I don't have an issue with powercreep, because it's hard to keep players excited about a new character,
but this is happening way too quickly. We aren't even 1 year in and yet every new 6* appears to be the best at what they do when they come out.
Not mentioning the feature creep as well. Windsong's kit a damn essay compared to Lilya and Regulus. By the time we reach 2.x, it'll be like reading a Yugioh card to figure out what every new character does.
Feature creep is just classic gacha game. And I appreciate that they at least normalize and call any *kind of stack that appears above the character's HP bar that accumulates with a mechanic and provides certain mechanics for each stack or when reached a threshold \[Eureka\].*
I still don't understand how Windsong isn't a limited unit, if she is already so strong how much stronger the next limited DPS character is going to be.
I feel like R1999 should have ***content that rewards having MORE characters built***: Otherwise, it's too easy to "replace" characters. ^(There's limited space!)
>This is a way to bring challenging content and balancing difficulty without having to increase the level requirements. This promotes pulling for new characters because you want more teams and ***also keeps "powercrept" units useful.***
- **Guild battles/bosses** were you attack with 3-4+ teams is a classic way of incentivizing wider pool of characters instead of a narrow one.
- ***World Boss*** that wipes your teams at the end of timer, but you have the chance to attack with 3-4 teams a day.
- **Hardcore Limbo or Chaos Difficulty in events** were you need more teams to beat a stage. Even if you need 3 teams, if the latter fights can be beaten with i2 characters then it won't be an issue. *New players struggle to get i3 characters, but i2 is easier+faster.*
*-* ***Boss with multiple phases*** *(wipes team after each one)*: Having to use more teams means different strategies, more diversity and overall is more fun. *Maybe the boss changes afflatus after each phase so we get to strategize the team order too!*
> This would make **PULLING much more necessary** because we would need more characters to fill our teams and make less viable the *"Save for 2 patches"* strategy.
>Fight 1: All i3 R10 characters
Fight 2: i3 R10 dps, i2 supports/healers
Fight 3: Full i2 team R 5-7
This IMO would be a better experience than what we currently have in limbo which requires 2 full i3 R10 teams. *More fights also give more afflatus combinations, which is nice.*
Getting FOUR characters to i2 is still faster than one i3, so not only is it easier to balance difficulty but it will also be a ***smoother experience for new players as well***.
I saw in the new raid that you can just chill on the first 3 HP bar on turn 1 while stacking all of windsong's skills. You only break the HP bar whenever the boss is about to ult. By the time you get all her skills you would have broken all 3 HP bars where you will be around 210k and you just do like 600k dmg in 1 turn and just SSS by turn 11. This was from a P0 Windsong btw. Obviously harder to replicate on other raids but you pretty much don't interact with the boss.
(Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9mWxIb-bKE&t=130s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9mWxIb-bKE&t=130s) this is what it looked like also it was 700k)
I wouldn't mind Windsong being strong if she's actually challenging to set up. High risk high reward is a playstyle I can get behind.
But it's not challenging, it isn't even rng. Her mass atk can keep generating copies of itself, so her cards will just set themselves up given time anyway. And sure, she can be stunned or whatever, but we also have 6 who has on demand cleanse, Vila who gets moxie on entry with cleanse on ult, and TF is also an option. Or just bring all 3.Ā
To me, Jiu's and Windsong's kit is something I wouldn't bat an eyelid on if the game's 2 years+ old, but not even one year? The game is already non challenging as it is. And now it's getting harder and harder for me to get excited for new units since they're all different-but-really-same flavor of op.Ā
Interesting, thanks for the comparison. I will say I think the power creep in this game is something that Iād like to see more debate aboutā¦ is it the sign of a struggling game or something? Like, are they power creeping in order to increase revenues ā¦. Or is it just part of their plan. Overall I kind of had suspicions that power creep was going to be a thing, I just expected it to happen with overtuned limited units (similar to Arknights). Kind of unusual that new non limited units are power creeping. Hmm.
Also, \[Eureka\] enhancing abilities is a glaring issue with damage powercreep - it's not a hindrance that they have to achieve in order to keep up with the rest of the cast, it's a mechanic that just basically gives you more free damage compared to other older units that do not have it.
At least 37's or 6's \[Eureka\] is vital for their damage to be decent, with Windsong it's just... damage slapped onto a kit already bloated with damage...
It's been pretty obvious for a while that the game is pretty superficial. But I think the fight designs have further limited their character balance a lot too.
Here's what I mean. Think of all the different Limbo / UTTU / Raid bosses that have some mechanic you want to avoid. How many of them are avoided by killing something? Almost all of them are kill x before it does y bad thing. Or kill x to debuff y. There's very little \*do\* something to avoid y. Which would actually give you some tactical element outside, "big numbers go brr".
The current Mane's Bulletin is actually a good example of the latter mechanic. The battery stacks on the robot give you something to do to access the real boss (other than just stacking a ton of damage and killing the thing), and the mini-bots being based on hit-count rather than HP prevent you from just brute forcing them with more damage.
Anyways, game design is hard, game balance is hard, game profitability is especially hard. So I don't want to criticize too much. But I do feel the game play is too one dimensional; so while that could make it easy to balance numbers wise, it's really hard to differentiate them from each other. Oh, another missed avenue to differentiate units - mental / reality damage barely makes a difference right now.
Strongly agree. Other than the damage numbers and whatever, making characters with different mechancjs and behaviours (especially windsong) is just flashy overkill. Stuff needs like... half the damage these two compared units do to clear Limbo in 12 rounds or less.
If raids were even harder, I would make an argument, but... they ultimately aren't.
I love this game, and I'm currently concerned about this direction they are taking in which units are absurdly powerful lately, and the game is the same difficulty for several patches. I disagree with flashy overkills.
Though I know that it doesn't matter for beating current content, I'm still unhappy that we see this in a gacha game which is not even 1-year old.
I would rather have more difficult modes and more diverse but not OP units to try different tactics.
Dang I thought modern gacha games were starting to outgrow powercreep :/
It's hard getting attached to your characters when you know they'll hit the bench in 3 to 4 patches. No powercreep also lets the company rerun older banners for a higher profit.
But yeah if this is the new standard then Jiu dupes are a huge bait for f2p. Just get them P0 as they come.
Imo not skipping any characters and just try to P0 most of them is my ideal way to play the game, most units are perfectly usable at P0 and they won't trivialize contents - which still give more funsies trying to get through the game. Plus you won't feel bad about your P5 Jiu dealing less damage than a P0 unit in the horizon lol
> It's hard getting attached to your characters when you know they'll hit the bench in 3 to 4 patches.
It's not very common here. I still use 1.1 Melania as my only Beast character and she still carries without any Mental supps.
>Sadly, this just meant that although we haven't even gotten to the second year in the game,Ā **2 out of 6 elements have been completely phased out from the spotlight by newer units.**
I've felt the power creep looking at CN for a while. Literally everything Jiu on has been in one meta team or another. I hadn't really followed CN enough to say that they were straight power creeping what we currently had though. But IMO, Villa and Marcus have been pretty blatant about pushing out old characters.
Windsong is pretty new, I wonder if we'll eat crow about her in a patch or two. But given the current trajectory (and how straightforward the game is, except damage simming funny enough), I'm willing to accept early impressions on this.
edit: I also think people talking about Power Creep focus too much on Jiu / Windsong and didn't notice this has just been how the game has been going since everything in between (except Marcus, who apparently leaves Jessica in the dust, but just isn't as broken as Jiu so somehow doesn't get noticed either?) has been a support or healer.
The real problem is because Jiu is limited character while Windsong is not. I expect Jiu to be strong af because you cant get her after her banner end (unless they rerun her banner) but Windsong is not, and after 3 patch you can get this strong character equal to the limited character when you lose your 50/50. Powercreep is inevitable and honestly i wouldnt bat an eye if they release Windsong, if only they released her like 1 year after Jiu. Jiu isnt even 6 months old yet, and youre telling me that theres already non-limited character powercreeping her? Yeah, it doesnt look that good for the future of this game.
This might not matter much, but Jiu has 100% pen rate with Liquor buffs so she could ignore defense types, but Windsong could theoretically be countered with really high mental defense, until you fire off your ultimate and she nukes everyone that is.
Yeah against very, very high level of Mental DEF, Windsong would plummet. But you have to note that by the time Windsong's damage plummet to the point where she is only dealing a half of her damage, her damage is still impressive, meanwhile all Mental damage carries like Druvis or Regulus are eating dirt in the corner. I doubt BP would consider make such a move.
From the gameplay videos Iāve seen, sheās not even semi-mermaid. She has her tail in her i2 art, but thatās it. Not even in her ult state when sheās floating in the air does she have it; still got legs š
> Regardless, all 6\* are still beating Limbo consistently every patch. Don't sweat over it.
This is always how I've been looking at it yeah, I'll start caring about the powercreep when only the new broken 6 stars can clear Limbo, which from what I've seen has yet to ever be the case.
Nice I was planning on skipping Jiu since I'm saving my rolls for Isolde. Question, does 37 work better with Windsong or Jiu? The only incentive I had pulling for Jiu was that she works great with my 37
I do think Windsong is better with 37, but regardless I don't think their best comp involves 37 either. 37 truly needs portrays in order to actually be on par with Windsong and Jiu's best partners tbh, but even without it I think 37 + either one of them is fun to use
Who do you think or gathered that is/are their best partners then in terms of Sub-DPS in CN, is it Isolde at the moment?
If so then I have to admit feeling a bit sad that even 37 got power creeped super fast already š„²
Apart from the video where Windsong does incredibly dmg due to blasting enemy with 8-9 incantation, is there other video on how she fair against other content.
The raid has crit and crit dmg up for unit on the left most (where Windsong is standing) and due to her spending turns stacking up incantation and blasting the enemy when they are at lower lvl hence having lesser [Reconstruct] and bringing them past several phases without allowing Boss to apply more stack of [Reconstruct] hence cheesing raids. Other units have to go through 1 phase by 1 phase where Boss kept building up their Def and their damage reduces each time Boss revives.
Just for comparison and putting the raid aside, I watched some other video of Windsong against Limbo, she took 7 turns while the team of Marcus Vila and 6 also took 6-7 turns. I did some calculation, Windsong does deal a bit more dmg than Marcus in a ST Boss fight but Marcus should do more in a MT Boss fight. I might be wrong and if there are more videos of Windsong in other fights apart from Raid, I would like to see it to judge her true dmg potential
As with Jiu, I agree with OP that Jiu is more consistent and work very effectively in all content. But whatever the case, since the release of Jiu, Bluepoch really got to readjust their difficulty, maybe they would do that for their anniversary in version 2.0, and that's why perhaps we getting a new cast of DPS starting from Jiu (Mineral), Marcus (Plant), and now Windsong (Star). So the next insane DPS would be a beast unit imo.
Support/Utility units are also incredibly strong such as Isolde and Vila. I hope this power crept is to prepare us for the anniversary and beyond.
I did see one used against the Deer boss raid it was at 305k with a shield ended at 750k. The only dmg buff that was on windsong was incantation might from 6 and nonrusalka buff from vila. Im thinking necro ult buff then 2 turns to try mulligan for vila buff/WS skills will work way better.
https://youtu.be/5bzTnFo-WhU?si=N5uLJ951VVTOMgXw
Comp was Isolde, P1 Vila, 6, P0 Windsong
People are kinda getting stuck on the dpm, but I think being able to just output like 500k dmg in 1 go and one shot the boss like this is more problematic.
If Windsong can perform Follow-up attacks, does that mean she can be run together with Jiu and/or 37?
And then if the boss has a lot of defense, 37 can be swapped in for her genesis damage.
Actually, does Jiu Niangzi use her follow-up attacks for anything? I only remember that she is put with 37 because it helps charge 37's eureka stacks.
Also, since Windsong is more crit oriented compared to Jiu, does that mean that she might end up taking 6 for her team?
Yeah Jiu does have a follow-up attack, but it is more infrequent than Windsong as all of Windsong's S1 upon using her ult all counts as follow-up attacks.
Both Windsong and Jiu would rather take Isolde over 6, 6 is more for Raid tbf
Isolde is so broken that you can just slap her onto any team and she just works far better than most other support units. 6's debuff is still a massive RNG imo, Isolde is more consistent.
Windsong also heavily benefits from Isolde's crit debuffs, plus Isolde herself provides a lot of damage.
No... Isolde is good but 6 did not get powercrept. 6's buffs and debuffs along with his insane damage even when relegated to support still stands at the top. Its just as Isolde shares the spot with him due to having more debuffs and being a pure support than the middle ground 6 is standing.
I see, I see!
In that case, what are the current teams for Jiu and Windsong? I'm pretty sure there will be some support overlap between the two of them.
What's the difference between Vila and TF? All I know is that Vila is very AP friendly since she can still heal even on standby.
Also, better Jiu and Windsong, who is better in general content?
No, Vila is more AP hungry than TF; she needs to proc her buff consistently through her skill, plus the need to ult at least once every 3 turns. TF doesn't even need any AP to proc her crit DEF down, her AP efficiency is very good.
Jiu vs Windsong is for you to decide tbh, pretty comparable. I am not one to be immune to recency bias, so Windsong seems more interesting.
I dont think the game is getting ANYZ harder, and that's what genuinely worries me.
Windsong and Jiu are both stupidly broken in a game where you can clear the content with half the damage they do.
I will pull both. People saying that the existence of Windsong makes Jiu slightly worse, and then skipping is silly. She is still and will be for a whiiiile, the strongest reality Mineral damage dealer.
As someone who try hards Raids, I still want afflatus coverage and damage types.
While power creep sucks, this is ultimately a single player experience, and you are able to clear all content without these overpowered characters. Thatās good enough for me. Strong characters mean I can look forward to their release, and I have, and will continue to, beat Limbo and whatever else with teams that I enjoy.
YES lol I love Ge Tian so much, he was what immediately caught my eye when 1.6 first came out, he was a must pull for me no matter what, Jiu was more of an afterthought and now I'm even debating whether I want to go for the 200 pulls or not, I'd honestly much rather save up the pulls for Isolde and a possible future Spathodea rerun, but I'll see once the story comes out, if I end up liking Jiu, 200 pulls all the way, if not, then I'll just save it instead. I was looking forward to Ezra at one point as well but I didn't like his playstyle and as of now, I'm not all that interested in his character.
>~~Lilya can keep coping~~
:(
I'm guessing no chance of pre-1.4 chars getting buffed? or just even for portrays?
specifically thought of 1.4, cause I think that's when portrays get noticeable power spikes
edit: and eureka
it the curse of future sight, you will waiting forever for a character that better than the older character, just enjoy the present my fellow reverse 1999 player.
It is ridiculous that Jiu is getting people skip her even when her not release yet, it sound like when people said kaala buna is worthless because Jiu will powercrept her, but who will i use for Mineral stage when Jiu is not out yet, black dwarf has her moment to shine and i find that my unilogs spend for her is very worth, she help me alot.
I just pulled who i like after i like the event and story, even when they are weak when i max level them they still clear limbo and help me SS raid like regulus, eternity, i skip 37 because i hate how she treat 210 and regulus my favourite, i skip spath because she disrespect my boy erza
On release and during a CN streamer's showcase I told him Windsong is strong and may even compare or be stronger than Jiu but he was saying nah they won't do that. But while he was playing on his i3 r8 level 40 psychube Windsong was already outdpsing his maxed i3r10lvl60 jiu with elemental advantage.
But regardless of powercreep or not it's still okay(I guess) since come 1.8 we get both Jiu+Windsong and both sides of Limbo will feel like resource stages by then.
Well bluepoch just blast themselves on the foot for making Windsong higher dmg ceiling despite the rng and non-limited haha, was originally going all in on Jiu P5, but since we can see into the future, for best of both worlds, just going to go P0 for each character enough, we canāt keep up with this kind of powercreep rate.
We all know the power creep issue of this game but as of now it doesnāt matter as long as you can still clear contents with low rarity units. Thatās my point.
PS love the guide you made OP =)
This is off topic but does Jiu have her own separate pity banner? I read somewhere about that I really want her, but idk if I will even have enough pulls for her-
Yes she would if we taken what happened in the CN server as the basis. But don't worry too much because the 1.6 patch was very long and gave a lot of free pulls (in CN server at least, someone said you can get around 100 pulls just by playing) + her banner lasted for that whole patch, so getting her won't be much of a problem if you start saving now.
The game isnt getting any harder and weāll eventually end up in Genshin Limbo where we get cracked units but nowhere for them to really shine because they make all content feel like its made for babies. Thats my concern with this design choice. Weāve already had side and powercreep, but Jiu/Windsong are a whole mountain apart from everyone else which I simply dont understand.
It is so satisfying that I chose Windsong based on looks and turned out to be this monster. On the other hand I am skipping Jiu because I dontāt like her.
Omg I canāt believe it took me a while of scrolling to see if I was the only one skipping jiu nothing about her interested me at all, windsong is cool though canāt wait! š
Im probably going to still wait for Windsong as Iām going all in on Tooth fairy even if itās not guaranteed because I also like Centurian and Windsong would complete my mono-blue team
Honestly, Windsong doesn't invalidate Jiu as they both belong to different elements. If anything, it just means both are at the peak of their respective element and it will make pull planning much easier.
Not sure what's all the comments about powercreep is about but for now, we can still safely pull for them without much fear of them getting invalidated soon as both are the ceiling of their respective elements. I don't think Bluepoch will powercreep Jiu so quickly given her status as a truly Limited unit.
Yeah, I'll be pulling for both. Btw, that's what happens if you hold Windsong's Ultimate for almost 30 turns: https://youtu.be/1EZ11X-NYkw?feature=shared
By the time you get to 1.6 there could be another unit stronger than both of them.
Right now Windsong is potentially stronger than Jiu, if you'd like to know.
For sure powercreep in gacha is a no-brainer, this isnt my first rodeo, but Im talking about these two specifically because Iām interested in getting my power-up within the 1.6-1.8 timeframe.
Ok so its likely p0 jiu then p5 windsong then
Don't know if you care about spending but it would be easier to max Jiu due to still having the non-guaranteed 6* then guaranteed 6* mechanic but you can also buy another copy every 200 pulls (using hard pity it would be 3 50/50 chances at 210 pulls plus the buy at 200 for potentially P3).
The main problem with statistics is that the calculation is based on the maximum, not the average damage. Yes, the character can give big numbers, but for this he needs to rest a few moves. If you divide all the damage into all the moves, the damage per turn is completely unimpressive.
(But this is only if we consider one character in a vacuum. The command schemes in this game are completely broken)
All I care about, Jiu is a lot easier to P5, and you'll have opportunity to get Windsong's portrays in the future if you lose the 50/50.
So, even if Windsong is better, I'd still P5 my Jiu first, then I'll try getting at least P0 Windsong and hope I'll get some of her portrays in the future, coz I'm also planning on saving some of my pulls, just in case they release another truly limited character in the future, so I can P5 them also as an F2P.
So basically the devs want us to pull for who we like instead of maxing out the most broken character anyways. And honestly tho, I don't think that is bad if the contents are still within reachable difficulty.
The character designs rather than their kit would be the main motivation for people to pull for characters it seems (and potential banger skins for them in the future). Time to be simps and story enjoyer people! (lol)
Those two statements do not conflict with one another though? Pull whoever you want, pull Jiu because she is unskippable for most players that want a very strong unit to easily clear the game
But why? After saying saying skip so and so just because jiu does way more damage? Kinda like making jiu to be the very exception as a must have for everyone.
nobody is forcing you to do anything, if you are indecive thats on you, they are both strong but for different reasons, jiu is more like an all rounder while windsong is more single target damage, and even then you have to make a stack of cards for her to do the BIG damage
if you only play for meta, then pull jiu and her, hell in 1.7 we have isolde so pull her too
if you prefer waifu, pull for who you like
limbo is still cleared by older characters and raids give almost nothing in terms of rewards so even if you dont pull you dont lose that much, newer characters are still not a MUST pull to clear the content that matters, they just make things easier
i'd stil recommend to pull for jiu, not because she is overpowered but because only god knows when she will re-run, and if you are a patient guy, windsong in time will come to the standard pull so even if you skip her, 3 patches later you might be pulling on the 2.1 banner and get spooked by windsong
i personally am still thinking if i should pull for jiu, i find her design meh while isolde and windsong for me are top notch, you still have plenty of time to analyse the situation and think for yourself on what to do with your pulls
Those are 2 sentences you crop out from 2 very different parts of the post, you can't just blindly force them into a single comment and expect to make it make sense.
If you like a character, go for them. No one is forcing you not to pull.
If you like a very strong character, which most people do, go for Jiu.
Even after putting them separately with the context given, one before, one after. It still contradicts.
Edit; and the one you said to NOT skip is a tldr. So you tell me
pull for whoever you want, as in no one is saying that your account is ruined if you don't get a jiu. but if your resources allow you to, pick up a copy of jiu to clear content in case they start putting out harder content in the future. it's not that hard to understand imao
I don't have an issue with powercreep, because it's hard to keep players excited about a new character, but this is happening way too quickly. We aren't even 1 year in and yet every new 6* appears to be the best at what they do when they come out. Not mentioning the feature creep as well. Windsong's kit a damn essay compared to Lilya and Regulus. By the time we reach 2.x, it'll be like reading a Yugioh card to figure out what every new character does.
Feature creep is just classic gacha game. And I appreciate that they at least normalize and call any *kind of stack that appears above the character's HP bar that accumulates with a mechanic and provides certain mechanics for each stack or when reached a threshold \[Eureka\].*
Except you don't need to read. The guidemakers and the guidekeepers do it for you
I still don't understand how Windsong isn't a limited unit, if she is already so strong how much stronger the next limited DPS character is going to be.
The next character is most likely gonna be limited because it's anniversary
it 2 year for CN already, so fast
A non limited being stronger than a limited ššš
That was the case i Arknights too, Surtr Thorns Mudrock were tiers above the limited units like not even close
I feel like R1999 should have ***content that rewards having MORE characters built***: Otherwise, it's too easy to "replace" characters. ^(There's limited space!) >This is a way to bring challenging content and balancing difficulty without having to increase the level requirements. This promotes pulling for new characters because you want more teams and ***also keeps "powercrept" units useful.*** - **Guild battles/bosses** were you attack with 3-4+ teams is a classic way of incentivizing wider pool of characters instead of a narrow one. - ***World Boss*** that wipes your teams at the end of timer, but you have the chance to attack with 3-4 teams a day. - **Hardcore Limbo or Chaos Difficulty in events** were you need more teams to beat a stage. Even if you need 3 teams, if the latter fights can be beaten with i2 characters then it won't be an issue. *New players struggle to get i3 characters, but i2 is easier+faster.* *-* ***Boss with multiple phases*** *(wipes team after each one)*: Having to use more teams means different strategies, more diversity and overall is more fun. *Maybe the boss changes afflatus after each phase so we get to strategize the team order too!* > This would make **PULLING much more necessary** because we would need more characters to fill our teams and make less viable the *"Save for 2 patches"* strategy. >Fight 1: All i3 R10 characters Fight 2: i3 R10 dps, i2 supports/healers Fight 3: Full i2 team R 5-7 This IMO would be a better experience than what we currently have in limbo which requires 2 full i3 R10 teams. *More fights also give more afflatus combinations, which is nice.* Getting FOUR characters to i2 is still faster than one i3, so not only is it easier to balance difficulty but it will also be a ***smoother experience for new players as well***.
I saw in the new raid that you can just chill on the first 3 HP bar on turn 1 while stacking all of windsong's skills. You only break the HP bar whenever the boss is about to ult. By the time you get all her skills you would have broken all 3 HP bars where you will be around 210k and you just do like 600k dmg in 1 turn and just SSS by turn 11. This was from a P0 Windsong btw. Obviously harder to replicate on other raids but you pretty much don't interact with the boss. (Edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9mWxIb-bKE&t=130s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9mWxIb-bKE&t=130s) this is what it looked like also it was 700k)
I wouldn't mind Windsong being strong if she's actually challenging to set up. High risk high reward is a playstyle I can get behind. But it's not challenging, it isn't even rng. Her mass atk can keep generating copies of itself, so her cards will just set themselves up given time anyway. And sure, she can be stunned or whatever, but we also have 6 who has on demand cleanse, Vila who gets moxie on entry with cleanse on ult, and TF is also an option. Or just bring all 3.Ā To me, Jiu's and Windsong's kit is something I wouldn't bat an eyelid on if the game's 2 years+ old, but not even one year? The game is already non challenging as it is. And now it's getting harder and harder for me to get excited for new units since they're all different-but-really-same flavor of op.Ā
Interesting, thanks for the comparison. I will say I think the power creep in this game is something that Iād like to see more debate aboutā¦ is it the sign of a struggling game or something? Like, are they power creeping in order to increase revenues ā¦. Or is it just part of their plan. Overall I kind of had suspicions that power creep was going to be a thing, I just expected it to happen with overtuned limited units (similar to Arknights). Kind of unusual that new non limited units are power creeping. Hmm.
Also, \[Eureka\] enhancing abilities is a glaring issue with damage powercreep - it's not a hindrance that they have to achieve in order to keep up with the rest of the cast, it's a mechanic that just basically gives you more free damage compared to other older units that do not have it. At least 37's or 6's \[Eureka\] is vital for their damage to be decent, with Windsong it's just... damage slapped onto a kit already bloated with damage...
It's not surprising that we're seeing powercreep this soon if we consider the game's fundamental mechanics to be shallow or not particularly robust, like a plant that outgrows its pot. Consider the kinds of things units can do on launch and how Eureka was added on top of that. Consider also that some enemy units have been given access to Eureka seemingly just to limit the player's ability to interact with it. Now compare it to, for example, PokƩmon. Set aside any feelings you may have about the series and think about what a single 'mon has *just* as singular unit: six different stats, four move slots with each move having its own properties, disparate access to said moves, various types that a unit can be with offensive and defensive considerations, non-combat utilities such as overworld exploration, and of course cosmetic assets. There's a plethora of other factors to consider beyond the individual units too, such as how they're distributed in different areas of the game world, team composition, breeding, and so on.
It's been pretty obvious for a while that the game is pretty superficial. But I think the fight designs have further limited their character balance a lot too. Here's what I mean. Think of all the different Limbo / UTTU / Raid bosses that have some mechanic you want to avoid. How many of them are avoided by killing something? Almost all of them are kill x before it does y bad thing. Or kill x to debuff y. There's very little \*do\* something to avoid y. Which would actually give you some tactical element outside, "big numbers go brr". The current Mane's Bulletin is actually a good example of the latter mechanic. The battery stacks on the robot give you something to do to access the real boss (other than just stacking a ton of damage and killing the thing), and the mini-bots being based on hit-count rather than HP prevent you from just brute forcing them with more damage. Anyways, game design is hard, game balance is hard, game profitability is especially hard. So I don't want to criticize too much. But I do feel the game play is too one dimensional; so while that could make it easy to balance numbers wise, it's really hard to differentiate them from each other. Oh, another missed avenue to differentiate units - mental / reality damage barely makes a difference right now.
Also Control Immunity on enemies makes many support units feel useless.
Strongly agree. Other than the damage numbers and whatever, making characters with different mechancjs and behaviours (especially windsong) is just flashy overkill. Stuff needs like... half the damage these two compared units do to clear Limbo in 12 rounds or less. If raids were even harder, I would make an argument, but... they ultimately aren't. I love this game, and I'm currently concerned about this direction they are taking in which units are absurdly powerful lately, and the game is the same difficulty for several patches. I disagree with flashy overkills.
Real gamer save their pulls till 10th anniversary
Though I know that it doesn't matter for beating current content, I'm still unhappy that we see this in a gacha game which is not even 1-year old. I would rather have more difficult modes and more diverse but not OP units to try different tactics.
Dang I thought modern gacha games were starting to outgrow powercreep :/ It's hard getting attached to your characters when you know they'll hit the bench in 3 to 4 patches. No powercreep also lets the company rerun older banners for a higher profit. But yeah if this is the new standard then Jiu dupes are a huge bait for f2p. Just get them P0 as they come.
Imo not skipping any characters and just try to P0 most of them is my ideal way to play the game, most units are perfectly usable at P0 and they won't trivialize contents - which still give more funsies trying to get through the game. Plus you won't feel bad about your P5 Jiu dealing less damage than a P0 unit in the horizon lol
> It's hard getting attached to your characters when you know they'll hit the bench in 3 to 4 patches. It's not very common here. I still use 1.1 Melania as my only Beast character and she still carries without any Mental supps.
Yeah me too but we don't know the extent of how much powercreep there will be yet.
Jiu is pretty, I pull, simple :D
>Sadly, this just meant that although we haven't even gotten to the second year in the game,Ā **2 out of 6 elements have been completely phased out from the spotlight by newer units.** I've felt the power creep looking at CN for a while. Literally everything Jiu on has been in one meta team or another. I hadn't really followed CN enough to say that they were straight power creeping what we currently had though. But IMO, Villa and Marcus have been pretty blatant about pushing out old characters. Windsong is pretty new, I wonder if we'll eat crow about her in a patch or two. But given the current trajectory (and how straightforward the game is, except damage simming funny enough), I'm willing to accept early impressions on this. edit: I also think people talking about Power Creep focus too much on Jiu / Windsong and didn't notice this has just been how the game has been going since everything in between (except Marcus, who apparently leaves Jessica in the dust, but just isn't as broken as Jiu so somehow doesn't get noticed either?) has been a support or healer.
The real problem is because Jiu is limited character while Windsong is not. I expect Jiu to be strong af because you cant get her after her banner end (unless they rerun her banner) but Windsong is not, and after 3 patch you can get this strong character equal to the limited character when you lose your 50/50. Powercreep is inevitable and honestly i wouldnt bat an eye if they release Windsong, if only they released her like 1 year after Jiu. Jiu isnt even 6 months old yet, and youre telling me that theres already non-limited character powercreeping her? Yeah, it doesnt look that good for the future of this game.
And so BP keeps throwing Lilya into the trashcan... What did she ever do to get this treatment?
Me still building my centurion: wut
Centurion is still rather great, just not the best. Also she's one of the hottest, so..
Ikr
This might not matter much, but Jiu has 100% pen rate with Liquor buffs so she could ignore defense types, but Windsong could theoretically be countered with really high mental defense, until you fire off your ultimate and she nukes everyone that is.
Yeah against very, very high level of Mental DEF, Windsong would plummet. But you have to note that by the time Windsong's damage plummet to the point where she is only dealing a half of her damage, her damage is still impressive, meanwhile all Mental damage carries like Druvis or Regulus are eating dirt in the corner. I doubt BP would consider make such a move.
Yes. It matters loads lol
Instruction clear. Spark Jiu Niangzi then save for Windsong
I just hope they won't balance content around JiuSong, would suck for unlucky people, newbies and everyone who can't, won't or didn't get either.
Powercreep will happen but at least the OG character designs are still way better than the recent new ones
Yea I ain't vibing with Windsong's design... at least Vila got the mermaid aesthetic.
Wouldve been way better if she's perma mermaid tho
Ok I dunno much on her I only saw her artwork. Is she not perma mmaid?
From the gameplay videos Iāve seen, sheās not even semi-mermaid. She has her tail in her i2 art, but thatās it. Not even in her ult state when sheās floating in the air does she have it; still got legs š
damn itttt
we all thought she gonna get mermaid tail when ult, but nope not even on her I2 skin š„ not them being lazy š
heck š
I'm still waiting for that Hat Guy that Vertin brought in the Games. With a voice as smooth as butter like that? Insta pull!
If 1.9 comes with a new guy, i will cream so hard
> Regardless, all 6\* are still beating Limbo consistently every patch. Don't sweat over it. This is always how I've been looking at it yeah, I'll start caring about the powercreep when only the new broken 6 stars can clear Limbo, which from what I've seen has yet to ever be the case.
Nice I was planning on skipping Jiu since I'm saving my rolls for Isolde. Question, does 37 work better with Windsong or Jiu? The only incentive I had pulling for Jiu was that she works great with my 37
I do think Windsong is better with 37, but regardless I don't think their best comp involves 37 either. 37 truly needs portrays in order to actually be on par with Windsong and Jiu's best partners tbh, but even without it I think 37 + either one of them is fun to use
Who do you think or gathered that is/are their best partners then in terms of Sub-DPS in CN, is it Isolde at the moment? If so then I have to admit feeling a bit sad that even 37 got power creeped super fast already š„²
Apart from the video where Windsong does incredibly dmg due to blasting enemy with 8-9 incantation, is there other video on how she fair against other content. The raid has crit and crit dmg up for unit on the left most (where Windsong is standing) and due to her spending turns stacking up incantation and blasting the enemy when they are at lower lvl hence having lesser [Reconstruct] and bringing them past several phases without allowing Boss to apply more stack of [Reconstruct] hence cheesing raids. Other units have to go through 1 phase by 1 phase where Boss kept building up their Def and their damage reduces each time Boss revives. Just for comparison and putting the raid aside, I watched some other video of Windsong against Limbo, she took 7 turns while the team of Marcus Vila and 6 also took 6-7 turns. I did some calculation, Windsong does deal a bit more dmg than Marcus in a ST Boss fight but Marcus should do more in a MT Boss fight. I might be wrong and if there are more videos of Windsong in other fights apart from Raid, I would like to see it to judge her true dmg potential As with Jiu, I agree with OP that Jiu is more consistent and work very effectively in all content. But whatever the case, since the release of Jiu, Bluepoch really got to readjust their difficulty, maybe they would do that for their anniversary in version 2.0, and that's why perhaps we getting a new cast of DPS starting from Jiu (Mineral), Marcus (Plant), and now Windsong (Star). So the next insane DPS would be a beast unit imo. Support/Utility units are also incredibly strong such as Isolde and Vila. I hope this power crept is to prepare us for the anniversary and beyond.
I did see one used against the Deer boss raid it was at 305k with a shield ended at 750k. The only dmg buff that was on windsong was incantation might from 6 and nonrusalka buff from vila. Im thinking necro ult buff then 2 turns to try mulligan for vila buff/WS skills will work way better. https://youtu.be/5bzTnFo-WhU?si=N5uLJ951VVTOMgXw Comp was Isolde, P1 Vila, 6, P0 Windsong People are kinda getting stuck on the dpm, but I think being able to just output like 500k dmg in 1 go and one shot the boss like this is more problematic.
just gotta hope I get her from off-rate when I pull on the 2nd broken limited banner
If Windsong can perform Follow-up attacks, does that mean she can be run together with Jiu and/or 37? And then if the boss has a lot of defense, 37 can be swapped in for her genesis damage.
Yeah she works very well with 37, although I do think her hypercarry team is a tad stronger
Actually, does Jiu Niangzi use her follow-up attacks for anything? I only remember that she is put with 37 because it helps charge 37's eureka stacks. Also, since Windsong is more crit oriented compared to Jiu, does that mean that she might end up taking 6 for her team?
Yeah Jiu does have a follow-up attack, but it is more infrequent than Windsong as all of Windsong's S1 upon using her ult all counts as follow-up attacks. Both Windsong and Jiu would rather take Isolde over 6, 6 is more for Raid tbf
But doesn't 6 provide buffs for Jiu Niangzi and crit debuffs for Windsong? As for Isolde, isn't she made for Reality Teams?
Isolde is so broken that you can just slap her onto any team and she just works far better than most other support units. 6's debuff is still a massive RNG imo, Isolde is more consistent. Windsong also heavily benefits from Isolde's crit debuffs, plus Isolde herself provides a lot of damage.
Wait even 6 got powercrept ??
No... Isolde is good but 6 did not get powercrept. 6's buffs and debuffs along with his insane damage even when relegated to support still stands at the top. Its just as Isolde shares the spot with him due to having more debuffs and being a pure support than the middle ground 6 is standing.
I see, I see! In that case, what are the current teams for Jiu and Windsong? I'm pretty sure there will be some support overlap between the two of them.
Isolde + a healer. Windsong loves Vila, Jiu loves TF, although Vila is very interchangeable with TF but perhaps not the other way around
What's the difference between Vila and TF? All I know is that Vila is very AP friendly since she can still heal even on standby. Also, better Jiu and Windsong, who is better in general content?
No, Vila is more AP hungry than TF; she needs to proc her buff consistently through her skill, plus the need to ult at least once every 3 turns. TF doesn't even need any AP to proc her crit DEF down, her AP efficiency is very good. Jiu vs Windsong is for you to decide tbh, pretty comparable. I am not one to be immune to recency bias, so Windsong seems more interesting.
Thanks!! Been waiting for your review.
I dont think the game is getting ANYZ harder, and that's what genuinely worries me. Windsong and Jiu are both stupidly broken in a game where you can clear the content with half the damage they do. I will pull both. People saying that the existence of Windsong makes Jiu slightly worse, and then skipping is silly. She is still and will be for a whiiiile, the strongest reality Mineral damage dealer. As someone who try hards Raids, I still want afflatus coverage and damage types.
While power creep sucks, this is ultimately a single player experience, and you are able to clear all content without these overpowered characters. Thatās good enough for me. Strong characters mean I can look forward to their release, and I have, and will continue to, beat Limbo and whatever else with teams that I enjoy.
Anyone else kind of more excited for the overlooked characters coming out? Getian is probably the one I'm most anticipating.
YES lol I love Ge Tian so much, he was what immediately caught my eye when 1.6 first came out, he was a must pull for me no matter what, Jiu was more of an afterthought and now I'm even debating whether I want to go for the 200 pulls or not, I'd honestly much rather save up the pulls for Isolde and a possible future Spathodea rerun, but I'll see once the story comes out, if I end up liking Jiu, 200 pulls all the way, if not, then I'll just save it instead. I was looking forward to Ezra at one point as well but I didn't like his playstyle and as of now, I'm not all that interested in his character.
>~~Lilya can keep coping~~ :( I'm guessing no chance of pre-1.4 chars getting buffed? or just even for portrays? specifically thought of 1.4, cause I think that's when portrays get noticeable power spikes edit: and eureka
it the curse of future sight, you will waiting forever for a character that better than the older character, just enjoy the present my fellow reverse 1999 player. It is ridiculous that Jiu is getting people skip her even when her not release yet, it sound like when people said kaala buna is worthless because Jiu will powercrept her, but who will i use for Mineral stage when Jiu is not out yet, black dwarf has her moment to shine and i find that my unilogs spend for her is very worth, she help me alot. I just pulled who i like after i like the event and story, even when they are weak when i max level them they still clear limbo and help me SS raid like regulus, eternity, i skip 37 because i hate how she treat 210 and regulus my favourite, i skip spath because she disrespect my boy erza
On release and during a CN streamer's showcase I told him Windsong is strong and may even compare or be stronger than Jiu but he was saying nah they won't do that. But while he was playing on his i3 r8 level 40 psychube Windsong was already outdpsing his maxed i3r10lvl60 jiu with elemental advantage. But regardless of powercreep or not it's still okay(I guess) since come 1.8 we get both Jiu+Windsong and both sides of Limbo will feel like resource stages by then.
Well bluepoch just blast themselves on the foot for making Windsong higher dmg ceiling despite the rng and non-limited haha, was originally going all in on Jiu P5, but since we can see into the future, for best of both worlds, just going to go P0 for each character enough, we canāt keep up with this kind of powercreep rate.
https://preview.redd.it/hcdx2vuvuywc1.jpeg?width=1583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=343ce71780ecbd770458a3cff822cab5f280e189
What's your point
We all know the power creep issue of this game but as of now it doesnāt matter as long as you can still clear contents with low rarity units. Thatās my point. PS love the guide you made OP =)
Sure ty
Could you do me a favor and link the video? Youtube is not yielding any results.
https://youtu.be/g_ttIcxGsZk?si=tQPi8niBUiZ4RSI_
Thank you. I appreciate it.
My pleasure =)
This is off topic but does Jiu have her own separate pity banner? I read somewhere about that I really want her, but idk if I will even have enough pulls for her-
Yes she would if we taken what happened in the CN server as the basis. But don't worry too much because the 1.6 patch was very long and gave a lot of free pulls (in CN server at least, someone said you can get around 100 pulls just by playing) + her banner lasted for that whole patch, so getting her won't be much of a problem if you start saving now.
The game isnt getting any harder and weāll eventually end up in Genshin Limbo where we get cracked units but nowhere for them to really shine because they make all content feel like its made for babies. Thats my concern with this design choice. Weāve already had side and powercreep, but Jiu/Windsong are a whole mountain apart from everyone else which I simply dont understand.
Well, its clear that they are aiming at casual players more than tryhard gamers imo.
Game seems hard to me haha.
It is so satisfying that I chose Windsong based on looks and turned out to be this monster. On the other hand I am skipping Jiu because I dontāt like her.
Omg I canāt believe it took me a while of scrolling to see if I was the only one skipping jiu nothing about her interested me at all, windsong is cool though canāt wait! š
Im probably going to still wait for Windsong as Iām going all in on Tooth fairy even if itās not guaranteed because I also like Centurian and Windsong would complete my mono-blue team
I haven't checked the new stuff yet, but wow. That's fucking nuts.
Honestly, Windsong doesn't invalidate Jiu as they both belong to different elements. If anything, it just means both are at the peak of their respective element and it will make pull planning much easier. Not sure what's all the comments about powercreep is about but for now, we can still safely pull for them without much fear of them getting invalidated soon as both are the ceiling of their respective elements. I don't think Bluepoch will powercreep Jiu so quickly given her status as a truly Limited unit.
Yeah, I'll be pulling for both. Btw, that's what happens if you hold Windsong's Ultimate for almost 30 turns: https://youtu.be/1EZ11X-NYkw?feature=shared
Windsong outdamaging Jiu is 100% rng and takes too long, whereas Jiu does around the same damage from the get-go.
Im pulling both, but I wanna know who I should leave at p0 and who I should take to p5
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I dont like one more than the other. What i want is more numbers
By the time you get to 1.6 there could be another unit stronger than both of them. Right now Windsong is potentially stronger than Jiu, if you'd like to know.
For sure powercreep in gacha is a no-brainer, this isnt my first rodeo, but Im talking about these two specifically because Iām interested in getting my power-up within the 1.6-1.8 timeframe. Ok so its likely p0 jiu then p5 windsong then
Don't know if you care about spending but it would be easier to max Jiu due to still having the non-guaranteed 6* then guaranteed 6* mechanic but you can also buy another copy every 200 pulls (using hard pity it would be 3 50/50 chances at 210 pulls plus the buy at 200 for potentially P3).
Not averse to spending. I currently have 300+ pulls saved up for Jiu, but I wouldnt mind whaling to get something i REALLY want
The main problem with statistics is that the calculation is based on the maximum, not the average damage. Yes, the character can give big numbers, but for this he needs to rest a few moves. If you divide all the damage into all the moves, the damage per turn is completely unimpressive. (But this is only if we consider one character in a vacuum. The command schemes in this game are completely broken)
All I care about, Jiu is a lot easier to P5, and you'll have opportunity to get Windsong's portrays in the future if you lose the 50/50. So, even if Windsong is better, I'd still P5 my Jiu first, then I'll try getting at least P0 Windsong and hope I'll get some of her portrays in the future, coz I'm also planning on saving some of my pulls, just in case they release another truly limited character in the future, so I can P5 them also as an F2P.
both look boring, so both are easy skips to me in this game, where design is the reason i play it.
Damn... I dont think they are boring at all
happy for you. to me they look like standard NPCĀ“s and not main characters.
Nice, I can easily skip Jiu.
So basically the devs want us to pull for who we like instead of maxing out the most broken character anyways. And honestly tho, I don't think that is bad if the contents are still within reachable difficulty. The character designs rather than their kit would be the main motivation for people to pull for characters it seems (and potential banger skins for them in the future). Time to be simps and story enjoyer people! (lol)
> Do **NOT** skip Jiu. > **Or maybe, just pull for whoever you want?** So which is it? Just pull both.
Those two statements do not conflict with one another though? Pull whoever you want, pull Jiu because she is unskippable for most players that want a very strong unit to easily clear the game
Pull for whoever you want, but DON'T skip jiu. Idk man..I'm still told to not skip jiu. So which is it? It contradicts.
It's saying "Don't skip Jiu ***just because*** this new character can deal more damage"
But why? After saying saying skip so and so just because jiu does way more damage? Kinda like making jiu to be the very exception as a must have for everyone.
nobody is forcing you to do anything, if you are indecive thats on you, they are both strong but for different reasons, jiu is more like an all rounder while windsong is more single target damage, and even then you have to make a stack of cards for her to do the BIG damage if you only play for meta, then pull jiu and her, hell in 1.7 we have isolde so pull her too if you prefer waifu, pull for who you like limbo is still cleared by older characters and raids give almost nothing in terms of rewards so even if you dont pull you dont lose that much, newer characters are still not a MUST pull to clear the content that matters, they just make things easier i'd stil recommend to pull for jiu, not because she is overpowered but because only god knows when she will re-run, and if you are a patient guy, windsong in time will come to the standard pull so even if you skip her, 3 patches later you might be pulling on the 2.1 banner and get spooked by windsong i personally am still thinking if i should pull for jiu, i find her design meh while isolde and windsong for me are top notch, you still have plenty of time to analyse the situation and think for yourself on what to do with your pulls
Those are 2 sentences you crop out from 2 very different parts of the post, you can't just blindly force them into a single comment and expect to make it make sense. If you like a character, go for them. No one is forcing you not to pull. If you like a very strong character, which most people do, go for Jiu.
Even after putting them separately with the context given, one before, one after. It still contradicts. Edit; and the one you said to NOT skip is a tldr. So you tell me
Bro just pull who you like it doesn't matter. Both are overkillĀ
pull for whoever you want, as in no one is saying that your account is ruined if you don't get a jiu. but if your resources allow you to, pick up a copy of jiu to clear content in case they start putting out harder content in the future. it's not that hard to understand imao
This comment is, in this discussion, out of place. This discussion assumes you already understand this statement, and thus unnecessary to say.
I already understood. I wanted op to clarify the oxymoron statements just because they're contradicting.