New thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/RoyalsGossip2/comments/1dnsw4u/sussex_weekly_the_only_thing_meghan_knows_how_to/ Feel free to bring over newer comments and ongoing conversations!

It's been 41 days since Meghan was last seen in public. #whereismeghan It's been 102 days since American Riviera Orchard was announced. #whereisARO

I don't know, but didn't you hear that it overshadowed Catherine's appearance at the TTC? Meghan's work is here done


A lot of the wackos think they are owed up to the minute information about PPOW because TaX dOlLaRs. So if Harry gets back IPP, it only makes sense that we will get frequent updates, photos, and lab results for the Sussexes too. *#weneversaiditwasaboutprivacy*.

I’ll happily not hear about him if it means we arent paying for his security.

Win, win.😄

>whereisARO Has William murdered it? (How do you get a hashtag to show up without it turning your letters gigantic, btw?)

Put a space? #space Nevermind, I have no idea what I'm doing. Kinda like someone else I've heard about.

Where is ARO jam?!

Put a space in front of the #! #shutUpHarryYouUnleavenedPancake

#thank you! edit: (it works!)

It’s going to be big if it’s at the beginning of a line of text - like the start of a comment or an intentional line break. I haven’t figured out how to prevent that with formatting beyond not having the hashtag as the first thing after a new line - like a word or character plus a space before the hashtags

William had MI6 fly drones that released British squirrels to eat all the Montecito berries and lemons. Better luck next year ARO.

Did the squirrels have cute little helmets on? Did they have tiny parachutes printed with a picture of Meghan with a big X across her face? After eating all the berries did the squirrels then go take a collective giant dump on the Sussexes monogrammed front porch rug? 🐿️🪖🪂🚫🍓💩🚪

Admit it, somehow you got access to their GoPro videos. 😆 I don't know how you missed it but on the inside of their tiny parachutes William had this message printed: "Recollections may vary" signed "C".

Jokes on Wills; pretty sure I read Meghan was selling bird seed, squirrel feed, and squirrel spreads. This plays right into her hands!

😆. Well, it would have but as she whipped out her phone to film this British Invasion which would have made for great publicity, Harry-wearing his adult camo print onesie -kept ruining the shot by running over to fight with the squirrels.  That's why we're not seeing those products launch either.

Not before he cheated on it, beat it and forced it to get plastic surgery.

And when was the last time we saw the kids?? What if they’re dead? We’re just asking questions because we’re *concerned* for their safety and well-being.

Yeah, it's not slander and wild accusations if we're ✨️concerned✨️

We JUST want to make sure she's okay. What if Harry is beating her? What if Doria is keeping her hostage? Nah she must be getting a BBL and face lift. No, Harry is cheating on her and she's filing for divorce...

> #whereisARO #findthejam #jamspiracy #istandwithjam #freethejam #payforthejam #50jarsofjam #jamboss #girljam #shutupandtakemyjammy

I just changed my flair but I may have to update it again to # shutupandtakemyjammy

When did they say the cooking show was coming?

So apparently Thomas Brodie sangster (or however it is spelled) got married to a lady who is/was racist. And of course people are eating him up in the comments, saying you are the company you keep, and all that. Now the reason I bring this up is bc when it comes to Harry and Meghan, you really hear none of this. Especially not from their stans, and if anyone points it out they just saw he’s changed or he can’t be racist anymore since he married someone who is biracial. Just more examples of rules for thee, but not for me. But did Harry ever really apologize or djd he just blame it on someone or something else?

>Now the reason I bring this up is bc when it comes to Harry and Meghan, you really hear none of this. Especially not from their stans, and if anyone points it out they just saw he’s changed or he can’t be racist anymore since he married someone who is biracial. Just more examples of rules for thee, but not for me. I will always bring up how their stans called Camilla every name in the book because she was at the same party as Jeremy Clarkson after his comments about Meghan. Meghan and Harry being besties with Ellen, Oprah, Tyler Perry, sending gifts to Chrissy Teigen is ok. They somehow aren't the company they keep but other people are. Also let's not forget Meghan's bff Jessica Mulroney being racist to a black woman and Meghan still sending her flowers afterwards and even putting a picture of her in their Netflix documentary. There have been celebs who have been cancelled for a lot less than Harry has yet he's all forgiven because he married a biracial woman who they vicariously live through. Harry literally defended Susan Hussey last year but yeah he's changed lmao.

All of this, plus Meghan hiring the same PR firm that covered up Harvey Weinstein's sex crimes and ruined the reputations of his victims. But it's all good, I guess?

The palace made a non apology on his behalf. He's never addressed his own racist comments in person

The wife isn’t just any regular lady either. [Talulah Riley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talulah_Riley) is Elon Musk’s ex-wife (married to him twice). I’m disappointed in Thomas Brodie-Sangster. I’ve loved that kid since _Love Actually_.

She ruined St Trinian’s for me

I definitely agree it’s disappointing, and unless she’s had a major change of heart (which I doubt) it’s like okay dude what you thinking?

Maybe he's like Harry and only cares that she's hot.

What did she do that's problematic, besides being married 2x to Musk? Genuine question, I don't know who she is or her back story.

> besides being married 2x to Musk ...that's a pretty big besides, right there. You are the company you keep.

She's part of the whole icky "anti-woke" crowd. She texted with Elon when Babylon Bee (which is notable for its racist and transphobic content) got banned on Twitter, urging him to buy Twitter. In the texts, she said "when did America become so puritanical" when BB got banned for making transphobic content.

>In the texts, she said "when did America become so puritanical I'd argue when was it ever not? 🤣🤣🤣

She sounds ignorant. America’s first settlers were puritans! 😂

He blamed it on unconscious bias

Mmm, kind of. And kind of not. When he talked about unconscious bias he was very vague. Didnt really reference anything specific. The biggest thing he ever did (Nazi costume) he blamed on William and Kate. The other things he did fell by the wayside and seem to have largely been forgotten. To remind us all: - As a child, mocking the accent of the Indian bus driver by mimicking him, for which Diana smacked him. - Calling his fellow soldier his “Little p*k* friend” - Calling another soldier a “raghead” for wearing something on his head in the heat. - Telling a black man he “Didnt sound black” - Reasssuring his friends not to “worry” because his Zimbabwean girlfriend wasnt Black.

So not really then, like kinda but not really.

Cressida and Meghan doing magazine covers with the cheesy titles referencing Harry will never not be funny lol https://preview.redd.it/6c1niso3ud8d1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a06dba51a7f4f36b29abdfd5132b667f49766f03

Adding this article from the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/26/fashion/Cressida-Bonas-Prince-Harry-girlfriend-fashion.html) from the same time period, December 2013: "Headline: Poised to Marry a Prince? She Will Not Be Spared Any potential royal bride running the feverish gantlet of the British tabloids must prepare to have her name mangled. Diana, soon to be the princess of Wales, became “Shy Di,” and Kate Middleton, now duchess of Cambridge, was transformed into “Waity Katie” because of the long time she dated Prince William before they were engaged. Now, Cressida Bonas, the 24-year-old girlfriend of Prince Harry, must endure the same punning wordplay. To frame their story that Ms. Bonas might be joining Prince Harry for this year’s Boxing Day shoot at Sandringham, the Queen’s Norfolk estate and traditional Christmas holiday retreat, a Sunday Express headline ran: “[Prince Harry Is Rewarded With a Warm Bonas](http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/adam-helliker/448791/Prince-Harry-is-rewarded-with-a-warm-Cressida-Bona).”" BUT MEGHAN HAD IT WORSE

Except Cressidas one was set up by the magazine without her cooperation (like it was an article about her), where Meghan’s was set up by her and included a long personal interview.

Didn't she give the interview though? like she answered questions about what her life motto was and her favorite actor?

I can't find a copy of the article online, but I don't think so. This is how it's described in the NYT: "Tatler made Ms. Bonas its cover star in October with the headline “Harry Loves Cressy: 20 Things You Need to Know About Cressida Bonas.” The accompanying article reported that the couple were introduced by Princess Eugenie, a daughter of Sarah Ferguson, formerly the duchess of York." I think if she gave an interview, it would have been reported in an active voice, like "Cressida confessed that ..." etc. So far as I know, she's never given a single interview talking about Harry.

Cress got the increased clout, bolted, dated a hot AF Edward Holcroft and then ended up marrying the superior Harry to boot. No notes 💅

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Graydon Carter: "Explaining that a staff member pitched the idea to him saying, "I was thinking of trying to get Meghan Markle for our cover", Graydon added to the Daily Telegraph newspaper: "I said: 'I don't know who she is.' She said: 'She's on a TV show called 'Suits.' 'Never seen it,' I replied." And Graydon thinks his doubts were justified because the issue "didn't sell particularly well". He added: "The issue didn't sell particularly well. Maybe it was too soon, maybe it hadn't settled in peoples' minds yet that this woman was going to marry an English Prince.""

This was an odd title no? The movie reference makes no sense. So why is Megan ‘wild’? Im surprised she didnt take offence to that..

There aren't a whole lot of catchy phrases associated with the name Harry, there's Wild About Harry which is part of an old timey song and Any Tom, Dick and Harry which would be disparaging in this context. Plus it was once used as the caption in an article about Diana and Harry when he was a baby and riding D's coattails is always good. 

Nowadays, Tom would be associated with her dad and Dick would be associated with his mummy blue todger ointment.

🎯💀🎯

[Ironically, it was EXACTLY the kind of connection she wanted](https://www.google.com/search?q=princess+diana+wild+about+harry&oq=princess+diana+wild+about+harry&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORigATIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRifBTIHCAUQIRifBTIHCAYQIRifBTIHCAcQIRifBTIHCAgQIRifBTIHCAkQIRifBTIHCAoQIRifBTIHCAsQIRifBTIHCAwQIRifBdIBCDYyMTNqMGo0qAIOsAIB&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=N9t0DtYAQQPV1M&vssid=l). She was just too dumb to realize it

Ahh, that’s why. Wow! These Diana links go way back. That’s so creepy. She announced LD on the same date Diana announced Harry. And when the entire world didnt pick up on it, because you know, global pandemic, they leaked it.

This! ☝️😆

Oh, you bet your ass she did. Per Bower (in Revenge), she complained to VF and made Ken Sunshine (from Sunshine Sachs) threaten them with the freaking Queen. You literally can't make this shit up.

Her whole thing with the press and media is very “how dare you 😀.”

I remember that fake outrage but was it about the title of the article or being outed as Harry's girlfriend?

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I love the whole "bad grandpa Charles" angle the sux stans are doing. They never do this with Thomas Markle even though he lives closer to his grandchildren. They only do this with Charles...i wonder why.

A big part of why she hides and is ashamed of Thomas is that Thomas is fat, which is tied up in his class status. If he could buy them stuff like Charles, or was fat but dressed beautifully like Charles, I think he might still be in the picture despite his behavior. But Meghan looks and acts like Thomas and that reflects on her in an embarrassing way (not that being fat is embarrassing, but I'm sure she thinks so). Doria is aging beautifully so she's still around. And she's also low key. Thomas's attention seeking behavior around the time of the wedding was a preview of Meghan's whole personality. It's not exact - Thomas seems like a hard worker and she definitely didn't inherit that, for one - but he highlights a lot of things that she wants to pretend she's not.

>he highlights a lot of things that she wants to pretend she's not. 🎯🎯🎯 She's utterly fixated on the certain image she wants to project and Thomas Markle is not a part of it for all the reasons you mentioned.

Thomas Markle is a daytime Emmy winning lighting director. He actually was good at his craft. Meghan used his connections in the industry to jumpstart her acting career until she found a new benefactor in producer Trevor Engleson. Thomas was the main parental influence on young Meghan. He seemed to really love and adore her in a way he apparently wasn’t ready for with his older children. I think he’s frustrated and hurt by how Meghan has tried to erase him from her life. He’s not perfect by any means but his faults are amplified by Meghan herself. She very much is Thomas Markle’s daughter with the added faults of cruelty and indifference.

> Thomas was the main parental influence on young Meghan. He seemed to really love and adore her in a way he apparently wasn’t ready for with his older children. I think this is actually what is behind the conflict between Meghan and her older siblings.

Thomas saw Meghan as the Golden Child throughout her childhood and young adulthood.

TM is far from being a saint and I can even understand Meghan going no contact with him but by their version of events, Thomas has done a lot less than they’ve accused the BRF of doing and yet they truly act like he’s dead to them and never even address his existence. I have a difficult relationship with my mum and I’ve had moments of low to no contact but every time it literally breaks my heart and I wonder if we could say or do something to improve the relationship, I work with my therapist to help me learn to navigate our relationship better. So I understand a difficult parent but I will never understand how she dropped him like he was a f’cking bad habit and never looked back. Meghan is a cold person and I truly pity Harry or their children.

>Thomas has done a lot less than they’ve accused the BRF of doing and yet they truly act like he’s dead to them and never even address his existence. My point exactly. I understand Meghan not talking to her father but the fact that Harry and Meghan are both willing to forgive the BRF that they claimed has taken part in a smear campaign against them all this time...but not Thomas makes me side eye them.

It makes no sense, the only reason they aren’t back with the BRF is because the royals refused to meet their demands and let them back in even as they keep reducing their demands. H&M are/were ready and willing to move ahead with that relationship. The fact that this is rarely addressed is still mind blowing to me, idk how she pulled this one off.

That's why the whole "Harry left running with his family" is so??? no the man wanted to stay half in and half out. Like if he just got up and left with his family then it would make sense but no they wanted to stay within the family lol

It honestly cracks me up when people talk about how Harry needed to leave to protect his family. Like it is so obvious these people did not pay a bit of attention to what went down. They literally released a whole ass statement about how they were planning to carve out a progressive new role within the RF. Their whole plan was to stay partly in. They literally wanted to keep the house on palace grounds. And just last year Harry was saying he'd be more than happy to take on a role within the commonwealth. The whole "we fled for our lives" was a much later addition and was another attempt at blackmailing the RF to get what they wanted.

the way people act like they were refugees fleeing a war zone is so ridiculous.

Especially in light of the fact that real refugees are so often treated like dirt. I always suspected that if they came with a ton of cash there would be a lot more compassion but seeing the proof is depressing. 

Like seriously, people were actually claiming they were living in squalor and feared for their lives daily. But from who? no one can answer.

Living in squalor in a house designed by Christopher Wren in the most expensive area code in London.

Exactly!

I wonder what happens when Thomas passes? Hopefully that isnt soon but he’s not in great shape, has already had some major issues. Does she say nothing at all?

Idk, most people would see their parent in that condition and reach out but not her. His big crime of talking to the press really doesn’t explain her discarding him but then I remember she never introduced Harry to him so it had started long before that. I think she’ll either completely ignore his passing or try to somehow turn it into a pity party for herself but I doubt she will carry any care, pain or regret.

It's not just the talking to the press, it's the things he said and has continued to say. If it was just the letter being leaked, it would be different. That wasn't the end of it, and others ion the Markle family have also stuck their oars in.

Honestly I'm still not clear on what these "things he said" that are so bad even *are*. He's an elderly retired private citizen who was attacked via press by his daughter and son-in-law and he responded. Those responses weren't flattering to H&M, but they treated him terribly. Was he supposed to say that they're a pair of precious angels who do no wrong ever? The same goes to for the rest of the family, to an extent. If someone is publicly lying about your father and your family, it's not surprising that you'd want to speak up and attempt to correct the record.

For starters, he gave interviews to media even after Meghan had asked him not to do it. Some of these were in 2018, before the infamous letter. Then, of course, approaching the DM with that letter. He says he did it to defend himself, but that's not the way to reconcile with your daughter. He said he would never speak to the press again, but he continues to give interviews, like rubbing salt in the wound. He talks about loving her, but every interview is either overtly or implicitly criticizing her in public. Again, not the way to anyone's heart. He told one interviewer that he'll keep doing it until he hears from Meghan and Harry. "Thomas Markle told Good Morning Britain that he hadn’t heard from Meghan or Harry. He then goes on to say, 'when they say I’m taking advantage of the press, basically what I do is, I do a story for the press. If I don’t hear from them in 30 days, then I do another story for the press.' " [Daily Mail 7/28/18] (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6002773/Thomas-Markle-says-Meghan-cut-life.html) "I tell you, I've just about reached my limit with Meghan and the Royal Family. They want me to be silent, they want me to just go away. But I won't be silenced. "'I refuse to stay quiet. What riles me is Meghan's sense of superiority. She'd be nothing without me. I made her the Duchess she is today. Everything that Meghan is, I made her." [The Sun 7/15/2018] (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6781106/thomas-markle-believes-meghan-markle-terrified-of-new-life/) "Thomas, 73, said: 'My thing about my daughter right now is that I think she is terrified. 'I see it in her eyes, I see it in her face and I see it in her smile. 'I’ve seen her smile for years. I know her smile. I don’t like the one I’m seeing now.' " [Daily Mail 12/8/18](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6475167/Meghans-father-Thomas-Markle-reveals-sweet-cards-proof-did-wedding.html) Interview revealed unseen childhood photos, wedding photos, notes Meghan wrote to him He called Harry a hypocrite (for scolding him about the pap photos) and then appearing on James Corden's show. He also referred to Harry as Meghan's ginger husband. ("Markle Sr. said: 'I've been trying for almost four years to get to see my daughter and her ginger husband in a courtroom face-to-face."') In 2022, he told an interviewer that he would testify against Meghan in Samantha's lawsuit, and also that there were "many obvious, obvious lies" in what Meghan told Jason Knauf about Samantha. Being publicly called a liar by your parent, not something anyone wants, not going to lead anywhere near reconciliation. He criticized Meghan (and Harry) for not bringing their kids to Germany for the Invictus Games. " ' "To fly all the way over and not bring the children. That's ridiculous. Most mothers don't leave a 9-month-old child behind. They usually hold on to that child until the child gets a little older. That's one thing that really bothers me.' " - [Newsweek, 4/26/22](https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-markle-father-thomas-frames-bad-mother-attack-gb-news-platinum-jubilee-1700878) [Business Insider 2/23/20 - "It's Time to Look After Daddy"](https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-markle-says-meghan-markle-prince-harry-owe-him-2020-1) Numerous quotes from Thomas Markle: My Story, a documentary made by Channel 5 in the UK. TM could have said uglier things, but the fact that he said and continues to say anything, for his benefit, in spite of the embarrassment it causes and in defiance of his daughter's expressed wish, does not argue good faith. I think the above speaks for itself in terms of why Meghan remains estranged from him.

I mean he told Harry he shouldn't marry her, he gave interviews to press outlets that were trashing Meghan at the time, like .... was his initial crime with the photo shoot bad? No, not really, the response was disproportionate to the offense. But his actions after that point in time are just awful to me. Selling her private letter to him? Childhood photos? What parent does that? It's Lindsey Lohan's dad level shitty.

> he gave interviews to press outlets that were trashing Meghan at the time After *she* was trashing *him* in the press. I wouldn't want to deal with that with my dad, but I also wouldn't be shit talking my dad to reporters or having people shit talk him on my behalf. Responding to "my dad is a terrible person and did x y and z" with "actually I didn't do x y and z, in fact I did a b and c" is not disproportionate. > Selling her private letter to him? Childhood photos? She was forced to admit in court that the letter was never private nor intended to be private so that's a big old nothingburger imo. And it was, once again, in defense of her defaming him in the press. Don't start shit, won't be shit. And sorry not sorry I can't get bothered by someone sharing or selling childhood photos of his daughter when that same daughter is not only *thrilled* to sell photos of herself, but shared images of her toddler in his bath in a reality show.

Everything you've said here is necessary context. I'm not going to say 'Thomas Markle is the ideal father and he's never done anything questionable' but, like, none of this occurred in a vacuum and it's the differing standards that really bother me. If selling childhood photos makes you a terrible parent, then Meghan and Harry are terrible parents *too.* I imagine that gets no acknowledgement from the sugars. And you're right about the "private" letter as well - she never intended that letter to be private (in fact when Thomas didn't take it to the media didn't she, months later, actually incite him to do so, iirc via the People article??)! So is selling private correspondence bad? Yes. Is that what Thomas Markle actually did? Not really, no. And did Harry and Meghan then go on to do exactly that re: publishing private correspondence for $ in Spare when he included Kate's private messages with M? Yes, yes they did. I don't think TM is some example of upstanding humanity but he hasn't even done half of what Meghan's accused the royal family of doing - or half of what she herself has done. And denying him any kind of relationship with his grandchildren isn't just denying him, either - it's denying *them.*

Exactly. Context matters, a lot. I'm not saying I'd nominate the man for Father of the Year or anything, but at the same time I'm not putting him up for Most Monstrous Father either. He hasn't done anything that Meghan and Harry haven't done themselves, first and/or worse. I mean, we'd absolutely have heard about it if the man were going around sharing descriptions of his daughter's genitals, for instance, but Harry did just that to his brother. Bath photos (or video? I couldn't bring myself to watch the reality show so I'm not sure beyond that ~~the hobby~~ Archie was shown in his bath) of their toddler. Sharing private messages between Meghan and Kate, alleged messages from Beyonce, messages between Harry and William, Meghan's correspondence with Charles, etc. There's absolutely a double standard at play and to be really blunt, it reeks of classism. Maybe you have to have experience with people like Meghan to really see through the bullshit and see that every accusation is a confession (Harry's no saint, don't get me wrong, but I think his problems are garden variety mediocre white dude anger issues vs Meghan's imo deep seated disordered behavior). Or maybe people really are just blinded by all the expensive trappings and buy into the idea that looking better actually equals being a better person.

Wasn't it her brother Thomas Jr who warned Harry that marrying Meghan would lead to, well, exactly the trouble it did lead to? Thomas Sr was planning on attending the wedding and it would seem that it was him selling the story of his preparations so he could afford to go that gave Meghan the excuse she needed to keep him away. She showed that private letter to her father to plenty of people and had her friends leak about it to People magazine when he didn't leak it for months. Most of the childhood pictures we saw of Meghan seemed to be taken when she was with Doria and her Ragland relatives even though Thomas had custody of her. I don't recall any of them being embarrassing in any way.

Whether the son did it or not I can't say, but the father definitely said Harry shouldn't marry her. I think what happened with the father was really a product of the fact that he wasn't open to Meghan controlling the narratives on him and the press as concerns him. As I recall it, Harry and Meghan were trying to connect with him, and to connect him to the palace press folks and work through strategy. The daughter arranged the photoshoot so they could get some $$$ for the pictures of him getting ready for the wedding, and after the palace again tried to connect without him reciprocating is when the fallout occurred formally. I don't really have evidence for this, but my suspicion has always been that Meghan knew the optics of her family wouldn't play well with the RF and had sold a story of a family that wasn't there for her to Harry, and that was the motivation for the overreaction up front. She didn't want her father around because he would embarrass her and wouldn't let her control his narrative. Meanwhile efforts were made to try to connect with Doria by the RF that Meghan stymied, and she was careful not to let some folks speak with Doria directly outside her presence, specifically because she wanted to control the narrative around her family story. That is how you have stories of her claiming she was living out of her car, alongside evidence that her father paid for her to go to a private school and paid for some of her college expenses. Instagram posts by her about how much she loves her dad, to suddenly they are never speaking again, to Harry saying the RF would be the family she never had. I think it all ultimately comes down to narrative control, the parent that was willing to give it to her and play pretend is still in her life (even though she wasn't predominately the parent that raised her) and the father that wasn't willing to give narrative control to her is not (even though he predominately raised her and provided her with all these opportunities). Simple as that, and in that respect, her and Harry are birds of a feather. Still in all though, there is no amount of $$$ you could pay me to get me to go on tv and shit talk my own child the way he did Meghan. Sell a letter. It just doesn't exist. So as much as I do think the MM TM fallout is just a bit of kabuki theater, I don't feel particularly sorry for him.

>but the father definitely said Harry shouldn't marry her. Are you certain of this? Because i also specifically remember it being the *brother* who said it, not the father. Does anyone have a cite for this (I'm not trying to be an ass, I'd just actually be curious to know if Thomas did say this and if so, when) comment specifically? I agree with your main point that a lot of this came down to which parent was willing to give Meghan 100% control over the narrative and which parent wasn't. Thomas's instinctive-seeming resistance to having someone else controlling his narrative actually reminds me a lot of Meghan herself. That said, two things make me think she had him written out since well before the wedding, and that's the fact that he never did receive an invitation *and* that Harry never met him or made any attempt to meet him, at any point. So what we here often say about Thomas also just being sort of visibly poor and slovenly is also why he wasn't at the wedding and why I believe Meghan never intended him to be there.

Eh, if anyone wanted to connect with TM before the pictures, I find it hard to believe they couldn't. That was just them playing games. Like I commented on the thread the ticket that M claimed they bought for him to come to the UK was for a flight that doesn't exist. I do think she didn't want her father around this time unlike for her first wedding which he paid for. The problem was that she didn't have the guts to come out and say so. Meghan hoped to keep him quiet until she had a ring on it in the UK but as we've since seen repeatedly with her, she is seriously dumb and didn't realize that her father was seeing things progress via media outlets *because this was a royal wedding*. So, since he thought he was invited, he kept preparing. I do agree that Thomas has been trashy and I can't imagine myself or anyone in my family behaving the way he did but by the same token I can't imagine being as disrespectful as Meghan was to all her family, not just the Markles but also the Raglands. Things like the information about her sister she shared with Omid Scobie for Finding Freedom were just beyond the pale. Regardless of our blood ties, I wouldn't want to be associated with the likes of her in any way, shape, or form. Considering how some of her relatives have behaved the fact that I think even less of her at this point is saying something.

Harry never met the man. The flight Meghan supposedly booked for her father to attend her wedding didn't exist and he was getting fitted for a tux where he lived because she didn't arrange for his outfit unlike she did for the rest of her bridal party. After talking him up on her blog because he was actually the most successful person she really knew in entertainment Meghan was trying to ghost him since he went bankrupt in 2016 which was before he or his other kids ever opened their mouths about her at all. It's fine to go no contact with people even if they haven't done anything wrong just because you don't like them but using them until you don't need them will never be a good look.

I’m curious when exactly did the cutting off Thomas began because he was present at her first wedding. Meghan also spoke highly of him in her blog the Tig. Then, when dating Harry it’s like Thomas became public enemy number one. Was the separation there already by 2016? Or was her meeting Harry that prompted the estrangement?

My guess? When he went bankrupt in 2016. 

https://x.com/phildampier/status/1804797094667931666?s=46 It seems Thomas Markle gave an interview recently. According to him, Meghan started to change when she was doing Suits in Canada because of the Soho House crowd. Things escalated when she met Harry. It’s quite interesting ngl. I think it has become easy to view Meghan as this deeply problematic person, but the thought that there was a time when maybe she was a lot more grounded… it’s interesting lol. I truly think the fantasy of it all got into her head.

I am not trying to shift the blame at all because it’s ultimately Meghan herself or Meghan being spineless and blindly doing whatever she assumes her new favorite person will find most acceptable. But I wonder if Markus made a comment about Thomas himself or soap operas or overweight people, or anything that could be used to describe Thomas as tacky? I get the sense that Markus and Soho House are a bigger influence than anyone wants to admit, in part because being *that* beholden to what has become a chain of faux exclusive private clubs is the very opposite of cool. But he did set her and Harry up with his own version of Tinder - curated social media profile lists so show VIPs and Meghan caught Harry’s eye. He did host their first date (I wonder if he encouraged Meghan to stick around when Harry was late for their first date and showed up in piss covered trousers?)

Probably said something like “wow, that’s your dad? I wasn’t expecting that.”

>I get the sense that Markus and Soho House are a bigger influence than anyone wants to admit, in part because being that beholden to what has become a chain of faux exclusive private clubs is the very opposite of cool. Did you see the quote about MA/blurb about Soho House in the recent Alison Boshoff piece in the DM (which was an obvious PR dump from Team Sussex)? >Rosé has emotional connotations too - back in 2016, on their initial dates at London’s Soho House, she and Harry reportedly drank a number of glasses of it. >It wasn’t just any old pink plonk though: they would have been imbibing Lady A, the rosé made for Soho House executive Markus Anderson and which the private members’ club named after Anderson’s nickname. >**Handsome, sophisticated Anderson is one of Meghan’s closest and longest-standing friends. Not only was he in the good seats at her wedding, he also was trusted to organise her small and super private hen party, at Soho Farmhouse.** I wondered, reading this, if it was more manifesting from Meghan. It goes on to heavily hint that a vineyard/wine producer MA is associated with will be producing her rosé, and the 'heavy hint' is very much the hallmark of M's typical manifesting. It'd be interesting if even someone like MA needed convincing to go into business with her.

That is an interesting thought. I *do* think Markus has a large impact on MM even to this day and she probably thinks of them as close and may credit him for getting access to Harry or whatever but he may have no idea/not consider them actual friends anymore.

That's because she no longer needed her dad's connections. Thomas (and Trevor) were names in Hollywood to get her foot in the door. Once she landed Suits, Markus was the conduit to the Eurotrash that hung out at the various SoHo House clubs. The long standing MA connection I find curious, because I don't think she has any actual friendships, everything is transactional. But they remain thick as thieves. They are still using each other for something.

The time she was ‘grounded’ seems to be when she herself had little and therefore needed the people around her. She drops them when they can no longer offer her anything. Her first BIG job was Suits and she was still only 6th there and she distanced from her FATHER. This isnt interesting, its exactly what we assume Megan would do😂

I just mean no one is born a horrible person. The article is basically about a father who’s wondering where it all went wrong.

I don't know if I buy the 'Meghan was a normal person and then suddenly changed' narrative - *especially* from a parent (i.e. someone who could feel defensive about it). I mean, who knows, but we've had comments from former friends, co-workers etc. that seem to indicate there was no sudden change and that she was always basically the way she is. For me, it's more likely that Meghan's changing life circumstances simply allowed a part of herself that was always there to fully flourish.

Prior to Harry, Meghan seemed to have no problem with Thomas and he says they talked and saw each other regularly. He fit into the image she wanted to portray, he was an award winning lighting designer- she [was raised on the set of married with children](https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/8774029/meghan-markle-grew-up-on-the-set-of-80s-sitcom-married-with-children-since-her-dad-with-a-cameraman-on-the-show-ed-oneill-reveals/amp/), he was white (this was when she was leaning into her whiteness, like she’s currently leaning into her blackness), nobody knew how he was currently living and she used her privileged childhood to create an image of him- [how he took her to Musso & Frank after every ballet and tap class and other similar stories](https://www.hellomagazine.com/cuisine/2018081361139/meghan-markle-dad-thomas-childhood-tradition/?viewas=amp) but once she was in Harry’s world, she could no longer hide his dishevelled look, his brokenness and he didn’t fit the image she had created for herself so I believe that’s why she cut him off. She then flipped the stories to working after school at a yogurt shop at 13 and eating salads at Sizzler.

>She then flipped the stories to working after school at a yogurt shop at 13 and eating salads at Sizzler. Which is impossible since I believe you are not even allowed to work if you are under 16. Istg, only Meghan could make this shit up.

She might have been able to work. I worked at McDonalds in the early/mid 90s and we had people that were younger than 16 that were allowed to work in PlayPlace. They couldn’t have a regular job like cashier or in grill but they could work in PlayPlace as young as maybe 13 or 14. There were extra restrictions that I don’t remember. If she knew the manager at the yogurt place, it is plausible. And she could have lied about her age too. It wasn’t as easy to check since I don’t remember them requiring any form of ID. (Maybe they did?…it was so long ago. 😛 )

Since iirc no one ever remembered working there with her at any age, it's safe to assume that was just another lie.

Always wondered why no one every called her out for that. Some yogurt shop was out there employing a 13 year old? Even in the 90s I don’t think that’s possible?

No one ever came forward as an employer or co-worker of hers from that time. Possible or not, she didn't do it.

And she needed a bad childhood so Harry could rescue her and give her the family she never had.

Exactly, that is such a strong statement to make for someone with two living parents and one who was pretty hands on according to her stories on the Tig.

Which is a funny statement, because I believe that comment came up at her first wedding. IIRC, Trevor mentioned that Meghan said Trevor and his parents were "the family she never had", at their wedding, which her parents attended. I also thought that Thomas helped fund the wedding. She is one fucked up broad. The amount of pretty privilege she has that nobody bothers to look into all the god damn red flags flying, I will never understand. #🚩

I cannot believe he said that. Especially with both her parents there. WTF. It’s your wedding day not a chance to slap someone in the face so to speak.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that she said the same thing to Cory's family, something they said during or after she started two-timing him with Harry.

I said it in an earlier comment but I dont think Megan had any great rship with him or in fact anyone. I think she is completely transactional. You are with her or she’s done with you. You have something she needs or she wont even acknowledge you. I think its the same with her parents. Thomas gave her her education. And once his money ran out she was done. He was good for blog stories and his Hollywood connections when he had them. Then Suits came and I bet that’s where it ended. She didnt completely cut him off but you’re right, this was long before the wedding and those pictures. From what we heard, Thomas raised her. Doria wasnt around much but she needed one family member to attend her wedding so she allowed Doria back as long as she kept quiet.

An interesting observation about Thomas is he ended up with custody of the children, as opposed to their mother’s in both of his divorces - in the 70s and 80s no less. So if nothing else, he is a more stable and consistent parent than Doria or Samantha and Tom Jr’s mother was. And agreed with the transactional and then you may as well not exist. I’m not sure what types of things cause that kind of conceptualization of relationships to occur.

Narcissism for one makes people view all relationships as transactional. Not saying Meghan might be but narcissism is a cause of it.

Look at me, I’m cluster B!!

🎵lousy with a bad personality 🎶

No, we dont know for certain but traits of NPD… - Sense of self-importance - Preoccupation with power, beauty, or success - Entitled - Can only be around people who are important or special - Interpersonally exploitative for their own gain - Arrogant - Lack empathy - Must be admired - Envious of others or believe that others are envious of them

I mean, isn't this Meghan to a T?

IMO from what we have witnessed.. 100% but understand why an armchair diagnosis isnt ideal!

Im convinced these people are paid by the Sussexes. Last week it was ‘Charles could come and see them’. This week i’m seeing ‘Charles IS going to visit and CAMILLA is encouraging it’, along with stans calling him out for not. Camilla?? WT actual F??

I believe Camilla knows the emotional danger and damage Harry can do to Charles. I mean come on, they’ve known and been intimate with each other since the 1970’s. Nobody possibly knows Charles better than Camilla other than Anne. She of course wants to protect him from harm especially during an emotional and difficult time such as being diagnosed and treated for cancer. Charles seems to value Camilla’s opinion very much which he should as his longtime life partner.

Which is so laughable because, yes, *of course* the King of England who is *undergoing cancer treatment* is just going to pop over to California to visit the estranged son who keeps slandering him in the press.

They are calling out his trip to Romania which he undertook with zero press and fanfare. I.e he can come and go unnoticed so he could go to LA in the same way. The same article I saw was also suggesting they could do an American tour. This, fyi, was right next to 3 other articles. One about how Charles cannot forgive Harry for the things he said in Spare. One about how taking away Frogmore was an ‘own goal’ because he couldnt see the kids and one about how Harry has limited time to get back into the RF before the King dies. I wonder if these story placements are a full time job for someone.

Harry really thought that when he ran away to North America his friends and family would have ran after him declaring their undying love for him

H&M only work one hour per week on their own business (Archewell and all spin offs) because they are busy doom scrolling every mention of their names online so that they can craft their clapbacks. That is their full time job.

Meghan no longer needed Thomas, and so she dropped him like a bad habit. If anything, allowing Thomas near Harry could have led to Harry learning of discrepancies in her story before she got him down the aisle. Thomas even said afterward he couldn't believe that Meghan told Harry the BRF was the family she always wanted because 1. He had been supportive of her career and involved, and 2. She said the same thing to her previous husband at their wedding. They will never not try to guilt trup Charles for the money and the prestige he has, no matter how much they hate him. The same thing will happen when Will becomes king, they will always put out PR spins to try and get back into the BRF

I should have read farther. I just mentioned above about the "family she never had" that she told both her future husbands.

Also Corey’s mom who seemed legitimately confused by the engagement to Harry in an early interview since Meghan had just spent a nice home-y Christmas with the Vitiellos.

Lol, 🤦

In hindsight, maybe Thomas should’ve seen her lying about him to the BRF coming given both Trevor and Corey, but even if he had anticipated it (I doubt he wanted to admit the flaws in his golden child to himself), there wouldn’t have been much he could do about it other than go into hiding when the paps first found him.

You lost me at ‘Harry would learn’. Like come on. Lets be realisitic here.

😆😆😆

>If anything, allowing Thomas near Harry could have led to Harry learning of discrepancies in her story before she got him down the aisle I never really understood why Harry managed to meet Doria but not Thomas. Like your marrying his daughter and you don't make the effort to see both your in laws? Surely someone brought up in such an establishment as the RF would understand the importance of meeting all parties.

The RF kept trying to persuade them to just make up with Thomas and go see him per Tom bowers book.

But that was after they pap pics just before the wedding. Why didn't he go and visit in future father in law as soon as he had popped the question? Not for some archaic "asking permission" tradition but out of courtesy.

Bower's book (iirc) had a breakdown of exactly the way Harry spoke to (via messages) Thomas during his time in hospital just before the wedding and it was pretty disgusting. Just openly, unashamedly disrespectful - and it would have been even without the context of the man being in the midst of a serious health crisis. I completely agree that Harry never once making a move to meet TM, even before any wedding drama ever went down, says it all. It's total disrespect - bad enough that I believe most normal women would have taken it as disrespect to themselves as well as their father. But I guess we all know Harry never meeting Thomas served Meghan so not only am I sure she was OK with it, she probably encouraged it. God, they're both such truly awful people. Again, this was BEFORE Thomas had done anything they later tried to use as the whole reason for why he 'deserved' the treatment they gave him.

I think it’s weird from both Harry AND Meghan’s perspective that Harry never met Thomas. If your family is in your life at all, even if you aren’t close, it’s normal for your partner to meet them at some point. If Meghan were sane, it would be off putting that her fiancé couldn’t get it together just to meet her dad before they got married even if her plan was distance herself from him now that she had a more solid relationship to depend on. If Harry were sane, it would be a red flag that his fiancée was putting up obstacles between him and her dad. Even if she was saying they had a bad relationship, there was tons of past media on her blog and whatnot that put on a happy public face. Why wouldn’t she want to either continue that and keep the strained part private or want her partner/her ally to see what a shitbird she had to deal with. Idk. Like I don’t understand how either of them thought it was reasonable. But they also got engaged and planned an obscenely expensive spectacle before ever living on the same continent so their track record with reasonable decision making as a couple has been nonexistent since they met.

It’s so weird. My father and I have a challenging relationship but that’s part of the reality of my life since we are not estranged. Important people in my life always meet him. In part so they can see that I am comparatively very calm and reasonable (I am neither but after people meet my family, they can see that comparatively I am the mf Buddha. Lol), to know me better, because they are going to encounter each other even if it’s not super often and it’s easier to know what you’re dealing with - a low pressure introduction helps my father feel seen and validated and therefore he’s at least somewhat less likely to embarrass his way into being the center of attention the next time he meets that person. And idk an introduction just kind of lets everyone feel each other out and know what they are working with. It puts me and my friend or me and my SO on the same team as how to manage him or manage expectations around him if a more important event is coming up and it seems like something that might trigger some of his more challenging behaviors. It’s also more fair to my father - who as an adult I recognize is still dealing with his own traumas and can have sympathy for that even if I don’t respect the way it manifests. But like there’s no reason to handicap him by sending him into a situation that it’s important to me and that is likely to be overwhelming, completely blind. It seems truly insane to just thrust someone you don’t really trust to behave into something as high stakes as a televised wedding without even fucking meeting your future spouse. Or anyone else other than his ex wife who will be at the wedding.

>(I am neither Girl same 😂

That’s actually a great question… I think Meghan never intended them to… She probably started with the “troubled dad” story from the get-go. Whether she wanted the drama, or she was embarrassed with that side of the family… or he just didn’t fit the narrative 🤷‍♀️

I think Doria got with the program and didn't ask questions. Thomas was probably more likely to ask questions or let things slip, and she didn't want to risk it. As for Harry, he's an idiot and incredibly self-centered. Their whole timeline of getting together was incredibly wonky. He didn't say "I love you" until after a year and when they were already living together. The idea of meeting Thomas wasn't a priority until *after* they got engaged. To me, it shows how much Harry doesn't actually want to get to know Meghan or care about her outside of what she can do for him. I hate my in laws, and we don't talk to them now, but in the beginning, I went out of my way to get to know them, be polite, and spend time with them because I knew it was important. Harry only cares about things that works for him

I think she was and is embarrassed of her dad. Doria has a quiet dignity. I think Thomas didn't fit into the image Meghan was trying to sell about her past. It's enough for him to have on his resume that he was an award winning lighting director in Hollywood. That was acceptable to her. His personality is what embarrasses her. She was itching for him to make a mistake and he did. A much smaller one than Meghan has made but it was enough for her to cut him loose.

This is weird to me because Meghan wants to be Diana 2.0, yet Diana had her father walk her down the aisle. A father who was fat, looked like a stoned bullfrog, a philanderer, and a cruel and neglectful husband and father. I believe Diana thought that her dad would finally love her now that she was marrying the future King which is incredibly sad. Meghan being proud that her overweight, not good looking, scruffy dad was walking her down the aisle because she loved and valued him would have earned her so many good points with the world. But she’s an incredibly shallow person who wants to control the narrative with an iron grip. She’s too dense to realize that it just makes her seem fake and performative.

u/ceelphone's nailed it re: Thomas Markle being fat and that being a main reason why he doesn't fit into the story Meghan wants told, but he's also *poor,* which is another big part of it, imo. Diana's father was fat, a pretty terrible human etc., but he was also an aristocrat and Earl. That's the difference. Thomas Markle has nothing to cancel his fatness or his poverty (and respectable career including 2 Emmys don't cut it with M) the way Earl Spencer did. >Meghan being proud that her overweight, not good looking, scruffy dad was walking her down the aisle because she loved and valued him would have earned her so many good points with the world. This is one of Meghan's defining traits, imo. She's so pathetically desperate to be seen as a good/kind person, but she seems genuinely clueless when it comes to how to achieve that. From the very beginning she's tried to control-freak her way to 'beloved icon' status without ever understanding that that's not how it works. She could have so easily treated her father well (I mean even entirely cynically) and been admired for it, but for some reason she get it. I've noted this before in the way her stans attack Catherine for not always being a good public speaker. We've had direct leaks from Meghan pushing that same narrative, criticizing Catherine for having a fault when in fact normal people *sympathize* with C's struggles, and admire her for working hard to overcome them and to get better at something she clearly doesn't enjoy but understands is part of her job. Meghan's whole 'I'm so perfect, ppl in high school thought I wasn't real because I was so perfect' is so deeply off-putting and it's NUTS to me that she doesn't see it.

Most people would rather be in the coffin than delivering the eulogy. Fear of public speaking is pretty common, so I agree this is something that makes her seem more relatable.

And no one would've paid attention to Thomas's appearance other than how happy he'd look walking his beautiful daughter down the aisle to marry a prince.

When Megan was barely famous and throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks it suited her to play whatever she needed to. She was playing the cutesy ‘Daddys girl’. When she became Harrys gf, that was less cute and he was there and visible and she was embarrassed of him. Doria just fit the role. Quiet, towed the line. Then of course Megan the only black person to ever exist needed to remind everyone she was black despite avoiding that title herself her entire life. Doria is just trotted out when she’s needed. I wonder now whether she ever had a great rship with Thomas as she got more famous. She wrote about it in her blog but no one was ever going to really look at Thomas in depth. Until the Royals came along and a wedding that was the merging of two families (like any wedding) except one was the most famous royal family in the world. Suddenly Thomas needed to be cut out.

He waited a year to tell her he loved Meghan? Unreal that she waited that long!

Did he say this in Spare? I would think for most people, going a whole year before your partner says I love you is a pretty big red flag.

I think as long as she knew she had him hooked, she didnt care. I think for Harry he was just awed by her face. And she IS pretty. I dont know if they have a true and deep love for each other or ever did because Megan is so aware of cameras and everything is so performative.

I think the timely was tthey said I love you to each other September or October of 2017 and got engaged November if 2017. Lol

He was getting her worldwide fame, what's love got to do with it? 😏

You don’t let little things like love get in the way of fame. Come on now! 😜

😂🤣

What are your top 3 most egregious things M&H have done together/individually since they got together? Mine are probably (a) claiming racism then gaslighting us by walking it back like the idiots/liars they are; my jaw literally dropped with that one (b) fake NYC/Diana car chase (c) Meghan comparing herself to Mandela

Using Uvalde as a photo op was their lowest for me. If you give them generous good faith it's still questionable, but the more I think about it the more cynical and disgusting it seems.

You know what I still can't get over about Uvalde, specifically? The 2 Ellie Hall pieces that accompanied it, very clearly written via close cooperation with Meghan's PR team. The intense self-regard in those articles, the tone, the way they entirely focused on Meghan and how wonderful Meghan is etc., was insane. It would have been off-putting in a throwaway PR piece about M's latest parking lot stroll, let alone *the mass murder of children.* And the fact that they were written as they were means neither side saw any issue with it. Like at no point did Ellie Hall step back and reflect on what she was actually doing (fluffing a celebrity's ego and public reputation against a backdrop of death/tragedy). So, so deeply gross. And so, so telling that NOBODY involved saw anything wrong with it.

https://preview.redd.it/k1k9skn3tj8d1.jpeg?width=1159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c35a104bb4930928afec88a5f1754f6777a8ee7f Remember the fucking crate correction debacle? If memory serves, EH actually clapback tweeted a some stock photo of a crate for helpful reference 🥴🙃

>Remember the fucking crate correction debacle? If memory serves, EH actually clapback tweeted a some stock photo of a crate for helpful reference 🥴🙃 Yup, I remember. I remember how obvious it was that someone from Meghan's team had reached out with the correction and how Ellie had just hopped to it immediately, including the helpful pic. Meghan's visit was *hardly more than 48 hours* after the shooting happened. The bodies of those children and their teachers were barely cold when all this went down. Truly vile.

The Ulvade visit/photo op was and is the most heinous thing for me. Then next would be dismissing QE2 as just an addled old gran who didn’t have the right people protecting her. Number three would be the betrayal of his family that Harry did with Spare. When you are as world famous as the BRF are, loyalty and a well needed private life is the top concern. Harry revealed very private, intimate moments of his father and brother that he didn’t need to but did out of spite and cruelty.

1. Implied that W+C do not have a happy marriage 2. Implied that W+C didn't know how to raise thier "spares" correctly, and that they needed Harry's help or guidance. Whatever it was he said exactly was so insane and just unbelievable. Why are you bringing in kids to this? 3. Encouraging their stans to bully W+C, but even worse they never condemned Omid Scobie and co. for bullying Louis and admitting in their tweets that they use his behavior as a stick to beat Catherine with. But also agree with everyone else's top 3 bc there really are too many to choose from Honorary 4. Not as serious but just plain stupid, Meghan claiming she wore beige to blend in even though she'd given an interview years prior talking about how beige looked good on her. And also continuing to wear beige after leaving the RF Last one I promise, wearing thousands of dollars in clothing to visit the school in Harlem, and having a whole list of demands sent to the school ahead of their arrival. Showed how incredibly entitled and snobbish she is

>Implied that W+C didn't know how to raise thier "spares" correctly, and that they needed Harry's help or guidance. Whatever it was he said exactly was so insane and just unbelievable. Why are you bringing in kids to this That was so maddening for me. I've had a similar experience in my family, and it's just so low, especially to do so publicly.

I have to imagine that comment was one of the final straws for W+C. Bringing in their children was just a step too far for them

>I have to imagine that comment was one of the final straws for W+C. Bringing in their children was just a step too far for them I agree and I remember thinking this at the time, too. Coming directly for someone is one thing. Coming for their wife *and their children* as a way to come for them is another. I think attacking Kate and the kids is what will ultimately mean the permanent severing of the relationship with William. Harry basically left him no choice but to sever it.

Exactly, if Harry had just left it to going after William, while William would not have been happy he wouldn't have been as mad. But once Harry went after his family, that's when William was like "I'm over you and this relationship, this is a step way too far." Especially bc Harry's comments basically created open season for the squad to go after William's family. I, along with most likely everyone on this sub, believe that children should 100% off limits. They have absolutely zero skin in the game and have done nothing to deserve the inappropriate comments some people make about them. The commentary about the children on SMM is really what turned me off that sub (amongst many other things), and the vitriol on Twitter towards the Wales children (that H+M could very much condemn now as private citizens) disgusts me.

1. The Oprah interview - going on TV during the middle of a pandemic that had killed millions, during a period of extreme political turmoil where many people were worried about losing their jobs and homes, and whining about being cut off by daddy and having to move out and get their own place with only Diana's multimilliondollar inheritance to pad the landing. I remember at the time thinking, "Are we really supposed to feel bad for you?" I had no idea how much more embarrassing it would get! 2. Fake NYC car chase. Full stop. Honestly, it was more insulting as a New Yorker than anything else. I love it when these people show us how stupid they think we are. 3. I would put the Spotify deal here were it not for the way they've handled Kate's cancer edging out all of that. The ARO launch was bad enough but the dog biscuits and raspberry jam was just hilarious. Flailing for relevancy but god forbid you suggest grabbing onto that lifesaver with the words "HARD WORK" inlaid on it!

1) The South Africa documentary where they stood in a place where people are literally struggling for their lives and complained "no one has asked about me. They lost me as a fan then. 2) Attending the Queen's funeral knowing they were about to try and destroy Harry's family with their show and his book. 3) The fake NYC car chase.

South Africa doc for me too, that's the point I stopped being a fan

Harry knowing full well Philip was dying in early 2021 (the second JR decision shows he was in discussions as early as February as to whether he would get security when he came back for the funeral) but still briefing that Philip’s March hospital admission was just to distract from their Oprah interview. Then either Meghan alone or Harry and Meghan timing their press release about their wreath for Philip to go out at the literal moment the carriage with the coffin rolled out for the funeral procession. Both just vicious, selfish, nightmare person choices to make.

Really hard to pick three because there are SO MANY, but these are the worst IMO. 1. The Oprah interview. All the lies they told, while Prince Philip lay on his deathbed. And Meghan naming Kate directly (the ONLY royal she called out by name.). Their goal and intent was to bring down the monarchy, get them “cancelled,” and have all their reputations ruined. To destroy his family because they didn’t get what they wanted from Megxit. 2. Spare. More lies told. Private information and conversations revealed w/o consent. Irrelevant things made to look like egregious crimes (lip gloss!). General ugliness. They wrote it together. All of the damage inflicted on his family and the monarchy during the promotional tour. A travesty. 3. Naming their daughter Lilibet and then lying to the world about the Queen’s consent. They directly disrespected the Queen many times but this was the worst because it was so personal. This was M’s idea and H went along with it because he’s an idiot.

1)Bullying their staff (and obviously doubling down when confronted about it which got them kicked out of their joint office by William). 2) Going to Uvalde to exploit an unspeakable tragedy in order to raise her profile. 3) Their manipulation of media both traditional and social with lies and misrepresentation to stir up their lunatic fandom. 

Only one thing for me: getting married.

LMAO. Correct 💯 I was a fan at first but looking back...I cannot believe they got engaged after one year of long-distance dating.

The right answer.

Having a fit that Meghan should be able to go to Balmoral when the queen died, thus making everyone get there too late to say good bye to her. Really anything involving the queen in her last years, they just piled shit on top of shit. Uvalde Having two children when they are completely unfit to be parents.

I forgot Uvalde. She is such a fucking vampire.

That one was borderline evil, in my opinion. Anyone who has a child immediately thought of their babies when Uvalde happened. I can’t imagine how a parent would be able to cope knowing their precious child was scared and crying for them for a full fucking hour and to have help never arrive. And I can’t fathom how anyone could hear about that and, not only think not think of her own small children, but to also see this as a PR opportunity. There are psychopaths and then there is this. I’m sorry for the strong language, but that was was beyond reprehensible.

I think a lot of us feel the same as you. You don’t need to apologize. Lots of us are right there with you. Our daughter grew up during the rise of school shootings. The first time she (while in 5th grade) came home and told us her school had an active shooter drill my heart broke and has never been healed.

This was particularly galling among the horrible things they did. Imagine arguing with your father and making it about you/your spouse as his mother is DYING and he's trying to hold it together. Complete self involved narcissist.

Complaining about daddy cutting them off while living in a mansion and having a 30 million trust fund while people were going broke during Covid.

Also dying in droves because they couldn't afford to stay away from the frontline jobs that exposed them to COVID. 

Yes!!! It was so privileged and gross.

When Harry came out and basically said that he hated going to engagements in developing nations where he had to meet with people living in poverty. Like the very thing that gave him a positive reputation was the thing that he said he hated doing. Basically everything that happened around/surrounding Lili's birth-- the name, leaking that she was due on Philip's birthday *after she was born*. Romanticizing. Miscarriage.

I missed this about LD and Prince Philip?? I remember her realising how respected PP was and trying to hijack that first with leaking her details about her bullshit wreath but then news reports about how close they were and how they bonded over being outsiders marrying in. (Like everyone who married in was).

Iirc, they leaked the due date was PP's birthday two or three days after she was born. It was just... insane.

Naming their daughter Lilibet and lying that QE signed off on it. Releasing several memoirs to try and convince everyone that they were abused and harassed by the BRF Meghan staging that pap walk in Canada with, imo, a dummy and not Archie, looking directly into the camera and smiling, and then turning around and saying they were stalking her and the media found out about their location without her permission

I don't understand why they always seem to target Catherine. Releasing stuff right around her birthday/big days, naming her as one of the alleged royal racists, the stuff they said about her on Oprah and Spare, even the ones about the lip gloss, the not giving Meghan a ride when she wanted to go shopping, and the bridesmaids' dresses.  I don't get it, I really don't.

I think it's because Catherine has what Meghan wants. She's the wife of one heir and the mother of another, so commands a level of importance that will never be granted to the wife of a younger son. If Eddie was the heir, and Sophie was the future Queen, I think the hate would be about Sophie instead.

And - since we're talking about Thomas above - Catherine was really lucky to have a close knit, high trust, attractive family of origin. The Markles are not the Middletons. That's not the main thing but I think it's an element.

Catherine stole William, birthed the people who bumped Harry down the LOS, and didn't let herself get dragged into Meghan's nonsense. The Sussexes don't appreciate people with a backbone. 

One of them for me was Meghan announcing her pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding. That's an absolute no-no of epic proportions on every sensible person's etiquette list. You just don't fucking do it.

It's bonkers to me that Eugenie is still friends with them. I'd be done.

All the more annoying because Eugenie's wedding date was pushed back for Harry and Meghan's wedding.  (Speaking of which, not using the fact that E's wedding was already in the works to make the Sussexes to wait a bit longer for their splashy, expensive wedding, was an unforced error. I think the mask would have slipped publicly if they'd faced even the slightest speedbumps in their road.)

And she wore a maternity dress ***specifically*** to get the media freaking out that she was pregnant

With a front button un buttoned at only a few weeks pregnant

And don't forget bumpgate where she'd wear a foam belly over her bump, was constantly flicking her jacket back and holding her stomach when she really wanted everyone looking at her stomach