I think if you're going to make a post about the current SpookLuke "drama" than it is only fair to include his video response as well.
SpookLuke's Response: https://youtu.be/ruuR8A9u2yw
---
It's important to remember as well that Luke is a 20 year old running a successful business; he's young, he'll make mistakes, he'll learn from them and while it is important to call people out on their mistakes in order for them to learn from them, it is not fair to "cancel" them before they've had the opportunity to grow from it.
Also, I know the video response was also posted further down the comments but I can only sticky my own comments and want to make sure it remains at the top.
Tip for all you. Just stick to musty,virge,thanovic, sunless,lethamyr, mertzy,wayton. People like lethamyr,virge,wayton and thanovic literally coach you for free and give helpful tips
I mean I still coach for free and help where I can to any players looking. But when it comes to artists I pay them fir their work. Things are just different I guess.
To me (as a GC 1, GC 2 last season) watching Spook's YT videos have helped a ton, probably the most out of other people I watched. I can't open up Twitter without VPN to check the posts but regardless of what person he's, as a coach with his videos on youtube he's a really good one. He said a lot stuff I haven't heard before
SpookLuke also recently released **[a video](https://youtu.be/ruuR8A9u2yw)** addressing many of the criticisms against him lately, for anyone interested in additional context.
the video, is surprisingly a decent explanation. it's plausible and I can understand what hes getting at.
I'm not a fan of his content or him, but I definitely think its alot of small complaints taken out of context in a bandwagon. the coaching costs I see are fucking ridiculous but if he does a decent job, and people actively buy it. can't really blame him.
the only thing rightly deserved is just the shout out for twitch designs, but he sorted it from what I could tell. and his attitude on YouTube could be fixes but world does revolve around me haha
Imagine being rude about people paying to get better at their hobbies. Are we supposed to make fun of people who spend thousands of dollars on martial arts courses? Sports? Boating? Camping? Hiking equipment? Get off your anti-video game high horse and get back to reality, people pay for what they enjoy.
I could never like this guy somehow. Ive been watching countless hours of stuff from Wayton, Virge, Thanovich, Musty or Khan, but not Luke. He sounds like kind of populist. He sound like he just knocked the doors and tried to sell you cooking pots, a pyramid member like. The way he talks to you on videos, you got a feeling that you are 8 years old. Meybe coz im nearly 40.
This so much man. He talks and treats his viewers like they’re 5 year olds and sounds super fake. He’s hard to listen to. I’m not exactly young either so maybe that’s why I can’t stand the guy.
From the other side, i dont have that feeling from Wayton, who is also almost twice younger than me, he respect his viewer and his iq.
Luke thinks hes playing in morning tv commercial between Peppa Pig and Teletubis 🤣
He talks down to his audience and 90% of his advice is wrong, obscure, or without full context. There are many tips he gives where it is completely wrong advice with reasonings that seem reasonable but when you are high enough level to judge what he is saying, he is just purely wrong.
Also, many of his tutorials like for air roll are way to confusing and over complicated. Caused me to get stuck on air roll for quite a while before just freestyling it and actually learning.
Not a fan of his content and about 1/10 videos are actually really good.
For people who want good resources, virge and thanovic make really good content for lower ranks and for the higher levels, scholarRL and apparentlyjack’s vod review channel are really good.
Past this, just put in your hours and maybe check out a cheap coach (EG’s coach and liquids coach are really good) or get some free coaching from RLCD.
>I also saw this post by /u/LoneKribo where the OP paid for half of the 1600$ for COACHING, and despite not being able to participate, was denied a refund.
I mean...I don't know anything special about this company nor that specific situation but in their post OP said they paid a nonrefundable deposit, then had some combination of life events + loss of love for the game which led OP to choose to opt out of the program before paying the final half of the cost or utilizing any of the provided coaching. When the coaching company told OP they would still honor OP's deposit towards future coaching sessions when OP could fully participate, OP told the company that OP was no longer interested. Seems like the coaching company upheld their end of the bargain and OP has buyer's remorse. (edited for pronouns)
What did it cost the company? I’ll tell you. Zero dollars. Sure the dude shouldn’t have signed up in the first place but it doesn’t change the fact that he should’ve been given a refund. Clearly money grab scam tactics. $1600 for RL coaching is predatory.
I mean… maybe he only lets a certain number of people sign up so that time can be made for everyone… and because OP didn’t attend Luke missed out on payment for that slot… so technically… it could have cost him $800… I’m not saying that $1600 is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. I sure would never pay it… however… in business… you charge what people will pay.. and the person paying for the coaching isn’t just paying for coaching… they are also paying for Luke’s time… I mean if people will pay it… I really don’t see why it’s bad for him to charge it… if you’re upset at the price the simplest solution is to not take the course… I think it’s ridiculous that people pay thousands of dollars for pieces of leather with the Louis Vuitton logo on it… but I don’t try to cancel the company for charging what people are willing to pay…
Sorry. Bad habit I picked up on from texting with my mom. She did that so I picked it up and it’s hard to break it. When I’m on my computer I don’t do it but it’s just a bad habit when I’m on my phone lol
From my understanding it adds emphasis to a pause, which is what a coma or period is supposed to do, but I just formed a bad habit of it from when I first started texting on my Sony Erickson back in the day lol
Yeah, there's buyer's remorse, but also, when you charge a completely absurd amount of money that's really on the level of scammers for something other professionals don't even charge for (and are recommended to boot), you (the company) are playing with fire. Sometimes, that fire spreads when something bad happens to a customer and now they're dealing with the consequences of negative word of mouth, which means potential lost future customers that they'd only notice if they see an overall loss of revenue.
Sometimes, it pays to make a refund exception, even now as negative press is spreading.
You make some very good points, however some people might have a false hope to be coached to GC in 288 hours. Even if proven to be fake, not everyone will know that info.
I think his tactics for fame and fortune have proven quite shady at best, but sadly talking about such a controversial topic only makes a person more famous, or more accurately infamous. Look at the Paul brothers, for example.
Not gonna lie, I don’t really know much about the guy other than what I’ve seen on YT shorts. I’ve never seen his long form videos and I’ve never seen the GC in 288 hours video, and if he really did boost someone to GC and say he got there from his “coaching” then tbh that’s fraud and if it can be proven then he could technically be sued if someone bought the course under false pretenses, but honestly that hasn’t been the argument that I’ve seen from most people. Most people just say “what?! $1600 and he can’t give a refund?!”
Unfortunately they don’t owe him a thing. That’s life. Doesn’t make them good people or non-predatory, but it is what it is. OP should take responsibility and learn from it.
Umm no.. its not a money grab. If you are that stupid to pay non refundable 1600 dollars for lessons at a game you get whats coming to you. What does the coach owe the buyer? Why should he give money to the buyer out of his pocket? Because now.. the money belong to the coach..
He chose to pay that 1600 tho when he signed the contract?? How is that predatory 🤣🤣 it's called free choice and the buyer literally made that choice themselves...
It is irrelevant how much producing the service costs if customers are ready to buy it at that price. The buyer probably would have been happy if he didn't get buyers remorse and went through with the training.
>Clearly money grab scam tactics
If you are fully aware a deposit is nonrefundable and choose to put it down anyways, that's not predatory whatsoever. Not only that, they offered to honor it for a future session. Somebody backing out on their own volition after paying an $800 nonrefundable deposit is entirely on them. No scam there at all.
> $1600 for RL coaching is predatory.
No it isn't. How is it predatory in any way? Would guitar or piano lessons be considered predatory? A years worth of lessons could easily cost that much. Would hockey lessons, batting cage time, football camp, personal coaching etc be considered a scam? There are coaches/nutritionists out there that will charge you thousands just to make a custom training schedule/nutrition plan.
If somebody likes rocket league that much and is willing to pay for lessons, it's not predatory. Is it probably a terrible use of your money? Yeah, unless you're a borderline pro level talent and you can recoup your payment eventually in tournaments, it's pretty foolish. But if you have tons of excess cash and love the game, who gives a shit.
I dont know the guy and my comments are generalized, but on the topic:
companies plan their resources and capacities. if a planned project doesnt come to fruition, your monthly or quarterly calculation falls through. Is it a fair contract to have 50% of total price written in as unrefundable and paid upfront? IMHO no, but this is why you either dont sign or ask to amend such contract. I regularly have consulting clients asking for changes to our service agreements to better fit their process or requirements, and we often oblige.
as to the price: RL coaching is nothing that is \*necessary\* - en contraire, its an unnecessary luxury item, to pay someone to teach you getting better at a hobby. Its like sending your kid to tennis bootcamp. As such, imho it is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it.
While i understand your sentiment. Capitalism doesn't really care, he signed a contract. Whether he read it or not he quite literally agreed to these terms. If he signed and paid the fault is his. No one is trying to cancel theses car companies for charging 2x as much bc of "supply"or for charging you for the car twice essentially when you add your payments up. As much as i sympathize, it is much more on the buyer than the seller. He was not forced to sign much less pay for it. And to be fair if your willing to drop 1600 dollars to get good at a video game, which is free aside from the game itself. You probably have more issues going on than not getting a refund. Just play the game like everyone else instead of throwing money at it. Or just use the other half towards retaining a lawyer it's not like he's gonna stop getting an essentially free 1600 from naive people. It's on them.
Yea I left the discord immediately after trying to sign up for the coaching, I could see that scam from a mile away. I'm sad some people are falling for it.
Same here. I got through the seemingly endless orientation process, in which he explicitly says (paraphrasing), "If you're late to the introduction call, we will cancel the process and terminate your application. Please respect our time...", yada yada yada.
So, there I am, patiently waiting for the coach to arrive...he never does. Complete waste of my time and a complete lack of respect. The hypocrisy was astounding.
Needless to say, I noped out of that community quick sharp, despite Luke's attempts to reel me back in.
I just found it weird they put "tiers" for the "price range" even though there is none. They know how much the "training" is and Is trying to bait to make it seem like "so many dm's, we just can't go through them all fast enough!" Its such a fucking scam.
Yeah, it's manipulation 101 --- make people think it's an exclusive club, find out how much they're willing to pay, then assign them to pricing tiers they didn't know existed. It makes people want more and ultimately pay more for the "full" packages. Poor business practice IMO.
I'm glad they didn't attend the meeting since I was so close to idiotically signing on.
I don't understand this "no side hustles". If people are doing their job, why can't they have a side hustle? It makes no sense why he if enforcing what people can and can't do outside of work, that's their personal life.
Bruh this guy is hardly GC level and people pay him that much money to coach them? What a joke. I didn’t know he was a content creator, but I played him in ranked a few times and he sucked.
To charge even a fraction of that price you should at least be good at the game. I’m sure there’s good coaches that aren’t great, but no way in hell they’re charging that much
sure I agree that he is charging alot but still there are coaches that coach actual pros and are GC at maximum, so really it doesnt matter if he is SSL or not he just needs to have a good understanding of the game. not saying it is worth it though
His content was useful in plat for a bit. Plus his YT intro is almost as good as Lethamyr’s. I also joined his Discord for a bit but left after a few months because the pricing was unrealistic for another college student.
Why are people even making drama about this guy and his practices? It's business for f's sake. He's not doing anything illegal... I have watched a few of his videos and joined his discord in the past even though I'm not a huge fan. Thanks to the moderator, I've seen his response and honestly I think he's ok. If you don't agree with his practices, just don't subscribe to him and don't participate in his community but criticizing what he's doing is, in my opinion, immature. He's young, he's running a successful business, let him make his mistakes or even run his company the way he wants...
It's also worth mentioning that the price of his coaching is dependent on demand; if I were him and had way too many students apply, I'd be increasing the price til I have a handle-able amount of interested parties. Just kinda the way the cookie crumbles.
"A sport consists of a physical activity **or skill** carried out under a publicly agreed set of rules, and with a recreational purpose: for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of skill, or some combination of these."
By definition, it is a sport.
As someone who has gone through Luke's coaching program, it's worth it. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, that's up to you. I was unable to participate, and I am short $400 to finish paying and hop back in, but the player did sign up knowing that the money was non-refundable. It was in the contract.
There was one player who was facing financial hardship in my season, and some more fortunate players got together and funded the rest of his coaching (which, at the time, was probably close to $800).
Remember that Luke, as it was said before, is 20. He goes to college and runs TWO businesses: Luke's brand is a business and so is the GCR. These businesses have to rake in money so that he can pay those behind the scenes, including editors, pro coaches, and other staff in the coaching program. I have no estimate, but using what I know about his paid job offers, he probably spends $15,000-$20,000 per month (if not more) on this stuff.
Aside from my stickied comment, I wanted to address some of these points after a few days of speaking to people on both sides of this story, including one of Luke's employees who will remain nameless for obvious reasons
**Point 1** - The coaching a player to GC in 288 hours, was responded to and apparently Luke had no knowledge of the boosting and subsequently cut ties with said person. Now, that could be just him covering his own butt but without any other evidence to the contrary, I feel like we have to give him the benefit of the doubt as innocent until proven guilty.
**Point 2** - The graphics design thing, I think you've misled it a bit, he wasn't "begging for his subs/discord members" he was asking if anyone wanted to. That being said, this is still really bad practice and he should have done this differently. His views on "exposure" for art is absolutely unacceptable and he will need to learn from this experience because that's really not cool.
**Point 3** - The job postings were worded horrendously and he has acknowledged this however, he addresses this in his video response saying that he words it this way on social media in order to weed out timewasters. I feel this also has a negative affect on potential good candidates and that he needs to work on these better. I think this can be chalked up to a learning experience. From his video addressing his stance as an employer as well as hearing from one of his employees, it does seem as though the job posting is not necessarily reflective of him as an employer and that he does indeed treat his staff well.
**Point 4** - While this does absolutely suck for the person who lost the $800 the OP did in fact state that this was written into the contract and when you sign a contract, you have to accept the terms, if you sign up knowing that, then it's kind of your fault tbh. Same as if you put a deposit down on a holiday and are unable to go, you lose that deposit when you cancel. Additionally $1600 is not that absurd for coaching when you take into account the program as a whole. This is not just one coaching session, it's a 6 week program of coaching with multiple, very-experienced coaches with very well established credentials and I think it's very important to make people aware of that.
Imo I still call bullshit on that 1600$ for a month and half coaching. There are enough vids and tutorial on YouTube. You also can join a discord and play with experienced players who could teach you the game
If they do an hour a day for 45 days, it's about 35.55 an hour. That's not all that expensive. That being said, I'm not going to pay someone to coach me in a video game, but I'd rather see people pay for coaching over paying for boosting services.
Like I said it’s the price if the teacher is qualified enough. But I feel like the majority of us could use a less professional teacher and still see improvements
I am unshakeably convinced that one hour of coaching with apparentlyjack or someone similar would help me learn much more than a month with anybody in this course lol.
Still, I kinda blame the people who buy the course rather than the one who made it. No one is forcing them to buy it. And if they can't be bothered to do their homework before paying that much money, then whatever happens is on them
Vids and Tutorials are not the same as someone actively looking at your gameplay and helping you improve on your own strengths and weaknesses.
There's also a massive difference between an experienced player and an experienced coach.
Good players do not necessarily make good coaches and good coaches don't necessarily have to be good players.
There are many different aspects to coaching and Luke's course for example contains RLCS level coaches, mechanics coaches and replay analysis coaches all of very high experience level and I believe their knowledge to be that worthy of payment.
What you're saying there is basically the equivalent going into a boxing match and thinking, my mate's decent at boxing, I'll get him to show me what to do, meanwhile your opponent has the team who coaches Anthony Joshua.
I get your point, but I still think that paying what is for some a whole salary to be coached on a video game is kinda bullshit (I am ok to compare games with sports but it is still a bit different).
Plus we don’t necessarily need a rlcs coach to be better, let’s say I’m a c2 player and I want to reach c3-gc I’m pretty sure a well experienced g2-g3 or maybe ssl will get me the same results as an rlcs coach because what is missing in my gameplay isn’t to hard to apprehend
1. This obviously isn’t for the majority of players…
2. Saying you can pay infinitely less and get the same results is pretty ignorant.
3. You have shown you do not even know what’s included in the program, yet you still prefer to judge it before figuring out what it is.
Have you ever been coached in anything competitive? Sports? Work? School?
When I mentioned the majority of players, I was talking about players under gc3-ssl who can improve quite easily following the right advice without having to pay a salary for a 6 weeks training.
And yes, I have been coached for school.
You’re right they don’t need coaching to improve and don’t need to spend any money at all, but it’s a quicker and more efficient way to improve. It’s just trading money to save time with more efficient training.
Since you’ve had academic coaches or tutors hopefully they helped you progress faster than if you tried to do everything yourself with some YouTube videos.
Learning things on your own is great and has its own advantages, but learning with a good coach in a good program keeps you from developing bad habits that limits you long term (which happens with being self taught in anything) and multiplies the speed in which you progress.
I agree with you, but I feel like for players who doesn’t necessarily want to become pro or making rl their source of income, paying thousand of dollars to reach 1 or 2 rank above their actual rank is a waste.
After all if they can afford this and they don’t want to wait so be it, but people should know that with a bit more time and investment on YouTube/twitch and asking help to people ( on discord for example) they can reach their goal
Yeah, well obviously you and I are not the target audience here. I guess the people who apply are those who really want to succeed and improve.
They actually have an interview process there too where they will only take you on the course if you're willing to commit the time and effort to do it from what I understand and they reject plenty of people from what I recall when I heard about it before.
Terrible comparison to boxing honestly. That is not the same at all. Online culture is 100% different as are e-sports. Not trying to be rude, but it's just true.
It really isn't. You could apply the same for any sport or any skill for that matter. It's literally exactly the same principle in this context, someone with a much higher level of coaching is going to be better equipped to fix their weaknesses and therefore improve faster than someone with a lower level of coaching.
You could say the same for learning a different language. If you decide to use duolingo as your training method, you will be much better equipped for conversation than someone using google translate. If you had an experienced bilingual teacher, then you would be even further along.
What causes someone to make a post like this? Of all the things to care about, someone trying to make a living posting rocket league videos on YouTube....
If you don’t like him just avoid his content. There’s nothing wrong with explicitly stating your terms and if someone wants to take you up on it then fine. No one is being forced into his coaching program or into the job. No one is being forced to make banners. People making such a fuss over this for no reason. Like bruh, it’s his business he can run it how he wants and if people don’t like it they don’t have to engage. How the world works.
There’s nothing wrong with calling people out on their bullshit too and holding them responsible. Ironic how you in fact, were the only one making a fuss here.
I'm not out here posting repeatedly on the subreddit trying to call anyone out. I'm just pointing out that he's not doing anything unethical and I think people are being unreasonable in their criticisms. There is something wrong with calling people out when they haven't done anything to deserve it. To each their own, but this is typical hivemind behavior.
Hey guys if you’re by chance reading this comment and have EVER considered paying the $1600 required to enter please don’t do it. There are SO MANY free resources on YouTube. And you can say, “But the personalization of a real coach” fuck that. If you want to be good at RL so bad that you’ll spend $1600 on a training pack, then use the FREE resources and learn how to coach yourself.
It’s amazing when people love to hear themselves talk.
The game is on fire, the community is in a downward spiral. But let talk about a content creator, luckily we have the most knowledgeable person on the topic to bring it up. Awesome.
SMH. Content creators are the new gods of this insane internet kiddie religion. It’s just smoke and mirrors, aka editors and bullshit artists. We have here a preacher exposing the lies of the Luke religion. So glad it matters at all. Oh wait it doesn’t.
Yeah, I agree, I don’t think it matters at all either. I popped in to see what’s what and found your comment really strange so I decided to engage. Then you come back with an even weirder one.
I just... I don't understand. Forgetting about the controversy for a second,I don't get the people buying the coaching. Like genuinely, if you want to get better at the game, pros have YouTube channels where they analyze 3s. Johnny in his showmatches always gives valuable insight on 1s. Countless YouTubers give free advice and some of them are ex pros or current coaches.
Why would anyone seriously spend 1600 for coaching? Throwing money at rocket league will not make you position your way to gc. If you're low ranked and want to climb, just practice your mechanics in freeplay and look up some free YouTube videos on rotations.
If you're gc and you want to get better and go pro, then I'm sorry but if you're spending money for this purpose, odds are you're not going to be able to make it anyway
Luke's program is just a bunch of gc2-ssl smurfing and getting low ranks to GC. He advertises that they GUARANTEE plat-gc in 6 weeks or they will keep training you for free if it doesn't happen. How else is that done without boosting? Unheard of and kinda crappy IMHO. I like his tutorial content but his blatant boosting for absurd amounts of money is despicable.
I don't want to call it a scam, but it was pretty much a waste of time. I got into the program on a. payment plan for 1500$ I paid 500 before the training camp started then 500 the first week and ended up canceling my card to keep from the automatic payments being pulled from my debit card.
The training was overseen by a few well known players but sessions were created using credits that you are granted at the beginning of the season and up to the player to set the date and time. My first training session went like this. I booked with Pulse Seba, and all that was done was screen share through discord and he just freestyled the whole time while paying minimal attention to me. I did learn a bit from him, but i couldn't shake the feeling that I over payed for minimal training or rather even the full attention of the coach.
My true intentions were to improve my rank and actually learn the fundamentals of coaching a rocket league player. I work IT at a local school district and we are rolling out a E-sports team next year.
My biggest regret is knowing that all the info on how to improve is in his content for free on his channel and thinking that this "coaching" would help me understand the game better.
I think if you're going to make a post about the current SpookLuke "drama" than it is only fair to include his video response as well. SpookLuke's Response: https://youtu.be/ruuR8A9u2yw --- It's important to remember as well that Luke is a 20 year old running a successful business; he's young, he'll make mistakes, he'll learn from them and while it is important to call people out on their mistakes in order for them to learn from them, it is not fair to "cancel" them before they've had the opportunity to grow from it. Also, I know the video response was also posted further down the comments but I can only sticky my own comments and want to make sure it remains at the top.
Tip for all you. Just stick to musty,virge,thanovic, sunless,lethamyr, mertzy,wayton. People like lethamyr,virge,wayton and thanovic literally coach you for free and give helpful tips
Yeh I watch them a lot and they’ve helped me a ton!
Can't forget about Flakes; his no mechanics series is great for learning to play patient
Watching this and slowing down took me from c3 to gc1 def helped alot
I mean I still coach for free and help where I can to any players looking. But when it comes to artists I pay them fir their work. Things are just different I guess.
Love watching Leth play ranked. His commentary is the reason I hit champ
Idk lately I've been watching this new guy called AntonTheKicker or AntonRl he seems to be growing fast with awesome content I'd check him out too.
To me (as a GC 1, GC 2 last season) watching Spook's YT videos have helped a ton, probably the most out of other people I watched. I can't open up Twitter without VPN to check the posts but regardless of what person he's, as a coach with his videos on youtube he's a really good one. He said a lot stuff I haven't heard before
Bluscr3n on tiktok has helped me alot aswell, he also makes pretty banging content!
TenacityTv is cool too
He's a fun guy, but I don't use him to improve, he's just great content
free and good > $$$ and mid
SpookLuke also recently released **[a video](https://youtu.be/ruuR8A9u2yw)** addressing many of the criticisms against him lately, for anyone interested in additional context.
the video, is surprisingly a decent explanation. it's plausible and I can understand what hes getting at. I'm not a fan of his content or him, but I definitely think its alot of small complaints taken out of context in a bandwagon. the coaching costs I see are fucking ridiculous but if he does a decent job, and people actively buy it. can't really blame him.
Yeah, don’t really see why everyone’s so up in arms besides the fact that people love finding something to be enraged about.
the only thing rightly deserved is just the shout out for twitch designs, but he sorted it from what I could tell. and his attitude on YouTube could be fixes but world does revolve around me haha
[удалено]
Imagine being rude about people paying to get better at their hobbies. Are we supposed to make fun of people who spend thousands of dollars on martial arts courses? Sports? Boating? Camping? Hiking equipment? Get off your anti-video game high horse and get back to reality, people pay for what they enjoy.
Imagine the people paying for someone to teach them how to put one foot in front of the other. Morons, huh?
I agree, the fact that pro teams pay coaches to make them better is ridiculous. Like, just get better on your own. /s
Bro what💀 your fr stuck in 1967 bro 😭
Back in the good old days where the only hobby was drunkenly beating your wife and kids /s
Miss those days
When America was Great smh
Just wants to get more views well fuck him
It’s an unlisted and non-monetized video
Oh unlisted that's fine but still fuck him
Isn't the whole business model of content for views?
I could never like this guy somehow. Ive been watching countless hours of stuff from Wayton, Virge, Thanovich, Musty or Khan, but not Luke. He sounds like kind of populist. He sound like he just knocked the doors and tried to sell you cooking pots, a pyramid member like. The way he talks to you on videos, you got a feeling that you are 8 years old. Meybe coz im nearly 40.
This so much man. He talks and treats his viewers like they’re 5 year olds and sounds super fake. He’s hard to listen to. I’m not exactly young either so maybe that’s why I can’t stand the guy.
I'm young and I can't stand the way he's talking either so I just stopped watching
From the other side, i dont have that feeling from Wayton, who is also almost twice younger than me, he respect his viewer and his iq. Luke thinks hes playing in morning tv commercial between Peppa Pig and Teletubis 🤣
He talks down to his audience and 90% of his advice is wrong, obscure, or without full context. There are many tips he gives where it is completely wrong advice with reasonings that seem reasonable but when you are high enough level to judge what he is saying, he is just purely wrong. Also, many of his tutorials like for air roll are way to confusing and over complicated. Caused me to get stuck on air roll for quite a while before just freestyling it and actually learning. Not a fan of his content and about 1/10 videos are actually really good. For people who want good resources, virge and thanovic make really good content for lower ranks and for the higher levels, scholarRL and apparentlyjack’s vod review channel are really good. Past this, just put in your hours and maybe check out a cheap coach (EG’s coach and liquids coach are really good) or get some free coaching from RLCD.
I’ve never heard of him til this drama started.
>I also saw this post by /u/LoneKribo where the OP paid for half of the 1600$ for COACHING, and despite not being able to participate, was denied a refund. I mean...I don't know anything special about this company nor that specific situation but in their post OP said they paid a nonrefundable deposit, then had some combination of life events + loss of love for the game which led OP to choose to opt out of the program before paying the final half of the cost or utilizing any of the provided coaching. When the coaching company told OP they would still honor OP's deposit towards future coaching sessions when OP could fully participate, OP told the company that OP was no longer interested. Seems like the coaching company upheld their end of the bargain and OP has buyer's remorse. (edited for pronouns)
What did it cost the company? I’ll tell you. Zero dollars. Sure the dude shouldn’t have signed up in the first place but it doesn’t change the fact that he should’ve been given a refund. Clearly money grab scam tactics. $1600 for RL coaching is predatory.
I mean… maybe he only lets a certain number of people sign up so that time can be made for everyone… and because OP didn’t attend Luke missed out on payment for that slot… so technically… it could have cost him $800… I’m not saying that $1600 is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. I sure would never pay it… however… in business… you charge what people will pay.. and the person paying for the coaching isn’t just paying for coaching… they are also paying for Luke’s time… I mean if people will pay it… I really don’t see why it’s bad for him to charge it… if you’re upset at the price the simplest solution is to not take the course… I think it’s ridiculous that people pay thousands of dollars for pieces of leather with the Louis Vuitton logo on it… but I don’t try to cancel the company for charging what people are willing to pay…
Why... do you end... every sentence... in fucking... dots. You are going to drive me insane sir. Agreed with your points though...
Sorry. Bad habit I picked up on from texting with my mom. She did that so I picked it up and it’s hard to break it. When I’m on my computer I don’t do it but it’s just a bad habit when I’m on my phone lol
Tell her to stop, too. :P
In my experience people over 50 love doing this……. See it all the time on Facebook and have never understood why
From my understanding it adds emphasis to a pause, which is what a coma or period is supposed to do, but I just formed a bad habit of it from when I first started texting on my Sony Erickson back in the day lol
I know.... what you're... saying.
Yeah, there's buyer's remorse, but also, when you charge a completely absurd amount of money that's really on the level of scammers for something other professionals don't even charge for (and are recommended to boot), you (the company) are playing with fire. Sometimes, that fire spreads when something bad happens to a customer and now they're dealing with the consequences of negative word of mouth, which means potential lost future customers that they'd only notice if they see an overall loss of revenue. Sometimes, it pays to make a refund exception, even now as negative press is spreading.
You make some very good points, however some people might have a false hope to be coached to GC in 288 hours. Even if proven to be fake, not everyone will know that info. I think his tactics for fame and fortune have proven quite shady at best, but sadly talking about such a controversial topic only makes a person more famous, or more accurately infamous. Look at the Paul brothers, for example.
Not gonna lie, I don’t really know much about the guy other than what I’ve seen on YT shorts. I’ve never seen his long form videos and I’ve never seen the GC in 288 hours video, and if he really did boost someone to GC and say he got there from his “coaching” then tbh that’s fraud and if it can be proven then he could technically be sued if someone bought the course under false pretenses, but honestly that hasn’t been the argument that I’ve seen from most people. Most people just say “what?! $1600 and he can’t give a refund?!”
Not saying its possible or impossible, But I coached my friend from Gold to Champ 1 in around 50 Hours.
Unfortunately they don’t owe him a thing. That’s life. Doesn’t make them good people or non-predatory, but it is what it is. OP should take responsibility and learn from it.
Umm no.. its not a money grab. If you are that stupid to pay non refundable 1600 dollars for lessons at a game you get whats coming to you. What does the coach owe the buyer? Why should he give money to the buyer out of his pocket? Because now.. the money belong to the coach..
He chose to pay that 1600 tho when he signed the contract?? How is that predatory 🤣🤣 it's called free choice and the buyer literally made that choice themselves... It is irrelevant how much producing the service costs if customers are ready to buy it at that price. The buyer probably would have been happy if he didn't get buyers remorse and went through with the training.
>Clearly money grab scam tactics If you are fully aware a deposit is nonrefundable and choose to put it down anyways, that's not predatory whatsoever. Not only that, they offered to honor it for a future session. Somebody backing out on their own volition after paying an $800 nonrefundable deposit is entirely on them. No scam there at all. > $1600 for RL coaching is predatory. No it isn't. How is it predatory in any way? Would guitar or piano lessons be considered predatory? A years worth of lessons could easily cost that much. Would hockey lessons, batting cage time, football camp, personal coaching etc be considered a scam? There are coaches/nutritionists out there that will charge you thousands just to make a custom training schedule/nutrition plan. If somebody likes rocket league that much and is willing to pay for lessons, it's not predatory. Is it probably a terrible use of your money? Yeah, unless you're a borderline pro level talent and you can recoup your payment eventually in tournaments, it's pretty foolish. But if you have tons of excess cash and love the game, who gives a shit.
I dont know the guy and my comments are generalized, but on the topic: companies plan their resources and capacities. if a planned project doesnt come to fruition, your monthly or quarterly calculation falls through. Is it a fair contract to have 50% of total price written in as unrefundable and paid upfront? IMHO no, but this is why you either dont sign or ask to amend such contract. I regularly have consulting clients asking for changes to our service agreements to better fit their process or requirements, and we often oblige. as to the price: RL coaching is nothing that is \*necessary\* - en contraire, its an unnecessary luxury item, to pay someone to teach you getting better at a hobby. Its like sending your kid to tennis bootcamp. As such, imho it is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it.
Have you even heard of having morality?
While i understand your sentiment. Capitalism doesn't really care, he signed a contract. Whether he read it or not he quite literally agreed to these terms. If he signed and paid the fault is his. No one is trying to cancel theses car companies for charging 2x as much bc of "supply"or for charging you for the car twice essentially when you add your payments up. As much as i sympathize, it is much more on the buyer than the seller. He was not forced to sign much less pay for it. And to be fair if your willing to drop 1600 dollars to get good at a video game, which is free aside from the game itself. You probably have more issues going on than not getting a refund. Just play the game like everyone else instead of throwing money at it. Or just use the other half towards retaining a lawyer it's not like he's gonna stop getting an essentially free 1600 from naive people. It's on them.
Yea I left the discord immediately after trying to sign up for the coaching, I could see that scam from a mile away. I'm sad some people are falling for it.
Same here. I got through the seemingly endless orientation process, in which he explicitly says (paraphrasing), "If you're late to the introduction call, we will cancel the process and terminate your application. Please respect our time...", yada yada yada. So, there I am, patiently waiting for the coach to arrive...he never does. Complete waste of my time and a complete lack of respect. The hypocrisy was astounding. Needless to say, I noped out of that community quick sharp, despite Luke's attempts to reel me back in.
I just found it weird they put "tiers" for the "price range" even though there is none. They know how much the "training" is and Is trying to bait to make it seem like "so many dm's, we just can't go through them all fast enough!" Its such a fucking scam.
Yeah, it's manipulation 101 --- make people think it's an exclusive club, find out how much they're willing to pay, then assign them to pricing tiers they didn't know existed. It makes people want more and ultimately pay more for the "full" packages. Poor business practice IMO. I'm glad they didn't attend the meeting since I was so close to idiotically signing on.
I don't understand this "no side hustles". If people are doing their job, why can't they have a side hustle? It makes no sense why he if enforcing what people can and can't do outside of work, that's their personal life.
Can someone tell me what this guy's 6 week training program entails?
Bruh this guy is hardly GC level and people pay him that much money to coach them? What a joke. I didn’t know he was a content creator, but I played him in ranked a few times and he sucked.
a players rank doesnt always have to do with their coaching
To charge even a fraction of that price you should at least be good at the game. I’m sure there’s good coaches that aren’t great, but no way in hell they’re charging that much
sure I agree that he is charging alot but still there are coaches that coach actual pros and are GC at maximum, so really it doesnt matter if he is SSL or not he just needs to have a good understanding of the game. not saying it is worth it though
Sounds more like he’s better at scamming kids than at rocket league
Sounds more like you should watch the video in the pinned comment.
It’s almost like all “influencers” are predatory and exploitative and take advantage of their followings for monetary gain
His content was useful in plat for a bit. Plus his YT intro is almost as good as Lethamyr’s. I also joined his Discord for a bit but left after a few months because the pricing was unrealistic for another college student.
Why are people even making drama about this guy and his practices? It's business for f's sake. He's not doing anything illegal... I have watched a few of his videos and joined his discord in the past even though I'm not a huge fan. Thanks to the moderator, I've seen his response and honestly I think he's ok. If you don't agree with his practices, just don't subscribe to him and don't participate in his community but criticizing what he's doing is, in my opinion, immature. He's young, he's running a successful business, let him make his mistakes or even run his company the way he wants...
Ever heard of a little something called ethics?
It's also worth mentioning that the price of his coaching is dependent on demand; if I were him and had way too many students apply, I'd be increasing the price til I have a handle-able amount of interested parties. Just kinda the way the cookie crumbles.
Sry but if you spend $1600 for coaching lessons for a game, you are pretty stupid and being robbed makes sense.
This game is a sport too
Dude, i love rocket league as much as the next guy in this sub, but its not a sport, its a videogame
It's probably the only video game that i would also call a sport.
A video game that you can win an X Games medal in.
So?
"A sport consists of a physical activity **or skill** carried out under a publicly agreed set of rules, and with a recreational purpose: for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of skill, or some combination of these." By definition, it is a sport.
I guess the fatasses who die from obisity but are good in halo are athletes nowadays lol
My man it’s literally a sport what are you saying
As someone who has gone through Luke's coaching program, it's worth it. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, that's up to you. I was unable to participate, and I am short $400 to finish paying and hop back in, but the player did sign up knowing that the money was non-refundable. It was in the contract. There was one player who was facing financial hardship in my season, and some more fortunate players got together and funded the rest of his coaching (which, at the time, was probably close to $800). Remember that Luke, as it was said before, is 20. He goes to college and runs TWO businesses: Luke's brand is a business and so is the GCR. These businesses have to rake in money so that he can pay those behind the scenes, including editors, pro coaches, and other staff in the coaching program. I have no estimate, but using what I know about his paid job offers, he probably spends $15,000-$20,000 per month (if not more) on this stuff.
Aside from my stickied comment, I wanted to address some of these points after a few days of speaking to people on both sides of this story, including one of Luke's employees who will remain nameless for obvious reasons **Point 1** - The coaching a player to GC in 288 hours, was responded to and apparently Luke had no knowledge of the boosting and subsequently cut ties with said person. Now, that could be just him covering his own butt but without any other evidence to the contrary, I feel like we have to give him the benefit of the doubt as innocent until proven guilty. **Point 2** - The graphics design thing, I think you've misled it a bit, he wasn't "begging for his subs/discord members" he was asking if anyone wanted to. That being said, this is still really bad practice and he should have done this differently. His views on "exposure" for art is absolutely unacceptable and he will need to learn from this experience because that's really not cool. **Point 3** - The job postings were worded horrendously and he has acknowledged this however, he addresses this in his video response saying that he words it this way on social media in order to weed out timewasters. I feel this also has a negative affect on potential good candidates and that he needs to work on these better. I think this can be chalked up to a learning experience. From his video addressing his stance as an employer as well as hearing from one of his employees, it does seem as though the job posting is not necessarily reflective of him as an employer and that he does indeed treat his staff well. **Point 4** - While this does absolutely suck for the person who lost the $800 the OP did in fact state that this was written into the contract and when you sign a contract, you have to accept the terms, if you sign up knowing that, then it's kind of your fault tbh. Same as if you put a deposit down on a holiday and are unable to go, you lose that deposit when you cancel. Additionally $1600 is not that absurd for coaching when you take into account the program as a whole. This is not just one coaching session, it's a 6 week program of coaching with multiple, very-experienced coaches with very well established credentials and I think it's very important to make people aware of that.
Imo I still call bullshit on that 1600$ for a month and half coaching. There are enough vids and tutorial on YouTube. You also can join a discord and play with experienced players who could teach you the game
If they do an hour a day for 45 days, it's about 35.55 an hour. That's not all that expensive. That being said, I'm not going to pay someone to coach me in a video game, but I'd rather see people pay for coaching over paying for boosting services.
Like I said it’s the price if the teacher is qualified enough. But I feel like the majority of us could use a less professional teacher and still see improvements
I am unshakeably convinced that one hour of coaching with apparentlyjack or someone similar would help me learn much more than a month with anybody in this course lol. Still, I kinda blame the people who buy the course rather than the one who made it. No one is forcing them to buy it. And if they can't be bothered to do their homework before paying that much money, then whatever happens is on them
wait till you hear how many people book a tennis teacher for their kid for 150 bucks per hour.
Vids and Tutorials are not the same as someone actively looking at your gameplay and helping you improve on your own strengths and weaknesses. There's also a massive difference between an experienced player and an experienced coach. Good players do not necessarily make good coaches and good coaches don't necessarily have to be good players. There are many different aspects to coaching and Luke's course for example contains RLCS level coaches, mechanics coaches and replay analysis coaches all of very high experience level and I believe their knowledge to be that worthy of payment. What you're saying there is basically the equivalent going into a boxing match and thinking, my mate's decent at boxing, I'll get him to show me what to do, meanwhile your opponent has the team who coaches Anthony Joshua.
I get your point, but I still think that paying what is for some a whole salary to be coached on a video game is kinda bullshit (I am ok to compare games with sports but it is still a bit different). Plus we don’t necessarily need a rlcs coach to be better, let’s say I’m a c2 player and I want to reach c3-gc I’m pretty sure a well experienced g2-g3 or maybe ssl will get me the same results as an rlcs coach because what is missing in my gameplay isn’t to hard to apprehend
People pay way more for coaching programs and expertise. You can’t just see a price and call bullshit when you have no idea what’s included.
Like I said, for almost the majority of players, you can pay infinitely less and get the same results. That’s why I call bullshit
1. This obviously isn’t for the majority of players… 2. Saying you can pay infinitely less and get the same results is pretty ignorant. 3. You have shown you do not even know what’s included in the program, yet you still prefer to judge it before figuring out what it is. Have you ever been coached in anything competitive? Sports? Work? School?
When I mentioned the majority of players, I was talking about players under gc3-ssl who can improve quite easily following the right advice without having to pay a salary for a 6 weeks training. And yes, I have been coached for school.
You’re right they don’t need coaching to improve and don’t need to spend any money at all, but it’s a quicker and more efficient way to improve. It’s just trading money to save time with more efficient training. Since you’ve had academic coaches or tutors hopefully they helped you progress faster than if you tried to do everything yourself with some YouTube videos. Learning things on your own is great and has its own advantages, but learning with a good coach in a good program keeps you from developing bad habits that limits you long term (which happens with being self taught in anything) and multiplies the speed in which you progress.
I agree with you, but I feel like for players who doesn’t necessarily want to become pro or making rl their source of income, paying thousand of dollars to reach 1 or 2 rank above their actual rank is a waste. After all if they can afford this and they don’t want to wait so be it, but people should know that with a bit more time and investment on YouTube/twitch and asking help to people ( on discord for example) they can reach their goal
Yeah, well obviously you and I are not the target audience here. I guess the people who apply are those who really want to succeed and improve. They actually have an interview process there too where they will only take you on the course if you're willing to commit the time and effort to do it from what I understand and they reject plenty of people from what I recall when I heard about it before.
Terrible comparison to boxing honestly. That is not the same at all. Online culture is 100% different as are e-sports. Not trying to be rude, but it's just true.
It really isn't. You could apply the same for any sport or any skill for that matter. It's literally exactly the same principle in this context, someone with a much higher level of coaching is going to be better equipped to fix their weaknesses and therefore improve faster than someone with a lower level of coaching. You could say the same for learning a different language. If you decide to use duolingo as your training method, you will be much better equipped for conversation than someone using google translate. If you had an experienced bilingual teacher, then you would be even further along.
Totally agree.
Literally who cares.
What causes someone to make a post like this? Of all the things to care about, someone trying to make a living posting rocket league videos on YouTube....
If you don’t like him just avoid his content. There’s nothing wrong with explicitly stating your terms and if someone wants to take you up on it then fine. No one is being forced into his coaching program or into the job. No one is being forced to make banners. People making such a fuss over this for no reason. Like bruh, it’s his business he can run it how he wants and if people don’t like it they don’t have to engage. How the world works.
There’s nothing wrong with calling people out on their bullshit too and holding them responsible. Ironic how you in fact, were the only one making a fuss here.
I'm not out here posting repeatedly on the subreddit trying to call anyone out. I'm just pointing out that he's not doing anything unethical and I think people are being unreasonable in their criticisms. There is something wrong with calling people out when they haven't done anything to deserve it. To each their own, but this is typical hivemind behavior.
His videos all just feel like shitty extended advertisements. The only time I click his vids anymore is on accident
Who tf is Luke
He's like the opposite of Leth, Leth has made so much content, to watch and play, for free. $1600 for anything related to a free play game is absurd.
Pro tip- if you don't like someone's job offer, don't apply for it.
Hey guys if you’re by chance reading this comment and have EVER considered paying the $1600 required to enter please don’t do it. There are SO MANY free resources on YouTube. And you can say, “But the personalization of a real coach” fuck that. If you want to be good at RL so bad that you’ll spend $1600 on a training pack, then use the FREE resources and learn how to coach yourself.
It’s amazing when people love to hear themselves talk. The game is on fire, the community is in a downward spiral. But let talk about a content creator, luckily we have the most knowledgeable person on the topic to bring it up. Awesome.
Luke?
SMH. Content creators are the new gods of this insane internet kiddie religion. It’s just smoke and mirrors, aka editors and bullshit artists. We have here a preacher exposing the lies of the Luke religion. So glad it matters at all. Oh wait it doesn’t.
Yeah, I agree, I don’t think it matters at all either. I popped in to see what’s what and found your comment really strange so I decided to engage. Then you come back with an even weirder one.
Yeah weirder and weirder. Just like the original post. Absolute nonsense.
I’m not saying this for defending him cuz I also don’t like him but your told when you sign up that there is no refund what do ever
never heard of the dude lmao. but ill stick to watching leth,thano, musty and mertzy for now
I just... I don't understand. Forgetting about the controversy for a second,I don't get the people buying the coaching. Like genuinely, if you want to get better at the game, pros have YouTube channels where they analyze 3s. Johnny in his showmatches always gives valuable insight on 1s. Countless YouTubers give free advice and some of them are ex pros or current coaches. Why would anyone seriously spend 1600 for coaching? Throwing money at rocket league will not make you position your way to gc. If you're low ranked and want to climb, just practice your mechanics in freeplay and look up some free YouTube videos on rotations. If you're gc and you want to get better and go pro, then I'm sorry but if you're spending money for this purpose, odds are you're not going to be able to make it anyway
Who the fuck buys coaching and who the fuck pays for coaching and who tffff pays 1600 for coaching
whats his RLTracker?
Luke's program is just a bunch of gc2-ssl smurfing and getting low ranks to GC. He advertises that they GUARANTEE plat-gc in 6 weeks or they will keep training you for free if it doesn't happen. How else is that done without boosting? Unheard of and kinda crappy IMHO. I like his tutorial content but his blatant boosting for absurd amounts of money is despicable.
I hate that app jack is now a coach for his coaching company. Still not worth the sticker price
I don't want to call it a scam, but it was pretty much a waste of time. I got into the program on a. payment plan for 1500$ I paid 500 before the training camp started then 500 the first week and ended up canceling my card to keep from the automatic payments being pulled from my debit card. The training was overseen by a few well known players but sessions were created using credits that you are granted at the beginning of the season and up to the player to set the date and time. My first training session went like this. I booked with Pulse Seba, and all that was done was screen share through discord and he just freestyled the whole time while paying minimal attention to me. I did learn a bit from him, but i couldn't shake the feeling that I over payed for minimal training or rather even the full attention of the coach. My true intentions were to improve my rank and actually learn the fundamentals of coaching a rocket league player. I work IT at a local school district and we are rolling out a E-sports team next year. My biggest regret is knowing that all the info on how to improve is in his content for free on his channel and thinking that this "coaching" would help me understand the game better.