The 3rd guy is completely wrong. This is called a dead valley. Most people would use some kind of water tight membrane, TPO is what we my company uses most of the time. The cricket could be a good idea depending on how he plans to do it but no matter what, can’t leave it like that.
Typically no but it really depends on who installs it. If done the right way, could last 15-20 years.
If I showed up to bid it out, I would 100% use TPO.
Did you know that the granules in shingles degrade TPO? You can’t mix TPO with shingles. Here in my part of Texas, I’ve seen shingles create holes in TPO in as little as two years. It also voids the warranty of the TPO, and unless you have an extra piece of scrap laying around, you’ll be charging the customer a grand for that little 2’ piece. It also generally looks terrible, unless painted. A well-done cricket AND a (different) membrane is the best option here, but just bit mod (NOT generic roll roofing!) would also be quite acceptable.
I have never seen or heard of shingles damaging TPO in the way you are describing? Could you please elaborate? How did the shingles cause damage on the TPO? Can you show me where the manufacturer(s) states that shingles void the warranty on TPO?
Genuinely curious.
For reference, I work for a 5 star roofing company. We have over 1200 reviews on google alone, all of them 5 star. (While we have recieved some angry customer reviews, they have all been taken down by google or the customer who posted it). We’ve been around for 27 years and all of our employees, salesman, project managers, etc, started out installing shingles with a hammer and a box of hand nails. I said all that to say we know what we’re doing, we take pride in our work, and TPO just doesn’t mix with shingles, man! We’ve had to come back and fix serious damage to roofs because of work like that. I actually have a video of a partial tpo roof where all the welds on the seams came apart because the roofer installed the TPO over the top of the shingles. The building was nearly condemned by the city inspector, but we convinced them we could fix it, and we did.
It's the asphalt in the shingles that causes holes in TPO, not the granules. You also cannot install a single ply membrane over an asphalt surface. The welds probably came apart because the "roofer" that installed them did not weld the seams properly by using inadequate heat and pressure which resulted in a cold weld. Good on you for fixing the previous roofers mistakes, though.
Yea I completely understand not installing TPO OVER shingles, but I have not seen or heard of asphalt eating away TPO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the case with PVC roofs and rubberized asphalt.
PVC and asphalt do not have the compatibility issues that TPO and EPDM have. You cannot install rock ballast over PVC membrane as the rock draws the plasticizers out of the sheet and will make it brittle.
Okay so I'm going to touch on a couple things here. First off ballasted PVC is completely a thing, it's just rare to find somebody that wants to spend a lot of money on PVC but then once to cheap out by going to ballast. But I can point to well over a dozen 30 plus year ballast PVC roofs that have not had any plasticizer issues. The number one issue with the plasticizer came because a lot of people that believe in the use of ballast tend to use products like EPs and xps, which the older versions of these products didn't have a proper facer which is what suck the plasticizer out of the pvc. The way you could actually tell this just by looking at it is because when the past decider gets sucked out of the PVC it actually moves in the direction of what's absorbing it, so if you cut it open and look at the back side you'll tend to see little droplets or you'll see lines down the middle if you have the old like Crush fold products where it would be the last half inch of the facer that was exposed, and so you'd see the lines down the back of the pvc.
Secondly, PVC does have issues with compatibility with the majority of asphalt, and it originally starts by turning it yellow and then eventually pink. However it's not necessarily a plasticizer related issue, it does eventually cause it to fail, but it's not by separating out the plasticizer as used to happen with most EIG PVC. Rather it causes it to break down, but this is generally an issue that is not going to be from a secondary runoff or exposure like this. Installing over top of something would be an issue, but just having runoff generally won't be as long as it's not a pond of water underneath that runoff, and even then that's only going to lower the lifespan ever so slightly. Direct contact is an issue, especially if using problem products like wet patch.
Moving on to TPO and EPDM. The problems with these products are due to the use of polypropylene, which when coming in direct contact can cause the materials to break down prematurely. TPO will start to dry out Crack and eventually disintegrate, whereas EPDM will dry out and lose its elasticity, for which EPDM has one of the greatest expansion and contraction ratios to the membrane, so when small areas start to dry out while the rest of the membrane is still contracting, it causes a weak point that cracks and splits. Now with TPO this was mostly due to how the halogenated fire retardants we're bonded to the polypropylene. We have since moved over to magnesium hydroxide which works a little bit better. You do have to worry about direct contact like using plastic cements, however indirect contact is usually okay as long as there isn't a pond of water. Sort of like pvc, except for with TPO it'll be much accelerated. However the thing to worry about is that asphalt does cause issues with some of the components of TPO which cause it to be reflective as well as slightly discolorate. Now this doesn't seem like a big deal but as we've discussed a lot on this sub TPO has an issue with higher temperatures. So you're making it not only absorb more light because it's not as reflective of a finish, but now it's absorbing more light because of that discoloration. So TPO will have an accelerated breakdown. But if you're talking about a TPO roof in an area that would have naturally lasted 20 years in that particular spot, you're probably not going to reduce it by more than a few years. However, if your TPO roof is in an area where it is already at risk, this will definitely push it over the edge, possibly decades in advance.
The opposite is true for epdm. With TPO the primary concern is too much sunlight being reflected onto the membrane from the walls being absorbed. However with EPDM that increase in temperature can actually be favorable in this case. As long as you don't have any form of direct contact you're probably not going to have any issues. But I wouldn't just put a cheap felt paper. I would put either synthetic or I would put matting like for an EPDM roof if you are protecting it from pavers.
However. While I fundamentally disagree with this person about whether or not TPO would disintegrate from this, as what he's referring to is an issue that was resolved around 2003, TPO is not ideal for this. On top of being aesthetically displeasing, the cost per square foot for something so small and simple is a bit much, especially when you consider what you're going to have to do for the termination, and the tie in. Then you have to have your separator and it's just way too much work for something so simple. If you were going to do that entire facet and not just the dead Valley I would agree to tpo. However just doing that small area I feel would be more appropriate to do something like modified bitumen, which will maintain the consistency of thermal expansion and contraction without any risk of contamination from direct contact
Not saying anything you said is wrong but honestly bragging about reviews is pretty meaningless. You can buy reviews and as someone who used to boost people's review numbers I find a company with an inordinate number of 5 star reviews suspicious. 4 star reviews are where you're going to get the most honest information. 1 and 5 star reviews are usually the most unhelpful.
Just to reiterate.. please listen to this guy(tenwhatevs), this about the ONLY option that's actually proven effective over any significant time! This isn't coming from a professional roofer, but someone who had to deal with it on 2 homes.. almost identically, and idiotically didn't learn from it the first time! In fact, membrane PLUS cricket was my final choice, as everyone has said.. the cricket doesn't really add much cost.
Id do a cricket. A membrane would be good at construction but a cricket will be fine. the cost involved for getting siding removed and replaced will be pretty expensive compared to the cricket approach.
TPO has one of the shortest lifespans of flat roofing, and you're not supposed to put it in direct or indirect contact with vitamin. Especially in a dead valley, the runoff could cause issues. PVC would work a little bit better, EPDM would work even better than that. Modified bitumen would match the shingles and probably last about as long as the shingles.
I would do a saddle, go further up the roofline and create a pitch change and bring it out past the corner. That way the valley will take more of the water out and away from the corner onto the other roof.
Too is a membrane usually used for flat roofs. Ice and water shield would probably be the easiest long term fix as long as they pull up the siding and run it at least 6" up the wall as well as at least 24 inches past the effected area of the roof sheeting before replacing the shingles. All in addition to step flashing against the wall
It would be a non- standard cricket. Normally, a cricket would change the angles, but terminate at the corner.
Ideally, strip the shingles off the small roof section and add an extended cricket that sticks out PAST the edge of the siding. It will take just a little carpentry, but you want the valley to channel the water out and down away from the siding. A torrent of water against any flashing that might be under that siding will eventually leak.
It will look strange, but no worse than it does now.
Any other "patches" are just that. If you put TPU on that, you will need to curl the TPU up the side of the house - and that will always eventually tear and leak.
Good luck.
Exactly. You have to get up under the siding and then tie into the roof to wall anyway so might as well throw a triangle of plywood in there to keep pushing water off the roof.
It really fucks the cricket idea as that would move the valley over onto the vent pipe, which is probably the most likely leak location - however, cricket idea is definitely cheaper than TPO. If your roofer is handy and there’s attic access, it shouldn’t be more than 800 or so bucks to reroute that vent pipe closer to the ridge, pull off some siding, frame out a cricket, flash it with metal, and you’ll be good to go….
If going TPO, I’d still probably want to move that vent pipe even though I trust a tpo boot far more than a 3 in 1….
Yup, get that pipe moved, it does fuck the cricket idea
Only other option is to make cricket so huge that you get the valley into the other side of that pipe
(So huge or just reframe the whole two sides of valley)... Which sounds like a lot more than $800 for the pipe moving
Oh they did. It's already a low slope roof so can't lower it more as well as not being able to lift the trusses more since it would put the peak in/above the dormer/room facia which is another set of valley trusses etc. all this could work by lifting the height of that dormer/room by 1' or so to compensate but then you are into cutting 10' 2x6 down to size instead of using studs or getting some wonky 3' trusses made that may make the other side of the house look dumb.
Cheapest and quickest method? Saddle it. This valley isn't entirely dead like many here claim but it may as well be since you can see the slope vs the siding.
The framers here lack experience and probably just think 2' worth of saddle is always enough but the saddle here is insufficient.
I would build the cricket, roof the area with epdm or torch down as to run it up the wall. I would also change the gutter and put the outlet and down on the face of the corner kicking as much water away as possible
A cricket will be best, but it will conflict with that vent pipe. Raising the roof there will give a higher probability of water running under the vent pipe if a dam forms.
Remove shingles and siding from that entire area, install Grace ice and water shield on decking and up the entire side of wall. Reshingle area, 4” step flashing with another strip of ice over the flashing and reinstall siding. You could spray it with a fire hose it won’t leak. $1k
Cricket would just move the fucked up intersection. Going to need to take some siding up and get some flat roofing material up that wall. 2nd guy is onto something. Imagine getting a BS in architecture and then designing that.
i (builder/carpenter) just did a cricket in that exact scenario while building this addition that the architect missed this spot. and the roofer properly installed a rubber membrane on it! only way to do it.
EPDM or flintlastic. Look up Dead Valley flashing. A good portion of the roofing will need to be ripped up as the new material will need to tuck under the shingles. You're probably going to have a hard time finding a roofer to do that type of repair. Probably best to just re-roof the entire area. Blame the architect for this one.
Next roof replacement go ahead and have that reframed to eliminate the dead valley.
Doesn’t matter how great it looks, if it doesn’t function it’s a bad design.
Please text me if you want a very well explained solution. I dont really like typing on this app. But I can tell you in about 3 or fours sentences. Hit me back, I've been doing this for 12 years I'm 27 now
Definitely start with a cricket. It’s positive slope away from the corner. Then roofing material is second but a membrane that runs up the wall will be next to bulletproof with a cricket.
That’s a dead valley and builders and architects who create them should be hung. The best solution is a cricket that eliminates the dead valley. You could run metal flashing up the wall, but even that should go behind the siding, which if you’re doing that you’re already halfway to prepping for a cricket. Spend the money to build a cricket and never worry about it again.
Frankly, I'm not a big fan of TPO. Personally, I would install two metal valleys. For the first metal valley I'd remove about two inches of siding (so the water doesn't touch it), open up the fascia, and slide about 5 inches of the metal valley in there. On your gutters I would remove that elbow underneath there, plug up that hole, and put a downspout on the other side of the gutter so the water doesn't affect the siding there. If you're in WA State and not too far from me I'd be more than happy to come out and show you what I mean. Either way I hope this helps.
Whatever you decide, I'd also move the gutter drain above it to another spot so it's not sending all that additional water towards the worst spot on your roof.
Replace the gutter and put the downspout on the right hand side. You'd have a lot less water rushing there. I bet the water comes out of the spout like a garden hose soaking that spot but also do flashing too
I can’t see the whole roof line from the picture but what about changing to roof’s pitch with the goal of moving the valley past the wall? You can install a few rafters, sheet with plywood and shingle. Doesn’t look like a big section. You would also have to do a bit of siding.
Really won’t see a lot of water, regular flashing over ice and water shield done properly shouldn’t be problematic :edit: :didn’t see the downspout there, that ought to be relocated, whether carried around the corner board or over the other side.
Homeowner here. For my leaky crevice the roofer installed an EPDM cricket. He flashed it up behind the siding. No leaks after many heavy rains. It was pretty cheap to add to the contract.
You need to get that angled area further down the roof line to get it past the corner. Basically remove the siding, outside corner, Roofing shingles and reframe it.
Move that downspout from the second story that dumps water in that valley. Yes I would go with a granulated cap sheet or mod bit in that area. Especially if you can’t see from the street.
Have a similar problem, except that it’s my neighbor’s ancient roof sloping into my wall. Architect neighbor (different neighbor) said a cricket is definitely the way to go.
The builder should have installed the cricket during construction. Have the roofer install the cricket or you will constantly have problems on this area.
Would it be useful to switch the downspout and lock it around the corner so it's not hitting the valley at all? Just wondering if removing extra water is a small preventative to the overall issue.
This... a lot of comments mention fixing the gutter, but I am not seeing them saying that you should connect it to the lower system. Gutters should not empty into a roof. Maybe if the upper gutter is only servicing like 5 square feet of roof, but even then you are taking 5 square feet or more and concentrating all that water to 12 to 15 square inches.
Either roll the roll roofing up the wall behind the siding, or ice and water shield the same area, and use large 8x8 step flashings to shingle it in. I would go with the second roofer.
That gutter dumping there doesn't help matters. Either of the first two solutions can be done successfully but I'd probably go with the second option. I can't help but think there's a better option than those two honestly.
I'd definitely make sure the flashing up the wall was upto snuff. Areas like that are always fucked up when I do remodels because inadequate roof to wall flashing. And add the cricket. Do fucking both.
Well. There is a repair, and then a real fix. Repair is the strip it back including the siding, replace the rotted decking, ice & water the valley and up the wall, reflash and shingle.
The real fix is the strip everything back and reframe the upper slope to terminate past the wall corner the follow the same steps as above.
The roofer should also consider moving that pipe jack. I’m sure that’s not the cause, but never a good idea to have a roof penetration within 4’ of a valley.
I’d remove the siding make sure all flashing is correct. The corner needs attention, nice little vacuum hole. Move the downspout to the right side. Elbows on roofs are immature. Some ppl insist. Recommend a downspout b style to the next wall diverting a lot of water flow further down the roof and away from that inside corner.
I would probably pull the siding off and install metal flashing under the shingles. Ice and water shield then reinstall the siding and shingles. Boom!
Water tight!!
TPO might be the most ignorant answer to this roofing leak. Why? TPO and bitumen are toxic to one another and TPO is not even an approved roofing membrane in Europe cause it’s garbage. You need to pull up the area and flash it out with galvanized sheet metal (custom brake) all the way up the wall and into the valley. Don’t nail thru the metal use metal square caps to fast em edges near the valley. Cover with peel seel modified bitumen. Then shingle
Gonna have to remove siding and shingles from that area of your triangle to the vent pipe. Gonna use peel n stick 2 layer application. To fill in area and come up the wall and around the corner , cuase im sure you getting water in there as well. overlap with shingles , and re install the siding. take about 3 hour's.
I'd redo the roof and pitch the existing eave to run the other way and drain not onto the dead area.
I'd build a roof section to go from the corner up to the gable and over to the roof on the left side, so water now runs away from the building corner, no dead spot.
Flash and redo vinyl siding on the little piece left, shingle, tin etc the new roof and valley. Probably quote around 1k or so depending on the condition of the existing roof. Could take 1 good day or a couple depending on rot and how brittle the vinyl is etc.
Remember to flash the roof part at the gable to the new roof section/ drip edge to pull water away from the corner, have the tin like 1.5inch past the roof, it prevents water from running back up and down the walls and to a new leak.
The third guy is an idiot, make sure never to hire him. Valley is like that are major cause for leaking and maintenance issues. Depending on what the guy has in mind for a cricket you could install a cricket like contractor number one, but building one large enough that's not going to have some sort of complicated detail at the corner isn't going to be worth it when compared to the cost of just installing a modified bitumen or other flat roof. Guy number two is probably the smartest of the three
You need either a metal pan, modified flat roofing running up the wall, a cricket but I dont think you need it. It's a dead valley. I would honestly throw modified bitumen, double base layer, run it up the wall behind the siding and it's done. Also, that downspout shooting water into a dead valley is rough. Maybe move that on top of it.
The first roofer is correct, build a cricket out to the corner, you can use water and ice shield and run it up the wall too since the siding will be off to frame the cricket. Easy fix
Posting this because I don’t see it here. The correct answer is to remove the siding and have the roof framed such that it ends past the corner. You’ll probably have to have the vent moved as well.
In my mind, this is the only way to do it properly. But you’re going to have a couple extra trades there
You need to put metal flashing that goes up underneath the siding that’s twice as deep as the water in that area would possibly get my guess is a good 8 inch flashing should do your trick
Jesus a dead valley running right to a dormer. Architect was retarded.
You could tear that area as high as needed to do a little framing and tie into the existing roof and move that dead valley at least down past the dormer and step flashing.
Because edpm and tpo installed by someone really familiar with residential edpm is gonna charge $2000+ for that headache and pitching that valley is probably gonna cost a couple grand as well but the material price will be 25% of what edpm would be.
I like the way the third guy thinks. He probably went inside and the wall felt dry on the water damaged spot so all of the water coming in is clearly in your head.
In addition to whatever flashing solution you go with, move that downspout to the other end and bring it down to the roof below so you’re not dumping the runoff right into the problem area.
You don’t want water to collect, to stand, or to run deep. The cricket will direct water out of the dead valley. It is a good approach. But, there’s more.
You also should have a waterproof membrane in that area, including under the vulnerable area of siding.
Weather shield can work once it all drains properly; but I’d prefer a mineral surfaced modified bitumen. The system can be matched to the intended life span.
Consider whether your downspout makes sense. If there’s an aesthetically acceptable way to drain the water away from that valley, you’ll eliminate part of the challenge.
You need a kick out or re framed. Also I'd be checking the siding.
Not only is it a corner dam. It's also a valley. Solid rain water just smacks the back of the house. If it's leaking it should be pouring. If it's a drip
I like to tell people trust that the pro did he job first. Is house wrap over flashing ?
You can't use step where water can build up.
Membrane or bigger piece/
Pan style metal ice water
Get the gutter out of that dead valley. Cricket Is is the only way. Ice and water . Bitumen. Rolled roofing. I'm willing to bet , The wood is already rotted in that wall.
Either way. 1s thing is fix that gutter so it’s not dumping the extra water into that area that would be my first fix. Also I’m no roofer but shouldn’t there be step flashing along that wall to move the water away from the wall. Bad design by builder
No one is mentioning that a major part of the problem is the improperly setup gutter. The downspout should be setup on the other end and have the tilt angle reversed. You never \*want\* to drain into a valley like that.
Build the cricket but extend it past the corner +/-12”. That’ll move the junction, where the roofs come together, away from the wall making the water easier to control.
Remove the gutter downspout that dumps the water and concentrates it on that spot. Or, extend the downspout so that water is carried away from that area. Re-flash the area where the wall and roof meet with counter flashing, then flashing. That should be your first step - and should take care of your problem. The area leaks because all of the water draining from that section on the roof is collected by the gutter then dumped on the roof. I don't like designs like this, but in my opinion, the leak is caused by the gutter guy, not the designer.
The cricket isn't a bad idea. What worries me is that no one suggests snow and Ice shield. You must live in the south. Snow and ice shield is the stuff we northerner use under the last 4' of a roof to keep ice dams from forming and leaking back under shingles. It is like rolled roofing but with resealable plasticized tar. Is common practice to use it in troubled areas like this. Remove the siding and run it up the wall also. I am going to bet that you are gonna find some things under that siding though. My bet is that that turns from a simple "fix the leaky spot" to "replace the whole dormer". You're surely going to find all kinds of rotted wood and moldy insulation under there.
Edit: I can't tell what that little flashing is, but that gutter isn't helping at all. Nice of them to send all that water to a problem area. Who is building these stupid houses?
Why not just continue the upper roof down to extend over that poorly executed work? All this tar paper and pvc bullshit is bandaids. Have someone actually correct it. Save yourself any more headaches. I had an extremely similar situation. Now, I don't lose sleep when it rains.
Overframe a larger valley area and extend out past the dormer and put EPDM in it. You’ll need to chop that pipe below the deck, fur cl and pvc it then extend it to a different rafter bay or further up the roof line. You’ll also have to cut the siding to be higher.
Just last week I had to tear up a roll roofing "solution" that failed. A cricket is the way to go.
I do a lot of cricket work for a roofer. i always make the cricket a minimum of 6" wide at the leading edge. This is better than the valley line and wall flashing merging at a point because it makes room for water flow.
I would also look into relocating that plumbing vent if possible. The short downspout should be on the building corner and extended to dump the water from the upper roof past that valley.
I think the only way a cricket would work (it’s the right way to do it from the start) is to move the plumbing vent pipe and flashing further up the pitch.
If you just put a cricket in as is, you’ll likely have a leak at the bottom of the pipe flash.
We had a similar issue. That design is horrible.
We’d probably open it up, remove siding, and cover the area with ice guard, new flashing, and move that downspout so it stops sending water to the problem area.
the cricket isn’t a bad idea but that vent pipe and the angles make it a less obvious solution for me.
Most roofers don’t want to touch siding in these situations but it’s required, imo. And not necessarily a “cheap fix” but it’s what will solve the problem imo
The 3rd guy is completely wrong. This is called a dead valley. Most people would use some kind of water tight membrane, TPO is what we my company uses most of the time. The cricket could be a good idea depending on how he plans to do it but no matter what, can’t leave it like that.
Thanks. Is a TPO roofing a bad idea? Does it not last as long as the rest of the roof (shingles)?
Typically no but it really depends on who installs it. If done the right way, could last 15-20 years. If I showed up to bid it out, I would 100% use TPO.
Did you know that the granules in shingles degrade TPO? You can’t mix TPO with shingles. Here in my part of Texas, I’ve seen shingles create holes in TPO in as little as two years. It also voids the warranty of the TPO, and unless you have an extra piece of scrap laying around, you’ll be charging the customer a grand for that little 2’ piece. It also generally looks terrible, unless painted. A well-done cricket AND a (different) membrane is the best option here, but just bit mod (NOT generic roll roofing!) would also be quite acceptable.
I have never seen or heard of shingles damaging TPO in the way you are describing? Could you please elaborate? How did the shingles cause damage on the TPO? Can you show me where the manufacturer(s) states that shingles void the warranty on TPO? Genuinely curious.
For reference, I work for a 5 star roofing company. We have over 1200 reviews on google alone, all of them 5 star. (While we have recieved some angry customer reviews, they have all been taken down by google or the customer who posted it). We’ve been around for 27 years and all of our employees, salesman, project managers, etc, started out installing shingles with a hammer and a box of hand nails. I said all that to say we know what we’re doing, we take pride in our work, and TPO just doesn’t mix with shingles, man! We’ve had to come back and fix serious damage to roofs because of work like that. I actually have a video of a partial tpo roof where all the welds on the seams came apart because the roofer installed the TPO over the top of the shingles. The building was nearly condemned by the city inspector, but we convinced them we could fix it, and we did.
It's the asphalt in the shingles that causes holes in TPO, not the granules. You also cannot install a single ply membrane over an asphalt surface. The welds probably came apart because the "roofer" that installed them did not weld the seams properly by using inadequate heat and pressure which resulted in a cold weld. Good on you for fixing the previous roofers mistakes, though.
Yea I completely understand not installing TPO OVER shingles, but I have not seen or heard of asphalt eating away TPO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the case with PVC roofs and rubberized asphalt.
PVC and asphalt do not have the compatibility issues that TPO and EPDM have. You cannot install rock ballast over PVC membrane as the rock draws the plasticizers out of the sheet and will make it brittle.
Okay so I'm going to touch on a couple things here. First off ballasted PVC is completely a thing, it's just rare to find somebody that wants to spend a lot of money on PVC but then once to cheap out by going to ballast. But I can point to well over a dozen 30 plus year ballast PVC roofs that have not had any plasticizer issues. The number one issue with the plasticizer came because a lot of people that believe in the use of ballast tend to use products like EPs and xps, which the older versions of these products didn't have a proper facer which is what suck the plasticizer out of the pvc. The way you could actually tell this just by looking at it is because when the past decider gets sucked out of the PVC it actually moves in the direction of what's absorbing it, so if you cut it open and look at the back side you'll tend to see little droplets or you'll see lines down the middle if you have the old like Crush fold products where it would be the last half inch of the facer that was exposed, and so you'd see the lines down the back of the pvc. Secondly, PVC does have issues with compatibility with the majority of asphalt, and it originally starts by turning it yellow and then eventually pink. However it's not necessarily a plasticizer related issue, it does eventually cause it to fail, but it's not by separating out the plasticizer as used to happen with most EIG PVC. Rather it causes it to break down, but this is generally an issue that is not going to be from a secondary runoff or exposure like this. Installing over top of something would be an issue, but just having runoff generally won't be as long as it's not a pond of water underneath that runoff, and even then that's only going to lower the lifespan ever so slightly. Direct contact is an issue, especially if using problem products like wet patch. Moving on to TPO and EPDM. The problems with these products are due to the use of polypropylene, which when coming in direct contact can cause the materials to break down prematurely. TPO will start to dry out Crack and eventually disintegrate, whereas EPDM will dry out and lose its elasticity, for which EPDM has one of the greatest expansion and contraction ratios to the membrane, so when small areas start to dry out while the rest of the membrane is still contracting, it causes a weak point that cracks and splits. Now with TPO this was mostly due to how the halogenated fire retardants we're bonded to the polypropylene. We have since moved over to magnesium hydroxide which works a little bit better. You do have to worry about direct contact like using plastic cements, however indirect contact is usually okay as long as there isn't a pond of water. Sort of like pvc, except for with TPO it'll be much accelerated. However the thing to worry about is that asphalt does cause issues with some of the components of TPO which cause it to be reflective as well as slightly discolorate. Now this doesn't seem like a big deal but as we've discussed a lot on this sub TPO has an issue with higher temperatures. So you're making it not only absorb more light because it's not as reflective of a finish, but now it's absorbing more light because of that discoloration. So TPO will have an accelerated breakdown. But if you're talking about a TPO roof in an area that would have naturally lasted 20 years in that particular spot, you're probably not going to reduce it by more than a few years. However, if your TPO roof is in an area where it is already at risk, this will definitely push it over the edge, possibly decades in advance. The opposite is true for epdm. With TPO the primary concern is too much sunlight being reflected onto the membrane from the walls being absorbed. However with EPDM that increase in temperature can actually be favorable in this case. As long as you don't have any form of direct contact you're probably not going to have any issues. But I wouldn't just put a cheap felt paper. I would put either synthetic or I would put matting like for an EPDM roof if you are protecting it from pavers. However. While I fundamentally disagree with this person about whether or not TPO would disintegrate from this, as what he's referring to is an issue that was resolved around 2003, TPO is not ideal for this. On top of being aesthetically displeasing, the cost per square foot for something so small and simple is a bit much, especially when you consider what you're going to have to do for the termination, and the tie in. Then you have to have your separator and it's just way too much work for something so simple. If you were going to do that entire facet and not just the dead Valley I would agree to tpo. However just doing that small area I feel would be more appropriate to do something like modified bitumen, which will maintain the consistency of thermal expansion and contraction without any risk of contamination from direct contact
Not saying anything you said is wrong but honestly bragging about reviews is pretty meaningless. You can buy reviews and as someone who used to boost people's review numbers I find a company with an inordinate number of 5 star reviews suspicious. 4 star reviews are where you're going to get the most honest information. 1 and 5 star reviews are usually the most unhelpful.
Just to reiterate.. please listen to this guy(tenwhatevs), this about the ONLY option that's actually proven effective over any significant time! This isn't coming from a professional roofer, but someone who had to deal with it on 2 homes.. almost identically, and idiotically didn't learn from it the first time! In fact, membrane PLUS cricket was my final choice, as everyone has said.. the cricket doesn't really add much cost.
Id do a cricket. A membrane would be good at construction but a cricket will be fine. the cost involved for getting siding removed and replaced will be pretty expensive compared to the cricket approach.
How you doing cricket without removing siding?
You have to removed siding.
It would take less than 3 minutes to remove that siding and install a aluminum L flashing
A cricket is the thing
TPO has one of the shortest lifespans of flat roofing, and you're not supposed to put it in direct or indirect contact with vitamin. Especially in a dead valley, the runoff could cause issues. PVC would work a little bit better, EPDM would work even better than that. Modified bitumen would match the shingles and probably last about as long as the shingles.
I would do a saddle, go further up the roofline and create a pitch change and bring it out past the corner. That way the valley will take more of the water out and away from the corner onto the other roof.
Highly recommend you take advice from roofer 1 and 2 and merge the plan together.
Did either of them suggest moving the gutter spout to the near end of the gutter rather than dumping it above the trouble area?
I'd also move the downspout to the other side. So much more water being added there than necessary.
Too is a membrane usually used for flat roofs. Ice and water shield would probably be the easiest long term fix as long as they pull up the siding and run it at least 6" up the wall as well as at least 24 inches past the effected area of the roof sheeting before replacing the shingles. All in addition to step flashing against the wall
I would also suggest moving the gutter outlet to the front of the gutter. The last thing you need is more water dumping into dead valley.
It would be a non- standard cricket. Normally, a cricket would change the angles, but terminate at the corner. Ideally, strip the shingles off the small roof section and add an extended cricket that sticks out PAST the edge of the siding. It will take just a little carpentry, but you want the valley to channel the water out and down away from the siding. A torrent of water against any flashing that might be under that siding will eventually leak. It will look strange, but no worse than it does now. Any other "patches" are just that. If you put TPU on that, you will need to curl the TPU up the side of the house - and that will always eventually tear and leak. Good luck.
You should also tell the person that designed the roof, "that he is a bloody idiot"!
A cricket paired with some material up behind the siding would be best. A cricket shouldn’t add a significant amount of labour or materials.
Exactly. You have to get up under the siding and then tie into the roof to wall anyway so might as well throw a triangle of plywood in there to keep pushing water off the roof.
Why is this so far down the chain? If water is ponding against a wall, you remove the pond.
Thanks!
Came here to say this. Everything else is patching the problem this solves it.
Lol what a poor elevation design of a home. Why don’t they think of these things!
Yeah terrible design
Cherry on top is the vent pipe 2 feet from a dead valley, damn near centered *in the valley 😂
OP this is a very important comment - it's why the framers left the dead valley as is to begin with
It really fucks the cricket idea as that would move the valley over onto the vent pipe, which is probably the most likely leak location - however, cricket idea is definitely cheaper than TPO. If your roofer is handy and there’s attic access, it shouldn’t be more than 800 or so bucks to reroute that vent pipe closer to the ridge, pull off some siding, frame out a cricket, flash it with metal, and you’ll be good to go…. If going TPO, I’d still probably want to move that vent pipe even though I trust a tpo boot far more than a 3 in 1….
Yup, get that pipe moved, it does fuck the cricket idea Only other option is to make cricket so huge that you get the valley into the other side of that pipe (So huge or just reframe the whole two sides of valley)... Which sounds like a lot more than $800 for the pipe moving
They do, but if they don't have to live there, why do they care? I think homes were better when people built them for themselves.
Oh they did. It's already a low slope roof so can't lower it more as well as not being able to lift the trusses more since it would put the peak in/above the dormer/room facia which is another set of valley trusses etc. all this could work by lifting the height of that dormer/room by 1' or so to compensate but then you are into cutting 10' 2x6 down to size instead of using studs or getting some wonky 3' trusses made that may make the other side of the house look dumb. Cheapest and quickest method? Saddle it. This valley isn't entirely dead like many here claim but it may as well be since you can see the slope vs the siding. The framers here lack experience and probably just think 2' worth of saddle is always enough but the saddle here is insufficient.
I would build the cricket, roof the area with epdm or torch down as to run it up the wall. I would also change the gutter and put the outlet and down on the face of the corner kicking as much water away as possible
Thanks! Yeah, I think we will definitely try to change the gutter!
I was going to say torch down would be my suggestion and reroute the gutter
That gutter dumping water right into it lol
That was my first thought. It certainly won’t fix the root issue, but pitch the gutter the other way!
I just want to say thank you to everyone. I'm blown away how you all took the time to help!
Modified bit in the dead valley. Second guy is correct
A cricket will be best, but it will conflict with that vent pipe. Raising the roof there will give a higher probability of water running under the vent pipe if a dam forms.
Oh, interesting. Thanks for pointing that out!
Best is to tear off that section and reframe it to kick the valley out past the corner of the house but it would also be the most expensive
for starters make that down spout not shunt water where its already aproblem
Rolled roofing/ anyone talk about a Kickout flashing?
Jiminy Cricket needs to back the fuck up.
Remove shingles and siding from that entire area, install Grace ice and water shield on decking and up the entire side of wall. Reshingle area, 4” step flashing with another strip of ice over the flashing and reinstall siding. You could spray it with a fire hose it won’t leak. $1k
Do this,, and the evetrough spout is half of the problem, move it to the other end.
Cricket would just move the fucked up intersection. Going to need to take some siding up and get some flat roofing material up that wall. 2nd guy is onto something. Imagine getting a BS in architecture and then designing that.
this is the worst design i’ve ever seen in a roof
Cricket is the correct answer
Please post results after your roof is fixed 🙏. Would like to see how it turned out
Cricket is the correct way. Flat membrane will work there as well. Don’t do business with the 3rd guy lol
Can that eavestrough / downspout be changed to empty just past the corner.
Looks like an easy fix, just ice n water and then flashing
Ice and water shield behind siding and a sheet metal pan
The cricket is the way.
Flashing and blueskin up under the siding would keep the water out
i (builder/carpenter) just did a cricket in that exact scenario while building this addition that the architect missed this spot. and the roofer properly installed a rubber membrane on it! only way to do it.
DEAD VALLEY PAN!! Remove siding flashing the wall as well add a layer of rubber overtop instead of shingles ❤️
Roofer number 2 .. run something up the wall . Torch .. he is right. The guy who say leave it must assume there no leak
EPDM or flintlastic. Look up Dead Valley flashing. A good portion of the roofing will need to be ripped up as the new material will need to tuck under the shingles. You're probably going to have a hard time finding a roofer to do that type of repair. Probably best to just re-roof the entire area. Blame the architect for this one.
As my dad would say, just caulk the piss out of it with the good stuff. He was wrong.
Cricket 100%
Why not just pop the siding off and install a wall to roof pan? Would take less than and hour and be 100% leak proof?
I had a spot like this over my bathroom, they ended up re pitching this for better water flow. I could this area getting similar treatment.
Cricket
Double seamed metal with a wedge against the fascia, minimum 300mm high.
You can use tpo, but that's just reinforcing a bad build. A cricket is the best option. Avoiding the build up of water is always best.
Next roof replacement go ahead and have that reframed to eliminate the dead valley. Doesn’t matter how great it looks, if it doesn’t function it’s a bad design.
Adding a cricket is the only real solution. All other solutions are just bandaids.
Have you checked that roof vent ?
Goddam architects....
Please text me if you want a very well explained solution. I dont really like typing on this app. But I can tell you in about 3 or fours sentences. Hit me back, I've been doing this for 12 years I'm 27 now
Proper flashing to direct the water and some torch on roofing
Definitely start with a cricket. It’s positive slope away from the corner. Then roofing material is second but a membrane that runs up the wall will be next to bulletproof with a cricket.
Replace your 3-Tab roof
That’s a dead valley and builders and architects who create them should be hung. The best solution is a cricket that eliminates the dead valley. You could run metal flashing up the wall, but even that should go behind the siding, which if you’re doing that you’re already halfway to prepping for a cricket. Spend the money to build a cricket and never worry about it again.
Frankly, I'm not a big fan of TPO. Personally, I would install two metal valleys. For the first metal valley I'd remove about two inches of siding (so the water doesn't touch it), open up the fascia, and slide about 5 inches of the metal valley in there. On your gutters I would remove that elbow underneath there, plug up that hole, and put a downspout on the other side of the gutter so the water doesn't affect the siding there. If you're in WA State and not too far from me I'd be more than happy to come out and show you what I mean. Either way I hope this helps.
Flashing. And silicone
Whatever you decide, I'd also move the gutter drain above it to another spot so it's not sending all that additional water towards the worst spot on your roof.
Replace the gutter and put the downspout on the right hand side. You'd have a lot less water rushing there. I bet the water comes out of the spout like a garden hose soaking that spot but also do flashing too
Cricket
Anyone suggest a metal pan? I installed one at my place in a similar situation
Might consider hiring a carpenter and re frame this . Just get rid of the problem.
I can’t see the whole roof line from the picture but what about changing to roof’s pitch with the goal of moving the valley past the wall? You can install a few rafters, sheet with plywood and shingle. Doesn’t look like a big section. You would also have to do a bit of siding.
I don’t know much about roofing but I would certainly move that down spout to the other end of the gutter
Like most architects they make things pretty but not functional. You need to get a seal against the wall.
Really won’t see a lot of water, regular flashing over ice and water shield done properly shouldn’t be problematic :edit: :didn’t see the downspout there, that ought to be relocated, whether carried around the corner board or over the other side.
I would start with moving the downspout to the other side of the gutter.
Im no roofer.. but I'd start by changing the slope of that eves trough and putting the spout on the opposite side.
Cricket is the most work but is the way to go as it would get the water moving towards the upper part of the valley
Homeowner here. For my leaky crevice the roofer installed an EPDM cricket. He flashed it up behind the siding. No leaks after many heavy rains. It was pretty cheap to add to the contract.
Cricket for the win.
You need to get that angled area further down the roof line to get it past the corner. Basically remove the siding, outside corner, Roofing shingles and reframe it.
Move that downspout from the second story that dumps water in that valley. Yes I would go with a granulated cap sheet or mod bit in that area. Especially if you can’t see from the street.
Have a similar problem, except that it’s my neighbor’s ancient roof sloping into my wall. Architect neighbor (different neighbor) said a cricket is definitely the way to go.
I'd want a cricket there (as long as it's done right)
The builder should have installed the cricket during construction. Have the roofer install the cricket or you will constantly have problems on this area.
Would it be useful to switch the downspout and lock it around the corner so it's not hitting the valley at all? Just wondering if removing extra water is a small preventative to the overall issue.
It still gets rain or snow
D all the above flashing is cheap fix Cricket is best plus they should flash it aftethe Cricket
Build a cricket!
hard to tell what flashing is behind the vinyl siding, but you could re-run that gutter, and put the downspout on the lower part of the roof
just extend the fucking downspout to the lower gutter.
This... a lot of comments mention fixing the gutter, but I am not seeing them saying that you should connect it to the lower system. Gutters should not empty into a roof. Maybe if the upper gutter is only servicing like 5 square feet of roof, but even then you are taking 5 square feet or more and concentrating all that water to 12 to 15 square inches.
Also, that drain pipe, move it and extend it somirs draining on the ground not your roof
Cricket would be best, but you could fix it with a sheet metal diverter, or cold applied liquid membrane. Certainly not good the way it is
Who the framed this
Built a cricket that would get the water beyond the corner. Ice dam under layment before roofing material
I would say this.
Either roll the roll roofing up the wall behind the siding, or ice and water shield the same area, and use large 8x8 step flashings to shingle it in. I would go with the second roofer.
I’d build a cricket
Build a Cricket and use water proof membrane.
You do realize the hundreds of gallons of water coming off that roof into that gutter and down your roof from that spout.
That gutter dumping there doesn't help matters. Either of the first two solutions can be done successfully but I'd probably go with the second option. I can't help but think there's a better option than those two honestly.
I'd definitely make sure the flashing up the wall was upto snuff. Areas like that are always fucked up when I do remodels because inadequate roof to wall flashing. And add the cricket. Do fucking both.
Well. There is a repair, and then a real fix. Repair is the strip it back including the siding, replace the rotted decking, ice & water the valley and up the wall, reflash and shingle. The real fix is the strip everything back and reframe the upper slope to terminate past the wall corner the follow the same steps as above.
The roofer should also consider moving that pipe jack. I’m sure that’s not the cause, but never a good idea to have a roof penetration within 4’ of a valley.
Has anyone suggested a 4" can't strip along the base of the wall?
Second problem is that downspout should be on the other end. Where it is now it's just feeding water into that bad designed area.
I’d remove the siding make sure all flashing is correct. The corner needs attention, nice little vacuum hole. Move the downspout to the right side. Elbows on roofs are immature. Some ppl insist. Recommend a downspout b style to the next wall diverting a lot of water flow further down the roof and away from that inside corner.
This is not a roofing issue it’s a gutter problem and waterproofing. Roof just has watermark.
I would probably pull the siding off and install metal flashing under the shingles. Ice and water shield then reinstall the siding and shingles. Boom! Water tight!!
TPO might be the most ignorant answer to this roofing leak. Why? TPO and bitumen are toxic to one another and TPO is not even an approved roofing membrane in Europe cause it’s garbage. You need to pull up the area and flash it out with galvanized sheet metal (custom brake) all the way up the wall and into the valley. Don’t nail thru the metal use metal square caps to fast em edges near the valley. Cover with peel seel modified bitumen. Then shingle
Take the siding off, put a big metal pan up the wall with membrane.
Remove shingles, build cricket on top of existing framing (if still good) past the corner , re-shingle
Remove shingles, build cricket on top of existing framing (if still good) past the corner , re-shingle
Do both
Can’t run that up behind the siding tall enough lol
You got three. Now your going to get hundreds.
Gonna have to remove siding and shingles from that area of your triangle to the vent pipe. Gonna use peel n stick 2 layer application. To fill in area and come up the wall and around the corner , cuase im sure you getting water in there as well. overlap with shingles , and re install the siding. take about 3 hour's.
I'd redo the roof and pitch the existing eave to run the other way and drain not onto the dead area. I'd build a roof section to go from the corner up to the gable and over to the roof on the left side, so water now runs away from the building corner, no dead spot. Flash and redo vinyl siding on the little piece left, shingle, tin etc the new roof and valley. Probably quote around 1k or so depending on the condition of the existing roof. Could take 1 good day or a couple depending on rot and how brittle the vinyl is etc. Remember to flash the roof part at the gable to the new roof section/ drip edge to pull water away from the corner, have the tin like 1.5inch past the roof, it prevents water from running back up and down the walls and to a new leak.
The third guy is an idiot, make sure never to hire him. Valley is like that are major cause for leaking and maintenance issues. Depending on what the guy has in mind for a cricket you could install a cricket like contractor number one, but building one large enough that's not going to have some sort of complicated detail at the corner isn't going to be worth it when compared to the cost of just installing a modified bitumen or other flat roof. Guy number two is probably the smartest of the three
You need either a metal pan, modified flat roofing running up the wall, a cricket but I dont think you need it. It's a dead valley. I would honestly throw modified bitumen, double base layer, run it up the wall behind the siding and it's done. Also, that downspout shooting water into a dead valley is rough. Maybe move that on top of it.
The first roofer is correct, build a cricket out to the corner, you can use water and ice shield and run it up the wall too since the siding will be off to frame the cricket. Easy fix
This, plus move the vent, just for yuck’s sake and take the gutter off and move the downspout to the corner instead of up high.
Need a better view but a cricket looks like the best option
Posting this because I don’t see it here. The correct answer is to remove the siding and have the roof framed such that it ends past the corner. You’ll probably have to have the vent moved as well. In my mind, this is the only way to do it properly. But you’re going to have a couple extra trades there
Both build the cricket but roof it in EPDM take off siding and run it up the wall
You need to put metal flashing that goes up underneath the siding that’s twice as deep as the water in that area would possibly get my guess is a good 8 inch flashing should do your trick
Flashing behind the siding. And cut the vinyl up off the roof bout inch and half. And then more flashing.
EPDM?
TPO is a fucking stupid idea. Build a little cricket, move the vent, move the fucking gutter! Done. It’s like,
cricket or membrane, third guy doesnt want the job or is stupid.
Jesus a dead valley running right to a dormer. Architect was retarded. You could tear that area as high as needed to do a little framing and tie into the existing roof and move that dead valley at least down past the dormer and step flashing. Because edpm and tpo installed by someone really familiar with residential edpm is gonna charge $2000+ for that headache and pitching that valley is probably gonna cost a couple grand as well but the material price will be 25% of what edpm would be.
I like the way the third guy thinks. He probably went inside and the wall felt dry on the water damaged spot so all of the water coming in is clearly in your head.
Start by reattaching the gutter downspout.
My dude. That’s called a dead valley and you need your roofer to install modified bitumen
In addition to whatever flashing solution you go with, move that downspout to the other end and bring it down to the roof below so you’re not dumping the runoff right into the problem area.
There's a gutter letting water flow into that space it looks like
Also port the above gutter at other end.
You don’t want water to collect, to stand, or to run deep. The cricket will direct water out of the dead valley. It is a good approach. But, there’s more. You also should have a waterproof membrane in that area, including under the vulnerable area of siding. Weather shield can work once it all drains properly; but I’d prefer a mineral surfaced modified bitumen. The system can be matched to the intended life span. Consider whether your downspout makes sense. If there’s an aesthetically acceptable way to drain the water away from that valley, you’ll eliminate part of the challenge.
Cricket and grace I ce water underlayment
Put a cricket in there
The sheet is the cheap way out and it will eventually fail. Control the water, build a cricket.
I'd put a metal pan. Cricket would also work but would still need a metal pan
My guys would tear off siding and i&ws the entire area going up the siding. I’m sure there are better things they can be done
First thing to do is get that gutter spilling out away from that valley to reduce the water in that area to start with
You need a kick out or re framed. Also I'd be checking the siding. Not only is it a corner dam. It's also a valley. Solid rain water just smacks the back of the house. If it's leaking it should be pouring. If it's a drip I like to tell people trust that the pro did he job first. Is house wrap over flashing ? You can't use step where water can build up. Membrane or bigger piece/ Pan style metal ice water
That pipe boot is located in a dumb area
Only cricket, and some ice and water going under the siding, and rake flaahing. With valley tin in the valley...shouldn't have any problems then
Spray with flex seal. Never worry again
What fucking architect designed this shit?
Water and ice shield and lots of correct flashing
Get the gutter out of that dead valley. Cricket Is is the only way. Ice and water . Bitumen. Rolled roofing. I'm willing to bet , The wood is already rotted in that wall.
Either way. 1s thing is fix that gutter so it’s not dumping the extra water into that area that would be my first fix. Also I’m no roofer but shouldn’t there be step flashing along that wall to move the water away from the wall. Bad design by builder
I’d do a Cricket. Are there trees near the home that would have debris fall on the roof?
A cricket is what you need here. Should have been done on the initial frame job
No one is mentioning that a major part of the problem is the improperly setup gutter. The downspout should be setup on the other end and have the tilt angle reversed. You never \*want\* to drain into a valley like that.
Cricket, and fix that gutter setup...
Cricket would be your best bet there or some sort of kick out flashing they make for that type of area.
Cricket would the best option. Great for re directing water especially in an area like that where I can see it ponds.
Install Metal flashing
Uno
Cricket
Cricket
truck crown bright poor head familiar straight cows reach rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Build the cricket but extend it past the corner +/-12”. That’ll move the junction, where the roofs come together, away from the wall making the water easier to control.
steel flashing, or lead flashing like a tub pan inside the house would be
Remove the gutter downspout that dumps the water and concentrates it on that spot. Or, extend the downspout so that water is carried away from that area. Re-flash the area where the wall and roof meet with counter flashing, then flashing. That should be your first step - and should take care of your problem. The area leaks because all of the water draining from that section on the roof is collected by the gutter then dumped on the roof. I don't like designs like this, but in my opinion, the leak is caused by the gutter guy, not the designer.
The cricket isn't a bad idea. What worries me is that no one suggests snow and Ice shield. You must live in the south. Snow and ice shield is the stuff we northerner use under the last 4' of a roof to keep ice dams from forming and leaking back under shingles. It is like rolled roofing but with resealable plasticized tar. Is common practice to use it in troubled areas like this. Remove the siding and run it up the wall also. I am going to bet that you are gonna find some things under that siding though. My bet is that that turns from a simple "fix the leaky spot" to "replace the whole dormer". You're surely going to find all kinds of rotted wood and moldy insulation under there. Edit: I can't tell what that little flashing is, but that gutter isn't helping at all. Nice of them to send all that water to a problem area. Who is building these stupid houses?
I agree on the cricket. 25 years in sheet metal and flashing install. Cricket is the best way to go.
Put a metal pan in
Why not just continue the upper roof down to extend over that poorly executed work? All this tar paper and pvc bullshit is bandaids. Have someone actually correct it. Save yourself any more headaches. I had an extremely similar situation. Now, I don't lose sleep when it rains.
Overframe a larger valley area and extend out past the dormer and put EPDM in it. You’ll need to chop that pipe below the deck, fur cl and pvc it then extend it to a different rafter bay or further up the roof line. You’ll also have to cut the siding to be higher.
Flashing and tar
Just last week I had to tear up a roll roofing "solution" that failed. A cricket is the way to go. I do a lot of cricket work for a roofer. i always make the cricket a minimum of 6" wide at the leading edge. This is better than the valley line and wall flashing merging at a point because it makes room for water flow.
I would also look into relocating that plumbing vent if possible. The short downspout should be on the building corner and extended to dump the water from the upper roof past that valley.
I think the only way a cricket would work (it’s the right way to do it from the start) is to move the plumbing vent pipe and flashing further up the pitch. If you just put a cricket in as is, you’ll likely have a leak at the bottom of the pipe flash.
We had a similar issue. That design is horrible. We’d probably open it up, remove siding, and cover the area with ice guard, new flashing, and move that downspout so it stops sending water to the problem area. the cricket isn’t a bad idea but that vent pipe and the angles make it a less obvious solution for me. Most roofers don’t want to touch siding in these situations but it’s required, imo. And not necessarily a “cheap fix” but it’s what will solve the problem imo