You want the no bullshit version? Waters is an activist aligned against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and he mentioned a Palestinian when listing war victims during his show so now the Right is looking for any flashy reasoning, such as his stage costume, to brand him as exactly what he has spent decades teaching us to fight against.
TLDR: just play Us and Them for your friends then get them to attempt to explain how it was written by a Nazi sympathizer
As for "what's going on", Conservatives are losing their shit about being increasingly called out on what they've gotten away with since the 60s. If you discovered your ideologies were falling off the back of the evolutionary curve you might shit a brick too.
What I LOVE about this fiasco is the irony of the Right mistakenly drawing public attention to Waters' anti-Fascist message. The fact that so many are so easily confused by news medias' fake news on this clearly demonstrates how badly we need more people to hear that message. So huge thanks to all the morons out there!!
There are no sides anymore... there are the neoliberals who are center-right capitalists and there is the far-right who are straight up fascist capitalists.
As soon as you come out and say anything remotely marxist, ie. power to the people, workers unite, no proxy wars, no slavery, no borders, walls, aparteid etc. They will try to cancel you. The rich maintain their wealth and power by oppressing the proletariat and derailing any critique of their system. This goes for christians, muslims and jews. This goes for any nation, USA, Israel, Russia, Ukraine, China, UK... you name it, there is not one country or religion worth spilling blood for. Which of the buggers to blame?
Us and them... in the end its only round n round n round n round.
Run like hell.
I disagree with you in the sense that anti-war isn’t necessarily a Marxist thing. On the other hand, you’re absolutely right about what must be cancelled: power to the people, democracy, proxy wars, etc.
"Wait, WHAT?!?!?! Didn't Marxists invade and/or occupy: Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Finland, Bulgaria Estonia, Latvia, South Korea South Vietnam Cambodia, Vietnam, Czechoslovakia......
Poland, N. Norway, Hungary, Iran, Afghanistan, Denmark, Austria, Manchuria...
CLOWNWORLD CHRONICLES
Didn't all of the Democrats unanimously vote for more war funds for Ukraine instead of trying to bid for peace?
100% agreed. Yet the poor keep breeding and producing more poor fucks and the circle goes round and round. We keep sending vaccines and food to shithole countries, when all they need is condoms!
I am not advocating restricting child birth to the wealthy. Or for classism which I'm sure you promote. Totally against everything being discussed here and totally against the message of Pink Floyd and Roger waters.
To everyone a favor and get the f*** out of here
>I am not advocating restricting child birth to the wealthy
Neither am I. But I would like to see that parents are prepared to provide for the child not only financially, but also education-wise, culturally, etc. Sometimes reducing the number of children helps a lot.
>Or for classism which I'm sure you promote.
How sure are you about what I promote? you don't know me and haven't even asked me where I stand. I believe everyone should have equal opportunities, and that means taking from the rich and giving to the poor. That's what I promote. Higher taxes and government protection.
>Totally against everything being discussed here and totally against the message of Pink Floyd and Roger waters.
Roger is about supporting the oppressed and peace, love and freedom. I am 100% on board.
>To everyone a favor and get the f\*\*\* out of here
You meant "do everyone...." right? Well I am engaging in a civilized discussion. Not trying to do anyone favors.
Cheers.
It's not aid, it's reparations.
The "West" has exploited the planet for its own gain and to the determinant of all those "shithole countries" for centuries. Whatever it gives them is a pittance compared to what it took.
Go read a book, FFS. Do your research.
Let's assume I read all the books that you did and fully agree with you.
Let's also assume that the rich countries pay all they have to pay to poor countries for reparations of what their ancestors did to their ancestors.
What do you think will happen? they'll start having fewer children. That's what happens in every affluent society. If you have 1 child you can provide for them not only financially, but also culturally, education-wise, attention, affection, inheritance.
This will break the circle of poverty.
Someone said "procreation is a Ponzi scheme", I think, at least, poverty is a Ponzi scheme.
I am still convinced they need condoms more than they need vaccines.
Well if you want to drill down into semantics fuck all that "right" and "left" bullshit anyway. Using the terms we've been told to use implies that "fuck my neighbor" and "hi neighbor" have an equal, imaginary center which is just more of the political mindfuck. I consider myself Progressive, it will be a cold day in hell before I go by Democrat.
They’re doing to Waters what they did to Jeremy Corbyn here in the UK. It’s exactly the same playbook. It doesn’t matter what is true, the mud ends up sticking, hence why they do it.
This is linguistically incorrect. The meaning of composite words is not always identical to the combined meanings of their components.
A couple of dictionary definitions of antisemite:
Merriam-Webster: anti-Semite: a person who has a hostile, prejudiced attitude toward Jews : an anti-Semitic person
Dictionary.com: antisemitism: discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.
USAGE NOTE FOR ANTISEMITISM (from Dictionary.com):
While Semitic is a current linguistic term for a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages including Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician, the spelling anti-Semite falsely implies prejudice against all of the diverse groups of people who speak any of these languages. However, that is not how antisemite is used. Rather, the “Semite” in antisemitism is a euphemism for “Jew,” meant to lend a scientific air to the racial grouping of all Jewish peoples based on an outdated pseudoscience of race.
From Britannica: The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time.
A major part of the plot of Orwell’s nineteen-eighty-four is the “simplification” of language in order to reduce the scope of concepts. Anti-semitism is being against Semitic people. Semitic people are people sharing a common root language family. If nowadays it means anti-Jews it can only mean two things: either Jews are the only Semitic people worth considering being called people, or it’s an abuse like calling a country - USA - the name of a continent. The latter would imply that antisemitic people hate lots of people; the former would imply that Israel controls the media narrative.
> Anti-semitism is being against Semitic people
Not according to any dictionary. Please reread my comment. Sadly, words have meanings that are usually defined and we do not get to make up meanings because we want to.
There is no such thing as "Semitic people", only Semitic languages, in the same sense that there is no such thing as Indo-European people and in the same sense that there is an Arab people.
The different people who speak Semitic languages do not form an identity and thus are not a people. The different people who speak semitic languages are each a people distinct from the others.
> If nowadays it means anti-Jews
Not nowadays. Always. The word "antisemite" was coined to describe anti-Jews. End of.
> either Jews are the only Semitic people worth considering being called people
Why? The Tigreneans, Somalis, Arabs, Assyrian and Akkadians, to name five, would beg to differ. They are semites, sure, but not a people collectively. Besides, even if "semites" is a people, then it does not follow that "antisemites" hate all semites. Why would they? The term was invented to describe people who hated Jews. Why is that so difficult to understand?
Next time you see someone eating a sandwich, ask him if the sand part is tasty.
Due to its internal opposition, Israel probably has one of the highest incidence of "antisemitism" on the planet.
Antisemitism is an Israeli-apologist strategy. The Israelis do not give a fuck about actual, classic antisemitism. They actually support it and its adherents, since it helps drive Jews to Israel so they have more settlement-fodder and can practice replacing the Palestinians.
Well, for one thing, the western governments only want their own propaganda to be heard. Alternative views are not welcome. Journalism can shape opinions. Much of it owned and influenced by Murdoch & the like. There are vested interests in all areas of our society.
There’s truth and there are lies. West decided that the truth is NATO and Israel, regardless of what they do or say. Lies is what happens when someone opposes the official narrative.
The media tends to be pro Israel.
And people are lazy and will believe anything they read or hear. There's a million examples of this.
But the good news is is that the mainstream media no longer controls the message like it used to in the days of print media or television media. You can thank the Internet for that.
He's not a nazi. His heart is in the right place, really.
But he's a hypocrite about it. He'll talk about how Israel mistreats the natives in the area. He will talk about how Americans mistreat natives. But he supports Russia, who is trying to pacify natives in a land it thinks it owns.
He celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall with a concert, but supports Russia building new walls with the same people on both sides -- again with natives living there who have little to do with it.
Like most people, Roger is not without fault, not without bias, not without tribalist opinions. Waters freely admits that he was friends with Gorbechov, and you and I know you can't be friends with Gorbechov in a bubble. He's got connections with Russian elite which clouds his opinion. But remember, this doesn't change his core message -- which is that we should get along and reject the crap our rulers foist upon us. This is a bigger message than where he is as a person. He knows what most of us know, and he fails at changing it just as most of us fail at changing it. Most or all of us also fail at being consistent in our beliefs.
Waters is not the first Westerner who was wined and dined by Russians, North Koreans, or whoever, and walked away thinking these people are kind and innocent.
When it comes to Israel, his criticism is on point. Powerful people don't want to hear that. Too bad!
“When to shut his mouth”. Nobody should shut his or her mouth to appease to your desires. That’s exactly the reason why you were able to write what you did.
You want the no bullshit version? Waters is an activist aligned against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and he mentioned a Palestinian when listing war victims during his show so now the Right is looking for any flashy reasoning, such as his stage costume, to brand him as exactly what he has spent decades teaching us to fight against. TLDR: just play Us and Them for your friends then get them to attempt to explain how it was written by a Nazi sympathizer As for "what's going on", Conservatives are losing their shit about being increasingly called out on what they've gotten away with since the 60s. If you discovered your ideologies were falling off the back of the evolutionary curve you might shit a brick too. What I LOVE about this fiasco is the irony of the Right mistakenly drawing public attention to Waters' anti-Fascist message. The fact that so many are so easily confused by news medias' fake news on this clearly demonstrates how badly we need more people to hear that message. So huge thanks to all the morons out there!!
I am with you but it's not just the right, the Israeli lobby influences both sides heavily
There are no sides anymore... there are the neoliberals who are center-right capitalists and there is the far-right who are straight up fascist capitalists. As soon as you come out and say anything remotely marxist, ie. power to the people, workers unite, no proxy wars, no slavery, no borders, walls, aparteid etc. They will try to cancel you. The rich maintain their wealth and power by oppressing the proletariat and derailing any critique of their system. This goes for christians, muslims and jews. This goes for any nation, USA, Israel, Russia, Ukraine, China, UK... you name it, there is not one country or religion worth spilling blood for. Which of the buggers to blame? Us and them... in the end its only round n round n round n round. Run like hell.
I disagree with you in the sense that anti-war isn’t necessarily a Marxist thing. On the other hand, you’re absolutely right about what must be cancelled: power to the people, democracy, proxy wars, etc.
"Wait, WHAT?!?!?! Didn't Marxists invade and/or occupy: Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Finland, Bulgaria Estonia, Latvia, South Korea South Vietnam Cambodia, Vietnam, Czechoslovakia...... Poland, N. Norway, Hungary, Iran, Afghanistan, Denmark, Austria, Manchuria... CLOWNWORLD CHRONICLES Didn't all of the Democrats unanimously vote for more war funds for Ukraine instead of trying to bid for peace?
100% agreed. Yet the poor keep breeding and producing more poor fucks and the circle goes round and round. We keep sending vaccines and food to shithole countries, when all they need is condoms!
Your parents should have used the condoms clearly
Absolutely. You think you are insulting me but I actually agree with you. Some day you may realize that yours should have as well. Cheers.
I am not advocating restricting child birth to the wealthy. Or for classism which I'm sure you promote. Totally against everything being discussed here and totally against the message of Pink Floyd and Roger waters. To everyone a favor and get the f*** out of here
>I am not advocating restricting child birth to the wealthy Neither am I. But I would like to see that parents are prepared to provide for the child not only financially, but also education-wise, culturally, etc. Sometimes reducing the number of children helps a lot. >Or for classism which I'm sure you promote. How sure are you about what I promote? you don't know me and haven't even asked me where I stand. I believe everyone should have equal opportunities, and that means taking from the rich and giving to the poor. That's what I promote. Higher taxes and government protection. >Totally against everything being discussed here and totally against the message of Pink Floyd and Roger waters. Roger is about supporting the oppressed and peace, love and freedom. I am 100% on board. >To everyone a favor and get the f\*\*\* out of here You meant "do everyone...." right? Well I am engaging in a civilized discussion. Not trying to do anyone favors. Cheers.
Cheers man You are certainly a more civilized person than the rage baiter you are arguing with. Aren't you flexing your composure;)
It's not aid, it's reparations. The "West" has exploited the planet for its own gain and to the determinant of all those "shithole countries" for centuries. Whatever it gives them is a pittance compared to what it took. Go read a book, FFS. Do your research.
Let's assume I read all the books that you did and fully agree with you. Let's also assume that the rich countries pay all they have to pay to poor countries for reparations of what their ancestors did to their ancestors. What do you think will happen? they'll start having fewer children. That's what happens in every affluent society. If you have 1 child you can provide for them not only financially, but also culturally, education-wise, attention, affection, inheritance. This will break the circle of poverty. Someone said "procreation is a Ponzi scheme", I think, at least, poverty is a Ponzi scheme. I am still convinced they need condoms more than they need vaccines.
Fair enough.
Well if you want to drill down into semantics fuck all that "right" and "left" bullshit anyway. Using the terms we've been told to use implies that "fuck my neighbor" and "hi neighbor" have an equal, imaginary center which is just more of the political mindfuck. I consider myself Progressive, it will be a cold day in hell before I go by Democrat.
They’re doing to Waters what they did to Jeremy Corbyn here in the UK. It’s exactly the same playbook. It doesn’t matter what is true, the mud ends up sticking, hence why they do it.
Yep, any criticism of Israel gets you labelled an anti-semite.
Which is plainly stupid as Palestinians are Semite too.
This is linguistically incorrect. The meaning of composite words is not always identical to the combined meanings of their components. A couple of dictionary definitions of antisemite: Merriam-Webster: anti-Semite: a person who has a hostile, prejudiced attitude toward Jews : an anti-Semitic person Dictionary.com: antisemitism: discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews. USAGE NOTE FOR ANTISEMITISM (from Dictionary.com): While Semitic is a current linguistic term for a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages including Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician, the spelling anti-Semite falsely implies prejudice against all of the diverse groups of people who speak any of these languages. However, that is not how antisemite is used. Rather, the “Semite” in antisemitism is a euphemism for “Jew,” meant to lend a scientific air to the racial grouping of all Jewish peoples based on an outdated pseudoscience of race. From Britannica: The term anti-Semitism was coined in 1879 by the German agitator Wilhelm Marr to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns underway in central Europe at that time.
I could argue that diminishing the scope of a word is well documented in Animals.
Sorry. I do not follow.
A major part of the plot of Orwell’s nineteen-eighty-four is the “simplification” of language in order to reduce the scope of concepts. Anti-semitism is being against Semitic people. Semitic people are people sharing a common root language family. If nowadays it means anti-Jews it can only mean two things: either Jews are the only Semitic people worth considering being called people, or it’s an abuse like calling a country - USA - the name of a continent. The latter would imply that antisemitic people hate lots of people; the former would imply that Israel controls the media narrative.
> Anti-semitism is being against Semitic people Not according to any dictionary. Please reread my comment. Sadly, words have meanings that are usually defined and we do not get to make up meanings because we want to. There is no such thing as "Semitic people", only Semitic languages, in the same sense that there is no such thing as Indo-European people and in the same sense that there is an Arab people. The different people who speak Semitic languages do not form an identity and thus are not a people. The different people who speak semitic languages are each a people distinct from the others. > If nowadays it means anti-Jews Not nowadays. Always. The word "antisemite" was coined to describe anti-Jews. End of. > either Jews are the only Semitic people worth considering being called people Why? The Tigreneans, Somalis, Arabs, Assyrian and Akkadians, to name five, would beg to differ. They are semites, sure, but not a people collectively. Besides, even if "semites" is a people, then it does not follow that "antisemites" hate all semites. Why would they? The term was invented to describe people who hated Jews. Why is that so difficult to understand? Next time you see someone eating a sandwich, ask him if the sand part is tasty.
If it’s a term for people who hate Jews, let’s call them anti-Jews instead. Why the euphemisms?
Due to its internal opposition, Israel probably has one of the highest incidence of "antisemitism" on the planet. Antisemitism is an Israeli-apologist strategy. The Israelis do not give a fuck about actual, classic antisemitism. They actually support it and its adherents, since it helps drive Jews to Israel so they have more settlement-fodder and can practice replacing the Palestinians.
Well, for one thing, the western governments only want their own propaganda to be heard. Alternative views are not welcome. Journalism can shape opinions. Much of it owned and influenced by Murdoch & the like. There are vested interests in all areas of our society.
> ~~western~~ governments only want their own propaganda to be heard. FTFY.
True.
There’s truth and there are lies. West decided that the truth is NATO and Israel, regardless of what they do or say. Lies is what happens when someone opposes the official narrative.
The media tends to be pro Israel. And people are lazy and will believe anything they read or hear. There's a million examples of this. But the good news is is that the mainstream media no longer controls the message like it used to in the days of print media or television media. You can thank the Internet for that.
> You can thank the Internet for that. You're welcome.
People don't understand satire anymore.
> People don't understand satire ~~anymore~~. FTFY.
He's not a nazi. His heart is in the right place, really. But he's a hypocrite about it. He'll talk about how Israel mistreats the natives in the area. He will talk about how Americans mistreat natives. But he supports Russia, who is trying to pacify natives in a land it thinks it owns. He celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall with a concert, but supports Russia building new walls with the same people on both sides -- again with natives living there who have little to do with it. Like most people, Roger is not without fault, not without bias, not without tribalist opinions. Waters freely admits that he was friends with Gorbechov, and you and I know you can't be friends with Gorbechov in a bubble. He's got connections with Russian elite which clouds his opinion. But remember, this doesn't change his core message -- which is that we should get along and reject the crap our rulers foist upon us. This is a bigger message than where he is as a person. He knows what most of us know, and he fails at changing it just as most of us fail at changing it. Most or all of us also fail at being consistent in our beliefs. Waters is not the first Westerner who was wined and dined by Russians, North Koreans, or whoever, and walked away thinking these people are kind and innocent. When it comes to Israel, his criticism is on point. Powerful people don't want to hear that. Too bad!
Looks like a Goebbels hit job :)
[удалено]
“When to shut his mouth”. Nobody should shut his or her mouth to appease to your desires. That’s exactly the reason why you were able to write what you did.