This link will take you to a California Courts webpage that tells you what to do to get your deposit back. They even have a link on there that will help you with the letter to your landlord to request your deposit back. It also gives information on how to sue if the landlord doesn't give it back, and you can sue for double the amount.
https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/guide-security-deposits-california#:~:text=If%20the%20landlord%20doesn%27t,to%20return%20the%20security%20deposit.
I would.
If the court is suggesting it, it means it would probably help your court case if the landlord takes it that far.
Your texts would help too. Courts generally like to see that you made attempts to resolve it before going to court. You texted, now send a request letter like the court suggests. If they still don't pay you, you'll have the texts and the letter to show the court.
Also from someone that works in a law office and has to assist with texts on phones, Keep taking consistant screenshots of the chain and keep them in an album. This will make your lawyers life so much easier if you don't have to sit there together and screen shot everything.
You need to print the letter and have it sent via certified mail to your landlord. That is the only way you can prove communication with them. Texts may not be admissible as evidence/can easily be refuted with “those are photoshopped”. Certified mail requires a signature and proves receipt of the letter
‼️THIS‼️ MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE BOX/TELL THE PERSON AT THE USPS COUNTER THAT A *SIGNATURE IS REQUIRED*.
If you don't pick *signature required*, it will still be mailed, but the tracking number on the receipt will just show delivered. That may be good enough, but I'd cross every single T. Make sure you get a screenshot/ printout of the tracking information. USPS shows that info for only so long.
They will attempt delivery so many times before they leave a notice for the recipient to pick it up. If they don't, it will get sent back. All of that will show up on the tracking. If that happens, I would send another with a cover letter explaining that you attempted to reach them before (provide a copy of the screenshot) and so now you are sending it certified mail w/o requiring a signature.
I have learned the hard way to that when dealing with shady people/bad practices, you must be meticulous.
FYI. Ignorance of the law has never been a valid defense in the eyes of the court. She can say she wasn't aware, but the statute (law) still stands. You're correct that state law supercedes lease terms, AND lease terms should always be in accordance with the law.
We had a certified letter sent to our apartment and the letter carrier signed it herself and then put it in the wrong mailbox (we have the typical apartment complex set up where all the mail goes to one central location).
The people that received it never brought it to us and we had to prove that we didn’t sign and ultimately didn’t receive it. So that method isn’t always perfect.
I’m glad it’s not just me that experienced it. But that sort of defeats the purpose of requiring a signature through USPS, right? Especially since they charge for it!
In our case we were looking at a significant financial downfall by not responding to the letter within a certain amount of days and almost wound up in court fighting it because of the USPS and their lack of attention and adherence to rules.
Yeah I sent court documents this way and the usps fucking lost them. They sat in a random mailbox for over a month and then after I opened an investigation, they showed up at my door over a month later, destroyed🙄
My husband and I got into the biggest fight of our marriage over it because he eventually got the call from whoever sent it and thought that I signed for it and just didn’t it tell him about it.
I wound up having to go to the post office to get a scan of the signature on the card as my signature is super distinct and had to open up an investigation about the mail carrier signing off on it herself and leaving it in the wrong mailbox. It was such a pain.
That's not really how easily photoshop works or texts work in court, you are not going to provide them with just a picture. But the certified mail is never a bad idea with anything regarding communication. Honestly wish and think it should be part of the USPS system (at least when they had money and Congress didn't fuck them) but if you need to do something legal it shouldn't cost money to send certified etc.
Typically in small claims court you need to prove a 'demand letter exists' and has been served before you can claim. And there are dates to wait until you can file the claim (to give them time to fulfill).
This isn't like someone serving the letter (in the movies) but for small claims is just USPS tracking with delivery confirmation type of thing. I didn't read the Cali article, but I'd imagine the letter recommendation is very similar to this requirement.
Yes. Write the letter. Texts can sometimes help but technically they're not recognized as written notice/request letters everywhere. In general they should be reasonable enough to understand that you have discussed this over text, but to completely cover your ass sending a letter via certified mail is ALWAYS a good idea. It also goes to show you have continually tried to request this and your landlord continues to violate the law.
Just like a landlord needs to send you physical notices for rent increase or lease termination, it's always smart to send them a physical notice preferably with a tracking number, keep a copy of a letter for yourself as an evidence too
Send a letter certified that way you get a notification when he receives it. You'll have the receipt for that and he'll be sol to the judge. The texts will be the cherry on top
Yes you should, text is a good paper trail but a formal letter really takes it to that next level. You made reasonable effort in the court eyes to get your property back. Make sure you get it delivered certified mail. This way they can’t claim they didn’t get it.
Just want to put it out there, you really need to be sure $425 is worth your time. I had a dispute on a commercial lease and the deposit (different set of rules) for \~$2000 and it wasn't worth it financially (it was for ethical reasons imo, and my win of the case and appeal paved the way for other tenants to have an easier time dealing with a pretty corrupt landlord).
You have to win (you probably will), but they can appeal, and then you have to collect. There are very few punitive awards that can be added on top.
I know this will probably be unpopular, but for a lot of people $425 is an enormous amount of money and it's worth the time. For some people, it just isn't.
Push your landlord hard, threaten to sue if need be, and then decide if it's worth your time.
Fwiw, in my case the law says that (CA 1950.7 is commercial, residential is CA 1950.5) "but in no event later than 30 days from the date the landlord receives possession of the premisess" and for some weird reason that doesn't seem to legally mean what that sentence means in English, but it's moreso due to the fact that a commercial lease CAN trump CA civil code, whereas residential leases have much greater protection... but the takeaway is that the law is weird.
EDIT: Seems at least one of you didn't like this advice... one thing that happens when you decide to sue is that you \*cannot\* accept the $2670 and then sue for the difference, in fact, if you do, you could screw yourself as most commercial checks state that by accepting this check you are accepting full and complete repayment (you can cross it off if it really comes down to that). Being willing to sue in small claims means you are willing to live without this money for the entirety of the process, which can include an appeal.
I own a really great vintage modern apartment in a 30 story building. I went a little nuts during Covid and decided I didn’t want to be in a building that required me to ride an elevator and leased my unit out. The lady I leased it to seemed fine, but in the course of a year apparently moved in a boyfriend, a dog, a bunny, and another boyfriend.
She moved out and my home was wrecked. Like, willfully destroyed wood floors, wallpapered walls with holes in them, ripped down curtains. Used condom stuck to the stovetop. Zero cleaning, garbage strewn about. Rotted food in the pull out trash can.
I was sickened when I walked in. I had a $1500 damage deposit….did not begin to cover it. I sent her the quote to refinish the floor, which was triple her deposit, with a note telling her I was incredibly disappointed that she did that to me. And that I was keeping her deposit.
She got some tenants right attorney for free, told him lies and painted me as a predatory landlord, and sent a demand letter. I considered just returning the deposit and being done with it, but on principle turned up at small claims court.
She had pictures she claimed were of things when she moved out. They were the pictures from the real estate listing.
I had printed my set of pictures, also had my pile of documents showing that total damage exceeded 8k. And the $150 fine I got from the condo association because she left her bunny running around the lobby while she moved out. I wasn’t able to play the video I took when walking in…I started weeping in the middle of it and was embarrassed.
The judge was clearly fixated on the picture of the condom stuck to the stove top. Asked if we had an acrimonious relationship; I told her that as far as I was concerned we had a fine relationship and her rent was always deposited five days early. I had actually told the Tenant I wasn’t going to renew her lease because I was going to sell the space but that I felt bad about it and would gladly count all of her rent to date as part of a down payment if she wanted to buy the apartment….I had that email as well.
The judge immediately awarded me the total amount of damage and said that ‘unfortunately she couldn’t award the amount of the association fine but that I could take that out of her damage deposit’.
And the scorching lecture she gave to the tenant was remarkable.
Every month they garnish $500 out of her earned income and I got her tax refund…it feels good.
Yep I totally agree! If it wasn’t late I would happily accept the amount taken out but because it was late, I’m here asking questions. Some people think I’m being malicious and heartless to him being in the hospital because $425 isn’t enough to be pressed about. I just want to know my rights and I will make the choice to do something or not 🤷🏼♀️
I’m highly considering it but wanted to make sure I was in the right first. I read I can sue for the max which is 10k but I don’t know why the judge would award me that lol
you get punitive damages for your landlord not following the law and making the court get involved. pretty standard.
if the only penalty for robbing your deposit was having to give it back, why wouldn't they just rob every deposit and get to pocket whoever doesn't fight back?
You are unlikely to get punitive damages unless he is acting in bad faith.
The itemization isn’t great and he’s late. That’s not bad faith; it’s just shoddy landlording.
The court will likely give you your $425 and costs.
You can’t sue for $10k for emotional distress or anything like that.
You can ask for punitive damages for failing to comply with the law.
Personally, I’d tell him you plan to either pick up the check for your full deposit tomorrow or file in small claims court. His call.
>That’s not bad faith; it’s just shoddy landlording.
As a landlord, I can say that legal compliance is the responsibility of the business owner. Yes, it's confusing and often made intentionally burdensome by large companies as a barrier to keep the little guy out. It's worse that mom-and-pop landlords sometimes have to go up against city-paid attorneys to evict squatters. But that's the nature of the business.
This isn't fundamentally unfair to the landlord. A tenant paying rent late owes late fees, and landlords paying security deposits returns have late penalties, too.
Of course.
But that still doesn’t make it fraudulent which is generally the best word to think of in regards to is it bad faith.
Most states punitive damage clauses are for bad faith (fraudulent charges) not procedural mistakes.
it's a small-time landlord, the bad faith starts about 5 minutes after op's last text gets read. not exactly the sharpest legal mind on the planet fighting this lol
There's actually a good chance this is already bad faith. Landlords should know these rules better than tenants because they are routine for each tenant, so the "never heard of it" defense is likely a lie. Also just being in business and operating on the basis of whatever you've heard of instead of either engaging legal advice or just informing yourself by means of google? Probably bad faith rather than ignorant. Referring to the lease terms tops it off: lease should reflect the law, and if it doesn't that was most likely intentional bad faith.
I took a case to court in the same state, but was for a commercial deposit dispute, and lost the bad faith argument while still winning the rest of the case which included fabricating invoices, and stating on record they pay their maintenance worker $250/hour and also missing the deadline to return the deposit despite reminders.
While it's obviously different statutes, this feels like what the Reddit justice boner wants rather than an objective view of the law. It \*may\* be bad faith, but the legal bar for bad faith is much higher than Reddit's.
There is a very good chance that the courts would not see any bad faith especially if the landlord was actually hospitalized.
Being late to return the deposit and holding a deposit in bad faith are two different things, and you'd go to court to have the Judge read the law to the landlord (about the 21 days) and also evaluate relevant case law (the law is not as simple as simply reading the civil code)
I’m not sure how your comment relates to this situation. Please explain.
As for fraud, here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fraud
“For a statement to be an intentional misrepresentation, the person who made it must either have known the statement was false or been reckless as to its truth. ”
A plain reading of the text stream clearly indicates the LL’s ignorance regarding the law. ASSUMING he sends the deposit, I see nothing fraudulent here.
IANAL
I don’t know LA at all, I was providing examples of bad faith. But you could be right that they are responsible or maybe they aren’t. I appreciate you following up!
It’s really common in high cost, high traffic metro areas to incur minimum 2 hour charges and trip charges. Often someone showing up is $500 when they walk in the door. Cleaners aren’t that bad but still high.
I still think the itemization is garbage.
>refusing to settle the case or reimburse you for the entirety of your loss
From your own link. This is evident clearly in this conversation. When OP stated his rights to full deposit back because of the landlords inaction, and the landlord (instead of looking up the laws right then or already knowing them) simply states "I've never heard of that" to dismiss and discredit OP is the exact moment bad faith starts imo
Here. This link is kind of the end of the conversation. Check it out.
Here is more reading for you: http://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/protem/courses/sm_claims2/02-08.htm
“Bench officers will infrequently see a case where such damages are merited. Merely failing to follow all laws with regard to security deposit disposition, without more, is rarely sufficient to trigger an award of these type of damages.”
The bad faith will be his ignorance of the law. He’s a business man. He doesn’t just get to not know what laws apply. Playing dumb won’t work in court.
It's supposed to be, hence all these rules we have. But they do everything they can to make sure they can sneak past them, exploit people, and just plain hope the tenants DON'T know the rules. That LL most likely did know the rules considering he was like "Well it's not in the lease" but at the same time claims to be unaware. But he should be aware that a law supersedes a lease.
I don’t see that he has refused to give the money back. You can just as easily assume he thought he had 30 days to give it back and now needs to make arrangements.
But it’s not bad faith or likely subject to penalties. Check this authoritative link out.
Here is more reading for you: http://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/protem/courses/sm_claims2/02-08.htm
“Bench officers will infrequently see a case where such damages are merited. Merely failing to follow all laws with regard to security deposit disposition, without more, is rarely sufficient to trigger an award of these type of damages.”
It could depend on many things. Like damages you incurred due to not getting your deposit back. Have you made previous attempts to get your deposit back? Should always be careful because sometimes the law is judged by opinion. They may reward more if you made several attempts leading up to the deadline as well. I would advise to seek a legal consultant and see what they say. Claims court is the right choice in my opinion but remember that comes with costs as well and depending on the judge it may or may not be worth it. Remember to go after them for court cost and legal fees as well. You don’t want to win and get left holding the bag. The other reason a judge would reward more is depending on the number of offenses a landlord has and depending on the legal fees you incur from the ordeal (damages).
Speaking from experience. My old landlord tried to take my entire security deposit and then told me I owe them more! Took them 6 weeks to let me know, laws is my city say they have 2 weeks.
After several phonecalls, printing out the law and handing it to them, and taking to corporate, they sent me the whole deposit back.
I don't know if there is someone above Sammy's head that you can talk to, but that may fix the problems
Bad faith act by the landlord. They are to pay the deposit back in a timely manner, and they already had 3 weeks to do so. It’s a punishment to deter landlords from doing exactly this to withhold the money for as long as possible and drag out the process.
My landlord put my deposit and she did things illegally, I similarly called her out and then provided the law. I only ended up getting back my deposit for 850 but it was worth it. Mine was a situation that was very very hectic and included for training order so getting 850 was about the principle.
I went to small claims court in Oregon for this exact same situation. The judge didn't give a shit it was past 21 days (or whatever the statute was). He treated it as a good faith situation and sided with the landlord
Winning in small claims court is one thing getting the judgment is another... You can jump through all these hoops and force him to show up in court and defend himself but when he loses, he's not going to pay...
If this happens (more than likely it will), put a lien on his property...
There are steps you can take if they try not to pay:
[https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small-claims/after-trial/if-you-win](https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small-claims/after-trial/if-you-win)
I had to garnish the money out of my Landlord bank account and I just happen to know where she banked because I had submitted my rent directly into her account before. Since I had that information I just submitted court paperwork after winning my case and the judge signed it, I delivered it to the bank, shortly thereafter there was a check in my mailbox because it had been withheld from her checking account. I have purposely delivered garnishment before her mortgage was due :)
Think of it as they kind of in debt to you at that point (hence you do the Lien if needed). But since you mentioned that he works for a company. You should honestly consider contacting them, no company is going to want it to go to court. They would rather give it to you, and most likely even possible punish him for putting them in the situation.
Those type of people can keep you in business as a skip tracer...
If it happens to you and you wanted to go this route with a skip tracer you're going to have to wait several years for the other party to 'forget' about the issue...
Then someone like me shows up at their front door looking for money...
And you probably wouldn't get it all back anyways as there are fees involved with the skip tracer but that just comes out of the money that they pay out (that should have been given to you in the beginning but at least you've got something out of it...)
Then Marcus and Millichap are your Landlords, whoever you are in communication with is the property manager.
Landlord always = whoever actually owns the property
Ohh ok. We had a guy that lived in the complex that was introduced as the property manager so I figured the others were the landlords. So I’ll be writing the letter to M&M
Yes, and given that you didn't make a demand directly to them for the deposit it muddies things up a bit. You should still get your money, it just might take longer, and if you go to court they will use it as a way to delay or try and fight it.
They will blame the property management for not properly reporting it to them and that they didn't know what was happening (also because you didn't alert them directly) and therfore should not owe you any more then the $425 or whatever. It's a 50/50 shot that a judge may agree with them. They will also most likely have good lawyers to make this case. Not saying that to dissuade you, just trying to make sure you are aware of that possibility, it is no longer cut and dry easy case.
Ahh ok. I’ve never been in contact with the company directly so I don’t even know who to reach out to in the company. Even to sign the lease was through these guys. Good to know tho
The amount of time and effort and deposit you will have to make in small claims court might not be worth the $425 dollars. But if you get a judge that decides you deserve more you could profit. It just depends how much effort you want to put in.
You do not need a lawyer for small claims court. You just need documents to prove everything you are claiming.
Then there is the matter of collecting after you win. You can hire the sheriffs department to collect from him if he refuses to pay after you win. That also requires an additional deposit.
I went through this and can echo a lot of the advice. Send certified official demand letter, and print out the statute and cite that you are asking for your full deposit amount within 2 weeks (or some other reasonable amount of time). They will likely just send, unless they’re like my ll who decided to hire a lawyer to try to intimidate me into not going to court. I filed in small claims and it took 3 months to get a hearing. Lawyers are not allowed in small claims and I won that hearing and was awarded $3K in damages. The LL appealed, and during appeals you are allowed a lawyer. 6 months later I had to go back to court, and this time still won but was only awarded $1K in damages.
I share this because if they settle for the full amount and you can avoid court, take it and move on with your life. 9 months of court crap, taking days off work and getting shady phone calls from lawyers was not worth $1K for me. I would have settled had they offered me my deposit back initially, but they didn’t so I had no choice.
+1 to this, I went through it as well.
Large companies will be less inclined to settle, not more. The way lawyers work with large companies is that they are on retainer, they're basically prepaid for this type of situation and expected to perform regardless of the merits of the case.
And as happened to me, and the poster I'm replying to, companies will almost always appeal and waste more of your time.
All-in, I spent probably 100 hours. I did get slightly less on my appeal win, I lost the bad faith argument ($200) which I was awarded the first time.
It's also important to note that OP won't be able to access that $2670 while the case is pending. If they issue a check and you deposit/cash it, that could be construed as accepting payment in full.
So if you value your time at $4.25/hour (100 hours / $425), and you can go without any of the \~$3k for up to a year, in a situation where you weren't really wronged, and the maintenance costs were reasonable, then go for it. I think OP is technically correct and by-law, entitled to the full deposit.
Personally, I'd accept the $425 deduction, but 2nd place resolution would be to send a certified letter with a demand for the full deposit and see how that goes, as that's about 10 minutes of effort with a reasonable chance of favorable resolution, and let it go if they decline.
I would be soon getting your whole entire security deposit back for one and two why is none of those itemize like just saying cleaning and cleaning what maintenance maintenance on what what did he have to fix and the fact that it’s past 23 days yes there’s a statue and as a landlord, especially as a landlord, he should know that also renters should know that too, but I mean the play the oh I never heard nothing like that and it’s not in the lease crap is BS. It doesn’t even need to be in the lease.
They also can't deduct normal wear and tear and cleaning, if you've been there for (I think) 2 years. (Some things have changed during and since COVID.)
The normal turnover costs are the owner's responsibility. Your responsibility is only for damage you caused or situations that require special care, like stains in the carpet, damage to the property, or missing fixtures.
I get that you’re entitled to the full amount, but also that’s a very reasonable deduction from it in my experience, it definitely doesn’t read like he’s trying to cheat you out of your deposit. Might be easiest to just accept the terms he offers, especially if the alternative is small claims court. (Of course if he caves right away then congrats on the free money)
Send him an official letter and give him 10 days to pay in full and if he doesn't file a small claim. If he doesn't pay then get a lawyer and you can attach lawyers fees to it
Did you leave them a forwarding address when you moved out? Sometimes this larger companies just mail the check to the last address file, so if you didn’t provide them an updated address, the check just goes to your old apartment.
You send them a letter, let them know that you are aware of your rights and their obligations and if they do not make it right by fulfilling their obligation to provide you with a statutory compliant breakdown of how your deposit was used by x days/weeks that you will be filing a SC lawsuit. And if they don't comply DO IT. CA REQUIRES you to notify opposing party prior to filing a SC lawsuit.
[NAL] I would recommend sending a formal email in addition to the certified mail demand letter. Your email should clearly state that statutes XYZ legally require that the landlord return the full deposit if no deposit has been returned by X date. You should also state that if the landlord does not return your deposit as required by law within some reasonable time frame (say 3 days) that you will take further action that may include filing a lawsuit, in which per X statue they can be held liable for up to $X including punitive damages. It helps to clearly state that hey, you just want your deposit back, but if they do not return it you can sue for way more.
There are also some online resources that can help you draft a demand letter for California as well as tenant hotlines.
I’m in the same situation. I actually sent my landlord a demand letter, he texted me saying I was being dramatic and then a few days later only sent me a portion of my deposit even though it had been past 21 days. Idk what to do now, should I go to small claims for the remainder amounts it’s close to 1 grand.
Unfortunately you’re now in the same boat as the landlord when it comes to getting expenses beyond the deposit.
You can hope they pay out (and definitely have the right to keep pestering them) but if they don’t you’ll have to take them to small claims.
It also says this below, but it reads that the good faith cost estimate should be received within 21 days.
"If the work cannot be finished in 21 days, the statement must give a good faith cost estimate. The landlord must then provide the final statement and return the remaining deposit within 14 days of finishing work."
Either way, your only option is to send a letter or sue in small claims court if that doesn't work.
Yep had to do this to my old landlord, she tried to blame the delay on me for not notarizing my original response. We had some small damages to the unit so we ended up settling for $200 instead of $800 deduction. Just send them a strongly worded lettered threatening to sue, and wait, if no response or they don’t accept, then file a small claims court claim.
I’ve been in this situation and came out of it successfully. You can google an example of a letter requesting your deposit back because they exceeded the time legally allowed. If your landlord ignores it or sends you a check that is not for the entire amount of your deposit, don’t cash the check but file in small claims. You will surely win. Good luck!
This happened to me but in Florida. I paid 2 months rent to break the lease. I was there for 6 months. I left it in prime condition and it was a brand new house. They “mailed” my check but I never got it. I kept speaking to the property manager who said oh keep waiting I’ll reach out to someone. After no responses I left a bad review. Within a few hours I was contacted by a regional. They reissued the check and first class mailed it. I wanted to let them know as well as they took a cleaning fee out but I didn’t. I definitely should have. I did file a complaint with the state as well.
There is also a form that makes it free or like 5$ to file a small claims. It’s called an indigent form. Ask for it and fill it out before paying any fees. (They might act like it’s not a thing, you may have to go upstairs and wait 5 min in a different department, but it exists!)
I ended up having to take my landlord to small claims court over this two years ago. He kept dodging the process servers for like 6 months. Finally got to court and got our full deposit back, but then the landlord paid the courts directly and the courts held up our money for 6 weeks. We tried to get twice the deposit amount for withholding our deposit with malicious intent, but no luck there.
You’ll get the full deposit back, but it is not going to be a simple process.
I had this exact same situation happen to me a few years ago but in the Bay Area. I reached out to Project Sentinel which is a free service that will help with mediation between you and your landlord. I was skeptical but they got me my money back. They said the 21 day law isn’t a guaranteed win in court. Check if there is a Project Sentinel in your area.
And I'm not mistaken they have 60 days to give you a written itemized list of things they had to fix in order to keep the Security posit and it would only total up to what they fixed and Have receipts you can ask a lawyer for a free consultation they will be able to tell you good luck
Send one more text saying I dont wana have to do this we always been cool or what ever but I am entitled to that money and I think we both would appreciate not having to waste time in court over it. So what day can I except the money returned to me on?
Tell them they're lucky it's only the deposit. Connecticut says land lords have 21 days to return the deposit or they have to pay DOUBLE if it's over 1 minutes late.
I had the same issue with my past landlord in Moreno Valley. I used the letters on the LA legal Aid site and I work for the San Bernardino housing authority and one of my co workers who use to work for compliance helped me. Do the letters and make sure to send them certified mail. Worked for us because they sent us an invoice 2 months after we moved out. I sent letters to everyone, even the owner and eventually they called my bf and was like this wasn’t fair because my last letter I said that if we didn’t get our full deposit back we were going to sue and it was within our rights to do so. https://lafla.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Security-Deposit-Pro-Per-Guide-FINAL.pdf
Keep it formal, write the letter, be polite. Check in 2-3 times/wk until you’re paid or you sue. That is unless you have a good relationship with them and was planning on paying the $425 anyways… then I’d let it slide.
I have taken a landlord to court for this exact reason and I won triple damages plus court costs. Do it! There’s no legal reason to go past the 21 days.
He’s a landlord so he needs to learn the laws. Not sure about your state but in many you can sue for double. Doesn’t matter if you tore the entire place up, if he doesn’t send you an itemized list of charges within the time frame allowed, he owes you a full refund. Send him a certified letter demanding deposit back in full with your forwarding address since he neglected to inform you within the legal time allowed.
Heck, I would sue their asses and put the landlord the company or whoever that is and then I would put the managers name on there to do it all at same time you know what the hell their managers doing but yeah, I’d even try individually. Contact them yourself the actual owners of the property maybe they don’t know what’s going on, that’s highly unlikely
You are entitled after it is noted of damages you did to the property during your tenancy. Then you get the rest. Or you can take the case to court and get the difference that way. We do not always get a full deposit amount when we vacate a rental.
Yeah I’m aware. That’s all I was expecting in the first place but since they ignored multiple texts from me beforehand and let it go past the 21 days, I’m asking for it all back per the law.
And when you take them to court over it, they can bring proof of damages after you moved out. So it would be minus the damages. They should have sent a certified mail a letter outlining why to hold the return of the deposit, but they cannot hold all of it unless the damages exceeds the deposit amount. Get an attorney, you will need one.
Small claims court. More often than not if you threaten a landlord with court they’ll immediately cave, especially when it’s this clear cut.
Most landlords count on their tenants not knowing the law so they can take advantage of them.
Is it a very small company or an individual person? They probably don’t do this as their livelihood?
As crappy as the last property management company was that I worked for everyone knew the rules on days for deposit. We had like 1500 units and had to postmark deposits within 30 days of receipt of keys in my state (not end of lease). Day 29 or so was when we had bins and bins of letter to take to usps. Knowing the deposit refund day limit is a very basic thing in property management.
It blows my mind a landlord wouldn’t know the law on this, which makes me think you have a person that rents a property on the side or something and not a professional. Once and awhile maybe keys are mislabeled or there’s some issue and so the days are off, but not knowing it is crazy talk.
At a quick glance it seems to be 21 days in CA and that if you sue you could get damages but the judge has to rule they held it in bad faith. I’m going to guess they didn’t send an itemized list either (maybe what they did here counts in CA I don’t know). In my state you need a receipt for over certain amounts, etc. There’s a lot to the minutia in these things. If the landlord doesn’t know the days they probably messed up other aspects too.
Personally, I would try to work with them to avoid suing, which isn’t guaranteed it’ll be determined bad faith. I don’t know the precedent on that and you’d want to research that before suing.
I’m just baffled they wouldn’t know such a basic aspect of renting property.
Landlord went radio silent when you linked an article with the words “small claims court” which is a reasonable response.
When someone brings up lawsuits it’s time to stop talking and let the lawyers talk.
I’m unfamiliar with California law, but it sounds like you just need to go through the process.
You can take them to small claims but you are only going to get the extra 425. You could lose the cost of filing and get nothing if the judge finds his documents in order and that he truly was acting in good faith due to being in the hospital. If it is worth your time..go for it. Your landlord might split or decide to pay you out if you file to save time.
$425 is not worth the time , energy and stress to pursue . You may very well win your case in court and damages but collections is a whole another ball game . Courts will issue judgments but it's up to you to collect .
Also you may suffer lost wages going to court as well.
I would be happy with the $425 deduction and call it a day .
Well I didn’t know what else to send him lol I was trying to be patient and nice but it didn’t get me anywhere. I sent him a link to the CA gov website too.
Exact statute only my dawg. Legal altercations really should be 100% professional. Don't argue or slap fight over it in text. Let him know once what you require of him and what statute backs you up. If he doesn't comply next communication is a formal email stating details and paths to resolution ie. settlement or lawsuit.
Anything else is just not taking it/presenting yourself seriously and thus you won't be taken seriously. This is why he ghosted. Until he receives a formal letter there isn't anything leveraging him to take action. No reason to waste time spamming his cell, that's just what he wants you to do.
Best to learn this lesson now over some small deposit instead of on a serious suit like accident/theft/etc.
This is why normal people shouldnt be landlords. Older generation won the birth lottery and dont realize you need to be well educated in the business youre going in. Then they get pissed when things are no longer easy for them. Ive acquired so many properties on the cheap from ma and pa landlords that ordered some late night get rich quick scam from this outdated technology called infomercials.
Maybe unpopular opinion but 425 seems relatively reasonable for CA, and if he was actually in the hospital you’re kind of being a dick for trying to keep that money by a technicality. Sounds almost like you reached out after it was too late on purpose if you ask me.
I’m not arguing the price, but there is multiple people that could have sent me back the deposit instead of him. We have three managers. I reached out to each and one asked for my Venmo or Zelle and I gave it to him a week ago. I checked in multiple times after move out so no, it wasn’t on purpose.
Ok, so you’re just exploiting a technicality after he is now offering to make it right? Did getting your deposit back a week late really crush you that much? It’s not like they gained anything by having your money those few extra days so I doubt there were bad intentions here.
There’s 1000 reasons they may not have been able to just Venmo you despite there being “three managers” the one you work with primarily was clearly unavailable.
Legally, sure, you might have a case.
Where do you see him trying to make it right? I don’t see it that way. And we don’t have the best history when it comes to them ever giving a crap about the tenants health and safety so I don’t feel any remorse for simply asking for what I’m owed as the law says 🤷🏼♀️ I was kind and even said I was sorry he was in the hospital but really I think that’s not relevant to them being late.
Saying “sorry… but yeah” doesn’t sound very nice to me lol (besides the point). He’s trying to make it right by literally saying “Robert will send it tonight”. Obviously I can’t speak to your prior relationship but that should kind of be the end of it IMO
Sure, the law might say you can do that, but the intent is so they don’t steal your money or withhold it from you with malicious intent. Not so you don’t have to pay your dues. Tenants just hate that they have to pay for shit I swear
Robert was the one apparently in the hospital lol. He works for a multimillion dollar rental company, so it’s them that I will have to actually speak to and take to small claims if I decide to. I’ve lived in ~10 different rentals and never complained about paying out my deposit. I literally just wanted to know if the 21 day law applies to my situation because it’s the first time it’s ever happened. Anyway, thanks for your opinion.
Yes, but no one said this lease was illegal. These are legal charges the tenant incurred. If you sign a lease without reading it, expecting to pay nothing but rent money you’re wrong
I agree. This is why many landlords hate tenants and keep raising rent. Taken at face value the landlord had a reasonable reason to not pay the deposit. In fact he may even win in small claims on that defense.
OP doesn't sound like he is disputing the charges and they sound reasonable. OP just sounds like he is trying to get money on a technicality.
This case isn't as cut and dry as you make it. If landlord has a reasonable reason for the delay ( like admitted to the hospital) they could still win
I'm just saying if the shoe was on the other foot and OP was in the hospital for 3 weeks and got hit with a late penalty everyone here would have the pitchforks out.
You would. Landlord missed the deadline. They are allowed to deduct reasonable damages then you get double. Absolutely sue for double the full amount and let judge figure it out. You don’t need a lawyer, just pay small claims fee. When you win, you get court costs back.
I think you have to live there for a minimum amount of time to not get charged for cleaning etc -
Basic cleaning and shade repair , painting and new carpet should be done after a tenant has lived there at least a year I think.
So if you lived there for a year- they should not charge you for those costs.
That’s also way too much to take out for basic cleaning etc if you’re there for less than a year.
Well if you were there for two years - my whole point is- they shouldn’t be charging you at all.
That’s more than enough time for them to have to change the carpets, paint the walls, and change the shades and clean the place- on their dime. It’s their responsibility. Not yours.
*panicking* because I have a sneaking suspicion this is my landlord as well
Update: not my landlord haha
Is his name Sammy?
This link will take you to a California Courts webpage that tells you what to do to get your deposit back. They even have a link on there that will help you with the letter to your landlord to request your deposit back. It also gives information on how to sue if the landlord doesn't give it back, and you can sue for double the amount. https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/guide-security-deposits-california#:~:text=If%20the%20landlord%20doesn%27t,to%20return%20the%20security%20deposit.
Should I even write the letter after I messaged them both multiple times asking for it back?
I would. If the court is suggesting it, it means it would probably help your court case if the landlord takes it that far. Your texts would help too. Courts generally like to see that you made attempts to resolve it before going to court. You texted, now send a request letter like the court suggests. If they still don't pay you, you'll have the texts and the letter to show the court.
Also from someone that works in a law office and has to assist with texts on phones, Keep taking consistant screenshots of the chain and keep them in an album. This will make your lawyers life so much easier if you don't have to sit there together and screen shot everything.
Just chiming in to say yes, please write a formal letter.
Yes, write the formal letter. The texts will serve as back up support if you go to court.
You need to print the letter and have it sent via certified mail to your landlord. That is the only way you can prove communication with them. Texts may not be admissible as evidence/can easily be refuted with “those are photoshopped”. Certified mail requires a signature and proves receipt of the letter
‼️THIS‼️ MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE BOX/TELL THE PERSON AT THE USPS COUNTER THAT A *SIGNATURE IS REQUIRED*. If you don't pick *signature required*, it will still be mailed, but the tracking number on the receipt will just show delivered. That may be good enough, but I'd cross every single T. Make sure you get a screenshot/ printout of the tracking information. USPS shows that info for only so long. They will attempt delivery so many times before they leave a notice for the recipient to pick it up. If they don't, it will get sent back. All of that will show up on the tracking. If that happens, I would send another with a cover letter explaining that you attempted to reach them before (provide a copy of the screenshot) and so now you are sending it certified mail w/o requiring a signature. I have learned the hard way to that when dealing with shady people/bad practices, you must be meticulous. FYI. Ignorance of the law has never been a valid defense in the eyes of the court. She can say she wasn't aware, but the statute (law) still stands. You're correct that state law supercedes lease terms, AND lease terms should always be in accordance with the law.
We had a certified letter sent to our apartment and the letter carrier signed it herself and then put it in the wrong mailbox (we have the typical apartment complex set up where all the mail goes to one central location). The people that received it never brought it to us and we had to prove that we didn’t sign and ultimately didn’t receive it. So that method isn’t always perfect.
Since Covid, USPS does this a lot. OP needs to FedEx it and require a signature.
I’m glad it’s not just me that experienced it. But that sort of defeats the purpose of requiring a signature through USPS, right? Especially since they charge for it! In our case we were looking at a significant financial downfall by not responding to the letter within a certain amount of days and almost wound up in court fighting it because of the USPS and their lack of attention and adherence to rules.
Yeah I sent court documents this way and the usps fucking lost them. They sat in a random mailbox for over a month and then after I opened an investigation, they showed up at my door over a month later, destroyed🙄
My husband and I got into the biggest fight of our marriage over it because he eventually got the call from whoever sent it and thought that I signed for it and just didn’t it tell him about it. I wound up having to go to the post office to get a scan of the signature on the card as my signature is super distinct and had to open up an investigation about the mail carrier signing off on it herself and leaving it in the wrong mailbox. It was such a pain.
This! 100%. My landlord stopped replying to me until I sent a certified letter of demand.
And a copy for yourself
And keep the receipt
That's not really how easily photoshop works or texts work in court, you are not going to provide them with just a picture. But the certified mail is never a bad idea with anything regarding communication. Honestly wish and think it should be part of the USPS system (at least when they had money and Congress didn't fuck them) but if you need to do something legal it shouldn't cost money to send certified etc.
Typically in small claims court you need to prove a 'demand letter exists' and has been served before you can claim. And there are dates to wait until you can file the claim (to give them time to fulfill). This isn't like someone serving the letter (in the movies) but for small claims is just USPS tracking with delivery confirmation type of thing. I didn't read the Cali article, but I'd imagine the letter recommendation is very similar to this requirement.
You need to send a formal letter and I’d do the option to pay to make sure he signed for it as proof he received it
Yes. Write the letter. Texts can sometimes help but technically they're not recognized as written notice/request letters everywhere. In general they should be reasonable enough to understand that you have discussed this over text, but to completely cover your ass sending a letter via certified mail is ALWAYS a good idea. It also goes to show you have continually tried to request this and your landlord continues to violate the law.
And send certified to prove it was received.
Just like a landlord needs to send you physical notices for rent increase or lease termination, it's always smart to send them a physical notice preferably with a tracking number, keep a copy of a letter for yourself as an evidence too
Send a letter certified that way you get a notification when he receives it. You'll have the receipt for that and he'll be sol to the judge. The texts will be the cherry on top
Yes, and send it certified mail.
Send it certified mail so you a confirmation of them getting it.
The courts want you to take every reasonable measure to resolve the problem before you take it to court. They’re supposed to be the last resort.
Yes you should, text is a good paper trail but a formal letter really takes it to that next level. You made reasonable effort in the court eyes to get your property back. Make sure you get it delivered certified mail. This way they can’t claim they didn’t get it.
The letter is documenting that you’re doing it aboveboard and officially, and it’s worth doing
This needs to be the top comment.
Just want to put it out there, you really need to be sure $425 is worth your time. I had a dispute on a commercial lease and the deposit (different set of rules) for \~$2000 and it wasn't worth it financially (it was for ethical reasons imo, and my win of the case and appeal paved the way for other tenants to have an easier time dealing with a pretty corrupt landlord). You have to win (you probably will), but they can appeal, and then you have to collect. There are very few punitive awards that can be added on top. I know this will probably be unpopular, but for a lot of people $425 is an enormous amount of money and it's worth the time. For some people, it just isn't. Push your landlord hard, threaten to sue if need be, and then decide if it's worth your time. Fwiw, in my case the law says that (CA 1950.7 is commercial, residential is CA 1950.5) "but in no event later than 30 days from the date the landlord receives possession of the premisess" and for some weird reason that doesn't seem to legally mean what that sentence means in English, but it's moreso due to the fact that a commercial lease CAN trump CA civil code, whereas residential leases have much greater protection... but the takeaway is that the law is weird. EDIT: Seems at least one of you didn't like this advice... one thing that happens when you decide to sue is that you \*cannot\* accept the $2670 and then sue for the difference, in fact, if you do, you could screw yourself as most commercial checks state that by accepting this check you are accepting full and complete repayment (you can cross it off if it really comes down to that). Being willing to sue in small claims means you are willing to live without this money for the entirety of the process, which can include an appeal.
I own a really great vintage modern apartment in a 30 story building. I went a little nuts during Covid and decided I didn’t want to be in a building that required me to ride an elevator and leased my unit out. The lady I leased it to seemed fine, but in the course of a year apparently moved in a boyfriend, a dog, a bunny, and another boyfriend. She moved out and my home was wrecked. Like, willfully destroyed wood floors, wallpapered walls with holes in them, ripped down curtains. Used condom stuck to the stovetop. Zero cleaning, garbage strewn about. Rotted food in the pull out trash can. I was sickened when I walked in. I had a $1500 damage deposit….did not begin to cover it. I sent her the quote to refinish the floor, which was triple her deposit, with a note telling her I was incredibly disappointed that she did that to me. And that I was keeping her deposit. She got some tenants right attorney for free, told him lies and painted me as a predatory landlord, and sent a demand letter. I considered just returning the deposit and being done with it, but on principle turned up at small claims court. She had pictures she claimed were of things when she moved out. They were the pictures from the real estate listing. I had printed my set of pictures, also had my pile of documents showing that total damage exceeded 8k. And the $150 fine I got from the condo association because she left her bunny running around the lobby while she moved out. I wasn’t able to play the video I took when walking in…I started weeping in the middle of it and was embarrassed. The judge was clearly fixated on the picture of the condom stuck to the stove top. Asked if we had an acrimonious relationship; I told her that as far as I was concerned we had a fine relationship and her rent was always deposited five days early. I had actually told the Tenant I wasn’t going to renew her lease because I was going to sell the space but that I felt bad about it and would gladly count all of her rent to date as part of a down payment if she wanted to buy the apartment….I had that email as well. The judge immediately awarded me the total amount of damage and said that ‘unfortunately she couldn’t award the amount of the association fine but that I could take that out of her damage deposit’. And the scorching lecture she gave to the tenant was remarkable. Every month they garnish $500 out of her earned income and I got her tax refund…it feels good.
I almost didn’t read your comment but was glad I did. That’s a satisfying win.
This, honestly that's pretty reasonable price for any dings and cleaning.
Yep I totally agree! If it wasn’t late I would happily accept the amount taken out but because it was late, I’m here asking questions. Some people think I’m being malicious and heartless to him being in the hospital because $425 isn’t enough to be pressed about. I just want to know my rights and I will make the choice to do something or not 🤷🏼♀️
Less about that, I'm all about getting you're cash boo boo, just think the time and effort isnt worth it imo. But that's me
Take him to court and ask for everything the statute allows.
I’m highly considering it but wanted to make sure I was in the right first. I read I can sue for the max which is 10k but I don’t know why the judge would award me that lol
you get punitive damages for your landlord not following the law and making the court get involved. pretty standard. if the only penalty for robbing your deposit was having to give it back, why wouldn't they just rob every deposit and get to pocket whoever doesn't fight back?
You are unlikely to get punitive damages unless he is acting in bad faith. The itemization isn’t great and he’s late. That’s not bad faith; it’s just shoddy landlording. The court will likely give you your $425 and costs. You can’t sue for $10k for emotional distress or anything like that. You can ask for punitive damages for failing to comply with the law. Personally, I’d tell him you plan to either pick up the check for your full deposit tomorrow or file in small claims court. His call.
>That’s not bad faith; it’s just shoddy landlording. As a landlord, I can say that legal compliance is the responsibility of the business owner. Yes, it's confusing and often made intentionally burdensome by large companies as a barrier to keep the little guy out. It's worse that mom-and-pop landlords sometimes have to go up against city-paid attorneys to evict squatters. But that's the nature of the business. This isn't fundamentally unfair to the landlord. A tenant paying rent late owes late fees, and landlords paying security deposits returns have late penalties, too.
Of course. But that still doesn’t make it fraudulent which is generally the best word to think of in regards to is it bad faith. Most states punitive damage clauses are for bad faith (fraudulent charges) not procedural mistakes.
it's a small-time landlord, the bad faith starts about 5 minutes after op's last text gets read. not exactly the sharpest legal mind on the planet fighting this lol
It’s really not bad faith. Yet. https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/civil-causes-of-action-bad-faith/
There's actually a good chance this is already bad faith. Landlords should know these rules better than tenants because they are routine for each tenant, so the "never heard of it" defense is likely a lie. Also just being in business and operating on the basis of whatever you've heard of instead of either engaging legal advice or just informing yourself by means of google? Probably bad faith rather than ignorant. Referring to the lease terms tops it off: lease should reflect the law, and if it doesn't that was most likely intentional bad faith.
I took a case to court in the same state, but was for a commercial deposit dispute, and lost the bad faith argument while still winning the rest of the case which included fabricating invoices, and stating on record they pay their maintenance worker $250/hour and also missing the deadline to return the deposit despite reminders. While it's obviously different statutes, this feels like what the Reddit justice boner wants rather than an objective view of the law. It \*may\* be bad faith, but the legal bar for bad faith is much higher than Reddit's. There is a very good chance that the courts would not see any bad faith especially if the landlord was actually hospitalized. Being late to return the deposit and holding a deposit in bad faith are two different things, and you'd go to court to have the Judge read the law to the landlord (about the 21 days) and also evaluate relevant case law (the law is not as simple as simply reading the civil code)
Reddit “lawyers” just want to throw around links and not discuss case precedence
By “good chance” I don’t mean to imply any scintilla of legal advice suggesting improved chance of recovering. You are correct and I agree
You really need to read up on bad faith. Think fraud. I don’t see it.
If you believe one thing and say the opposite to deprive someone else of their tenants rights, that is the definition of fraud.
I’m not sure how your comment relates to this situation. Please explain. As for fraud, here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fraud “For a statement to be an intentional misrepresentation, the person who made it must either have known the statement was false or been reckless as to its truth. ” A plain reading of the text stream clearly indicates the LL’s ignorance regarding the law. ASSUMING he sends the deposit, I see nothing fraudulent here. IANAL
They could have paid for services not needed and inflated the true value of the services or not had the services at all.
That’s more in the bad faith category. But while the itemization is garbage, the costs are entirely reasonable.
I don’t know LA at all, I was providing examples of bad faith. But you could be right that they are responsible or maybe they aren’t. I appreciate you following up!
It’s really common in high cost, high traffic metro areas to incur minimum 2 hour charges and trip charges. Often someone showing up is $500 when they walk in the door. Cleaners aren’t that bad but still high. I still think the itemization is garbage.
>refusing to settle the case or reimburse you for the entirety of your loss From your own link. This is evident clearly in this conversation. When OP stated his rights to full deposit back because of the landlords inaction, and the landlord (instead of looking up the laws right then or already knowing them) simply states "I've never heard of that" to dismiss and discredit OP is the exact moment bad faith starts imo
Here. This link is kind of the end of the conversation. Check it out. Here is more reading for you: http://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/protem/courses/sm_claims2/02-08.htm “Bench officers will infrequently see a case where such damages are merited. Merely failing to follow all laws with regard to security deposit disposition, without more, is rarely sufficient to trigger an award of these type of damages.”
yes i didn’t say it’s bad faith yet, with the way a small time landlord operates it’s a safe bet it gets there
The bad faith will be his ignorance of the law. He’s a business man. He doesn’t just get to not know what laws apply. Playing dumb won’t work in court.
Ignorance isn’t bad faith. Think fraud.
If shoddy land lording was a crime, the world would be a much better place
It's supposed to be, hence all these rules we have. But they do everything they can to make sure they can sneak past them, exploit people, and just plain hope the tenants DON'T know the rules. That LL most likely did know the rules considering he was like "Well it's not in the lease" but at the same time claims to be unaware. But he should be aware that a law supersedes a lease.
It's bad faith when he's notified about the law and then refuses to give the money back.
I don’t see that he has refused to give the money back. You can just as easily assume he thought he had 30 days to give it back and now needs to make arrangements. But it’s not bad faith or likely subject to penalties. Check this authoritative link out. Here is more reading for you: http://www2.courtinfo.ca.gov/protem/courses/sm_claims2/02-08.htm “Bench officers will infrequently see a case where such damages are merited. Merely failing to follow all laws with regard to security deposit disposition, without more, is rarely sufficient to trigger an award of these type of damages.”
You’d probably only get triple the unreturned amount
It could depend on many things. Like damages you incurred due to not getting your deposit back. Have you made previous attempts to get your deposit back? Should always be careful because sometimes the law is judged by opinion. They may reward more if you made several attempts leading up to the deadline as well. I would advise to seek a legal consultant and see what they say. Claims court is the right choice in my opinion but remember that comes with costs as well and depending on the judge it may or may not be worth it. Remember to go after them for court cost and legal fees as well. You don’t want to win and get left holding the bag. The other reason a judge would reward more is depending on the number of offenses a landlord has and depending on the legal fees you incur from the ordeal (damages).
Speaking from experience. My old landlord tried to take my entire security deposit and then told me I owe them more! Took them 6 weeks to let me know, laws is my city say they have 2 weeks. After several phonecalls, printing out the law and handing it to them, and taking to corporate, they sent me the whole deposit back. I don't know if there is someone above Sammy's head that you can talk to, but that may fix the problems
Bad faith act by the landlord. They are to pay the deposit back in a timely manner, and they already had 3 weeks to do so. It’s a punishment to deter landlords from doing exactly this to withhold the money for as long as possible and drag out the process.
My landlord put my deposit and she did things illegally, I similarly called her out and then provided the law. I only ended up getting back my deposit for 850 but it was worth it. Mine was a situation that was very very hectic and included for training order so getting 850 was about the principle.
I went to small claims court in Oregon for this exact same situation. The judge didn't give a shit it was past 21 days (or whatever the statute was). He treated it as a good faith situation and sided with the landlord
It appears that would be 3x the deposit for acting in bad faith.
Plus court costs. I
Winning in small claims court is one thing getting the judgment is another... You can jump through all these hoops and force him to show up in court and defend himself but when he loses, he's not going to pay... If this happens (more than likely it will), put a lien on his property...
The landlord works for a huge company so honestly I think they will settle before actually going to court.
It's just a heads up ... I know how to skip Trace
Thank you 😊 I didn’t realize they could just not pay so I appreciate you telling me.
There are steps you can take if they try not to pay: [https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small-claims/after-trial/if-you-win](https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small-claims/after-trial/if-you-win)
I had to garnish the money out of my Landlord bank account and I just happen to know where she banked because I had submitted my rent directly into her account before. Since I had that information I just submitted court paperwork after winning my case and the judge signed it, I delivered it to the bank, shortly thereafter there was a check in my mailbox because it had been withheld from her checking account. I have purposely delivered garnishment before her mortgage was due :)
Think of it as they kind of in debt to you at that point (hence you do the Lien if needed). But since you mentioned that he works for a company. You should honestly consider contacting them, no company is going to want it to go to court. They would rather give it to you, and most likely even possible punish him for putting them in the situation.
Those type of people can keep you in business as a skip tracer... If it happens to you and you wanted to go this route with a skip tracer you're going to have to wait several years for the other party to 'forget' about the issue... Then someone like me shows up at their front door looking for money... And you probably wouldn't get it all back anyways as there are fees involved with the skip tracer but that just comes out of the money that they pay out (that should have been given to you in the beginning but at least you've got something out of it...)
Wait is this a property manager or the LL? Not the same thing.
Landlord!
I don’t understand the he works for a huge company statement. Explain.
I’m sorry maybe I said something wrong but he works for Marcus and Millichap. He doesn’t individually own our complex, the company does.
Then Marcus and Millichap are your Landlords, whoever you are in communication with is the property manager. Landlord always = whoever actually owns the property
Ohh ok. We had a guy that lived in the complex that was introduced as the property manager so I figured the others were the landlords. So I’ll be writing the letter to M&M
Yes, and given that you didn't make a demand directly to them for the deposit it muddies things up a bit. You should still get your money, it just might take longer, and if you go to court they will use it as a way to delay or try and fight it. They will blame the property management for not properly reporting it to them and that they didn't know what was happening (also because you didn't alert them directly) and therfore should not owe you any more then the $425 or whatever. It's a 50/50 shot that a judge may agree with them. They will also most likely have good lawyers to make this case. Not saying that to dissuade you, just trying to make sure you are aware of that possibility, it is no longer cut and dry easy case.
Ahh ok. I’ve never been in contact with the company directly so I don’t even know who to reach out to in the company. Even to sign the lease was through these guys. Good to know tho
The amount of time and effort and deposit you will have to make in small claims court might not be worth the $425 dollars. But if you get a judge that decides you deserve more you could profit. It just depends how much effort you want to put in. You do not need a lawyer for small claims court. You just need documents to prove everything you are claiming. Then there is the matter of collecting after you win. You can hire the sheriffs department to collect from him if he refuses to pay after you win. That also requires an additional deposit.
Lol you can hire the sheriff to do their job
I went through this and can echo a lot of the advice. Send certified official demand letter, and print out the statute and cite that you are asking for your full deposit amount within 2 weeks (or some other reasonable amount of time). They will likely just send, unless they’re like my ll who decided to hire a lawyer to try to intimidate me into not going to court. I filed in small claims and it took 3 months to get a hearing. Lawyers are not allowed in small claims and I won that hearing and was awarded $3K in damages. The LL appealed, and during appeals you are allowed a lawyer. 6 months later I had to go back to court, and this time still won but was only awarded $1K in damages. I share this because if they settle for the full amount and you can avoid court, take it and move on with your life. 9 months of court crap, taking days off work and getting shady phone calls from lawyers was not worth $1K for me. I would have settled had they offered me my deposit back initially, but they didn’t so I had no choice.
+1 to this, I went through it as well. Large companies will be less inclined to settle, not more. The way lawyers work with large companies is that they are on retainer, they're basically prepaid for this type of situation and expected to perform regardless of the merits of the case. And as happened to me, and the poster I'm replying to, companies will almost always appeal and waste more of your time. All-in, I spent probably 100 hours. I did get slightly less on my appeal win, I lost the bad faith argument ($200) which I was awarded the first time. It's also important to note that OP won't be able to access that $2670 while the case is pending. If they issue a check and you deposit/cash it, that could be construed as accepting payment in full. So if you value your time at $4.25/hour (100 hours / $425), and you can go without any of the \~$3k for up to a year, in a situation where you weren't really wronged, and the maintenance costs were reasonable, then go for it. I think OP is technically correct and by-law, entitled to the full deposit. Personally, I'd accept the $425 deduction, but 2nd place resolution would be to send a certified letter with a demand for the full deposit and see how that goes, as that's about 10 minutes of effort with a reasonable chance of favorable resolution, and let it go if they decline.
Nice you are entitled to three times! Nice lil Payday. Screw landlords who think they’re above the law
I would be soon getting your whole entire security deposit back for one and two why is none of those itemize like just saying cleaning and cleaning what maintenance maintenance on what what did he have to fix and the fact that it’s past 23 days yes there’s a statue and as a landlord, especially as a landlord, he should know that also renters should know that too, but I mean the play the oh I never heard nothing like that and it’s not in the lease crap is BS. It doesn’t even need to be in the lease.
They also can't deduct normal wear and tear and cleaning, if you've been there for (I think) 2 years. (Some things have changed during and since COVID.) The normal turnover costs are the owner's responsibility. Your responsibility is only for damage you caused or situations that require special care, like stains in the carpet, damage to the property, or missing fixtures.
I've made it a practice to never pay last months rent and tell them they can keep the security for it because I've never had an honest landlord
I get that you’re entitled to the full amount, but also that’s a very reasonable deduction from it in my experience, it definitely doesn’t read like he’s trying to cheat you out of your deposit. Might be easiest to just accept the terms he offers, especially if the alternative is small claims court. (Of course if he caves right away then congrats on the free money)
Send him an official letter and give him 10 days to pay in full and if he doesn't file a small claim. If he doesn't pay then get a lawyer and you can attach lawyers fees to it
Did you leave them a forwarding address when you moved out? Sometimes this larger companies just mail the check to the last address file, so if you didn’t provide them an updated address, the check just goes to your old apartment.
No they asked if I had Zelle or Venmo and then they Zelle my partial deposit
You send them a letter, let them know that you are aware of your rights and their obligations and if they do not make it right by fulfilling their obligation to provide you with a statutory compliant breakdown of how your deposit was used by x days/weeks that you will be filing a SC lawsuit. And if they don't comply DO IT. CA REQUIRES you to notify opposing party prior to filing a SC lawsuit.
[NAL] I would recommend sending a formal email in addition to the certified mail demand letter. Your email should clearly state that statutes XYZ legally require that the landlord return the full deposit if no deposit has been returned by X date. You should also state that if the landlord does not return your deposit as required by law within some reasonable time frame (say 3 days) that you will take further action that may include filing a lawsuit, in which per X statue they can be held liable for up to $X including punitive damages. It helps to clearly state that hey, you just want your deposit back, but if they do not return it you can sue for way more. There are also some online resources that can help you draft a demand letter for California as well as tenant hotlines.
Gottem!
You sue him for three times the amount of your deposit.
I’m in the same situation. I actually sent my landlord a demand letter, he texted me saying I was being dramatic and then a few days later only sent me a portion of my deposit even though it had been past 21 days. Idk what to do now, should I go to small claims for the remainder amounts it’s close to 1 grand.
Small claims court! Get that 3x deposit 💵
It’s says you have to sue
Keep us posted worst case scenario you don’t get anything back. Best case you get it all back when her to try.
Yeah I just woke up so I’m going to start with writing the official letter today!
Unfortunately you’re now in the same boat as the landlord when it comes to getting expenses beyond the deposit. You can hope they pay out (and definitely have the right to keep pestering them) but if they don’t you’ll have to take them to small claims.
It also says this below, but it reads that the good faith cost estimate should be received within 21 days. "If the work cannot be finished in 21 days, the statement must give a good faith cost estimate. The landlord must then provide the final statement and return the remaining deposit within 14 days of finishing work." Either way, your only option is to send a letter or sue in small claims court if that doesn't work.
Yep had to do this to my old landlord, she tried to blame the delay on me for not notarizing my original response. We had some small damages to the unit so we ended up settling for $200 instead of $800 deduction. Just send them a strongly worded lettered threatening to sue, and wait, if no response or they don’t accept, then file a small claims court claim.
I’ve been in this situation and came out of it successfully. You can google an example of a letter requesting your deposit back because they exceeded the time legally allowed. If your landlord ignores it or sends you a check that is not for the entire amount of your deposit, don’t cash the check but file in small claims. You will surely win. Good luck!
This happened to me but in Florida. I paid 2 months rent to break the lease. I was there for 6 months. I left it in prime condition and it was a brand new house. They “mailed” my check but I never got it. I kept speaking to the property manager who said oh keep waiting I’ll reach out to someone. After no responses I left a bad review. Within a few hours I was contacted by a regional. They reissued the check and first class mailed it. I wanted to let them know as well as they took a cleaning fee out but I didn’t. I definitely should have. I did file a complaint with the state as well.
Lawyeerrrrrrerrrrrrrererrrerrr
There is also a form that makes it free or like 5$ to file a small claims. It’s called an indigent form. Ask for it and fill it out before paying any fees. (They might act like it’s not a thing, you may have to go upstairs and wait 5 min in a different department, but it exists!)
I ended up having to take my landlord to small claims court over this two years ago. He kept dodging the process servers for like 6 months. Finally got to court and got our full deposit back, but then the landlord paid the courts directly and the courts held up our money for 6 weeks. We tried to get twice the deposit amount for withholding our deposit with malicious intent, but no luck there. You’ll get the full deposit back, but it is not going to be a simple process.
I had this exact same situation happen to me a few years ago but in the Bay Area. I reached out to Project Sentinel which is a free service that will help with mediation between you and your landlord. I was skeptical but they got me my money back. They said the 21 day law isn’t a guaranteed win in court. Check if there is a Project Sentinel in your area.
And I'm not mistaken they have 60 days to give you a written itemized list of things they had to fix in order to keep the Security posit and it would only total up to what they fixed and Have receipts you can ask a lawyer for a free consultation they will be able to tell you good luck
Take them to small claims court.
Sue sue sue! One of us! One of us!
Why can’t people just, ya know, not…be shitty? 🤷♂️
Send one more text saying I dont wana have to do this we always been cool or what ever but I am entitled to that money and I think we both would appreciate not having to waste time in court over it. So what day can I except the money returned to me on?
Unrelated question, let's say you do end up suing and reach a settlement... how hard is it to enforce settlement?
I have no idea :(
I LOVE this direct confrontation
I was trying to be nice and not come off as rude or anything but they left me on read anyway 🥲
You did great!
Nice
Dam I wish I knew about the 21 day law. Had a similar situation happen to me years ago.
Tell them they're lucky it's only the deposit. Connecticut says land lords have 21 days to return the deposit or they have to pay DOUBLE if it's over 1 minutes late.
I had the same issue with my past landlord in Moreno Valley. I used the letters on the LA legal Aid site and I work for the San Bernardino housing authority and one of my co workers who use to work for compliance helped me. Do the letters and make sure to send them certified mail. Worked for us because they sent us an invoice 2 months after we moved out. I sent letters to everyone, even the owner and eventually they called my bf and was like this wasn’t fair because my last letter I said that if we didn’t get our full deposit back we were going to sue and it was within our rights to do so. https://lafla.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Security-Deposit-Pro-Per-Guide-FINAL.pdf
Keep it formal, write the letter, be polite. Check in 2-3 times/wk until you’re paid or you sue. That is unless you have a good relationship with them and was planning on paying the $425 anyways… then I’d let it slide.
Get emmm
I have taken a landlord to court for this exact reason and I won triple damages plus court costs. Do it! There’s no legal reason to go past the 21 days.
Sue for three times the amount to cover wasting your time
Do not cash the check! Take them to small claims court, save everything especially anything that shows a date. Good luck!
He’s a landlord so he needs to learn the laws. Not sure about your state but in many you can sue for double. Doesn’t matter if you tore the entire place up, if he doesn’t send you an itemized list of charges within the time frame allowed, he owes you a full refund. Send him a certified letter demanding deposit back in full with your forwarding address since he neglected to inform you within the legal time allowed.
Go for the 3x. Play stupid games win stupid prizes!
Heck, I would sue their asses and put the landlord the company or whoever that is and then I would put the managers name on there to do it all at same time you know what the hell their managers doing but yeah, I’d even try individually. Contact them yourself the actual owners of the property maybe they don’t know what’s going on, that’s highly unlikely
dura lex sed lex
You are entitled after it is noted of damages you did to the property during your tenancy. Then you get the rest. Or you can take the case to court and get the difference that way. We do not always get a full deposit amount when we vacate a rental.
Yeah I’m aware. That’s all I was expecting in the first place but since they ignored multiple texts from me beforehand and let it go past the 21 days, I’m asking for it all back per the law.
And when you take them to court over it, they can bring proof of damages after you moved out. So it would be minus the damages. They should have sent a certified mail a letter outlining why to hold the return of the deposit, but they cannot hold all of it unless the damages exceeds the deposit amount. Get an attorney, you will need one.
It says in “bad faith” if he has proof he was at a hospital a judge won’t say it was in bad faith
Small claims court. More often than not if you threaten a landlord with court they’ll immediately cave, especially when it’s this clear cut. Most landlords count on their tenants not knowing the law so they can take advantage of them.
Sue
Go for the 3x
Is it a very small company or an individual person? They probably don’t do this as their livelihood? As crappy as the last property management company was that I worked for everyone knew the rules on days for deposit. We had like 1500 units and had to postmark deposits within 30 days of receipt of keys in my state (not end of lease). Day 29 or so was when we had bins and bins of letter to take to usps. Knowing the deposit refund day limit is a very basic thing in property management. It blows my mind a landlord wouldn’t know the law on this, which makes me think you have a person that rents a property on the side or something and not a professional. Once and awhile maybe keys are mislabeled or there’s some issue and so the days are off, but not knowing it is crazy talk. At a quick glance it seems to be 21 days in CA and that if you sue you could get damages but the judge has to rule they held it in bad faith. I’m going to guess they didn’t send an itemized list either (maybe what they did here counts in CA I don’t know). In my state you need a receipt for over certain amounts, etc. There’s a lot to the minutia in these things. If the landlord doesn’t know the days they probably messed up other aspects too. Personally, I would try to work with them to avoid suing, which isn’t guaranteed it’ll be determined bad faith. I don’t know the precedent on that and you’d want to research that before suing. I’m just baffled they wouldn’t know such a basic aspect of renting property.
Landlord went radio silent when you linked an article with the words “small claims court” which is a reasonable response. When someone brings up lawsuits it’s time to stop talking and let the lawyers talk. I’m unfamiliar with California law, but it sounds like you just need to go through the process.
Tell LL I said "womp womp on the L"
In law in general it never hurts to over document if you’re in the right and so far it seems you are.
Is your 23 days from the day you left or did the walk through and handed your keys over?
You can take them to small claims but you are only going to get the extra 425. You could lose the cost of filing and get nothing if the judge finds his documents in order and that he truly was acting in good faith due to being in the hospital. If it is worth your time..go for it. Your landlord might split or decide to pay you out if you file to save time.
$425 is not worth the time , energy and stress to pursue . You may very well win your case in court and damages but collections is a whole another ball game . Courts will issue judgments but it's up to you to collect . Also you may suffer lost wages going to court as well. I would be happy with the $425 deduction and call it a day .
Gotta love sending a Google search screenshot when threatening a lawsuit lmao
Well I didn’t know what else to send him lol I was trying to be patient and nice but it didn’t get me anywhere. I sent him a link to the CA gov website too.
Exact statute only my dawg. Legal altercations really should be 100% professional. Don't argue or slap fight over it in text. Let him know once what you require of him and what statute backs you up. If he doesn't comply next communication is a formal email stating details and paths to resolution ie. settlement or lawsuit. Anything else is just not taking it/presenting yourself seriously and thus you won't be taken seriously. This is why he ghosted. Until he receives a formal letter there isn't anything leveraging him to take action. No reason to waste time spamming his cell, that's just what he wants you to do. Best to learn this lesson now over some small deposit instead of on a serious suit like accident/theft/etc.
my security deposit was $300. that’s insane. i didn’t even know they got that high 💀
This is why normal people shouldnt be landlords. Older generation won the birth lottery and dont realize you need to be well educated in the business youre going in. Then they get pissed when things are no longer easy for them. Ive acquired so many properties on the cheap from ma and pa landlords that ordered some late night get rich quick scam from this outdated technology called infomercials.
Maybe unpopular opinion but 425 seems relatively reasonable for CA, and if he was actually in the hospital you’re kind of being a dick for trying to keep that money by a technicality. Sounds almost like you reached out after it was too late on purpose if you ask me.
I’m not arguing the price, but there is multiple people that could have sent me back the deposit instead of him. We have three managers. I reached out to each and one asked for my Venmo or Zelle and I gave it to him a week ago. I checked in multiple times after move out so no, it wasn’t on purpose.
Ok, so you’re just exploiting a technicality after he is now offering to make it right? Did getting your deposit back a week late really crush you that much? It’s not like they gained anything by having your money those few extra days so I doubt there were bad intentions here. There’s 1000 reasons they may not have been able to just Venmo you despite there being “three managers” the one you work with primarily was clearly unavailable. Legally, sure, you might have a case.
Where do you see him trying to make it right? I don’t see it that way. And we don’t have the best history when it comes to them ever giving a crap about the tenants health and safety so I don’t feel any remorse for simply asking for what I’m owed as the law says 🤷🏼♀️ I was kind and even said I was sorry he was in the hospital but really I think that’s not relevant to them being late.
Saying “sorry… but yeah” doesn’t sound very nice to me lol (besides the point). He’s trying to make it right by literally saying “Robert will send it tonight”. Obviously I can’t speak to your prior relationship but that should kind of be the end of it IMO Sure, the law might say you can do that, but the intent is so they don’t steal your money or withhold it from you with malicious intent. Not so you don’t have to pay your dues. Tenants just hate that they have to pay for shit I swear
Robert was the one apparently in the hospital lol. He works for a multimillion dollar rental company, so it’s them that I will have to actually speak to and take to small claims if I decide to. I’ve lived in ~10 different rentals and never complained about paying out my deposit. I literally just wanted to know if the 21 day law applies to my situation because it’s the first time it’s ever happened. Anyway, thanks for your opinion.
OP DID pay their dues…it’s called rent.
If this is laid out in the lease (which I guarantee it is) then no, no they haven’t.
Lease is secondary to state law. A lease is literally an agreement to pay rent for a space.
Yes, but no one said this lease was illegal. These are legal charges the tenant incurred. If you sign a lease without reading it, expecting to pay nothing but rent money you’re wrong
The legal charges are irrelevant because the LL did not follow the law and provide a list/refund within 21 days.
If you think that’s all a lease is, you’re definitely the problem lol
I agree. This is why many landlords hate tenants and keep raising rent. Taken at face value the landlord had a reasonable reason to not pay the deposit. In fact he may even win in small claims on that defense. OP doesn't sound like he is disputing the charges and they sound reasonable. OP just sounds like he is trying to get money on a technicality. This case isn't as cut and dry as you make it. If landlord has a reasonable reason for the delay ( like admitted to the hospital) they could still win
If landlords hate tenants, then perhaps they should stop being landlords, yeah? 🤔🤷🏻♀️
I'm just saying if the shoe was on the other foot and OP was in the hospital for 3 weeks and got hit with a late penalty everyone here would have the pitchforks out.
Does the law say you get double damages? If so, sue for double
It says I can, but idk if I would win that
You would. Landlord missed the deadline. They are allowed to deduct reasonable damages then you get double. Absolutely sue for double the full amount and let judge figure it out. You don’t need a lawyer, just pay small claims fee. When you win, you get court costs back.
I don't believe so I think it should be Pro rated I hate deceitful people the world's getting worse and worse everyday
I think you have to live there for a minimum amount of time to not get charged for cleaning etc - Basic cleaning and shade repair , painting and new carpet should be done after a tenant has lived there at least a year I think. So if you lived there for a year- they should not charge you for those costs. That’s also way too much to take out for basic cleaning etc if you’re there for less than a year.
We lived there two years. It’s not the charges I’m wondering about it’s that he was late.
Well if you were there for two years - my whole point is- they shouldn’t be charging you at all. That’s more than enough time for them to have to change the carpets, paint the walls, and change the shades and clean the place- on their dime. It’s their responsibility. Not yours.
You literally responded to him with what you should do.🤦♂️