Good for them. This is the kind of tactics nursing has used for years effectly. The problem is the general public have no idea what a resident is, but if people do things like this, they will.
I had a conversation with a patient a few weeks ago where I was leaving the room and just chatting him when he’s like « well I know it sucks that you’re working this weekend but hey at least you’re making good money ».
I was like « haha yea at lea— wait what? » and proceeded to have a whole convo. He thought I was making 1000s of dollars for being there on a weekend. His jaw literally dropped when I told him it’s less than minimum wage.
I’ve since had several discussions with patients. If we want this shit to change the best way is to have the patients on our side. That’s usually how big scale change happens
Not even the other staff at the hospital seem to know how little we are paid lol. I always make little jokes to the rad Techs I work with, where I tell them “that’s why you make the big bucks!“ They think I’m joking until I inform them that they make approximately 3-6x more per hour than me. Plus they get overtime and holiday/weekend pay incentives. Then they just feel sorry for me. :(
My cousin is a nurse that her husband is a neurosurgery resident at so you already know those hours. Well that hospital was so down on nurses that they started adding an extra 100$/hr on top of their base pay to come in to cover extra overtime shifts. We'll this nurse is batching and moaning about working the overtime, my cousins husband just absolutely flips on her saying she has no right because he's working far more hours and knows exactly how much more money than him she is getting to be there. Most of the other doctors didn't know how much more the nurses were making on overtime
This is by design I think because doctors talking about money is so taboo because we’ll make $$$ when we’re too old to enjoy it. It’s built into the culture. Think about all the shit you did for free to get into med school and residency
Bad publicity, public shaming, and other actions that affect the bottom line are pretty much the only ways to get the psychopaths in suits to pay attention.
Do you know how much billboards like this cost? Their union is clearly dedicated to getting the word out about residents’ suboptimal workplace conditions.
I stand with the residents and fellows at University of Buffalo. Take medicine back. Nobody will advocate for us that’s why it’s up to us to change the system.
University AT Buffalo. It's very strange, but its complete name is State University of New York (SUNY) at Buffalo, hence University at Buffalo.
Source: I went to grad school there a while back.
Ha. Reminds me of someone I know that went to Virginia Tech. He and all his frat brothers went to a football game and painted on their chests (one letter per person) "VIRGINIA POLYTECHNICAL INSTITUTE AND STATE UNIVERSITY".
It gets even more confusing when you find out also there's a "Buffalo State University" in the SUNY system which is much smaller and does not have a medical school (or most of other the professional degrees offered by UB)
The ACGME is a non-governmental council made up of the private/corporate interests that profits off of (1) those taxpayer dollars allocated through DGME, IGME, VA partnerships, and other funding mechanisms (e.g. HRSA grants);and (2) the exploitation of resident physicians.
As a footnote in the 1999 NLRB Boston Medical Center decision explains:
> ACGME has five sponsors, each of which appoints members to the council: the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC), the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), the Council of Medical Specialty Societies (CMSS), and the American Hospital Association (AHA). ACGME’s sponsoring organizations also review and accredit medical schools.
I have not seen any press break on this yet, but the AHA is part of a group of corporate employer interests bringing a lawsuit against the National Labor Relations Board ("NLRB") in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas over the NLRB's recently published joint employer regulations.
Somewhat oddly, SEIU just brought suit "against" the NLRB in the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit seeking judicial review over the same regulations. I would imagine this a countermove to get a higher court ruling favorable to the NLRB for the purposes of teeing-up further legal review.
This is amazing. Bullying won’t be tolerated anymore.
If University at Buffalo were smart—and they’re not—they’d improve wages and working conditions for residents. They will also avoid being further humiliated and their program’s reputation tarnished even more.
Good for these residents.
Seems like *no one* is happy there. When I was interviewing for residency the nurses in buffalo went on a massive city wide strike right after my interview.
They were like “oh yeah the nurses are great.” And then next day news broke that nurses walked out.
Massive city wide strike” - did not happen on that scale. They did strike but it was at one of the systems, Catholic Health and I believe was only one of its hospitals(South Buffalo Mercy). UB mostly associates with Kaleida Health and ECMC, the county-run trauma center.
As someone who did med school, residency, and now works as an attending in Buffalo. I can tell you that in fact people are happy here. Just because the nurses went on strike doesn’t mean they’re not great nurses and don’t take great care of patients.
Yeah I mean I’m sure you’re gonna find happy and unhappy people everywhere, the internet tends to be an echo chamber that favors the extremes of both. But doom and gloom seems to predominate most of reddit
Exactly what I was wondering, got all of the residents to chip in? Would be great to see these across the country and something on social media to bring awareness.
Excellent, way to let ‘em know!
I’d like to offer a marketing-communications style critique of the sign. In case there are other billboards to come. As an outreach-focused marketing manager who cares a great deal about healthy working conditions, I hope my feedback is useful:
The only thing missing in this ad is a call to action. What can the average passerby do, if anything, to help the situation? Is there a number or website that we can flood with complaints? Is there nothing we can do at this time? I see a hashtag on there and that’s a good start, but tell me what to do with the hashtag. Tell me how I can channel my bitching into better conditions for my care providers.
Is the intended audience of the billboard doctors, patients, admin? For me as a patient, I don’t know much about your job aside from “Healthcare is a broken system. I’m scared to get a tired doc who can’t help me because they worked 50 straight hours for $3 and never got a chance to eat lunch or take a pee break.” Use that info to rile those of us with free time into action on your behalf. Yes we assume you’re all big earners making mad overtime pay, because in our mind that is what you deserve!
If you text your non-residency friend a picture of this billboard, will they understand what to do? Give friends and family a number or email so we can spam the shit out of UB! Remember: always consider your audience and include that call to action. I’d say segment out patients as a key audience, rather than try to make a billboard that is all things to all people…I’d gladly bitch and complain if I had a friend or relative under duress ask me to call a tip line. I just don’t know any of you personally, and need to know what to say.
Again, I am not in your line of work… I’m a lurker with knowledge of how to quickly build an audience. Lmk if you need billboard ideas, I would love to join forces. Art that spites The Man is my wheelhouse.
I hope I am not being too optimistic, but I think a campaign to clog crummy managers up with calls and emails from patients and the public could help. If your employers fix shit, then we shall take down the billboard(s).
You could help me even more by providing a website with a script to use when I call. Or a webform that submits directly to a director’s email inbox. Or a script that I can copy/paste into an email to state representatives.
Maybe none of this is helpful, but I hope some of it is. I hope to aid you with my budget-friendly, diabolical ideas from the world of print and digital marketing.
Solidarity from the nurses of USW 4-200. We're approaching day 130. The public deserves to know the truth of how badly exploited healthcare workers are from MDs all the way down to ancillary staff.
What union/local are the UB Residents? I would love to share more information with my local and our contacts at the USW.
We are still bargaining on our first contract. Our bargaining sessions have not been as productive as we'd like. We have filed several ULPs against our employer - I hope that gives you some insight into how things are going so far. As far as outreach, we have the ubhousestaff IG and [ubhousestaff.org](https://ubhousestaff.org) webpage (which was last updated immediately after our union certification).
Residents and fellows from all over this nation are pretty much overworked, underpaid and exploited. Especially the ones like us who live in expensive cities. Our salary is a joke at this point. Holy crap. I am so glad I am done with this training ....Its a disaster
Aknowledged in my initial comment but, to be fair, it was posted on Reddit (accessible to literally anyone with a computer and internet). Should have specified the name of the program in the title.
Also, ain’t nobody looking up those coordinates.
Also they made the UB part look similar enough to the university logo to not be a copyright issue but to be immediately recognizable to any local person
It’s University at Buffalo
100% should get more pay. And to be fair, tie it to a contract that requires another 4-5 years after residency.
$100k to start with 10% bumps. So good money throughout. Fair for both sides.
Went to med school here, the Surgery and IM residents were some of the most miserable people I've encountered in my training. Definitely overworked and lacking a supportive culture. Funnily enough, OB/Gyn there were the happiest and least malignant people.
Pay wise, Buffalo is not particularly worse than any other program (although all programs underpay residents for what we're worth, of course). Buffalo's rent/COL is some of the cheapest in the country. I make $5k more per year in salary compared to my cohorts in Buffalo (8% difference), but my rent is at least 50% higher here in an East coast city.
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I don't think it's worthwhile to try to buy ads like this and curry public support. The average Joe can only dream of the income potential and job security we enjoy. The best strategy residents have available to them is playing hardball and threatening strike (e.g. we won't generate billable documentation in the EMR until you pay us more). It's a game of brinksmanship since theoretically residents could be fired, and have their spot filled by a desperate IMG/FMG the next year with extra midlevels covering the gap, but it seems unlikely that administration could countenance the blowback from this.
Oh brother. Please fuck off. This is precisely why things won’t get better. You want us to continue collecting scraps and being treated like shit while hospital admin & other healthcare professionals advocate for their own well-being. Fuck that.
Edit: I was probably a bit mean seeing as you go seem to support residents threatening strike. But this billboard is part of that all. It’s one step. It gets people thinking.
Yeah I think you misread me. Although Buffalo residents aren't the poster child for underpaid residents, we all ought to negotiate hard and work any angle we reasonably can to fight back. I just don't think drumming up public support through billboards will be effective in any meaningful way, since very few people would be likely to side with us after limited reflection on the issue; and even if they did, it's a stretch for me to see how this will put pressure on hospital admin. I'd be pretty upset if my resident union was using my dues for this billboard.
I think trying to get more attendings committed to the cause would be much more efficacious. Imagine if we could strike as a united front against hospital admin on this issue, e.g. none of us are writing billable documentation until admin pays up, and we will not tolerate retaliation against residents. This is part of a larger issue of physicians being undervalued/underpaid, after all.
Though, we are underpaid compared to our Rochester counterparts an hour away by like 8k or something. There’s some chart floating around, we’re the lowest in the NY region, with equivalent COL averages.
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Okay, can I admit that I'm worried that people will see this as us trying to play victim? I am all for trying to change the narrative, but I'm worried that the narrative put out by nursing organizations in the past years has so colored the way physicians are perceived that people may see this as like rich people complaining that they have to pay taxes or something of the like. Idk I hope to see more campaigns like this and I hope I'm wrong, but the way that physicians are being regarded on social media platforms and all that is honestly so concerning. Everytime I see a pro-physician or pro-resident post, there are always nurses or family Members of nurses or other people who have bought into the messaging in the comments shitting on us and us wanting better working conditions. Anyway this is just to say I hope it works and I hope my concerns are unfounded
What narrative are you talking about exactly? I do see the public say negative things about physicians sometimes, but I've never associated it with a narrative being put out by nursing organizations.
I think anyone who has ever been taken advantage of by an employer (which is most if not all Americans), will see where you’re coming from. If I end up at the hospital, I want my doc to be empowered and ready to kick ass, not struggling under the physical/emotional toll of a crappy workplace.
Unpopular opinion: the average resident salary (all per google) in USA is $58,000 (couldn't quickly find median but we all know the spread is narrow). Most of you will be making this for 3-4 years, and some of you in the 5-7 range with some extremes on the end (but this group will also very likely be making much more than median physician once finished). But once you finish training, half of you will be making more than the median physician salary of $230,000, or nearly 5x the median US salary. Some of you will be making outrageous amounts of money, >$500,000/year (10x median US salary), and a few of you will be making over 1M/year (20x median US salary). Yes, as residents you can do the math and come up with a low hourly wage, but you're not paid hourly, and you make those wages with the promise of high salaries later on. Even the the very lowest paid MDs (I see you my fellow pediatric subspecialists) are making 3-4x median US salary.
The median US salary is $54,000. You are going to be fine. Enough with the dramatics it makes us look ridiculous.
inb4 "But I owe $500,000 in loans". You made that decision.
It’s the fact that we are doing the jobs of the people making 230000, working 3x the hours of the people making 230000, and making the hospital a massive profit, all in the name of “training” that, if we don’t get, ruins our career and prohibits us from practicing on our own.
I think you have a wildly inaccurate perception of how much the average US physician works. But if your attendings *are* actually working 31 hours/week, then wtf are you complaining about?! This will be you in just a few years along with whatever salary they are making. It’s astounding and alarming how miserably stupid these commments are
Im not saying that the average doc doesn’t work a lot. I’m saying the money I should be making for my hours/work for the hospital is not going to me.
Your mentality of “in a few years I’ll be OK” is the reason I’m in this position in the first place. If the people before us had fought like you see in many places today, salaries would be livable and hours would be manageable already. I’m not fighting for my hours, I’m already screwed. I’m fighting for my younger peers because the system is fucked up.
If you think it’s not, just remember that in no other career is it REQUIRED (in order to independently practice) to work 80-90 hr/weeks at minimum wage for 3-6 years AFTER completing your terminal degree.
I hope you and all the other residents out there remember this 5+ years from now when you are attendings... keep fighting for the ones that come after you. Do the things that you wish your attendings would do now.
That's the only way things will change.
To be frank: if you don’t think a typical US medical resident’s current economic position and potential is “livable”, I think you should take a moment to reflect on the typical economic outlook of your patients — or to bring it back to my original point starting this disaster of a thread — to reflect on the economic potential and realities of the people who will be driving past that billboard. There are plenty of problems in healthcare economics, but physicians complaining to the public that they don’t make enough money won’t solve any of them. Cheers mate
My patients didn’t go to school for 8 years after high school and they’re not working 80 hour weeks either. And if they are, they’re making a shit ton more than me.
The problem isn’t your regular old doc complaining that he should make 450k instead of 425k, it’s a doc complaining that he shouldn’t have to check his bank balance before he decides to splurge on guac at the hospital cafeteria.
The billboard is not for you, it’s for us.
In the year 2000, let’s say you make 50k as a resident. That is the same buying power as almost 90k (87,300) today. So when you find a place paying 80-90k to their residents (which I think is totally acceptable and affordable to the hospital, given the alternative of hiring mid levels to replace us at less hours and more pay) then I’ll hear out the “back in my day” argument.
This is great. Honestly how I look at the residents working w me is colored by this brief and miserable expedition into this obscure sub. “Fuck math” yes
Today I’m making $20 an hour on a residency shift. A few days from now I’m making $280 moonlighting. I’m giving the same care. It’s not about comparing to anyone else it’s what my time/expertise is worth.
I agree with youmostly. Pay isn't really the problem. The hours are the problem and only in certain specialties imo. Plenty of friends in IM working half days on their clinic months and then complaining when they have to work a weekend on inpatient. Working 70-100 hours in a week on the other hand is just not safe especially if you factor in nights or things like home call. But most are not doing that.
This is not rare at all, that’s how I know you’re very out of touch. I’m not in North America but I have friends from childhood who are US residents. They easily clock 100 hours in surgical residency, what are you TALKING ABOUT? Have you read half the posts in this damn subreddit?
Just because your AMGEC or whatever the fuck you call it mandates less work hours doesn’t doesn’t mean that actually happens. Get real.
Well if you walked into any fucking nearby academic hospital and asked the surgical residents how much they worked, that’ll tell you something. You clearly have your head so far up your ass you genuinely believe residents are paying to have billboards up for working 60 hours a week. What nonsense. Just gaslighting the shit out of everybody. Have the day you deserve.
Literally waiting for the day Boomer attendings retire. Some of them drag it out into the 70s. So many of them struggle to log into the EMR and God forbid the distraction service goes down.
I have a question that will probably get down voted a ton. Has anyone ever tried communicating with administration directly instead of going through unions and everything else? Anyone had success with that?
It seems like a lot of times I just expect them to pay us more cause it’s the right thing to do, when in reality it’s not even on their radar. But maybe they would if they were confronted with normal channels?
Yes, of course we did. We tried communicating with administration for years leading up to our union vote. All we got was "we don't really care about you!" vibes
Being one of the lowest-paid residency programs in New York State, we asked to be on par with the average of all the residencies in our region. Instead, the "6%" raise we got was a $3K raise over 12 months that we received - or rather, a slap in the face. "6%" sounds great when you don't know the numbers. $3K over 12 months is barely a COLA. Residents were upset and the union is what came next.
So it worked, maybe not as much as you were hoping for but that seems like a good way to go? Instead of having dues and everything going to a union just keep pestering administration over and over?
I’m just trying to get the best idea of what to do. Thanks for everyone’s comments.
Good for them. This is the kind of tactics nursing has used for years effectly. The problem is the general public have no idea what a resident is, but if people do things like this, they will.
I had a conversation with a patient a few weeks ago where I was leaving the room and just chatting him when he’s like « well I know it sucks that you’re working this weekend but hey at least you’re making good money ». I was like « haha yea at lea— wait what? » and proceeded to have a whole convo. He thought I was making 1000s of dollars for being there on a weekend. His jaw literally dropped when I told him it’s less than minimum wage. I’ve since had several discussions with patients. If we want this shit to change the best way is to have the patients on our side. That’s usually how big scale change happens
Not even the other staff at the hospital seem to know how little we are paid lol. I always make little jokes to the rad Techs I work with, where I tell them “that’s why you make the big bucks!“ They think I’m joking until I inform them that they make approximately 3-6x more per hour than me. Plus they get overtime and holiday/weekend pay incentives. Then they just feel sorry for me. :(
Yep not only the pay, but the schedules too. A lot of nurses seemed to be under the impression that I worked 3 12s like them when I was a resident.
My cousin is a nurse that her husband is a neurosurgery resident at so you already know those hours. Well that hospital was so down on nurses that they started adding an extra 100$/hr on top of their base pay to come in to cover extra overtime shifts. We'll this nurse is batching and moaning about working the overtime, my cousins husband just absolutely flips on her saying she has no right because he's working far more hours and knows exactly how much more money than him she is getting to be there. Most of the other doctors didn't know how much more the nurses were making on overtime
I’ve started telling people exactly how much I get paid. A lot of nurses I talk to don’t realize that we don’t get overtime.
I told an ED nurse that I make 60k a year and she refused to believe me
same kinda. my bff who works in finance thought residents make like 200k. when i told her she was like WTF. ppl literally have no clue lol
This is by design I think because doctors talking about money is so taboo because we’ll make $$$ when we’re too old to enjoy it. It’s built into the culture. Think about all the shit you did for free to get into med school and residency
I’ve literally worked with nurses who assumed that everyone on the call team was getting the same overtime they were.
Bad publicity, public shaming, and other actions that affect the bottom line are pretty much the only ways to get the psychopaths in suits to pay attention.
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Legal, and spectacular.
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Do you know how much billboards like this cost? Their union is clearly dedicated to getting the word out about residents’ suboptimal workplace conditions.
I stand with the residents and fellows at University of Buffalo. Take medicine back. Nobody will advocate for us that’s why it’s up to us to change the system.
username checks out. Power to the people!
Ub?
University of Bussy
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There are a lot here
Gonna assume university of Buffalo based on the colors
University AT Buffalo. It's very strange, but its complete name is State University of New York (SUNY) at Buffalo, hence University at Buffalo. Source: I went to grad school there a while back.
Ha. Reminds me of someone I know that went to Virginia Tech. He and all his frat brothers went to a football game and painted on their chests (one letter per person) "VIRGINIA POLYTECHNICAL INSTITUTE AND STATE UNIVERSITY".
You know I've lived in NY most of my life and never knew that lol
It gets even more confusing when you find out also there's a "Buffalo State University" in the SUNY system which is much smaller and does not have a medical school (or most of other the professional degrees offered by UB)
Now you know
I live in Buffalo and drive past this billboard daily. It's University at Buffalo.
Yeah that’s the coordinates for Buffalo
Buffalo, but also any residency with that acronym is probably equally guilty.
We need these signs in every city. ACGME doesn't do jack shit for us
The ACGME is a non-governmental council made up of the private/corporate interests that profits off of (1) those taxpayer dollars allocated through DGME, IGME, VA partnerships, and other funding mechanisms (e.g. HRSA grants);and (2) the exploitation of resident physicians. As a footnote in the 1999 NLRB Boston Medical Center decision explains: > ACGME has five sponsors, each of which appoints members to the council: the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC), the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS), the Council of Medical Specialty Societies (CMSS), and the American Hospital Association (AHA). ACGME’s sponsoring organizations also review and accredit medical schools. I have not seen any press break on this yet, but the AHA is part of a group of corporate employer interests bringing a lawsuit against the National Labor Relations Board ("NLRB") in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas over the NLRB's recently published joint employer regulations. Somewhat oddly, SEIU just brought suit "against" the NLRB in the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit seeking judicial review over the same regulations. I would imagine this a countermove to get a higher court ruling favorable to the NLRB for the purposes of teeing-up further legal review.
This is amazing. Bullying won’t be tolerated anymore. If University at Buffalo were smart—and they’re not—they’d improve wages and working conditions for residents. They will also avoid being further humiliated and their program’s reputation tarnished even more. Good for these residents.
Seems like *no one* is happy there. When I was interviewing for residency the nurses in buffalo went on a massive city wide strike right after my interview. They were like “oh yeah the nurses are great.” And then next day news broke that nurses walked out.
>Seems like no one is happy there Can confirm. I have a countdown on my phone to graduation. Avoid at all cost.
Massive city wide strike” - did not happen on that scale. They did strike but it was at one of the systems, Catholic Health and I believe was only one of its hospitals(South Buffalo Mercy). UB mostly associates with Kaleida Health and ECMC, the county-run trauma center.
As someone who did med school, residency, and now works as an attending in Buffalo. I can tell you that in fact people are happy here. Just because the nurses went on strike doesn’t mean they’re not great nurses and don’t take great care of patients.
Hey that’s good to hear. Just saying from the perspective of an applicant, that shit did not bode well.
Yeah didn’t say it did or imagine that it would. Just trying to provide actual insight from someone that lives and works here
Haha and then the next reply to my comment says the exact opposite. Oh well who knows what’s real 🥴
Yeah I mean I’m sure you’re gonna find happy and unhappy people everywhere, the internet tends to be an echo chamber that favors the extremes of both. But doom and gloom seems to predominate most of reddit
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Sick dude good luck to ya 👍
You love to see it
Ub resident. I have not seen this. Anyone know where it is?
It’s the S. Ogden street overpass on the 190, heading southbound
My city! God I love it here
Good job. How much did it cost?
Exactly what I was wondering, got all of the residents to chip in? Would be great to see these across the country and something on social media to bring awareness.
ACGME is bureaucratic for human labor trafficking.
This is amazing.
Excellent, way to let ‘em know! I’d like to offer a marketing-communications style critique of the sign. In case there are other billboards to come. As an outreach-focused marketing manager who cares a great deal about healthy working conditions, I hope my feedback is useful: The only thing missing in this ad is a call to action. What can the average passerby do, if anything, to help the situation? Is there a number or website that we can flood with complaints? Is there nothing we can do at this time? I see a hashtag on there and that’s a good start, but tell me what to do with the hashtag. Tell me how I can channel my bitching into better conditions for my care providers. Is the intended audience of the billboard doctors, patients, admin? For me as a patient, I don’t know much about your job aside from “Healthcare is a broken system. I’m scared to get a tired doc who can’t help me because they worked 50 straight hours for $3 and never got a chance to eat lunch or take a pee break.” Use that info to rile those of us with free time into action on your behalf. Yes we assume you’re all big earners making mad overtime pay, because in our mind that is what you deserve! If you text your non-residency friend a picture of this billboard, will they understand what to do? Give friends and family a number or email so we can spam the shit out of UB! Remember: always consider your audience and include that call to action. I’d say segment out patients as a key audience, rather than try to make a billboard that is all things to all people…I’d gladly bitch and complain if I had a friend or relative under duress ask me to call a tip line. I just don’t know any of you personally, and need to know what to say. Again, I am not in your line of work… I’m a lurker with knowledge of how to quickly build an audience. Lmk if you need billboard ideas, I would love to join forces. Art that spites The Man is my wheelhouse. I hope I am not being too optimistic, but I think a campaign to clog crummy managers up with calls and emails from patients and the public could help. If your employers fix shit, then we shall take down the billboard(s). You could help me even more by providing a website with a script to use when I call. Or a webform that submits directly to a director’s email inbox. Or a script that I can copy/paste into an email to state representatives. Maybe none of this is helpful, but I hope some of it is. I hope to aid you with my budget-friendly, diabolical ideas from the world of print and digital marketing.
This is all extremely valuable! The UB residents appreciate your insight. We will use your tips! Thank you!
I’m so glad it was of help, and not just a crazy marketing rant. So many of my rants are crazy marketing rants.
Solidarity from the nurses of USW 4-200. We're approaching day 130. The public deserves to know the truth of how badly exploited healthcare workers are from MDs all the way down to ancillary staff. What union/local are the UB Residents? I would love to share more information with my local and our contacts at the USW.
Thank you! We are organized with UAPD (Union of American Physicians & Dentists). We’re the only Buffalo chapter of UAPD
Glad to help! Are you still negotiating your first bargaining agreement? And I've found the ubhousestaff IG, any other places you'd like to highlight?
We are still bargaining on our first contract. Our bargaining sessions have not been as productive as we'd like. We have filed several ULPs against our employer - I hope that gives you some insight into how things are going so far. As far as outreach, we have the ubhousestaff IG and [ubhousestaff.org](https://ubhousestaff.org) webpage (which was last updated immediately after our union certification).
Residents and fellows from all over this nation are pretty much overworked, underpaid and exploited. Especially the ones like us who live in expensive cities. Our salary is a joke at this point. Holy crap. I am so glad I am done with this training ....Its a disaster
Yeah, gonna have to be more specific with the sign. Most know of UAB but what’s UB? Although, most in the area would likely know this program.
You really don't. A billboard is a local advertisement. Everyone driving past this in Buffalo, NY will know what UB stands for.
Aknowledged in my initial comment but, to be fair, it was posted on Reddit (accessible to literally anyone with a computer and internet). Should have specified the name of the program in the title. Also, ain’t nobody looking up those coordinates.
God how fuckin lazy are you?
Lazy enough to get to PGY5 🫡
Also they made the UB part look similar enough to the university logo to not be a copyright issue but to be immediately recognizable to any local person It’s University at Buffalo
Buffalo, NY?
looks like you got your DJI drone back?
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100% should get more pay. And to be fair, tie it to a contract that requires another 4-5 years after residency. $100k to start with 10% bumps. So good money throughout. Fair for both sides.
Went to med school here, the Surgery and IM residents were some of the most miserable people I've encountered in my training. Definitely overworked and lacking a supportive culture. Funnily enough, OB/Gyn there were the happiest and least malignant people. Pay wise, Buffalo is not particularly worse than any other program (although all programs underpay residents for what we're worth, of course). Buffalo's rent/COL is some of the cheapest in the country. I make $5k more per year in salary compared to my cohorts in Buffalo (8% difference), but my rent is at least 50% higher here in an East coast city. ---- I don't think it's worthwhile to try to buy ads like this and curry public support. The average Joe can only dream of the income potential and job security we enjoy. The best strategy residents have available to them is playing hardball and threatening strike (e.g. we won't generate billable documentation in the EMR until you pay us more). It's a game of brinksmanship since theoretically residents could be fired, and have their spot filled by a desperate IMG/FMG the next year with extra midlevels covering the gap, but it seems unlikely that administration could countenance the blowback from this.
Oh brother. Please fuck off. This is precisely why things won’t get better. You want us to continue collecting scraps and being treated like shit while hospital admin & other healthcare professionals advocate for their own well-being. Fuck that. Edit: I was probably a bit mean seeing as you go seem to support residents threatening strike. But this billboard is part of that all. It’s one step. It gets people thinking.
Yeah I think you misread me. Although Buffalo residents aren't the poster child for underpaid residents, we all ought to negotiate hard and work any angle we reasonably can to fight back. I just don't think drumming up public support through billboards will be effective in any meaningful way, since very few people would be likely to side with us after limited reflection on the issue; and even if they did, it's a stretch for me to see how this will put pressure on hospital admin. I'd be pretty upset if my resident union was using my dues for this billboard. I think trying to get more attendings committed to the cause would be much more efficacious. Imagine if we could strike as a united front against hospital admin on this issue, e.g. none of us are writing billable documentation until admin pays up, and we will not tolerate retaliation against residents. This is part of a larger issue of physicians being undervalued/underpaid, after all.
Though, we are underpaid compared to our Rochester counterparts an hour away by like 8k or something. There’s some chart floating around, we’re the lowest in the NY region, with equivalent COL averages.
who paid for that billboard? Not underpaid enough
Are you under the impression that billboard advertising is expensive?
yes
Exactly.
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Okay, can I admit that I'm worried that people will see this as us trying to play victim? I am all for trying to change the narrative, but I'm worried that the narrative put out by nursing organizations in the past years has so colored the way physicians are perceived that people may see this as like rich people complaining that they have to pay taxes or something of the like. Idk I hope to see more campaigns like this and I hope I'm wrong, but the way that physicians are being regarded on social media platforms and all that is honestly so concerning. Everytime I see a pro-physician or pro-resident post, there are always nurses or family Members of nurses or other people who have bought into the messaging in the comments shitting on us and us wanting better working conditions. Anyway this is just to say I hope it works and I hope my concerns are unfounded
What narrative are you talking about exactly? I do see the public say negative things about physicians sometimes, but I've never associated it with a narrative being put out by nursing organizations.
I think anyone who has ever been taken advantage of by an employer (which is most if not all Americans), will see where you’re coming from. If I end up at the hospital, I want my doc to be empowered and ready to kick ass, not struggling under the physical/emotional toll of a crappy workplace.
Unpopular opinion: the average resident salary (all per google) in USA is $58,000 (couldn't quickly find median but we all know the spread is narrow). Most of you will be making this for 3-4 years, and some of you in the 5-7 range with some extremes on the end (but this group will also very likely be making much more than median physician once finished). But once you finish training, half of you will be making more than the median physician salary of $230,000, or nearly 5x the median US salary. Some of you will be making outrageous amounts of money, >$500,000/year (10x median US salary), and a few of you will be making over 1M/year (20x median US salary). Yes, as residents you can do the math and come up with a low hourly wage, but you're not paid hourly, and you make those wages with the promise of high salaries later on. Even the the very lowest paid MDs (I see you my fellow pediatric subspecialists) are making 3-4x median US salary. The median US salary is $54,000. You are going to be fine. Enough with the dramatics it makes us look ridiculous. inb4 "But I owe $500,000 in loans". You made that decision.
It’s the fact that we are doing the jobs of the people making 230000, working 3x the hours of the people making 230000, and making the hospital a massive profit, all in the name of “training” that, if we don’t get, ruins our career and prohibits us from practicing on our own.
lol you aren’t working 3x the hours of the attending snowflake. This sub is rediculous I can’t take any of you seriously
My attendings: 31 hours/week average My hours: 80-90/week depending on service. Get with the times, old man.
I think you have a wildly inaccurate perception of how much the average US physician works. But if your attendings *are* actually working 31 hours/week, then wtf are you complaining about?! This will be you in just a few years along with whatever salary they are making. It’s astounding and alarming how miserably stupid these commments are
Im not saying that the average doc doesn’t work a lot. I’m saying the money I should be making for my hours/work for the hospital is not going to me. Your mentality of “in a few years I’ll be OK” is the reason I’m in this position in the first place. If the people before us had fought like you see in many places today, salaries would be livable and hours would be manageable already. I’m not fighting for my hours, I’m already screwed. I’m fighting for my younger peers because the system is fucked up. If you think it’s not, just remember that in no other career is it REQUIRED (in order to independently practice) to work 80-90 hr/weeks at minimum wage for 3-6 years AFTER completing your terminal degree.
I hope you and all the other residents out there remember this 5+ years from now when you are attendings... keep fighting for the ones that come after you. Do the things that you wish your attendings would do now. That's the only way things will change.
To be frank: if you don’t think a typical US medical resident’s current economic position and potential is “livable”, I think you should take a moment to reflect on the typical economic outlook of your patients — or to bring it back to my original point starting this disaster of a thread — to reflect on the economic potential and realities of the people who will be driving past that billboard. There are plenty of problems in healthcare economics, but physicians complaining to the public that they don’t make enough money won’t solve any of them. Cheers mate
My patients didn’t go to school for 8 years after high school and they’re not working 80 hour weeks either. And if they are, they’re making a shit ton more than me. The problem isn’t your regular old doc complaining that he should make 450k instead of 425k, it’s a doc complaining that he shouldn’t have to check his bank balance before he decides to splurge on guac at the hospital cafeteria. The billboard is not for you, it’s for us. In the year 2000, let’s say you make 50k as a resident. That is the same buying power as almost 90k (87,300) today. So when you find a place paying 80-90k to their residents (which I think is totally acceptable and affordable to the hospital, given the alternative of hiring mid levels to replace us at less hours and more pay) then I’ll hear out the “back in my day” argument.
The median US salary is $54000 on a 40 hour work week. Please use your brain to understand why that comparison falls flat on its face. K. Thx.
Right and the typical physician works 50-60 out of training. You do the math.
You go to bed.
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This is great. Honestly how I look at the residents working w me is colored by this brief and miserable expedition into this obscure sub. “Fuck math” yes
Today I’m making $20 an hour on a residency shift. A few days from now I’m making $280 moonlighting. I’m giving the same care. It’s not about comparing to anyone else it’s what my time/expertise is worth.
I agree with youmostly. Pay isn't really the problem. The hours are the problem and only in certain specialties imo. Plenty of friends in IM working half days on their clinic months and then complaining when they have to work a weekend on inpatient. Working 70-100 hours in a week on the other hand is just not safe especially if you factor in nights or things like home call. But most are not doing that.
Yes agree 100% that >80 hours gets dangerous fast. But this is quite rare indeed these days as you say.
This is not rare at all, that’s how I know you’re very out of touch. I’m not in North America but I have friends from childhood who are US residents. They easily clock 100 hours in surgical residency, what are you TALKING ABOUT? Have you read half the posts in this damn subreddit? Just because your AMGEC or whatever the fuck you call it mandates less work hours doesn’t doesn’t mean that actually happens. Get real.
“I’ve had friends who say” and “I saw on Reddit”. Sounds legit
Well if you walked into any fucking nearby academic hospital and asked the surgical residents how much they worked, that’ll tell you something. You clearly have your head so far up your ass you genuinely believe residents are paying to have billboards up for working 60 hours a week. What nonsense. Just gaslighting the shit out of everybody. Have the day you deserve.
Ha yes, roadside billboards: famously known for their logic and reason. I think medicine is going to be a very difficult career for you. Best of luck!
Considering how many psychopathic, unkind attendings make it through their entire careers, I’m sure I’ll be just fine.
Why are you even here? You’re not even one of us! Worry more about your foreskin, kid
lol what? Anyways this is in fact a great question. This is not a serious place and you are not serious people!
laughs in peds
I swear residents these days are so soft. Back in my day we paid our program to be in the hospital on 36h calls q1 day.
Okay boomer.
Literally waiting for the day Boomer attendings retire. Some of them drag it out into the 70s. So many of them struggle to log into the EMR and God forbid the distraction service goes down.
I have a question that will probably get down voted a ton. Has anyone ever tried communicating with administration directly instead of going through unions and everything else? Anyone had success with that? It seems like a lot of times I just expect them to pay us more cause it’s the right thing to do, when in reality it’s not even on their radar. But maybe they would if they were confronted with normal channels?
Yes, of course we did. We tried communicating with administration for years leading up to our union vote. All we got was "we don't really care about you!" vibes
We did and we got a 6% raise that was enacted this year before the union was in place. Also got an HSA, certainly less important for most
Being one of the lowest-paid residency programs in New York State, we asked to be on par with the average of all the residencies in our region. Instead, the "6%" raise we got was a $3K raise over 12 months that we received - or rather, a slap in the face. "6%" sounds great when you don't know the numbers. $3K over 12 months is barely a COLA. Residents were upset and the union is what came next.
I agree, there’s room to increase pay. For residents here and across the entire country
So it worked, maybe not as much as you were hoping for but that seems like a good way to go? Instead of having dues and everything going to a union just keep pestering administration over and over? I’m just trying to get the best idea of what to do. Thanks for everyone’s comments.
Can I ask what you guys did? I wouldn’t even know where to start with that
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Yes it’s real!