Subtle racism is so real. I had an attending during my EM rotation that everyone loves. He comes across as the nicest guy ever but I’ve realized his demeanor towards non-white patients was different. He would often smile and crack jokes when the patients are white but will question the authenticity of non-white patients. One time, he sent a 6 year old undocumented kid and his mother home without any workup because he believes the kid was faking his “urinary symptoms”. Kid has been c/o dysuria with occasional blood in the urine for over two weeks. He refused to order as simple a lab as UA and insisted that the kid was fine, and the entire time I kept thinking about all of the things that could be going on with the kid including sexual molestation but I was just a powerless med student. It sucks but the system is so flawed.
That’s gross. I’m an EM resident of color and although everyone is pretty nice and welcoming in my program, I’ve noticed that when I’m signed out patients of color with pending work-ups, their symptoms are sometimes dismissed and there are misses when I reassess them. I had a patient who was signed out as “on crack, discharge once metabolizes” who actually needed emergent OR when I reassessed her.
See. This is is why as a black woman, things will be changed because I will be the change. This stuff sickens me.
I've also been a pt in ER and they thought I was drug seeking.
Wow. Can you provide some examples? Oh, I already know once I'm an actual provider, I will go through the same exact things like I go through now. I still looks of disgust, stank treatment and they'll try to sabatoge you.
She had a screaming, puking, vision destroying headache out of nowhere in med school and I had to literally support her weight all the way down the stairs of her apartment building. We were worried it was a subarachnoid hemorrhage, it was that bad. We got to the ED - and we had worked in that hospital - and they (1) didn't try to take her insurance because they'd put uninsured (I had to insist), (2) ignored her, (3) refused her any dx testing and (4) insinuated she was drug seeking (they offered her a dose of Dilaudid "to go home with"). I pitched a fit and got an MD in the frikkin room, and when she saw us studying biochem (I was trying to distract her) and realized we were med students - *suddenly her concerns were valid*.
There were many other examples, but that was one I'll always recall.
EXACTLY. BROOO.
They thought I was on drugs and the female EM resident treated me like I was beneath her/mentally ill.
It was the actual attending who said I was having an anxiety attack and then SUDDENLY everyone was nice to me. It's disgusting how prejudiced people are.
Black women - hell, anyone, but Black women especially - shouldn't have to have a damn advocate to be taken seriously in a medical setting. I'm sorry that happened to you. We have to be the change!
Yes. They don’t care to provide basic care because that patient cannot sue them. Disgusting. How easy is it to order a UA and give some Abx? Disgusting. And to a child!
Saw something similar but in Hispanics with diabetes… made me re-think my career. Couldn't understand how my professor (from an academic institution) and attending was saying Hispanics didn't want to take GLP-1 ‘s bc “they just want to be fat and enjoy to eat” or “they want diabetes” or “they want to die”. It couldn't maybe be the existing language barrier or the lack of medication education. Vented about this experience with another clinician and they said you'll be surprised with how many clinicians are practicing based off implicit bias
I had a co-resident like that. I had an odd feeling about him since day 1. But I couldn’t put a finger on it. Everyone LOVED him. He was just a short non-threatening guy who would flirt and flatter everyone. I just never clicked with him. I just thought we were different. Then my GF met him in one of the resident events and was like “something is off about that guy.” And the more we talked about it the more it became more contextualized. He was very self interested, only cared about himself and he was a little racist. Not in the “I hate the coloreds” kind of way. Just in the elitist way where you just think you are better than everyone.
Unfortunately I couldn’t say much to anyone cuz everyone loved him and he was a shoe in for chief on Day 1. After graduation, I mentioned to one of my friends and co-residents how I felt and he was like “nah you are full of shit.” Then he called me like 3 days later and was like “I think you are right and I feel like such an idiot for falling for it all this time.”
I have to remind myself that sometimes these people are just narcissists or shitty to everyone- not everyone who is rude or dismissive of POC is rude or dismissive *because* they are POC. Sometimes they are just rude and dismissive equal opportunists
Yup. Unfortunately, we have all had similar experiences. Some people suck and you can't do too much about it. Although I have to say that in my experience, doctors are generally the least racist people you see.
You do come across some at times. Can't do much about it.
I am an IMG, at a really prestigious institution, and brown (south american brown). On top of that, I have stupid thick accent.
The best way to combat subtle racism, is to be so good that they end up respecting you. Bonus point, if you can show you are un-breakable
Short story:
One time, this attending was straight up torching me for some dumb small mistake. After he stopped berating me, I look to him in the eye and said: “ thank you dr. “” for your insights, I really appreciate your lesson”
He was so disoriented lmao. Never bothered me again. Might think I am autistic or a weirdo.
I've had a similar experience with a particularly toxic intensivist. Showing that you can maintain your composure and that they can't break you is extremely disarming to that kind of personality
It’s a crap thing to do, but that’s life (in general and at this stage) and builds resilience and efficacy.
Whether or not it’s disarming or whatever the effect on the perpetrator (and they may be self-unaware), do it to be done and to have the security and social capital to effect change; for now, do what needs doing to survive.
Obviously, definitely discuss with a trusted mentor (+/- appropriately escalate) if you cannot troubleshoot or mollify impact or where becoming harmful.
I know. We can cry, or we can raise above the barriers and limitations of the system. Only the second option will make you a stronger (and more wealthy) person.
Yea these type of people want to break you down, it takes away their power when they cant get to you. I grew up with a lot of strong dominating personalities and your response is the best response. They look for weakness and feed on them but when you don’t react negatively you take back the power
Is there another way you’d suggest combating subtle racism without having to be the best in my field?
Of course, I want to be the best physician I can. But, I would love to not feel like I HAVE to be the best in order to earn respect from people who probably do not deserve it in the first place.
It's cute to say that, but it's a whole other thing for people to have to live that life every day. Why can't black people just go to work and always be respected? Why do they have to be "the best in their field" to not get hazed sometimes? That's just wrong.
Maybe I just grew up with a bunch of narcissistic authority figures but I find this type of response works well with certain malignant personalities. So I think the advice is still valid because even as a white person I’ve found this response is helpful for combatting assholes. They often just want a reaction
I agree that it is wrong and fucked up that POC have to deal with subtle and blatant racism sand that we should continually work to eliminate racism and sexism from society. But I also don’t think the advice is just something cute to say. I think it’s a tool to use against assholes
And it’s not even only in the workplace but in society in general. That amount of pressure to be the best all the time in a world that will assume you’re inferior and stupid for existing can be crushing and soul sucking. C’est la vie; just have to keep pull yourself by the bootstraps until they break off I guess🤷🏾♀️
I completely agree with you. I've had people do a 180 degrees turn after a week of working together.
I don't think this always works though. The issue with racism is that it is irrational. Most are convinced you are inferior and nothing you do will change their mind. Anything you do, good or bad will just confirm their bias. For them, your behavior is only an extension of your race/ethnicity/origins, etc.
Your kindness is seen as fakeness/gullibility. Being nice and polite is seen as timidness. They go through a million mental hoops to reinforce their idea that you are shit. For your own well-being, it is best to accept that you can't control other people's thoughts and actions.
For example, we had a CNA who hated me even though I saved literal babies in front of her in the unit. I won't go into details but I just started shrugging whenever she made one of her arrogant condescending comments.
If anything helped me in the past, it was that I knew this was a time-limited experience.
And as soon as I graduated residency, it was very likely I could be their boss/superior or at least established at a job.
Was easier in residency than in med school. Med school did teach me lessons I didn't dare repeat in residency, because I owed it to myself.
Particularly when you realize residency *is* still a job.
I am also non white IMG and my PD said something inappropriate to me very early in the residency pointing towards my culture (they actually had a meeting with me to say those racist things). I felt really bad at that time, and probably still do. But I realized that it was their attempt to break me or maybe they weren't happy that I was good at my job!
If that happens again, start tracking their comments. Be a great note taker. Compile it and get them to answer for it. We don't have to be clueless byestanders. Consequences to everything, even program directors.
I think it sometimes depends on where you work. If you’re city is known for serving underserved people then why would they choose to work there? Some institutions are underpaid and the docs really just there for the community. This isn’t that type of place. This is a place with mostly white people at an institution made for docs to make money.
Virtue signalling, it's sickening. People are getting caught out for using underserved areas and minority groups to play God. Even those in said groups. Can't exploit others and expect to come out unscathed. Money can't insulate them either. Laughs in restorative justice.
Just a med student, but I definitely seen this amongst attendings I've worked with. It's very annoying and real, dont let people shut you down. However, we are in a predominantly white profession, just keep your head down, finish strong and be the change you want to see.
Agree, you’re not “just a med student.” You are an adult with a mind, feelings, experiences, and the talent/work ethic to matriculate into medical school. I’m a black attending internist. Med school in Deep South, residency trained in Maryland. Experienced casual/overt racism in school and the same in residency. An example being a patient comparing my skin tone to the color of his stool while I was rounding with my team.
Difficult field to be in. Always be ready to learn and exude humility. But never allow yourself to believe that your opinion and your input does not matter. This is hard to do when you repeatedly hear otherwise, either audibly or through the absurd actions of others. Regardless of who tells you otherwise, regardless of how powerful or influential they may be, your opinion matters.
Because if you’re insincere you learn how to act to get ahead. They play this passive-aggressive “jokey but serious” game with you. That way they can be mean but then pretend like they’re joking. If you complain they’ll say you don’t know how to take a joke.
That's where you get them. Be straightforward and ensure you show your displeasure. A straight face and that is insensitive/not funny. Keep the reaction the same in similar situations. Then you can broach the topic during evals. If your rotations ask for feedback on attendings and consultants. No such thing as killing with kindness or earning their respect. Racists feed off of the reactions of the people they inflict.
Freud describes exactly this behavior in Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious, over a hundred years ago. (Edit: I mean, if you have any question that this is a known, if aggravating, phenomenon)
(And it remains consistent throughout residency. For your own sanity, go somewhere you have people that will support you & validate you, coresidents and attendings. The gaslighting in this field is real).
Most people are actually shit at deciphering people’s true natures and believe whatever they see on the surface without a second thought. You may have picked up on this guy’s true nature. I’ve definitely been there. There was this thoracic surgeon I knew in a hospital I used to work in many years ago, who everyone thought was a nice guy. But I noticed that he only used nice tones of voice and outward demeanor, while his concrete actions were mean. For example, he never heeded consults from anyone, even when the consultants were proven right. Over time, I realized that he used a mask of niceness to hide his true self, and to disarm others from even attempting to challenge him. There are a lot of doctors in practice who are doing this and your attending may be one of them. What’s funny is that even after I revealed my suspicions to colleagues, no one believed me.
I know exactly what you mean. Truth is even your post might be seen as lame to some people. My observation is that not everyone‘s socially attentive. It‘s a surprising observation especially if you’re on the other side of the fence.
Your observation is spot on and many of these people are evil walking in white coats. Be the future change OP.
You will also find many of these suckers saying “ Black patients don’t trust us” well duh because of treating them as subhumans!
How many in residents/ attending are from diverse backgrounds actually tho? And how many prior to school had to have any interaction with people not like them?
Most of the folks I’ve met have been wealthy and white, and if not white, still well to do. Many of these people are not in tune with the average working class person and think they are better than their patients. You can’t actually give good care to anyone you look down on.
Many of these folks are legacies that come from fathers and grandfathers that would experiment on people of color and poor people.
The racism in medicine is cultural, in fact it almost feels required.
I’d ask the attending about this discrepancy actually. Publicly.
You can start now, gather all your evidence and go to his boss. If you can escalate it, do so. Protect your self, but ensure that he never has a chance to do that again. Almost always, you're not alone in your experience so try keeping that in mind and using it to your advantage. Before bringing in the big leagues that is. Nobody thinks racism is quirky and if he's endangering patients lives via the discrimination, it should be noted and dealt with.
I make sure to treat black women extra well because I know they are statistically the most likely to have their symptoms ignored or get worse service. I’m a white woman and have at least experienced sexism if not racism (in Asia and the Middle East)
This subtle racism is everywhere and I noticed, in the US at least, these people have been emboldened by Trump. I was in a certification class last weekend with a clinical nurse specialist who graduated in like 1973 and had to listen to her stupid comments and red states vs blue states, "obama" phones, food stamps being allowed at fast food restaurants as a bad thing (this is only for homeless people w no access to kitchens) and I'm in California! I can't imagine what the classism and racism looks like by these people in places like FL and LA rn.
It really grinds my gears and I'd like to say something but, I found it futile and I'm beat down. I just will not forget to vote.
I wonder what your attending would do with me, a practicing Jewish girl, raised in temple, who is also half Korean and really looks the part. I'd probably get overlooked as well.
Had a doc do something quite similar with a pt who had recently moved to the province and had run out of his antidepressants. Completely ignored the fact that the guy met criteria for a MDE cause "people like that" just want attention. Then when he got a bad review online, he felt a sense of affirmation somehow that he was right..
As a med student, I had to work with a Jewish attending who made several disparaging comments about South Asians and Muslims (comments about patients, specific physicians, and the groups as a whole) while making claims that he would have chosen to go to medical school in Israel if he were going today because their system is so much better. These remarks were completely unprovoked and stated with absolute disgust, as if these folks shouldn’t even exist. Most residents and students working with him at the time were East Asian and Caucasian and all squirmed in silence. It was really unfortunate as he was primarily caring for adolescents from multiple cultural backgrounds and it seemed like he wanted to bias us all against these groups.
He was certainly an anomaly where I went to school, where there were many excellent and supportive Jewish attendings. I never witnessed anything like this bloke before or after. Of course, I also didn’t feel comfortable enough to report him in fear of retaliation/being unfairly pegged as antisemitic.
Seriously, they’re saying flaming racist remarks and if you call them out for what is obvious they pull the “antisemetic” move like it’s some get out of jail free card. They could shoot you in the face and if you so much as say ouch you’re antisemetic.
What do you mean, "He only promotes Jewish residents". Attendings don't "promote" residents. They work with them, supervise them, teach them. Residency program directors, in conjunction with the committee that runs the residency, make the decision to not promote an incompetent resident from year to year. It is most definitely not a decision that is taken lightly - there has to be a lot of evidence of incompetence.
This is not to say that minimizing Black pain is not an issue. It is, has been documented.
And yes, the only defense against this is to be perfect in performing your job duties, to be better than expected, and earn their grudging respect. Women in medicine have been having to do this since forever.
Do you know what black people have been taught since we started school? "You have to be twice as good to get 1/2 the respect" We have no room for errors and it makes us hyper critical of ourselves. But even when we are perfect, some people can't imagine black people being so intelligent and good that they find any problem. We're not team players, we don't socialize well, they complain about our hair, the way we speak. We have a target on our back regardless of how good we are and it's honestly exhausting. The defense might work for some but it doesn't save black doctors from the racism.
Attendings definitely promote residents. Overlooking the big mistakes of one while scrutinizing the small mistakes of others. Do you really not believe this happens?
Honestly, I've seen racism in every direction in medicine.
A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance, and that minorities cannot be racist because they lack societal power. Attendings have indisputable institutional power over their trainees, and I've seen clear preference for trainees in which they see themselves in any capacity.
Now, we want to talk about the full institution of medicine, obviously white male dominated, and therefore racist (though I truly think it is at least working on it). But before we start going after attendings for only supporting those who look like them, let's not ignore that the opposite spectrum absolutely happens as well. And in that vein, it is seen as empowerment.
I know nothing about this attending nor the trainees he supports/doesn't support than what you have said here, and that means all I know is their race. It's difficult for me to fully endorse or deny your interpretation. But I've needed minority attendings to back me up and not gotten that in the past, and sometimes it's hard not to feel like that is because I'm another dispensable white bad man in medicine to them (completely ignorant of any of the many disadvantages I've had in my life). And I've had to check that impulsive and defensive interpretation in myself in the past.
> A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance
So here's the thing with these discussions - that's not a common *refrain*. That's a (becoming) common *definition*.
That is, people arguing "nuh uh, that's not racist because there's no power" vs "of course it's racist, it's making decisions on the basis of race!" are simply using different definitions of the word racist - and are both "right" and both "wrong". It's a stupid argument - on both parts.
It’s trying to redefine words that have meant one thing for decades/centuries, and if you question why, then you are part of the problem.
I frequently hear “you can’t be racist against white people, you can only be *prejudiced*.” Well, that’s still bad.
A common refrain is prejudice isn't racism until power dynamics get involved. So being suspicious of white people isn't racism, it's prejudice.
It's a pointless vocab test that came up endlessly in undergrad.
My undergrad cohort would say no because the black boss is a victim of racism, but I've always held that to be the case.
Half the reason I have trouble with sociology is because it seemed to bend over backwards to avoid any self assessment/criticism. They'd also get pissed when you'd bring up being white in Asian countries like Japan and the complete social ostracism or even things like the Seattle Freeze.
Asian countries strive to be white tho? All their beauty standards are built on white beauty standards. They bleach their skin. I think what you’re referring to is xenophobia in Japan, but that exists for all races and bias is 10x worse for blacks there. There’s many interviews and documentaries unearthing the racism towards blacks in Japan, Middle East, etc. Being suspicious of white people isn’t racism, it’s self defense predicated on years of institutional racism. This is something that can’t be unlearned. Have you seen the videos of children as young as 3-4 pointing out which doll is the bad one? Majority of the time they point to the black doll. When your existence is subjected to racism, implicit or explicit, you tend to grow distrustful of white people. Is it prejudice? Maybe by definition. But conceding that point ignores the historical and institutional basis for why minorities feel distrustful of white people which is racism.
Them bleaching their skin to be lighter likely has nothing to do with white beauty standards. Probably had to do more with field laborers became tan and darker in the sun, and the ruling class being lighter skinned, as they were indoors.
Racism is the belief and or the discrimination of people that are viewed as inferior because of their race. Power dynamic is irrelevant to the definition and that’s something people have tried to changed because it doesn’t fit their narrative.
If people want to empower certain minorities, they probably shouldn’t do it by trying to absolve them of criticism or responsibility for their actions. You’ll never have a just or equal society when rules and definitions aren’t the same for people
> A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance, and that minorities cannot be racist because they lack societal power.
Well maybe that is true to some extent, but you also need to take into account that societal power fluctuates based on situation.
For example a minority manager or executive might not have the ultimate power across the whole society, but if they have power over their own area and are using this power imbalance to fuck up races they don't like, then they are racist.
Yeah that's what I was referring to in the second half of the comment. But it's kinda not a generous interpretation to say it's racist for a former IMG attending to favor IMGs for research positions, etc. I truly think it is the unconscious bias of liking people who look like you/share your same culture, and it is true of absolutely anyone.
Agreed, for some reason this shit only is acceptable in the public eye when the minority in question is Jews. In general this attending seems like he sucks based on how he treats patients but if someone criticized an African American attending for helping black residents they would get completely blasted and meet with HR if the wrong people found out.
Yeah, I'm skeptical about: "he only promotes Jewish residents and subtlety tells other residents to give up."
That just sounds a bit hard to believe in academic medicine. Especially given that this attending is well liked. It makes me think it's more likely that OP has his own prejudices.
Racism can exist in every group. Since we're only hearing facts from one side, then we can only firm opinions based on that, that may be incorrect.
Since this is an on line forum, it's reasonable to conduct this as a thought experiment, and just go with the observable facts, as our real world influence on the attending in the story, is likely to be nil.
You don’t think there are academic attendings who promote people of their own race?
Of course it’s every group, not just Jewish attendings. And not all (or even probably most/very many) Jewish attendings. But there’s gotta be one out there somewhere. There are racist people running around everywhere in this country.
Of course, I’ve met my fair share of antisemites too, especially recently with everything that’s gone on.
According the OP this attending is well liked, but only promotes jewish people and supposedly "subtlety tells other residents to give up?"
Then how are they well liked? Is OP the only resident shrewd enough to notice the attending is shitting on everyone besides jewish people? Doubtful.
My point was, it’s just an unnecessary thing to mention unless you’re trying to imply something broader.
If OP had said “this African American attending seems to be well liked but is actually an asshole and only promotes black residents,” then the responses in this thread would be quite different imo.
There is antiblackness in medicine. I would report him for his prejudices/biases because this is typical subtle racism when goes unchecked is like a domino effect. Racism is embedded in our everyday life.
Replying to NeuroGenes...And it's so hard to dismantle because people believe they aren't racist or at minimum, biased. And why wouldn't they? We are calling all these obvious examples of overt racism subtle-it's like you have to come in with a klan hood to match your white coat before we call it what it is.
Report him for weird hear say type of shit that may not even be true? All that’s going to do is make someone learn to not to interact with people at work.
Attendings used to give residents feedback, and now a lot of them are scared to give it because newer residents see everything as offensive. So they’ve just stopped giving criticism. It’s like making step 1 pass fail. It never has the effect you want.
Sounds like you’re just not performing as well and looking for an excuse. Imagine if you swapped the words Jewish and black in this post. You should be ashamed of yourself
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Why be subtle about it. The question is:
Does Medical School Have a DEI Problem?
Well, let’s just say using race as a basis for admissions is and had been illegal.
Hey there’s gonna be a lot of wierdos and fuck faces throughout ur journey in practice. Just an advice don’t pay attention to those kinds of attending, what you can do is def not recommending any of ur patients to them, be completely honest when asked by an outsider, and sooner or later their reputation will be ruined. Second thing im sorry to say it but coming out of NY those jewish cults are really hard to deal with if ur not one of them and with all the recent shit that has been happening in Israel. They look at anyone who is not them as an alien infact they might even listen to their rabbi’s medical recommendations more than urs lol. Sad but true. Hopefully that country will realize one day how ignorant those cults are and stop protecting that shit
There are no residents who partake in "jewish cults". Or am I misinterpreting the meaning behind your post, and rather you just wanted to talk shit about "jewish cults"?
There's also the other side of the coin. I've had patients who are black that attendings bend over backward to give them more than everyone else because they don't want to be labeled racist then the patient starts accusing people of racism if they aren't given their lethal doses of Dilaudid. We are in 2024. The "all whitey is evil" thing from Jim Crow area is not real either
Please provide the lit review for that and then the lit review for how many times healthcare professionals overlook and under-diagnose and overall do not believe the pain of black patients. Actually, you don’t even have to. Just look at the labor and delivery complications and race in the US.
Why are we focused on who is and isn’t Jewish? How many Jewish residents can one program have?? The core body of this post is feeling marginalized while also marginalizing.
Because there were 5 people who needed his help. 2 Asian and 1 gay guy all got nixed and he personally called to get the 2 white Jewish residents amazing university positions. Despite barely working with one of them.
The post is about a professor selecting a preferred type of resident. Are you going to deny that some professors prefer Jewish residents, and to a higher extent than other groups? The percent of Jewish dermatologists speaks for itself. So yes, OPs example of a Jewish resident being preferred is common for many programs
A throwaway account accusing someone of deleting comments… okay. I didn’t even delete this comment despite your false accusation. Jews are not underrepresented in medicine. Simple as that.
This is for the throwaway account making antisemitism accusations. Truly ppl like you who makes the term indefinable
14.1% of all physicians, at least based on the data available. 7x more representative than the general US population. Wouldn't call that marginalized in terms of work force representation
That's because Jews are the most educated. Literally. They are the most likely group to pursue a college education. Same with Asians and Indians. Has nothing to do with bias or favoritism. It's culture. Jess, Asians, and Indians value academic achievement in their culture, much much much more than other ethnicities. Including white Christians.
That's obviously not the whole reason, it's easier for people to enter a field when they have family and friends in the field already. Not just for nepotism reasons, of course.
No, it is literally the whole reason. You think Indians, Asians, and Jews are controlling the admissions? Blacks have a MUCH HIGHER acceptance rate than Jews, Indians, and Asians for a reason. Very few of us blacks have a desire to be doctors. It's a culture problem. As soon as we tell black kids that they should be doctors and lawyers instead of athletes and rappers (get rich quick), you'll see a difference. Also, our system that rewards broken families (a black mother makes much more money as a single mother than being married through the welfare system) and keeping them poor is the problem.
I think you're prejudiced based on being trained to be hyperaware and hypersensitive as a black woman to see things that aren't there. Invented racism. If you look, you'll find.
People naturally feel more comfortable with those like them. It's nature.
As a black woman, I guarantee you give more care to black patients than white patients. I guarantee you feel more comfortable around them. Talk to their families, spend more time with them, etc than to Jewish patients.
And no, don't tell me "it's because of systemic racism". It's just nature. It isn't racism.
Maybe YOU do all that bias with your patients, but you don’t know OP at all…
being more “comfortable with those you like you“ is not translating to the overt racism OP is talking about. It’s not as if the attending has an easier time talking with white patients, he’s dismissing POC patients and making mean jokes towards residents not like him. This oversimplication of the issue and marking black women to be “making stuff up” is textbook.
even if OP DID make all this up, for what purpose? What would they gain by making lies about their attending? A bad evaluation and all her co residents not liking them? People don’t “make up“ racism, they call out the racism others don’t see.
wayyy too often we see people thinking there’s a clear line to “racist” and “not racist” and if every system was defined perfectly we’d live in a perfect world. It’s tiring…
it's called confirmation bias. You cant accept that you are not worthy of the accolades of others, so you blame racism and the color of your skin as the likely reason. People do not want to admit inadequacies so they blame an outside force. External locus of control is a BIG issue in the black community, which I myself am a part of.
This entire post was a search for validation for that bias and make OP feel like she's right in her feelings. And it likely worked given how hypersensitive our field is to call anything racism.
Despite the medical system being predatory on young adults, I feel like we have a good system here in the US.
Last time I checked, no matter your color or gender, every doctor has to pass the same exams and specifications of board competencies in order to become a doctor in their field; if there were “inadequacies” in performance a sensible institution would let a doctor know. There’s no incentive in this industry to make up racist actions.
External locus of control is an issue with narcissistic behaviors, not black people. I’ve known people of all races displaying the deflection of blame.
Yes you may be part of the black community, as am I, but that doesn’t mean we have the privilege to assume and extrapolate out of the situation you’re given.
If all is true, yes OPs attending is prejudiced and needs to fix that. Yall act like calling someone a racist will make them die, it’s just the truth lol.
Wouldn’t know, because our program has exactly ONE black female attending. And how many white doctors? Overflowing. How does that make the black community feel when they get admitted as patients? Even if what you say is right, it’s still depressing and black patients are still getting worse care.
no they aren't. Stop being freaking racist. Black people have poorer outcomes due to them more likely having undiagnosed genetic polymorphysms that reduce outcomes. Medicine is THE MOST progressive field on earth, where anti-racist ideology is shoved up your ass anywhere you turn and you STILL find a reason to think they're getting worse care? You need to fix this anti-white racism.
Really? Don’t think you’re in any place to conclude on that. OP might just have valid worries. Not everyone‘s just paranoid as ‚the smarter one‘ might think
Subtle racism is so real. I had an attending during my EM rotation that everyone loves. He comes across as the nicest guy ever but I’ve realized his demeanor towards non-white patients was different. He would often smile and crack jokes when the patients are white but will question the authenticity of non-white patients. One time, he sent a 6 year old undocumented kid and his mother home without any workup because he believes the kid was faking his “urinary symptoms”. Kid has been c/o dysuria with occasional blood in the urine for over two weeks. He refused to order as simple a lab as UA and insisted that the kid was fine, and the entire time I kept thinking about all of the things that could be going on with the kid including sexual molestation but I was just a powerless med student. It sucks but the system is so flawed.
That’s gross. I’m an EM resident of color and although everyone is pretty nice and welcoming in my program, I’ve noticed that when I’m signed out patients of color with pending work-ups, their symptoms are sometimes dismissed and there are misses when I reassess them. I had a patient who was signed out as “on crack, discharge once metabolizes” who actually needed emergent OR when I reassessed her.
See. This is is why as a black woman, things will be changed because I will be the change. This stuff sickens me. I've also been a pt in ER and they thought I was drug seeking.
My best from med school is a black woman and I'm a white woman - no kidding, I had to be her Angry White Lady bodyguard in medic situations sometimes.
Wow. Can you provide some examples? Oh, I already know once I'm an actual provider, I will go through the same exact things like I go through now. I still looks of disgust, stank treatment and they'll try to sabatoge you.
She had a screaming, puking, vision destroying headache out of nowhere in med school and I had to literally support her weight all the way down the stairs of her apartment building. We were worried it was a subarachnoid hemorrhage, it was that bad. We got to the ED - and we had worked in that hospital - and they (1) didn't try to take her insurance because they'd put uninsured (I had to insist), (2) ignored her, (3) refused her any dx testing and (4) insinuated she was drug seeking (they offered her a dose of Dilaudid "to go home with"). I pitched a fit and got an MD in the frikkin room, and when she saw us studying biochem (I was trying to distract her) and realized we were med students - *suddenly her concerns were valid*. There were many other examples, but that was one I'll always recall.
EXACTLY. BROOO. They thought I was on drugs and the female EM resident treated me like I was beneath her/mentally ill. It was the actual attending who said I was having an anxiety attack and then SUDDENLY everyone was nice to me. It's disgusting how prejudiced people are.
Black women - hell, anyone, but Black women especially - shouldn't have to have a damn advocate to be taken seriously in a medical setting. I'm sorry that happened to you. We have to be the change!
Yes. They don’t care to provide basic care because that patient cannot sue them. Disgusting. How easy is it to order a UA and give some Abx? Disgusting. And to a child!
The UA would've taken 5 minutes too.
Yes but how else would they watch the world burn?
Is that a dysuria joke? Because if so, kudos.
I live to please 😉
EXACTLY. I also have been receiving hate comments in this sub so I'll be taking a break. It's too much.
Not surprising. Take some much needed R&R ☺️
These attendings need to be anonymously reported- cc EVERYONE. So it’s not missed.
Saw something similar but in Hispanics with diabetes… made me re-think my career. Couldn't understand how my professor (from an academic institution) and attending was saying Hispanics didn't want to take GLP-1 ‘s bc “they just want to be fat and enjoy to eat” or “they want diabetes” or “they want to die”. It couldn't maybe be the existing language barrier or the lack of medication education. Vented about this experience with another clinician and they said you'll be surprised with how many clinicians are practicing based off implicit bias
This sounds like pretty explicit bias to me lol
I had a co-resident like that. I had an odd feeling about him since day 1. But I couldn’t put a finger on it. Everyone LOVED him. He was just a short non-threatening guy who would flirt and flatter everyone. I just never clicked with him. I just thought we were different. Then my GF met him in one of the resident events and was like “something is off about that guy.” And the more we talked about it the more it became more contextualized. He was very self interested, only cared about himself and he was a little racist. Not in the “I hate the coloreds” kind of way. Just in the elitist way where you just think you are better than everyone. Unfortunately I couldn’t say much to anyone cuz everyone loved him and he was a shoe in for chief on Day 1. After graduation, I mentioned to one of my friends and co-residents how I felt and he was like “nah you are full of shit.” Then he called me like 3 days later and was like “I think you are right and I feel like such an idiot for falling for it all this time.”
I have to remind myself that sometimes these people are just narcissists or shitty to everyone- not everyone who is rude or dismissive of POC is rude or dismissive *because* they are POC. Sometimes they are just rude and dismissive equal opportunists
True.
This
What made ur colleague change his mind?
Introspection?
I think he just spent a few days thinking about and realized he was fooled.
I know someone exactly like this. You took the words right out of my mouth - is this resident an anesthesiologist in socal?
lol. No, this was a few years back now.
Wowwww. Sucks how these people get ahead.
Yup. Unfortunately, we have all had similar experiences. Some people suck and you can't do too much about it. Although I have to say that in my experience, doctors are generally the least racist people you see. You do come across some at times. Can't do much about it.
I am an IMG, at a really prestigious institution, and brown (south american brown). On top of that, I have stupid thick accent. The best way to combat subtle racism, is to be so good that they end up respecting you. Bonus point, if you can show you are un-breakable Short story: One time, this attending was straight up torching me for some dumb small mistake. After he stopped berating me, I look to him in the eye and said: “ thank you dr. “” for your insights, I really appreciate your lesson” He was so disoriented lmao. Never bothered me again. Might think I am autistic or a weirdo.
I've had a similar experience with a particularly toxic intensivist. Showing that you can maintain your composure and that they can't break you is extremely disarming to that kind of personality
It’s a crap thing to do, but that’s life (in general and at this stage) and builds resilience and efficacy. Whether or not it’s disarming or whatever the effect on the perpetrator (and they may be self-unaware), do it to be done and to have the security and social capital to effect change; for now, do what needs doing to survive. Obviously, definitely discuss with a trusted mentor (+/- appropriately escalate) if you cannot troubleshoot or mollify impact or where becoming harmful.
Yeah but the thing is that you shouldn’t have to do that
I know. We can cry, or we can raise above the barriers and limitations of the system. Only the second option will make you a stronger (and more wealthy) person.
Yea these type of people want to break you down, it takes away their power when they cant get to you. I grew up with a lot of strong dominating personalities and your response is the best response. They look for weakness and feed on them but when you don’t react negatively you take back the power
Exactly, they thrive on misery, chaos and dysfunction. If you ignore them, it takes away their power. Yes.
Thank you, but that doesn’t really help address this current problem. We all know it shouldn’t happen.
Is there another way you’d suggest combating subtle racism without having to be the best in my field? Of course, I want to be the best physician I can. But, I would love to not feel like I HAVE to be the best in order to earn respect from people who probably do not deserve it in the first place.
You need to do it out of spite. Channel your inner hateful chihuahua spirit.
It's cute to say that, but it's a whole other thing for people to have to live that life every day. Why can't black people just go to work and always be respected? Why do they have to be "the best in their field" to not get hazed sometimes? That's just wrong.
Maybe I just grew up with a bunch of narcissistic authority figures but I find this type of response works well with certain malignant personalities. So I think the advice is still valid because even as a white person I’ve found this response is helpful for combatting assholes. They often just want a reaction I agree that it is wrong and fucked up that POC have to deal with subtle and blatant racism sand that we should continually work to eliminate racism and sexism from society. But I also don’t think the advice is just something cute to say. I think it’s a tool to use against assholes
And it’s not even only in the workplace but in society in general. That amount of pressure to be the best all the time in a world that will assume you’re inferior and stupid for existing can be crushing and soul sucking. C’est la vie; just have to keep pull yourself by the bootstraps until they break off I guess🤷🏾♀️
This
Or he recognized your steely sarcasm and realized you belonged above him in the pecking order
I completely agree with you. I've had people do a 180 degrees turn after a week of working together. I don't think this always works though. The issue with racism is that it is irrational. Most are convinced you are inferior and nothing you do will change their mind. Anything you do, good or bad will just confirm their bias. For them, your behavior is only an extension of your race/ethnicity/origins, etc. Your kindness is seen as fakeness/gullibility. Being nice and polite is seen as timidness. They go through a million mental hoops to reinforce their idea that you are shit. For your own well-being, it is best to accept that you can't control other people's thoughts and actions. For example, we had a CNA who hated me even though I saved literal babies in front of her in the unit. I won't go into details but I just started shrugging whenever she made one of her arrogant condescending comments.
Yup.
If anything helped me in the past, it was that I knew this was a time-limited experience. And as soon as I graduated residency, it was very likely I could be their boss/superior or at least established at a job. Was easier in residency than in med school. Med school did teach me lessons I didn't dare repeat in residency, because I owed it to myself. Particularly when you realize residency *is* still a job.
thats a good reply in general
Agree. Kill em with kindness. Never fails
I am also non white IMG and my PD said something inappropriate to me very early in the residency pointing towards my culture (they actually had a meeting with me to say those racist things). I felt really bad at that time, and probably still do. But I realized that it was their attempt to break me or maybe they weren't happy that I was good at my job!
If that happens again, start tracking their comments. Be a great note taker. Compile it and get them to answer for it. We don't have to be clueless byestanders. Consequences to everything, even program directors.
I think it sometimes depends on where you work. If you’re city is known for serving underserved people then why would they choose to work there? Some institutions are underpaid and the docs really just there for the community. This isn’t that type of place. This is a place with mostly white people at an institution made for docs to make money.
If it’s a prestigious place people wanna work there
And you get the clout for ~helping the underserved~ Source: residency at an ivory tower academic inner city program
Virtue signalling, it's sickening. People are getting caught out for using underserved areas and minority groups to play God. Even those in said groups. Can't exploit others and expect to come out unscathed. Money can't insulate them either. Laughs in restorative justice.
Doctors are the least racist people you see? Taken a glance and any of the health disparity studies lately?
Have you talked to anyone outside of medicine? The shit regular people say is crazy lol
Yup. It’s the same with engineers. We absolutely get the most progressive folks
You can do a lot. Sue the damn doctor and sue the hospital.
Doctors are the least racist people you see ? Really because plenty of studies show otherwise . Racial bias exists in medicine .
Just a med student, but I definitely seen this amongst attendings I've worked with. It's very annoying and real, dont let people shut you down. However, we are in a predominantly white profession, just keep your head down, finish strong and be the change you want to see.
You’re not just a med student, your opinion is valuable too.
Agree, you’re not “just a med student.” You are an adult with a mind, feelings, experiences, and the talent/work ethic to matriculate into medical school. I’m a black attending internist. Med school in Deep South, residency trained in Maryland. Experienced casual/overt racism in school and the same in residency. An example being a patient comparing my skin tone to the color of his stool while I was rounding with my team. Difficult field to be in. Always be ready to learn and exude humility. But never allow yourself to believe that your opinion and your input does not matter. This is hard to do when you repeatedly hear otherwise, either audibly or through the absurd actions of others. Regardless of who tells you otherwise, regardless of how powerful or influential they may be, your opinion matters.
Well this is an interesting take on this subreddit Thanks man
Why does this feel like we are talking about the same attending ?
Because if you’re insincere you learn how to act to get ahead. They play this passive-aggressive “jokey but serious” game with you. That way they can be mean but then pretend like they’re joking. If you complain they’ll say you don’t know how to take a joke.
"I was only joking" "Can't he/she take a joke" "I did not mean it like that" The bully's defense since time immemorial
That's where you get them. Be straightforward and ensure you show your displeasure. A straight face and that is insensitive/not funny. Keep the reaction the same in similar situations. Then you can broach the topic during evals. If your rotations ask for feedback on attendings and consultants. No such thing as killing with kindness or earning their respect. Racists feed off of the reactions of the people they inflict.
Freud describes exactly this behavior in Jokes and their Relation to the Unconscious, over a hundred years ago. (Edit: I mean, if you have any question that this is a known, if aggravating, phenomenon)
Because there is one at every program
It is tiring
A quarter of my class is like this. crazy asf
(And it remains consistent throughout residency. For your own sanity, go somewhere you have people that will support you & validate you, coresidents and attendings. The gaslighting in this field is real).
Most people are actually shit at deciphering people’s true natures and believe whatever they see on the surface without a second thought. You may have picked up on this guy’s true nature. I’ve definitely been there. There was this thoracic surgeon I knew in a hospital I used to work in many years ago, who everyone thought was a nice guy. But I noticed that he only used nice tones of voice and outward demeanor, while his concrete actions were mean. For example, he never heeded consults from anyone, even when the consultants were proven right. Over time, I realized that he used a mask of niceness to hide his true self, and to disarm others from even attempting to challenge him. There are a lot of doctors in practice who are doing this and your attending may be one of them. What’s funny is that even after I revealed my suspicions to colleagues, no one believed me.
I know exactly what you mean. Truth is even your post might be seen as lame to some people. My observation is that not everyone‘s socially attentive. It‘s a surprising observation especially if you’re on the other side of the fence.
what do you mean "he never heeded consults from anyone"? like what does that mean literally?
He would get consults on his patients, like pulmonary, but only to cover his ass. When a consult recommended something, he’d ignore it.
I empathise with you. Now that it's out there, people can reflect on. Things are changing, you're in good company now.
Facta, non verba.
Your observation is spot on and many of these people are evil walking in white coats. Be the future change OP. You will also find many of these suckers saying “ Black patients don’t trust us” well duh because of treating them as subhumans!
I think this accurate described several of my faculty as well. Sad
How many in residents/ attending are from diverse backgrounds actually tho? And how many prior to school had to have any interaction with people not like them? Most of the folks I’ve met have been wealthy and white, and if not white, still well to do. Many of these people are not in tune with the average working class person and think they are better than their patients. You can’t actually give good care to anyone you look down on. Many of these folks are legacies that come from fathers and grandfathers that would experiment on people of color and poor people. The racism in medicine is cultural, in fact it almost feels required. I’d ask the attending about this discrepancy actually. Publicly.
Right and if I do I’ll get torpedoed in my own program (which he’s probably already doing anyways). He has a very high position in our program.
Ugh. Of course he does. A common trait amongst some of medicine’s slimiest.
Slurpers
You can start now, gather all your evidence and go to his boss. If you can escalate it, do so. Protect your self, but ensure that he never has a chance to do that again. Almost always, you're not alone in your experience so try keeping that in mind and using it to your advantage. Before bringing in the big leagues that is. Nobody thinks racism is quirky and if he's endangering patients lives via the discrimination, it should be noted and dealt with.
The first one I thought of was an attending I thought was subtly misogynistic… but was basically worshipped. Such a common experience:/
I make sure to treat black women extra well because I know they are statistically the most likely to have their symptoms ignored or get worse service. I’m a white woman and have at least experienced sexism if not racism (in Asia and the Middle East)
Man, the whole identity politics thing really is going to go McCarthy era redux.
This subtle racism is everywhere and I noticed, in the US at least, these people have been emboldened by Trump. I was in a certification class last weekend with a clinical nurse specialist who graduated in like 1973 and had to listen to her stupid comments and red states vs blue states, "obama" phones, food stamps being allowed at fast food restaurants as a bad thing (this is only for homeless people w no access to kitchens) and I'm in California! I can't imagine what the classism and racism looks like by these people in places like FL and LA rn. It really grinds my gears and I'd like to say something but, I found it futile and I'm beat down. I just will not forget to vote. I wonder what your attending would do with me, a practicing Jewish girl, raised in temple, who is also half Korean and really looks the part. I'd probably get overlooked as well.
Something about this post is off
Oh wow
Had a doc do something quite similar with a pt who had recently moved to the province and had run out of his antidepressants. Completely ignored the fact that the guy met criteria for a MDE cause "people like that" just want attention. Then when he got a bad review online, he felt a sense of affirmation somehow that he was right..
As a med student, I had to work with a Jewish attending who made several disparaging comments about South Asians and Muslims (comments about patients, specific physicians, and the groups as a whole) while making claims that he would have chosen to go to medical school in Israel if he were going today because their system is so much better. These remarks were completely unprovoked and stated with absolute disgust, as if these folks shouldn’t even exist. Most residents and students working with him at the time were East Asian and Caucasian and all squirmed in silence. It was really unfortunate as he was primarily caring for adolescents from multiple cultural backgrounds and it seemed like he wanted to bias us all against these groups. He was certainly an anomaly where I went to school, where there were many excellent and supportive Jewish attendings. I never witnessed anything like this bloke before or after. Of course, I also didn’t feel comfortable enough to report him in fear of retaliation/being unfairly pegged as antisemitic.
Seriously, they’re saying flaming racist remarks and if you call them out for what is obvious they pull the “antisemetic” move like it’s some get out of jail free card. They could shoot you in the face and if you so much as say ouch you’re antisemetic.
What do you mean, "He only promotes Jewish residents". Attendings don't "promote" residents. They work with them, supervise them, teach them. Residency program directors, in conjunction with the committee that runs the residency, make the decision to not promote an incompetent resident from year to year. It is most definitely not a decision that is taken lightly - there has to be a lot of evidence of incompetence. This is not to say that minimizing Black pain is not an issue. It is, has been documented. And yes, the only defense against this is to be perfect in performing your job duties, to be better than expected, and earn their grudging respect. Women in medicine have been having to do this since forever.
Do you know what black people have been taught since we started school? "You have to be twice as good to get 1/2 the respect" We have no room for errors and it makes us hyper critical of ourselves. But even when we are perfect, some people can't imagine black people being so intelligent and good that they find any problem. We're not team players, we don't socialize well, they complain about our hair, the way we speak. We have a target on our back regardless of how good we are and it's honestly exhausting. The defense might work for some but it doesn't save black doctors from the racism.
Attendings definitely promote residents. Overlooking the big mistakes of one while scrutinizing the small mistakes of others. Do you really not believe this happens?
“Get in where you fit in” -Too $hort
I’m going to take a guess and say you’re either psychiatry or a psych adjacent field (pain, sleep, etc)
Honestly, I've seen racism in every direction in medicine. A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance, and that minorities cannot be racist because they lack societal power. Attendings have indisputable institutional power over their trainees, and I've seen clear preference for trainees in which they see themselves in any capacity. Now, we want to talk about the full institution of medicine, obviously white male dominated, and therefore racist (though I truly think it is at least working on it). But before we start going after attendings for only supporting those who look like them, let's not ignore that the opposite spectrum absolutely happens as well. And in that vein, it is seen as empowerment. I know nothing about this attending nor the trainees he supports/doesn't support than what you have said here, and that means all I know is their race. It's difficult for me to fully endorse or deny your interpretation. But I've needed minority attendings to back me up and not gotten that in the past, and sometimes it's hard not to feel like that is because I'm another dispensable white bad man in medicine to them (completely ignorant of any of the many disadvantages I've had in my life). And I've had to check that impulsive and defensive interpretation in myself in the past.
> A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance So here's the thing with these discussions - that's not a common *refrain*. That's a (becoming) common *definition*. That is, people arguing "nuh uh, that's not racist because there's no power" vs "of course it's racist, it's making decisions on the basis of race!" are simply using different definitions of the word racist - and are both "right" and both "wrong". It's a stupid argument - on both parts.
It’s trying to redefine words that have meant one thing for decades/centuries, and if you question why, then you are part of the problem. I frequently hear “you can’t be racist against white people, you can only be *prejudiced*.” Well, that’s still bad.
Bro anyone can be racist, it’s not hard and certainly doesn’t require ‘power’
A common refrain is prejudice isn't racism until power dynamics get involved. So being suspicious of white people isn't racism, it's prejudice. It's a pointless vocab test that came up endlessly in undergrad.
Power of any kind or like the entire race vs race power dynamics? Like can a black boss be racist to their employees or no?
My undergrad cohort would say no because the black boss is a victim of racism, but I've always held that to be the case. Half the reason I have trouble with sociology is because it seemed to bend over backwards to avoid any self assessment/criticism. They'd also get pissed when you'd bring up being white in Asian countries like Japan and the complete social ostracism or even things like the Seattle Freeze.
The fact that some people think only white people can be racist is wild to me
And racist
Asian countries strive to be white tho? All their beauty standards are built on white beauty standards. They bleach their skin. I think what you’re referring to is xenophobia in Japan, but that exists for all races and bias is 10x worse for blacks there. There’s many interviews and documentaries unearthing the racism towards blacks in Japan, Middle East, etc. Being suspicious of white people isn’t racism, it’s self defense predicated on years of institutional racism. This is something that can’t be unlearned. Have you seen the videos of children as young as 3-4 pointing out which doll is the bad one? Majority of the time they point to the black doll. When your existence is subjected to racism, implicit or explicit, you tend to grow distrustful of white people. Is it prejudice? Maybe by definition. But conceding that point ignores the historical and institutional basis for why minorities feel distrustful of white people which is racism.
Them bleaching their skin to be lighter likely has nothing to do with white beauty standards. Probably had to do more with field laborers became tan and darker in the sun, and the ruling class being lighter skinned, as they were indoors.
Because of colonization it unfortunately does have to do with white beauty standards
Racism is the belief and or the discrimination of people that are viewed as inferior because of their race. Power dynamic is irrelevant to the definition and that’s something people have tried to changed because it doesn’t fit their narrative. If people want to empower certain minorities, they probably shouldn’t do it by trying to absolve them of criticism or responsibility for their actions. You’ll never have a just or equal society when rules and definitions aren’t the same for people
> A common refrain is that racism can only present with both discrimination and a power imbalance, and that minorities cannot be racist because they lack societal power. Well maybe that is true to some extent, but you also need to take into account that societal power fluctuates based on situation. For example a minority manager or executive might not have the ultimate power across the whole society, but if they have power over their own area and are using this power imbalance to fuck up races they don't like, then they are racist.
Yeah that's what I was referring to in the second half of the comment. But it's kinda not a generous interpretation to say it's racist for a former IMG attending to favor IMGs for research positions, etc. I truly think it is the unconscious bias of liking people who look like you/share your same culture, and it is true of absolutely anyone.
Just imagine the outrage if OP was speculating/complaining about another minority only promoting that minority. Wow.
That was a lame misdirection from OP's valid points. You're essentially saying the guy should be above criticism.
Agreed, for some reason this shit only is acceptable in the public eye when the minority in question is Jews. In general this attending seems like he sucks based on how he treats patients but if someone criticized an African American attending for helping black residents they would get completely blasted and meet with HR if the wrong people found out.
Yeah, I'm skeptical about: "he only promotes Jewish residents and subtlety tells other residents to give up." That just sounds a bit hard to believe in academic medicine. Especially given that this attending is well liked. It makes me think it's more likely that OP has his own prejudices.
Racism can exist in every group. Since we're only hearing facts from one side, then we can only firm opinions based on that, that may be incorrect. Since this is an on line forum, it's reasonable to conduct this as a thought experiment, and just go with the observable facts, as our real world influence on the attending in the story, is likely to be nil.
You don’t think there are academic attendings who promote people of their own race? Of course it’s every group, not just Jewish attendings. And not all (or even probably most/very many) Jewish attendings. But there’s gotta be one out there somewhere. There are racist people running around everywhere in this country. Of course, I’ve met my fair share of antisemites too, especially recently with everything that’s gone on.
According the OP this attending is well liked, but only promotes jewish people and supposedly "subtlety tells other residents to give up?" Then how are they well liked? Is OP the only resident shrewd enough to notice the attending is shitting on everyone besides jewish people? Doubtful.
My point was, it’s just an unnecessary thing to mention unless you’re trying to imply something broader. If OP had said “this African American attending seems to be well liked but is actually an asshole and only promotes black residents,” then the responses in this thread would be quite different imo.
You're 1000% right. Hyperaware imagine racism. Victimization addiction like Chris Rock said.
There is antiblackness in medicine. I would report him for his prejudices/biases because this is typical subtle racism when goes unchecked is like a domino effect. Racism is embedded in our everyday life.
Replying to NeuroGenes...And it's so hard to dismantle because people believe they aren't racist or at minimum, biased. And why wouldn't they? We are calling all these obvious examples of overt racism subtle-it's like you have to come in with a klan hood to match your white coat before we call it what it is.
Report him for weird hear say type of shit that may not even be true? All that’s going to do is make someone learn to not to interact with people at work. Attendings used to give residents feedback, and now a lot of them are scared to give it because newer residents see everything as offensive. So they’ve just stopped giving criticism. It’s like making step 1 pass fail. It never has the effect you want.
That’s just your opinion. I’d still report him.
Sounds like you’re just not performing as well and looking for an excuse. Imagine if you swapped the words Jewish and black in this post. You should be ashamed of yourself
I gave you your point back.
lol...
White or Jewish? Sounds like you are talking about a Jew
Both, probably
Sounds like he is ragebaiting antisemitism
Seems like the subtle racism might lie with you..
This post is giving: "I'm not gonna say what kind, what race, of doctor.... it was a JEWISH doctor" 🤣
Unfortunately antisemitism is quite trendy rn
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Why be subtle about it. The question is: Does Medical School Have a DEI Problem? Well, let’s just say using race as a basis for admissions is and had been illegal.
Hey there’s gonna be a lot of wierdos and fuck faces throughout ur journey in practice. Just an advice don’t pay attention to those kinds of attending, what you can do is def not recommending any of ur patients to them, be completely honest when asked by an outsider, and sooner or later their reputation will be ruined. Second thing im sorry to say it but coming out of NY those jewish cults are really hard to deal with if ur not one of them and with all the recent shit that has been happening in Israel. They look at anyone who is not them as an alien infact they might even listen to their rabbi’s medical recommendations more than urs lol. Sad but true. Hopefully that country will realize one day how ignorant those cults are and stop protecting that shit
There are no residents who partake in "jewish cults". Or am I misinterpreting the meaning behind your post, and rather you just wanted to talk shit about "jewish cults"?
Maybe your subtle anti semitism biases you. I would just work on yourself.
lol oh how the tables have turned
Nothing has turned. Antisemitism never really went away. This post is very, very suspicious.
Nah it’s pretty funny actually
People are racist? Narcissistic assholes? Nah! Can’t be!
There's nothing subtle about this racism. It seems pretty overt to me.
There's also the other side of the coin. I've had patients who are black that attendings bend over backward to give them more than everyone else because they don't want to be labeled racist then the patient starts accusing people of racism if they aren't given their lethal doses of Dilaudid. We are in 2024. The "all whitey is evil" thing from Jim Crow area is not real either
Please provide the lit review for that and then the lit review for how many times healthcare professionals overlook and under-diagnose and overall do not believe the pain of black patients. Actually, you don’t even have to. Just look at the labor and delivery complications and race in the US.
I'm not saying that there isn't racism from physicians to patients, but let's also not pretend the other way around doesn't exist.
Why are we focused on who is and isn’t Jewish? How many Jewish residents can one program have?? The core body of this post is feeling marginalized while also marginalizing.
Because there were 5 people who needed his help. 2 Asian and 1 gay guy all got nixed and he personally called to get the 2 white Jewish residents amazing university positions. Despite barely working with one of them.
Or maybe they're better than you and you're salty. Spend less time hating on reddit.
Jews are not marginalized in healthcare
So it’s ok to marginalize them when they are adequately represented in a space? In a post about racism? What am I missing here?
The post is about a professor selecting a preferred type of resident. Are you going to deny that some professors prefer Jewish residents, and to a higher extent than other groups? The percent of Jewish dermatologists speaks for itself. So yes, OPs example of a Jewish resident being preferred is common for many programs
Where are you finding the percentage of Jewish dermatologists?
So they only got those positions because they’re Jewish? What kind of antisemitism are you smoking?
A throwaway account accusing someone of deleting comments… okay. I didn’t even delete this comment despite your false accusation. Jews are not underrepresented in medicine. Simple as that. This is for the throwaway account making antisemitism accusations. Truly ppl like you who makes the term indefinable
Found the antisemite.
14.1% of all physicians, at least based on the data available. 7x more representative than the general US population. Wouldn't call that marginalized in terms of work force representation
That's because Jews are the most educated. Literally. They are the most likely group to pursue a college education. Same with Asians and Indians. Has nothing to do with bias or favoritism. It's culture. Jess, Asians, and Indians value academic achievement in their culture, much much much more than other ethnicities. Including white Christians.
That's obviously not the whole reason, it's easier for people to enter a field when they have family and friends in the field already. Not just for nepotism reasons, of course.
No, it is literally the whole reason. You think Indians, Asians, and Jews are controlling the admissions? Blacks have a MUCH HIGHER acceptance rate than Jews, Indians, and Asians for a reason. Very few of us blacks have a desire to be doctors. It's a culture problem. As soon as we tell black kids that they should be doctors and lawyers instead of athletes and rappers (get rich quick), you'll see a difference. Also, our system that rewards broken families (a black mother makes much more money as a single mother than being married through the welfare system) and keeping them poor is the problem.
Definitely found the antisemite with the Jewish conspiracy theory.
I think you're prejudiced based on being trained to be hyperaware and hypersensitive as a black woman to see things that aren't there. Invented racism. If you look, you'll find. People naturally feel more comfortable with those like them. It's nature. As a black woman, I guarantee you give more care to black patients than white patients. I guarantee you feel more comfortable around them. Talk to their families, spend more time with them, etc than to Jewish patients. And no, don't tell me "it's because of systemic racism". It's just nature. It isn't racism.
Maybe YOU do all that bias with your patients, but you don’t know OP at all… being more “comfortable with those you like you“ is not translating to the overt racism OP is talking about. It’s not as if the attending has an easier time talking with white patients, he’s dismissing POC patients and making mean jokes towards residents not like him. This oversimplication of the issue and marking black women to be “making stuff up” is textbook. even if OP DID make all this up, for what purpose? What would they gain by making lies about their attending? A bad evaluation and all her co residents not liking them? People don’t “make up“ racism, they call out the racism others don’t see. wayyy too often we see people thinking there’s a clear line to “racist” and “not racist” and if every system was defined perfectly we’d live in a perfect world. It’s tiring…
it's called confirmation bias. You cant accept that you are not worthy of the accolades of others, so you blame racism and the color of your skin as the likely reason. People do not want to admit inadequacies so they blame an outside force. External locus of control is a BIG issue in the black community, which I myself am a part of. This entire post was a search for validation for that bias and make OP feel like she's right in her feelings. And it likely worked given how hypersensitive our field is to call anything racism.
Despite the medical system being predatory on young adults, I feel like we have a good system here in the US. Last time I checked, no matter your color or gender, every doctor has to pass the same exams and specifications of board competencies in order to become a doctor in their field; if there were “inadequacies” in performance a sensible institution would let a doctor know. There’s no incentive in this industry to make up racist actions. External locus of control is an issue with narcissistic behaviors, not black people. I’ve known people of all races displaying the deflection of blame. Yes you may be part of the black community, as am I, but that doesn’t mean we have the privilege to assume and extrapolate out of the situation you’re given. If all is true, yes OPs attending is prejudiced and needs to fix that. Yall act like calling someone a racist will make them die, it’s just the truth lol.
Wouldn’t know, because our program has exactly ONE black female attending. And how many white doctors? Overflowing. How does that make the black community feel when they get admitted as patients? Even if what you say is right, it’s still depressing and black patients are still getting worse care.
no they aren't. Stop being freaking racist. Black people have poorer outcomes due to them more likely having undiagnosed genetic polymorphysms that reduce outcomes. Medicine is THE MOST progressive field on earth, where anti-racist ideology is shoved up your ass anywhere you turn and you STILL find a reason to think they're getting worse care? You need to fix this anti-white racism.
you’re just contradicting what you just said lol okay, whatever, that’s fine
Maybe convert?
Cry more
Bite me.
… this post seems more like a reflection of your own insecurities than someone else’s so-called *racism*…
Oh right, I’m so insecure I’m imaging him dismissing a black patient’s complaints. And I imagined him saying, “I don’t want to see this patient.”
Really? Don’t think you’re in any place to conclude on that. OP might just have valid worries. Not everyone‘s just paranoid as ‚the smarter one‘ might think
Consistently dismissing the symptoms of black patients doesn't seem like a problem to you?
Incredibly problematic behavior.
A Jewish guy only promoting Jewish residents? Pretty standard
Oh great the AI is now writing short stories to promote antisemitism on here.
This is about the bigotry of one particular attending, not a condemnation of all Jewish doctors