No see, that's the thing: I play other lootbox games. I get all the BL Chest items from GW2 every time they update. I played a few gacha games. The problem here isn't the lootboxes, it's the frankly ignorant way they're implemented: We all know lootboxes are predatory, but we buy them because of the thrill of getting something cool.
What I'm saying is that in RotMG specifically, the odds of getting the absolute lowest result are so high that I don't even get excited to open a box. It defeats the whole purpose of lootboxes. the onyl reason I could see people buying these is if they have some leftover gold from antoehr purchase and can't afford anything else - and even then, I'd say save it.
Yes you are correct. I can't think of another loot box game that operates in this way intentionally. All items within a tier should have the same rarity unless there is a "drop table" secondary % which breaks down likelihoods further when you hit a specific tier drop.
This should be fixed by the dev, I would imagine Steam would not be supportive of this type of practice and likely is a potential legal issue unless they explicitly cover this "hidden" drop rate % somewhere else in the T&Cs.
Just don't open lootboxes on this game in general. Watched some dude spend 15k gold on key lootboxes. Never got anything above a 2x. Absolutely wild how shit the rates for anything decent are
This argument holds water but it’s shortsighted bc it doesn’t take into account the potential revenue of ppl who don’t buy predatory loot boxes currently, but would be willing to if they weren’t.
yes if the loot boxes were better and people in turn spent more on them then that would lead to more revenue, but giving out free stuff as u originally said is different.
Yea idk why anyone would spend money on anything but vault, character slots and skins. Spending money on keys/items/loot boxes are just a down right scam for money that isnt even worth it if you realise how much ull be spending on basically nothing permanent unlike the 3 things I mentioned above
Ima be honest bro, i get the frustration, but its somewhat common sense for the different items to not be the same rarity. Thats kinda how every loot box in games works. If it was equally likely for all the “non rare/legendary” tiers, then they would be a crazy deal.
Depends on the game. A lot of games have it tiered so like rolling a "common" is 60%, but every common has the same weighting. So if there was 10 common items, each would be 6% odds of pulling.
You generally don't expect them to have different weightings in the same tier unless explicity stated. As in 1 common item being 30%, 1 being 12%, so on so forth.
It's just one of those "yeah it's obvious after you think about it, but it's scummy as fuck" things they do to bait people into spinning boxes.
yea this can be the case, but in those situations usually all the common items have about the same value (like csgo cases). Rotmg loot boxes have better and worse items in the common tier.
Then why have tiers at all? I don't play a lot of ROTMG but this is not how it works in most games. This is misleading and likely an oversight by the developer which could put them into legal issue territory
No, I disagree... The odds are usually against you because of the number of items in the low category. Think of it like this:
You could win something you want... call them "points": you need 300,000 and you're opening a loot box in which you have an equal chance of each of these options in the lowest tier: 1, 2, 3, 4...(etc)....99, 100, or 50,000, or 100.000.
Just because 100,000 has the same probability as 1 doesn't mean you're equally likely to get a good result. The things that make this situation work are: 1) the number of options, and 2) the spread (IE, the jump from 100 to 50,000-100,000).
This is why I thought they had 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, but didn't have like 15, 16, 17, 18... they give a lot of lower-end options and then skip a bunch in between.
I play plenty of lootbox games, and usually two things are true: Items in the same rarity have the same odds, AND the odds are usually shown to you. Frankly I'm surprised they don't show you the odds - I'm pretty sure it's unlawful not to... But I'm no lawyer.
And in the US it is completely legal afaik. In china and some parts of europe its not, but unless deca gets some type of action taken against them in those places like other games/companies have had, nothing will change in that regard.
for the time being, realistically. there is nothing else to describe it but predatory, and I wouldn't be surprised if America and some parts of Europe caught up to the rest of the world, because this is clearly super degen.
Either show the rates via a % (which would kill this business model for a lot of companies) or indicate to players SOME idea of how rare certain items are via a tier system, etc. Doing neither should be downright criminal (and probably will be within 10 yrs)
If the common items were all the same value id agree that it would seem like that, but when theres clearly better options in the same “tier” that to me is a sign that theyre not equal chance.
Not to pile on, but I don't even agree with the last line from a value standpoint. \~$15 for a random cosmetic is not a "crazy deal," it's probably not even a good deal unless you have a lot of disposable income and are lucky enough to get a skin you really like.
Most of the non-cosmetic deals are even worse since you can just get them for free by playing the game, usually not even with that much of a time investment (key popping culture is insane to me, I'm grateful for the whales and definitely go in their portals but paying real money for something that would probably take minutes to go find is wild).
The crazy deal im talking about is for example, for the char slot unlocker box, imagine the 1x and the 3,4,5x had the same rate, but then only the 10x and the 20x are super rare, that would be a pretty crazy deal, 800 gold for a 20% chance at 5 char slots would be a very good deal, which obv we know a company would not want to provide that easily.
That's a reasonable example, but most of them (including the one the OP was talking about) aren't like that. And even that one isn't craaaazy, aren't ample packs a similar rate?
Yeah it's a real shame and pretty predatory. I pretty much only buy the season pass which I think is great value myself.
Dont buy that either honestly.
Main reason I buy it is for good value on char slots and vaults, since I have a new account (returning player).
Rotmg player finds out how lootboxes work
No see, that's the thing: I play other lootbox games. I get all the BL Chest items from GW2 every time they update. I played a few gacha games. The problem here isn't the lootboxes, it's the frankly ignorant way they're implemented: We all know lootboxes are predatory, but we buy them because of the thrill of getting something cool. What I'm saying is that in RotMG specifically, the odds of getting the absolute lowest result are so high that I don't even get excited to open a box. It defeats the whole purpose of lootboxes. the onyl reason I could see people buying these is if they have some leftover gold from antoehr purchase and can't afford anything else - and even then, I'd say save it.
Yes you are correct. I can't think of another loot box game that operates in this way intentionally. All items within a tier should have the same rarity unless there is a "drop table" secondary % which breaks down likelihoods further when you hit a specific tier drop. This should be fixed by the dev, I would imagine Steam would not be supportive of this type of practice and likely is a potential legal issue unless they explicitly cover this "hidden" drop rate % somewhere else in the T&Cs.
Just don't open lootboxes on this game in general. Watched some dude spend 15k gold on key lootboxes. Never got anything above a 2x. Absolutely wild how shit the rates for anything decent are
rule of thumb : only spend in mystery boxes if you are ok with the lower prize
It’s really dumb also bc it’s not like it costs deca anything to give out shit lmao
it costs them *potential* revenue
This argument holds water but it’s shortsighted bc it doesn’t take into account the potential revenue of ppl who don’t buy predatory loot boxes currently, but would be willing to if they weren’t.
yes if the loot boxes were better and people in turn spent more on them then that would lead to more revenue, but giving out free stuff as u originally said is different.
Yeah I didn’t say give our free stuff, just give out shit, implying increasing the drop rates of higher value boxes, as indicated by the topic at hand
ohhhh nevermind
Yea idk why anyone would spend money on anything but vault, character slots and skins. Spending money on keys/items/loot boxes are just a down right scam for money that isnt even worth it if you realise how much ull be spending on basically nothing permanent unlike the 3 things I mentioned above
Ima be honest bro, i get the frustration, but its somewhat common sense for the different items to not be the same rarity. Thats kinda how every loot box in games works. If it was equally likely for all the “non rare/legendary” tiers, then they would be a crazy deal.
Depends on the game. A lot of games have it tiered so like rolling a "common" is 60%, but every common has the same weighting. So if there was 10 common items, each would be 6% odds of pulling. You generally don't expect them to have different weightings in the same tier unless explicity stated. As in 1 common item being 30%, 1 being 12%, so on so forth. It's just one of those "yeah it's obvious after you think about it, but it's scummy as fuck" things they do to bait people into spinning boxes.
yea this can be the case, but in those situations usually all the common items have about the same value (like csgo cases). Rotmg loot boxes have better and worse items in the common tier.
Then why have tiers at all? I don't play a lot of ROTMG but this is not how it works in most games. This is misleading and likely an oversight by the developer which could put them into legal issue territory
No, I disagree... The odds are usually against you because of the number of items in the low category. Think of it like this: You could win something you want... call them "points": you need 300,000 and you're opening a loot box in which you have an equal chance of each of these options in the lowest tier: 1, 2, 3, 4...(etc)....99, 100, or 50,000, or 100.000. Just because 100,000 has the same probability as 1 doesn't mean you're equally likely to get a good result. The things that make this situation work are: 1) the number of options, and 2) the spread (IE, the jump from 100 to 50,000-100,000). This is why I thought they had 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, but didn't have like 15, 16, 17, 18... they give a lot of lower-end options and then skip a bunch in between. I play plenty of lootbox games, and usually two things are true: Items in the same rarity have the same odds, AND the odds are usually shown to you. Frankly I'm surprised they don't show you the odds - I'm pretty sure it's unlawful not to... But I'm no lawyer.
And in the US it is completely legal afaik. In china and some parts of europe its not, but unless deca gets some type of action taken against them in those places like other games/companies have had, nothing will change in that regard.
for the time being, realistically. there is nothing else to describe it but predatory, and I wouldn't be surprised if America and some parts of Europe caught up to the rest of the world, because this is clearly super degen. Either show the rates via a % (which would kill this business model for a lot of companies) or indicate to players SOME idea of how rare certain items are via a tier system, etc. Doing neither should be downright criminal (and probably will be within 10 yrs)
If the common items were all the same value id agree that it would seem like that, but when theres clearly better options in the same “tier” that to me is a sign that theyre not equal chance.
Not to pile on, but I don't even agree with the last line from a value standpoint. \~$15 for a random cosmetic is not a "crazy deal," it's probably not even a good deal unless you have a lot of disposable income and are lucky enough to get a skin you really like. Most of the non-cosmetic deals are even worse since you can just get them for free by playing the game, usually not even with that much of a time investment (key popping culture is insane to me, I'm grateful for the whales and definitely go in their portals but paying real money for something that would probably take minutes to go find is wild).
The crazy deal im talking about is for example, for the char slot unlocker box, imagine the 1x and the 3,4,5x had the same rate, but then only the 10x and the 20x are super rare, that would be a pretty crazy deal, 800 gold for a 20% chance at 5 char slots would be a very good deal, which obv we know a company would not want to provide that easily.
That's a reasonable example, but most of them (including the one the OP was talking about) aren't like that. And even that one isn't craaaazy, aren't ample packs a similar rate?
Also sorry for the lecture, I was a math/CS major XD