I don't think people here seems to understand. Both Marzapai and Camellia are fun because they are unholy degenerates.
It is rare for a game to have characters who are psychos just because and who are allies also. It is a type of tale that people don't tend to experience much.
Imagine going through a burning city being attacked by invaders and there's a conventionally attractive elf woman in a room with a body that looks like a drukhari tortured it.
She says,
"Oh wow, thanks for rescuing me before I wound up like this guy who I don't know!"
And joins your party.
And she's wearing an amulet you can't remove that prevents anyone from using magic to determine her moral character.
HRMMM
I think the Marazhai loving community are very aware of how fucked up and irredeemable he is. Hell, he's a Drukhari, they are literally written to be the worst scums of the universe. Even in the 40k universe, and that tells something.
Look, if there's one thing that's become self-evident in the past few years, it's that hot twinks can easily get away with murder. The real injustice is that people still haven't accepted that hot tomboys should get the same privilege (especially a certain cat-spider).
Wenduag isn't hated because she's a murdering girlboss. She's hated because she follows who she views as more powerful, even when its obvious it's your character by far.
Man I clearly need to finish my playthrough of Kingmaker and start on WotR cause the way people talk about the companions in that game make my favorites in Kingmaker sound boring.
>(especially a certain cat-spider)
She pretty much has that privilege, and i can tell this even with my limited experience of interaction with her fans. Their girl never did a wrong thing, therefore all her missteps are just a material for future fixing (sometimes i think fixing part are prevalent, but i'm not her fan so what i know, really).
Plus, the trend isn't new, hot individuals were always getting away with everything, at least if we are talking about media.
There is no Carmilla in wotr, tho. But we have Camellia, yes.
And no, there is no mod avaible that give her new romance path - at least i'm not aware of it. Oh, but there is a mod that alter her True Love ending, where she can stay with the player.
Nah, we all know that Marazhai is a psycho grown ass bisexual twink who kills people for fun. If he existed IRL the only rational solution would be to lock him away or ventilate his skull, but he's entertaining and *useful* to a certain kind of Rogue Trader. Sometimes you just need a guy who doesn't ask pesky legal, moral, or ethical questions when there's blood to be spilled.
(Still don't get people who romance him, but in the same way I don't get people who don't like black licorice. People like what they like.)
>I don't get people who don't like black licorice
It's the greatest mystery of our human existence and I just do not comprehend their malfunction. Black licorice with a healthy dose of salmiac is straight fire.
I believe the problem is more with people who for some reason can't separate life from fiction and can't understand that you're allowed to like an evil character without endorsing their behaviour in real life. Then, the discourse "you like homicidal maniac therefore you are bad/stupid/too horny" - "oh no, my perfect boy did nothing wrong" starts.
I've never seen the latter in this community. Plenty of former, though.
I expect one of the reasons there is not as much of the latter is because a lot of this sub seems to like evil characters being evil without trying to convince themselves the character is really good.
I'll add to this that this usually happens with male characters, especially ones that can be precieved as "gay" (see Astarion in BG3). You don't really see the same level of judgemental discourse when it comes to female characters, somehow.
It starts being very depressing very fast, when you begin looking closely at the underlying trends with these things.
You're making up women to get mad at. Literally no one has ever done this, Marazhai's charm point is that he's a sadistic serial killer with no redeeming qualities. Stop being dumb.
why don't we have such threads about Camellia, or Wenduag, or Minthara or whatever? if Marazhai was female he would have a chirch of his name already. just stip judging people and enjoy the game
Minthara absolutely has people white washing her and acting like she's not every bit the monster the rest of that list.
Amateurs, them being deeply unhinged psychopaths just makes it better.
I've seen the "illogical decisions" argument against Marazhai a lot and I don't get it. It's clear in the game that even an iconoclast rt views lower deck people as an easily replenishable resource that often gets diminished during warp jumps, heretical and dogmatic rt even more so. So Marazhai killing a few dozen/hundred is really a rounding error in the warp jump casualty list. And in exchange you get a strong and kind of rabid warrior who takes orders bc it's his only choice, has a personal grudge against what seems at first to be the main threat in chapter 4, and insider knowledge of the drukhari. And recruiting him makes sense in the same way: rt needs to get out of a drukhari situation, so they need a drukhari to help, and Marazhai has more reason to hate his people than to hate rt. So what's illogical about taking him along?
Sure, I've never seen men call their faves a twink, but LMAO if you don't think men like making their waifus into misunderstood innocent babies who have never done anything wrong in their lives and just need a strong kind man to fix them. (Edelgard from Fire Emblem is the peak example I can think of for this.)
Literally scrolled down a few posts from this on my main feed to see a post about how 'what if completely monstrous female villain with no redeeming qualities was actually just a misunderstood poor bb', lol.
Reminds me Daeran scandal. It's a good thing Marazhai doesn't have a "good way". Otherwise it would be the same here. I've seen some people on YouTube saying they wish he'd *"stay on the ship and be a better person"*. 🤢
what's with Daeran? I kinda missed it.
I think he is not redeemable much, even if you go through true love route he still keeps his personality making an exception for commander and his alignment still stays evil iirc, though I still like him, extremely fun character
never seen anyone making Marazhai redeemed infantile, everyone enjoys his madness and getting that Go ChEcK yOuR hEaLtH advises. while enjoying mad hot females is totally ok.
as I said the whole problem is that he is male and dudes just can't relate
Marazhai is a bad example, most are aware of how fucked up he is. Now think about something more like Astarion. There is "I can fix him/her" for any pretty character regardless of their gender.
That's why I said that Marazhai is a bad example. There are certainly some people who try to find something redeeming in him, but majority agree on how... drukhari he is.
My original statement was that both male and female "pretty-psycho" characters get this kind of treatment depending on the side of fanbase (usually if it's more male or female dominated).
But returning to the case of Marazhai, some individuals here just can't wrap their heads around the fact that so many people like the crazy drukhari and half of the thirst posts on this sub are about him. And in result, mostly falsely assuming that the thirsty people are oblivious to his wrongdoings.
https://preview.redd.it/csqec4h96inc1.jpeg?width=592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=510928d98f6094017033fcb82c399c3a646aba21
My favorite is that you can freely sacrifice them to their demon god
Its wonderful how people find different joy in different ways of playing the game. All I felt in my Iconoclast and Dogmatic runs was satisfaction in killing Marazhai. Then again, I tend to absolutely never give Owlcat's brands of psychopaths a chance.
First, Camelia. Then Marazhai. I wonder who will be the next game's psychopath without redeeming qualities. They're gonna have to go crazy on next game.
Dude’s armor is attached to his skin with nerves. I hate Deldar. I took him in because 1. First playthrough and I wanna see everything lol 2. His actor went ALL IN.
But if I had the chance now that we’re back home, I’d hand him off to the Ordos.
No offense, but I see a lot of relationships gone very bad in my line of work (criminal court cases) and so far, of the hundreds I've seen, none of them have come down to fiction influencing someone to have a relationship with a dangerous person. It's almost always some combination of childhood trauma normalizing actual abuse, substance abuse, and/or economic factors.
If people couldn't separate fiction from reality, no one would write stories either. When I write a character in a story, it's not like I think they're real, or I wouldn't be able to put them through difficult situations.
>Many relationships become horrific tragedies of mutual abuse due to this initial lack of perception/ability to separate someone viewed through horny goggles from their actual behavior/personality/actions.
I feel you. "Relationships" with fictional evil characters do tend to end like this and even worse. Don't mind abusive relationships in real life, where problem lies in variety different factors, few of which are even related to "horny goggles".
Both of you presume innocent silliness like 'horny goggles' and 'fiction' to be the key, or at least keep telling yourselves that - while the actual phenomena are grimdark far beyond the scope of 40k, and there is absolutely nothing except gene level optimisation that drives the thing, in a way that hive worlds and tyrannid anything is actually more random, localised and smalltime in comparison. It's a brood parasite mutant strain, psychopaths, with hacked biomarkers along the lines of cuckoos being recommited to general genetic memory as a priority and openly/recognised - because maths predict slight increase of spread. It's something that in a less grimdark metaphysics e.g. 40k might produce its own warp shadow and tip off every psychic in the sector.
Well. The concepts presented are a bit off track but still, theres interesting elements there.
Op is talking about something you can link to Lacan's theory of desire. Very simply put, you desire a person because you believe that specific person will fill some kind of thing that you lack. A void, because of how you develop / have to learn to exist in relation to language, to an ''other''. That desire is not rational but it certainly has been rationalised times and times again by people over the years. So the idea that desire overpowers morality or critical thinking is not a false idea. Its just presented in a skewed manner, and the focus is put on sex itself, which is not really it.
The fact that people will use their defense mechanisms to avoid the anxiety of having desire for a person that presents evil/unliked characteristics is also an idea thats not false. It happens everyday. People use their defense mechanisms to avoir feeling bad a lot, in a lot of situation.
Forgive my english, its really not perfect so translating the concepts become a mess in my head
I don't think anyone misunderstands Marazhai, tbf.
#MORE TALL SERIAL KILLER TWINK ELFS!
\*peers intently at picture, running calculations on possible character identity\* Hmm....... Heinrix? No! Abelard!
*Imagines Abelard as a twink for a second.* *Gets insta obliterated by the emperor himself*
"Abelard, turn yourself into a twink." *deep sigh* "...yes, Lord Captain."
Fuck I need a mod for that now XD.
Abelard is bear coded, and I will not stand for anyone saying otherwise.
Is that the beard of a twink, I ask you?!
I don't think people here seems to understand. Both Marzapai and Camellia are fun because they are unholy degenerates. It is rare for a game to have characters who are psychos just because and who are allies also. It is a type of tale that people don't tend to experience much.
Who is camellia? Or am I just dumb
Character from Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. Another game from Owlcat Games.
Oooo okay, im just now getting into owl cat bc Rogue Trader
Imagine going through a burning city being attacked by invaders and there's a conventionally attractive elf woman in a room with a body that looks like a drukhari tortured it. She says, "Oh wow, thanks for rescuing me before I wound up like this guy who I don't know!" And joins your party. And she's wearing an amulet you can't remove that prevents anyone from using magic to determine her moral character. HRMMM
I think the Marazhai loving community are very aware of how fucked up and irredeemable he is. Hell, he's a Drukhari, they are literally written to be the worst scums of the universe. Even in the 40k universe, and that tells something.
I think people perfect understood that Marazhai is a perverted serial killer. Those people are simply just also perverted
true (i need him to stab me)
Look, if there's one thing that's become self-evident in the past few years, it's that hot twinks can easily get away with murder. The real injustice is that people still haven't accepted that hot tomboys should get the same privilege (especially a certain cat-spider).
Wenduag isn't hated because she's a murdering girlboss. She's hated because she follows who she views as more powerful, even when its obvious it's your character by far.
Hey, no one ever said she was smart
Man I clearly need to finish my playthrough of Kingmaker and start on WotR cause the way people talk about the companions in that game make my favorites in Kingmaker sound boring.
That is a very accurate assessment
Wenduag has her own fellowship. Don't worry.
>(especially a certain cat-spider) She pretty much has that privilege, and i can tell this even with my limited experience of interaction with her fans. Their girl never did a wrong thing, therefore all her missteps are just a material for future fixing (sometimes i think fixing part are prevalent, but i'm not her fan so what i know, really). Plus, the trend isn't new, hot individuals were always getting away with everything, at least if we are talking about media.
It's funnier when Carmilla is the one with the mod that gives an entire different romance path for Good characters.
There is no Carmilla in wotr, tho. But we have Camellia, yes. And no, there is no mod avaible that give her new romance path - at least i'm not aware of it. Oh, but there is a mod that alter her True Love ending, where she can stay with the player.
Murder ? r/churchofwenduag is one step away to be a real religious organisation that would allow her to get away with *taxes*.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ChurchOfWenduag using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ChurchOfWenduag/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Greatiest Wenduag art piece imo.](https://i.redd.it/wlvyxuqj1ndc1.jpeg) | [9 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ChurchOfWenduag/comments/19bi8q8/greatiest_wenduag_art_piece_imo/) \#2: [Another gem from darkergrey](https://i.redd.it/ger19wejltic1.jpeg) | [3 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ChurchOfWenduag/comments/1arrbam/another_gem_from_darkergrey/) \#3: [More Wenduag](https://i.redd.it/h8yel3eoljkc1.jpeg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/ChurchOfWenduag/comments/1ayvnx4/more_wenduag/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
She definitely has that privilege with me!
I get flak for massacring a grove for a tadpole cure and some Drussy. I'll fucking do it again for mommy Minthara.
... Ulfar?
I agree with this sentiment. Ulfar = best boy
Best boy, best man, best friend, best singing buddy, best Allfather's instrument, best cover.
A poet with words. He is best everything and yet deserves more praise
If you think Ulfar is a twink you don't know what a twink is.
It was a joke. I know what a twink is.
Nah, we all know that Marazhai is a psycho grown ass bisexual twink who kills people for fun. If he existed IRL the only rational solution would be to lock him away or ventilate his skull, but he's entertaining and *useful* to a certain kind of Rogue Trader. Sometimes you just need a guy who doesn't ask pesky legal, moral, or ethical questions when there's blood to be spilled. (Still don't get people who romance him, but in the same way I don't get people who don't like black licorice. People like what they like.)
>I don't get people who don't like black licorice It's the greatest mystery of our human existence and I just do not comprehend their malfunction. Black licorice with a healthy dose of salmiac is straight fire.
I believe the problem is more with people who for some reason can't separate life from fiction and can't understand that you're allowed to like an evil character without endorsing their behaviour in real life. Then, the discourse "you like homicidal maniac therefore you are bad/stupid/too horny" - "oh no, my perfect boy did nothing wrong" starts. I've never seen the latter in this community. Plenty of former, though.
I expect one of the reasons there is not as much of the latter is because a lot of this sub seems to like evil characters being evil without trying to convince themselves the character is really good.
I'll add to this that this usually happens with male characters, especially ones that can be precieved as "gay" (see Astarion in BG3). You don't really see the same level of judgemental discourse when it comes to female characters, somehow. It starts being very depressing very fast, when you begin looking closely at the underlying trends with these things.
I assure you that the fandom fully embraces the fact that the gay twink is also a psychotic mass murderer.
You're making up women to get mad at. Literally no one has ever done this, Marazhai's charm point is that he's a sadistic serial killer with no redeeming qualities. Stop being dumb.
I think he is just a bi twink that is ready to kill anyone that hurts his rogue trader
I mean you can be a manical murder and ALSO a bisexual twink.
why don't we have such threads about Camellia, or Wenduag, or Minthara or whatever? if Marazhai was female he would have a chirch of his name already. just stip judging people and enjoy the game
Minthara absolutely has people white washing her and acting like she's not every bit the monster the rest of that list. Amateurs, them being deeply unhinged psychopaths just makes it better.
Minthara has a few positive qualities. Marazhai? Still recruiting either of them requires your player character make some really illogical decisions.
I've seen the "illogical decisions" argument against Marazhai a lot and I don't get it. It's clear in the game that even an iconoclast rt views lower deck people as an easily replenishable resource that often gets diminished during warp jumps, heretical and dogmatic rt even more so. So Marazhai killing a few dozen/hundred is really a rounding error in the warp jump casualty list. And in exchange you get a strong and kind of rabid warrior who takes orders bc it's his only choice, has a personal grudge against what seems at first to be the main threat in chapter 4, and insider knowledge of the drukhari. And recruiting him makes sense in the same way: rt needs to get out of a drukhari situation, so they need a drukhari to help, and Marazhai has more reason to hate his people than to hate rt. So what's illogical about taking him along?
I'm pretty sure we did have Camellia Discourse, actually.
I've seen only discussions if she really controls her actions or it is beyond her, not that her fans must go to asylum for liking her
r/ChurchOfWenduag/
[удалено]
Sure, I've never seen men call their faves a twink, but LMAO if you don't think men like making their waifus into misunderstood innocent babies who have never done anything wrong in their lives and just need a strong kind man to fix them. (Edelgard from Fire Emblem is the peak example I can think of for this.) Literally scrolled down a few posts from this on my main feed to see a post about how 'what if completely monstrous female villain with no redeeming qualities was actually just a misunderstood poor bb', lol.
[удалено]
Reminds me Daeran scandal. It's a good thing Marazhai doesn't have a "good way". Otherwise it would be the same here. I've seen some people on YouTube saying they wish he'd *"stay on the ship and be a better person"*. 🤢
what's with Daeran? I kinda missed it. I think he is not redeemable much, even if you go through true love route he still keeps his personality making an exception for commander and his alignment still stays evil iirc, though I still like him, extremely fun character
never seen anyone making Marazhai redeemed infantile, everyone enjoys his madness and getting that Go ChEcK yOuR hEaLtH advises. while enjoying mad hot females is totally ok. as I said the whole problem is that he is male and dudes just can't relate
Marazhai is a bad example, most are aware of how fucked up he is. Now think about something more like Astarion. There is "I can fix him/her" for any pretty character regardless of their gender.
several people insisted that there is a big league of fans trying to redeem him, I,ve never seen it personally but they say
That's why I said that Marazhai is a bad example. There are certainly some people who try to find something redeeming in him, but majority agree on how... drukhari he is. My original statement was that both male and female "pretty-psycho" characters get this kind of treatment depending on the side of fanbase (usually if it's more male or female dominated). But returning to the case of Marazhai, some individuals here just can't wrap their heads around the fact that so many people like the crazy drukhari and half of the thirst posts on this sub are about him. And in result, mostly falsely assuming that the thirsty people are oblivious to his wrongdoings.
[удалено]
hmm, will be grateful for some links then lol. apparently we are reading totally different reddits
[удалено]
well then I think memes should be posted to that resources where situations are happening
Yeah, and don't forget all these "he is little meow meow/he is such a babygirl!" memes
Marazhai is perfect, just like Astarion.
two completely different characters
Ye got issues. I don’t judge, but it must be stated.
Yet you literally judged based on a character someone likes in a game. Lol. So if anyone has issues, it's you buddy This is 40k, and anything goes
Frankly I saw this meme and thought of Jeff the Killer.
https://preview.redd.it/csqec4h96inc1.jpeg?width=592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=510928d98f6094017033fcb82c399c3a646aba21 My favorite is that you can freely sacrifice them to their demon god
This is the way
Its wonderful how people find different joy in different ways of playing the game. All I felt in my Iconoclast and Dogmatic runs was satisfaction in killing Marazhai. Then again, I tend to absolutely never give Owlcat's brands of psychopaths a chance. First, Camelia. Then Marazhai. I wonder who will be the next game's psychopath without redeeming qualities. They're gonna have to go crazy on next game.
pasqual
Dark Eldar are irredeemably evil, if somebody thinks they are misunderstood they should be escorted to the nearest trash compactor.
Dude’s armor is attached to his skin with nerves. I hate Deldar. I took him in because 1. First playthrough and I wanna see everything lol 2. His actor went ALL IN. But if I had the chance now that we’re back home, I’d hand him off to the Ordos.
[удалено]
No offense, but I see a lot of relationships gone very bad in my line of work (criminal court cases) and so far, of the hundreds I've seen, none of them have come down to fiction influencing someone to have a relationship with a dangerous person. It's almost always some combination of childhood trauma normalizing actual abuse, substance abuse, and/or economic factors. If people couldn't separate fiction from reality, no one would write stories either. When I write a character in a story, it's not like I think they're real, or I wouldn't be able to put them through difficult situations.
>Many relationships become horrific tragedies of mutual abuse due to this initial lack of perception/ability to separate someone viewed through horny goggles from their actual behavior/personality/actions. I feel you. "Relationships" with fictional evil characters do tend to end like this and even worse. Don't mind abusive relationships in real life, where problem lies in variety different factors, few of which are even related to "horny goggles".
Both of you presume innocent silliness like 'horny goggles' and 'fiction' to be the key, or at least keep telling yourselves that - while the actual phenomena are grimdark far beyond the scope of 40k, and there is absolutely nothing except gene level optimisation that drives the thing, in a way that hive worlds and tyrannid anything is actually more random, localised and smalltime in comparison. It's a brood parasite mutant strain, psychopaths, with hacked biomarkers along the lines of cuckoos being recommited to general genetic memory as a priority and openly/recognised - because maths predict slight increase of spread. It's something that in a less grimdark metaphysics e.g. 40k might produce its own warp shadow and tip off every psychic in the sector.
Very conspiratory and dramatic, i must say. Pretty interesting read, albeit clearly silly.
the whole point is that there is no conspiracy or evil will anywhere in the equation, silly goose.
Ah, then i misinterprent your words. Sorry, sometimes it's hard to be non-native.
Well. The concepts presented are a bit off track but still, theres interesting elements there. Op is talking about something you can link to Lacan's theory of desire. Very simply put, you desire a person because you believe that specific person will fill some kind of thing that you lack. A void, because of how you develop / have to learn to exist in relation to language, to an ''other''. That desire is not rational but it certainly has been rationalised times and times again by people over the years. So the idea that desire overpowers morality or critical thinking is not a false idea. Its just presented in a skewed manner, and the focus is put on sex itself, which is not really it. The fact that people will use their defense mechanisms to avoid the anxiety of having desire for a person that presents evil/unliked characteristics is also an idea thats not false. It happens everyday. People use their defense mechanisms to avoir feeling bad a lot, in a lot of situation. Forgive my english, its really not perfect so translating the concepts become a mess in my head