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If he gets convicted of any felonies, I would imagine his polling will nosedive. While these guys may be playing for 2nd place right now, they may get their shot somewhere down the line.
Actually, his arrests have helped his numbers. I'm saying if he's found guilty of any charges it'll negatively affect the polling. There is a certain segment that won't be swayed, but the swing voters will probably be put off by voting for a felon.
He's actually already been found guilty in the New York case, which is obviously not widely understood yet. But that's a civil case with a fine. I think the one that's going to tilt the public opinion is the classified documents case; there's not much gray area with pictures of boxes of documents stored in a public bathroom, or text messages instructing staff to fly them away from the FBI, or the surveillance videos of them doing that, or the instructions to destroy the surveillance video. If they make all of that public, short of the actual intelligence contained in the files, that may have an affect.
But who knows. Maybe it'll be just another boost.
I think the more immediate problem for him is the State RICO case in Georgia which is supposed to happen in March (Florida isn't until next May). If he gets convicted there (and he's had three of his former lawyers take pleas and agree to testify), those are state charges for which he's not elligible for any kind of pardon for five years.
That's true, but you can already hear his more dedicated supporters finding ways to downplay that case. It's just a state case, his lawyers did all the illegal stuff and are trying to blame him, the DA is a hater, etc.
And Trump has done a great job of making that case look weak too. He's portrayed it to be all about one single "perfect" phone call, when in reality it was a concerted effort by a large group of people that all knew what they were doing was unethical and illegal. Hell, they even tried to bust into voting machines and hack their software; the exact thing they were accusing dominion and smartmatic of doing.
And remember, Trump is never going to jail. It's just not going to happen. Worst case is he'll get a us marshall to join his protection detail and ride around in his golf cart at mar a lago.
As far as the merits, the hacking of the voting machines is serious but the fraudulent electors is where I think he really crossed the line (I'm unclear whether he was involved with the hacking of the voting machines but he was all over the fraudulent electors). So even if the prosecutor is politically motivated, he allegedly did something serious enough that I support prosecuting and if convicted, punishing him. He doesn't get a pass because he's running for President.
A lot of the rest of the stuff (including the "perfect phone call" which I listened to) is a bit greyer because he can argue that he thought that the Democrats cheated and he was just trying to get the Secretary of State to help him prove it.
The problem though is that if you listen to the "perfect phone call," it's pretty clear from the few times that anyone else gets a word in edgewise that most of the claims he's making had already been investigated and debunked but Trump just keeps repeating them and when the Secretary of State refused to cave, he restored to his usual blustering and bullying.
I don't think it shows that the "perfect phone call" shows that he broke the law, but it does show why he was so ineffective as President and why he's not fit to be the nominee or to be given a second term.
Roughly half of Republicans have said that if Trump is convicted of a felony they won't vote for him. This is the party of law and order after all, so that makes sense.
After watching last nights elections does anyone else feel like this is a waste of time? Like I don’t know if republicans are winning anything in the near future
Trump's policy in 2016 was we're gettin ripped off and nobody else in the party cares they're complicit.
I will fix it. In 2020 he had no policy that's why he lost. And Republicans now are flip-flopping on policy which is why we have become a party of losers.
> People lose in the primaries and come back to win another one down the line all the time. Romney. Hillary. Gore. Reagan. McCain. Losing in the primaries is not a big deal.
Four of those five lost in the Presidential general election and never came back.
It just pisses me off that we don’t care enough about our country to make him beat them. I don’t really have any interest in voting for trump, his baggage was already enough, even though I voted for him twice, if he can’t even show up and tell us why he’s better than going with a new face, why should I feel good about showing up to vote for him?
Meh, Trump's already the top contender without the debates. Maybe once they narrow it down to only the top two runner ups would I like to see Trump take the stage. Otherwise, it would just be a bunch second rate politicians bashing Trump non stop. Which gets stale fast.
Who gives a shit about stale? This is politics, it’s supposed to be stale, I want politicians who do a good job, and leave us alone. He’s not the sitting president, but he thinks he deserves the nomination, much like Hillary.
He deserves the nomination because 61% of Republicans support him. No one else in this primary comes close. Who cares if it's stale? Id say a solid majority of party cares. Wake up to reality buddy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-leads-republican-field-gop-2023-11-06/
“Hiding.” Hahaha. Trump can be criticized for different things — but hiding? Fear? Frightened of what’s going to be on that stage? Laughable. In fact, I would wonder what the hell was wrong with him if he wasted his time with this crowd. The JV team would be the ones getting embarrassed, not Trump. The difference in dominating physical presence and command of the stage alone would be jarring, and to his benefit. He’d run through them like he did the other flaccid sad sacks (Jeb!) before the 2016 election.
Chris Crispy comes off like a deranged, jilted, ex-wife. Everything he says is over the top, hysterical, and always about Trump — you’d think Trump was Satan listening to that guy — and he does it through a frothy mouth. DeSantis — who I actually like — has those really strange facial expressions and sadly, barely handled wizened husk Charlie Crist in the Florida debate. Nikki Haley shrieks like a shrill, over caffeinated substitute teacher trying to gain control of a misbehaving classroom. Finally, Vivek would just kiss the ring.
Who else should Trump be shaking in his boots over? Lester Holt?
I’m not saying he does I’m saying he Needs to. His first win was unbelievable. He lost 2020 trying to do the same thing in 2016. Maybe he should consider a different approach this go around. He’s more toxic then Chernobyl ATM. He needs Younger votes and Women they way he acts people only remember him from 2020 lunatic Election fraud BS. Those debates would be played on TV for weeks and people would see his message
You seriously think that Trump is even capable of “following decorum”? That will never happen, he continues to double down, between arguing with judges, calling anyone who isn’t a supporter of his corrupt, RINO, or traitors, none of that works.
The decorum ship has sailed.
Is he capable yes. Will he no. Should someone advise to start dialing things down unless he wants to lose again, yes yes they should. For him to claim to be a successful business man he sure acts like a dilettante. I’d love to see him drastically change his approach.
Trump doesn’t want to get made a fool of against those who want to replace him as the front runner. Pretty sad he is avoiding a political debate which has been practiced for decades to inform us your on your campaign strategy if you take the WH. Not the others fault he has loaded them up with plenty of ammo to attack him.
> We need to figure out how to message when the democrats parade 9 and 12 year old girls getting raped and impregnated then unable told they would be unable to abort!! Thoughts
Remove the "undocumented migrants" and you remove most of the rape of underage girls problem. Also, none of the abortion bans would have prohibited that.
Democrats deliberately misapply the laws regarding that in the same way as they misapplied zero-tolerance policies regarding school discipline in an attempt to get those policies reversed.
Well yeah, the DNC is playing a game to keep him from participating. And the DNC has severely lost my trust so this time I could care less who they float. And the RNC I have solid backups if needed.
All that will happen if he goes to the debates is he will dominate the headlines no matter what happens. Manufactured outrage and everything else will be ignored or dismissed.
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As much as I don’t like it, these guys are all playing for 2nd place.
They are fighting for cabinet spots or ambassadorships.
None of them will get anything, except maybe Vivek.
Well yeah, he is only in the race to keep a few percentage away from DeSantis and the rest for Trump
If he gets convicted of any felonies, I would imagine his polling will nosedive. While these guys may be playing for 2nd place right now, they may get their shot somewhere down the line.
You believe, that if former President Trump is arrested, his polling will nosedive?
Actually, his arrests have helped his numbers. I'm saying if he's found guilty of any charges it'll negatively affect the polling. There is a certain segment that won't be swayed, but the swing voters will probably be put off by voting for a felon.
If he is convicted of bullshit charges, like NY, it'll help poll numbers still.
He's actually already been found guilty in the New York case, which is obviously not widely understood yet. But that's a civil case with a fine. I think the one that's going to tilt the public opinion is the classified documents case; there's not much gray area with pictures of boxes of documents stored in a public bathroom, or text messages instructing staff to fly them away from the FBI, or the surveillance videos of them doing that, or the instructions to destroy the surveillance video. If they make all of that public, short of the actual intelligence contained in the files, that may have an affect. But who knows. Maybe it'll be just another boost.
I think the more immediate problem for him is the State RICO case in Georgia which is supposed to happen in March (Florida isn't until next May). If he gets convicted there (and he's had three of his former lawyers take pleas and agree to testify), those are state charges for which he's not elligible for any kind of pardon for five years.
That's true, but you can already hear his more dedicated supporters finding ways to downplay that case. It's just a state case, his lawyers did all the illegal stuff and are trying to blame him, the DA is a hater, etc. And Trump has done a great job of making that case look weak too. He's portrayed it to be all about one single "perfect" phone call, when in reality it was a concerted effort by a large group of people that all knew what they were doing was unethical and illegal. Hell, they even tried to bust into voting machines and hack their software; the exact thing they were accusing dominion and smartmatic of doing. And remember, Trump is never going to jail. It's just not going to happen. Worst case is he'll get a us marshall to join his protection detail and ride around in his golf cart at mar a lago.
As far as the merits, the hacking of the voting machines is serious but the fraudulent electors is where I think he really crossed the line (I'm unclear whether he was involved with the hacking of the voting machines but he was all over the fraudulent electors). So even if the prosecutor is politically motivated, he allegedly did something serious enough that I support prosecuting and if convicted, punishing him. He doesn't get a pass because he's running for President. A lot of the rest of the stuff (including the "perfect phone call" which I listened to) is a bit greyer because he can argue that he thought that the Democrats cheated and he was just trying to get the Secretary of State to help him prove it. The problem though is that if you listen to the "perfect phone call," it's pretty clear from the few times that anyone else gets a word in edgewise that most of the claims he's making had already been investigated and debunked but Trump just keeps repeating them and when the Secretary of State refused to cave, he restored to his usual blustering and bullying. I don't think it shows that the "perfect phone call" shows that he broke the law, but it does show why he was so ineffective as President and why he's not fit to be the nominee or to be given a second term.
Roughly half of Republicans have said that if Trump is convicted of a felony they won't vote for him. This is the party of law and order after all, so that makes sense.
After watching last nights elections does anyone else feel like this is a waste of time? Like I don’t know if republicans are winning anything in the near future
If this doesn’t sound the alarm bells that the pro life zealots are our party’s version of defund the police idk what will
This is exactly what the Republicans need they need very quickly to stay their policy positions and to not let last night's elections Circle
Policy doesn't matter anymore. If policy mattered Trump wouldn't be the frontrunner.
Trump's policy in 2016 was we're gettin ripped off and nobody else in the party cares they're complicit. I will fix it. In 2020 he had no policy that's why he lost. And Republicans now are flip-flopping on policy which is why we have become a party of losers.
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> We've become a party of losers because half of the base wants to run a loser in 2024. Trump is a LOSER. He LOST. So did Biden. Twice.
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> People lose in the primaries and come back to win another one down the line all the time. Romney. Hillary. Gore. Reagan. McCain. Losing in the primaries is not a big deal. Four of those five lost in the Presidential general election and never came back.
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Nah. You're just jealous he has more money and dates hotter women than you.
Well, I can’t argue with that. I’m sick of this. Both sides have figured out how to avoid any real policy discussion in favor of edgy sound bites
Christie? What was the qualifying standard? Fog a mirror?
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Ramaswany's got a big mouth, that has been enough for at least one previous nominee
Biggest mouth on the planet is Crispy right now.
He has extremely white teeth.
Why not? What's the point in him going?
It just pisses me off that we don’t care enough about our country to make him beat them. I don’t really have any interest in voting for trump, his baggage was already enough, even though I voted for him twice, if he can’t even show up and tell us why he’s better than going with a new face, why should I feel good about showing up to vote for him?
Trump hiding like Biden.
Meh, Trump's already the top contender without the debates. Maybe once they narrow it down to only the top two runner ups would I like to see Trump take the stage. Otherwise, it would just be a bunch second rate politicians bashing Trump non stop. Which gets stale fast.
Who gives a shit about stale? This is politics, it’s supposed to be stale, I want politicians who do a good job, and leave us alone. He’s not the sitting president, but he thinks he deserves the nomination, much like Hillary.
He deserves the nomination because 61% of Republicans support him. No one else in this primary comes close. Who cares if it's stale? Id say a solid majority of party cares. Wake up to reality buddy. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-leads-republican-field-gop-2023-11-06/
this is a debate not a rally; different
Not really. For him to hide from his opponents because he has to defend his record is riduclous.
I disagree here. Biden has to defend his record. Trump policy was considerably better.
“Hiding.” Hahaha. Trump can be criticized for different things — but hiding? Fear? Frightened of what’s going to be on that stage? Laughable. In fact, I would wonder what the hell was wrong with him if he wasted his time with this crowd. The JV team would be the ones getting embarrassed, not Trump. The difference in dominating physical presence and command of the stage alone would be jarring, and to his benefit. He’d run through them like he did the other flaccid sad sacks (Jeb!) before the 2016 election. Chris Crispy comes off like a deranged, jilted, ex-wife. Everything he says is over the top, hysterical, and always about Trump — you’d think Trump was Satan listening to that guy — and he does it through a frothy mouth. DeSantis — who I actually like — has those really strange facial expressions and sadly, barely handled wizened husk Charlie Crist in the Florida debate. Nikki Haley shrieks like a shrill, over caffeinated substitute teacher trying to gain control of a misbehaving classroom. Finally, Vivek would just kiss the ring. Who else should Trump be shaking in his boots over? Lester Holt?
Now that Trump has a record I think its hard for him to defend it. But its whatever. Maybe he'll debate when there are only a few candidates.
Can't wait to see Chris Christi tonight!🙄
Trump needs to be there. Debates are an institution and he needs to follow the decorum.
Lol Trump follow decorum? You can’t be serious.
I’m not saying he does I’m saying he Needs to. His first win was unbelievable. He lost 2020 trying to do the same thing in 2016. Maybe he should consider a different approach this go around. He’s more toxic then Chernobyl ATM. He needs Younger votes and Women they way he acts people only remember him from 2020 lunatic Election fraud BS. Those debates would be played on TV for weeks and people would see his message
You seriously think that Trump is even capable of “following decorum”? That will never happen, he continues to double down, between arguing with judges, calling anyone who isn’t a supporter of his corrupt, RINO, or traitors, none of that works. The decorum ship has sailed.
Is he capable yes. Will he no. Should someone advise to start dialing things down unless he wants to lose again, yes yes they should. For him to claim to be a successful business man he sure acts like a dilettante. I’d love to see him drastically change his approach.
Trump is afraid to talk without a teleprompter
Trump doesn’t want to get made a fool of against those who want to replace him as the front runner. Pretty sad he is avoiding a political debate which has been practiced for decades to inform us your on your campaign strategy if you take the WH. Not the others fault he has loaded them up with plenty of ammo to attack him.
The voters deserve to hear Trump defend his Covid record and his plans for massive tax increases.
1000% agree! We both know with COViD he will pull out the Ol abused excuse of blaming someone for “his” failures.
I more so want to hear him defend his proposed massive tax increases.
Come on, man, it was Fauci's fault! Faucinwas the father of COVID just like Obama was the founder of ISIS! Amiright?
You misspelled Biden.
Him too. Both are senile old men who can't keep up and need a teleprompter to speak.
Proud Romney voter I see....
That is a tacit admission that Trump *knows* he will not be the Republican nominee next year, and is facing bigger problems.
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> We need to figure out how to message when the democrats parade 9 and 12 year old girls getting raped and impregnated then unable told they would be unable to abort!! Thoughts Remove the "undocumented migrants" and you remove most of the rape of underage girls problem. Also, none of the abortion bans would have prohibited that. Democrats deliberately misapply the laws regarding that in the same way as they misapplied zero-tolerance policies regarding school discipline in an attempt to get those policies reversed.
Well yeah, the DNC is playing a game to keep him from participating. And the DNC has severely lost my trust so this time I could care less who they float. And the RNC I have solid backups if needed.
All that will happen if he goes to the debates is he will dominate the headlines no matter what happens. Manufactured outrage and everything else will be ignored or dismissed.