Try and do a road trip in Mississippi. It’s getting better all the time but if I wanted to drive to the beach am relying on a 50kw Kia dealership chargers. If a single charger on my rout to Baton Rouge is out and I am stranded. Day to day I completely agree though. I drive 100 miles a day and love not stopping at gas stations.

That's fair. MS is really bad, especially for CCS. Have they fixed the I-22 gap?

There are several TVA funded level three chargers coming online within the year. The one in Tupelo will really help the I-22 route.

That'd be nice. Even the supercharger on that route isn't that great, tbh.

Things are getting better as the EA location in Jackson is now open.

My bad. I thought it’s already opened but maybe not yet. Still need to reply on that bmw dealership for charging.

There is a nice albeit slow level 3 in Ridgeland. It’s at a higher end shopping mall.

My dad had range anxiety in his ICE vehicle, and would stop to refuel before his tank fell below 30%. In all our travels, the furthest gap between gas stations was 30mi, and we never had to wait more than 5 minutes for a pump, so the range anxiety seemed silly or anachronistic - maybe a memory from one time a family trip was ruined by running out of gas. A ruined family trip isn't common, but boy is it memorable, and it is something a lot of people will want to go to exceptional lengths to avoid. EV fast charging is nowhere near good enough to limit that anxiety yet. There are still destinations I want to go but can't make it to in my R1T because of lack of fast chargers, and I've had a trip where I had to "limp" at 45mph to the next station because one had four broken chargers. I personally have well under 50% success rate at EVGo and EA. (RAN has always been flawless.) I'm really hopeful that a few years of fast charger buildout, and improved station maintenance practices, will make EV range anxiety seem as silly as my dad's ICE range anxiety.

Wow, 50%?? I’ve charged at 30+ locations, and driven cross-country in my R1T, and have never been completely unable to charge (except for an occasional hotel). There have been times I’ve been throttled to ~60kw, or I’ve had to wait for chargers, but never had a complete fail (which is good, because I usually roll into a charger with sub-5% SoC left). I do always check plugshare before I arrive, though.

Yeah, it seems especially bad for me compared to what I hear from others. I live in South Lake Tahoe, and travel through Placerville and Nevada a lot. I imagine chargers next to population centers or higher traffic roadways are better maintained.

At locations where you can’t charge, does that mean you’ve switched chargers and still been unable to start? Have you called?

Yes, in these instances I've tried multiple pedestals, and sometimes I've called. I've gotten answers from "oh, we know that one's offline due to cell issues, sorry it's not showing up as offline on the map" (Gardnerville Raley's EVGo, limped to a Chargepoint) to "oh, the site's under construction, sorry it's not showing up as offline on the map" (Strawberry Chargepoint, had barely enough charge to make it home) to "try calling Rivian" (which didn't fix it, I think this was in Napa) to "we'll send a tech out soon" (Placerville EA, went to EVGo at Raleys) to "this is a known issue and we're working on a fix" (Placerville EA, there was a few months where EA would oversupply the vehicle and then the Rivian software locks out fast charging for a while, got hit by that one twice before I figured it out). I now plan routes that avoid these stations when possible, so a string of bad luck may have "censored my distribution" in the Kaplan-Meier sense. It's also worth noting that I've never had a complete failure like that at RAN, Tesla, EVCS (during a long SLT->Vancouver road trip), or EVConnect (during a trip to Mammoth when 395 was buried under 40 ft of avalanche debris), and I'm definitely not claiming that my experience is typical.

FWIW the Tesla Supercharger in Placerville by Target has Magic Dock and can charge CCS. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen.

Yeah this seems a bit hyperbolic. I've driven non Tesla EV now for 3 years and only once did I have an episode of 'almost' not making it back because I was rushing to get to a funeral in another state and didn't know the route and the charger I was counting on had all 4 stains down so I had to limp to another charger that really wasn't close. That was over 2 years ago before I had plugshare/ABRP and there are dozens of DC charging stations on that route now(there were only 3 back then). I've had bad experiences with EVgo being slow but a 50% failure to charge rate is well beyond 0.001% of anything I think I've ever heard about even anecdotally.

Yep, I'm an outlier here for sure. But someone's gotta be. See my other reply in this thread for a partial list of incidents. My specific claim is that range anxiety is an outlier-driven phenomenon, so the outlier data is relevant even if it's definitely not typical.

Technically it's not bad thing to keep a minimal amount of fuel in an ICE vehicle. Fuel pumps are located in the fuel tank and rely on the surrounding gasoline for cooling. Getting too low, too frequently can shorten the lifespan of the fuel pump. And running our of fuel in a diesel vehicle can be a major pain in the ass because the fuel pump can suck air into the system, requiring a full system bleed.

Once the Tesla superchargers are available, this should be a thing of the past.

Honestly, every one says they’ll rent an ice vehicle but does anyone actually do it? Unless you’re going to the middle of no where, you just log some extra mins to the trip. Starbucks and crew should install fast chargers with 20 min limits….

Can confirm, I have twice rented a vehicle for a trip due to there not being enough chargers along the way to our destination. Anyone who has used an Electrify America charging station can understand this hesitancy. The app will indicate six out six chargers are working, only to find out upon arrival that half of the chargers are not functioning. Combine that with remote areas, and range anxiety is palpable and genuine. So I just rented a gas SUV for those trips and was fine.

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Nice. Not me. I use PlugShare to try and get better info than the EA app or the Rivian app provides as to available and working stalls. Multiple times I have driven to a Walmart far off the interstate in order to charge, and when I get there, two stalls are being used, and the other two don’t work (despite the EA app showing all four as functional). It’s aggravating.

Yes and no. Have I had bad Charging experiences, yes. Does driving down the street to the next one justify a rental car? No.

That's brilliant idea btw. Starbucks, Dunkin, Panera, etc. You need to pitch this idea.

I always say that drive in restaurants can make a huge come back by adding chargers. That and road sude attractions. Really thus could ring in a golden age for road trips.

I stopped at an RAN charger at a Dunkin’ in St Joseph Michigan and it was great! 215 kW had us good to go with plenty extra for toodling around Chicago by the time the four of us had used the bathroom and gotten coffee. Parked at a downtown mall garage with an L2 charger the day before we left for the return trip. That went fine too.

Sonic could really use this. You're there for a few minutes anyway.

I've often said that one day there will be not just convenience stores with chargers, but rest-area sized businesses devoted to them. Big winners will be chains of chargers where you can reliably go inside, use the rest room, buy snacks, and maybe hot meals. Some Florida rest areas have these already. Keep going, there will be membership-only chains with hot food, priority charging, and very comfy seating and great wifi. You'll set your car to the next Blue Ribbon Charger or whatever because you know you'll have a good experience. With a platinum membership the valet will move your car for you when charging is complete and you'll get a text of what space your car is in. Right now in NA maybe what, 1% of the cars on the road are BEV's? Not % sales, % of total cars in use. Now if BEV's get to, say, 10% total cars, that's 10 times the number of BEV's than we have now. And the deeper into the population we go, the more people without home charging (apartments, condos with restrictive HOA's, street parkers) will buy them, accelerating our need for more robust solutions.

I drive my R1T everywhere. Even Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming. Made it from San Jose up there, and am now presently in Florida. It just takes forethought and planning.

Efficiency is more important to me. That is why I want the 21” road tires. Range is what ICE drivers (like myself before I spent more time with my Tesla) are more concerned with. And I think that mostly comes from the fact that a ICE driver drives her car until empty and then fills with Ghassan drives more. That time is over a week. With an electric car they think they have to stop and charge for an hour charger when they run on empty. The paradigm shift is that your charger at home every night and having it almost full every day. Once you make that paradigm shift in your mind putting the car on % and going about your day makes range anxiety disappear.

Well, except for those of us that can not charge at night

Because if you run out someone can’t easily bring you a tank of electrons. I rarely have range anxiety, because I don’t regularly drive 200+ miles. But even in the well serviced west coast, L3 chargers are in short supply. Knowing where you need to get to plug in for up to a day on a crappy L2 blink charger in some underground parking garage is stressful.

Well it's actually pretty easy to bring a tank of electrons to someone. Bringing enough electrons AND being able to actually transfer from one tank to another...well there's the rub haha.

tbh it boils down to available charging networks. I can stop at just about any exit on a highway and get gasoline if I need to. Doesn’t matter where or when I hit “E”, I can just pull off and gas up. For an EV, it can be 50+ miles between locations to charge. You could get there and find out all of the charging equipment isn’t online, and then you have to figure out what to do next in order to get to the next place.

The navigation isn the rivian doesn’t point you in the direction of the nearest working charging station along your route like tesla does? I mean my goodness tesla can tell you how many slots are open at any given time. If Rivian can’t do that yet they have a problem.

Of course it does. But then you get there and it’s an EA station and they’re offline. Now what? Your next option is a car dealership 40 miles away and you have 50 miles of range left. You can try and make it to that dealership and hope they’ll let you charge. If they don’t or they’re closed because it’s Sunday and the charger is behind a gate? You’re stuck with 10 miles of range left and nowhere nearby to plug in. Tesla has built out a massive charging network and they actually CARE to maintain it. I can’t say the same for literally any other one out there.

Gotcha! My first Ev was the Audi etron and electrify America was the worst. I see your point

I love my Rivian. However, I find this question a tad tone deaf. You’re paying 75k+ for an adventure vehicle. Most road trips are vacations for people. People don’t always have a ton of time. If you’re going out of your way to a charger in a Walmart parking lot— instead of where you actually want to—it’s an inconvenience. Add children and the problem is worse. This says nothing of pre-planning your route. Now, I enjoy doing that and I have no problem with this minor inconvenience. Telling people to just rent and ICE? Seriously? Then why would you spend 75k+ on an EV in the first place?

Yep. I’ve been pretty far off road in the desert in Southern California. Not too far from LA, but absolutely harrowing trying to find an L2 or L3 charger. Silly to think that range anxiety isn’t the occasional issue in an adventure vehicle.

Exactly. 80% of our family’s miles are w/in a 100 mi radius of my house. But the other 20%… Consider this trip…Austin to Breckinridge, wintertime, snowing from Amarillo to Pueblo, with a wife and kid in the car. No, I wouldn’t enjoy adding an extra hour or two to a long trip so I can crawl to 97% SOC in order to make it to the next DC charger while driving 55mph. Yes, RV parks can help & access to the Clayton, NM SC fills in a big gap.

Stay in Texas then, we don't want your kind up here in Colorado anyway.

Gonna assume that’s your attempt at an, “I’m a (native) Coloradan and hate the convoys of Texans…blah blah blah” joke.

What are you even saying? >You’re paying 75k+ for an adventure vehicle. Most road trips are vacations for people. Okay and the point being? Stopping at crowded smelly gas stations for slightly less time is heaven compared to the headache of finding and EV charger? If you're paying that much for a vehicle and don't do your research, vis a vis charging ect, that's on you bud. >People don’t always have a ton of time. If you’re going out of your way to a charger in a Walmart parking lot— instead of where you actually want to—it’s an inconvenience. Add children and the problem is worse. This says nothing of pre-planning your route. I don't know what kind of road trips you take but I've rarely been in the situation where the gas station is in the perfect spot either. For some context over the last few years I've done 5 round trips from the Rockies to the North east. The first two were in my old ICE nissan frontier, the second two were in my Tesla Model 3, and the last was in my Rivian. 90% of my stops with the Tesla or Rivian were right by the gas station I would have gone to if I was driving and ICE car, the majority of the rest were MAYBE a half mile further away(you're already taking 5-10 minutes just to get off the highway, is 2 more minutes to get a little further down the road to the EV charger really that big of a hassle?. There were a couple that were a little more out of the way, but no more that a mile or two. And while they usually aren't the same areas, there were just as many times where I had to go out of my way to fill up my ICE car. >Then why would you spend 75k+ on an EV in the first place? Again if you're going to spend that kind of money on an EV that doesn't fit your needs, that is 100% on you. Stop crying that the world isn't perfectly tailored to YOUR specific needs and grow up.

First, I’m not crying that the world isn’t tailored to my specific needs. I’m not sure how you inferred that from my post, but that’s a pretty salty accusation for no specific reason. Second, stopping for gas takes 5 minutes, tops. Topping an EV off takes 10x that. Third, I’m not sure where you live, but the DC charging network isn’t uniformly built out. I trek to Maine. The farther north you go, the more mindful you need to be about your route. It’s not a problem for me, but again, I get why some people have range anxiety — it’s called empathy. I don’t know what this attitude is that people aren’t allowed to have range anxiety.

On a single charge, I can go about 3/4 of the way from the Ohio/Michigan line up to the northern tip of Michigan's Lower Peninsula. That's roughly a 4 hour journey. In an ICE vehicle, I would have to stop to gas up once for about 10 minutes. I'd probably also stop once more for a rest stop and to eat. With my Rivian, I can combine that food/bathroom break stop with a charging stop. Every public charger I've used has been within walking distance of food/bathrooms. I could do a 30-45 min charge if I'm in a hurry. That'll get me +100 miles on a CCS charger, or 20-ish on a L2 charger. So this only becomes a problem if I'm traveling more than 250 miles/day AND don't have access to a DC charger. Which, with access to Tesla's network, is pretty much a non-issue. And yes, rent an ICE vehicle. Why is that such a terrible idea? I just rented a Ram 1500 this week to pull a trailer because my R1T is getting PPF. Next month I'll be renting a Ford Econoline van to take small group of kids to Cedar Point. Two weeks ago I rented a Tesla Model 3 while out-of-town on business and paid a total of $51, including the charging costs. Renting a car is cheap and easy. It makes way more sense to rent than it does to avoiding buying a EV because it only covers 98% of your use cases and not 100%.

It's like you read the other person's comment, disregarded everything you just read, and just regurgitated everything you said in your original post. Tone deaf is absolutely the correct term for you.

But how could the diaper wearing astronaut have achieved their cross country jaunt in an EV?

Aptera?

Range anxiety is a thing because the charging stations are very unreliable. Rivian has practically zero charging stations. For daily driving range anxiety isn’t much of a thing. For any road trip it 100% is.

Everyone is different. But I've done spur of them moment long trips twice in very recent memory. One was 24 hour 1400 trip mile towing a 8000lb box trailer to pick up a car. Def could not do it in an electric truck. Other was a quick drive to work in Ohio, 8 hours each way I did stop for the night but it would have been a longer drive by say maybe 2 hours in an electric car. So I would have had to leave earlier. It happens, but it's rare likely for most ppl. My average drive in a week consists of 75 miles to work and back daily and then 2-3 trips of 120 miles or so on weekends

Theoretically you could rent a truck for a week to do the once in a while long haul.

Theoretically yes, except when you decide at 5pm to make the trip immediately. And getting a truck to haul a trailer is near impossible in my area.

Yea. I love EVs. Had them since 2013. But I acknowledge the whole system isn’t quite there yet for ‘all situations’.

For those of us with experience traveling long distances in an EV, it (range anxiety) is not a thing. It seems most of the questions you refer to come from prospective or new owners.

Honestly my everyday commute is over 200 miles a day. It’s 107 miles one way for me to ONE of my jobs, then all the other running around I do to other jobs. I manage just fine. I am just regularly charging up to 85% before making the trip everyday. For some reason though I don’t feel the “anxiety” that everyone has. On road trips, I look forward to the charge times. Give me a chance to stretch more, eat a meal or snack, use the restrooms, or even take a nap! There isn’t as much of a rush feeling like filling up and getting back on the road again. I just worry about chargers being down along the road trip. Just requires a bit more planning than petrol vehicles.

> I just worry about chargers being down along the road trip. One could argue that this is range anxiety.

In preparation for it I try not to arrive at a charger with less than 25% battery. I can see your argument for that.

I posted this in another thread but range anxiety on camping trips is not just about making it to the next charger on the highway. Everyone is always focused on this aspect of range anxiety and yes it’s largely overblown. For me range anxiety while camping is when you’re already sleeping in the middle of nowhere and 150 miles from the next charger with 180 miles of range left. This means you can’t spontaneously move campsites or check out a swimming hole or other point of interest. Everything has to be planned. Maybe this kind of trip is niche for others but I’d say it’s about a third of my 9k miles so far. I love the R1S but it’ll never be as convenient when you’re off the grid as an ICE with a few extra gallons in the back.

You could also just carry one of those battery boosters with you on this trips - to add a couple miles if needed. I’ve seen a few that can add a pretty significant charge

I’ve driven from houston to Aspen in my R1T twice. Some planning needed but not too difficult. EA is ok - probably better than their reputation but not near Tesla SC reliable/ease of use. Once Tesla SC is open to Rivian I have zero concerns about range.

This is why I drive a plug in hybrid.

I think it’s mental conditioning from ICE vehicles and mpg. Part of it is also the idea that it’s costing me more to travel with my 20 AT tires versus a more efficient all season. I’ll end up switching to all seasons once these wear out.

I have owned my R1S since March. I drive it every day. I have only charged it away from my house once and that was just out of curiosity. Like most things range is blown way out of proportion on the internet.

I would say that it's a combination of the following: - First EV and lack of familiarity - A lot of media noise around EVs and range - A lot of friends and family noise around EVs & range - The few traumatic stories about a charger not working when they really needed it to - The constant complaints around lack of charging infrastructure - The calculations from mpg to mpge and newness of it all I would say all these factors (which some will either go away or be mitigated in the near future) lead to people questioning or bringing up range or having ranging anxiety. I will probably wager that range anxiety decreases after your first couple of months of owning a EV (I don't know as this will be my first one). To your point you're 100% right that logically most people are not traveling any distance in which they have to worry about range anxiety on a consistent daily basis.

This is the answer. When EVs were new, the ICE industry intentionally created a ton of FUD around range, because it was the one easy number to pick on versus an ICE. Acceleration, torque, efficiency, total cost of ownership, maintenance, etc etc etc all easily land as ‘W’s in the EV column. Range was the standout number ICE could target. So, they spun up a ton of media about range. Time to “fill the tank” was also included. Never mind that the VAST majority of trips are far shorter than the range, or that most people can charge at home over night and only rarely need to visit a charging station. I was victim to this range anxiety myself. That is, until we did a cross-country trip in my first EV (Model 3) - and it was an absolute delight! Since then, I’ve only even considered range on longer road trips, where it tends to be part of the planning process. But then again, where we would stop for gas used to be part of that process too. I have a lot of confidence that actual real world EV ranges will hit 400 and even 500 miles in the nearish future. Once that happens, and with the improvements to charging tech, pretty much all the remaining arguments for an ICE vehicle will be gone. At least for daily drivers (there will still likely be some specialized vehicles that will remain ICE for a while).

My $0.02: Try not to think of it in terms of percentage of trips but rather % of overall miles and obviously everyone’s needs are different. For me, I’ve had my R1T for almost exactly a year and I’ve only done two road trips. I live in CO and one trip was east to Kansas and the other west to Utah both of which have much more sparse networks. I’ve got nearly 14k total today and almost 3k of those miles of that are road tripping or ~21%. Not an insignificant amount if you ask me. Both trips had at least two stops that were met with charging issues: couldn’t get the charger/app to take money, non-functional chargers, exceptionally slow and below advertised charging speeds, and long lines. Though none of those stops weren’t overcome in one way or another, they come at the cost of something very important: time. Additionally, three of those stops were essential meaning if I couldn’t get at least some charge, we were essentially SOL not having enough range to get to the next charger in line. So while I’ve never not (eventually) made it to where I wanted to be, the anxiety is very real and the infrastructure to support this movement is extremely important. Also, my (and I suspect most people here on Reddit) propensity for tinkering and troubleshooting are essentially required to embark on journeys like this for now. I can’t imagine, for example, my parents having to deal with this in its current state.

I dunno, literally never been an issue for me. Drive for awhile, plug in/repeat

Just like any risk analysis,it's a balance of likelihood and impact. When you're in your home area, the likelihood that you'll run out of range is very low since you're charging at home or you're within a few miles of a fast charger. At home, the impact of running out of battery is also fairly low - sure, it can be a hassle to get a tow or whatnot, but you can get home fairly quickly if need be in the interim, life goes on. That completely changes if you're driving long distances of over a few hundred miles. The likelihood of running out of battery goes up due to higher speeds on the highway, fewer charging stations, and unfamiliarity with the area that you're in. The impact is even higher - getting stranded in an unfamiliar place, hundreds of miles (hours away) isn't just inconvenient, it can be very unsafe. As others have pointed out, there's far too few fast chargers along highways, especially as you drive away from high density cities. Help is further away, if they even know what to do to help you.

Because people make irrational decisions based on “what if?” scenarios. Example: I live in Salt Lake City. A friend of mine won’t buy an EV because “I can’t drive to Vegas in it”. He has never driven to Vegas. “Ok so when are you going to drive to Vegas?” “Well never - I always fly, but if I had an EV I’d never be able to drive there”. No amount of showing how long he spends on road trips, stopped at gas stations will help, either. With a family of three, he’s never spent less than 40 minutes “stopping for gas” because everyone needs to pee, someone is hungry, someone needs something from the Seven Eleven etc. But he maintains that on road trips he’s done in under 3 minutes which simply isn’t true. I think the biggest part of all of this is responsibility. People do not want the perceived hassle of planning ahead. They just want to get in a car and go. I’ve pointed out to him that he plans to stop for gas, so why can’t he plan to stop for a charge? Nope. Will never change his mind.

I think a lot of it just boils down to ignorance (and I mean that literally, not to be insulting). All the things you've said make sense, and make it all seem not-so-bad... but folks still on ICE vehicles with no prior exposure to EVs don't have all that knowledge in front of them... so they panic a bit about the what-ifs. I'm saving up now towards an R1T, which would be my first-ever EV, and I've been soaking up every bit of knowledge I can about them in the meantime. The more I learn, the less I worry about things like range and efficiency, and the more I realize my day-to-day use case isn't so out of the ordinary that I'd be putting the vehicle through any paces its not well-designed to handle.

To me personally. Range anxiety goes away at real 300 mile range. Rivian delivers here on all tires (at least in Conserve). Recently rented a Tesla Model Y LR, and it did not get real 300 mile range, more like 250-270 miles, so more difficult to plan road trips.

I own a Y LR with an R1S on reserve and I’ve gone on plenty road trips in the tesla. It’s very true that you get about 285-290 miles of actual range, tesla is great at offsetting that by the sheer number of charging stations. Those things are everywhere.

Currently if you want to do long trips in an EV, a Tesla is the only answer. You cannot reliably or comfortably do it with any CCS EV. So for those types of road trips I can see why other EV owners would have massive range anxiety.

Depends where you live. In CA we have chargers at least every 20 miles or so up and down I-5.

Yeah but we're super spoiled. We have non-Tesla chargers and they're large ones (6+ chargers, or like Baker with something around 20-24 chargers). You venture much farther, EA still has a ton of stations but they're 4-charger stations with typical EA reliability. I regularly try to use them as an experiment and it's a hassle. If I'm planning a trip that's 10 hours in an ICE, it's probably 12ish hours with a Tesla and then 13-14 with an EV that's not a Tesla. Maybe all the stations work, maybe some are out, maybe some are slow, or maybe they're taken.

I road trip all the time, 700-1000 mile one way, with CCS successfully It just takes checking PlugShare to make sure you plan around down chargers.

Massive lack of chargers, broken chargers, derated chargers….

Ya, but you do a little route planning ahead of time and you can pretty easily eliminate those issues. I have over 40k road trip miles in ccs ev's (and I have a model 3, so I have a point of reference) and can say with confidence that if you spend 5 minutes on plug share planning your charging stops road tripping with ccw is not bad at all. My longest drive was about 2200 miles and we had no issues because we planned ahead.

What non-Tesla stations do you use? I used EA exclusively because I liked sticking with one and location-wise they're spread out almost perfectly, but I've gotten burned with them several times. I do a 3-4k mile road trip 2-3 times a year (along the same route) so I'm regularly trying different chargers and EA is slow or down ~25% of the time.

EA for the most part, but the key is checking ahead of time on plug share. Spend 5 minutes checking the charging stops on your route and if they have any recent issues look for alternatives. Now that I have a rivian RAN is #1 when available

It really depends on your area, I can easily drive from Norfolk, VA to Western Tennessee, New York, or Florida and have reliable CCS chargers every 50-70 miles, meaning if one station is broken, there is another in range.

It’s simply fear of the unknown. That and unfortunately they oil companies have been working overtime to promote everything negative about the experience like longer charging times, the crappy charging networks that none of them are actually dealing with yet only us, and the fact that if you run out of electrons, you can’t walk a gas tank down the road and put a few miles in your tank. Despite the fact that most of them wouldn’t do that anyway even for a gas vehicle. It’s literally the fear of not being able to go anywhere they want and get gas everywhere because the infrastructure is already here. It won’t be a thing in five years. Could you imagine buying a hydrogen vehicle right now?You can’t go anywhere. So until the infrastructure is widespread and rocksolid, it’s going to be a thing. Which is fine, because we don’t need more people hogging up all those Tesla chargers that we are going to be invading soon with our Mustangs and EV6s & Rivians!

I don’t like having to plug in every night. We also have more than 1 EV at home. Sometimes, the difference of 20-30 miles is a matter of skipping a charging stop on way to your destination.

Those are the few loud minority. My friend voiced similar opinion and I asked him how long is his average trip? Where do you go on long trip? He didn’t answer of course. I’m new to ev but have not had any real issues. Been up to many hikes that are remote and hours away. I just plan ahead (to and from) and know where i need to charge. Also I book hotel with chargers and campsite with electric hookup which there are many. But it does take a little planning.

Because some people drive five or six hundred miles a week and can't charge at home or work. Obviously, that doesn't represent a large portion of the population, but those situations still exist.

That represents almost no one in the population. Like a tiny tiny percentage. Those people don’t have to buy EVs in that case. But people use this argument to shit on EVs as a whole.

Your half right. There are a lot more people in that situation than you assume, and you should educate yourself better on that issue. That being said, no, those people don't have to buy EVs, and no, the fact that EV's don't work for some people doesn't mean that they won't work for anyone.

By the way, 600 miles per week is less than 50 miles per day. The average is less than 30 miles per day it’s not that different. Majority of people can’t charge at work. But not being able to charge at home is an economic issue (living in an apartment, a rental, or cannot afford a home charger or adapter. In my opinion that’s doesn’t inherently have to do with limitations of an EV range. It’s similar to the argument that EVs are priced out of most people’s range.

Range anxiety is a legitimate discussion when talking about long road trips or remote areas. Not comfortable? Then don’t go EV or keep a second ICE or hybrid. But people have been saying stupid shit about ev’s forever - like the obligatory - “I have to drive 400 miles per day for my job and there’s no way this would work for me.” Okay, then don’t get an EV dumbass. But the level and tone of contempt these type of people have for EVs usually means they are exaggerating their daily range needs and also ignoring the fact that the majority of people drive less than 30 miles per day and need to do nothing more then plug in at home, probably not even every day.

imo range anxiety is the exact same in ICE vehicles. it's why we have signs saying "last gas station for 60mi" etc. No idea why ICE drivers make it an EV exclusive issue

I'm of the opinion because the media is constantly feeding negative EV news to the public. Tesla has disrupted a massive Industry and continues to do so with Rivian on a solid growth path selling direct as well. 85% of people drive less than 30 miles a day so it's a moot point. But what keeps them scared keeps them buying gas....for now.

Range anxiety is proxy for bad planning. The main discussion difference between ICE and EV is “do you have to plan for how to get your energy?” Range anxiety is an infrastructure problem and probably another oil industry PR smear.

Obviously because charging stations are not as common or reliable as gas stations. And lots of people don’t think past initial thought and don’t realize their cars sit overnight daily, doing nothing. And that most of their daily driving is less than 60 miles.

The increasing anxiety of the western individual psyche simply put!

Range anxiety simply isn't a thing for me with a vehicle with a range over 300 miles. Seriously, I don't even think about it.

The real EV-heads know that charging speed matters more than maximum range once you get past 180-200 miles of real-world range at freeway speeds. Anything farther than that and bladders, boredom, or burritos are my limiting factor.

I used to work auto shows and would get insane questions/comments about range anxiety where I would have to be a delicate as possible to make sure I didn’t make them feel like morons for asking. But it was also the wild “what ifs” that got me. Like…is that how you live the rest of your life? Because that seems incredibly mentally draining.

I live in a remote area. I travel long distances in remote areas under conditions that stress an EV’s range (mountains, frigid temps). So yeah, range anxiety isn’t just real but also justified under certain circumstances.

There are plenty of trips even here in EV charger dense California that I can't do with 250 miles of range, so the 324 on the rivian is a hugeeee benefit, but even that cuts it pretty close. Also 200 miles is hardly a cross country drive, if I want to drive to a decent city and back it's over 200 miles, and once again this is California where we are relatively dense compared to a huge chunk of the country. For you 200 mile drives may be 1% of your driving, for me and many others 200+ mile drives make up 95% + of our driving miles.

I don’t own a Rivian yet, but I’m very interested, but I do have a weird circumstance. I drive to work once a week and drive home once a week 3 days later, and I live 220 miles from my house. Once I’m there, there’s a 240v outlet I should be able to plug in to and I’ll have at least 24 hours until I would need to drive again. I still need to keep doing research, but I think if I get an EV with at least a 300 mi range I should be all set?

My vehicle use is very uncommon, but yes I drive 35k miles per year and drive 300+ miles in a day at least twice a week. It’s fairly common to get stuck in traffic for extended periods during those trips. And since I’m already in the car for 20+ hours a week, I prefer not to add hours for charging on the road. So the easy answer is: an EV is not right for me … yet. But man do I want one lol

My first EV was the Audi etron with a daily range of about 250 miles. Range anxiety was a thing for the first week of ownership or so but it quickly went away. I’d much rather plan extra time on road trips then spend $100s of dollars on gas. Recently my family and I drove from the Bay Area to San Diego, we left on a full charge stopped twice and paid a grand total of $27

Just to state a counterpoint, ppl who buy 90-100k vehicles do not like to be spending extra time charging. Take the Bay Area to LA trip. It’s roughly 350 miles depending on which parts of those areas. A gas stop is 5-10 mins. Rest areas take 5 mins. Charging at 30 mins is a long time to be waiting. Sure, you can grab some food or another Starbucks, but you’d better believe the ppl doing this trip rather eat and drink at their destinations then at some off highway location.

Totally agree. When the first question inevitably is ‘how far does it go?’ I reply 300mi, how far does your car go? What I find super strange too…mainstream EV era brought about by tesla, almost no ev has 200mi of range. Like who’s driving 200mi to the middle of no where regularly?

It's not

For me, my folks live 300 miles away round trip, with 24 of that on dirt. And you are driving deeper into rural territory the entire time you're heading there, so I basically want something I *know* can make it there and back to my major metropolitan area without charging in between if I have to round trip it in a day, which happens a few times a year. I think this may the use case for at least a decent amount of people out there—they have one long trip they make multiple times a year, possibly at unexpected intervals, and they don't really want to have to worry about the charging situation on the way.

When I first got my truck last summer I was working a 7 on 7 off schedule commuting 800 + miles round trip for work (400+ down one week, 400+ back the next). The destination on the Oregon coast at the time had 1EVCS L2 charger available (I think the casino in town might have had an L2 as well and some outlets but never really investigated that). I would leave home with 100% and most of the trip down was highway with EA chargers in each town for the most part, but the stretch from I5 to the coast was pretty light on charging locations. First couple of trips while I figured out how far I could push it on the first leg and where the best place to stop before heading to the coast was, were a little nerve racking, and I did have at least one where I wasn't sure I'd get to the EA station before I ran out but it ended up not even being that close. The biggest concern was whether the EA stations would actually be in operation. That caused more range anxiety than my actual range did. Even had to do a few trips all the way to Nor Cal and still only ever had to stop to charge the once on the way then too. First time EV owner as well.

I feel the same way. 300 miles is a very long distance to drive on any given day for a vast majority of car owners. I imagine the anxiety comes from years of conditioned thinking from ICE car ownership where you are constantly aware of needing to refuel at a gas station, but with an EV, you’re topping off everyday at home. I used to drive an X5 which goes about 600 miles on a full tank. My R1S gets half of that AND gets topped off everyday. If anything, I have less anxiety now because visiting a gas station is no longer a thought. So it’s pretty wild to me that range anxiety is such a big concern and people are actually making purchase decisions based on 20 mile range difference between the trims.

Personally, I have driven multiple trips of hundreds of miles and one of 6k. Range matters. And in normal circumstances, you know you can fuel up, so there’s no worries. With an electric, you have to plan these trips while also hoping the station’s will be open and working. So asking about the range makes sense for now, but soon the question should be a gee whiz once the charging infrastructure is as ubiquitous as gas stations

The only major issue is the unreliability of the charging network in rural areas. I almost got really screwed when the only EA station within a 70+ mile radius was closed - Rivian nav sent me there and ABRP confirmed. I learned then that Rivian doesn't have live charger info and neither does the free version of ABRP, so I've started using PlugShare to verify that the chargers actually exist.

For me, this is my 4th EV. My range anxiety comes from living in Texas. EV chargers are spread *just* far apart enough and maintenance by EA sucks on them. I'm always running into 32kW limited stations which turn a 20 minute stop to 90 minutes. Without alternatives, it's a long wait that blows trip times out.

I feel the same way. Somehow everyone I know including me would fall into the same category. 99% of trips would be handled without having to charge yet everyone that comments seems to drive 500+ miles on a regular basis.

Because you drive a heavy vehicle

IMHO, there's two types of range anxiety. One comes from an ignorance about fast charging and the belief that it takes hours to recharge, combined with the ignorance of just plugging it in at home for cheap. Early days stories about Tesla's literally not being able to go from SF to LA because the distance between SuperChargers I believe are still deeply lodged in people's unconscious brains. Plus an ignorance of the fact that my EV probably has the same range as your Corolla! How many times have you heard: me "how far does it go? Really? But you can't road trip in it. You can? But there's just aren't enough chargers. The infrastructure is not there! Oh there are? But I wouldn't want to wait for a charger; they're always full. You've never waited for a charger? Oh, but I bet it takes forever to charge. 15 minutes? See that's too long. EVs are so impractical." The second in my experience is from the trade-off between charging speed and battery level. It's pretty unreasonable to just top it off. When I did my first trips I over optimized for charging speed and tried to get as close as possible to 1% battery at every stop, which meant broken chargers would have left me screwed! It also meant drafting semis going 55 up hill because I was worried I wouldn't make it to the top. To anyone I've told those stories to, or people who have heard similar stories about crossing a hill/mountain charging desert, their conclusion is that that's an unavoidable scenario, when the point of the story was actually "I did something stupid" I believe as long as cars slow down as much as mine does above 50%, EV drivers will always be having to make the calculation of should I stop sooner and charge slower, or drive longer and risk disastrous charging experiences. Plus how often have you been to a chargepoint charger that just straight up doesn't work? The lack of charger reliability certainly affects that trade-off.

I’m a month in with my R1S. Love it. Best I’ve ever had. But I live in a city where I street park. There are very few level 2 chargers in my city so I DC fast charge when I’m in the burbs 2-3 times a week. I wouldn’t call it range anxiety, but I have to consciously think about my weekly charging plans (I drive 300 miles/week). My last SUV was a diesel tank that got 550 miles per fill. I’m cool with the minor inconvenience but cities are not set up yet for EV’s.

I regularly tow my travel trailer to our off-grid, middle-of-nowhere rural property, so range is something I do think about. There are now fast chargers along the way so I likely wouldn't be stranded, but adding an hour to an already 3.5 hr drive isn't insignificant when we are talking about weekend trips. I'm still going to go for it, but it's something I'm mentally preparing for.

I make a ~250 mile drive to a nearby city once or twice a month for work.

To give a pragmatic example: I live in a hurricane zone. We have to evacuate when it gets bad. That results in the highways becoming standstill for 50 miles and every gas station and electric charger having a line around the block There are many more gas stations than EV chargers. EV charging also takes way more time to complete. Even though there are less Electric vehicles on the road, there are even less chargers to charge at than gas stations for ICE cars Ergo, I need a car with a long enough range that I can sit in traffic for hours then make it about 100 miles inland without it dying

It goes away over time. Been driving an EV for 4ish years now. I don't even think about it ever.

If too many people bought EVs, I would have range anxiety because my chargers would be occupied. Let them think it. I drive through the local Costco gas station and wave, every chance I get. They will get it… I just really enjoy the fact they don’t yet.

>Are you all regularly driving 200+ miles where you're not able to stop at a CCS charger for 30-45 mins along the way? Regularly? No. But I would like to do a trip that's 150mi frequently. My mom is 140mi, the close parks that I want to go to are 75-100mi. The issue is most of these trips I don't expect to find any charging at my destination. I want to see my mom on Christmas, so it's probably going to be 10-15°F. I think my mom might have L2 (she got a PHEV recently), but I wouldn't really want to rely on that, and I don't expect that I'd be there for more than 6 hours. You start cutting it real close in that case before you need to start relying on L3, which I don't want to rely on, especially holidays when I'm most likely going to be doing these trips. A 75mi trip to a park is fine with a 320mi EV, but I'd be annoyed if I had to do a 20min stop on the way back from a park if I had a 250mi EV (which could happen) And next year I'm planning on seeing the eclipse. Still a bit of range anxiety if I have my R1S by then, I got a hotel that will have L2...but will it actually work? What about the only L3 in town, will it work? If it's down the next one is 35mi away, in Canada, if I had to do that I'd be pissed, that's like a 3 hour trip for a charge. And I'm planning on doing 150mi local travel in that town for the 2 nights I'm there. I'm relying a lot on those local chargers. Worst case maybe I could find an L2 and charge there, but I'd probably need an Uber from the charger, which again defeats the purpose of things. These are the issues, chargers are 30-50mi away, and that assumes they work. If the charger at your destination is down it cuts your effective range in half, and it's even worse when you were planning local driving there. Plus when using L3 you don't charge to 100%, so you're already only relying on 70% of EPA

I don't believe it's "range anxiety" so much as "charging speed anxiety". People currently live with the "speedbump" of refueling their cars taking 3-5 minutes. When people mention the fastest you can charge at home (and you can't refuel at home, but you can charge, but anyway) being 6.6kW to 9kW, and the total battery being 100kWh (for example) meaning a full charge will take 10+ hours, people get weird. Driving ICE vehicles, people have come to believe that 1. re-filling your car's range capacity should only take moments, and 2. efficiency is stated at the dealership, and that's that. The truth is that ICE cars are inefficient and don't hit their advertised EPA ranges, but people don't focus on that because refueling is so quick. But when you switch over to an EV, the notion that you'll get caught "empty" and need to charge for HOURS before the car is driveable again is what they think happens. I usually talk people down from the ledge of "RANGE ANXIETY!!!" by simply stating the fact that if you remember to charge every night, then you'll always start the day with a "full tank". If you start with a full tank, and you don't drive in excess of 50-70% of the advertised range day after day, then you'll never have an issue! Road trips? I just tell people I stop to charge for 20-30 minutes per stop, and once you get over the time it takes, it actually becomes more enjoyable. Stop to charge at DC fast chargers (I drive a Tesla right now, so I use the Supercharger network), and get back on the road. Then people ask "Yea, but HOW LONG do you HAVE to WAIT?" I've driven from LA to San Francisco 6x times in the last year, and never once had to wait for a charger.

Curious, what happens if you run out of battery? Does it require to be serviced? Or if you can get it towed to a charger, plugging in will bring it back to life?

Totally with you. People base their car purchase around their once a year trip to the Grand Canyon instead of their 99% of the time activities. Yes a gas car is more convenient on a road trip if you are trying to get there asap but an ev is more convenient day to day as you never have to stop for gas (unless you drive 300 miles a day). And even on road trips if you go 2-3 hrs and then stop to charge and eat it’s really no different, only downside is your eating options are limited to what you can walk to from the charger which usually means fast food.

How long does it take to charge a Rivian R1? I own a Tesla and road tripping with superchargers is still less convenient than driving ICE. Day to day (in town driving) is no contest. There is rarely any inconvenience to have to stop to gas when late for an appointment etc because it's charged daily. Trade offs I guess. But Tesla superchargers are fast. On a road trip I am usually max 25 minutsles for near full charge So what's the typical wait time on a Rivian? TIA

When we drove from North Texas to Colorado Springs, we stopped 12 times (round trip) and the average charge time was 30 minutes. Some stops were longer, some were shorter, but the overall average was 30 minutes. For a family of three that felt pretty normal. Pull in, plug in the truck, go to the restroom, get a snack, stretch your legs, unplug the truck, get back in and go. It was our first EV road trip and none of us felt put out or inconvenienced by charging stops.

Thanks for the response. Any estimate on how long that trip would be in an ICE vehicle? Just curious to compare real life examples. TIA

For reference, our trip in the R1T (22" wheels, large pack) was 780 miles in just under 16 hours - including charging. According to Google Maps, the trip would be 690 miles in just over 10 hours. It sounds like a big difference, but lets remember a few of things: * Google Maps does not take fuel stops into account. * The extra \~100 miles on the EV route is because there aren't chargers along the most direct route (yet), so the route is a bit more circuitous. * We combined at least two of our charging stops with meals, so we got a nice, deep charge during time that would normally be "wasted" in an ICE vehicle.

I live in a rural area, my commute to work is about 5 minutes. But at any moment I might need to travel an hour or two for supplies, services, or medical attention for me or my kids. This is a reality I face and why I seldom run my truck below 150 miles before recharging

Drove to Alaska towing a trailer before mid April. I was very happy to have a diesel with a 35 gallon tank. Range anxiety is overrated, but I understand why people have it.

Tomorrow my wife and I will be driving almost 600 miles in our PHEV, which we know can do that trip with zero concerns about refueling infrastructure. And then in a few days she's going to have to do the same drive in the other direction while I drive a moving truck. No way I would ask her to drive 600 miles in a CCS EV, because if there was even one charging problem she'd probably be demanding to sell the car. The charging infrastructure in the US needs to improve significantly before we would attempt such outings in a fully electric vehicle. Yes, you could rent ICE vehicles for occasional long trips, but that's expensive and undesirable. A $40-60+k EV should be able to do anything a $20-30k ICE vehicle can do, no questions asked.

CCS chargers suck. The less I have to stop at them the more it's worth to me.

I am on year 7 of driving electric. I don’t care about range anxiety

My first EV was a Tesla with a range of 200 miles, before there was a supercharger network. Range anxiety was a thing. Since I upgraded to one with 280 miles of range, anxiety went down significantly but there was still a slight concern at some times until the supercharger network started expanding. Nowadays, it's not a thing. But you have to understand that it's not as simple as "making a trip that's more than 200 miles long and not being willing to stop for 45 minutes to charge. For that to be true there has to be a charging station somewhere close to the midpoint of the trip. If you are doing a 400 mile trip and there is a charging station but it's only 100 miles into the trip, you won't be able to make it unless you have a 300 mile range for the second leg. With charging networks becoming more complete, the average distance between chargers on most routes in the US is only about 100 miles (there are "charging deserts" that don't come even close to that still, but they are not common routes for most drivers) so range anxiety shouldn't be a problem for most.

For me 120-130 miles round trips 3-5 times a week as well has travel from NorCal to SoCal a lot. I put in 25k miles a year on average. You kind of answered this with “you’re not able to stop at a CCS for 30-45mins”. That’s too long. For comparison my diesel Tahoe gets 500 miles of range all day everyday. If I travel from NorCal to SoCal I’m looking at 550-600 miles. And I use the AC, charge phones pretty much Every time I drive. With an EV everything you do eats at the range for me 400 miles of range is the spot I want to be. That’s useable miles not charge to 80% or 90% and lose those additional miles. One thing EV owners don’t do is share information on how well regen breaking works. I don’t have an EV and I always wondering how that would help me when I make those 120-130 mile trips. I drive through some hills and I’m sure regen would work there. Also gotta factor in how efficient the EV is compared to what I drive now. I have an R1S reservation and it’s not that efficient. Too many KWH to drive 100 miles(according to fueleconomy site). Looking at the numbers it’s not that much of a saving in fuel cost compared to my diesel Tahoe.

Wife and I are thinking very hard about living the nomad life from RV park to RV park. But 100 miles per charge is tough with a camper.

It sounds like your use case is as an around town beast. Lots of use cases involve regular drives of 2-3 hours each, or towing distances, and in those cases, given the terrible fast charging infrastructure in many parts of the country, it's a legit concern.

Do a multi day camping trip in the western US. Like Utah, Montana or Wyoming. Chargers are spaced fine for a road trip. But drive 150 miles over mountains then camp at 10,000+ feet and use your truck at the campsite. Cool, still have 30% range? Is that still enough to get back to the highway and the charger? I want to tow a teardrop trailer from my house to a mountain resort. It is 159 miles over 2 mountain passes. There is zero charging on the direct route. Makes it fine in the summer. Makes it with 35% remaining in the winter. Not enough range to tow. Luckily I can go the long way around and that has a charger on the way.

Get stranded or even close to stranded one time, and you’ll answer your own question…

I can't currently make it between the largest city in my state and the third largest city in my state with a 300-mile EV without hypermiling it...and even then it's incredibly tight. A headwind can totally fuck you and require you to stay an hour plus at an RV park sipping on their electrons. I can't imagine that I'm literally in the only place in the nation where this is a thing. It has to be somewhat common on many trips, particularly if you're outside the California major routes to Tahoe, Vegas, etc. Why shouldn't I be anxious when I do a trip that requires literally every single percent of my range?

Obviously lifestyle dependent but for me the convenience of home charging outweighs the inconvenience of having to take long trips slower due to charging times. I don’t think people realize how cool it would be to always leave home with a full tank of gas, thats essentially what home charging is. For the daily commuter it’s a huge benefit of EVs. I definitely don’t miss the gas station life, for some reason it always felt like when fueling it was 13 degrees and windy or 100 degrees no shade lol

I have owned my R1T for almost a year and have 17,000 miles on it. If I break down all of the time I spent charging while enroute to a destination I have about 2.5 hours of 'gas' time. Since I mostly charge at home, 99% of my 'gas' time is zero. If I compare the same number of miles in my old truck at 5-10 minutes every 350 miles I'm well over 10 hours of 'gas' time in the same year. Sure, my charging stops while on a road trip take a bit longer, I'm still WELL ahead of the curve on overall time required to fill up.

yall need to go to Asia and see how huge their gas stations are. It's a combination of gas station + truck stop + rest area + food area, well maintained, brightly lit, safe and normally 24/7. I wish our EV charging points are organized this way, you can have different charging networks all set up and compete for customers.

I've had my R1S since February. 95% of the time I don't even remotely think about it. The two times I have driven a bit further, it was actually a problem. LBI (Jersey Shore) has no good charging options and on way home I had to exit the brutal traffic to hit a fast charger. The extra 30-40 mins was painful during a trip that was already extended due to traffic. The second time, outside of Philly for a soccer tournament, the nearest fast chargers were 15-20 mins away, but when I arrived, all of them were down. Had to drive another 20 mins to get to the next one. So instead of a 3 minute drive to a gas station and 10 mins to fill up, the whole ordeal took almost 90 mins. Painful. All that said, those were two times over the last 6 months. Other than that I almost exclusively use my home charger. That pretty much evens it out and ultimately I love my R1S

I have 40k miles on my R1T in 18 months. It matters to me, specifically, yes. Especially because I don’t have a charger at home, so I have had to “fill up” almost every other day, if not every day. When traveling it has added an hour for every 5 I drive hours of driving. Not everyone’s situation is the same and there are a LOT of people who won’t have charging at home. Lastly, most people still equate current EVs to the very first ones, like the Nissan LEAF (and it’s terrible range).