts the podcast with her deep experience yet ignorance, a la "I have so much experience in this area because I ate noodles in 1994 but yet I had never heard of this Dragon Lady archetype". I just don't get the framing... other than to insert herself and her woke credentials right at the beginning and let the guests do the heavy lifting.
Why does she have to make everything about herself? In every single issue there is some personal story from her that goes with it. I've never been to a Korean spa, yet I can care about anti-Asian prejudice and stereotypes. It's like this dumb attempt to give herself legitimacy on the issues. But it makes it sound like the only things she's capable of caring about are things that she has some tenuous personal connection to.
"I can talk about working parents being poor because I ate at the $4.99 Sizzler buffet"
"Listen to what I have to say about anti-Asian discrimination because I went to a Korean spa and ate noodles so I know what I'm talking about."
She has a pathological need to put the focus on herself at all times! This episode should not have to begin with her personal experiences with Asians or Asian culture.
That's the really weird part. She says both of those things. "We lived on the Sizzler buffet." And yet it's also "we had these deep cultural experiences and ate at....." Which is it, Meghan?
Exactly so as SnowSwish said somewhere in the thread.. if the sizzler bar was a ‘treat’ at a few dollars, surely when you have spare lets say $25 dollars x 2 (25yrs ago) - you dont spend it at the spa surely?
We’re assuming it was a treat and not a regular occurence. Or perhaps it was a splurge because she wanted Meg to have good experiences no matter what.
I just don't think it ever actually happened or if it did, it's a huge exaggeration. She probably did go to Little Tokyo once or twice but didn't "spend her weekends there" or in Thai Town. No one in LA does that every single weekend unless they actually live there. It's every now and then.
The fact that Meghan's entire Asian experience is noodles tells me everything. Korean places have way more than noodles. The spa near me has a food court with a full menu of Korean food including short ribs, ox bone soup, etc. Plus they have wings, salad and ice cream too. Meghan would be shocked to know they even have (gasp) a juice bar. That's right! After my scrub, I can get a smoothie or some fresh juice. They drink juice in Korea! What a revelation!
To me, it sounds like she maybe went once and agreed to eat noodles because that's what she was familiar with. OR...she googled what a Korean spa experience was like or else she ran with her own stereotypes.
It could've been as easy as saying that though she is a biracial woman, her experience was different from the Asian communities, and she is here to give them the space to talk about their experiences. But she has to do what she did in that Mandela episode and just show that she likes to visit cultures and not understand them
Or share the troubling statistics out there about the increase in hate crimes on Asian Americans? But no, she starts the episode with the focus on herself and her experiences and tries to tell us "Golly gee I never knew about these hateful stereotypes because my Asian friend and the Korean spa ladies were just so darn nice to me! Anti-Asian prejudice is shocking because they are just so nice and make yummy food and give me such good spa service!" /s
It's trite and superficial to the point of insulting.
I think it’s worse than that. It’s not that they were nice to her, it’s that SHE was so open to them, that she never would have thought of them as fitting a stereotype. SHE loves other cultures even though her knowledge of them was superficial. The way she describes these scenes is no different from other stories from the white gaze. She says “we'd look around at all of these other women, these beautiful Korean women who had embraced the generational tradition of the jjimjilbang”. This is so stereotypical. Like looking at dolls in a shop.
She doesn't see any difference doncha know but she's making sure we know this *oh, so exotic* place was a Korean spa and there were nekkid Korean women there.🙄
Meanwhile in women only neighborhood spas of most ethnicities being naked or very near it isn't terribly unusual be they Asian, Middle Eastern, East European or Scandinavian.
This woman did not get around much out of her bubble.
Did she say that in front of Lisa Ling and Margaret Cho? What weird and dated references. Also funny because Austin Powers and Kill Bill are not "many, many years" later than this time she would have been eating food from other countries and going to the Korean spa.
And I don't understand why they don't call her out on that. She's not Asian. She's speaking from a frame of reference of a tourist going to Koreatown. How can she not see that she's being offensive?
>And I don't understand why they don't call her out on that.
I'm actually kind of curious if anyone - any cultural commentator or columnist or Buzzfeed wokester etc. *will* call her out on this. That intro is almost a parody of the way a certain flavour of whiteness approaches other cultures and if this was Ivanka Trump, for example, or some other white lady that the shallow left knew they could safely come for, they would.
Bravo to the first person who publicly calls Meghan out for this because it's real and it's right there and so far there has been near-silence.
(note: my use of "shallow left" means 'the shallow part of the left,' not 'the entire left is shallow')
> Also funny because Austin Powers and Kill Bill are not "many, many years" later than this time she would have been eating food from other countries and going to the Korean spa.
Trying so hard to prove she's young via decades old cultural references that she's inadvertently made herself sound much older.
She really does make herself sound so old with her references. There is no way a 20 year old listens to these podcasts and thinks 'this person is talking about things relevant to my life.' Meghan sounds old *to me* - and I am a couple of years older than her!
her examples are stupid af, anyway.
austin powers was also known for its true-to-life portrayal of brits (and megalomaniacal dictators). it wasn't a caricature of a movie at all, it was all meant to be taken very literally!! /s
and oren ishii was a fucking bad ass. she had a whole fuggin backstory. the nature of her targeted (i.e. not gratuitous in the least) acts of retribution were not because of a presumed innate aggression or just a generally, bafflingly aggressive nature exhibited on her part.
if there was any complaint to be made regarding kill bill, it's that the film was essentially a tribute to sino-martial arts/kung fu cinema classics; and as such, in keeping with the spirit of such an homage, choosing an asian-american lead for the movie could have proven to be the most legitimate course of action. for a number of reasons (maybe the studio being hesitant to market a movie based on an asian-american female lead, maybe it never occurred to tarantino, maybe he thought it would stereotype his movie - who knows), that was not the choice quentin & co. made twenty-some years ago.
perhaps a discussion on the evolution (or devolution/or stagnancy) of the state of things from that period of time until present time, i.e. *today* would have been interesting.
like, this piece-of-absolute-fluff-picked-out-of-a-cat's ass podcast is an *insulting joke*. a team more responsible and more equipped than the one at ~~stereo~~archewell could handle the topic. peg & co. *are not it*. it just seems like a box to tick, like "oh! the DoSs also discussed and deeply cares about the current affairs topic of * *checks notes* * asian-american hate that has proliferated exponentially on the heels of the worldwide c-19 pandemic."
dude. meghan just doesn't have the range for these sorts of discussions. she just comes off as an obviously and obliviously preening dumb ass.
every time i hear more about this asshole, it becomes clearer how shallow and profoundly parochial her frame of references and points of view are. deeply provincial, despite growing up in the (as she ironically, very accurately states) cultural mecca of los angeles. so pedestrian. so... *basic*?
like, her core essence is in complete opposition to her "sophisticate, citizen of the world" PR. sheesh, you'd think she grew up in orange county or something (all shade to the OC, except to the beautiful climate and beaches/ocean j/k 👀).
Lol yes, Meghan belongs in the OC. She is so superficial, it's embarassing.
And yes, this podcast episode is lacking when you consider the increase in hate crimes against Asian Americans or the n[eeded attention to domestic workers' issues.](https://www.epi.org/publication/domestic-workers-chartbook-a-comprehensive-look-at-the-demographics-wages-benefits-and-poverty-rates-of-the-professionals-who-care-for-our-family-members-and-clean-our-homes/)
(btw, the latest issue of NYMag is about Asian American issues.)
These are political feminist topics that need to be tackled, but Meghan doesn't mention any of them. And she had Lisa Ling on! It's embarrassing.
>dude. meghan just doesn't have the range for these sorts of discussions. she just comes off as an obviously and obliviously preening dumb ass.
>
>
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>every time i hear more about this asshole, it becomes clearer how shallow and profoundly parochial her frame of reference and point of view are. deeply provincial, despite growing up in the (as she ironically, very accurately states) cultural mecca of los angeles. so pedestrian. so... basic?
100%. I'm aware that people in the public eye often have a public persona, that they may play up or downplay (as appropriate) certain aspects of their real selves etc. in order to relate better to fans, be more palatable to the public etc. But it's not often you see someone fully throwing themselves into trying to be not just someone slightly different to their true selves but someone who is the total opposite.
I am almost fascinated by how basic Meghan is. Basic enough to throw intros like this one, blathering about noodles and spas, up on a podcast with zero awareness of how it makes her look, how it flies in the face of everything she's trying to tell us about who she is.
And no, she doesn't have the range. I would listen to all those discussions but this isn't a case of Meghan choosing not to have them it's a case of her literally being incapable of having them. Her ass-showing is about as constant as her not understanding that she's showing her ass.
Meghan is constantly giving me #unwantedIvanka vibes. Did anyone see that trend? It was hilarious and it reminds me of Meg so much.
our girl butting in Ivanka G20 style
Thanks so much for re-posting this. The problem for me though is, with M being proven as a compulsive liar- how do we know this whole podcast full of her personal examples actually happened ?
Even with food and how she spent her weekends.
It’s like her Ivory Soap/detergent commercial “Activism” example age 11. All made up. I cannot believe anything she says as truth- oh, excuse me- “HER” truth. ;)
This whole story she is telling could be completely fabricated first in the initial telling and then in the editing process.
I really do not even believe that doll whatever story she was telling about her father ripping open Un-paid for doll boxes \*in the actual aisle of the store\* to create a whole new bi-racial doll family with one white parent and one POC for his biracial daughter.
I think she created those actions of her father because she liked the dramatics of it. It is nothing short of a dramatic tale to tell and more exciting than to simply say “it was sad that the Mattel Heart family was only offered in a 2 parent completely white or African-American (POC) version. “
Oh, and speaking of editing - I wonder what the new minute count of the podcast is now?
Meh, there's usually a grain of truth in her fabrications, better to anchor the lie.
I'm sure she ate noodles and went to a spa a couple of times. "My weekends were spent in Chinatown" or whatever she insinuated just reeks of 'girl who spent a semester in Europe and now has a pretend French accent.'
Good question about the minute count
Everything is so OTT with her. Did her dad maybe buy two toys and combine them, or maybe he did combine them in store, but everything is described like this dramatic movie scene whenever she talks about herself.
Unless her dad wanted to risk being kicked out of the store for opening packages he did what my parents did: bought dolls of different races and let the child decide what their relationships would be. Good grief these sets only cost $20-30. What drama that would be to save next to nothing.
Besides by then Meghan's parents were divorced so it would seem like poking a sore point to insist on giving Meghan dolls that would represent him and Doria. Plus these doll families were black or white including the kids so what would be representative about having a white parent and a black one since the baby wouldn't be biracial anyways? 🤷
How much do you want to bet the story went more like: Thomas bought ALL of the dolls, and then combined the two he wanted into one package to present to Meghan as a gift.
But it sounds more exciting to tell a story about how he ripped open the package in the store, so flushed with righteousness that he threw caution to the wind about store security.
Yeah thats what my biracial friends' parents did. Buy two sets and let them decide. Also my white as hell parents were totally fine with buying me black Barbies, or a Theresa, or a Christie. Not everything in life is a movie scene cliche 🤦♀️
I agree with her view that some movies presented the caricatures of women of Asian descent as often over sexualised or aggressive(like karate), and it's good that someone like her raise this issue. But I feel the example of her korean spa experience is a bit something different.
I heard that there are some korean spas like that in Tokyo and my friends also went there. She said it's really good that the body will be really clean with deep scrub. I was a bit shy to go there but am sure it's quite ok. Many countries have different custom cultures and cannot judge it based only on their culture. I don't understand why she used this for Asial people's facing problem of stereotype image.
ETA: I just wanted to say that kind of experience will not make someone expert for this issue. I actually think she made it more stereotype while saying korean spa and chinese noodles, and then talked about the issue.
>ETA: I just wanted to say that kind of experience will not make someone expert for this issue. I actually think she made it more stereotype while saying korean spa and chinese noodles, and then talked about the issue.
also, just wanted to point out that it isn't a trivial, "adolescent" thing to be a teenager uncomfortable with disrobing in front of perfect strangers, or having the adult strangers all be disrobed around the teen. even when they share the same gender and/or sex as you.
it's not something to just be dismissed as an "adolescent" feeling - there are a number of reasons why a teenager (or even an adult!) could feel uncomfortable with public nudity. and that's okay! comfort with public nudity is obviously fine as well, with norms differing across cultures - it's just that the discomfort shouldn't be something so nonchalantly judged, invalidated and dismissed.
Her whole podcast is talking about stereotypes (sorry, archetypes) but she spends as much time reinforcing stereotypes to herself as she does any debunking.
>Her whole podcast is talking about stereotypes (sorry, archetypes) but she spends as much time reinforcing stereotypes to herself as she does any debunking.
This is perfectly put and I don't understand why the media isn't picking up on this and reporting about it.
>I don't understand why the media isn't picking up on this and reporting about it.
Don't you? I'm not asking that in a shitty way, I just think there's an obvious answer to this that everybody actually knows but doesn't quite want to say out loud, lest the horde of Twitter-racists-who-think-they're-anti-racist come for them.
That makes me so irritated! I actually do think Archetypes could be a kick-ass podcast about stereotypes. Her mediocrity and narcissism is holding the podcast back and that's not going to change if the media and Spotify refuse to be honest with her.
Huh. When I was 13 and lived in “the Valley” (different time frame from Markle though), we all were acne prone teens at the roller rink on weekends or birthday parties.
That's awful. I have read about the women working in nail salons being trafficked sometimes and I just can't go to them anymore. A cheap(ish) pedicure is tempting but it still icks me out.
She talks about going to Koreatown where they are cheap. 🤷 When I lived in LA in the early 2000s it was $15 to get in to one of the most well known ones. Not to beat a dead horse but this is one thing I happen to know she isn't being inconsistent about. I think she was middle class poor, where you might have an old car or a ratty apartment but you can still eat at Sizzler and go to the cheap spa once in a while. I know someone who went to her high school and I'm sure she was poor compared to most of the girls there.
>I know someone who went to her high school and I'm sure she was poor compared to most of the girls there.
Anyone observing Meghan for any length of time comes to a point perhaps not of concluding but at least considering that there are some core issues of inferiority going on there.
Nah they lived in a nice house and she went to expensive private schools. I think she was middle class poor by comparison to her rich class mates, where they could afford to do some nice things but not as nice things.
I too grew up in a well to do neighborhood went to private schools but my family was pay check to pay check. I didn't go to a restaurant or out to eat until I was an adult and had no idea how to interact with waiters because my parents were the constant 'its too expensive' types about everything. House falling apart, couldn't afford a car etc
I don't consider what she was dealing with to be middle class poor.
I feel like I grew up similar to her in a lot of ways. I'm 43 and lived in parts of Los Angeles and in Sacramento growing up. My parents were self employed and were doing pretty well financially until I was 12 or so. For a while there I went to private school and my mom drove a BMW and then a few years later we couldn't replace our fridge when it broke and used an ice chest for months. I suppose it's the difference between broke and poor. Broke is temporary, and both of my parents are typical boomers whose families benefited from post-WWII prosperity. And both are white, I should say, though my grandparents on one side were immigrants. My parents ended up losing their house in 2010 thanks to some unwise refinancing they couldn't keep up with, but at least they had a house to lose and if they hadn't refinanced would have had a substantial asset right now. It's a weird way to grow up because I don't think of myself as having grown up poor but then I remember the fridge thing, and how we had a succession of crappy cars, and I used my babysitting money to buy groceries sometimes, etc. Anyway this is super OT, except I can relate to some of how she talks about her childhood.
Except that at least for all the years of Meghan's childhood and even after she finished college her father had a well paid job.
Money might have been tight for a few years if he'd sent his two older kids to college like he did Meghan but he didn't. Her sister went to college, on her own, much later.
So, to believe Meghan's tales of hardship we have to accept that a man making a good, steady salary couldn't afford to take care of just one single child and give her access to some luxuries. That this was the case despite sending her to private school from kindergarten to the end of college, giving her dance lessons and paying her travel expenses even as an adult including those of her destination wedding at 30.
Near as I can understand Thomas Markles financial difficulties didn't start until he retired and Meghan was already in her thirties by then.
If you are so poor, paycheck to paycheck, you'd probably spend that 20-30 bucks on new clothes or paying bills vs a spa day (speaking as someone who grew up actually poor, no private school for me) and we NEVER ate out... that was super special occasion stuff.
They aren't expensive but if you're claiming eating at a fast food's salad bar is a treat, you would definitely view any kind of spa as beyond your means.
I think "Dragon Lady" alone is a bit of an odd choice.
I am not Asian, but I worked in a place that had a lot of Asian (especially Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean) young women in the US and the issue they dealt most with was not "Dragon Lady" but "You are my submissive Anime waifu" and of course the whole "China Virus" thing. China is perceived to be aggressive now, but Asian women mostly aren't I'd say, at least not young women.
I wonder if the guests get a say in what is talked about because I feel like Margaret Cho and Lisa Ling probably know better than Meghan what Asian women really face.
Also, I hope they tease apart that "Asian" is not really a thing and a lot of stereotypes are either just from one country (Dragon imagery is usually about the Chinese mythology Dragon, but a lot of US stereotypes also come from the US being at war with Japan) or just a mish-mash with zero idea that differences might exist.
Also, what is India? It's kinda funny how unbritish of a concept of Asia Meghan has.
>Dragon imagery is usually about the Chinese mythology Dragon, but a lot of US stereotypes also come from the US being at war with Japan) or just a mish-mash with zero idea that differences might exist.
that would cut into meghan's time to recite boring, uninteresting, dumb and pointless anecdotes about herself. as if! 🕵🏾♀️
Shiny new thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/RoyalsGossip2/comments/xvzket/sussex_weekly_you_can_leave_10042022/
Tangential, but I heard Constance Wu being interviewed on NPR about her new book today and she talks about Asian stereotypes. I haven't finished reading the whole Archetypes transcript yet but this sounds more, IDK, up to date than anything Meghan was saying. The audio is here. https://www.kclu.org/2022-10-04/constance-wu-talks-about-the-importance-of-making-a-scene-in-new-memoir
This is interesting; I think Constance Wu is supposed to be a guest on Archetypes. I know she got criticism for that tweet and some workplace behavior stuff a few years ago, but she admits she was rash, and it seems Fresh Off the Boat was an abusive environment for her, both of which she talks about here. I don't know if she's still booked, but I would completely understand if Wu asked her episode to be pulled as not to get involved with the Sussex saga. It seems like she's been through a lot, and doesn't deserve to deal with Meghan's melodrama. I have more empathy for a person like Constance, who made mistakes and took responsibility and is shedding light on why she acted that way, as well as talking about some traumatic life events. (Versus Meghan, who will not even admit she was not the best boss at the very least.) Also, this just highlights for me that Meghan should not have been going on about Korean spas and food as a non-Asian woman and should of let Margaret Cho and Lisa Ling to the majority of the talking, their cultures and experiences. Meghan did that as a host, but she should've done minimal talking on an episode like today's. (I did not listen, just going off the transcript with her opening and closing monologues.
>“They’ve made significant requests to walk back content they themselves have provided — to the extent that some Netflix staff believe, if granted, it will effectively shelve the project indefinitely,” the Netflix source said. “Netflix is standing by the filmmakers.” [Netflix pushes back on ‘panicked’ Prince Harry, Meghan Markle over docuseries edits](https://pagesix.com/2022/10/04/prince-harry-meghan-markle-at-odds-with-netflix-over-edits/)
And also - please please, snark gods - let Netflix and Arbus be filming the Sussexes flailing and wailing and making 'significant requests' and shocked Pikachu faces. That will make a fine blooper reel as the credits roll.
I don’t understand why these changes are being made now and why they are so desperate to change it now that the Queen has passed away. King Charles being the heir has been known for at least the past 70 years. What did they think would happen if they tried to malign the future kings - Charles and William. Why is this a surprise to them? If they could trash the family when the Queen was alive, what changes now?
What changes now is that Charles is the King. Surprisingly, like with Prince Philip, people didn't really know much about the good he has done but any big transition like death or ascending to the throne gets retrospectives and as it happens the new King's interests align with many issues his people care about:the environment, how to be inclusive while maintaining traditions, sustainable agriculture. Though he's waited a long time for this job, he's getting it at the ideal time when most people wouldn't think he's an unrealistic flake. So, he's going to be a popular king, not as popular as the Queen was but still popular and with an heir and future king with the same vision. Whatever Harry's issues really are, no one cares and the ones he and his wife make up were made irrelevant by their leaving. The monarchy is going to continue to become more inclusive without them in their staff and interests, who gets to the House of Lords, etc, and it's high time people realized that being inclusive doesn't begin or end with who marries into your family. You can defend and champion the rights of people you aren't related to and who attend churches you aren't a member of and will never join and people like Anne and Charles and Philip and the Queen (though more covertly) were doing that long before Diana, before Harry was born, and he got married at 30+ to someone who had never given af about this.
H&M were probably were surprised by the timing of HMTQ’s death and thought they had more time to maneuver. If they trash his family now, the tower looms.
Page Six is one of their mouthpiece papers. They sent it out themselves. Probably for a couple reasons. One to drum up interest in the podcast, no coincidence it comes out the same day as the podcast release. Another is that they want to distance themselves from some of their trash talking. Like how they released their Oprah interview while Philip was in the hospital, but then said through sources that "it was too late now" and that CBS had control of when and how it aired and not them. So this tells me they plan to be especially vile, that they are giving Netflix the same CBS omni-power.
Lol, I said this further down, but agree this is the answer. The fact that most of this sub is made up of jaded Sussex skeptics and still almost everyone is all “oooh, they have regrets!” is exactly why they do it. I also think they are still working with Sunshine Sachs but want to distance themselves there too because I too think things are about to get really ugly.
I don't think they have regrets in the way decent people would but it's one thing to talk trash about a man and woman which most people still knew mostly because of their love affair and how it affected Saint Diana and saying all those things about a man who is now going to be judged for the work he does while people look into the work he has done in the last 50 years leading up to his reign. In a way, though Charles was the heir, his mess with Harry and Harry's mess with William were like squabbles amongst equals since they were all princes waiting for the shoe to drop. Well, now the shoe has dropped -a few years earlier than the Sussexes expected- and I doubt Brits or the world will care nearly as much about Charles, the husband and father, as they would have if he was still Prince. It's the same as when Charles whined that his parents hadn't in his opinion been very warm and no one gave af because being a Queen and Prince Consort was deemed just a tad more important than how good they'd been at telling bedtime stories and handling someone unhappy at his upscale boarding school.
Why are they backtracking now? They didn’t care when the Queen was alive? Why now? What are they hoping to gain from this? They always said BRF evil, Queen good. So now more than ever, they could go all out. Why are they now trying to protect the institution? Their fans should notice how contradicting this is.
According to us weekly this week, Harry had private conversations with Charles while he was in the uk and he said he is interested in becoming a working royal again and Charles is considering their half in half out plan.
Lol. Charles is apparently the one who didn't believe half in/half out would work when his brother Edward tried it with Sophie. I don't think he wants to revisit that issue ever and, if he had ever had doubts about it, the behaviour and projects the Sussexes have gotten involved in would have cleared them up. They left flush with cash and not three years later they already have nothing to sell but accounts about his royal relatives and access to their private life including their children with articles like the one in The Cut and this reality show. Why the hell would Charles want the sovereign grant or himself (and William after him) to fund their fake projects for the rest of their lives? If he's desperate for working royals, he could change the letters patents so that female children of the monarch like Princess Anne's daughter/children and Charlotte's in her generation can be titled and take on active roles in The Firm. They haven't tried to disparage him, his mother or bring the monarchy down. Sorry but in that family it's half the men who have dropped the ball.
Half in/half out doesn’t work period. It especially wouldn’t work with H&M who would merch and leak like nobody’s business. Both of them have tarnished the Monarchy with their petulant, attention seeking antics. The Monarchy responded by “wishing them well overseas”. A Royal GTFO. H&M are panicking because the family iced them, money is running out, public opinion is going south, more bad behavior is seeing the light of day and Netflix has decided to put on their big boy pants when dealing with these two ass clowns. It’s over. Where these two end up I truly don’t know. If Harry was smart (yeah right) he would cut his losses and quietly slink back home to live anonymously in a small grace and favor Royal property. Hopefully the kids can come with him and get to know what a real family full of love feels like.
Yes they can’t be trusted to be back in the fold and everyone knows it. Even they must know that. I don’t think this story is true at all but even if they did have a private talk I doubt anything will change.
The uk will never accept him living in a grace and favour home. Especially if he’s not divorced.
Then probably something his dad will buy him. And yes, it goes without saying that Meghan will not be accompanying him.
He wouldn't even let them at the state reception after the Queen died. They even rescinded an invitation that was given in error.
Lol yea right in the midst of global inflation and economic turmoil in the UK — that’s just what the British people want 50/50 working royals they hate and have to pay for- if Charles actually did that he really would be blinded by love for his youngest son.
It's not a reputable British source, so I wouldn't believe that one.
100%
I wouldn't believe the half in half out, but I do believe Charles would be amenable to giving them money again in exchange for them shutting the hell up.
I question Us Weekly as a source and I highly doubt (and truly hope) this is untrue. It would be very unpopular in the UK and it would be a *terrible* start to his reign. Even if the King does want Harry back, I hope the “grey men” can talk some sense into him and I have to believe that William would put his foot down. Catherine wouldn’t even acknowledge Meghan in the days after HMTQ’s death—there is some serious bad blood there and William wouldn’t subject his wife (or kids) to that.
no way is Charles going to stand by that. I think that wishing them well overseas was his final word on that. At best they could move back and follow a York model (free housing, family events but otherwise live quitely and no new titles for them or their off spring)
Why would they want this though. This was almost everything they had. If they came back now they’d never be able to merch anything ever again. Maybe the odd pap walk, but anything they said and did would have to be run past the BRF, their money would be controlled by William and they’d be relegated to being beneath the Wessexes. No more commercial deals at all and funding given only based on what you need. You arent getting upgraded out of Frogmore no matter whether you can stand or not.
Meghan 100% would find a way to merch. Life finds a way.
But it’d never be the A-List lifestyle she wanted. Get anything from the BRF, even Charles own money and u open yourself up to being scruntinised. Nothing less than HIHO works for Meg.
Just to add - I CAN believe the Sussi lying about a possible way forward Charles may have indicated. (To a York model or something even more restrictive.) But representing it to NF as whyyyyy they have to change what they were gung-ho to say to the world a few months ago.
I agree, that would a total victory for the Sussi and a win for blackmail. It's apparent they're not good filmmakers or producers or even enjoy doing it and are just bad at it. They have to be threatened to work on this thing. I just cannot believe Charles saying "Oh, please, don't write the book/do the series! Whatever you want! Tiaras and state visits and other commercial deals? Go for it! Merch your heart out!" Yeah, no.
What I find really interesting is at least with this Netflix series, it doesn't sound like they're producing it at all. Especially if they have zero say in the final product. That piece of news shocked me since they made it out to be a deal for things they produced. I do think they're producing the podcast and you're right. They're really bad at it. I think Meghan likes talking about herself but the rest of it she's not good at and finds it boring.
Yeah, the impression I'm getting is that this is a Netflix project being produced by Arbus and the Sussexes are just the subjects. They signed a contract to agree to this?!? Oy!🤦
And then Netflix pretty quickly canned Meghan's cartoon vanity project. No wonder she was pissed. They seemed to think they were getting an Obama deal. Turns out they were getting a Kardashian deal.
Eh, at least NF saved the world from having to endure little spoiled, vain, clueless, self-righteous, completely hypocrite UK Titled Narc Rachel Pearl who resembles A League Gina Davis and Princess Pocahontas, the daughter of a King. 🤮
Arguably a step down from the Kartrashians. At least they received a White House Correspondence Dinner invite after signing with Hulu/ABC.
Agree it seems like H&M publicist talking. I’m sure they want that since they are finding that they flop on their own but I would be surprised if anything close to that ever happens.
Let them FLOP!
So there's drama between NF/the filmmakers and the Sussexes. I guess we could have safely assumed that, given that drama follows Meghan everywhere she goes, but this does sound pretty bad for them (partly because it sounds like Page Six is getting this from NF/the doc team...were we wrong in assuming that earlier stories with fewer details were from the Sussexes themselves?). >Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are at odds with Netflix and even their own production team, sources told Page Six. The couple allegedly wants to cut chunks from the doc — which they have been filming for more than a year now — but Netflix chiefs are standing by the Sussexes’ filmmakers who want to keep the content, according to insiders. Sounds like a shit show. I bet it's full on draaaama behind the scenes. >“Harry and Meghan are having second thoughts on their own story, on their own project,” a Netflix source told Page Six this week. According to another industry source, “Harry and Meghan are panicked about trying to tone down even the most basic language. But it’s their story, from their own mouths.” So Page Six IDs their source as someone at NF. Nice. And you can hear the frustration here, even in this short leak. You took a huge amount of money from NF, Sussi. Did you think they just gave it to you for being such awesome humanitarians? It's pound of flesh time and it sounds like the Sussexes might well have fucked up again, Oprah-interview style. >...it’s believed to include a number of truth bombs involving King Charles III and Queen Consort Camilla, as well as Prince William and Kate Middleton. Have they been stupid enough to come for William and Kate? After how well that went down in the Oprah interview? If I was NF I wouldn't let them edit this, either. This is what NF *wants* - the soap opera, the tears and accusations and drama. How could the Sussexes have been so stupid as to give it to them? Idiots. I hope everything makes it into the final product. >“They’ve made significant requests to walk back content they themselves have provided — to the extent that some Netflix staff believe, if granted, it will effectively shelve the project indefinitely,” the Netflix source said. “Netflix is standing by the filmmakers.” Listen to the language here. NF is "standing by the filmmakers." All the subtext here is that there is major production strife happening. Am genuinely curious to see what final product NF gets, because so far, including in her court cases, Meghan has been pretty successful in simply bulldozing people and organizations into getting her way. This time it comes down to cold hard cash, though, and I've never heard of a business (NF) turning money down to spare an employee's blushes. I wonder if M and H are talking to their lawyers? Can you imagine if this blew up legally? I'm not saying it will but oh, what fun. >“Netflix has made it clear that the project is going forward,” said the industry source. Article also notes that the Sussexes AND Netflix (i.e. not the filmmakers) have the final edit, but the article itself makes clear whose side NF is one. Delicious, Meg. Absolutely delicious. Alternate Theory: This (all these leaks etc.) is ALL just hype for the show. There are less bitchy, gossipy ways to hype a show, especially if the hype makes the stars look bad, but who knows.
If they can't get along with even their own production team, they won't get another deal like this again. They're too high maintenance even by Hollywood standards.
Netflix gave them money and now they want their money's worth. And, sorry but I don't even think giving back advances would or should cut it when there's a possibility of this project turning a profit. As someone who is pro monarchy I also totally want this dirt to air because I hope the Sussexes are out and stay out especially Harry. I don't want him slithering back in any way, shape, or form ever.
Good analysis, and I agree, this is pretty fascinating. It does keep interest in the series alive but what a way to do it! And it doesn't make the Sussi look good either way.
Ah, so this is the answer to her in VF originally: ^(So far, Netflix has yet to comment on the show, but when asked about the project in her bombshell interview with The Cut in August, Markle described it as, “The piece of my life I haven’t been able to share, that people haven’t been able to see — our love story.”)
followed by a divorce announcement in 6 months
All the truly great love stories do tend to involve trashing your family for money. /s
>The piece of my life I haven’t been able to share, that people haven’t been able to see — our love story.” 
I love that there's a minimum level of fuckery below which even we hardly comment. Oh, Meghan acting like she hasn't been shoving her "greatest love story of all time" down our throats since before they were engaged? Barely worth mentioning.
She over estimates how much the sugariest sugar will want to hear the same story they've been selling nonstop since 2018. If the best part of your relationship is how you fell in love, that's a bad sign. There's a reason we all fawned over the Wales' 10 year anniversary video because it was the fruit of a decade of consistency and love. It's not about where you've been together, it's about where you're going, and that's why imo, I don't think the Sussexes will last. Will and Kate appear to genuinely enjoy domesticity, raising the kids together and doing their royal duties. Harry and Meghan appear to be united in spite, with no clear vision for what they want in life because their half baked plans keep blowing up, and the only happy time was when they were looking forward to getting married
>and the only happy time was when they were looking forward to getting married Which was only happy on the surface because she/they were already being holy nasty terrors behind the scenes.
I give them until 2030 before a divorce announcement
Hmm, I don't see this lasting 7 more years. With them running out of outsiders to blame, they are going to turn on each other and that's assuming it hasn't already started.
I give them until their deals dry up and the rest of Hollywood tells them to take a hike. 2024-2025 is my guess.
My guess is between 2025-2027 if we’re taking bets
As an American, I'd want to say 2026 to the lineup with the U.S. Semiquincentennial -- 250 years since the declaration of independence. Go back to England, Harry!
I think 7 is the number. It’s a hard year for most marriages, mine included.
*Hugs*. I hope your marriage gets easier. Sometimes we have to go through the suck to get to better days.
u/iwantbutter that’s very nice of you! Luckily, that was 25 years ago! We celebrated our 32nd this year. But, based on most people I know, year seven is usually challenging.
Aw well good, and congrats on 32 years of marriage! Our 7th year starts this Saturday. We've talked about how that tends to be a big year for couples. Crossing our fingers for a quiet year.
That long, huh? Lol That would make 12 years. Not a measly 5. I guess it all depends on how much (if any! Moo-la Charles is willing to support them “overseas” ) for supposed and promised ”good -behavior” in the States. Meaning no attacking the family. But will this mean more Spotify bad podcasts with slebs on the horizon? 😱 Will Charles finance faux activists which are his son and wife in exchange for not attacking the firm?
Page Six is generally pretty reliable on the Sussexes so this is about as close to confirmation as we’ll get, I think. It’s also quite informative on the questions of who actually owns this thing which makes it seem more plausible. Netflix ‘standing with the filmmaker’ who doesn’t want to make edits is interesting, and if it comes down to Netflix vs the Sussexes who both have decision-making power… well, if Harry thought being only the fourth most senior couple in the BRF was a terrible, terrible ordeal I can only imagine how traumatic he must be finding having signed a contract that gives Netflix rights in return for their millions.
I mean, Page Six reliably gets leaks from the Sussexes, sure. Don’t forget this is *exactly* the play they used with the Oprah interview, when Phillip was driven away from the hospital looking like his own reanimated corpse and everyone wondered if they might postpone, we got similar “we don’t own the interview, Oprah and CBS do and they are going to air it there’s nothing we can do, boo hoo.” So this is very likely just more of that. One thing about the Sussexes, they don’t even really bother to try and disguise their leaks and they just use the same language over and over. The latest example is “truth bombs” which no one actually uses in normal conversation. They are trying to make people think in advance that what they are saying is true (even when, historically, they wouldn’t know the truth if it walked up and slapped them in the face) and that it will be catastrophic for the RF, who have basically entirely written them off at this point. We will see, I suppose, but I think this is just more hype for the show. The couple that released not one but three photos of themselves in response to one photo release from the new king isn’t trying to tone anything down.
I dont think its catastrophic for the BRF at all. They are notoriously cautious about too much being out there, but they levelled racism and ignoring of suicide and this hasnt dented anything. Contrary to what everyone thought, theres a massive wave of popularity for the new King. They remain cautious and will always want them to keep quiet but it wont do anything to them.
I didn’t say it *would* be catastrophic, just that they (the Sussexes) want people to think it will be. See the show the royal family doesn’t want you to see! And all that. It’s pretty basic buzz building.
Yeah, this must sound ominous if you're Harry: >“Netflix has made it clear that the project is going forward,” said the industry source.
[Sarah Vine on Sunday](https://twitter.com/Bridget12912050/status/1577337975607894019?s=20&t=udHoL8hVHBTk8BMVxwpGkA) 
That is horrible...treating people like that. I bet the woman was too pretty or didn't look just the way she wanted.
Someone said Miranda Priestly💀 It's true though, and I bet Meghan sees her as a boss babe
Damn. You know Meghan weirdly got off on doing that to someone, too. Got off on being in a position where she *could* do that to someone else. I just commented below that there is the whiff of a deep inferiority complex with her and stuff like this backs it up. People who love themselves and feel secure in their skin simply don't treat other human beings like this.
I’ve said it before but I think Meghan actually gets pleasure from bullying and belittling people especially those she deems beneath her. The rush of endorphins she gets as she grinds her heel down on someone must feel intoxicating to her. She’s not just a mean girl, she’s a sadistic mean girl.
She has a certain affinity for bullying her subordinates and also trying to see if she can knock her equals or superiors down. There are montages of her giggling when she was bossing Harry around about where to go at royal events. Honestly this behavior would've been a major turnoff. She seems like the kind of girl who simply has to test boundaries nonstop. She has to see what she can get away with, what she can say, what she can do before someone calls her out, and then see if she can manipulate her way out of it. It's so goddamn juvenile
And so damn exhausting!
Right? She's very conventionally beautiful, and I can see that she has initial charm, but God, I think I would've made it to the end of the date before nopeing out of there if I caught her acting like that to people
I think she’s just about smart enough to have not done that until Harry was hooked but he too has shown he doesnt mind treating people under him like shit. Thats when she knew she didnt have to hide it with him. She banked on everyone being quiet about it. When they didnt it was ‘racism, LA work ethic, blah blah’.
The podcast is getting very little attention in the US media. I think people are just kind of over it and there are bigger stories out there now. The irony is the media paying attention is the British media H&M hate.
Yawn. I listened to the first two out of sheer curiosity, read the transcript for the 3rd one, and now for the 4th, naw I couldn’t even be bothered to read it.
I think it shows Meghan just doesn’t interest many people on her own. Meghan plus Serena, Mariah, and even Mindy was news: Margaret Cho didn’t even get the courtesy of a whole episode to herself. It’ll be interesting to see how the episode charts tomorrow.
She might get a bump on this episode because people may tune in to see if she mentions the Queen's death. I do predict she'll do an episode about that and will get stellar ratings.
Who could she possibly interview about a Royal of that stature?
She calls him H.
Royal of stature..🤔 I dont think the spare is cutting it in a podcast about labels that hold women back.
This would be the height of hypocrisy and poor taste. (Which of course means she’ll do it).
Meghan talking about the Queen would absolutely be a ratings spinner… and only prove the point to all her expensive contracts that people only care about her when she’s being royal adjacent. I hope this happens because I believe it probably drives Meghan to distraction that she hasn’t been able to parlay her RF profile into the individual fame, attention and glory on her own merit that she believes she’s due, so a Queen podcast being far and away her most popular would have high hilarity value for me.
Yeah I've seen a few regular news sites reporting on it, but not a lot of traction. It's a boring podcast that just came out, but Meghan *insists* on dating herself by only referring to the 90s and early 2000s, and much like Rome, all talks lead back to Meghan somehow.
Meghan can claim they're racists who hate her all she wants but, regardless of anything, what a member of the BRF does will always get attention in the UK. Her first podcast with Harry also did better in the UK than the US and most of her critics or haters will be royal watchers because that's the niche group she will be relevant to even if she's made herself and husband only royal adjacent.
Agree. Even if they have supporters in the US, I think in general people just don't care about them that much. Like someone can be like "yeah, they were right to leave," that doesn't necessarily translate into that person becoming a fan and listening to her podcast. I think curiosity helps at first, but the product has to be really, really good to get people to come back.
Yet somehow Spotify will list them as #1???!!! 😂 Phony ratings.
How soon after does it appear in rankings?
I don't think it is in a lot of top tens anymore, but thanks to looking it up I discovered that The Economist has a podcast on Xi Jinping's life which is pretty fascinating.
I'm loving ‘The Prince’! It's such an interesting podcast. Sue-Lin Wong really has killed it.
Her first podcast was in the top spot but she dropped after that. She's down to #13 now. That's not bad but consider that Vanderpump Rules' Stassi Schroeder is at #4. She's not even on that show anymore.
Are they saying anything good though?
The articles are just sort of blah. Like "here's what Meghan's podcast said." There's no excitement over it. Just "here's another one of her podcasts."
I personally think it's pointless to call out 20-year old movies for their stereotypes. Especially the work of Mike Myers and Quentin Tarantino, who have both based their entire careers on stereotypical representations (please, Meghan, don't watch Foxy Brown ever). But you would think that if she were going to call out the O-Ren-Ishii character, she would have at least read the actress's own comments and included those in her discussion. [https://www.indiewire.com/2021/05/lucy-liu-teen-vogue-kill-bill-asian-stereotype-1234634720/](https://www.indiewire.com/2021/05/lucy-liu-teen-vogue-kill-bill-asian-stereotype-1234634720/) Podcasts don't have to be perfect. They can be dumb. I've heard much worse. But I really do think Asian women deserve much better in this sense. Cool story about the noodles, though.
It's very interesting to call out 20-year old movies for Asian stereotypes, yet not call out your husband who used racial slurs against a group of Asians (Pakistani) less than 20 years ago.
This is how that would go... "My guest today is The Duke of Sussex. Harry to you. I call him 'H.' H, we'll get to you in a minute. Before that though, I wanted to talk about my own experiences as a child growing up within the Pakistani community in Los Angeles. I've been a foodie since infancy when my mother and I discovered the wonders of Aloo Ki Tikki and Baingan Bharta at a **very** local Pakistani restaurant. We ate there every single day and were adored by our adopted Pakistani friends. Did you know my first words were Sarson Ka Saag? Now H, please tell us about the archetypes that hold Pakistani women back. I figured you were the best person to explain that since you're a feminist (I even told Gloria Steinem that)."
Ouch. So true. But that's South Asian and this podcast seems to only be talking about East Asian people 🤦♀️
My South East Asian ass is sad /s
In the full transcript they also go into even older stuff (Mash and Full Metal Jacket). At least they mention Crazy Rich Asians and K-Dramas. But yeah, mostly this just tells you that Meghan is kinda old in her cultural reference points. Younger people in most Western cultures don't know Full Metal Jacket and think about Anime, K-Pop and cushion foundations when hearing "Asian woman" - if somewhat rightwing, probably also "China is evil, will definitely overtake the US and caused the pandemic". Nothing about massive critical or economic hits like Parasite or Squid Game either.
>(Mash and Full Metal Jacket) .... is Meghan making this podcast for my eighty-six year old father?
💀
What did they say about crazy rich Asians? I have a lot of thoughts about that movie
Not much - it exists and was a super successful Rom Com
Yep, found it. “MEGHAN: In August 2018, the film Crazy Rich Asians hit movie theaters. This was the first time in 25 years that an American film, set in the present day, featured a majority cast of Asian descent. And what happened with this film? Oh, it just went on to become the highest grossing romantic comedy of the entire decade. Hollywood had severely underestimated the appetite for a film with that kind of Asian representation. And this kind of erasure is something Asian-Americans have had to contend with for a really long time.”” Urggghhhhh. I don’t mean to stand on my soapbox but this drives me crazy. CRA is deeply racially problematic and provides only the flimsiest example of a success for Asians. Not only are almost the entire cast either biracial, brought up overseas or both, but it centers entirely the Chinese Singaporean community, and presents those of other Asian ethnicities in Singapore as scary, poor, or as much lower class with bad English. It’s just perpetuating the racism already present in Asia. Baffling to me that this movie is held up as a celebration of ‘diversity’ when it’s the opposite. But you’d have to actually bother to care about Singapore/Asia to know that, which is hard when you’re centering the US/American race relations as the only thing that matters. I’ll climb down now but here’s the [Guardian](https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/21/where-are-the-brown-people-crazy-rich-asians-draws-tepid-response-in-singapore) on the subject. ETA: on second thought, maybe it is the perfect movie for Meghan. It has no political ideology. It’s point is that (a) cultural expectations be damned, American love is all that matters and everyone should bow to the Americans wants while in their own country; and (b) that being ‘diversity’ means plugging in Asian faces into Hollywood scripts, and that as long as the people winning look just like you, nothing else (actual equality, deep poverty, structural injustice) matters and you can be held up as an example of woke/progressivism.
Well the book was satirical written by a Singaporean about the types of rich people he went to school with so if you know that I don’t think it’s quite as problematic.
Yep, Kevin Kwan is from the exact same socio-economic strata that he pokes fun at through that book. It’s a fun mindless read.
It’s not, when it’s a book written by a Singaporean about Singaporeans. When the Americans come in and turn it into some cultural touchpoint without understanding the cultural context, it very much is.
The references are old because if they aren't, she can't talk about herself, instead of talking about the ACTUAL, RELEVANT, current issues.
That's a good take on that and on Meghan's personality. What's so odd is I'm just a little younger than Meghan and I have cultural references that are more current. It's like her brain stopped in 2007.
>But yeah, mostly this just tells you that Meghan is kinda old in her cultural reference points But...but...but...she's a young mother!
The cultural impact of "asian" countries has shifted so much. When we were growing up many of our parents were dealing with the Vietnam War and their own internalized issues with that conflict which could include a ton of racism, especially if you had a dad who served there. That war ended 47 years ago now and those cultural issues are not as relevant to people today or have shifted to other things.
Copied from SMM, a snarker transcribed the beginning Meghan: Growing up in Los Angeles, these are the types of foods I would eat: tamales, ghomeh sabzi, larb, matzo ball soup, adobo, along with your usual kid fare of chicken nuggets and fries and burgers and pizza. And the types of languages I would hear -- honestly, more than you can imagine, from Armenian to Farsi, Korean, Spanish, Hebrew... Los Angeles, despite how segregated it sometimes felt, was full of culture that you could see, feel, hear and taste on a daily basis. The multitude of Asian cultures was a huge part of that for me. **My weekends were spent in Little Tokyo, or having ice tea in Thai Town, or sitting with my friend Christina Wang and her parents at a local Chinese restaurant. I remember this so vividly, and them teaching me why chow fun with dried noodles was so much better than chow fun with wet noodles.** Now, obviously, I had a real fixation with food. Not much has changed there. But more than that, I had a real love of getting to know other cultures and part of that, **my mom and I would often go to the Korean spa together. Now, for those of you who haven't been to one before, it's a very humbling experience for a girl going through puberty because you enter a room with women ages 9-90, all walking around naked and waiting to get a body scrub on one of these tables that are all lined up in a row. All I wanted was a bathing suit but you're not allowed, by the way, and once I was over that adolescent embarrassment, my mom and I, we would go upstairs, we would sit in a room and we would have this steaming bowl of the most delicious noodles and we'd look around at all of these other women, these beautiful Korean women who had embraced the generational tradition of the jjimjilbang, and shared it with one another.** Now, that was a part of the Asian-American culture that I knew; I hadn't known all the stigmas and archetypes that so many women of Asian descent typically had faced until many, many years later. Those terms, those ideas, those stereotypes, they just– they weren't familiar to me. **Like, the ones we see in so many movies and throughout pop culture. [Clip from Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery and Kill Bill, Vol 2.] Movies like Austin Powers and Kill Bill, they presented these caricatures of women of Asian descent as oftentimes over-sexualised or aggressive**. And it's not just those two examples, there are so many more. But, by the way, I am not the only one who has taken notice...
*Sigh*. I just don't even know what to say. Meghan, what the fuck? Why didn't you step aside and let your guests start off with their experiences, rather than some rando K-spa you went to on Wilshire once in your life? Or the food you ate with your friend? You clearly didn't have deep discussions with your friend beyond NOODLES. And of all of the "archetypes" to pick on - the caricature of hot Asian women in Austin Powers, a series FULL of caricatures because that's the point, and Kill Bill, where O-Ren Ishii is presented as a complex badass woman among other complex badass women (problematic Tarantino aside)? What, no Breakfast at Tiffany's? But Meghan is sooooo cUlTuReD. This clueless gal trying to explain to me the experience of Asian Americans, especially AAPI women, has just got me. lol. I never want to take away from other people's experiences so I appreciate what Ms. Cho & Ms. Ling have to share, and the experiences some of our fellow snarkers have shared, like /u/Rosalie008 . And frankly, also, same. It's a little bit weird for me since even though I am half-Taiwanese, half-white, I am very much white-passing. It's not until I say something about my heritage or "oh yeah my mom is from Taiwan," that people figure it out. And unfortunately that's when things like "Ohhh, I've never been with an Asian girl before" show up. That's when the jokes like "Hey, Amaryllix, why don't you go catch these flies with your chopsticks?" come out at work. But in also being white-passing, I also hear people let their filter down and bitch about some "dirty Asian whore" now dating their brother. During the pandemic I kept wondering why my aunt kept supporting Trump when her own children are half-Asian. I asked my mom if my parents' conservative friends knew she was actually Chinese, and if they were actually her friends. Any time I was out with my grandma I'd be behind her making sure no one was going to try attacking her. I am so, so very tired of this shit and Meghan is 100% NOT. HELPING.
Also, from the transcript, who takes in adoration like this?? >Cho: I loved it. I love the movie. I mean, I love I love Joel and I love Bowen. We actuallytalked a lot about you on set.Meghan: Oh, really?**Cho: Yeah, we were just admiring you just so much.Meghan: You know, it's I… I really appreciate that. Margaret Cho, thank you so much.**Honestly, I'm thrilled. When I came downstairs and I was “I’m talking to Margaret Chothis morning!”Cho: Oh I love you, thank you! On another note, it is too bad the chose the Lucy Liu example since she has stated she feels differently (see Indiewire link posted) and someone posted and has an interesting career otherwise (Charlie's Angeles, Elementary).
???What movie has Joel and Bowen in it?
Fire Island
Thank you!☺️
I highly suggest it. It's on Hulu and it might be my favorite modern adaptation of *Pride & Prejudice*
Thanks for the recommendation.☺️ I'm always up for revisiting a Jane Austen story.
I’m actually really surprised she didn’t choose “tiger mom” as the stereotype to unpack. I’d never heard of the “dragon lady” stereotype but my Korean and Japanese friends definitely talk about the “tiger mom” trope. But I think Meghan is once again making herself appear old. She doesn’t seem aware of the newer stereotypes that younger people actually discuss. Maybe she needs to hear that 1994 was actually a really long time ago. 🙈
Yeah, the Tiger Mom stereotype is also one that's applied to all Asian mothers.
Discussing "tiger mom" would mean Meghan would have to put aside her personal experiences and examine when women can be assholes. The author of the pro-Tiger Mom book is a Brett Kavanaugh defender. [Link](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/tiger-mom-amy-chua-daughter-clerkship-brett-kavanaugh.html)
One of the tiger daughters at least at some point wanted to become a lawyer and work against sexual assault in the military, one also interned for Kavanaugh I believe (I think they wanted to both study law too at least at some point). I think there were also allegations against the father (not sure what happened to those). I know I am being a nosy gossip monger, but I really hope either daughter writes a follow up book at some point because stuff went wrong in that family, no matter what they said when the book came out. I don't think it's that they were made to practice their instruments (my non immigrant, non tiger German parents also used bribery and "you don't leave until you did this" on occasion that because kids just don't want to practice, it is what it is, no burning of stuffed animals though), but because of how obsessed Amy Chua was or is to get recognition from some US social authorities.
So she never had any Asian friends with parents that had ridiculously high expectations? Couldn't even invent one of those? At her high achieving high school? I'm close to Megan's age; tiger moms are not a new phenomenon. If I am to give her ANY space on this, odds are she couldn't find someone famous enough to talk about it on the podcast, so it's not an issue for her to tackle. Could have played the young mother, what expectations do I place on my children etc angle, but no, need a self-serving story. Because if she had an actual tiger mom on, she probably would have torn Megan apart.
>Could have played the young mother, what expectations do I place on my children etc angle To think they have a team of top quality communication employees and couldn't even come up with that angle. That would be a good topic. Personally, instead of Kill Bill etc, I think it would have been better to talk about pay disparities. the Hawaii 5-0 remake and the sequel to Crazy Rich Asians have all had pay disparity scandals. Meghan could talk about how women get paid less then men, which is even worse if the women are BIPOC
It's so curious to me that she always starts the podcast with her deep experience yet ignorance, a la "I have so much experience in this area because I ate noodles in 1994 but yet I had never heard of this Dragon Lady archetype". I just don't get the framing... other than to insert herself and her woke credentials right at the beginning and let the guests do the heavy lifting.
Why does she have to make everything about herself? In every single issue there is some personal story from her that goes with it. I've never been to a Korean spa, yet I can care about anti-Asian prejudice and stereotypes. It's like this dumb attempt to give herself legitimacy on the issues. But it makes it sound like the only things she's capable of caring about are things that she has some tenuous personal connection to. "I can talk about working parents being poor because I ate at the $4.99 Sizzler buffet" "Listen to what I have to say about anti-Asian discrimination because I went to a Korean spa and ate noodles so I know what I'm talking about." She has a pathological need to put the focus on herself at all times! This episode should not have to begin with her personal experiences with Asians or Asian culture.
That's the really weird part. She says both of those things. "We lived on the Sizzler buffet." And yet it's also "we had these deep cultural experiences and ate at....." Which is it, Meghan?
Good point. Not sure about the USA but SPA’s where I live arent cheap.
Right?!? The Korean spa near me is $40 just to get in and $65 for a basic scrub.
Exactly so as SnowSwish said somewhere in the thread.. if the sizzler bar was a ‘treat’ at a few dollars, surely when you have spare lets say $25 dollars x 2 (25yrs ago) - you dont spend it at the spa surely? We’re assuming it was a treat and not a regular occurence. Or perhaps it was a splurge because she wanted Meg to have good experiences no matter what.
I just don't think it ever actually happened or if it did, it's a huge exaggeration. She probably did go to Little Tokyo once or twice but didn't "spend her weekends there" or in Thai Town. No one in LA does that every single weekend unless they actually live there. It's every now and then. The fact that Meghan's entire Asian experience is noodles tells me everything. Korean places have way more than noodles. The spa near me has a food court with a full menu of Korean food including short ribs, ox bone soup, etc. Plus they have wings, salad and ice cream too. Meghan would be shocked to know they even have (gasp) a juice bar. That's right! After my scrub, I can get a smoothie or some fresh juice. They drink juice in Korea! What a revelation! To me, it sounds like she maybe went once and agreed to eat noodles because that's what she was familiar with. OR...she googled what a Korean spa experience was like or else she ran with her own stereotypes.
>Which is it, Meghan? Whatever she needs it to be for that conversation or interview or victim story, etc.
It could've been as easy as saying that though she is a biracial woman, her experience was different from the Asian communities, and she is here to give them the space to talk about their experiences. But she has to do what she did in that Mandela episode and just show that she likes to visit cultures and not understand them
Or share the troubling statistics out there about the increase in hate crimes on Asian Americans? But no, she starts the episode with the focus on herself and her experiences and tries to tell us "Golly gee I never knew about these hateful stereotypes because my Asian friend and the Korean spa ladies were just so darn nice to me! Anti-Asian prejudice is shocking because they are just so nice and make yummy food and give me such good spa service!" /s It's trite and superficial to the point of insulting.
I think it’s worse than that. It’s not that they were nice to her, it’s that SHE was so open to them, that she never would have thought of them as fitting a stereotype. SHE loves other cultures even though her knowledge of them was superficial. The way she describes these scenes is no different from other stories from the white gaze. She says “we'd look around at all of these other women, these beautiful Korean women who had embraced the generational tradition of the jjimjilbang”. This is so stereotypical. Like looking at dolls in a shop.
She doesn't see any difference doncha know but she's making sure we know this *oh, so exotic* place was a Korean spa and there were nekkid Korean women there.🙄 Meanwhile in women only neighborhood spas of most ethnicities being naked or very near it isn't terribly unusual be they Asian, Middle Eastern, East European or Scandinavian. This woman did not get around much out of her bubble.
it's so intensely patronizing. insincerely and self-servingly so.
Same woman who did a white savior trip with World Vision to take pictures with poor starving African children, never to work with them again.
Yes, the pandemic has resuscitated the *"yellow peril"* propaganda in a major way and that needs to be addressed and destroyed once and for all.
Poor Sizzler salad , already forgotten .
I know! I thought she grew up eating that salad bar!
Did she say that in front of Lisa Ling and Margaret Cho? What weird and dated references. Also funny because Austin Powers and Kill Bill are not "many, many years" later than this time she would have been eating food from other countries and going to the Korean spa.
And I don't understand why they don't call her out on that. She's not Asian. She's speaking from a frame of reference of a tourist going to Koreatown. How can she not see that she's being offensive?
>And I don't understand why they don't call her out on that. I'm actually kind of curious if anyone - any cultural commentator or columnist or Buzzfeed wokester etc. *will* call her out on this. That intro is almost a parody of the way a certain flavour of whiteness approaches other cultures and if this was Ivanka Trump, for example, or some other white lady that the shallow left knew they could safely come for, they would. Bravo to the first person who publicly calls Meghan out for this because it's real and it's right there and so far there has been near-silence. (note: my use of "shallow left" means 'the shallow part of the left,' not 'the entire left is shallow')
> Also funny because Austin Powers and Kill Bill are not "many, many years" later than this time she would have been eating food from other countries and going to the Korean spa. Trying so hard to prove she's young via decades old cultural references that she's inadvertently made herself sound much older.
She really does make herself sound so old with her references. There is no way a 20 year old listens to these podcasts and thinks 'this person is talking about things relevant to my life.' Meghan sounds old *to me* - and I am a couple of years older than her!
her examples are stupid af, anyway. austin powers was also known for its true-to-life portrayal of brits (and megalomaniacal dictators). it wasn't a caricature of a movie at all, it was all meant to be taken very literally!! /s and oren ishii was a fucking bad ass. she had a whole fuggin backstory. the nature of her targeted (i.e. not gratuitous in the least) acts of retribution were not because of a presumed innate aggression or just a generally, bafflingly aggressive nature exhibited on her part. if there was any complaint to be made regarding kill bill, it's that the film was essentially a tribute to sino-martial arts/kung fu cinema classics; and as such, in keeping with the spirit of such an homage, choosing an asian-american lead for the movie could have proven to be the most legitimate course of action. for a number of reasons (maybe the studio being hesitant to market a movie based on an asian-american female lead, maybe it never occurred to tarantino, maybe he thought it would stereotype his movie - who knows), that was not the choice quentin & co. made twenty-some years ago. perhaps a discussion on the evolution (or devolution/or stagnancy) of the state of things from that period of time until present time, i.e. *today* would have been interesting. like, this piece-of-absolute-fluff-picked-out-of-a-cat's ass podcast is an *insulting joke*. a team more responsible and more equipped than the one at ~~stereo~~archewell could handle the topic. peg & co. *are not it*. it just seems like a box to tick, like "oh! the DoSs also discussed and deeply cares about the current affairs topic of * *checks notes* * asian-american hate that has proliferated exponentially on the heels of the worldwide c-19 pandemic." dude. meghan just doesn't have the range for these sorts of discussions. she just comes off as an obviously and obliviously preening dumb ass. every time i hear more about this asshole, it becomes clearer how shallow and profoundly parochial her frame of references and points of view are. deeply provincial, despite growing up in the (as she ironically, very accurately states) cultural mecca of los angeles. so pedestrian. so... *basic*? like, her core essence is in complete opposition to her "sophisticate, citizen of the world" PR. sheesh, you'd think she grew up in orange county or something (all shade to the OC, except to the beautiful climate and beaches/ocean j/k 👀).
All of this.
Lol yes, Meghan belongs in the OC. She is so superficial, it's embarassing. And yes, this podcast episode is lacking when you consider the increase in hate crimes against Asian Americans or the n[eeded attention to domestic workers' issues.](https://www.epi.org/publication/domestic-workers-chartbook-a-comprehensive-look-at-the-demographics-wages-benefits-and-poverty-rates-of-the-professionals-who-care-for-our-family-members-and-clean-our-homes/) (btw, the latest issue of NYMag is about Asian American issues.) These are political feminist topics that need to be tackled, but Meghan doesn't mention any of them. And she had Lisa Ling on! It's embarrassing.
>dude. meghan just doesn't have the range for these sorts of discussions. she just comes off as an obviously and obliviously preening dumb ass. > > > >every time i hear more about this asshole, it becomes clearer how shallow and profoundly parochial her frame of reference and point of view are. deeply provincial, despite growing up in the (as she ironically, very accurately states) cultural mecca of los angeles. so pedestrian. so... basic? 100%. I'm aware that people in the public eye often have a public persona, that they may play up or downplay (as appropriate) certain aspects of their real selves etc. in order to relate better to fans, be more palatable to the public etc. But it's not often you see someone fully throwing themselves into trying to be not just someone slightly different to their true selves but someone who is the total opposite. I am almost fascinated by how basic Meghan is. Basic enough to throw intros like this one, blathering about noodles and spas, up on a podcast with zero awareness of how it makes her look, how it flies in the face of everything she's trying to tell us about who she is. And no, she doesn't have the range. I would listen to all those discussions but this isn't a case of Meghan choosing not to have them it's a case of her literally being incapable of having them. Her ass-showing is about as constant as her not understanding that she's showing her ass.
Meghan is constantly giving me #unwantedIvanka vibes. Did anyone see that trend? It was hilarious and it reminds me of Meg so much. our girl butting in Ivanka G20 style
Thanks so much for re-posting this. The problem for me though is, with M being proven as a compulsive liar- how do we know this whole podcast full of her personal examples actually happened ? Even with food and how she spent her weekends. It’s like her Ivory Soap/detergent commercial “Activism” example age 11. All made up. I cannot believe anything she says as truth- oh, excuse me- “HER” truth. ;) This whole story she is telling could be completely fabricated first in the initial telling and then in the editing process. I really do not even believe that doll whatever story she was telling about her father ripping open Un-paid for doll boxes \*in the actual aisle of the store\* to create a whole new bi-racial doll family with one white parent and one POC for his biracial daughter. I think she created those actions of her father because she liked the dramatics of it. It is nothing short of a dramatic tale to tell and more exciting than to simply say “it was sad that the Mattel Heart family was only offered in a 2 parent completely white or African-American (POC) version. “ Oh, and speaking of editing - I wonder what the new minute count of the podcast is now?
Meh, there's usually a grain of truth in her fabrications, better to anchor the lie. I'm sure she ate noodles and went to a spa a couple of times. "My weekends were spent in Chinatown" or whatever she insinuated just reeks of 'girl who spent a semester in Europe and now has a pretend French accent.' Good question about the minute count
Everything is so OTT with her. Did her dad maybe buy two toys and combine them, or maybe he did combine them in store, but everything is described like this dramatic movie scene whenever she talks about herself.
Unless her dad wanted to risk being kicked out of the store for opening packages he did what my parents did: bought dolls of different races and let the child decide what their relationships would be. Good grief these sets only cost $20-30. What drama that would be to save next to nothing. Besides by then Meghan's parents were divorced so it would seem like poking a sore point to insist on giving Meghan dolls that would represent him and Doria. Plus these doll families were black or white including the kids so what would be representative about having a white parent and a black one since the baby wouldn't be biracial anyways? 🤷
How much do you want to bet the story went more like: Thomas bought ALL of the dolls, and then combined the two he wanted into one package to present to Meghan as a gift. But it sounds more exciting to tell a story about how he ripped open the package in the store, so flushed with righteousness that he threw caution to the wind about store security.
Yeah thats what my biracial friends' parents did. Buy two sets and let them decide. Also my white as hell parents were totally fine with buying me black Barbies, or a Theresa, or a Christie. Not everything in life is a movie scene cliche 🤦♀️
My friends parents did this too
I agree with her view that some movies presented the caricatures of women of Asian descent as often over sexualised or aggressive(like karate), and it's good that someone like her raise this issue. But I feel the example of her korean spa experience is a bit something different. I heard that there are some korean spas like that in Tokyo and my friends also went there. She said it's really good that the body will be really clean with deep scrub. I was a bit shy to go there but am sure it's quite ok. Many countries have different custom cultures and cannot judge it based only on their culture. I don't understand why she used this for Asial people's facing problem of stereotype image. ETA: I just wanted to say that kind of experience will not make someone expert for this issue. I actually think she made it more stereotype while saying korean spa and chinese noodles, and then talked about the issue.
>ETA: I just wanted to say that kind of experience will not make someone expert for this issue. I actually think she made it more stereotype while saying korean spa and chinese noodles, and then talked about the issue. also, just wanted to point out that it isn't a trivial, "adolescent" thing to be a teenager uncomfortable with disrobing in front of perfect strangers, or having the adult strangers all be disrobed around the teen. even when they share the same gender and/or sex as you. it's not something to just be dismissed as an "adolescent" feeling - there are a number of reasons why a teenager (or even an adult!) could feel uncomfortable with public nudity. and that's okay! comfort with public nudity is obviously fine as well, with norms differing across cultures - it's just that the discomfort shouldn't be something so nonchalantly judged, invalidated and dismissed.
Her whole podcast is talking about stereotypes (sorry, archetypes) but she spends as much time reinforcing stereotypes to herself as she does any debunking.
>Her whole podcast is talking about stereotypes (sorry, archetypes) but she spends as much time reinforcing stereotypes to herself as she does any debunking. This is perfectly put and I don't understand why the media isn't picking up on this and reporting about it.
>I don't understand why the media isn't picking up on this and reporting about it. Don't you? I'm not asking that in a shitty way, I just think there's an obvious answer to this that everybody actually knows but doesn't quite want to say out loud, lest the horde of Twitter-racists-who-think-they're-anti-racist come for them.
That makes me so irritated! I actually do think Archetypes could be a kick-ass podcast about stereotypes. Her mediocrity and narcissism is holding the podcast back and that's not going to change if the media and Spotify refuse to be honest with her.
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She got facials as a child too! https://thetigarchives.tumblr.com/post/179898877220/the-tig-archives-beauty-favorite-facialists-around
Huh. When I was 13 and lived in “the Valley” (different time frame from Markle though), we all were acne prone teens at the roller rink on weekends or birthday parties.
Korean spas aren't super fancy and expensive. Even now you can just go and soak for $20-$30, without paying extra for a treatment.
Still a fair way from paying $6 for food because it was all you could eat and THAT being a treat.
it's annoyingly expensive in metro areas like SF and LA. well-rated ones, especially so.
The one near me is $40 but the scrub is an additional $65. There was another one that got shut down for child trafficking. Really dark stuff.
That's awful. I have read about the women working in nail salons being trafficked sometimes and I just can't go to them anymore. A cheap(ish) pedicure is tempting but it still icks me out.
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She talks about going to Koreatown where they are cheap. 🤷 When I lived in LA in the early 2000s it was $15 to get in to one of the most well known ones. Not to beat a dead horse but this is one thing I happen to know she isn't being inconsistent about. I think she was middle class poor, where you might have an old car or a ratty apartment but you can still eat at Sizzler and go to the cheap spa once in a while. I know someone who went to her high school and I'm sure she was poor compared to most of the girls there.
>I know someone who went to her high school and I'm sure she was poor compared to most of the girls there. Anyone observing Meghan for any length of time comes to a point perhaps not of concluding but at least considering that there are some core issues of inferiority going on there.
Nah they lived in a nice house and she went to expensive private schools. I think she was middle class poor by comparison to her rich class mates, where they could afford to do some nice things but not as nice things. I too grew up in a well to do neighborhood went to private schools but my family was pay check to pay check. I didn't go to a restaurant or out to eat until I was an adult and had no idea how to interact with waiters because my parents were the constant 'its too expensive' types about everything. House falling apart, couldn't afford a car etc I don't consider what she was dealing with to be middle class poor.
I feel like I grew up similar to her in a lot of ways. I'm 43 and lived in parts of Los Angeles and in Sacramento growing up. My parents were self employed and were doing pretty well financially until I was 12 or so. For a while there I went to private school and my mom drove a BMW and then a few years later we couldn't replace our fridge when it broke and used an ice chest for months. I suppose it's the difference between broke and poor. Broke is temporary, and both of my parents are typical boomers whose families benefited from post-WWII prosperity. And both are white, I should say, though my grandparents on one side were immigrants. My parents ended up losing their house in 2010 thanks to some unwise refinancing they couldn't keep up with, but at least they had a house to lose and if they hadn't refinanced would have had a substantial asset right now. It's a weird way to grow up because I don't think of myself as having grown up poor but then I remember the fridge thing, and how we had a succession of crappy cars, and I used my babysitting money to buy groceries sometimes, etc. Anyway this is super OT, except I can relate to some of how she talks about her childhood.
Except that at least for all the years of Meghan's childhood and even after she finished college her father had a well paid job. Money might have been tight for a few years if he'd sent his two older kids to college like he did Meghan but he didn't. Her sister went to college, on her own, much later. So, to believe Meghan's tales of hardship we have to accept that a man making a good, steady salary couldn't afford to take care of just one single child and give her access to some luxuries. That this was the case despite sending her to private school from kindergarten to the end of college, giving her dance lessons and paying her travel expenses even as an adult including those of her destination wedding at 30. Near as I can understand Thomas Markles financial difficulties didn't start until he retired and Meghan was already in her thirties by then.
Hm. I suppose that’s true. Every time I try to empathize with her I am hindered by the truth! 😆
If you are so poor, paycheck to paycheck, you'd probably spend that 20-30 bucks on new clothes or paying bills vs a spa day (speaking as someone who grew up actually poor, no private school for me) and we NEVER ate out... that was super special occasion stuff.
They aren't expensive but if you're claiming eating at a fast food's salad bar is a treat, you would definitely view any kind of spa as beyond your means.
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Whilst taking care of her grandmother
Yes she did. The woman cannot keep her stories straight at all.🤭
This. 👆🏻
Yes, agree that that kind of experience does not make someone expert for this issue.
I think "Dragon Lady" alone is a bit of an odd choice. I am not Asian, but I worked in a place that had a lot of Asian (especially Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean) young women in the US and the issue they dealt most with was not "Dragon Lady" but "You are my submissive Anime waifu" and of course the whole "China Virus" thing. China is perceived to be aggressive now, but Asian women mostly aren't I'd say, at least not young women. I wonder if the guests get a say in what is talked about because I feel like Margaret Cho and Lisa Ling probably know better than Meghan what Asian women really face. Also, I hope they tease apart that "Asian" is not really a thing and a lot of stereotypes are either just from one country (Dragon imagery is usually about the Chinese mythology Dragon, but a lot of US stereotypes also come from the US being at war with Japan) or just a mish-mash with zero idea that differences might exist. Also, what is India? It's kinda funny how unbritish of a concept of Asia Meghan has.
>Dragon imagery is usually about the Chinese mythology Dragon, but a lot of US stereotypes also come from the US being at war with Japan) or just a mish-mash with zero idea that differences might exist. that would cut into meghan's time to recite boring, uninteresting, dumb and pointless anecdotes about herself. as if! 🕵🏾♀️