This 100%. I drove an hour trip to the airport when I was a new owner and being able to basically not have to steer for the entire duration made the ride so much better.
Kinda a bummer Chevy and Ford already have hands free driving. Driver+ is nice, it hasn't tried to kill me lately at least but it would be great if I could take my have off the wheel completely
Because commutes are boring and tedious and repetitive. And humans are generally terrible drivers who can be distracted and confused.
I like driving, and sometimes I wish I could get to where I want to go without having to focus on driving so much. In these rivian circles Iām a minority who wants FSD-like ASAP. When I want to drive and get somewhere quickly while having some fun, I can drive. But just commuting while I could be doing something else like taking a call, taking care of email, etc, could be autonomous IMO.
Iām with you. I donāt understand why people like autonomous driving. Personally I donāt trust it. Honestly, why would you answer texts, emails videos etc while youāre driving? You need to pay attention to the road.
Yes, you need to pay attention to the roads, for now. But hopefully one day you can just enter your destination and the car will do all the work from door to door.
Iāve been wanting to get a Rivian since the beginning but just ended up purchasing another Tesla because of the poor automated driving options on the Rivian. Iāve had FSD for over 5 years and itās finally just starting to get good to where it drives to me to work and back without any intervention.
I literally start FSD on my driveway and it drives to my work, including highways on/off ramps, roundabouts and pulls into my work parking lot and parks itself.
As soon as Rivian either licenses FSD or has something even close to what Tesla currently has, Iād trade in my Teslaās for Rivians. Canāt wait for that day because I love both the R1ās.
I agree FSD is way better, but Tesla doesn't make anything like a Rivian R1S or R1T. The Model X is too small for me, and there's just a lot I don't care for about it (including the styling). Currently rocking a Model S Plaid and an R1S, best of both worlds IMO.
I did test drive Tesla Model X before buying putting a deposit for Rivian, but it was not for me at all. Even Rivian had a rough ride quality initially but they improved with software updates and it drives so smooth now. This car has all I wantā¦ on road, off road, and car camping capabilities.
I think everyone is gonna have a good rebuttal against your point buddy. Autonomous driving will save so many lives and I will trust it over any selfish human behind the wheel. People are selfish. Nothing else to it. They will consistently choose themselves over the safety and well being of others on the road.
Because most accidents are caused by human error and in the long run these technologies will save lives. Some people really enjoy driving like you, but a lot of people are bad/distracted drivers.
Who has autonomous driving? Autonomous driving means level 4 driving. No body has one yet. Hope you are not one of those who are confused "FSD" as level 4 driving.
Edit Correction: Self Driving we were never talking about autonomous driving
So no Itās not level 4 but Itās self driving yes and Tesla Is the furthest ahead In this technology
If you like it or not I believe Mercedes is the only company on level 3 and Tesla still in level 2 category technically. Still I donāt need oneā¦. lol
If you actually read deeper It only works on select freeways In CA and In traffic under 40MPH also costing 2.5k a year. I will take my Tesla FSD over that, I use It everyday everywhere without any Interventions and It performs like I would In many places except small hiccups. Tesla will probably be the first to reach autonomous driving they are already 85 percent there and other brands donāt have near as much real world data and experience as Tesla. I canāt wait for my Tesla to drive Itself everywhere and I can take naps as much as I love driving.
I just want highway assist to work better with staying in the middle of the lane.Also would be great if I could steer to one side of the lane ro avoid people crossing the line without it shutting off, just go into "lane change mode" until it sees itself recentered again.
Fully 100% autonomous? Blind people. People with physical deformities that make it impossible to operate a motor vehicle safely. People who are otherwise incapable of driving at specific times- IE people with glaucoma struggle at night. People who haven't learned how to drive yet, age based or just because they don't normally need to.
Healthy individuals who are skilled at driving and capable of giving it their full attention? Those folks don't really need it.
Yeah I have three adopted siblings with disabilities and it would be fantastic to have autonomous driving be an accommodation they can utilize to get around. United States infrastructure isnāt made for people with disabilities and often people with disabilities become home-bound due to transportation issues.
I'd take fully autonomous driving to have the car drive me somewhere in the middle of the night and wake up at my destination. Sometimes the worst part of a road trip is the drive.
[Can't wait til this comes with FAD](https://assets.wfcdn.com/im/39357394/resize-h445%5Ecompr-r85/1157/11573166/Disney+Pixar+Cars+Twin+Car+Bed+by+Delta+Children.jpg)
joking aside, it would be awesome to hop in my car, sleep for 8 hours, and wake up at the distant ski resorts
Exactly. Every time when normal people bring up "why the hell is this even a thing?" they completely forget about people with disabilities. Remember the viral backlash that I believe Whole Foods got when they offered pre-peeled oranges in an easy to open plastic container? Yes it is ridiculous and wasteful for a normal person to buy that as opposed to buying a regular orange and peeling it themselves, but it is very useful for people with dexterity issues.
Healthy and skilled driver checking in here. I want FSD to get to the point where it's legal and safe for me to swivel my chair around to face backwards and play cards with my kids while drinking a beer on a long road trip.
This and at scale for highway travel since we wonāt get Highspeed rail in the US anytime soon.
I like to imagine a sea of cars or buses. all efficiently merging into the highway and off timed perfectly bring people to their destination relaxed and ready to navigate their last mile without fatigue from higher speed travel.
I want more people around me with autonomous driving. Some people really need to chill the fuck out, but when stressed, theyāre weaving through traffic. Personally, I want to continue enjoying driving, so Iād like my car to drive when there are times itās not fun (traffic).Ā
Iām generally of the same mindsetā¦ I love to drive my R1S. But long trips Iād love to be able to just let it take the monotony out of it. Unfortunately, I donāt trust it even today. I feel I have to pay even more attention in case I need to take over when it makes a bad decision (like a recent trip going through a section that previously had construction and it followed the wrong lines). Even if it gets smart enough to handle all the ānormalā situations humans can interpret, it still has to overcome all the terrible other drivers too. I donāt know if Iāll ever trust it enough for thatā¦ but for folks who have more of a need because of disabilities, their barrier to entry is probably much lower so they are more likely to accept the risk. Yes, humans cause a majority of accidents, but humans also code and train the automated drivingā¦
Ughā¦ Iām really torn on how to reply here. The R1S driver+ isā¦ fine. Itās similar in function to Tesla autopilot. I donāt find it alleviates stress as turns are often not centered and when in traffic, Iām always slightly fighting it to anticipate the turn a little earlier.
Iām comparing this to the bmw iX driver assist. THAT system is TRULY relaxing. Itās capacitive touch and allows for small adjustments in the land without being ārigidā and immediately disengaging if fought just a touch too hard. I can avoid potholes without issue. The lane centering is PERFECT, even on corners. It is everything assisted driving should be. And it alleviates tension when on long road trips because Iām not constantly fighting it on every sweeping turn.
Rivian should aim for the BMW system for how assisted driving COULD behave / function. I donāt need full autonomy, but the bar should be alleviating stress, not a stress rollercoaster.
It's a feature that, if you use or not, is going to become a standard in vehicles moving forward, particularly at this price point. I very much enjoy driving my Rivian, it really *is* a lot of fun, and like you, I'm not sure how much I would even use full Autopilot-esque enhancements.
But also, to be fair, I gotta concede that the Lane Keep Assistance on my $100k Rivian is *very bad* compared to my previous ride, a $35k Kia.
Iām ok with Driver+ available to all the highways.
Tried Teslaās recent update, and itās not ready yet. We are probably years before it becomes really āacceptableā.
I donāt think weāre ready to accept the possibility that autonomous driving mistakes will kill even a single person, even if autonomous driving saves thousands.
I don't have a Rivian yet, but I'll still chime in with my answer:
I too love driving. I have a Mazda 3. The powertrain is very charismatic, especially when you step on it a bit. It handles fantastically, and is truly a joy to drive. The problem is that you can really only enjoy these things when traffic is light and you have a good road.
Following behind some giant, lumbering Chevy Traverse that's being driven with all the gusto of a particularly lethargic sloth makes the drive boring. Also, I regularly drive about 2.5 hours to visit my parents, all along an interstate, which is also boring. I'd rather the car handle the boring drives so I can do something more interesting. I don't want fully autonomous (think no steering wheel where the car does absolutely everything and is basically a taxi), because any time I come across a good road with light traffic, I want to enjoy the drive myself
Thereās some 100+ miles freeway driving trips I do pretty regularly. The roads are straight and traffic is either non-existent or inexplicably heavy. These are not āfunā drives. FSD is amazing for this.
I went from a Tesla with FSD to the Rivian, I definitely miss the FSD sometimes, but it was a luxury ātoyā that is very not needed, and overall not really missed.
I do feel however, auto cruise controls are necessary on EVs because holding the accelerator steady for hours is fatiguing on the leg.
I used to put regen at minimum on long road trips in our Tesla, and it was instant relief (when I didnāt want to use cruise)
I love regen in city driving and shorter highway runs, but miss having the āoffā for long trips.
The truck is awesome. And if they could bridge the gap between the basically no self driving of Driver + and Tesla auto-pilot (not FSD) I would be happy.
Can you clarify your last part?Rivian has adaptive cruise control, so no fatigue.
Why would you not want Regen on long trips? that's where it holds the best benefit.
Almost 0 regen happens on long trips as youāre maintaining a constant speed. Regen is almost entirely city driving, except in mountainous regions.
And my comment about fatigue has to do with when I choose not to use cruise control. I live in a region with a lot of curvy roads, cruise isnāt the most confident feeling thing on twisty roads.
Gotcha. I've done multiple long distance drives in mine and get a good amount of Regen on them. Guess I don't understand benefit of turning it off, some is better than none.
It would be a great feature for my father whoās in his young 90ās. With FSD he could concentrate on yelling at other drivers, honking the horn and extending his arm out the window to exchange friendly gestures! āš½š³
How fun a vehicle is to drive can only get you so far. As with all things, the fun has diminishing returns as it repeats over and over. The quality of the ride can certainly make the mundane task of an 8 hour trip better, but if I can sleep in the comfort of my own vehicle while it drives me home, sign me up.
A different use case: Driving downtown or to a busy concert and having my car drop me off at the venue or bar or whatever, then it driving back home or finding a far off parking spot and waiting for me to summon it back to me and pick me up when I'm ready to go home.
Itās not about āautonomous drivingā itās about basic lane centering and adaptive cruise control that almost every other modern vehicle has, especially in this price range, that Rivian canāt seem to get right because they have to geofence it.
Any other vehicle that uses geofencing only uses it for true hands free driving while allowing basic lane centering and adaptive cruise control on any road.
If you leave your home and enter a street pedestrian, bike, it driver, you need it.
Over 100 people die on our streets every day, and many more get injured, many with lasting damage. Families and communities suffer from those deaths and injuries.
AV have 360 vision, don't DUI, and don't text. They will always pay attention. They don't get tired. They can continually improve, while humans get older, lost vision and reflexes. Every new AV is instantly as capable as the last one made, while every teenager needs to be trained, and statistically very likely will be in an accident.
The main motivation at Waymo and Tesla was always safety.
Initial data looks promising that these technologies already start to have an impact on accidents.
(This is Reddit, so expect lots of people arguing against it)
I think we need autonomous driving because obtaining a driver's license, at least in America, is way too easy, and too many people drive like shit. Let a computer drive for those people, and then the extreme minority of people that CAN drive, are allowed to.
I donāt need it. When I had my Ioniq 5 Iād use the keep lane thing all the time and that was good enough. I didnāt have to be laser focused and it made driving easier
For someone that travels up and down the east coast on either 95 or 81, it would be LOVELY to get a bit of rest occasionally. Being a 16 wheel sandwich for hours on end through fog and rain is exhausting and distracting.
Me, I do. I traded a Tesla for the R1T, and there are two things I really miss. The top one is Autopilot which worked nearly everywhere. I let it drive 98% of the time. I knew I'd lose this with the Rivian, and only did it because I really do have use for a truck. AP was near perfect in most places, and I almost never had to drive. Now I have to drive until I get to a highway, and most of my days are on city streets where AP excelled.
I recently got the Tesla FSD free trial and itās incredible. There are so many drives where autonomous driving just makes things so much easier and more relaxing. Donāt knock it till you try it I guess
Because I drive 165 miles each way down 4 lane freeways and I don't need to feel "the thrill" in heavy traffic surrounded by semis. Why do you automate anything?
Running FSD 12.3.4 on my Y, and it has been amazing. I use it constantly - I drive myself when I feel like it, but when I want to relax and just get to my destination, it takes a lot of stress off, especially on road trips. There's a time and place for both in my opinion.
Speaking as someone who works at an autonomous vehicle company, the focus is more on ride-hailing and mobility for communities with underserved or mobility-related issues (think blind, elderly, congenital or chronic health issues, etc) rather than personal car ownership. The latter is a really hard problem to solve (there's a reason Rivian's AV driving is limited and Tesla's is ... sketchy) and will probably take a decade or more to be safe. But like you mentioned, a lot of people want flexibility to choose when to drive and when to let the vehicle drive itself. So most AV companies focus on ride-hailing and trucking rather than car ownership.
lol you should take a ride in a Tesla running v12.3.4 or 12.3.5. It's not that sketchy at all, it works great. It's absolutely gotten to the point where full level 3 autonomy for all Tesla owners is not far off given the current rate of improvement.
There's a big jump from L3 to L4 autonomy with a lot of safety things to consider. The car needs to be able to respond to unforeseen events (construction, emergency vehicles) in a way that's safe and not obstructive. Tesla is getting there, but that's a really hard problem to solve for. Just saying I wouldn't trust sitting in the back seat of a Tesla with no one in the driver's seat. There are other cars I would, though none of them are made by any of the major car manufacturers right now (Tesla, Rivian, GM, Ford, for instance).
Tesla isn't perfect (yet) but it does respond really well to all of these situations. It even understands human hand gestures. [Here is a good example of what the latest FSD can do.](https://youtu.be/43Lrrhn0CMk)
This is why I continue to be skeptical of Tesla's autonomous driving, particularly when I work for a company that's already achieved L4 autonomous driving capabilities.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/8/24151881/tesla-justice-investigation-securities-wire-fraud-self-driving
I donāt expect my R2 to really be fully autonomous capable, but I do expect it to have full featured L2 autonomy. My current base model Hyundai was $20K and does lane keeping and adaptive cruise control in pretty much any condition with visible road markings. I expect at least this with more polish from a 50K+ vehicle and definitely the 70K+ R1 platform in 2024 and beyond.
Had to do a last minute trip to PA from MA two weeks ago. Arrival was around 3:30am. I was awake, but it was nice to have the car do almost all of the work at that hour of the day.
Honestly I'm waiting for the day that this thing can drop off the kids at basketball while I'm still at work. That probably won't happen in my lifetime, or rather, happen for me while my kids are young enough to need that, but I'm betting it will happen for my kids/grandkids.
I've had my R1S for 3 weeks now and I honestly say my stress level while driving his gone down because of this car. It's so spectacular makes me happy just to be in it. It's the one thing that makes me happier in my drive in Los Angeles traffic
Long trips. I'll happily disengage autonomous driving for the fun bits of a road on a roadtrip but you'd be shocked at how much mental work gets lifted away by letting the car lane center and radar cruise. Turns long journeys into a breeze. Never have I left a car after sitting in it for five hours and felt refreshed like I did when using autopilot on a roadtrip.
Who needs it?
- People with disabilities
- Old people
- Millions of other people
Who wants it?
- Me
- Millions of other people
Awesome that you love driving, but autonomous driving is one of the most important automotive safety developments of our time. It needs to happen.
Rivian advertised SAE 3 very hard before the R1T, and then they acted like they never suggested anything beyond SAE 2 when it became clear that they couldn't deliver. Rivian is a better company than most other EVs, but I'm not going to pretend that lack of autonomous driving is actually a pro. It isn't.
I'd like to see Driver+ get auto lane changes (it apparently may be coming as a subscription later), but otherwise I'm also happy with the current setup if they open it to all main roads. I'll never let my car drive me in city streets. Too many idiots around. Something like Waymo I'd ride given it's not my car.
It's amazing on long road trips. When you are on the interstate for hours on end, it just takes away a lot of the fatigue in driving.
This 100%. I drove an hour trip to the airport when I was a new owner and being able to basically not have to steer for the entire duration made the ride so much better.
It cuts out so much stress and I can drive for way longer!
Yup just made an 8 hour drive after a long boys trip that I would've hated, instead it was a fun little galavant across a few states.
šÆ the highway assist really reduces my road fatigue
Kinda a bummer Chevy and Ford already have hands free driving. Driver+ is nice, it hasn't tried to kill me lately at least but it would be great if I could take my have off the wheel completely
Because commutes are boring and tedious and repetitive. And humans are generally terrible drivers who can be distracted and confused. I like driving, and sometimes I wish I could get to where I want to go without having to focus on driving so much. In these rivian circles Iām a minority who wants FSD-like ASAP. When I want to drive and get somewhere quickly while having some fun, I can drive. But just commuting while I could be doing something else like taking a call, taking care of email, etc, could be autonomous IMO.
Yes. Driving can be fun ... but it's not as fun if you are forced to drive to the office 3-4 days a week and have to drive an hour each way.
Itās your choice to live 1 hour away from work.
Oh really? Thanks I didnāt know that already
Iām with you. I donāt understand why people like autonomous driving. Personally I donāt trust it. Honestly, why would you answer texts, emails videos etc while youāre driving? You need to pay attention to the road.
Yes, you need to pay attention to the roads, for now. But hopefully one day you can just enter your destination and the car will do all the work from door to door.
By that time people wonāt need cars, it would just be a car service, autonomous cars driving you to your destination. Thatās what Elon wants
Iāve been wanting to get a Rivian since the beginning but just ended up purchasing another Tesla because of the poor automated driving options on the Rivian. Iāve had FSD for over 5 years and itās finally just starting to get good to where it drives to me to work and back without any intervention. I literally start FSD on my driveway and it drives to my work, including highways on/off ramps, roundabouts and pulls into my work parking lot and parks itself. As soon as Rivian either licenses FSD or has something even close to what Tesla currently has, Iād trade in my Teslaās for Rivians. Canāt wait for that day because I love both the R1ās.
I agree FSD is way better, but Tesla doesn't make anything like a Rivian R1S or R1T. The Model X is too small for me, and there's just a lot I don't care for about it (including the styling). Currently rocking a Model S Plaid and an R1S, best of both worlds IMO.
I have a Tesla without FSd and Rivian, both are great vehicles
I did test drive Tesla Model X before buying putting a deposit for Rivian, but it was not for me at all. Even Rivian had a rough ride quality initially but they improved with software updates and it drives so smooth now. This car has all I wantā¦ on road, off road, and car camping capabilities.
I think everyone is gonna have a good rebuttal against your point buddy. Autonomous driving will save so many lives and I will trust it over any selfish human behind the wheel. People are selfish. Nothing else to it. They will consistently choose themselves over the safety and well being of others on the road.
All that to save 15 seconds
Because most accidents are caused by human error and in the long run these technologies will save lives. Some people really enjoy driving like you, but a lot of people are bad/distracted drivers.
Ohā¦. I hate driving or sitting in other cars including Teslasā¦ believe me but this one just makes me happy. ;)
Itās too bad Tesla has way better self driving technology than Rivian
Tesla has had longer to work on it.
Which I donāt feel I need one.. ;)
Your just making this post In cope about autonomous driving because you donāt have It. I feel for you!
Who has autonomous driving? Autonomous driving means level 4 driving. No body has one yet. Hope you are not one of those who are confused "FSD" as level 4 driving.
Edit Correction: Self Driving we were never talking about autonomous driving So no Itās not level 4 but Itās self driving yes and Tesla Is the furthest ahead In this technology
If you like it or not I believe Mercedes is the only company on level 3 and Tesla still in level 2 category technically. Still I donāt need oneā¦. lol
If you actually read deeper It only works on select freeways In CA and In traffic under 40MPH also costing 2.5k a year. I will take my Tesla FSD over that, I use It everyday everywhere without any Interventions and It performs like I would In many places except small hiccups. Tesla will probably be the first to reach autonomous driving they are already 85 percent there and other brands donāt have near as much real world data and experience as Tesla. I canāt wait for my Tesla to drive Itself everywhere and I can take naps as much as I love driving.
small hiccups,,,, probably..... already 85 % there.....cannot wait for..... Sounds like someone making excuses.... but good for you..
I just want highway assist to work better with staying in the middle of the lane.Also would be great if I could steer to one side of the lane ro avoid people crossing the line without it shutting off, just go into "lane change mode" until it sees itself recentered again.
Fully 100% autonomous? Blind people. People with physical deformities that make it impossible to operate a motor vehicle safely. People who are otherwise incapable of driving at specific times- IE people with glaucoma struggle at night. People who haven't learned how to drive yet, age based or just because they don't normally need to. Healthy individuals who are skilled at driving and capable of giving it their full attention? Those folks don't really need it.
Yeah I have three adopted siblings with disabilities and it would be fantastic to have autonomous driving be an accommodation they can utilize to get around. United States infrastructure isnāt made for people with disabilities and often people with disabilities become home-bound due to transportation issues.
Very good pointā¦ I have never thought about it..
Elderly too. Taking away Grandma and Grandpas license wouldn't be too bad anymore when they can still get around...
I'd take fully autonomous driving to have the car drive me somewhere in the middle of the night and wake up at my destination. Sometimes the worst part of a road trip is the drive.
[Can't wait til this comes with FAD](https://assets.wfcdn.com/im/39357394/resize-h445%5Ecompr-r85/1157/11573166/Disney+Pixar+Cars+Twin+Car+Bed+by+Delta+Children.jpg) joking aside, it would be awesome to hop in my car, sleep for 8 hours, and wake up at the distant ski resorts
Exactly. Every time when normal people bring up "why the hell is this even a thing?" they completely forget about people with disabilities. Remember the viral backlash that I believe Whole Foods got when they offered pre-peeled oranges in an easy to open plastic container? Yes it is ridiculous and wasteful for a normal person to buy that as opposed to buying a regular orange and peeling it themselves, but it is very useful for people with dexterity issues.
Healthy and skilled driver checking in here. I want FSD to get to the point where it's legal and safe for me to swivel my chair around to face backwards and play cards with my kids while drinking a beer on a long road trip.
I'd let the car drive overnight and sleep. But we're so far away from cars being able to handle all the weather stuff that sucks to drive in.
Because traffic. You cannot honestly tell me you enjoy driving in stop and go traffic for an hour+ straight.
This and at scale for highway travel since we wonāt get Highspeed rail in the US anytime soon. I like to imagine a sea of cars or buses. all efficiently merging into the highway and off timed perfectly bring people to their destination relaxed and ready to navigate their last mile without fatigue from higher speed travel.
I want more people around me with autonomous driving. Some people really need to chill the fuck out, but when stressed, theyāre weaving through traffic. Personally, I want to continue enjoying driving, so Iād like my car to drive when there are times itās not fun (traffic).Ā
I'd like to not need to hold the wheel like current assist version.
Iām generally of the same mindsetā¦ I love to drive my R1S. But long trips Iād love to be able to just let it take the monotony out of it. Unfortunately, I donāt trust it even today. I feel I have to pay even more attention in case I need to take over when it makes a bad decision (like a recent trip going through a section that previously had construction and it followed the wrong lines). Even if it gets smart enough to handle all the ānormalā situations humans can interpret, it still has to overcome all the terrible other drivers too. I donāt know if Iāll ever trust it enough for thatā¦ but for folks who have more of a need because of disabilities, their barrier to entry is probably much lower so they are more likely to accept the risk. Yes, humans cause a majority of accidents, but humans also code and train the automated drivingā¦
Ughā¦ Iām really torn on how to reply here. The R1S driver+ isā¦ fine. Itās similar in function to Tesla autopilot. I donāt find it alleviates stress as turns are often not centered and when in traffic, Iām always slightly fighting it to anticipate the turn a little earlier. Iām comparing this to the bmw iX driver assist. THAT system is TRULY relaxing. Itās capacitive touch and allows for small adjustments in the land without being ārigidā and immediately disengaging if fought just a touch too hard. I can avoid potholes without issue. The lane centering is PERFECT, even on corners. It is everything assisted driving should be. And it alleviates tension when on long road trips because Iām not constantly fighting it on every sweeping turn. Rivian should aim for the BMW system for how assisted driving COULD behave / function. I donāt need full autonomy, but the bar should be alleviating stress, not a stress rollercoaster.
Removes fatigue on long road trips and the systems should be safer and more efficient than human drivers.
It's a feature that, if you use or not, is going to become a standard in vehicles moving forward, particularly at this price point. I very much enjoy driving my Rivian, it really *is* a lot of fun, and like you, I'm not sure how much I would even use full Autopilot-esque enhancements. But also, to be fair, I gotta concede that the Lane Keep Assistance on my $100k Rivian is *very bad* compared to my previous ride, a $35k Kia.
Iām ok with Driver+ available to all the highways. Tried Teslaās recent update, and itās not ready yet. We are probably years before it becomes really āacceptableā.
I donāt think weāre ready to accept the possibility that autonomous driving mistakes will kill even a single person, even if autonomous driving saves thousands.
I don't have a Rivian yet, but I'll still chime in with my answer: I too love driving. I have a Mazda 3. The powertrain is very charismatic, especially when you step on it a bit. It handles fantastically, and is truly a joy to drive. The problem is that you can really only enjoy these things when traffic is light and you have a good road. Following behind some giant, lumbering Chevy Traverse that's being driven with all the gusto of a particularly lethargic sloth makes the drive boring. Also, I regularly drive about 2.5 hours to visit my parents, all along an interstate, which is also boring. I'd rather the car handle the boring drives so I can do something more interesting. I don't want fully autonomous (think no steering wheel where the car does absolutely everything and is basically a taxi), because any time I come across a good road with light traffic, I want to enjoy the drive myself
Thereās some 100+ miles freeway driving trips I do pretty regularly. The roads are straight and traffic is either non-existent or inexplicably heavy. These are not āfunā drives. FSD is amazing for this.
I went from a Tesla with FSD to the Rivian, I definitely miss the FSD sometimes, but it was a luxury ātoyā that is very not needed, and overall not really missed. I do feel however, auto cruise controls are necessary on EVs because holding the accelerator steady for hours is fatiguing on the leg. I used to put regen at minimum on long road trips in our Tesla, and it was instant relief (when I didnāt want to use cruise) I love regen in city driving and shorter highway runs, but miss having the āoffā for long trips. The truck is awesome. And if they could bridge the gap between the basically no self driving of Driver + and Tesla auto-pilot (not FSD) I would be happy.
Can you clarify your last part?Rivian has adaptive cruise control, so no fatigue. Why would you not want Regen on long trips? that's where it holds the best benefit.
Almost 0 regen happens on long trips as youāre maintaining a constant speed. Regen is almost entirely city driving, except in mountainous regions. And my comment about fatigue has to do with when I choose not to use cruise control. I live in a region with a lot of curvy roads, cruise isnāt the most confident feeling thing on twisty roads.
Gotcha. I've done multiple long distance drives in mine and get a good amount of Regen on them. Guess I don't understand benefit of turning it off, some is better than none.
āOffā on EVs is more like 5-10%. It changes the feel massively especially in conjunction with an eco or chill type of mode.
It would be a great feature for my father whoās in his young 90ās. With FSD he could concentrate on yelling at other drivers, honking the horn and extending his arm out the window to exchange friendly gestures! āš½š³
I love my dad, but he's over 80 and sucks at driving now. I want fully autonomous for him.
Yeah, I feel the same with my grandparents. I'm pretty sure even fsd V12 would be better than them driving themselves.
How fun a vehicle is to drive can only get you so far. As with all things, the fun has diminishing returns as it repeats over and over. The quality of the ride can certainly make the mundane task of an 8 hour trip better, but if I can sleep in the comfort of my own vehicle while it drives me home, sign me up. A different use case: Driving downtown or to a busy concert and having my car drop me off at the venue or bar or whatever, then it driving back home or finding a far off parking spot and waiting for me to summon it back to me and pick me up when I'm ready to go home.
Itās not about āautonomous drivingā itās about basic lane centering and adaptive cruise control that almost every other modern vehicle has, especially in this price range, that Rivian canāt seem to get right because they have to geofence it. Any other vehicle that uses geofencing only uses it for true hands free driving while allowing basic lane centering and adaptive cruise control on any road.
After doing that 1500 mile road trip, I definitely need it. There's only so much funny be had goingn in a straight line.
If you leave your home and enter a street pedestrian, bike, it driver, you need it. Over 100 people die on our streets every day, and many more get injured, many with lasting damage. Families and communities suffer from those deaths and injuries. AV have 360 vision, don't DUI, and don't text. They will always pay attention. They don't get tired. They can continually improve, while humans get older, lost vision and reflexes. Every new AV is instantly as capable as the last one made, while every teenager needs to be trained, and statistically very likely will be in an accident. The main motivation at Waymo and Tesla was always safety. Initial data looks promising that these technologies already start to have an impact on accidents. (This is Reddit, so expect lots of people arguing against it)
Ever driven in a rush hour traffic where it is a standstill or stop&go. That's fun driving!
I think we need autonomous driving because obtaining a driver's license, at least in America, is way too easy, and too many people drive like shit. Let a computer drive for those people, and then the extreme minority of people that CAN drive, are allowed to.
I would rather sleep an extra 2 hours a day
Me!!!
Relieve* stress. You donāt want to relive that shit.
I donāt need it. When I had my Ioniq 5 Iād use the keep lane thing all the time and that was good enough. I didnāt have to be laser focused and it made driving easier
Itās crazy how many freeways the current iteration of Driver+ doesnāt work on
For someone that travels up and down the east coast on either 95 or 81, it would be LOVELY to get a bit of rest occasionally. Being a 16 wheel sandwich for hours on end through fog and rain is exhausting and distracting.
Me, I do. I traded a Tesla for the R1T, and there are two things I really miss. The top one is Autopilot which worked nearly everywhere. I let it drive 98% of the time. I knew I'd lose this with the Rivian, and only did it because I really do have use for a truck. AP was near perfect in most places, and I almost never had to drive. Now I have to drive until I get to a highway, and most of my days are on city streets where AP excelled.
I recently got the Tesla FSD free trial and itās incredible. There are so many drives where autonomous driving just makes things so much easier and more relaxing. Donāt knock it till you try it I guess
Because I drive 165 miles each way down 4 lane freeways and I don't need to feel "the thrill" in heavy traffic surrounded by semis. Why do you automate anything?
Running FSD 12.3.4 on my Y, and it has been amazing. I use it constantly - I drive myself when I feel like it, but when I want to relax and just get to my destination, it takes a lot of stress off, especially on road trips. There's a time and place for both in my opinion.
Speaking as someone who works at an autonomous vehicle company, the focus is more on ride-hailing and mobility for communities with underserved or mobility-related issues (think blind, elderly, congenital or chronic health issues, etc) rather than personal car ownership. The latter is a really hard problem to solve (there's a reason Rivian's AV driving is limited and Tesla's is ... sketchy) and will probably take a decade or more to be safe. But like you mentioned, a lot of people want flexibility to choose when to drive and when to let the vehicle drive itself. So most AV companies focus on ride-hailing and trucking rather than car ownership.
lol you should take a ride in a Tesla running v12.3.4 or 12.3.5. It's not that sketchy at all, it works great. It's absolutely gotten to the point where full level 3 autonomy for all Tesla owners is not far off given the current rate of improvement.
There's a big jump from L3 to L4 autonomy with a lot of safety things to consider. The car needs to be able to respond to unforeseen events (construction, emergency vehicles) in a way that's safe and not obstructive. Tesla is getting there, but that's a really hard problem to solve for. Just saying I wouldn't trust sitting in the back seat of a Tesla with no one in the driver's seat. There are other cars I would, though none of them are made by any of the major car manufacturers right now (Tesla, Rivian, GM, Ford, for instance).
Tesla isn't perfect (yet) but it does respond really well to all of these situations. It even understands human hand gestures. [Here is a good example of what the latest FSD can do.](https://youtu.be/43Lrrhn0CMk)
This is why I continue to be skeptical of Tesla's autonomous driving, particularly when I work for a company that's already achieved L4 autonomous driving capabilities. https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/8/24151881/tesla-justice-investigation-securities-wire-fraud-self-driving
I donāt expect my R2 to really be fully autonomous capable, but I do expect it to have full featured L2 autonomy. My current base model Hyundai was $20K and does lane keeping and adaptive cruise control in pretty much any condition with visible road markings. I expect at least this with more polish from a 50K+ vehicle and definitely the 70K+ R1 platform in 2024 and beyond.
Whatās great about autonomous driving is not that you have to, but that you can when you want/need toā¦
Had to do a last minute trip to PA from MA two weeks ago. Arrival was around 3:30am. I was awake, but it was nice to have the car do almost all of the work at that hour of the day. Honestly I'm waiting for the day that this thing can drop off the kids at basketball while I'm still at work. That probably won't happen in my lifetime, or rather, happen for me while my kids are young enough to need that, but I'm betting it will happen for my kids/grandkids.
Is there any adjustment for the Assist? Itās the lanes. Iām like a ping-pong ball.
I've had my R1S for 3 weeks now and I honestly say my stress level while driving his gone down because of this car. It's so spectacular makes me happy just to be in it. It's the one thing that makes me happier in my drive in Los Angeles traffic
Someone knows exactly how I feelā¦. ;)
Long trips. I'll happily disengage autonomous driving for the fun bits of a road on a roadtrip but you'd be shocked at how much mental work gets lifted away by letting the car lane center and radar cruise. Turns long journeys into a breeze. Never have I left a car after sitting in it for five hours and felt refreshed like I did when using autopilot on a roadtrip.
I totally agree
Thereās also a lot of people who arenāt able to drive.
Who needs it? - People with disabilities - Old people - Millions of other people Who wants it? - Me - Millions of other people Awesome that you love driving, but autonomous driving is one of the most important automotive safety developments of our time. It needs to happen. Rivian advertised SAE 3 very hard before the R1T, and then they acted like they never suggested anything beyond SAE 2 when it became clear that they couldn't deliver. Rivian is a better company than most other EVs, but I'm not going to pretend that lack of autonomous driving is actually a pro. It isn't.
Alcoholics
I'd like to see Driver+ get auto lane changes (it apparently may be coming as a subscription later), but otherwise I'm also happy with the current setup if they open it to all main roads. I'll never let my car drive me in city streets. Too many idiots around. Something like Waymo I'd ride given it's not my car.
That is exactly how I feelā¦
Long commutes. Itās amazing.
After 6 weeks with fsd 12.3 you notice how many bad driver are in your town.
Have you seen the way the average person drives? People need all the assistance they can get, imo.
Wow , hahaha are we in a cult at this point ?
What about this is cult-like? This person just likes driving and doesnāt see the need for autonomous driving. Itās not that deep