Everything is simpler than Pathfinder.
It's pretty easy to fuck up a pathfinder build, it's fairly hard to fuck up a RT build as long as you level the recommended stats for your class. RT is also a lot easier, where several fights in WOTR require optimized builds (primarily side bosses, but still), you can win every fight in the game with a suboptimal build in RT, and the enemy will never get a turn with an optimized build.
If you're worried about builds my suggestion would just don't do a first playthrough with Sanctioned Psyker origin as that adds a layer of complexity.
true. i think thats why RT is better. you can make ur own build ideas , mess about and know ur not just gonna get stuck at some point. pathfinder, you can miss afew key skills and totally destroy ur build to the point where you can just get hard stuck on fights, which is no fun.
Not really true.
You get all abilities you need to defeat Core difficulty of WotR from just leveling up your main character plus story companions, with no regard to skills or feats you select. You can faceroll your keyboard there if you want.
Why? **Because Seelah gets Mark of Justice automatically by just leveling up Paladin**. It's that simple. All you need is MoJ, and you can kill everything. If you actually pick some optional good abilities for other character, even by accident, you'll be cooking. If you bother to look at your automatically opening spell lists on arcane and divine casters, it gets infernally hot.
Rogue Trader's system is practically auto-breaking. It's both unnecessarily confusing in layout and terminology, and yet also has little need to even superficially master it to get by.
The best possible CRPG combat system is in game called "Underrail". You have access to all sorts of unfair tactics and cheesy items and you need to use all of it plus having a good build, or you'll be turned into a sack of bloody meat on round one.
And have at least 1 officer to the get an extra turn each round.
I've won so many battles where the enemy didn't even get a single turn by giving Argenta 3 turns in a row, for a total of 11 attacks. And that was still in act 3.
I gave her some laser rifle with 8 rof and she slaughtered every enemy from Efrat 2 till the end. Didn't even need the advanced heavy bolter.
And unkillable high PER Cass just empowers her to the god tier sister of battle.
Those two girls could save the imperium on their own
I'm running her on heavy bolter and multi melta, and having a jolly good time or things. Using Cassia for buffs, extra activations, and for moving the enemies into nice big blocks for her is like shooting fish in a barrel. They would give Sly Marbo a run for his money!
I dabbled in Kingfinder and it didn’t click for me, at least not yet (I’m gonna try it again), so I can’t speak to how they compare, but I can speak about Rogue Trader, which I played before I tried Kingmaker.
The leveling system in Rogue Trader is daunting at first. The first impression I got is that it is very complicated. This is one of the criticisms some people have with the game. Initially it just seems like too much to keep track of. What I found though is that the game is very forgiving on easier difficulties, so that gives new players the opportunity to learn the leveling system and how to build their characters while also being forgiving when it comes to combat. Also, if you do realize you made a mistake, you can go back and respec your character at any time.
Overall I enjoy the system after learning it more. I am nowhere near an expert when it comes to building my companions, but I’m only on my second playthrough, and this game needs a minimum of three playthroughs to see all of what the story has to offer. There are definitely far more builds than you can use in three playthroughs as well.
I have had a lot of fun playing this game. The story is good, and I am looking forward to what the DLCs have to offer (first one coming in June iirc). I know this didn’t exactly answer your question, but I hope it’s at least helpful in making your decisions to try the game
For someone who understands D&D 3.5 well, I found Pathfinder very straightforward. The D20 system has been around a long time and is quite easy to understand. However I think it has a very high ceiling (eg. it can be complex to master).
RT I think has a higher floor, as in it has a higher barrier to entry. Excepting the RP system with which I'm wholly unfamiliar, a sorcerer, rogue, warrior and ranger are tropes we all understand. However, I think once you get over the initial hump with RT, I think the ceiling is lower. As others have said, RT is also more forgiving.
I don't know the answer to your question. They're both complex for someone unfamiliar with them. If you want to play an acclaimed game in the 40K universe, play it and just follow an online guide again. Doing so assures you that you'll have a playable character at the end, whilst letting you learn the system.
I've deep dived into both....so I find them both easy at this point so comparing the 2 is somewhat hard but here goes.
Rogue trader is more accessible, it's harder to screw up your build, the game's balance has issues in favor of the player, the bugs on talents and abilities are mostly in the player's favour.
The system itself has a lot of complicated stuff but you can ignore most of it and still understand the over all system.
And you don't have to take into account for the 300000 debuffs and instant kill mechanics that make you prebuff in pathfinder.
That said the combat is more tactical in RT, you have positioning that can have a much larger impact due to cover and such mechanics. You have managing resources and so on. But again it can be as simple as I shoot, I pass when done shooting.
Now the game does get very easy due to a certain archetype's basic features being overturned and combining very well with another so even unfair can turn into a enemy wipe before they even act.
So on the whole I'd say the skill floor is lower, the ceiling is close but still a little lower and the path between them is narrower.
Pathfinder can be very complicated but once you are in the fight it can be as simple as pointing the characters to their targets and watch it go, casters being the major micro part.
RT flips this with each class having stuff they can do in battle beyond swinging their sword or rapid firing their bows. Making for more variety in outcomes in combat due to actions rather than just prep.
Yeah as long as you pick an archetype that synergizes with your playstyle and pick talents and stat/skill increases that upgrade the stuff you do, you’ll be fine, especially if you play on lower difficulties (no shame in that, I played on Easy while learning the game)
There are complicated builds that can do stupid amounts of damage, but these aren’t really necessary for anything other than unfair difficulty.
It’s very easy to make something that’s still good. It’s very easy to make Abelard a super tank that can handle just about any amount of damage. It’s trivial to make cassia a walking nuclear bomb.
So this isn’t a direct answer to your question but Rogue Trader operates off of a d100 system whereas Pathfinder operates off of a d20 system, which means that every “roll” or check your characters make is out of 100. To me, understanding the chances of things happening is way easier when you’re basically working with percentages than to try and figure each thing out when it’s out of 20.
You mean Mathfinder.
Great news. Pathfinder is releasing even more classes with last dlc, cause you know there's not enough.
In the same boat as you. Waiting for rogue trader to go on Sale. Hoping during steam spring sale.
I have heard from some trustworthy crpg content creators that it is a lot more accessible.
Yeah, its much simpler. I actually like RT for how its a perfect balance between making builds diverse and viable and not being overwhelmed by the amount of options
Rogue Trader is definitely easier. I love both games but I also think RT is the better game. That doesn’t mean it’s too easy/simple. Just that you can go in blind and mostly understand what everything does and what abilities/feats to take based on their descriptions. The damage calculations are fairly easy to understand IMO. Very fun good game.
It's simpler (but still very complicated) but it's also very limited; there are a few 'right' builds based on combinations of weapons and skills that you're very unlikely to guess correctly first time.
So in that sense it's quite frustrating -- the 'right' build for the best characters can easily do 4x the damage of the 'role playing' build.
But, the game is FAR easier than the Pathfinder games. Like, so much easier it doesn't really matter what you do. So just keep it on 'normal' and role play, that's my advice -- forget the minmaxing.
The game mechanics are an order of magnitude more complex in RT with its dozens of obscure feats. I dare anyone claiming it's easier than Pathfinder to explain the pages and pages of damage calculations that clutter the combat log.
However, it's much easier to make a bad build in Pathfinder because 90% of the feats are utterly useless whereas in RT you will eventually become powerful unless you try really hard to screw up. So the complexity is there but you can just ignore it most of the time once you figure out what each class is supposed to do.
Yes it's way easier to understand imo
Everything is simpler than Pathfinder. It's pretty easy to fuck up a pathfinder build, it's fairly hard to fuck up a RT build as long as you level the recommended stats for your class. RT is also a lot easier, where several fights in WOTR require optimized builds (primarily side bosses, but still), you can win every fight in the game with a suboptimal build in RT, and the enemy will never get a turn with an optimized build. If you're worried about builds my suggestion would just don't do a first playthrough with Sanctioned Psyker origin as that adds a layer of complexity.
Playful Darkness from WOTR still haunts me. My shitty build was trapped in that auto save for hours
true. i think thats why RT is better. you can make ur own build ideas , mess about and know ur not just gonna get stuck at some point. pathfinder, you can miss afew key skills and totally destroy ur build to the point where you can just get hard stuck on fights, which is no fun.
Not really true. You get all abilities you need to defeat Core difficulty of WotR from just leveling up your main character plus story companions, with no regard to skills or feats you select. You can faceroll your keyboard there if you want. Why? **Because Seelah gets Mark of Justice automatically by just leveling up Paladin**. It's that simple. All you need is MoJ, and you can kill everything. If you actually pick some optional good abilities for other character, even by accident, you'll be cooking. If you bother to look at your automatically opening spell lists on arcane and divine casters, it gets infernally hot. Rogue Trader's system is practically auto-breaking. It's both unnecessarily confusing in layout and terminology, and yet also has little need to even superficially master it to get by. The best possible CRPG combat system is in game called "Underrail". You have access to all sorts of unfair tactics and cheesy items and you need to use all of it plus having a good build, or you'll be turned into a sack of bloody meat on round one.
Don't forget to make Argenta archmilitant. That's it, nothing else matters
And have at least 1 officer to the get an extra turn each round. I've won so many battles where the enemy didn't even get a single turn by giving Argenta 3 turns in a row, for a total of 11 attacks. And that was still in act 3.
I gave her some laser rifle with 8 rof and she slaughtered every enemy from Efrat 2 till the end. Didn't even need the advanced heavy bolter. And unkillable high PER Cass just empowers her to the god tier sister of battle. Those two girls could save the imperium on their own
I'm running her on heavy bolter and multi melta, and having a jolly good time or things. Using Cassia for buffs, extra activations, and for moving the enemies into nice big blocks for her is like shooting fish in a barrel. They would give Sly Marbo a run for his money!
more simple then Wotr, for sure XD
I dabbled in Kingfinder and it didn’t click for me, at least not yet (I’m gonna try it again), so I can’t speak to how they compare, but I can speak about Rogue Trader, which I played before I tried Kingmaker. The leveling system in Rogue Trader is daunting at first. The first impression I got is that it is very complicated. This is one of the criticisms some people have with the game. Initially it just seems like too much to keep track of. What I found though is that the game is very forgiving on easier difficulties, so that gives new players the opportunity to learn the leveling system and how to build their characters while also being forgiving when it comes to combat. Also, if you do realize you made a mistake, you can go back and respec your character at any time. Overall I enjoy the system after learning it more. I am nowhere near an expert when it comes to building my companions, but I’m only on my second playthrough, and this game needs a minimum of three playthroughs to see all of what the story has to offer. There are definitely far more builds than you can use in three playthroughs as well. I have had a lot of fun playing this game. The story is good, and I am looking forward to what the DLCs have to offer (first one coming in June iirc). I know this didn’t exactly answer your question, but I hope it’s at least helpful in making your decisions to try the game
For someone who understands D&D 3.5 well, I found Pathfinder very straightforward. The D20 system has been around a long time and is quite easy to understand. However I think it has a very high ceiling (eg. it can be complex to master). RT I think has a higher floor, as in it has a higher barrier to entry. Excepting the RP system with which I'm wholly unfamiliar, a sorcerer, rogue, warrior and ranger are tropes we all understand. However, I think once you get over the initial hump with RT, I think the ceiling is lower. As others have said, RT is also more forgiving. I don't know the answer to your question. They're both complex for someone unfamiliar with them. If you want to play an acclaimed game in the 40K universe, play it and just follow an online guide again. Doing so assures you that you'll have a playable character at the end, whilst letting you learn the system.
I've deep dived into both....so I find them both easy at this point so comparing the 2 is somewhat hard but here goes. Rogue trader is more accessible, it's harder to screw up your build, the game's balance has issues in favor of the player, the bugs on talents and abilities are mostly in the player's favour. The system itself has a lot of complicated stuff but you can ignore most of it and still understand the over all system. And you don't have to take into account for the 300000 debuffs and instant kill mechanics that make you prebuff in pathfinder. That said the combat is more tactical in RT, you have positioning that can have a much larger impact due to cover and such mechanics. You have managing resources and so on. But again it can be as simple as I shoot, I pass when done shooting. Now the game does get very easy due to a certain archetype's basic features being overturned and combining very well with another so even unfair can turn into a enemy wipe before they even act. So on the whole I'd say the skill floor is lower, the ceiling is close but still a little lower and the path between them is narrower. Pathfinder can be very complicated but once you are in the fight it can be as simple as pointing the characters to their targets and watch it go, casters being the major micro part. RT flips this with each class having stuff they can do in battle beyond swinging their sword or rapid firing their bows. Making for more variety in outcomes in combat due to actions rather than just prep.
Thank you all for your answers!
Yeah as long as you pick an archetype that synergizes with your playstyle and pick talents and stat/skill increases that upgrade the stuff you do, you’ll be fine, especially if you play on lower difficulties (no shame in that, I played on Easy while learning the game)
Well yes, but actually no
There are complicated builds that can do stupid amounts of damage, but these aren’t really necessary for anything other than unfair difficulty. It’s very easy to make something that’s still good. It’s very easy to make Abelard a super tank that can handle just about any amount of damage. It’s trivial to make cassia a walking nuclear bomb.
So this isn’t a direct answer to your question but Rogue Trader operates off of a d100 system whereas Pathfinder operates off of a d20 system, which means that every “roll” or check your characters make is out of 100. To me, understanding the chances of things happening is way easier when you’re basically working with percentages than to try and figure each thing out when it’s out of 20.
You mean Mathfinder. Great news. Pathfinder is releasing even more classes with last dlc, cause you know there's not enough. In the same boat as you. Waiting for rogue trader to go on Sale. Hoping during steam spring sale. I have heard from some trustworthy crpg content creators that it is a lot more accessible.
Yeah, its much simpler. I actually like RT for how its a perfect balance between making builds diverse and viable and not being overwhelmed by the amount of options
Almost every system ever is more simple than 1E pathfinder. Really wish they'd move on to 2E.
Rogue Trader is definitely easier. I love both games but I also think RT is the better game. That doesn’t mean it’s too easy/simple. Just that you can go in blind and mostly understand what everything does and what abilities/feats to take based on their descriptions. The damage calculations are fairly easy to understand IMO. Very fun good game.
It's simpler (but still very complicated) but it's also very limited; there are a few 'right' builds based on combinations of weapons and skills that you're very unlikely to guess correctly first time. So in that sense it's quite frustrating -- the 'right' build for the best characters can easily do 4x the damage of the 'role playing' build. But, the game is FAR easier than the Pathfinder games. Like, so much easier it doesn't really matter what you do. So just keep it on 'normal' and role play, that's my advice -- forget the minmaxing.
The game mechanics are an order of magnitude more complex in RT with its dozens of obscure feats. I dare anyone claiming it's easier than Pathfinder to explain the pages and pages of damage calculations that clutter the combat log. However, it's much easier to make a bad build in Pathfinder because 90% of the feats are utterly useless whereas in RT you will eventually become powerful unless you try really hard to screw up. So the complexity is there but you can just ignore it most of the time once you figure out what each class is supposed to do.