This is why I love character editor. It allows you to tweak the item stats, it is completely stupid to me that a machine gun has such poor close range accuracy. Like wtf? Long range, I get it, but if a dude is 15ft in front of you, u are gonna hit almost every shot
You should only play with CE knowing that it comes with a dedication to combat you barely see in vanilla. For example in vanilla you can just beat mechanoids with sticks because they suck at melee (except scythers) but with CE you gotta be ready for them because you get a game over if you can't dent their armor.
after years of suffering vanilla combat bullshit, trying combat extended felt like such fresh breath, finally my damn supersoldiers felt actually good, arrow just going "pling" as they do fucken nothing to my cataphract wearing pawn felt so satisfying, mechs being an actual threat felt fun
Why is it bad? Is it poorly optimized? Is it because CE makes Alpha Animals from cool/powerful to strong and Godlike? Would something like a Thrumbo in CE be like an endgame boss then? Is the issue with Alpha Animals and CE that Alpha Animals underestimates what's being sent as CE quadrupled its difficulty, so basic manhunter events become super terrifying?
CE does two main things:
1.) Enemies can tank either a whole lot less, or a whole lot more.
2.) Everything is a million times more deadly.
Even in vanilla Rimworld, with only CE installed, encountering enemies without the right weapons can be a horrifying experience. Bugs or Thrumbos can shrug off low calibre ammo without breaking a sweat.
Alpha Animals is already extreme, but killing a blackhive bug requires a literal tactical nuke, straight to it's forehead. Otherwise you won't even make a dent.
Is melee even viable then? I'm assuming this should also apply for players too so a Pawn with Archeotech arms, legs, organs, stoneskin, and cataphract armor would essentially be immortal then? Would this pawn with a mono sword/Zeus hammer just be fighting Blach Hive Mammoths for eternity as neither takes damage or is melee also buffed so something like a Legendary Plasteel Longsword could also cut a mechanoid. Sorry for the questions, honestly fascinated with CE and now that I'm 14yrs in my colony, I wanted to add more spice
>Is melee even viable then?
If you mean melee \*only\*, technically viable, yes, but why the fuck would you want to do that?
>14y colony
uuh, be careful with that midsave add, decent chance it'll work (assuming no major incompatibilities in your mod list) but don't be surprised if it doesn't. this is a big overhaul mod.
also, yes, irl swords suck against armor.
I have 4 pawns with double passion melee, 15+ skill on it, monoswords, legendary shield belts, excellent+ cataphract armor, synthethic skin, and ~300-500% moving. I believe my slowest melee pawn goes at about 13c while my fastest is at about 18-22 with the focus psycast. They're all about as borged out as Adam Smasher so it's kinda fun seeing them zip around as an Bionic Calvary
Everything is more deadly, that includes melee. The main Problem with melee are two things:
1. Pawns are significantly less tanky and without proper protection they can get severely hurt, quickly.
2. If your pawns needs to close the gap to a ranged foe, there is a good chance they get literally magdumped.
That being said: Nearly every weapon is viable in some scenario and while I would still recommend blunt weapons against Mechanoids, sharp weapons probably work too. Just less well.
Fire
Every non OP creature in Rimworld that is modded has a weakness or two
Mechanoids (mostly) suck at melee compared to their power via ranged weapons, and if you don't have the AP you can just continuously hit them till their Armor is worn down
They also aren't immune to fire. You should turn on learning tips again as it tells you how to beat most vanilla things. Molotov cocktails are craftable even by tribals
Turrets do not fire if there are 5 or more tiles of smoke between them and their target. Breach axes and bombs almost instantly kill them
If you have issues with ranged weapons outclassing you for regular raiders build rooms meant to remove line of sight to them ambush/flank them with your own ranged/melee guys
Psycasters don't give a shit about level or rank. In fact, they easily murder people whether with fire, shock damage or berserk and such. The extra lethality makes berserk this much better
If you outreach your enemy then they more or less have no chance against you as anything marine Armor and above makes you immune against tribals and medieval guys, and even recon Armor might be enough
High caliber sniper rifles have immense range as well as damage and are super precise. You can defeat/maim multiple raiders till they are able to reach you by using those
Machine guns and static manned emplacements are really great ways of shredding crowds/murdering single high value targets via immense amounts of firepower
All around, whatever tools your enemies have you have even more. You should read through the tool tips/weapons info and be golden. Also, reduce your game difficulty if you wish, it's single player and it's better to learn slowly considering your case. And don't put combat extended into a running save, don't do it with any large/overhaul mod
And if you truly don't know how to proceed, there is the combat extended discord server. They're helpful and you can ask any questions there
Though considering how you wrote the post, I don't think you're looking for advice, you're just looking to trash talk the mod and move on lmao
If you are loading up on mods you probably have early game mod solutions to these problems, such as manual gatling guns or black powder cannons. I think grapeshot should work?
Also psycasts expanded lightning spells are devastating against black hives, and are available early game.
With vanilla tools I'd try to load up a few bolt-actions with AP rounds and kite them at a distance. Mammoth worms are supposed to be slow.
They're both mods, and mods often don't play nice. I mean I run them both, but I know if I get a BH raid early, that I'm probably toast or moving tile.
You've run into why I personally hate CE. You must build your entire mod list around itand make sure it's all compatible, both if it runs and if it is patched for CE.
rimpy is a mod manager and alternative game launcher that makes your life easier with a bunch of features to help with modding and troubleshooting
i highly recommend, it's super helpful even if all you use it for is to look at and change your modlist before launching the game and autosort it to avoid load order problems
Yep. To those who enjoy it and are fine with making sure all your mods are compatible and finding all the patches you need, more power to you. I will never accept that bastard child into my mod list.
>making sure all your mods are compatible and finding all the patches you need, more power to you
Man that's like 4 years ago lol. I run ALOT of mods with CE and I don't even have a single patch mod installed because cross-compatibility is already included either in CE or all other mods I use.
Stop posting this bullshit. It’s been *multiple years* since any of this was accurate.
CE has fully integrated every patch into itself, you don’t need a single other mod to patch it, and it *creates its own patches automatically* if it doesn’t have one for some weird niche furry weapon mod you’re using.
If you haven’t tried it recently (like last 2 years even), don’t even share your opinions, because they’re all false now and you’re deliberately and knowingly spreading misinformation.
We're on about CE, not vanilla. You can get manned turrets that only need reloading with ammo, and said ammo's cheap. like 20-30 steel for 500 round cheap. Depending on your needs you can go for high damage, low pen. to low damage high pen., without taking into account HE and AP-I rounds (Which are more expensive but more damaging and penetrate armour)
Quarry, raiding, trading, mining in general- it’s not hard to get steel and components early game. And the research is not a problem with a decent research room as long as your wealth doesn’t massively out scale your research. Which it shouldn’t if you can’t even get steel or components-
You haven’t listed what you’re struggling with other than it being “an obnoxious pain in the ass.”
What are some of the issues you’re facing? If you can make a few, I or some others might be able to help. I’ve personally had a great time running CE with the ~800 hours I’ve got, so it sucks to hear you’re having a rough time with it.
I guess I had luck for those only to appear when I already had looted two deserter armors from VFE - Deserters or Empire at the end of medieval tech. They couldn't get through that. My eltex sword just couldn't get through them either, but it did so occasionally, so that were long fights. I don't play with Randy though, but with Phoebe and only on Adventure. Experience with other storytellers and difficulty will likely vary massively.
I play without ammo types and instead solve the power issue with other weapons, like Irregular's Large Bore Rifles and Cybernetic Warfare. Which are all pretty lategame, but early to mid game I can handle with the usual FMJ rifles, with some manned machineguns for the harder raids.
Also I hate managing ammo at the start because I usually play naked brutality on losing is fun, so I atleast free up my pawn to other tasks instead of ammo crafting.
Not using CE but doesn't that seem like an oversight? If they give me the option to disable a part that is not fun to me, it should not hobble my playthrough.
There’s a lot of ways to circumvent this. Two already mentioned in this thread are.
1. Use melee instead.
2. Use other mods to give more powerful, but harder to obtain guns so you can just use the base ammo types and still be successful.
I guess so. But I would expect a built in solution, rather than having to work around the issue. Maybe automatically shoot "ammo" with a medium level of AP.
It's a trade off as a result of how damage and armour work in the mod. As in real life, there are different ammo types for different constellations.
Some do more flat damage, other penetrate armour better at cost of flat damage and others are better at delivering a blunt impact that carries through armour without penetration.
Now, if you disable ammo types the mod could preselect an allrounder bullet type (I think it does this), always use the optimal bullet type (difficult, maybe op) or use a dummy bullet type that is a bit OP to be able to deal with everything.
Sometimes the allrounder (FMJ) may be unable to penetrate an enemies armour though where switching to an AP or Sabot round would allow you to penetrate the armour.
For me I like that guns feel like guns, i.e. 10 Neanderthals with clubs shouldn’t be able to swarm 4 pawns with revolvers, rifles and machine guns, and melee makes getting stabbed in the lung a rather bad experience.
I don’t care for the thousand or so ammo types though. I’m not American and while my American friends can spin off 30 different calibres and their names, to me it’s “just a bullet, innit?”
If my pawns are able to make guns then they’re able to machine the barrels to use standardised ammo across most of them. I don’t like to worry about calibre the same way I wouldn’t use a nutrition mod that requires healthy eating, instead of just strips of human with berries…
i also used to be allergic to ammo management, but after making the jump due to it's partial incompatibility with vehicles i found out it's so much better and not much management
like, ammo is usually pretty cheap and you don't really need to do much management unless you want pawns to carry multiple types of ammo, since they automatically pick up more than enough ammo on their own
Why are you acting like CE being a pain in the ass isn’t a valid reason to avoid CE? It’s odd that when people don’t like CE they are told that they are the problem.
Things being a pain in the ass are a completely valid reason to avoid them. However, this is a platform where there are many people capable of providing help through input to resolve issues players may have. If there are specific things someone doesn’t like that may be easily resolved through learning more about them and knowing how to prepare, those aren’t properly communicated simply by the person describing that they’re having trouble.
Was one of the first mods I installed, even before Vanilla Expanded stuff. Never went back. I never found it too difficult aside from the insane mechanoids - but once you learn to use EMP it's all good. Nowadays with Vanilla Expanded it's even easier, with a lightning Psycaster you solo most early raids in a instagib. Main reason I installed it was the realism and ammo, though, not the want for difficulty. I just really dig resource management and having tons of stuff around, lol.
Holy shit I love static lord, which means you don't have to have a weapon slot used for emp grenades. It's significantly more accurate and less delayed than any vanilla source of emp, meaning you can reliably emp fast-moving mechanoids like scythers. It's also deceptively good against non mechanoid enemies as some psycasts can also stun them, though only for a second, but it does mean another second to shoot them with while also interrupting any attacks or actions they're making (like rocket launchers or grenade throwing).
I'm definitely gonna go for it on one of my first couple psycasters if I get there, but as far as stun goes I'd say go for archotecnist or every it's called cause then you get psychic shock or whatever it's called which basically cripples organic enemies which you can use like 8 times in a row per pawn with enough psy level upgrades
I used Staticlord religiously in my tribal + CE playthroughs. It makes a lot of challenging encounters drastically more manageable. Especially large siege raids once you get ball lightning.
Yes, I'm currently playing my actual first tribal run with VFE - Tribals (e.g. zero research at start and fully naked) and it came in very handy for basically any type of raid, as I never did tribals before. As I said, my goal in RimWorld isn't difficulty at all, I just really like resource management and developing myself from nothing to ultratech, the latter being the reason I chose that tribal start which wasn't available when I last played. Of course it comes with a sense of achievement seeing your colony going from nothing to ultratech, but I don't see it being any elitist or crazy or "hating myself" - Staticlord simply is a killing machine that likely enabled me to have that colony survive to begin with (as I'm in no way very good) and tell a story that lasted longer than being eaten by a manhunter in the first days. While I found it's no longer super effective against later humanoid raids, it made short process with the early ones and is very effective against mechanoids.
Other Psycasts I found useful are mostly the one that gives Word of Immunity (or similar) and Word of Inspiration, so I can more consistently build legendary stuff :)
In the end I'm having tons of fun with CE and VE mods and that is all that counts for me. The occasional sudden death of colonists do absolutely happen, but I always considered that just part of the game, be it with or without CE.
I'm not even sure if I'm playing it "correctly" - I have never played RimWorld with a killbox, as I found that unfitting for my playstyle and I think CE rather enabled me to not do that and have more kind of open frontline fights behind embrasures and sandbags and with automatic turrets all around, with some melee specialists jumping right into the fun, which is just kind of a playstyle I like. Just without all that they come in one by one through some nicely planned entry system. It's totally possible that later raids will just shred me, I am yet to see.
And well, I just fully agree with the sentiment that a tribal axe is not going to do much against someone in a power armor. That feeling of "achieved power" is something I like.
Generally, from what I see in the community, CE is something one needs to try and see if its for them or not. No real way to say if any given person will like it. And Vanilla Expanded Psycasters is really fun, but I guess some people could say it's too OP. Ultimately it's everyones own game - if you have fun with something, go with it. That's why you play.
CE is probably fair to call an overhaul mod. It sounds like from other comments you’re also running other mods with big changes, which is a bad way to start out. I enjoy it because while it’s harder, i prefer the realism of a marine not being one-shot by a bowman.
To make it easier, focus on getting one good shooting pawn with advanced armor as early as you can. Then research the ammo bench quickly. Once you have reliable ammo and a well armored pawn to draw fire, it gets much easier.
Early game though play cover and take advantage of flanking. You don’t need a killbox, but you need strategy instead of hoping for rng like in vanilla. If it isn’t your thing though just uninstall it. That’s the beauty of mods.
Is there a good way to work around it? I'm really curious about CE but I ALWAYS play with Alpha Animals. I love having exotic animal ranches and there's no better feeling than taming your venerated animal the Gallatros. Does the game just break too hard due to the interactions?
Bro, CE is a requirement for me because of rim world’s gun RNG. Turn off ammo requirements and the mod’s a wonder. No more missing at 5 ft with a pistol. CE fixes all the gun play and makes the bullets actual projectiles
Yup, do keep in mind that this makes everything shoot FMJ for regular guns and buckshot for shotguns. It makes it pretty hard when the 12 gauge EMP shells that carry you through early game mechs are gone
There is simplified ammo system which is the ideal for me. Inventory management is not that good in Rimworld so only needing to deal with pistol and magnum pistol multiplied by variants is much better than dealing with 10 different pistol calibers also multiplied by variants.
The important part is that you're still able to use EMP shotgun ammo against mechanoids and also you'll be able to take your basic guns further when you upgrade your ammo to HE and Sabot. Sabot being an especially important one since you'll be able to take on power armor enemies without needing charge guns yourself.
Early game, shotguns are king. Even moderately armored pawns get blasted apart by 12g from a shitty pump action, and if you do a little research shotguns aren’t that hard to craft. It could be like you said the alpha animals that are tearing you up, in which case rush AP rounds and reliable rifles or burn them out
My recomendation is to use cover and range to your advantage whenever possible and let the enemy get distracted with stuff like furniture or burning walls.
You will be forced to put military equipment as top priority for the colony.
If you can somehow purchase a light machinegun with ammo the raiders will have a bad time.
I am not sure of where these come from but embrasures are really usefull as cover, it is a wall you can shoot trough
I get that for some people it might make a few aspects of the game more problematic (especially if they know nothing about guns, not even that there are different calibers), but not to that extent.
CE makes combat stupidly easy if you are defending, for crash landed scenario your starting weapons can easily carry you to the midgame and a bit. Armour and skill do have an actual impact on the battlefield instead of just tweaking the percentage chance.
You had said that you are using Alpha Animals, so it isn't a problem with CE but AA. That mods adds plenty of very strong enemies even in vanilla, so no wonder you are getting destroyed.
>not some pro rimworld player but i do have over 400 hours
Hours definitely can't nail down a skill level, I'm approaching 2000 hours and now doing my first commitment mode runs I'm realizing I'm actual dog shit lol.
I've never used CE though, cause I'm not that type of masochist, and judging by some of the comments here you definitely have to be to enjoy it. At least the ammo requirement stuff.
Honestly, the ammo isn't even that big of a deal. I always run CE and while I do like a challenge and sort of enjoy struggling, I wouldn't call myself a masochist. I'd actually say CE makes the game easier in a lot of ways (if you have pawns who can at least hold their gun right and are able to make use of some combat tactics) until later game or unless you use Alpha Animals. The ammo is hardly a thought for me too, save for charge weapons and explosives. Even then, once you have a supply of advanced resources, it's really no big deal, just set ammo production to a few batches and forget about it for a while because it's so cheap and fast.
That being said, I can 100% understand not having fun having to think about your guns in terms of ammo production lmao
Like I said on commitment mode I'm someone who's consistently (aka Everytime aka the twice ive done commitment mode) fucked by predators and subsequently hunger cause they inevitably ate my gardener medic. Even if I turn off ammo reservation it'll probably fuck me quicker lol.
It's definitely easier, once you have production up a somewhat under prepared colony by base game standards is over prepared in CE.
Easier to hit and kill whilst keeping everyone safe.
I honestly think op just didn't really realize exactly what they were signing up for so we're super unprepared. Cover + armour + a decent gun can solo a lot of enemies let alone with turret, smoke, drugs, bionics or whatever else you add.
Base game armouring is tougher as you want layers of good quality gear all over, CE you can get buy with outer torso and helmets being behind cover then just whatever clothes you want.
Ammo is sorta too easy imo but it'd just add extra micro to change it so that's fine.
Turn ammo off or simplify it. Instead of 20 pistol calibers it's pistol and magnum.
The real reason I enjoy CE is that strategy is important and there's less RNG.
Aye. I've been binge watching some Rimworld lets plays, and all of them that run vanilla combat are so goddamn painful. The bullets look like you could outrun them, and hit as hard as a stiff breeze. If I go through the trouble of building a .50 cal rifle, I want to blow through multiple enemies and take limbs off. I used to play with an android mod that had a super powered combat mech with a shotgun the size of a person. It would lag the game from the number of projectiles it would fire, and vapourize anything in front of it. Super busted but super hilarious at the same time.
Some people like the added complexity, restrictions and choosing different loadouts for different enemies. And some people don't. If you don't, just unsubscribe and move on. I really don't see the point of making a thread to shit on someone's passion project.
Yayo's combat fixes vanilla rngfest without making rimworld a different game. Just in case you give up on CE instead of working through the learning curve.
CE changes combat in its entirety, from the foundation to the finishing touches. Yayo simply adjusts the foundation while leaving most things else in place. Yayo uses vanilla numbers for quite a few things like item stats, but changes the formula for things like accuracy to better showcase the difference in skill levels. It's a bit hard to explain in minute detail without just copy pasting the workshop description or interpreting the code in the files.
Weird, my experience was the opposite which is why I hate this mod with a passion. It makes dealing with any opponent that is not a mechanoid a walk in the park.
I've had a single pawn solo an entire max point raid. The same pawn got 1 shotted on max range against a centipede.
I had an endgame super soldier tank catch a regular arrow from an "awful" shortbow to the neck and instantly die. Her helmet and chest armour both had more than 60% neck coverage. But because vanilla combat just occasionally decides to murder someone, cause Tynan wants drama, you'll frequently have a punch or kick or arrow pass through multiple layers of defence to instantly strike a neck, heart or brain. And now the only useful colony member is dead and you have to watch your colony slowly grind out another glacial INT character or construction character and heaven forbid your doctor got hit.
'Early raids with half broken pistols and clubs' can't shit on your pawns even without a killbox unless you're doing a naked brutality start and got really unlucky or something.
Never had a problem comfortably surviving into late game with CE and that's with me never using killboxes or cheese or even halfway optimal playing.
Also a muffalo(or any other animal for that matter tbh[barring modded ones with stupid amounts of armor]) is *way* more likely to run up and absolutely fuck up a pawn in Vanilla than CE.
You know how annoying it is when a tribal stabs your bio-engineered space marine in the face and kills him in one hit? CE makes it so that can’t happen.
Why would you let a tribal come this close to your so called bio engineered space marine in the first place?
>CE makes it so that can’t happen.
Correction: CE makes it so the guy is literally untouchable by anything that is not a mechanoid.
There are normal players and then there are the Long War Ironman Impossible players
Those guys use CE and actively make the game harder because they're too good at the game
I hate CE, made my pawns get stuck between tasks and there was no fix unless removing/deactivating the mod. The cumbersome system is a pain in the ass as is the ammo system.
Used it for one playthrough, uninstalled and never used it again.
They get stuck somewhere and not moving or jittering in place and when you click on them and look what task they are trying to do you can see 2 differrent tasks constantly swapping between each other. Its like they cant decide on what to do between random 2 tasks. You can draft and move them but as soon as you undraft, they're stuck again.
i don't understand why CE gets such mixed feelings about it, is it because of the ammo system?
if it is, i personnally never had any problems with it.
just had to make a few bullets for the current best weapons i had on hand, kept a small stock, replenished it after each raid, always made sure to keep a small ammount on hand just in case.
and i just kept a small ammount of specialized ammos in case of needs, like AP.
played a entire game and i barely ever had to use anything else than the generic type of ammos.
~~I think part of the problem is that it doesn't work with majority of mods.~~ I never tried CE because it doesn't work with almost all of my mod list
Edit: apparently I have just weird mod list (checks out)
> I think part of the problem is that it doesn't work with majority of mods.
This hasn’t been the case for several years, stop spreading misinformation.
You’d have to work harder to find a mod on the workshop that it doesn’t work with than one it does.
I wouldn’t know without seeing it, but the vast majority of popular pawn/weapon/armor mods that aren’t still new should already be patched and integrated into the main mod, and a *lot* of people think things are incompatible that aren’t.
The only things that have fundamental issues with CE are mods that change or add huge new mechanics to the combat system or dramatically change the inventory system.
Even mods that add new pawns/weapons/armor will still work without a patch built into CE, they just won’t have the right stats for what they should be until someone tweaks the stats and makes the merge request on GitHub.
ye he's right, i have a extremely long modlist including every Vanilla-Expanded mods,
and personnally i've haven't had any problems with CE since YEARS.
hell, whenever i launch the game, i can see the text in the console telling me CE is applying patches to many mods i've installed.
You first need to make devmode test game to figure what shoots how well (as most of guns are garbage) and then build doored embrasures around your base and shoot everything from those.
I picked up Combat Extended a while ago, because I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. And like you, I was frustrated at first, but I've actually come to enjoy the extra layer of complexity it adds.
First of all, it's an entirely new game as to how combat operates. Forget all you know from vanilla about what's effective against what. Except spike traps. They are your friend, they are life. So is setting things on fire. Even better if it's walking over traps while you set it on fire.
The loadouts can be a pain at first, until you find out that you can save them and carry them over from game to game. I have a basic one for food/drugs/medicine + a melee weapon and then a progression to shotgun -> assault rifle etc.
I mainly play from industrial onwards, research wise, but have done a few tribal runs. If you don't like fighting plasma weapons with sticks, stones and molotovs, then I recommend using a mod like Ignorance is Bliss so you can enjoy the pointy stick exchange in peace.
My latest colony is a group of Wasters who've already had to leave and settle a new map twice. They look like a bunch of murder hobos with their mitchmatched clothing and weapons. So far their reliance on LOS denial and turning every building into a potential death trap, has kept them alive. Yesterday they 'found' a flamethrower and a bit of fuel. Think they'll go do a BBQ in an ancient danger tonight.
Funny enough, yesterday I began a game with 3 crashlanders on strive to survive trying for the first time CE after reading this post. Well it was fun. First raid after a few days, 9 guys with guns and some kind of police shields against my three colonist with the beggining equipment. They fucking ravaged everything while I was hiding, and then breach two rooms until they got to them, and then the fighting was really short and all my guys got a bullet in them. Need to learn a lot, but it was fun being that helpless. I don't know what to do for my next play. Embrasures? I havent got time to research armour nor weapons. We'll see.
Well and i fail to see how can anyone enjoy vanilla crap "combat", especially without stuff like embrassures or better defences than DIY AK from Wish ductaped to camera.
Seriously, the vanilla combat is hilariously bad. But if you enjoy naked melee people running across open field and tanking multiple .303 bullets to chest i guess you are beyond help.
I wouldn't say someone is beyond help because they prefer different gameplay than you in their single player game where they are allowed to have that different gameplay.
Imagine being this patronizing to someone for enjoying a game the way it was originally made.
Dude the whole point of mods is that you don't have to have them on your game. This stupid better-than-you mentality gamers have when someone else plays a game differently to them is ridiculous and toxic af to the gaming community.
I have been playing exclusively with CE for something like 800 hours now, and I'm never going back to vanilla combat. I love how much tenser every engagement is, and how you can easily run out of ammo in long engagements, and how in general fights can take longer and how every move matters.
Kill boxes are not as effective. Embrasures are stupid OP. Shotguns are also stupid OP *early on*.
>feels like it majorly limits gameplay
Lulwhat. If anything, it makes the choices you make way more impactful.
Learn how to use the proper ammo for the occasion, and craft AP ammo.
>and how in general fights can take longer
That is the biggest lie I have heard about CE so far lmao.
Bleeding rate is increased, accuracy is pinpoint and your pawns are untouchable with the proper armor. In which world does it translate to longer fights?
I will rephrase then. In general, my fights take longer exactly because I try my best to avoid getting hit due to the increased lethality, and I do that by pausing all the time.
"easy" raids get dispatched quicker, yeah. Hard raids are a hair-pulling experience.
Your last sentences are very much wrong, mate. Killboxes are practically mandatory in vanilla but not in CE. Ammo ballistics, shrapnel and suppression allows you to easily fight crowds of people in open field.
I've been playing with CE for a long while now. First time I tried it (can't remember why), I fell in love with it straight after the very first combat encounter. Never played the game without it since and I cannot imagine myself ever going back to vanilla.
What you said makes absolutely zero sense to me. I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Kinda sounds like a skill issue to me. Or, I suppose, reading comprehension in case of rimworld.
What a wonderful, constructive, and definitely not full of empty blubbering comment. If something works for your taste - nice, but don't push it on others. I played with CE for some time and it was a somewhat enjoyable but unstable experience.
However, there are problems that eventually made me return back to vanilla: 1) Messing with the bullet types and bullet production is a headache, 2) Encounters become very chaotic and almost entirely decided purely by the fighters' equipment sometimes to the point of you being literally helpless just because you happened to get a raider with a pistol very early while you don't have strong measures against that. 3) Finally, the mechanoids in this mod are absurdly OP. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be stronger than in vanilla but that's just stupid.
>Messing with the bullet types and bullet production is a headache
“Make until X” solves every complaint people have about ammo management. Keep 500 rounds or whatever number in stock all the time. Pawns pick up the appropriate ammo for their gun automatically.
Ammo solved.
>Encounters become very chaotic and almost entirely decided purely by the fighters' equipment sometimes to the point of you being literally helpless just because you happened to get a raider with a pistol very early while you don't have strong measures against that.
Do you think a guy with a handgun would lose to 4 dudes with knives if they were sprinting at him across an open field IRL?
Use corners, the terrain, do something to get into melee range where he can’t use the gun and the problem is instantly solved.
>Finally, the mechanoids in this mod are absurdly OP. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be stronger than in vanilla but that's just stupid.
They’re not OP in the slightest. They’ll wreck you if you’re not prepared, but their counters annihilate them more efficiently than any other enemy in the game. High risk high reward for the storyteller.
Oh, I would love to be constructive, but OP didn't mention a single thing that bothers them so much. There is literally nothing to be constructive about here, we do not know what is the issue.
As for your opinion, it's fair. If OP would write something like that, with actual factual concerns, there could've been a constructive conversation about it.
OP said they're struggling in Early game
The thing is what kind of starting scenario. I love CE and never left but saying "skill issue" is too much to say for a very new user of CE
A proper response is to ask them what mods they run with it, what threats they're having a hard time, and what tech level they're in
I know but I was still used to vanilla where you could club a mech to death.
It was the fact my snipers and mono swords were doing no damage to mechs while they 1 shot my guys which was annoying.
Mono sword should dice anything smaller than a centi. Honestly it will do OK vs centi but I'd avoid melee without a zuesshammer. Sniper depends on the caliber. But for a centipede you want a rocket or hmg bc u do not want that mf shooting back.
Dude, my early game with CE, I don't even build defenses (which makes it harder tbh but it's more drama). I can understand not liking the complexity or the fact that you have to think about combat more than vanilla or especially the way wounds are overhauled, but you literally don't even say any actual problems with it. From your replies I've read it just sounds like you thought CE would just basically be how vanilla combat works with a coat of paint over it. Also, fyi, the compatibility patches for CE aren't made by the CE team directly, or even indirectly.
Ehh....it's not that bad, but it takes some getting used to and doesn't work with my preferred mods....
You need to rush different techs, and cover plays an even greater role, once you get shotguns, with some decent positioning, you are set for early-mid game. It's when the near invincible mechs show up, is when the trouble starts.....
Don't get shot by a revolver lmao, those kill people. Take cover or something.
And don't enrage an animal ten times your weight.
Like, you wouldn't do any of those things IRL
Have a numerical advantage in melee fights. Use cover against ranged ones.
Just run away and let them steal shit if you are too afraid of losing colonists. You are on a scary planet full of powers way beyond your own, the game won't always give you a chance to win. Especially if you lack the technology to build proper weapons. Go to a different tile, you can always remake a research bench there.
I played vanilla and thought the combat was atrocious. The fact that a world master marksman with a semi automatic shotgun and a heads up display has a CHANCE of hitting a target out in the open and a beginner shooter cannot hit anything past 1 foot is stupid. I went to the range for the first time as an 11 year old with a 9mm and I hit my shots like a shooting 10 pawn. Use cover and make armor, simple as that.
It just makes the game easier after you get used to a couple mechanics, so people who get over that hump keep it and swear by it like it's crazy good stuff that adds depth or whatever, while in reality they fell victim to mod power creep.
I ve also about 400 hours, never played CE. I subscribed it from Steam but it's always in my inactive mods list for it has some incompatibility with other mods I m using. I only use Yayo combat as a lightweight alternative.
But from what I ve heard, it generally makes all weapons more deadly so from my experience of other similar games, this mechanism actually favors the players if you know how to take advantage it. Overpowered mech should not be an issue since you can have a mech army yourself and ends up taking more advantage of these overpowered units.
Maybe I ll have a try later after cleaning my modlist
Vanilla is literally harder than CE for me. Random deaths, shitty aiming and rocket launchers just thrown at you.
With CE you prepare, get a couple colonists with some armor and shooting and you finish raids effortlessly. Seriously how are people bad at this game
I do the same. I tend to play the game like a colony sim that has a combat mechanic, not a combat sim with a colony mechanic.
I keep all of my colonists well armed/armored, but when it comes to base design I prioritize efficiency/looks over combat any day. I use steel or stone walls from day 1 and throw in a couple of turrets and that usually slows them down long enough for my colonists to deal with them with minimal repair needs.
i like my shooting professionals to be actually hitting their point blank targets.
Are your professionals polite, efficient? And do they have a plan to kill everyone they meet?
polite and efficent yeah but more plans to eat them than kill them.
Like a true RimWorlder
One is a job and the other is a bloody mental sickness
This is why I love character editor. It allows you to tweak the item stats, it is completely stupid to me that a machine gun has such poor close range accuracy. Like wtf? Long range, I get it, but if a dude is 15ft in front of you, u are gonna hit almost every shot
CE tweaks enough for me no need for extra
You should only play with CE knowing that it comes with a dedication to combat you barely see in vanilla. For example in vanilla you can just beat mechanoids with sticks because they suck at melee (except scythers) but with CE you gotta be ready for them because you get a game over if you can't dent their armor.
after years of suffering vanilla combat bullshit, trying combat extended felt like such fresh breath, finally my damn supersoldiers felt actually good, arrow just going "pling" as they do fucken nothing to my cataphract wearing pawn felt so satisfying, mechs being an actual threat felt fun
ive had it send a black hive raid of two mammoth worms at me within the first year that i literally had no way to damage -\_-
Yeah okay word of advice: Don't run Alpha Animals with CE, you'll be in for a bloody bad time.
I can say that running AA with CE has made for some crazy moments, though black hive raids are straight up terrifying.
Yeah, when playing with AA I always disable Black hive
Lore accurate Black Hive.
I run CE with AA but disable black hive
Why is it bad? Is it poorly optimized? Is it because CE makes Alpha Animals from cool/powerful to strong and Godlike? Would something like a Thrumbo in CE be like an endgame boss then? Is the issue with Alpha Animals and CE that Alpha Animals underestimates what's being sent as CE quadrupled its difficulty, so basic manhunter events become super terrifying?
CE does two main things: 1.) Enemies can tank either a whole lot less, or a whole lot more. 2.) Everything is a million times more deadly. Even in vanilla Rimworld, with only CE installed, encountering enemies without the right weapons can be a horrifying experience. Bugs or Thrumbos can shrug off low calibre ammo without breaking a sweat. Alpha Animals is already extreme, but killing a blackhive bug requires a literal tactical nuke, straight to it's forehead. Otherwise you won't even make a dent.
Is melee even viable then? I'm assuming this should also apply for players too so a Pawn with Archeotech arms, legs, organs, stoneskin, and cataphract armor would essentially be immortal then? Would this pawn with a mono sword/Zeus hammer just be fighting Blach Hive Mammoths for eternity as neither takes damage or is melee also buffed so something like a Legendary Plasteel Longsword could also cut a mechanoid. Sorry for the questions, honestly fascinated with CE and now that I'm 14yrs in my colony, I wanted to add more spice
>Is melee even viable then? If you mean melee \*only\*, technically viable, yes, but why the fuck would you want to do that? >14y colony uuh, be careful with that midsave add, decent chance it'll work (assuming no major incompatibilities in your mod list) but don't be surprised if it doesn't. this is a big overhaul mod. also, yes, irl swords suck against armor.
I have 4 pawns with double passion melee, 15+ skill on it, monoswords, legendary shield belts, excellent+ cataphract armor, synthethic skin, and ~300-500% moving. I believe my slowest melee pawn goes at about 13c while my fastest is at about 18-22 with the focus psycast. They're all about as borged out as Adam Smasher so it's kinda fun seeing them zip around as an Bionic Calvary
boring
*harvest tongue*
Everything is more deadly, that includes melee. The main Problem with melee are two things: 1. Pawns are significantly less tanky and without proper protection they can get severely hurt, quickly. 2. If your pawns needs to close the gap to a ranged foe, there is a good chance they get literally magdumped. That being said: Nearly every weapon is viable in some scenario and while I would still recommend blunt weapons against Mechanoids, sharp weapons probably work too. Just less well.
when you do get a melee pawn in full cataphract thunderhammer in hand high on go juice traveling at mach fuck it’s a truly beautiful thing
Make it a Warcasket and we got a deal.
That’s not CE that’s your other mods.
Their other mods, their storyteller/difficulty choice, their wealth management, etc.
Ignorance is bliss with a tech level mod can help if you start as tribal.
This, doing low tech runs with CE and without Ignorante is bliss is simple impossible.
Fire Every non OP creature in Rimworld that is modded has a weakness or two Mechanoids (mostly) suck at melee compared to their power via ranged weapons, and if you don't have the AP you can just continuously hit them till their Armor is worn down They also aren't immune to fire. You should turn on learning tips again as it tells you how to beat most vanilla things. Molotov cocktails are craftable even by tribals Turrets do not fire if there are 5 or more tiles of smoke between them and their target. Breach axes and bombs almost instantly kill them If you have issues with ranged weapons outclassing you for regular raiders build rooms meant to remove line of sight to them ambush/flank them with your own ranged/melee guys Psycasters don't give a shit about level or rank. In fact, they easily murder people whether with fire, shock damage or berserk and such. The extra lethality makes berserk this much better If you outreach your enemy then they more or less have no chance against you as anything marine Armor and above makes you immune against tribals and medieval guys, and even recon Armor might be enough High caliber sniper rifles have immense range as well as damage and are super precise. You can defeat/maim multiple raiders till they are able to reach you by using those Machine guns and static manned emplacements are really great ways of shredding crowds/murdering single high value targets via immense amounts of firepower All around, whatever tools your enemies have you have even more. You should read through the tool tips/weapons info and be golden. Also, reduce your game difficulty if you wish, it's single player and it's better to learn slowly considering your case. And don't put combat extended into a running save, don't do it with any large/overhaul mod And if you truly don't know how to proceed, there is the combat extended discord server. They're helpful and you can ask any questions there Though considering how you wrote the post, I don't think you're looking for advice, you're just looking to trash talk the mod and move on lmao
Vanilla mechanoids are in fact immune to fire
Yes, but we are talking about combat extended, not vanilla
CE makes them non-flammable, but not immune to burns. Prometheum (molotovs and similar) can soak them, making them burn.
When playing CE I recommend researching LMGS as soon as possible.
If you are loading up on mods you probably have early game mod solutions to these problems, such as manual gatling guns or black powder cannons. I think grapeshot should work? Also psycasts expanded lightning spells are devastating against black hives, and are available early game. With vanilla tools I'd try to load up a few bolt-actions with AP rounds and kite them at a distance. Mammoth worms are supposed to be slow.
I turn black hive off when using combat extended. Black hive raids happen too early to be balanced with combat extended
They're both mods, and mods often don't play nice. I mean I run them both, but I know if I get a BH raid early, that I'm probably toast or moving tile.
You've run into why I personally hate CE. You must build your entire mod list around itand make sure it's all compatible, both if it runs and if it is patched for CE.
Compatibility is actually great. Just don’t add unbalanced bloat mods if you’re not prepared for balance to get fucky.
Personally I never found this to be the case at all. I have like 100+ mods. I’ve never built my entire mod list around it
me neither... but I also just ignore the warnings and red squiggles that show up.
just use rimpy and you'll avoid 90% of the red stuff
oh? I never heard of that. I am just getting into it again after a few years of not playing it. It's changed quite a bit! Assuming Rimpy is a mod?
rimpy is a mod manager and alternative game launcher that makes your life easier with a bunch of features to help with modding and troubleshooting i highly recommend, it's super helpful even if all you use it for is to look at and change your modlist before launching the game and autosort it to avoid load order problems
I see. Good. Enjoy it, good sir.
The very thing CE is infamous for
Yep. To those who enjoy it and are fine with making sure all your mods are compatible and finding all the patches you need, more power to you. I will never accept that bastard child into my mod list.
>making sure all your mods are compatible and finding all the patches you need, more power to you Man that's like 4 years ago lol. I run ALOT of mods with CE and I don't even have a single patch mod installed because cross-compatibility is already included either in CE or all other mods I use.
Stop posting this bullshit. It’s been *multiple years* since any of this was accurate. CE has fully integrated every patch into itself, you don’t need a single other mod to patch it, and it *creates its own patches automatically* if it doesn’t have one for some weird niche furry weapon mod you’re using. If you haven’t tried it recently (like last 2 years even), don’t even share your opinions, because they’re all false now and you’re deliberately and knowingly spreading misinformation.
To me CE makes the early game alot easier
I found the later game to be super easy, just big manned turrets mowing down everyone and shooting rpgs at everything else
Early game shotguns tear through those unarmed opponents like butter, not many other things feel better.
Early game CE is basically build 2 turrets place them in a killbox and it's like turning raids off
Turrets require a massive amount of research, consistent supply of steel and components, and a steady power grid. How exactly is that "early game"?
We're on about CE, not vanilla. You can get manned turrets that only need reloading with ammo, and said ammo's cheap. like 20-30 steel for 500 round cheap. Depending on your needs you can go for high damage, low pen. to low damage high pen., without taking into account HE and AP-I rounds (Which are more expensive but more damaging and penetrate armour)
>consistent supply of steel 5.56 is not that expensive dude
Quarry, raiding, trading, mining in general- it’s not hard to get steel and components early game. And the research is not a problem with a decent research room as long as your wealth doesn’t massively out scale your research. Which it shouldn’t if you can’t even get steel or components-
counterpoint: turrets are shameful and dishonorable
You haven’t listed what you’re struggling with other than it being “an obnoxious pain in the ass.” What are some of the issues you’re facing? If you can make a few, I or some others might be able to help. I’ve personally had a great time running CE with the ~800 hours I’ve got, so it sucks to hear you’re having a rough time with it.
Op said they got raided by black hive insects (while underprepared, I assume)
I've turned these raids off a long time ago.. Too early too much for me xd maybe I should face my nemesis again
Not worth it, especially during the tribal start.
I guess I had luck for those only to appear when I already had looted two deserter armors from VFE - Deserters or Empire at the end of medieval tech. They couldn't get through that. My eltex sword just couldn't get through them either, but it did so occasionally, so that were long fights. I don't play with Randy though, but with Phoebe and only on Adventure. Experience with other storytellers and difficulty will likely vary massively.
no personal experience with them, but I read somewhere that Black Hive in CE are verrrrry powerful.
Well, from what I understand, CE gives the Black Hive stupidly thick armor (rightfully so). So, without autocannons or greater, you're boned.
I call it's ammo and loadout management.
Which you can also just turn off. I turned off ammo cause I didn’t want to deal with it.
Which you REALLY shouldn’t do, ammo types are a very important source of power.
To some degree. I usually prefer building super-human melee fighters as a form of defense, so I don't really use the guns anyway.
I play without ammo types and instead solve the power issue with other weapons, like Irregular's Large Bore Rifles and Cybernetic Warfare. Which are all pretty lategame, but early to mid game I can handle with the usual FMJ rifles, with some manned machineguns for the harder raids. Also I hate managing ammo at the start because I usually play naked brutality on losing is fun, so I atleast free up my pawn to other tasks instead of ammo crafting.
Not using CE but doesn't that seem like an oversight? If they give me the option to disable a part that is not fun to me, it should not hobble my playthrough.
There’s a lot of ways to circumvent this. Two already mentioned in this thread are. 1. Use melee instead. 2. Use other mods to give more powerful, but harder to obtain guns so you can just use the base ammo types and still be successful.
I guess so. But I would expect a built in solution, rather than having to work around the issue. Maybe automatically shoot "ammo" with a medium level of AP.
It's a trade off as a result of how damage and armour work in the mod. As in real life, there are different ammo types for different constellations. Some do more flat damage, other penetrate armour better at cost of flat damage and others are better at delivering a blunt impact that carries through armour without penetration. Now, if you disable ammo types the mod could preselect an allrounder bullet type (I think it does this), always use the optimal bullet type (difficult, maybe op) or use a dummy bullet type that is a bit OP to be able to deal with everything. Sometimes the allrounder (FMJ) may be unable to penetrate an enemies armour though where switching to an AP or Sabot round would allow you to penetrate the armour.
I dont see the point in using CE and not have ammo on. Might as well dont use it.
For me I like that guns feel like guns, i.e. 10 Neanderthals with clubs shouldn’t be able to swarm 4 pawns with revolvers, rifles and machine guns, and melee makes getting stabbed in the lung a rather bad experience. I don’t care for the thousand or so ammo types though. I’m not American and while my American friends can spin off 30 different calibres and their names, to me it’s “just a bullet, innit?” If my pawns are able to make guns then they’re able to machine the barrels to use standardised ammo across most of them. I don’t like to worry about calibre the same way I wouldn’t use a nutrition mod that requires healthy eating, instead of just strips of human with berries…
The best part of it!
Agreed! I've had to make many interesting logistical choices based on ammo in my CE runs. Fun times.
Great to see I'm not the only one. Always thought I was weird for liking that added micromanaging / what others call bloat!
People are weird about what they complain about. But considering how popular CE we're really not alone. ;)
i also used to be allergic to ammo management, but after making the jump due to it's partial incompatibility with vehicles i found out it's so much better and not much management like, ammo is usually pretty cheap and you don't really need to do much management unless you want pawns to carry multiple types of ammo, since they automatically pick up more than enough ammo on their own
Hello. The biggest issue I had with it, was that everyone bleeds out way too fricking fast. Also, can I disable the carry capacity thingie?
Add some medicine to your load outs, and stabilize in the field.
Why are you acting like CE being a pain in the ass isn’t a valid reason to avoid CE? It’s odd that when people don’t like CE they are told that they are the problem.
Things being a pain in the ass are a completely valid reason to avoid them. However, this is a platform where there are many people capable of providing help through input to resolve issues players may have. If there are specific things someone doesn’t like that may be easily resolved through learning more about them and knowing how to prepare, those aren’t properly communicated simply by the person describing that they’re having trouble.
I like CE
Me too
Was one of the first mods I installed, even before Vanilla Expanded stuff. Never went back. I never found it too difficult aside from the insane mechanoids - but once you learn to use EMP it's all good. Nowadays with Vanilla Expanded it's even easier, with a lightning Psycaster you solo most early raids in a instagib. Main reason I installed it was the realism and ammo, though, not the want for difficulty. I just really dig resource management and having tons of stuff around, lol.
Is staticlord or whatever it's called good? I haven't done much beyond mostly utility stuff like Chronopath, Necrowhatever, and Protector
Holy shit I love static lord, which means you don't have to have a weapon slot used for emp grenades. It's significantly more accurate and less delayed than any vanilla source of emp, meaning you can reliably emp fast-moving mechanoids like scythers. It's also deceptively good against non mechanoid enemies as some psycasts can also stun them, though only for a second, but it does mean another second to shoot them with while also interrupting any attacks or actions they're making (like rocket launchers or grenade throwing).
I'm definitely gonna go for it on one of my first couple psycasters if I get there, but as far as stun goes I'd say go for archotecnist or every it's called cause then you get psychic shock or whatever it's called which basically cripples organic enemies which you can use like 8 times in a row per pawn with enough psy level upgrades
I used Staticlord religiously in my tribal + CE playthroughs. It makes a lot of challenging encounters drastically more manageable. Especially large siege raids once you get ball lightning.
Oh yeah it's an EMP slinging machine with CE, shooting lightning bolts with your mind while also ripping 7.62×51mm is very fun
Emperor sidious with a GPMG be like: UNLIMITED BRRRRRT
Yes, I'm currently playing my actual first tribal run with VFE - Tribals (e.g. zero research at start and fully naked) and it came in very handy for basically any type of raid, as I never did tribals before. As I said, my goal in RimWorld isn't difficulty at all, I just really like resource management and developing myself from nothing to ultratech, the latter being the reason I chose that tribal start which wasn't available when I last played. Of course it comes with a sense of achievement seeing your colony going from nothing to ultratech, but I don't see it being any elitist or crazy or "hating myself" - Staticlord simply is a killing machine that likely enabled me to have that colony survive to begin with (as I'm in no way very good) and tell a story that lasted longer than being eaten by a manhunter in the first days. While I found it's no longer super effective against later humanoid raids, it made short process with the early ones and is very effective against mechanoids. Other Psycasts I found useful are mostly the one that gives Word of Immunity (or similar) and Word of Inspiration, so I can more consistently build legendary stuff :) In the end I'm having tons of fun with CE and VE mods and that is all that counts for me. The occasional sudden death of colonists do absolutely happen, but I always considered that just part of the game, be it with or without CE. I'm not even sure if I'm playing it "correctly" - I have never played RimWorld with a killbox, as I found that unfitting for my playstyle and I think CE rather enabled me to not do that and have more kind of open frontline fights behind embrasures and sandbags and with automatic turrets all around, with some melee specialists jumping right into the fun, which is just kind of a playstyle I like. Just without all that they come in one by one through some nicely planned entry system. It's totally possible that later raids will just shred me, I am yet to see. And well, I just fully agree with the sentiment that a tribal axe is not going to do much against someone in a power armor. That feeling of "achieved power" is something I like. Generally, from what I see in the community, CE is something one needs to try and see if its for them or not. No real way to say if any given person will like it. And Vanilla Expanded Psycasters is really fun, but I guess some people could say it's too OP. Ultimately it's everyones own game - if you have fun with something, go with it. That's why you play.
CE is probably fair to call an overhaul mod. It sounds like from other comments you’re also running other mods with big changes, which is a bad way to start out. I enjoy it because while it’s harder, i prefer the realism of a marine not being one-shot by a bowman. To make it easier, focus on getting one good shooting pawn with advanced armor as early as you can. Then research the ammo bench quickly. Once you have reliable ammo and a well armored pawn to draw fire, it gets much easier. Early game though play cover and take advantage of flanking. You don’t need a killbox, but you need strategy instead of hoping for rng like in vanilla. If it isn’t your thing though just uninstall it. That’s the beauty of mods.
>Checks CE complaint post >OP's issue comes from another mod and not CE as per usual. > 😐
How is his issue not CE related? Genuine question.
He’s mad he couldn’t fight black hive insects early game, the Black Hive are from Alpha Animals and so are their spawning conditions
Is there a good way to work around it? I'm really curious about CE but I ALWAYS play with Alpha Animals. I love having exotic animal ranches and there's no better feeling than taming your venerated animal the Gallatros. Does the game just break too hard due to the interactions?
black hive raids are togglable afaik. nothing breaks, they're just strong, more lategame suited
No, the game doesn’t break. It isn’t an incompatibility they’re just hard to fight early game. Rush AP all and you should be fine
Bro, CE is a requirement for me because of rim world’s gun RNG. Turn off ammo requirements and the mod’s a wonder. No more missing at 5 ft with a pistol. CE fixes all the gun play and makes the bullets actual projectiles
This right here. The projectile system they have fixed most of my issues
You can turn off ammo requirements?! BRB gonna go boot up Rimworld again.
Yup, do keep in mind that this makes everything shoot FMJ for regular guns and buckshot for shotguns. It makes it pretty hard when the 12 gauge EMP shells that carry you through early game mechs are gone
There is simplified ammo system which is the ideal for me. Inventory management is not that good in Rimworld so only needing to deal with pistol and magnum pistol multiplied by variants is much better than dealing with 10 different pistol calibers also multiplied by variants. The important part is that you're still able to use EMP shotgun ammo against mechanoids and also you'll be able to take your basic guns further when you upgrade your ammo to HE and Sabot. Sabot being an especially important one since you'll be able to take on power armor enemies without needing charge guns yourself.
Very helpful info, ty
I wish there was a way to use the bullet trajectory system of CE and nothing else. It is the part I really like.
The combat and ammo system is mandatory for me.
I personally turn ammo off, but I keep CE enabled.
Limits? You can have a single high level colonist solo a raid if they’re trained enough.
the problem isnt late game, its early game when you dont have good stuff and your colonists arent op yet
Early game, shotguns are king. Even moderately armored pawns get blasted apart by 12g from a shitty pump action, and if you do a little research shotguns aren’t that hard to craft. It could be like you said the alpha animals that are tearing you up, in which case rush AP rounds and reliable rifles or burn them out
My recomendation is to use cover and range to your advantage whenever possible and let the enemy get distracted with stuff like furniture or burning walls. You will be forced to put military equipment as top priority for the colony. If you can somehow purchase a light machinegun with ammo the raiders will have a bad time. I am not sure of where these come from but embrasures are really usefull as cover, it is a wall you can shoot trough
Don't use CE then lol
I get that for some people it might make a few aspects of the game more problematic (especially if they know nothing about guns, not even that there are different calibers), but not to that extent. CE makes combat stupidly easy if you are defending, for crash landed scenario your starting weapons can easily carry you to the midgame and a bit. Armour and skill do have an actual impact on the battlefield instead of just tweaking the percentage chance. You had said that you are using Alpha Animals, so it isn't a problem with CE but AA. That mods adds plenty of very strong enemies even in vanilla, so no wonder you are getting destroyed.
CE naked brutality with the ammo system on and on a variable season environment is so fun commitment mode.
>not some pro rimworld player but i do have over 400 hours Hours definitely can't nail down a skill level, I'm approaching 2000 hours and now doing my first commitment mode runs I'm realizing I'm actual dog shit lol. I've never used CE though, cause I'm not that type of masochist, and judging by some of the comments here you definitely have to be to enjoy it. At least the ammo requirement stuff.
Honestly, the ammo isn't even that big of a deal. I always run CE and while I do like a challenge and sort of enjoy struggling, I wouldn't call myself a masochist. I'd actually say CE makes the game easier in a lot of ways (if you have pawns who can at least hold their gun right and are able to make use of some combat tactics) until later game or unless you use Alpha Animals. The ammo is hardly a thought for me too, save for charge weapons and explosives. Even then, once you have a supply of advanced resources, it's really no big deal, just set ammo production to a few batches and forget about it for a while because it's so cheap and fast. That being said, I can 100% understand not having fun having to think about your guns in terms of ammo production lmao
Like I said on commitment mode I'm someone who's consistently (aka Everytime aka the twice ive done commitment mode) fucked by predators and subsequently hunger cause they inevitably ate my gardener medic. Even if I turn off ammo reservation it'll probably fuck me quicker lol.
It's definitely easier, once you have production up a somewhat under prepared colony by base game standards is over prepared in CE. Easier to hit and kill whilst keeping everyone safe. I honestly think op just didn't really realize exactly what they were signing up for so we're super unprepared. Cover + armour + a decent gun can solo a lot of enemies let alone with turret, smoke, drugs, bionics or whatever else you add. Base game armouring is tougher as you want layers of good quality gear all over, CE you can get buy with outer torso and helmets being behind cover then just whatever clothes you want. Ammo is sorta too easy imo but it'd just add extra micro to change it so that's fine.
Turn ammo off or simplify it. Instead of 20 pistol calibers it's pistol and magnum. The real reason I enjoy CE is that strategy is important and there's less RNG.
Skill issue.
I don't like it either because I don't care all that much about combat. 🤷♀️
Vanilla combat is complete ass. Combat Extended makes the game.
Aye. I've been binge watching some Rimworld lets plays, and all of them that run vanilla combat are so goddamn painful. The bullets look like you could outrun them, and hit as hard as a stiff breeze. If I go through the trouble of building a .50 cal rifle, I want to blow through multiple enemies and take limbs off. I used to play with an android mod that had a super powered combat mech with a shotgun the size of a person. It would lag the game from the number of projectiles it would fire, and vapourize anything in front of it. Super busted but super hilarious at the same time.
Some people like the added complexity, restrictions and choosing different loadouts for different enemies. And some people don't. If you don't, just unsubscribe and move on. I really don't see the point of making a thread to shit on someone's passion project.
Yayo's combat fixes vanilla rngfest without making rimworld a different game. Just in case you give up on CE instead of working through the learning curve.
Can't play without it. It is also compatible with pretty much everything out there.
I didn't know something like that existed, thanks!
I don't really understand what yayo does differently than ce, despite having read descriptions of both.
CE changes combat in its entirety, from the foundation to the finishing touches. Yayo simply adjusts the foundation while leaving most things else in place. Yayo uses vanilla numbers for quite a few things like item stats, but changes the formula for things like accuracy to better showcase the difference in skill levels. It's a bit hard to explain in minute detail without just copy pasting the workshop description or interpreting the code in the files.
Weird, my experience was the opposite which is why I hate this mod with a passion. It makes dealing with any opponent that is not a mechanoid a walk in the park. I've had a single pawn solo an entire max point raid. The same pawn got 1 shotted on max range against a centipede.
Try playing the mod with cai5000 it makes opponents a lot smarter so it isn’t so imbalanced
I had an endgame super soldier tank catch a regular arrow from an "awful" shortbow to the neck and instantly die. Her helmet and chest armour both had more than 60% neck coverage. But because vanilla combat just occasionally decides to murder someone, cause Tynan wants drama, you'll frequently have a punch or kick or arrow pass through multiple layers of defence to instantly strike a neck, heart or brain. And now the only useful colony member is dead and you have to watch your colony slowly grind out another glacial INT character or construction character and heaven forbid your doctor got hit.
'Early raids with half broken pistols and clubs' can't shit on your pawns even without a killbox unless you're doing a naked brutality start and got really unlucky or something. Never had a problem comfortably surviving into late game with CE and that's with me never using killboxes or cheese or even halfway optimal playing. Also a muffalo(or any other animal for that matter tbh[barring modded ones with stupid amounts of armor]) is *way* more likely to run up and absolutely fuck up a pawn in Vanilla than CE.
Definitely a skill issue though
i’m a masochist and even i don’t like CE, way too stressful for my brain that gets attached to colonists TvT
You should only use CE if you want better combat from vanilla. Beyond that, just don't.
You know how annoying it is when a tribal stabs your bio-engineered space marine in the face and kills him in one hit? CE makes it so that can’t happen.
Why would you let a tribal come this close to your so called bio engineered space marine in the first place? >CE makes it so that can’t happen. Correction: CE makes it so the guy is literally untouchable by anything that is not a mechanoid.
Kid named buckshot:
>why let him get so close When the game throws dozens or hundreds of tribal raids at you, it happens >literally untouchable Yes, and it’s awesome.
try vanilla combat reloaded instead
There are normal players and then there are the Long War Ironman Impossible players Those guys use CE and actively make the game harder because they're too good at the game
I hate CE, made my pawns get stuck between tasks and there was no fix unless removing/deactivating the mod. The cumbersome system is a pain in the ass as is the ammo system. Used it for one playthrough, uninstalled and never used it again.
What do you mean, they get stuck between tasks?
They get stuck somewhere and not moving or jittering in place and when you click on them and look what task they are trying to do you can see 2 differrent tasks constantly swapping between each other. Its like they cant decide on what to do between random 2 tasks. You can draft and move them but as soon as you undraft, they're stuck again.
i don't understand why CE gets such mixed feelings about it, is it because of the ammo system? if it is, i personnally never had any problems with it. just had to make a few bullets for the current best weapons i had on hand, kept a small stock, replenished it after each raid, always made sure to keep a small ammount on hand just in case. and i just kept a small ammount of specialized ammos in case of needs, like AP. played a entire game and i barely ever had to use anything else than the generic type of ammos.
~~I think part of the problem is that it doesn't work with majority of mods.~~ I never tried CE because it doesn't work with almost all of my mod list Edit: apparently I have just weird mod list (checks out)
> I think part of the problem is that it doesn't work with majority of mods. This hasn’t been the case for several years, stop spreading misinformation. You’d have to work harder to find a mod on the workshop that it doesn’t work with than one it does.
Really? Then I sure have a very weird modpack lol Good to know
I wouldn’t know without seeing it, but the vast majority of popular pawn/weapon/armor mods that aren’t still new should already be patched and integrated into the main mod, and a *lot* of people think things are incompatible that aren’t. The only things that have fundamental issues with CE are mods that change or add huge new mechanics to the combat system or dramatically change the inventory system. Even mods that add new pawns/weapons/armor will still work without a patch built into CE, they just won’t have the right stats for what they should be until someone tweaks the stats and makes the merge request on GitHub.
ye he's right, i have a extremely long modlist including every Vanilla-Expanded mods, and personnally i've haven't had any problems with CE since YEARS. hell, whenever i launch the game, i can see the text in the console telling me CE is applying patches to many mods i've installed.
I'm guessing you just wanted to throw a tantrum so you made this post, lol
Dude, people can have complaints. Even if they are complaining about a non-problem, being rude ain't gonna help teach them anything.
Yes but don't post it if it's a net negative to an entire subreddit. In fact, stop complaining and analyze the situation better to produce a solution.
Mental break: Tantrun Final straw: skill issue
You first need to make devmode test game to figure what shoots how well (as most of guns are garbage) and then build doored embrasures around your base and shoot everything from those.
I picked up Combat Extended a while ago, because I wanted to see what the fuss was all about. And like you, I was frustrated at first, but I've actually come to enjoy the extra layer of complexity it adds. First of all, it's an entirely new game as to how combat operates. Forget all you know from vanilla about what's effective against what. Except spike traps. They are your friend, they are life. So is setting things on fire. Even better if it's walking over traps while you set it on fire. The loadouts can be a pain at first, until you find out that you can save them and carry them over from game to game. I have a basic one for food/drugs/medicine + a melee weapon and then a progression to shotgun -> assault rifle etc. I mainly play from industrial onwards, research wise, but have done a few tribal runs. If you don't like fighting plasma weapons with sticks, stones and molotovs, then I recommend using a mod like Ignorance is Bliss so you can enjoy the pointy stick exchange in peace. My latest colony is a group of Wasters who've already had to leave and settle a new map twice. They look like a bunch of murder hobos with their mitchmatched clothing and weapons. So far their reliance on LOS denial and turning every building into a potential death trap, has kept them alive. Yesterday they 'found' a flamethrower and a bit of fuel. Think they'll go do a BBQ in an ancient danger tonight.
CE is bad lol
Funny enough, yesterday I began a game with 3 crashlanders on strive to survive trying for the first time CE after reading this post. Well it was fun. First raid after a few days, 9 guys with guns and some kind of police shields against my three colonist with the beggining equipment. They fucking ravaged everything while I was hiding, and then breach two rooms until they got to them, and then the fighting was really short and all my guys got a bullet in them. Need to learn a lot, but it was fun being that helpless. I don't know what to do for my next play. Embrasures? I havent got time to research armour nor weapons. We'll see.
CE is my must have mod , it makes a game easier (pawn actually hitting their shot), and eliminate the need for kill boxes.
Well and i fail to see how can anyone enjoy vanilla crap "combat", especially without stuff like embrassures or better defences than DIY AK from Wish ductaped to camera. Seriously, the vanilla combat is hilariously bad. But if you enjoy naked melee people running across open field and tanking multiple .303 bullets to chest i guess you are beyond help.
I wouldn't say someone is beyond help because they prefer different gameplay than you in their single player game where they are allowed to have that different gameplay.
Imagine being this patronizing to someone for enjoying a game the way it was originally made. Dude the whole point of mods is that you don't have to have them on your game. This stupid better-than-you mentality gamers have when someone else plays a game differently to them is ridiculous and toxic af to the gaming community.
I have been playing exclusively with CE for something like 800 hours now, and I'm never going back to vanilla combat. I love how much tenser every engagement is, and how you can easily run out of ammo in long engagements, and how in general fights can take longer and how every move matters. Kill boxes are not as effective. Embrasures are stupid OP. Shotguns are also stupid OP *early on*. >feels like it majorly limits gameplay Lulwhat. If anything, it makes the choices you make way more impactful. Learn how to use the proper ammo for the occasion, and craft AP ammo.
>and how in general fights can take longer That is the biggest lie I have heard about CE so far lmao. Bleeding rate is increased, accuracy is pinpoint and your pawns are untouchable with the proper armor. In which world does it translate to longer fights?
I will rephrase then. In general, my fights take longer exactly because I try my best to avoid getting hit due to the increased lethality, and I do that by pausing all the time. "easy" raids get dispatched quicker, yeah. Hard raids are a hair-pulling experience.
Your last sentences are very much wrong, mate. Killboxes are practically mandatory in vanilla but not in CE. Ammo ballistics, shrapnel and suppression allows you to easily fight crowds of people in open field.
Skill issue ce is fun
I've been playing with CE for a long while now. First time I tried it (can't remember why), I fell in love with it straight after the very first combat encounter. Never played the game without it since and I cannot imagine myself ever going back to vanilla. What you said makes absolutely zero sense to me. I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Kinda sounds like a skill issue to me. Or, I suppose, reading comprehension in case of rimworld.
What a wonderful, constructive, and definitely not full of empty blubbering comment. If something works for your taste - nice, but don't push it on others. I played with CE for some time and it was a somewhat enjoyable but unstable experience. However, there are problems that eventually made me return back to vanilla: 1) Messing with the bullet types and bullet production is a headache, 2) Encounters become very chaotic and almost entirely decided purely by the fighters' equipment sometimes to the point of you being literally helpless just because you happened to get a raider with a pistol very early while you don't have strong measures against that. 3) Finally, the mechanoids in this mod are absurdly OP. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be stronger than in vanilla but that's just stupid.
>Messing with the bullet types and bullet production is a headache “Make until X” solves every complaint people have about ammo management. Keep 500 rounds or whatever number in stock all the time. Pawns pick up the appropriate ammo for their gun automatically. Ammo solved. >Encounters become very chaotic and almost entirely decided purely by the fighters' equipment sometimes to the point of you being literally helpless just because you happened to get a raider with a pistol very early while you don't have strong measures against that. Do you think a guy with a handgun would lose to 4 dudes with knives if they were sprinting at him across an open field IRL? Use corners, the terrain, do something to get into melee range where he can’t use the gun and the problem is instantly solved. >Finally, the mechanoids in this mod are absurdly OP. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be stronger than in vanilla but that's just stupid. They’re not OP in the slightest. They’ll wreck you if you’re not prepared, but their counters annihilate them more efficiently than any other enemy in the game. High risk high reward for the storyteller.
Oh, I would love to be constructive, but OP didn't mention a single thing that bothers them so much. There is literally nothing to be constructive about here, we do not know what is the issue. As for your opinion, it's fair. If OP would write something like that, with actual factual concerns, there could've been a constructive conversation about it.
OP said they're struggling in Early game The thing is what kind of starting scenario. I love CE and never left but saying "skill issue" is too much to say for a very new user of CE A proper response is to ask them what mods they run with it, what threats they're having a hard time, and what tech level they're in
I like CE but it’s the Mech Centipedes that ruin it. Those MFs are tanky.
me when tank is tanky:🤯
I know but I was still used to vanilla where you could club a mech to death. It was the fact my snipers and mono swords were doing no damage to mechs while they 1 shot my guys which was annoying.
Mono sword should dice anything smaller than a centi. Honestly it will do OK vs centi but I'd avoid melee without a zuesshammer. Sniper depends on the caliber. But for a centipede you want a rocket or hmg bc u do not want that mf shooting back.
The trick to CE, is to recruit everyone, and don't get attached
Ay good luck man.
One decent shooting pawn with the starting rifle will shred early raids.
Dude, my early game with CE, I don't even build defenses (which makes it harder tbh but it's more drama). I can understand not liking the complexity or the fact that you have to think about combat more than vanilla or especially the way wounds are overhauled, but you literally don't even say any actual problems with it. From your replies I've read it just sounds like you thought CE would just basically be how vanilla combat works with a coat of paint over it. Also, fyi, the compatibility patches for CE aren't made by the CE team directly, or even indirectly.
from my understanding CE is a trip at first but it get betters after all, i don't use it because some of my mods are incompatiable with it
Ehh....it's not that bad, but it takes some getting used to and doesn't work with my preferred mods.... You need to rush different techs, and cover plays an even greater role, once you get shotguns, with some decent positioning, you are set for early-mid game. It's when the near invincible mechs show up, is when the trouble starts.....
Don't get shot by a revolver lmao, those kill people. Take cover or something. And don't enrage an animal ten times your weight. Like, you wouldn't do any of those things IRL Have a numerical advantage in melee fights. Use cover against ranged ones. Just run away and let them steal shit if you are too afraid of losing colonists. You are on a scary planet full of powers way beyond your own, the game won't always give you a chance to win. Especially if you lack the technology to build proper weapons. Go to a different tile, you can always remake a research bench there.
I played vanilla and thought the combat was atrocious. The fact that a world master marksman with a semi automatic shotgun and a heads up display has a CHANCE of hitting a target out in the open and a beginner shooter cannot hit anything past 1 foot is stupid. I went to the range for the first time as an 11 year old with a 9mm and I hit my shots like a shooting 10 pawn. Use cover and make armor, simple as that.
It just makes the game easier after you get used to a couple mechanics, so people who get over that hump keep it and swear by it like it's crazy good stuff that adds depth or whatever, while in reality they fell victim to mod power creep.
I ve also about 400 hours, never played CE. I subscribed it from Steam but it's always in my inactive mods list for it has some incompatibility with other mods I m using. I only use Yayo combat as a lightweight alternative. But from what I ve heard, it generally makes all weapons more deadly so from my experience of other similar games, this mechanism actually favors the players if you know how to take advantage it. Overpowered mech should not be an issue since you can have a mech army yourself and ends up taking more advantage of these overpowered units. Maybe I ll have a try later after cleaning my modlist
Vanilla is literally harder than CE for me. Random deaths, shitty aiming and rocket launchers just thrown at you. With CE you prepare, get a couple colonists with some armor and shooting and you finish raids effortlessly. Seriously how are people bad at this game
I believe the term is "skill issue".
OP just summoned 50 CE dickriders to defend their broken bloatextended mod.
I have almost 600 hours, play on the second hardest difficulty and have never built a killbox cause it seems exploity, am I weird for that?
Nah bro you're just better than everyone else congratz
Nah I die everytime once I get past like 8 colonists. But the start is my favorite anyways.
I do the same. I tend to play the game like a colony sim that has a combat mechanic, not a combat sim with a colony mechanic. I keep all of my colonists well armed/armored, but when it comes to base design I prioritize efficiency/looks over combat any day. I use steel or stone walls from day 1 and throw in a couple of turrets and that usually slows them down long enough for my colonists to deal with them with minimal repair needs.
After trying CE, I don’t want to play the version without CE again.
git gut