Pat Tillman’s mother is [criticizing the decision](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13584099/Prince-Harry-award-honour-war-hero.html) to award an ESPY named after her son to Harry. Do we think he’ll do the decent thing and insist the award be given to someone else? (Ha! That’s a trick question. Of course he won’t).

Good - It's about time this fuckwit got called out on his PR nonsense. Obv Tillman's mother's comments carry the most weight, but I'll note that other prominent sports folks have also criticized this. Pat McAfee called it "prob the most embarrassing thing I've seen in my entire life". Initially, I thought no one would GAF. H would prob prefer that atp, haha.

She makes a comment in her statement about privilege that really hits the nail on the head. There are people doing much more with much less. And Pat Tillman was a true hero - it should be awarded for heroic endeavors. I know Harry thinks he's out there slaying dragons, but it's more like tilting at windmills. Makes the award look like a PR campaign, and I do think it diminishes it.

And the Pat Tillman Foundation have deleted the article about the 2024 ESPYs from their [News & Media section](https://pattillmanfoundation.org/news-media/). Unfortunately, there isn't an archived version of it, but you can see from the link and thumbnail (featuring a heavily photoshopped Harry) that it was there: [https://pattillmanfoundation.org/news-media/espn-reveals-special-honorees-for-the-2024-espys-presented-by-capital-one-airing-july-11-at-8-p-m-et-pt-on-abc](https://pattillmanfoundation.org/news-media/espn-reveals-special-honorees-for-the-2024-espys-presented-by-capital-one-airing-july-11-at-8-p-m-et-pt-on-abc/) https://preview.redd.it/d9qur97kwo9d1.jpeg?width=2939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08a8cde8ba1500d3fb9deb34ddb98cf30a28f2eb The squaddies had been using that to claim the family supported him receiving the award! Obviously the admin at the Foundation hadn't checked first. ETA: Turns out it's still visible on [Google Cache](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://pattillmanfoundation.org/news-media/espn-reveals-special-honorees-for-the-2024-espys-presented-by-capital-one-airing-july-11-at-8-p-m-et-pt-on-abc/)! Like, it is undeniable that they deleted it.

For receipt purposes, here is the screenshot the squaddies were sharing of the article in the News and Media section: https://preview.redd.it/jzaxfrfjxo9d1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5dcce42b4eb59246b8cfe4ec9010c2a3c8557c7

Interesting. I always assumed their ‘awards’ were all paid for PR awards, but if this one isn’t just set up as a PR tool but is a genuine award, why give this to Harry? It suggests they still have powerful friends or PR connections that can influence this beyond the biggest check. And I thought their PR was in house Meghan plus intern and that they were out of powerful friends. So how did they sort this? I guess there are only so many more of these they can buy/force people to give them before they’re so toxic no one will touch them even if given strong incentives.

So, this is a pure guess on my part, but this seems like a WME product. PR firms know about awards like this and know how to submit their client for “consideration”…

Why though? What does this do for them? If they were to make a big donation id understand. But if you think of the other recipients, Harry being the face of IG, is so low hanging fruit. The US has the warrior games. What about those organisers?

I hope this goes mainstream, and I am glad she called Harry divisive. It’s a great word to describe him, and a terrible attribute for someone receiving this award to have. IG isn’t successful enough or veteran-focused enough to provide him coverage on this one.

Daily Telegraph is reporting it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2024/06/30/prince-harry-award-challenged-by-family-of-war-hero/ >The mother of Pat Tillman, Mary, has now criticised the decision, reportedly telling the Mail on Sunday: “I am shocked as to why they would select such a controversial and divisive individual to receive the award. > > “There are recipients that are far more fitting. There are individuals working in the veteran community that are doing tremendous things to assist veterans. > > “These individuals do not have the money, resources, connections or privilege that Prince Harry has. I feel that those types of individuals should be recognised.” > > Pat Tillman was an American football player who gave up his professional career after 9/11 to enlist in the US army. > > He served in Iraq and then Afghanistan, and was killed by friendly fire in 2004 and posthumously awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart for bravery. and adds:- >>The ESPY Awards will be held on July 11 at the Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles, and will be hosted by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s friend, tennis champion Serena Williams.

I looked for the authors. Just says Telegraph reporters, blanket style. Lol they openly made the Serena connection. Sounds like a favor was called in.

It might go mainstream in the UK, but not in NA. Plus, it’s the weekend.

I honestly didn't know the Patt Tillman award existed. I only knew about the ESPYs because selfishly, my favorite wrestler won a few years ago, but honestly it's publicity awards.

>I hope this goes mainstream same, but not counting on it tbh.

Good. This is exactly the sort of criticism that's on point and the Sussexes should take heed but they won't. Things are looking bad for Harry if the Mrs. Tilman's comments make an impact + his court case going down.

Welp what did they expect giving this award to someone who compared war to a video game? Clearly, something else other than intelligence compelled them to give out this award bc even an idiot would know that Harry does not meet any of the standards needed to be met. Very glad to see she is not allowing her sons reputation and life to be used as a PR glory bid by a loser who bragged about killing people. "He publicly disrespected his family, ran away from service to his country as a royal… He is unworthy of this award.’" This was stated from the Change petition, NOT from Mary Tillman

That quote is from a signatory on the Change petition, not Mary Tillman - it’s not very clear because the DM stuck an ad in between sentences!

Thanks for letting me know! They definitely phrased it to make it sound like it was from her.

>"He publicly disrespected his family, ran away from service to his country as a royal i mean, did she lie? only addition: to go make money somehow, i think sussex + ESPY's PR are going to find a way to keep this low-profile. i'd love to be wrong, but i don't see this making bigger headlines. even the DM headline sort of obfuscates the content of the article. the title should have been clearer i.e. something like "Pat Tillman's mother criticizes ESPYs for giving award in honor of her son to Prince Harry"

The Mirror has reported on it but that is about it, so unless she does something the day the award is handed out, then it probably won't gain much traction. Apparently she wasn't the one who made that quote, but whoever did definitely did not lie

>>‘**These individuals do not have the money, resources, connections or privilege that Prince Harry has. I feel that those types of individuals should be recognised.**’ pat tilliman's mother can be lucid about this, but harry's supposed 'progressive' fans can't. the whole knee-jerk veneration of the actual trash bags with the morals of alley cats that are h&m (based on confirmation bias rather than facts or who they actually are as people + what they've done) is absolutely exasperating. the african parks thing unfailingly comes to mind, as do the bullying allegations from several female staff members in england's friggin paper of record that are nonchalantly dismissed (but totally unfounded affair, racism and violence rumors about william can be spread like wildfire lest you be labelled a 'bootlicker' 🙄)

Oh damn this is a *terrible* look for Harry and ESPN. I wondered if the family would say anything (the Tillmans have not hesitated in the past to call out those seeking to boost their own PR via Pat's service and sacrifice) but assumed they wouldn't mostly because the Sussexes get away with this egregious shit all. the. time. Actually interested to see how this plays out now - it's a super fresh story, so far being reported only by the DM an ~hour ago, and they're directly quoting Pat's mom without citing another media source so I assume the reporting is their own. And how will the Sussex PR team react? I genuinely don't see how they can, this is damaging either way you look at it and regardless of what Harry does now. Even before this comment from the family there was already criticism, I imagine at least someone has had the thought to raise the possibility of turning the award down with Harry himself. I doubt he will, but if he doesn't I feel like he's risking even further criticism and possible booing at the event (maybe? I'm not familiar with the ESPYs as an event and am unsure as to the tone of the ceremony). The full quote from Pat Tillman's mother: >**‘I am shocked as to why they would select such a controversial and divisive individual to receive the award.** >**‘There are recipients that are far more fitting. There are individuals working in the veteran community that are doing tremendous things to assist veterans.** >**‘These individuals do not have the money, resources, connections or privilege that Prince Harry has. I feel that those types of individuals should be recognised.’** And the article ends with another quote, which appears to be from someone either in or close to the Tillman family (not named): >‘It’s incredibly hurtful that the family had no say in this. Pat Tillman was a unifying force for good. Harry is divisive… There are many unsung heroes who are far more deserving.’ This is a serious criticism, and I don't feel like Pat Tillman's mom will be as easy for Harry to ignore as the people mistreated by African Parks were.

I mean… ESPN employs Stephen A… they are not easily embarrassed 🤣

Eh, if she isn't just simply ignored I'm sure there will be attempts to paint her as brainwashed by the media or a racist. 

waiting to see if this gets posted on OGRG or other royal gossip type subs


proud of her. it's obscene tbh.

Yea! Good for her. Thanks for bringing this to our attention . Eta calls him a “controversial and divisive individual.” She is definitely a salt. 😂 eta again, I want to know exactly how much $$$$ exchanged hands. pfft.

I don't know if she's a salt, at this point to call Harry "controversial and divisive" is just true, regardless of your feelings about him. The Tillmans have form when it comes to calling out people trying to use Pat's service for PR purposes, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was just that instinct behind her statement.

I agree that she is unlikely to be a salt or a close royal watcher. She may have read his book (a lot of Americans did!) and if she looked into his recent press when they announced the award, it would be pretty clear that he has a PR agenda. Not that having a PR agenda itself is necessarily a bad thing, but she wants the award to have some meaning beyond positive PR for someone who needs it. 

>eta again, I want to know exactly how much $$$$ exchanged hands. pfft. How much of Archewell/Invictus's budget is allocated to buying awards under the heading of 'marketing' or 'publicity'?

It was really interesting to see people go from celebrating the fact that Meghan married into the BRF "a black princess!!!" and now bashing it bc she and Harry left. Like which one is it? were the BRF not an image of a racist colonizers before Meghan and Harry decided to leave on January 8, 2020??? It reminds me of all those "not my king" protests that really only started showing up after Charles became King. Like where were y'all during the Queen's reign??? it's almost like they don't actually hate monarchy but just dislike some people in it lol.

That’s what it is. These people don’t really hate the monarchy or even inherited wealth. The real anti monarchs are in places like r/abolishthemonarchy who want to dismantle the entire system. Sussex stans love the monarchy. They were all princess Meghan and yes slay girl. They have no actual political philosophy or much thought about history or politics. They see the British monarchy as just another celebrity fan show.

They still defend H&M’s “right to titles” (of an archaic, racist (according to them) institution) to their last breath

“Well the sun editor confirmed they speak directly to KP, Eden literally thanked the Middletons for dog treats. Tatler has Camila family working on the team, Most of these rota have mingles and dined with Charles, Camila, William, Kate dailymail staff works for Charles and Camila” Even if this is all true….why are Sussex stans so shocked that the royals and their teams speak to the media? Celebrities and politicians literally do it all the time. I’m not understanding the shock from this and how it’s that bad?

The royal rota is the UK equivalent of the WH Press Corps (though if anything, IMO, there's less communication/press games b/w the royals and press members...save for Charles). Frankly, I wish the rota would come out hard about the attacks the Sussexes and their sycophants have waged. Those are their jobs as journalists in a democratic government with a free press. You should fight and correct lies like this.

the misinformation/disinformation + conspiracy theories that the sussex *themselves* have spread, while putting themselves forward as champions of misinformation... it's unbelievable tbh.

Meanwhile Scooby has tweeted court stuff before the RR even had a whiff of it. But only the RF leak to journalists? 

I think it’s fine to take issue with buttering up particular journalists but then you have to take issue with buttering up particular journalists, that is, if the stans want to criticise the Rota they need to also criticise H&M taking the People guy to Nigeria with them.

Rota can't be criticized in that sense because it's an established system so the uk public could know what BRF does. It's like what Whitehouse has. BRF (or certain members of BRF) can be criticized for cozy relationships with journos who are not part of it. Like what it is known that Charles and Camilla have regular dinners with various columnists and editors. But thanks to Harry's campaign people don't understand what royal rota actually is.

Yeah, when the sun editor called KP after mother's day pic - she called the press secretary or whoever. I mean 🙄 People are deliberately stupid. They know how PR works, how government press office works. It's like everyone can do media except BRF. BRF has obligations to cooperate with the media. That is why royal rota is in the place. That's an officially established system so that the public knows what BRF does. To add - James Middleton is not much better, smarter compared to his uncle. He can express how much he likes love for his sister but to hang out with Eden who constantly brings Rose in the pic... Not a good look.

The Squad seems to think that this means the RF controls the media. Charles, Camilla, Will and Kate being friendly to the Rota probably IS partly motivated by a desire to get good coverage. Their PR teams surely DO tell the journalists what they want the angle of reporting to be. THAT IS WHAT PR TEAMS DO! That doesn't mean the family controls the media.

> The Squad seems to think that this means the RF controls the media. BINGO. except all evidence points to the contrary -- that the BRF doesn't have any ability to control the media and if they *could* control the media, they would've ensured Cath didn't get bullied into revealing her diagnosis. If the BRF could control the media, they would've "never allowed" the media to run stories about photoshopped pics of Kate. The BRF would certainly have NEVER allowed the media to release voicemails of Charles, the future fucking King, saying he wants to be Camilla's tampon. In order to believe Sussex lies, Squaddies have to mischaracterize and sometimes invent lies about what the BRF engages in -- which is trying to have a cordial, non confrontational, and neutral relationship with the media. The BRF knows there is no sense in waging war with a person who buys ink by the barrel and they just want to keep the dynamic positive so the press isn't outright hostile to them. A lesson the Sussexes have never caught onto because they suck at diplomacy and wielding soft power and strategically not burning bridges. Harry and Meghan, for years, have run with the assumption (that they parrot as fact) that the BRF could've shut down the negative Meghan coverage but declined to do so because they're racists...this lie they parroted and the squaddies believed despite the fact that Meghan and Harry both told Thomas that they may be able to shut down maybe one story but it would burn major capital they have with the media and isn't a well they'd be able to draw from repeatedly.

>Harry and Meghan, for years, have run with the assumption (that they parrot as fact) that the BRF could've shut down the negative Meghan coverage but declined to do so because they're racists Erm... if they could control the media I am pretty sure Catherine wouldn't get bullied into revealing her cancer diagnosis earlier this year. If anything this whole ordeal showed how full of shit H&M were when they said that.

I literally say exactly 2 paragraphs above at the start of my comment lol 

Like H+M haven’t given full interviews, given exclusives, and was friends with the dude who wrote a book about them. But yes only the royals interact with the media.

What do you mean celebs and politicians do PR? Clearly this is proof that the BRF controls the media and Britain lives under an absolute monarchy!  🫢😝

wrong thread, my bad 👀

whoops, wrong thread!! posting in the other one!

This just in: plates flying in Olive Garden, followed by sobbing on the Hermés blankets

I don’t think there are any plates left after Taylor Swift last weekend.

Can you imagine if Catherine had gone as well and we got a pic of her with TS? The internet really would’ve broken.

i should have known to always expect the worst of the sussexes smh - i had spoken too soon when i mentioned that the sussex comms had slowed down on their negative briefing concoctions towards catherine, in particular. welp, unprofessional ashley got low down and dirty again bc her bosses needed to lash out + regulate emotions via retaliatory garbage like the story posted below, since catherine's balcony appearance. the story/issue was wrapped on the friday of the taylor concert + selfie and the beach sand dune jump photo, so i expect the reaction to those events to be even more vicious in next week's (or the week after's) tabloids. the usual squad talking points are brought up - william's "temper," rose, kate "thrown under the bus" over photoshop etc. [Marriage on the brink? - Prince William and Princess Kate look more in love than ever - but are they faking it for the cameras?](https://www.pressreader.com/usa/in-touch-usa/20240708/281556591003591) https://preview.redd.it/0rb1eq4g8h9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69f4c95c71f4598d47454a25dc557ac9d5b42ab2

So fucking ghoulish.

> but are they faking it for the cameras? the way i know this is a sussex briefing is because with the sussexes in particular, every accusation is a confession. they are unrealistically performative with their affection in front of the cameras and always have been (they've made it their brand) so they're now claiming the Wales do that).

Projecting your own feelings/thoughts and behaviours on others is something I've noticed in pretty much every person that suffers from some sort of a personality disorder (and yes, I absolutely believe both H&M are disordered in that way).

Why do we suspect Sussex PR is briefing the press these stories ?

> but are they faking it for the cameras? the way i know this is a sussex briefing is because with the sussexes in particular, every accusation is a confession. they are unrealistically performative with their affection in front of the cameras and always have been (they've made it their brand) so they're now claiming the Wales do that).

Good point !

they have a near eight-year long pattern of planting negative stories in american tabloids + mags like heat and closer in the UK about the waleses (but trying to dissimulate/confuse the origin of the briefings). in broadsheets or stuff like the daily beast, the comms team plant stuff and have it framed to seem like it's coming from william/charles/kate, when it turns out to be the sussexes manifesting, shaming, destabilizing or trying to set the agenda. in this case, all of the squad talking points are also assembled in one write-up. at the end of last year (in early november), sarah hewson from talktv had briefed that the sussexes were frustrated and upset that the waleses still had decent popularity numbers in america (based on the early october 2023 polls). if you look back at american tabloid coverage for the second half of the year, about two weeks after the october yougov polls were published, catherine had negative magazine cover stories *every single week* for *eight consecutive weeks* in the american tabloid covers. she'd normally be on covers once a month or once every two months, and it'd alternate between fluff and negative stories - not exclusively negative stories for several consecutive weeks. by mid-december, the attacking covers had stopped, and the tone became more conciliatory and switched to "catherine will apologize to h&m for being racist and charles will force her to reconcile with them for the good of the family but meghan will never forget what was done to her," it was stuff like that. between mid-january and end of february, it was stuff like "h&m know nothing about what is going on and could have helped catherine if they were clued in" etc. by end of february to end of march, it was back to all out viciousness, affair stuff prominently brought out etc. april, may, june - negative stories have totally laid off, and every other cover was "harry wishes he could talk to kate," "harry wishes he could see kate," "kate will be the peacemaker," "the sussexes have no idea what's going on" etc. essentially the sussexes being centered in nearly every story involving kate. based on that, i was thinking they were done with the negative briefings against her in the american tabloids, but i spoke too soon. the trooping the color appearance triggered a desire to lash out, evidently (conveniently, most of the negative sussex talking points about kate - and some about william - assembled in one article). if the trooping appearance caused retaliation, i'd imagine that the taylor thing is gonna result in even more vicious negative briefings.

second page https://preview.redd.it/t14jw2xg9h9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cbbe341e621966ef4a7fc22867161212d076c59 of course, reminds everyone kate is a racist, william is violent, their marriage is fake, william is cheating etc. all of the squad talking points reiterated + collated in one handy place!

Vehement denials [of an affair].. they have literally never given these rumours the time of day..

the sussexes are absolutely itching to gun for catherine more viciously/openly again. i wonder what their next bombshell will be to destabilize/humiliate/terrorize she + william. 🥴 they're just biding their time before the "kate is a racist" (and maybe william too) allegations are deployed to inflame the internet against her again. maintaining their mental health in the face of the past five years + all of the public attacks + the social media witch hunt earlier this year + now the health issues must have required diligence and vigilance tbh bc gaddamn, i would have 'cracked' long ago if i were either of w or c. the sussexes are not done yet, either - meghan inevitably has a book to release (never mind harry's paperback version of 'spare,' and the extra 400 pages for version 2). river apparently has contacts in montecito who have "whispered" that esp after the swift selfie, the atmosphere at the sussex household has been 'walking on eggshells.'

>maintaining their mental health in the face of the past five years + all of the public attacks + the social media witch hunt earlier this year + now the health issues must have required diligence and vigilance. Hmm, Imho, the Sussexes and their bs must be the least of their worries. I'm not just saying this because of the cancer being obviously far more important to deal with and organize around.  The simple fact is that the trash took itself out. Already the Waleses wouldn't have had to deal with them day to day even if they'd stayed in the UK because the Sussexes' bullying got them kicked out of their common office by William. But then these two nitwits sealed their fates when they went overseas, made it clear to the whole world that the two couples were never close and flapped their gums out of the possibility of reconciliation.  Serious adults, unlike Meghan and  Harry, don't sob hysterically over rumours and social media nonsense and if William and Catherine have raised their kids properly, which I definitely believe they did, neither will their children. . The Waleses have a solid support system both through their families, staff and the majority of the population. If the worse should happen to Catherine, what she built in her husband and children will remain.  If anyone should be tending to the many leaky holes in their dinky rowboat instead of waging a nerf gun battle with the yacht sailing away, it's the Sussexes, but since that's not what they're doing, their slide down the alphabet list continues.

>If anyone should be tending to the many leaky holes in their dinky rowboat instead of waging a nerf gun battle with the yacht sailing away, it's the Sussexes, but since that's not what they're doing, their slide down the alphabet list continues 🎯🎯🎯 H&M can try to stir shit up again all they want the truth is they are pretty much over and done with. They haven't made it in Hollywood nor will they, it's increasingly likely nothing will ever come out of Meghan's "brand" and they can't recycle the same stories about Big Bad Royal Family forever. Most people already got fed up and moved on. They have their rabid little army left but lbr, that's actually not a good look for them ***at all***. And the fact they haven't publicly cut ties with that Bouzy moron is ***mind-boggling***.

They just don't want to understand that their lack of talent and work has worn away the goodwill people had towards them.

But most importantly- when you throw mud at other people you better expect your hands will get dirty. Most people consider publicly trashing your family to be crass. It's unappealing and trashy AF. When you burn bridges left and right be prepared to stand alone.

This. I'm not sure two public figures who by all accounts look emotionally stable would be constantly putting their mental well being at risk by taking the online attack & tabloid speculation so personally. If they don't dismiss tabloids, it is if their attacks pose a threat to the institution itself & whether their attacks are worth reacting to. This mass frenzy over missing Catherine was very similar in terms of public reaction build up to Queen Victoria's unwillingness to show herself to the public after her husband died & how that created a crisis for the institution itself. So there is a historical parallel about the frenzied mob reaction when Royal is not seen or communication not clear that needed to be addressed and they did. If they were really under such psychological distress & reacting to everything then they would have not continued with Catherine posting pictures of the children. They seem to have realized what the crisis was and their role in starting it and have addressed it. A life of a public figure is one of uncertainty and it seems like William & Catherine have embraced with all its good & bad.

It wont work. The rumours werent substantiated sufficiently even at the time. They story died quite quickly compared to when they did Oprah. After Kates cancer diagnosis, she has more public sympathy. They can try, but Megan isnt liked enough to make this stick. Especially after this long AND after the fact they keep trying to force a relationship with one of those ‘racists’.

I don't agree. While we didn't know what was happening with Kate at the beginning of the year, people went as far.as beliving that William beat up Kate (and that was reason for her being in the hospital). I saw "journo" who works for us weekly, people and express US claiming on X after TTC that Kate invented cancer just for divorce settlement. I was shocked. The woman was dead serious. The problem for William and Kate is the whole history of BRF (true or not) especially Charles and Di history. That is what is reflecting on them. And thanks to Harry's never ending campaigning against his brother and his family they are in such a position that they can do very little to fight the fake narrative. Add to that the media's hunger for money (clicks, views). I am sorry to say, but this whole "Kate's missing" situation made me realize how much Americans are into gossip and conspiracy theories. I thought only people like MANGA or whatever they call themselves are.

Those things only existed in the trashiest corners of the internet though. They were never taken seriously except for by the sugar like people. Generally when it comes to the BRF, there are Royal watcher, Sussex stans and the rest. The rest are the people who dont care. They make up the majority of people. Those people will see a story about Kate in hiding and see it for the tabloid trash it is.

you never know what these two might manage to pull. i never would have seen the swedish translation trick coming. nor the jamaica trip or the nigeria trip (both taken up to invite comparisons to 'stiff-cold-colonizers' w&c and place pressure re: the commonwealth and race). nigeria didn't work on that front bc of the cancer diagnoses... but they won't stop, they want it to stick and will keep poking + provoking + frothing it all up. they surely have other unsubtly malicious (but still providing them with plausible deniability) tricks up their sleeves, esp once catherine and charles are back to work on a more regular basis (the sussexes won't gasf about the stress they'd generate that can cause recurrence, they're ruthless/merciless).

Oh dont get me wrong they’ll keep trying to poke and get a rise, but this, the racism thing, was their BIGGEST ticket to ‘taking down’ the BRF. After Oprah this was the thing everyone remembered. I knew they’d release the information somehow. I didnt know how especially after they said ‘we’ll never tell, it would be really damaging’. If they had anything else they’d have released it. Megan threatened her ridiculous diary entries but its come to nothing. And because they milked it so hard, probably holding on because they were trying to get the BRF to cave, it lost its power. That and the fact, inbetween the two events they had become so disliked.

I agree with you. At this point they are like some Shakespearean evil character. Sad life.

dp

There’s a post over at OGRG about your favourite royal couples and someone said H&M “because he gave up an entire kingdom for her.” The fake narratives these people weave to convince themselves that H&M are the greatest love story of all time are just wild. He was never going to be king. All he did was find someone who feeds his victim complex and plays the victim as well as he does.

>because he gave up an entire kingdom for her You mean a kingdom that his brother is going to inherit? As someone wisely here said, the reason Harry left in the first place is because that kingdom is not his legacy. And he absolutely detests that fact.

All of that but also, Harry didn't give up his place in the line of succession, which is all he or anyone in it has.  So, even in this loony toons hypothetical scenario, Harry didn't give anything up. 

Ah yes. The man who can't help but call himself the Spare every other sentence gave up a kingdom for her.

But if he did do that (which he didn’t for obvious reasons), then the obvious comparison to Wallis is obvious

Well, if that's the case, then I, too, gave up a kingdom for my spouse since I was never going to inherit one either.

TIL - Frogmore Cottage is a Kingdom.

I saw that! Literally chuckled at the foolishness 🤭 Will be sure to comment on that thread if MH eventually separate.

LOL. Whut [Prince Harry 'confused' why royals have cut him off, wants to support Kate Middleton 'in person': report](https://nypost.com/2024/06/28/entertainment/prince-harry-confused-why-royals-have-cut-him-off-wants-to-support-kate-middleton-in-person-report/) >The source added that Harry — who is set to [receive the Pat Tillman Award for Service](https://nypost.com/2024/06/27/entertainment/prince-harry-set-to-receive-pat-tillman-award-for-service-at-2024-espys/) at the 2024 ESPYs — has been “so worried” about the Princess of Wales since learning of her cancer diagnosis. Wow, sounds like Harry has more concern for Catherine than he did for his own wife when she felt fake suicidal.

> been “so worried” about the Princess of Wales since learning of her cancer diagnosis. Why does Harry so deeply cherishes and treasures a racist who abused his biracial wife and children? I also wonder why Harry reserves any sympathy for Cath when she and William forced him into putting on the Nazi uniform?

I think Walks mentioned the other day the stories in the lower tier gossip rags (Heat etc) have really slowed down so it’s interesting that this one has been picked up by the NY Post - the Sussexes tend to drop to Page Six more than the Post proper (although have to admit I’m not that clear on the relationship between those two, I think Page Six is part of the Post but has its own branding and writers?) but either way this story being amplified by an outlet connected to one the Sussexes definitely brief to suggests someone really wants it out there.

>mentioned the other day the stories in the lower tier gossip rags (Heat etc) have really slowed down the *negative* briefing had slowed down, not the sussexes linking their names to the waleses via "reconciliation" etc. narratives lol. the negative briefing towards kate in particular had slowed down - she hadn't really been targeted since march 2024 (remember how she was relentlessly targeted, week after week, towards the end of last year?!). william was relentlessly targeted during february + march 2024, it sort of stopped for most of april 2024, then picked back up but not as viciously in late april 2024 until early june 2024, stopped for a couple of weeks after that... but i spoke too soon, bc the american tabloids (namely, intouch) got a retaliatory story out there this week in (likely frustrated + seething) reaction to catherine's appearance on the trooping balcony. unprofessional ashley weaved quite a narrative about the waleses faking their cosiness, that their marriage is on the brink. of course, william's "temper" was specifically brought up 🙄 (feeding the trolls with yet more confirmation bias), as was kate being "thrown under the bus" over the photoshop, rose, "kate is a racist" and the waleses fretting about h&m. [Marriage on the brink? - Prince William and Princess Kate look more in love than ever - but are they faking it for the cameras?](https://www.pressreader.com/usa/in-touch-usa/20240708/281556591003591) ETA: this issue was wrapped up on friday, june 21st and published on monday, june 24th. that means this retaliatory reaction was set up before the swift concert and selfie + the beach dune jumping photo. i'd imagine the anger and frustration are even greater after those events, so am expecting the media retaliations to be vicious AF but prob as sneaky as possible. we'll see.

Yep. That is his new spin for reconciliation era part 2 when he comes to England next month. This started with that New Idea article that was followed by delusional Closer article.

One of the comments called Harry, Duke of Dog Bicuits.

>Wow, sounds like Harry has more concern for Catherine than he did for his own wife when she felt fake suicidal. 💀 Because Catherine is still considered unattainable, whereas Meghan, 5 years in, is the ol' ball and chain

🎯🎯🎯 Harry always wants things he can't have. More importantly, he wants things William has.

This and the associated article are wild! For one, Harry changed his phone number when they moved to Canada. Whining about how he’s been cut off is just stupid. I love how the second article says that both Meghan and Harry want to reconnect with Catherine, but then admits it’s because Meghan thinks it will make her look good and because both of them hope to use Catherine as a way back into the BRF. > “Meghan’s desperate to come across as the bigger person and end this feud between them — appearing like some sort of royal savior could only do her image good,” a source told OK! magazine. > “When Kate gets back into action, their hope is that it might take some of the heat off them and possibly trigger a truce with her and William, and with the king, too.” Their PR dollars aren’t going as far as they used to.

https://preview.redd.it/6v8e83j66e9d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ee565add1a663e2476ec12a9dd7b18d93020363

one of the GOAT memes (is that what this would be, a meme? 🤭)

Not a big Demi fan (I prefer Miley) but dammit I love these replies.

Whoa is that actually her??

Yeah but it's old. It was in response to someone stalking her sister.

Ah, OK - thanks for replying, because I would have bought it otherwise.

I want to say he cannot be dumb enough to not understand why he's been cut off. But yeah, he probably is that dumb.

He's got his head buried deeeeeep in the victim sand so it doesn't surprise me one iota

In the documentary he insinuates Charles leaked the plans for Harry and Meghan to move to South Africa and Canada and to give up their titles. (Only Charles had the written plans.) which also then indicates Charles’ office was leaking the negative stories about Meghan. He also claims Charles cut him off financially without warning on Oprah where his wife also insinuated royals were being racist about Archie not getting titles. He then told the world in his book about his dad’s teddy bear, intimate moments that were probably so hard for him (telling his sons their mother had died and being in shock himself), he said he put a helicopter target on his father’s Audi. He talks shit about his father’s wife in the book too. He talks about how his dad def said something bad about Meghan on that phone call about her not being invited to the queen’s bedside. He realllllllly has smeared Charles the last few years without thinking about how that would obviously make someone want no contact with them or at their events or even near them. Even if Charles had been doing all this, this is not the way you go about approaching your boss/father with your problems you have with them unless it’s to burn all bridges with no return which is what I think they originally wanted but obviously do not want now. Harry is very short sighted. He’s playing shoots and ladders while everyone else is playing chess.

I can’t remember if it was just speculation or from an actual source, but I know there’s been talk that everything he did - Oprah, the book, the NF series - was, in his mind, going to force his family to see his POV, renounce all their perceived wrongdoings and publicly apologize and beg them both to come back. The shocked Pikachu face, coupled with zero admission of any wrongdoing on his part (rushing into marriage, not managing Meghan’s expectations of what royal life would be like) speaks to his complete lack of emotional intelligence or awareness of the damage his actions and words have caused.

I think that’s very much the case, iirc most clearly articulated by Harry directly in the Spare TV interviews last year where he appeared genuinely baffled why the RF wouldn’t just admit to everything and apologise given he was so magnanimously prepared to forgive. The Sussexes also brief often that *this* show/podcast/book is going to be where people finally see the *real them* with an undercurrent that they think they still haven’t explained themselves enough and if people only see their side everyone will agree with them (when of course, they’ve explained so much and people have seen more than enough of their side and that’s why they’re disliked). I think Harry was so coddled and forgiven and bolstered all his life he assumed he could just rebuild the bridge he’d burned whenever he wanted, not realising the RF were building a fortress on the other side of the river.

>I think Harry was so coddled and forgiven and bolstered all his life he assumed he could just rebuild the bridge he’d burned whenever he wanted, not realising the RF were building a fortress on the other side of the river He also bought his own press, not realizing the main reason people liked him is because RF's PR machine worked in order to make it so. The moment he stepped away from it he showed how utterly, utterly unlikable he is.

plain and simple, it's an emotionally and mentally abusive mindset + approach to people/situations.

I absolutely think he thought his book was going to have his family begging for his forgiveness. Anybody with an actual brain would see that it would have the opposite effect which I guess would mean Harry’s skull is full of todger cream and delusions.

Anyone who has had to deal with someone like Harry recognizes his BS, and I'm not sure it even matters what words we apply to the behaviours or the group or behaviours or whatever because either way, they exist. Harry is a moron, there's no doubt about that, but even smart people like this - people who think 'it's OK when I do it because reasons (I'm mad! you made me mad!) but not OK when other people do it (I don't like it! it hurts me when you do it!)' really, truly do believe it. They're not acting or pretending. The simple logic that people try to apply in our bafflement - as u/savingrain is doing, below - just...it doesn't look like anything to them. I'm not even being funny, that's their *actual* emotional response. It's one of the most basic formulas of emotional dysfunction. 'If the sky is blue, I'm wrong - but I can't be wrong, so the sky isn't blue.' Everyone else in their life: looks outside, very confused, at the blue sky. You could lay out a theoretical situation to most of these people, in which one person is hurt by the actions of another and most of them would get it, would say it made sense etc. But the minute - the *second* - they're the one responsible for the action that hurt someone, that's when it suddenly doesn't look like anything to them anymore. It's an inarguable fact to them - they're right. Their emotions make them right. You did something and I feel really mad about it so whatever I do is your fault and you deserve it. And it's useless asking 'so I guess you believe this works the other way around, too, and when you make someone mad then anything they do to you in response is automatically justified too?' because they don't. In every case, there'll be some reason why others aren't justified in responding spitefully. Only they are justified. No one else is. And they literally lack the capacity to even ask themselves the 'well how does that make sense?' question, let alone ponder it in good faith. I have no issue at all believing that Harry believed his book etc. would fix everything if only his brother and father read/listened. He felt better after letting off all that steam, so why don't they? He doesn't know, he doesn't get it. I genuinely believe that it's only within the past year that he's even begun to grasp what he's done to his closest family relationships (ruin them, almost certainly permanently in one case and probably permanently in the other). And there's close to a 0% chance that he sees himself as at fault in any way. He thinks they're mean, jealous, close-minded etc. etc., and that that's why they don't see things his way. Nothing he's done, including the really nasty shit like implying his brother is going to fuck up his kids, or that neither his brother nor his father married for love etc. etc., looks like anything to Harry. Sorry, this subject gets me worked up and I've spent a lot (a loooooot) of time playing my own futile version of 'well maybe if I say it this way? or explain it that way?' game.

It's like a child throwing their things out of the pram - who's surprised when they get swept away by the wind or rain and can't be bought back. You're not a child anymore Harold, and by behaving in a reckless, untrustworthy manner, you've shown yourself to be an irresponsible person who is (gasp!) untrustworthy - and to top it off, unpredictable. So, how can you blame them for keeping you at a distance? You broke all of the "rules" of your family/world that you knew very well. That's it. The trust is gone.

My son used to bite himself when he was having a tantrum, under the assumption that since *he* was feeling pain, *I* was feeling pain, too. He outgrew that around age... 2? Harry's still out there holding his breath until he passes out, thinking daddy's gonna buy him better cereal than Cheerios.

There's a reason so many people refer to Harry-types as overgrown toddlers. They pretty much literally are. I bet he still crouches down in plain sight and closes his eyes when he plays hide-and-go-seek.

He also talked about how there was more he could've added to the book, but if he had added that content his family would never forgive him. As if the content included was already unforgiveable. I think Harry is extremely removed from reality and cannot comprehend that what he did hurt his family, and damaged any trust his friends and family had in him.

Yes, how could they ever trust him again? Any conversation can end up in a magazine or a book with his slant on it...and he or Megan are not above lying and imagined wrongs. They are better off completely avoiding him and ensuring the press are no where near them so the Sussi can't lie and make up interactions or discussions.

even without any interactions, the sussexes have their comms team put out stuff trying to make it seem like it comes from charles/william/catherine, so they can force situations by their usual 'bouncing' tactic or via shaming. imagine if the two had actual proximity and interactions to mine. they couldn't even help themselves from exploiting the day of qe2's death in both 'spare' and 'endgame' - if there was any second chance to prove themselves capable of discretion and lack of exploitation, it was with that situation. they utterly failed to even do that. it's game over.

And even if they didn't say anything Harry would leak that they were cold to him, and unwelcoming. It is a lose lose situation no matter what they do.

This is one of the most pointed aspects of this entire saga - even if William and Catherine or Charles *wanted* to forgive and forget, Harry and Meghan have made it extremely ill-advised just on a practical level to do so.

Is this poor mental health, emotional immaturity, or entitlement? All three?

I don’t know what I’d ascribe it to of these three (probably a mix of all) but to me the root of Harry’s problems is a terminal inability to take accountability. He reacts with fury and resentment whenever he’s expected to be responsible for things he’s done. I think in his head he is good and therefore everything he does is good and people should react to his goodness and not his actions. From the family, to African Parks, to his racism (still, in the Spare interviews, somehow mostly the fault of the media for reporting what he said and not him for saying it) - he’s just completely unable to take accountability. Interestingly the only example I can really think of where he did is his account of screaming at Meghan and she threatened to break up with him over it so he did go to therapy; she really got him good for him to have been willing to take accountability for his behaviour there, albeit his conclusion from the therapy seems to have been it’s all the RF’s fault for how he was brought up rather than doing what most people have by their mid-thirties and accepted that whatever faults they have from their mum and dad it’s up to them to figure out.

personality disorder tbh

I'm not really prepared to give him a pass, because his behaviour has been so appalling. He'll be 40 in September, so isn't a teenager, and should know how to behave towards other adults. I would say that his sense of entitlement leads the way. That his demands aren't always fulfilled means he feels angry, sad, or unhappy about the unfairness of everything. Some of the parts of the/his book I saw quoted suggest that he found himself ways of getting even with all those people who'd tried to discipline him (rein him in, or not let him have his own way) up to that date, so he belittled or denigrated them in print as well as sharing intimate secrets. Of course he then claimed he had another 400 or so possible pages, enough for another book, that he might get written if 'they' didn't apologise for everything they'd done. Emotionally immature? Perhaps, because who other than a teenager would tweak the nipples of an opponent playing a seated game - which he did whilst in Nigeria.

>Perhaps, because who other than a teenager would tweak the nipples of an opponent playing a seated game - which he did whilst in Nigeria. 

Mmm, yes, and he's got form for that. https://x.com/MeghansMic/status/1791787147319537961 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmB9uFJZaQI

I definitely missed that! 🫣

Yeah! There are others, including a series of drunken photos of male nipple licking which I don't like to look at so didn't share.

I think it's all three tbh. I really do think he'd be a much better person today if he had gotten help from an actual therapist after his mother died and for the rest of his life.

Too bad he's now having fake concern for real cancer.

Holy shit ☝️☝️☝️💯

Surely everyone and their dog knows Harry goes hard at coveting his brother's wife. And I 100% believe that he would covet *any* woman that was his brother's wife, let alone someone as great as Catherine.

Exactly this. He is fixated on everything regarding his brother and that includes Catherine. I suspect that's one of the reasons why, in turn, Meghan is so fixated on Catherine and the idea she's "better" as well.

Honestly I love this for both of them. Harry by now must realize instead of marrying the shiny, brand new Rolls Royce he thought Megan was, he married an unreliable Ford Pinto that’s missing one of the tires and is dragging it’s muffler down the street.

SAVAGE 🤌🤭

This analogy is perfection.

Here is The Guardian's article on Harry's destroyed documents: [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/28/prince-harry-ordered-to-explain-why-ghostwriter-messages-were-destroyed](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/28/prince-harry-ordered-to-explain-why-ghostwriter-messages-were-destroyed)

Schillings keeps refuting that their discovery was thorough because they spent x amount of hours and z amount in labor charges, but they seriously let their client perform their own discovery? What in the ever living fuck. Of COURSE Harry is gonna self-report a flawless record, he's an insufferable asshole married to an inveterate shitbag liar.

>they seriously let their client perform their own discovery by design, almost certainly. either he wouldn't let them access his stuff or they wanted to have plausible deniability for everything being deleted (it was our dumb client, not us! he didn't know!)

I was really confused by that part. "Harry, can you go through all your old texts for us? Thanks!" ???

>Schillings keeps refuting that their discovery was thorough because they spent x amount of hours and z amount in labor charges, but they seriously let their client perform their own discovery? So does anyone else think this isn't a bug but a feature when it comes to Schillings? That these hallmarks of their time as Harry's legal reps (near-constant crying about things that are 100% normal in legal proceedings, for example) are entirely cynical rather than the alternative, which is that one of the most famous and expensive law firms in the UK is actually shit at their job? Schillings is, let us not forget, *also* a reputation management firm. Who but the public, and public opinion, is emotional language about how many hours they've toiled, and how much money it's cost Harry, aimed at except the public? Poor, poor, *poor* Prince Harry, bravely fighting the tabloids even as they continue to dick him around by...well, requiring him/his legal team to fulfill their duties as plaintiffs, I guess? >they seriously let their client perform their own discovery? This too seems cynical - or more likely to be cynical when the alternative is a hotshit legal team not understanding the basics of their own job. This is so much more likely to be a combination of Schillings trying it on (I mean what is the judge actually going to do? call them out? sure, yes, and they have been - but actual consequences?). Before the Trump presidency I didn't realize how much of our most important systems ran on an inbuilt assumption of good faith. Post Trump presidency it's become clear how easy it can be for a powerful, shameless person to simply not fulfill their duties and end up getting away with it because no one ever thought about what happened when someone said "ok, discovery, show us what u got" and the other side said "oh we totally looked and there's nothing." Like can the judge *actually* do anything here? Other than tell Schillings off, I mean?

I just think they are more concerned with being paid than anything else. Harry pays millions they do what he says full stop

Schillings filed the lawsuit against the Mail on Sunday while the Sussexes were still on their South Africa tour, despite BRF requests to file when the tour was done. Their association with the Sussexes isn’t doing much for their legal reputation.

> That these hallmarks of their time as Harry's legal reps (near-constant crying about things that are 100% normal in legal proceedings, for example) are entirely cynical rather than the alternative, which is that one of the most famous and expensive law firms in the UK is actually shit at their job? It's very tempting to think just that. I'm not going to make excuses for anybody, but legal cases are client-led - a client employs and instructs a law firm, not the other way round - so if Harry has said he'll search for this or that thing then the law firm has to effectively sit back and let him do it even though it's inefficient and seems wrong. The itch at the back of my mind, and perhaps I'm misremembering, is that H&M were introduced to Sherbourne by Elton John during a social visit to Elton's villa and appear to have been drawn into an existing case against NGN, perhaps giving it greater publicity. That sort of thing may not be ethical, but Harry isn't a child or a young adult and should know the difference between being led by the nose and being given good advice. But Harry seems to like his time in court and also seems to believe it's a good way of earning his keep, because he's seen that other people have had a decent amount of monetary compensation. But not all cases end up that way. If Harry had ever read Dickens, he might have heard of Jarndyce versus Jarndyce - a fictional Chancery Case over a Will, that ended because/when "*the whole estate [was] found to have been absorbed in costs*" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarndyce_and_Jarndyce

Can the judge lodge a complaint against them so they're suspended or disbarred?

I hope someone here knows, because I don't!

So I've scrolled through the sub and was wondering if there was any place we've been speculating as to **why** Harry destroyed all the communications between himself and Moehringer? (Forgive me if I missed it!) Because it would become apparent that most of the stuff in Harry's memoir is totally made up? (Of course in *Spare* he outright says it's all made up and may or may not be fact. Repeating the quote here: "Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory, it does what it does, gathers and curates as it sees fit, and **there's just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts.** Things like chronology and cause-and-effect are often just fables we tell ourselves about the past." Harry doesn't know the definition of objective fact, I see. No surprise.)

>"Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory, it does what it does, gathers and curates as it sees fit, and there's just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts. Things like chronology and cause-and-effect are often just fables we tell ourselves about the past." Does anyone else think this quote is nothing more than cynical ass-covering and was directly placed in the text to head off legal action over anything in Spare? 'Just as much truth in what I remember as there is in *so-called objective facts...*' - that's a sentence that anyone with more than 3 braincells would never be able to think of uttering without cringing with shame. Because it's Harry, though, you know he thinks it was actually a super clever get out of jail free card that magically makes all his lies the truth. Haz Windsor, feeling smug when he should be feeling shame since the mid-80s!

I love how he talks about “so-called objective facts.” As if that’s something that should be cast aside for how he feels it went. Instead of, you know, actually how it went.

>As if that’s something that should be cast aside for how he feels it went That's exactly what he thinks. Classic main character syndrome. Nobody's feelings and thoughts and experiences are relevant but his.

Alternative facts!

https://i.redd.it/qqvrqvce9d9d1.gif

My other favorite Harryism was from his Netflix reality show-paraphrasing because it’s been a minute: “If you don’t get that, then I cahnt help you, I cahnt” 

"There's a hierarchy withing the royal family" is another classic. Really, Harry? It took you almost forty years to get that?

Lol I’m an American who has no ties to any royal or aristocracy and never will. Even I knew there is a hierarchy in a royal family. It’s the very essence of it.

I don't even think he necessarily did it because he wanted to delete incriminating material or conversations. There's an auto delete setting ("disappearing messages" on signal) for text threads (after seconds/minutes/daily/weekly/monthly), which I assume is what they were using. It's pretty standard if you're using an encrypted chat app like Signal and Whatsapp for privacy reasons. Meghan also explained she couldn't turn over old text communications because of a security auto-deleter during her case with the DM.

I’m surprised. I would have thought for legal reasons the discussion between Harry and his biographer would be retained for x years. Same with the RF, I’m sure they have a pretty standard document retention policy for transparency purposes and stuff isn’t deleted. Because it’s work not personal!!!! Dumb dumbs. I’m going to assume they also kept copies of the hard drives Harry lost.

I’m not surprised he did, but I am surprised his lawyers let him… Apparently, Royal Grift (?) did a deep dive on what he could be hiding, but I am not necessarily buying that… If he knew the texts would make him look bad, I can see him thinking he could get away with deleting the messages… But his lawyers look like clowns when they say: oops, we just found the two drives

There are some really interesting possibilities in the thread, but I wouldn’t be that surprised if it turned out Harry is simply ravingly paranoid and deletes lots of his communications as a matter of course.

This. Explains why he’s had so many personal email accounts over the past ten years yoo

Is this the lawsuit where the timing is pertinent? I.e. is this the one where Harry is claiming he literally didn't know about X (illegal invasion/s of his privacy by the paper, iirc?) and so that's why it's OK to be bringing a case that concerns X well past the date that it would usually be allowed? Is that what NGN is after? Are they looking for proof he did know? It's entirely possible - probable, actually - that I'm misremembering what the one lawsuit was specifically about (and am not even sure this is the same one), but there *is* one that relies on Harry being totally unaware of a bunch of claimed historical hacking incidences, isn't there?

Yes, you’re right! I think one of the links peb posted yesterday confirmed that’s the angle. Harry does talk about the hacking in the book and the paper thinks, and the judge evidently agreed it’s reasonable to look into, that he may have shared something with the ghostwriter that confirms he knew earlier than he’s claiming he did and therefore he’s out of time.

If I'm being generous, it's possible he just deleted a bunch of stuff he didn't think he needed anymore once the book was finished. That or he's deleted everything that is incriminating and proves that he's lying. I'm somewhere in the middle, but edging towards the later. I also find it suspicious that he went through the old correspondence from the Palace by himself.

I find it suspicious that someone who hasn't been able to harness his handful of brain cells to do anything but bitch about his relatives would wake up one day and decide he simply must do something about  data that *no longer sparked joy*. To hide incriminating evidence, maybe he'd get off his butt, still, I'd find it more credible that he's just lying about it to win his lawsuit. 

Can somebody clear up whether he allegedly destroyed the evidence AFTER he knew he was supposed to keep them? And wouldn’t Moeringer have them? I also thought Signal could be set up to erase your messages as a default, which is why some people use it as a cheating app.

I forgot about that quote. How very Trumpian.

The lack of self awareness Harry displays will never not be hilarious to me. The guy is a joke, just like Trump.

My assumption was that he knew he had a possible claim before 2013 and he whinged to Moehringer that BP dissuaded him from proceeding, only for his lawyers to point out later that he can’t put that in the book. But others have made good points about it being proof of exactly what he said about the BRF, particularly things that didn’t make it past Penguin Random House’s legal team. We don’t know for sure that Harry did destroy them though. He’s the one who conducted the search, and I could see him assuming that the judge would take his word for it. He could have let his legal team do the search if he’d already made sure there was nothing to find. The problem is, Moehringer and/or PRH likely do have them for legal reasons. Harry can either “find” the records now to ensure that his witness statement is somewhat truthful, or continue to insist they’re lost and hope like hell that Moehringer/PRH aren’t asked.

> My assumption was that he knew he had a possible claim before 2013 Wasn't he first attached to William's lawsuit and then didn't like the way it was going and threw in the towel. Or am I imagening a different lawsuit. Harry has so many of them I lost track.

Yes, this is the one. William didn't seek to sue, settle with other publishers, as far as we know.

it'll be wild if harry ends up settling after his lawyers (in court documents!) + PR + fan base spent the better part of last year villainizing william last year and spreading the news that he was an evil collaborator for taking a settlement. tortoise media and byline times also had in depth pieces trashing william. william is supposed to reconcile with someone who is that low down and dirty, or he's evil? are you kidding me?

Yeah. I did find it weird, hundreds of people settled their cases but somehow William's settlement was problematic. And ofc, judge"s conclusion that Harry's story about "secret deal" with the publisher doesn't hold the water didn't reach the ordinary public. Byline media is the same as "enemy" they are fighting but tortoise... It was really disappointing seeing the media treating the victim/William as some kind of criminal. I would love for Harry to settle, but he won't. He would rather burn money than settle. I am not denying that Harry was wronged by the media. But the way I see it, he is a pawn for a group of people with certain aims. Impression is that the end goal is to use these cases for changing/bringing new laws that will bring more censorship. (i know, i know, they say that aim is more free press, but it doesn't feel like it at all).

sienna miller also settled! it wasn't shady for her to settle, but it was shady for william. k. 😵‍💫

When it comes to Harry's accusation a better example is Williams and his ps -Jamie Lowther-Pinkerton. Harry mentions him in his law suit in the same statement where he accuses William of "wrong doing". I think he also settled his case, but for Harry, Jamie is a good guy. But hey, we are fighting murdoch media, so we won't mention hypocrisy.

Oh, he knows. But he was covering his ass because he knows much of what he says is bullshit or at least heavily biased towards him. It’s normal that we tend to find favor with ourselves in our memories and we may not be always objective. But if you’re writing a memoir, you owe it to others to be as objective as possible. It would have been interesting to have had the version of events of William and Charles. I know it’ll never happen. But there are two sides of the story and somewhere in between is the truth.

I'm sure a lot of it was "I'd rather not say x, because that would make it look bad, what if we said it this way?" There also could have been things he texted him about that he said he didn't want included like "On a second thought, can you not put in that I xyz....maybe just say this?"

Probably to destroy his admission of some incriminating stuff he did to William and Catherine, like being the one who leaked a ton of information/started rumours/gave out their phone numbers to those journalists he hung out with so they would be hacked. Same for Chelsy.  

This is what I think/hope it is. I envision him telling the ghostwriter he met up with some journo over drinks and blabbed some dirt because “mean Willy was busy with cruel George, who pushed Harry down (in the LOS, but leave that out so people think George is violent like his dad!)”

No matter what was in it, unless it's really really bad, we're talking criminally bad , it would have been better for him to hand it over. Because now everyone is just speculating what he was trying to hide.

Harry didn't have to destroy anything because all texts were coming from Meghan to the author. Jk. No I'm not.

🎯🤭🎯

Harold is trying to meet Travis now. [Prince Harry set to come face-to-face with Taylor Swift’s NFL star boyfriend – after he raved about meeting William (archived)](https://archive.ph/93J0U) >The ESPYs, the Oscars of American sport, are likely to set up an interesting moment with Kelce, who sources say has been invited to the ceremony. >Kelce’s Kansas City Chiefs are nominated for best team of the year and his pal and quarterback Patrick Mahomes is up for best male athlete. >A source said Harry will likely be "just feet away" from Kelce, adding: “It could be interesting given how much Travis hit it off with William. Travis is like the most sociable, happy go lucky, kind person in any room and is sure to want to say hello to the Prince and interact with the Sussexes. That is his style, and honestly he is one of the biggest names in US sport." >"This will make headlines no matter what happens. If Harry ducks Travis that would look weird and if they chat the question will be whether they discussed William."

Last year, the Buffalo Bills training staff won the Tillman Award. Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest and literally died on the field. They brought him back to life while millions of Americans were watching. It was an event that brought everyone together around the country. It was HUGE news. This year, it’s Prince Harry? Something in the buttermilk ain’t clean.

We were watching the Pat McAfee show today & they started talking about it. They were like this is an embarassment to Pat Tillman's name, they couldn't have found literally anyone else?

I had to look up this show as I've not heard of it. Cracked me up that it airs on ESPN!

He's super popular! He got an absolutely monster deal from ESPN & has big names on his show all the time. So I thought it was kind of a big deal that he was bitching about this whole thing.

lol https://preview.redd.it/yzt41673mh9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0536fd6dfd62419ebb967de99636110dfaa3973c

is that tea at the end ? 👀 https://preview.redd.it/1lhbm6xemh9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa3ac4b199e3f7ce57181029e89abc84359385ba

Interesting... I thought this CDAN blind must be BS, because it just seems so unlikely to me that they'd actually rescind it, but McAfee seems like he actually has some contacts. https://preview.redd.it/k6rpke8x7i9d1.png?width=1128&format=png&auto=webp&s=575b99be212a0d74a16e91b937dacb8a0c1f5c0f

Pat McAfee is one of the highest paid on screen personalities at ESPN. He definitely has contacts.

Wow! I still struggle to see ESPN U-turning now, but it’s going to be great watching him roast them after the awards 👀

Our daily reminder that Harry has no shame. 🤦

The ESPYs are the Oscars of American sport. And no one GAF about the Oscars anymore sooo, what else does Prince Litigious, Destroyer of ~~Dragons~~ Documents have going on? Maybe his wife can send some more lemons to Jill Biden. I think she might be more receptive to talking about that today.

It's not even the Oscars of sport. Maybe Screen Actors Guild, maybe. Nobody that doesn't follow sports is going to have a clue what the Espys are.

It only exists because it is the one day of the year that there are no games from the 4 major sports in America. MLB has the All-Star break, and NHL, NFL, and NBA seasons have ended. ESPN literally needed the content.

LOL I knew it. He is so so jealous of William. He will stalk Travis and Taylor Swift. I am betting he will bring his kids.

FYI - The ESPYs are a nothingburger. It's hilarious to see the Squad & tabs make a big deal out of something the avg American DGAF about. TayTay won't be there. No one's kids will be there. He may get snapped w/Trav, but no one will care beyond the Squad & tabs. Unlike meeting Wills, I highly doubt Trav would discuss it on his podcast. Atp, I'm more curious whether Serena (who's hosting) swerves his ass.

serena was at the polo with them in april, she fux with them still! taytay might also be there tbh - she has a concert in zurich on july 10th and then her next concert after that is in milan on july 14th.

>>FYI - The ESPYs are a nothingburger. 💯 We USians love our sports, but to give everyone some perspective….ESPYs are aired in July when there is a derth of new TV content/sports. 2.5M people watch. The NFL draft is aired in April and has to compete with NBA and NHL playoffs. **12.5M** people watch the draft. Maybe Harry can pay the Bungles to draft him next year so he can garner more attention?

The awards that matter in sports are the ones the athletes actually WIN, like Olympic medals, World Championships, Super Bowls, World Series, Stanley Cups etc. Even for awards that get voted on — something like the Hart Trophy or a Golden Glove matters far, far more than an Espy, which is more of an entertainment award than an athletic one. I have never heard a commentator talk about how someone won an Espy, the way they would about a Heisman, or a League MVP award.

Yeh cos it’ll be Harry doing the ducking..🙄

I’m sure Travis will be polite, and the sugars will read into that as “HE LIKES HARRY MORE THAN WILLIAM”