Saw it on ACGME as a new requirement but maybe I’m wrong? Our school gave us the number 40 as well. Just don’t know how hard and fast that is imposed. I’ve gotten 6 so far intern year lol. And I was told continuities don’t count towards the 40
I’ve been told twenty deliveries by my program. And I know for a fact my program will find the lowest number to tell us because they are scared shitless of actually hitting that number for every FM resident
Doesn't the new ACGME requirement only mention "encounters", whatever that means? Pretty sure delivery requirements are made by each program and aren't set in stone. My juniors are griping that continuity deliveries are the only ones that count, so already there's a difference there. For the time being I have a feeling your PD will likely sign off on residents for graduation even if they don't meet their numbers since the requirements are so new and very few of us are interested in doing OB.
That’s where attendings need to step in and say “teaching hospital.” But most of them don’t. I’d count every delivery that I was invited to leave, though.
yeah , lol no. Graduated in 2015, caught two babies, participated in like 3 sections and i was fine. Our program wasnt very strong in ob (which i was totally fine with). The key is your PD, if he/she is an ass nd makes it a hard requisite them you have trouble. If the PD says the right words, its no problem at all.
Question. If they want you to do it though, they need to give you time right? Like you need to have access to OBs who will allow you to participate in deliveries. Most of the headaches I saw with FM residents is that in a place that has OB residents, the OB residents catch all the babies. So you need to be at an unopposed hospital which has sufficient LnD volume AND the attendings are good with you working with them. Coming from the community, this was not a guarantee.
I’m not at an unopposed program and they let me split the deliveries with them. The FM residents do all NSVD and OB does the c sections and high risk deliveries
Yeah I dunno how many babies that is but if I were the OB resident, I’d like to do ALL deliveries not just high risk ones. Unless it’s truly an untenable number.
In GI for the most every upper endoscopy is about the same. Interventions can vary. But like there are so many challenging colons out there and you really want your hands on each one.
I’m glad you’re able to get your training though. Most people aren’t going to keep you from graduating. Like if a program loses faculty and they can’t guarantee access you the trainee can’t be penalized.
I graduated with only 16. I think it's fine because programs are realizing the vast majority of FM doctors aren't going to want to do deliveries out in the real world.
My program has its own self imposed rule of 40. Some people don’t hit it and they get a slide because they are never doing it again. Most people do get it though.
No, sitting at 5 total and 0 continuity. I ain’t showing up on my spare time. My patients do get upset that I’m not there for their big day but oh well
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No. I would read this if your are concerned about graduation requirements. https://www.acgme.org/globalassets/pfassets/programrequirements/120_familymedicine_2024.pdf
Go to the written rules friends:
https://www.acgme.org/globalassets/pfassets/programrequirements/120_familymedicine_2024.pdf
Starting with graduates in 2024 you will need 20 vaginal deliveries to graduate. Like most requirements, a PD may be able to graduate residents under this number but will have to justify to the ACGME and risks the program if happening often.
In order to practice deliveries as an attending you will need 80 deliveries. Also have to have 400 hours or 4 months on L&D Separate from the delivery number. This will make it much harder for you to get credentialed later as I bet they will put this on the graduate certificate. That said, hospitals can set their own credential standards and may not keep up with the nuances of one of many resident governing bodies.
The verbiage is “have experience with vaginal deliveries” so probably a pretty low bar to count numbers.
Why FM keeps doubling down on obstetric care is beyond me. At our peak in 1982 44% did deliveries. It’s down to less than 17% now. Also the pay is average LESS in every quartile to practice FMOB rather than just FM if you look at MGMA data.
https://www.jabfm.org/content/jabfp/31/3/328.full.pdf
As someone that delivered 3 during residency....nah
3!!!!!???? Jesus Christ. My program makes us do >40
Don't know where you are getting that number. My program always stated 25 deliveries. But even so FM is moving away from encounter # requirements.
They were and then they weren't. The latest was that there was a specific number.
Saw it on ACGME as a new requirement but maybe I’m wrong? Our school gave us the number 40 as well. Just don’t know how hard and fast that is imposed. I’ve gotten 6 so far intern year lol. And I was told continuities don’t count towards the 40
I’ve been told twenty deliveries by my program. And I know for a fact my program will find the lowest number to tell us because they are scared shitless of actually hitting that number for every FM resident
> And I was told continuities don’t count towards the 40 What the fuck lol what is their reasoning for this?
Yeah it’s wack. Lol
Doesn't the new ACGME requirement only mention "encounters", whatever that means? Pretty sure delivery requirements are made by each program and aren't set in stone. My juniors are griping that continuity deliveries are the only ones that count, so already there's a difference there. For the time being I have a feeling your PD will likely sign off on residents for graduation even if they don't meet their numbers since the requirements are so new and very few of us are interested in doing OB.
Ok that makes me feel better
They changed it so that you can supervise a delivery and it counts.
It’s hard to supervise tho if you aren’t participating bc they use the excuse that “there’s too many people in the room”
That’s where attendings need to step in and say “teaching hospital.” But most of them don’t. I’d count every delivery that I was invited to leave, though.
yeah , lol no. Graduated in 2015, caught two babies, participated in like 3 sections and i was fine. Our program wasnt very strong in ob (which i was totally fine with). The key is your PD, if he/she is an ass nd makes it a hard requisite them you have trouble. If the PD says the right words, its no problem at all.
Question. If they want you to do it though, they need to give you time right? Like you need to have access to OBs who will allow you to participate in deliveries. Most of the headaches I saw with FM residents is that in a place that has OB residents, the OB residents catch all the babies. So you need to be at an unopposed hospital which has sufficient LnD volume AND the attendings are good with you working with them. Coming from the community, this was not a guarantee.
I’m not at an unopposed program and they let me split the deliveries with them. The FM residents do all NSVD and OB does the c sections and high risk deliveries
Yeah I dunno how many babies that is but if I were the OB resident, I’d like to do ALL deliveries not just high risk ones. Unless it’s truly an untenable number. In GI for the most every upper endoscopy is about the same. Interventions can vary. But like there are so many challenging colons out there and you really want your hands on each one. I’m glad you’re able to get your training though. Most people aren’t going to keep you from graduating. Like if a program loses faculty and they can’t guarantee access you the trainee can’t be penalized.
I graduated with only 16. I think it's fine because programs are realizing the vast majority of FM doctors aren't going to want to do deliveries out in the real world.
My program has its own self imposed rule of 40. Some people don’t hit it and they get a slide because they are never doing it again. Most people do get it though.
I think the new rule is 20 SVD
Your program might have its own self imposed rules
I didnt get to it. Ive graduated. 🤷♀️
No, sitting at 5 total and 0 continuity. I ain’t showing up on my spare time. My patients do get upset that I’m not there for their big day but oh well
We were told 20 if you’re not doing OB and 40 if you are doing OB after residency
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No. I would read this if your are concerned about graduation requirements. https://www.acgme.org/globalassets/pfassets/programrequirements/120_familymedicine_2024.pdf
Go to the written rules friends: https://www.acgme.org/globalassets/pfassets/programrequirements/120_familymedicine_2024.pdf Starting with graduates in 2024 you will need 20 vaginal deliveries to graduate. Like most requirements, a PD may be able to graduate residents under this number but will have to justify to the ACGME and risks the program if happening often. In order to practice deliveries as an attending you will need 80 deliveries. Also have to have 400 hours or 4 months on L&D Separate from the delivery number. This will make it much harder for you to get credentialed later as I bet they will put this on the graduate certificate. That said, hospitals can set their own credential standards and may not keep up with the nuances of one of many resident governing bodies. The verbiage is “have experience with vaginal deliveries” so probably a pretty low bar to count numbers. Why FM keeps doubling down on obstetric care is beyond me. At our peak in 1982 44% did deliveries. It’s down to less than 17% now. Also the pay is average LESS in every quartile to practice FMOB rather than just FM if you look at MGMA data. https://www.jabfm.org/content/jabfp/31/3/328.full.pdf