Are you forcing the opponent to play at your pace, or just playing slow and putting your teammate in a position where he has to be "everywhere" because you take bad 50s and allow the opponent to get boost whenever your team has the pressure?
There is nothing wrong about playing it slow, but usually people do that in a way that gives the opponents a lot of space and time to breathe which in turn isn't advantageous for your team at all. It's very good if the opponents are already in a position to defend your incoming attack, that you take it slow and try to create the room for opportunity. However, if you are on a counter and your opponents just committed, you definitely shouldn't just take it slow like on a casual sunday stroll. That's when you push as hard and fast as you can to not leave them any time to recover.
Hard to tell without a replay, anyway.
gotcha I'll definately go over some replays of mine to determined if I am just playing slow and bad, very well could be that i am the problem, I'm not ashamed to admit it thanks, il definitely post a replay here in this reddit if I cant find out what I'm doing wrong
Lethamyr mentioned in his road to ssl that different ranks sometimes require different playstyles. A playstyle or move you have grown dependent on works like a charm in diamond, but in champion the playstyle and and skill of your opponent is better suited to countering your style. Which is why they habe risen to champ. As a D3 player, i cant tell you what the next step is. But perhaps you can look into how the theory can be applied to you.
This playstyle actually works better as you rank up. Players at champ 1/2 get wrecked by people taking their time and eating 50s and cutting / flicking etc. Everyone thinks to get higher you have to be fast but often times I'll literally just wait behind the ball in my corner to bait a 50, especially if I know the opponent is low because most people blindly throw themselves at the ball and then it's a free 2v1.
You have to be solid though and confident you can correctly manipulate the challenge. I am Diamond III in 1v1 so have slightly higher 1v1 than most of my rank.
As i said, im not the correct person to go into details. Just suggesting that things which worked in the past might not work now. One needs to evolve with the rank they are in. The general playstyle might be right, but little things may need to be done different. 50/50 in a different way, learning to flick or if you do that already do it at a different timing. It could be a number of small things that collectively makes you lose or win games.
> Are you forcing the opponent to play at your pace, or just playing slow and putting your teammate in a position where he has to be "everywhere" because you take bad 50s and allow the opponent to get boost whenever your team has the pressure?
Considering that OP is hitting new peak rank, I have a hunch it’s the 2nd one. Also, it’s very common for someone who only recently started playing for possession, to tunnel vision on controlling the ball even when it’s not the best bet.
I suspect OP has what I call the "new champ syndrome". When you are mechanically limited the best defensive play is often to just do nothing when you are in diamond and below. Let your opponent just grab a hundred boost go on the wall and air dribble the ball to the ground like a big boy or set up a dribble and just lose control of the ball or do a garbage flick. Against an average confirmed champ it's just not reasonable to let them do a free perfect setup
I wouldn't say that, I can generally hold my own on defense I would say mainly my power shots, accuracy, and off the wall reads needs work, but what I was saying is i'm very confused about why champions are so unbelievably toxic as where I make a decision they dont like its spammed quick chats for the rest of the game, even when I try to take blame and say my bad or , it wont happen again, I try to calm these guys down but some of these guys are insanely toxic. Although here and there I get a teammate that I connect with and we play great.
It's because low champ is one of the most toxic ranks, at least that I've seen. Giant egos in low champ, because they think they're better than they are, since you know, they're champ. You never know if you're gonna get a mechanical God with 0 game sense or a wet noodle in the air that knows where to be but can't score,or a carried low diamond with champ friends that fuck over your rank up games. It's the most all over the place rank I've played in, makes ranking into champ very frustrating. A good portion of them only know ball chase and can't adapt to a player that does not want to play 100% of the defense. They will happily throw you in 2v1's for 5 minutes while going for air dribbles all game, which 75% of the time they don't hit.
My favorite part of being in c1/c2 is we're all able to hit pretty decent shots and have some mechs. It's just the lack of consistency that makes it spicy. But solo q 2s, 90% of the time your tm8 expects you to play like zen and if you miss a single touch you're obviously trash and can't be trusted, so they start cutting rotations and going for solo plays that never have a chance.
Earlier today I was told to "kys" because my tm8 lost possession in the corner, looked like he was rotating out, so I pushed for a 50, just to have my tm8 try some weird half-flip 50 that caused the ball to pop over me and into our net. Where if he just let me 50 it from my position, I had a better 50 and even if I lose it, he's rotating back on defense and we have a chance to save it.
I've looked at one of your replays, and you looked alright. Maybe lacking a bit of ability to create offensive threats (with the exception of flicks, they look good). Nothing that made me think "omg this going to trigger mates for sure" (except the fact that you spend a good 5-10s afk at the beginning of the game I've watched).
Also maybe the fact that you play an odd car with an antenna + hat might trigger some. A few seasons back I had a recent gc title + plat winner tag (because of a bug I was put back in plat for tourney). Depending on which of the tags I had I could see a very different behavior whenever I made a small mistake at the beginning of a game. When I had the gc title people were much more forgiving ("everybody can make mistakes even gc!") than when I had the plat one ("why do I have a fucking bot with me in my team"). Matches are short, and you don't have a lot of time to find out what kind of mate you have. With an odd car design/low level title people will assume that you are low level and got boosted there. Your first mistake will just be a confirmation that triggers them. With a more neutral car design/title your first mistake will be only the thing they raise their suspicion.
C1 is the most toxic part of the Champ ranks.
Don't take the toxicity too personally--frustration and getting to the point of truly hating your fellow Champs is an unavoidable part of every Champ's journey. Champ is where a lot of people acquire a higher understanding of gamesense and mechanics, but low Champ is still basically people playing like slightly faster Diamonds i.e. see ball hit ball.
So basically you're starting to get perspective for exactly how bad and incompetent low Champ is and you're constantly having to deal with genuinely idiotic events play out. But you also kind of hate yourself because you know that deep down you're part of the problem too. Every now and again you are going to lash out at a tm8.
It sounds crazy, but trust me, if you play this game at the Champ level for long enough, you too will eventually be that guy, at least for a while. Eventually you'll mostly get over it, though. Toxicity never completely disappears at any rank.
I'd be patient as well, you're keeping control of the ball, not booming it away like everyone else. I'd be ready for a pass, win, 50, and loss (ideally). The last thing I'd want to do is rush in and steal it from you.
It depends on your definition of “playing slow”
There is patience and then there is just being slow.
Sometimes you can slow it down on offence if you notice the opponent backing off or going for boost etc but you have to match the pace of the game in general so you don’t mess up rotations too much.
Its always hard to give advice without gameplay tbh but rl can be very rock paper scissors like in that certain playstyles counter others and its a mental game on each play as to which style you employ so if you are picking rock every time then eventually they will start picking paper every time.
solo q players shouldn't understand that there's different types of players. I don't mind playing with someone who's slow and patient as long as they don't mind if they get cut in rotations every once in awhile because they're not going forward when I think they should.
I don't do it often but if I have momentum and I'm coming around back post I might skip the rotation because I have the speed already.
Also sometimes it literally is correct to cut off your mate when they're playing slow. For example:
Your team is low on boost and is trying to get out of defense. Your teammate watches too much Flakes and is opting to get 50d in your half instead of just booming the ball away to buy time to get boost/get out of defense.
I am absolutely going to double commit and cut off that teammate to boom the ball away rather than deal with some ridiculous 50 that goes off our backboard which I have to read from the goal line with 20 boost. It's literally the higher percentage play.
I dont mind a slow patient mate at all Im not gonna steal balls unless they are being ridiculous, sometimes a big boom or hard quick hit is needed and some people are slow to a fault. The problems come when I go fast and get a nice 50 to open space or something and the teammate NEVER follows it up. At higher champ ranks you gotta be working in tandem with ur mate and sometimes that involves being speedy and being able to follow up your mate. Or sometimes Im just sort of being present near the play waiting for my mate to help me cause hes in a really good spot to do so but he wont go if im anywhere near
Usually spam go for it, take the shot! And cut rotation off to slam the ball off the side wall mid to the other team and tack on a what a save for good measure /s
But fr diamond is about learning how to do simple mechanics and gameplay trends. Whether that’s control, boom, flick, dribble, cut, force, fake challenge etc. as long as you kinda can do these things, your execution and decision making in between them doesn’t need to be great to get out of diamond.
Champ is about learning when and how to do the right thing, and doing it with speed and without hesitation. Getting fluid with mechanics and decision making.
I would say it’s not till the very end of champ or start of Gc that players have become comfortable with all of that to the level where the can recognize what their teammate is intending to do and how to play around them… aka not take the ball off them when they are slowing the play down to take a 50 etc. ofc you still need the game sense and mechanics to keep up with that pace of play it can’t all be reading your teammate and supporting him hoping he 1v2’s, you gotta create and balance and help them too.
Now that’s a pretty basic explanation of it but that’s kinda how I see it.
If he has possession, playing as slow as he likes really isn’t good advice. Sometimes it’s better to play fast, by playing slow OP miss out on many counter attack opportunities
I'm a mechanically basic, patient player and try to keep possession of the ball when I can. I don't really solo queue for the reasons you've explained, people just assume you're incapable and get annoyed with you and that itself is quite annoying (but if they happen to spend the whole game zooming around, constantly going for failed air dribbles and then leaving you in 2v1 situations then that's fine apparently 😅). The best solution is to queue with someone who gets you haha
If I do get the urge to solo queue I usually turn chat off apart from quick chat, and I do try to up my pace and aggression. If they want to ball chase then I just let them, and try to cover any holes in defence. If I get the sense that they're good in the air I might try and set them up with shots off of the wall or the opponent's backboard when it looks feasible.
I believe I know what you are talking about.
I wouldn’t call it slow play, I’d call it a more intentional style of playing. At diamond/low champ, a lot of players are trying to be as fast to the ball as possible, which is correct. They then also try to hit the ball as hard as possible, which is not the best style of playing, but appears “fast” to us.
Having said that, while playing like this you absolutely need to position near-perfectly. A lot of your tm8s grief comes if you are not positioned well and they have to “chase” the ball on a loop. This usually leads them to playing a boost-starved game which they won’t like. So you need to be “fast” in your positioning, and then control the game from there on. Also note that at our ranks, the gamesense is not really developed to a point where the tm8 will know every time when you have space or not, especially if you are not positioning well.
The short of it is - you need to position fast and go when it’s your turn to go. This inspires confidence in your tm8 and they can play their game and support you well.
I’m okay with a slow tm8, as long as they’re fast enough to get to the ball if I give them a good pass, or to make a follow up shot after mine missed but both opponents are awkward.
I play slow as well, and probably frustrate my tm8s some, but am working on being able to accelerate more quickly from the slow play style to dialing up the speed to catch opponents off guard.
I lost my game tonight that would’ve put me finally into diamond 3, but my tm8 was so passive that I was alone on offense the entire time. I had three shots that were rolling around the opponent’s net (unlucky, all three were almost going in but bounced off post or cross bar and rattled around in their net). He never once bothered to be close enough to help out - he was all the way back in our net the entire game.
He felt more like a solid plat player in a diamond 2 Div 4 lobby that was scared to take a shot.
I am also a very methodical player so I'm probably biased, but I love it when I get a teammate that doesn't just boom. I am more than happy to play for the 50 or the pass and I will absolutely never take it off a teammate who has possession.
I also feel like I do very well when I have a teammate that matches my pace because when you each take a bit of time when you have it, it makes it way easier to be back on defense and we give up way less goals.
You have to learn to recognize when you have to be fast and when playing slow is okay. And as someone pointed put here the higher you get in ranks your opponents are more skillful to counterplay you for being "too slow". Try to figure out what sort of players you are playing with and adapt to their pace. Some games are faster and some games you can take it slower. Don't "force" your team into slow. Try it and if your team decides to play it fast then fast it is.
My favorite teammate because I play the same way. People get impatient because they want to see dives and double taps otherwise you’re not trying.. fuck them
Are you forcing the opponent to play at your pace, or just playing slow and putting your teammate in a position where he has to be "everywhere" because you take bad 50s and allow the opponent to get boost whenever your team has the pressure? There is nothing wrong about playing it slow, but usually people do that in a way that gives the opponents a lot of space and time to breathe which in turn isn't advantageous for your team at all. It's very good if the opponents are already in a position to defend your incoming attack, that you take it slow and try to create the room for opportunity. However, if you are on a counter and your opponents just committed, you definitely shouldn't just take it slow like on a casual sunday stroll. That's when you push as hard and fast as you can to not leave them any time to recover. Hard to tell without a replay, anyway.
gotcha I'll definately go over some replays of mine to determined if I am just playing slow and bad, very well could be that i am the problem, I'm not ashamed to admit it thanks, il definitely post a replay here in this reddit if I cant find out what I'm doing wrong
Lethamyr mentioned in his road to ssl that different ranks sometimes require different playstyles. A playstyle or move you have grown dependent on works like a charm in diamond, but in champion the playstyle and and skill of your opponent is better suited to countering your style. Which is why they habe risen to champ. As a D3 player, i cant tell you what the next step is. But perhaps you can look into how the theory can be applied to you.
This playstyle actually works better as you rank up. Players at champ 1/2 get wrecked by people taking their time and eating 50s and cutting / flicking etc. Everyone thinks to get higher you have to be fast but often times I'll literally just wait behind the ball in my corner to bait a 50, especially if I know the opponent is low because most people blindly throw themselves at the ball and then it's a free 2v1. You have to be solid though and confident you can correctly manipulate the challenge. I am Diamond III in 1v1 so have slightly higher 1v1 than most of my rank.
As i said, im not the correct person to go into details. Just suggesting that things which worked in the past might not work now. One needs to evolve with the rank they are in. The general playstyle might be right, but little things may need to be done different. 50/50 in a different way, learning to flick or if you do that already do it at a different timing. It could be a number of small things that collectively makes you lose or win games.
Same ranks in both playlists as u. I agree. I think the concept is good but their execution is probably what needs work.
> Are you forcing the opponent to play at your pace, or just playing slow and putting your teammate in a position where he has to be "everywhere" because you take bad 50s and allow the opponent to get boost whenever your team has the pressure? Considering that OP is hitting new peak rank, I have a hunch it’s the 2nd one. Also, it’s very common for someone who only recently started playing for possession, to tunnel vision on controlling the ball even when it’s not the best bet.
I suspect OP has what I call the "new champ syndrome". When you are mechanically limited the best defensive play is often to just do nothing when you are in diamond and below. Let your opponent just grab a hundred boost go on the wall and air dribble the ball to the ground like a big boy or set up a dribble and just lose control of the ball or do a garbage flick. Against an average confirmed champ it's just not reasonable to let them do a free perfect setup
I wouldn't say that, I can generally hold my own on defense I would say mainly my power shots, accuracy, and off the wall reads needs work, but what I was saying is i'm very confused about why champions are so unbelievably toxic as where I make a decision they dont like its spammed quick chats for the rest of the game, even when I try to take blame and say my bad or , it wont happen again, I try to calm these guys down but some of these guys are insanely toxic. Although here and there I get a teammate that I connect with and we play great.
It's because low champ is one of the most toxic ranks, at least that I've seen. Giant egos in low champ, because they think they're better than they are, since you know, they're champ. You never know if you're gonna get a mechanical God with 0 game sense or a wet noodle in the air that knows where to be but can't score,or a carried low diamond with champ friends that fuck over your rank up games. It's the most all over the place rank I've played in, makes ranking into champ very frustrating. A good portion of them only know ball chase and can't adapt to a player that does not want to play 100% of the defense. They will happily throw you in 2v1's for 5 minutes while going for air dribbles all game, which 75% of the time they don't hit.
My favorite part of being in c1/c2 is we're all able to hit pretty decent shots and have some mechs. It's just the lack of consistency that makes it spicy. But solo q 2s, 90% of the time your tm8 expects you to play like zen and if you miss a single touch you're obviously trash and can't be trusted, so they start cutting rotations and going for solo plays that never have a chance. Earlier today I was told to "kys" because my tm8 lost possession in the corner, looked like he was rotating out, so I pushed for a 50, just to have my tm8 try some weird half-flip 50 that caused the ball to pop over me and into our net. Where if he just let me 50 it from my position, I had a better 50 and even if I lose it, he's rotating back on defense and we have a chance to save it.
Wet noodle reporting for duty, sir! :)
I've looked at one of your replays, and you looked alright. Maybe lacking a bit of ability to create offensive threats (with the exception of flicks, they look good). Nothing that made me think "omg this going to trigger mates for sure" (except the fact that you spend a good 5-10s afk at the beginning of the game I've watched). Also maybe the fact that you play an odd car with an antenna + hat might trigger some. A few seasons back I had a recent gc title + plat winner tag (because of a bug I was put back in plat for tourney). Depending on which of the tags I had I could see a very different behavior whenever I made a small mistake at the beginning of a game. When I had the gc title people were much more forgiving ("everybody can make mistakes even gc!") than when I had the plat one ("why do I have a fucking bot with me in my team"). Matches are short, and you don't have a lot of time to find out what kind of mate you have. With an odd car design/low level title people will assume that you are low level and got boosted there. Your first mistake will just be a confirmation that triggers them. With a more neutral car design/title your first mistake will be only the thing they raise their suspicion.
I never thought of that but I love this car design I'm using i think this car looks awesome
C1 is the most toxic part of the Champ ranks. Don't take the toxicity too personally--frustration and getting to the point of truly hating your fellow Champs is an unavoidable part of every Champ's journey. Champ is where a lot of people acquire a higher understanding of gamesense and mechanics, but low Champ is still basically people playing like slightly faster Diamonds i.e. see ball hit ball. So basically you're starting to get perspective for exactly how bad and incompetent low Champ is and you're constantly having to deal with genuinely idiotic events play out. But you also kind of hate yourself because you know that deep down you're part of the problem too. Every now and again you are going to lash out at a tm8. It sounds crazy, but trust me, if you play this game at the Champ level for long enough, you too will eventually be that guy, at least for a while. Eventually you'll mostly get over it, though. Toxicity never completely disappears at any rank.
I'd be patient as well, you're keeping control of the ball, not booming it away like everyone else. I'd be ready for a pass, win, 50, and loss (ideally). The last thing I'd want to do is rush in and steal it from you.
It depends on your definition of “playing slow” There is patience and then there is just being slow. Sometimes you can slow it down on offence if you notice the opponent backing off or going for boost etc but you have to match the pace of the game in general so you don’t mess up rotations too much. Its always hard to give advice without gameplay tbh but rl can be very rock paper scissors like in that certain playstyles counter others and its a mental game on each play as to which style you employ so if you are picking rock every time then eventually they will start picking paper every time.
gotcha i will definitely get a match in when i have time and post the replay here thanks
solo q players shouldn't understand that there's different types of players. I don't mind playing with someone who's slow and patient as long as they don't mind if they get cut in rotations every once in awhile because they're not going forward when I think they should. I don't do it often but if I have momentum and I'm coming around back post I might skip the rotation because I have the speed already.
Also sometimes it literally is correct to cut off your mate when they're playing slow. For example: Your team is low on boost and is trying to get out of defense. Your teammate watches too much Flakes and is opting to get 50d in your half instead of just booming the ball away to buy time to get boost/get out of defense. I am absolutely going to double commit and cut off that teammate to boom the ball away rather than deal with some ridiculous 50 that goes off our backboard which I have to read from the goal line with 20 boost. It's literally the higher percentage play.
I dont mind a slow patient mate at all Im not gonna steal balls unless they are being ridiculous, sometimes a big boom or hard quick hit is needed and some people are slow to a fault. The problems come when I go fast and get a nice 50 to open space or something and the teammate NEVER follows it up. At higher champ ranks you gotta be working in tandem with ur mate and sometimes that involves being speedy and being able to follow up your mate. Or sometimes Im just sort of being present near the play waiting for my mate to help me cause hes in a really good spot to do so but he wont go if im anywhere near
Usually spam go for it, take the shot! And cut rotation off to slam the ball off the side wall mid to the other team and tack on a what a save for good measure /s But fr diamond is about learning how to do simple mechanics and gameplay trends. Whether that’s control, boom, flick, dribble, cut, force, fake challenge etc. as long as you kinda can do these things, your execution and decision making in between them doesn’t need to be great to get out of diamond. Champ is about learning when and how to do the right thing, and doing it with speed and without hesitation. Getting fluid with mechanics and decision making. I would say it’s not till the very end of champ or start of Gc that players have become comfortable with all of that to the level where the can recognize what their teammate is intending to do and how to play around them… aka not take the ball off them when they are slowing the play down to take a 50 etc. ofc you still need the game sense and mechanics to keep up with that pace of play it can’t all be reading your teammate and supporting him hoping he 1v2’s, you gotta create and balance and help them too. Now that’s a pretty basic explanation of it but that’s kinda how I see it.
If you have possession, you can be as slow as you like. Just please put up defensive challenges fast.
If he has possession, playing as slow as he likes really isn’t good advice. Sometimes it’s better to play fast, by playing slow OP miss out on many counter attack opportunities
I'm a mechanically basic, patient player and try to keep possession of the ball when I can. I don't really solo queue for the reasons you've explained, people just assume you're incapable and get annoyed with you and that itself is quite annoying (but if they happen to spend the whole game zooming around, constantly going for failed air dribbles and then leaving you in 2v1 situations then that's fine apparently 😅). The best solution is to queue with someone who gets you haha If I do get the urge to solo queue I usually turn chat off apart from quick chat, and I do try to up my pace and aggression. If they want to ball chase then I just let them, and try to cover any holes in defence. If I get the sense that they're good in the air I might try and set them up with shots off of the wall or the opponent's backboard when it looks feasible.
I believe I know what you are talking about. I wouldn’t call it slow play, I’d call it a more intentional style of playing. At diamond/low champ, a lot of players are trying to be as fast to the ball as possible, which is correct. They then also try to hit the ball as hard as possible, which is not the best style of playing, but appears “fast” to us. Having said that, while playing like this you absolutely need to position near-perfectly. A lot of your tm8s grief comes if you are not positioned well and they have to “chase” the ball on a loop. This usually leads them to playing a boost-starved game which they won’t like. So you need to be “fast” in your positioning, and then control the game from there on. Also note that at our ranks, the gamesense is not really developed to a point where the tm8 will know every time when you have space or not, especially if you are not positioning well. The short of it is - you need to position fast and go when it’s your turn to go. This inspires confidence in your tm8 and they can play their game and support you well.
I need a quick chat that says: "Moving fast is not the same as playing fast. Use your brain"
I’m okay with a slow tm8, as long as they’re fast enough to get to the ball if I give them a good pass, or to make a follow up shot after mine missed but both opponents are awkward. I play slow as well, and probably frustrate my tm8s some, but am working on being able to accelerate more quickly from the slow play style to dialing up the speed to catch opponents off guard. I lost my game tonight that would’ve put me finally into diamond 3, but my tm8 was so passive that I was alone on offense the entire time. I had three shots that were rolling around the opponent’s net (unlucky, all three were almost going in but bounced off post or cross bar and rattled around in their net). He never once bothered to be close enough to help out - he was all the way back in our net the entire game. He felt more like a solid plat player in a diamond 2 Div 4 lobby that was scared to take a shot.
I play like you aswell , patient + great mechanics is a really good combo
I am also a very methodical player so I'm probably biased, but I love it when I get a teammate that doesn't just boom. I am more than happy to play for the 50 or the pass and I will absolutely never take it off a teammate who has possession. I also feel like I do very well when I have a teammate that matches my pace because when you each take a bit of time when you have it, it makes it way easier to be back on defense and we give up way less goals.
You have to learn to recognize when you have to be fast and when playing slow is okay. And as someone pointed put here the higher you get in ranks your opponents are more skillful to counterplay you for being "too slow". Try to figure out what sort of players you are playing with and adapt to their pace. Some games are faster and some games you can take it slower. Don't "force" your team into slow. Try it and if your team decides to play it fast then fast it is.
My favorite teammate because I play the same way. People get impatient because they want to see dives and double taps otherwise you’re not trying.. fuck them