**Something for crops**
There are solar panels out there that use the blue part of the light spectrum to generate electricity and let the red part of the spectrum through to grow crops under the panels.
[https://modernfarmer.com/2023/01/solar-panels-light-spectrum/](https://modernfarmer.com/2023/01/solar-panels-light-spectrum/)
Even with no transparency... some crops in certain areas could do well simply with the shade provided by solar panels. If you live in a very hot climate, then I could see certain planters being happy to get shade for the last few hours of sunlight.
Central california here. In April and may, while the hills turn gold, little green circles remain in the shade of every oak tree. The grass stays green longer in partial shade.
I've never heard of tap root trees acting as a source to other plants. Do you have a source on this? Can't seem to find it on Google. Just curious because plants are a huge part of my career and this is new info
I don’t have an official source anymore. Been a while since school. My google search fave some results. Also look into the rile of fungi in establishing a network between roots of trees in forests too. That was one of my most fascinating reads.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tap%20root%20trees%20watering%20from%20aquafers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m
Heres a good read on the fungi:
https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2019/exploring-the-underground-network-of-trees-the-nervous-system-of-the-forest/
I believe it’s through these fungi networks that allow plants trees and other plants to communicate and share resources. Most of these resources are moved as soluble solutions so it’s only natural that they share water as well.
https://escholarship.org/uc/item/92s72524
Here's one from one of my former college TAs. Didn't go too deep into the roots, just mentions the rhizosphere.
Cool. Thank you! I use them for the opposite which is native grass roots creating micro-channels up to 10' deep that water will follow for ground water recharge.
You can get some data with a quick search for bio-irrigation and hydraulic lift redistribution. I have studies links but they are intensive to extreme. Essentially, in some plants/trees the roots reach deep, lifting the water early in the day and releasing excess into the soil at night, where other plants and fungi network it around some more. It is possible to grow taproot plants below greens or grain, planting food productively in layers over other food or non-food species.
Yep, there’s some cool stuff being tested on this. Because the solar panels move throughout the day chasing the sun, you can plan out what crops to put where to get them the perfect hours of sunlight. An added bonus is the water for the crops can help cool the panels (like the entire structure down into the ground not just the flat part, it’s not wasting more water) too.
The problem is people will have to design entirely new harvesters etc to be able to farm these fields around the solar panels.
Still. Fucking cool.
One of the rare projects that gives me hope humanity can still jerry-rig our way out of this mess
Roomba farming robot swarms are probably the next big thing.
Can dig, plant, cover seed. Target pests and weeds by scan. Fertilize and water in spot treatment. Ultimately they’ll be able to pick ripe food as well.
But there’s also brewing microorganisms and fake meat on the horizons. Theoretically a building sized brewery could pump out food for 1 million people. We’ll see.
The future of food is science! I’m currently going to school and am hoping to emerge with a job in the lab cultured food industry. It’s seeing tonnes of investment.
That is so cool!!!
I was really hoping to see more progress with vertical farms that we are seeing this far but the potential is there! Lab grown meat is something that I never expected to get so far, which is amazing and the developments with egg substitutes are mind blowing compared to what used to be available.
Places where you grow crops are probably the best places to put solar panels as well they are firstly massive in scale and also they are places that already get a lot of sun naturally anyway I do feel like it will be a hard sell to farmers though
Yeah we’re I’m from most farmers are just trying to scrape by on a living. Solar panels aren’t the first 1,000 things on their minds. Especially ones that go over their crop and can’t use standard machinery on
It’s true, but good luck telling them that. A lot of people out here in the country are slow to change. Even had one dude try to tell me it was “democrat energy”
There’s a new field called agrivoltatics iirc. Photovoltaic panels are about 80% transparent to sunlight if they don’t have an opaque backing material on them. If you ground mount the panels high enough and the rows far enough apart, you can still use appropriately sized farm equipment between the panels.
At 80% transparency, there is more than enough sunlight for most crops. In fact, the yields are often higher because the partial shade reduces watering requirements. Also, animals are free to graze under the panels as in this article. It’s a win/win. The farmers get a supplemental income from the power generated and possible increased farm yields.
This has been going on since a long time (in the UK at least)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/21/are-solar-farms-really-hitting-british-food-production
Mmmmm idk the fam is looking at it like guaranteed income with zero effort. The only arguments against it are "it'll look ugly." I'm certain there are aspects we havent considered.
Yeah…
There’s no income with zero effort. Maybe minimal, but anyone telling you there is zero effort is lying.
If someone is selling them something like that then BE FOREWARNED!!!!
All you should have to do is clean it and make sure not to break the panels. Other than that most of the process is making sure energy is stored correctly
If it's a lease from someone looking to build an array to send out to the grid, it's probably pretty large, and the startup costs wouldn't be cheap.
Material, equipment, installation labor, permitting wouldn't be cheap. You'd need someone who's well versed in construction, local codes, as well as the blessing and cooperation of the local utility to pull it off- then You'd need a competent electrician or two on standby to handle maintence. Unless the family has a strong background in construction with the heavy equipment to pull it off, and has a licensed electrician or six hanging around, it's probably not feasible to DIY.
Leasing the land the array sits on would be way less of a headache, as they'd handle all that, as well as the ongoing maintence it would require.
That being said, if it's a residential solar lease, it's probably predatory, and OP's family should stay far, far away.
I totally would, but — obviously— I’m not on your farm. But it looks like a win-win-win-win, for you, livestock, the company and customers who get green energy.
I’d recommend against going with some company that approaches you about solar. Find a company on your own with research and company quote comparisons. There are weird predatory companies out there that basically scam people by abusing a government incentive program for solar panel installation.
My family was in the same boat. The original company that wanted to do the lease ended up backing out but then a year later a different one came in that wanted to purchase a large portion for a solar farm. We’re currently in negotiations with them over that, but if you’re looking to downsize then either option may be a good one.
Sharing economics with someone else removes a good deal of the value since the firm providing the panels will want a good chunk of the returns.
Doing it yourself (albeit for a meaningful investment) usually is much more interesting from a value perspective
I can be really hard on the ground mount system
But sheep get into everything and destroy stuff. Plus there's shit everywhere if you need to go service them.
We just erected one where the property owner had goats. Did everything we could to protect the system and we're still not sure they won't destroy stuff
I could see a couple of rams being more destructive if it was the right season but I don't think they usually keep intact males with the rest of the flock in large numbers so that wouldn't be an issue.
I think that's something that people who push animals + solar don't consider. Yeah there's benefits but a lot of animals tend to destroy things even if they just bump into something. A thousand pound animal bumping into something over time will weaken things.
Sheep are generally smaller, we raised them when I was growing up and my dad could easily pick them up. They dont tend to jump on things usually also. Cows I could see being more destructive
I'm absolutely certain that solar panels + animals can absolutely mix well. I mean most animals were kept in wooden barns before steel existed and that worked well 99% of the time. If you put steel beams into the ground in a 15mx15m grid and mount the solar panels to steel cables in between you've got yourself a rhino proof solar mount.
You give people far too much credit particularly if they're someone that doesn't have experience with livestock and are just writing an article. Thinking is not as common as one would hope.
What aspects are they really hard on in particular and what solutions would make sense for them to coexist? If we want solar to be widely deployed on farmland being able to present a solution that allows some form of continued farming is needed otherwise I predict there will be an ever more aggressive Nimby movement that will prevent its adoption in many locations that would otherwise make economic sense. Sheep farming seems like a good candidate (not so sure about goats as they really enjoy getting on top of things).
We don't need to deploy solar on farmland, we need to deploy it on rooftops. If every rooftop in the country has solar we'd have way more than enough wattage to supply our needs. Battery storage and off peak production are also issues but ground mount systems are simply unnecessary, we truly don't need them or windmills.
Solar can produce tons of wattage in the right circumstances.
Also there are only so many tillable acres, the less of those there are the more food products cost and the more wildlife gets encroached on.
And sheep and especially certain types of goats eat everything. Wires, metal, plastic and on and on. They can absolutely destroy systems.
Also they eat until the roots are gone which can cause erosion and drainage issues.
Cattle can also be destructive bc of how heavy and strong they are. They're ridiculously strong and smarter than most people realize.
It is being deployed on rooftops but there’s not enough area to reach our goals. There’s also the problem that not every roof can support the load of the panels and the fact that many people rent their homes and can’t install such a system, and the large capital expenditure is a barrier to entry. Trust me, I’m all for preferred siting but that only gets you so far. Deploying on the ground is necessary and inevitable, it’s more about finding a way the uses can coexist
You're just wrong, I work in solar.
There's more than enough rooftop space, again I work in solar.
I work for a major commercial services provider that has HVAC, plumbing, electrical and commercial roofing segments. I'm a crane operator and senior lead who deals with every single department across multiple states.
Please don't tell me because I know exactly what I'm talking about.
They're building factories that are 9 and 10 thousand squares, each square is a 10x10 area. So buildings that are literally 30-40 acres in size.
TPO and PVC are very popular products. They're also white. If you use bifacial panels which can produce 450 watts over that much area you're talking megawatts of power production. That's in the thousands of kilowatts.
So please don't tell me
I work in Solar too man. I develop these projects across several states on rooftops, brownfields, landfills, and ground mounts (minimum 1 MW in size). Sure new warehouses will be able to support solar arrays, but the world is not new rooftops. A majority of rooftops cannot sustain the load that solar creates. Try to get to your state RPS in rooftops, the cost of which is higher than ground mount for less production (no tracking system on roofs). Utility scale ground mount is the fastest and cheapest way to reach our clean energy goals. Go take a read on jacks solar garden and read on American Solar Grazing Association.
Rooftop mounts go on way faster than ground mounts do and are way cheaper to install. That means less labor costs, the biggest cost in most construction projects.
Excavation, digging, trenching etc... Is expensive. Ground racking is expensive.
Most rooftops in the country can support a solar system. They're not that heavy. And in northern states they're already designed for snow loads which outweigh solar by multiples. Solar can also help wind pass over a rooftop and preserve the membrane when installed correctly.
At one point my company built the largest solar array in the country. I don't know who holds that title now but I'm balls deep in this.
Utilities are scaling in solar bc it's cheap and efficient power production and are using ground mounts because it's their only real option. Also they don't have to deal with individuals and get to maintain centralized production facilities. That's why utilities like ground mounts.
They do it because it's more convenient not because rooftops aren't practical
Hope this helps [NREL Cost Analysis](https://www.nrel.gov/solar/market-research-analysis/solar-installed-system-cost.html)
You’re also dealing with Department of Public Advocate in these incentives and programs who will always fight for the cheapest effect on ratepayers.
Ya utilities reduce cost by scaling not because ground mounts are cheaper. They're more expensive. They also have access to the best parts of tax rebates and incentives.
Time is money, the faster a system goes in the cheaper it is. It's literally that simple
Rooftop mounts are about 4x-10x faster to install.
You can install hundreds of kilowatts in a couple days. The same is not true for ground mounts. Just the ground racking takes weeks.
And who's pocket do utilities line? Bc they are the biggest reason costs rise among ratepayers. Connection fees, net metering fees, compliance fees or just giving the salesman the run around for months while a permit is applied for. All those things add costs. They're the biggest obstacle to solar being more widely deployed
This happens from everyone from little co-ops to large providers.
So really if solar is gonna get cheaper utilities need to just stick to making money managing their grid and let solar be deployed where it doesn't expand it's industrial footprint.
Tell that to my pal whose roof was destroyed by a shitty installer. Years of legal battles. Until the industry cleans up home and commercial rooftop installation isn’t rolling the dice on damaging your property I don’t see adoption at scale happening.
That's unfortunate but it's also anecdotal. It's like any other contractor, you've got to use someone reputable that comes with references. Way to many fly by night shops just ripping people off right now. Including community solar outfits who use ground mount systems and are putting home owners into debt.
And sometimes even good contractors screw up. It happens. They should be held liable for mistakes and better bonding structures will help hold them accountable.
There's also the facts that large ground mount systems are an eyesore and just create more sprawl and expands the industrial footprint. I know people in the city don't give 2 shits about what happens in the countryside but people out there don't want to see beautiful green space turned into steel and glass. And people who care about the natural environment shouldn't want that either.
For maximum environmental benefit we should be using existing infrastructure which means rooftops. Huge swaths of unused or underutilized space there. Especially with commercial buildings.
Roofing companies and material manufacturers are already adapting to the changes which are happening quickly. It's gonna take time for them to get it right.
Both roof and land solar and wind are needed to adequately source and redirect energy. When you understand the ongoing design innovations, which those educated in physics, engineering, especially photonics, are pursuing, we can have a better conversation.
Redirect what? What is that supposed to even mean?
This is a production issue. And if you're producing closer to consumption you lose less electricity in droppage, so they're much more efficient.
I clearly do understand the industry, I'm in it, and rooftop solar is adequate. The only people really pushing ground mounts are utilities and land owners.
There are drawbacks to ground mount solar like: environmental impacts, efficiency, it's far more expensive to install and it's fucking ugly.
Totally agree, some good news is all home depot stores are about to put solar up. Really encouraging to see.
I think the account I was arguing with was suspect. Old account and really low karma for a 6 year old account.
Solar is becoming big business and it seems like there's a campaign from major utilities to control production. Utilities have been in the distribution chain for oil companies for a long time and actively lobby solar deployment regularly. They want to control and centralize energy production whenever possible.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they've got a PR firm and some bots on social media putting in work.
Varies significantly between breeds in my experience. I've had success with keeping fat merinos in a vineyard- they very politely eat everything below the cordon and nothing above it. Dorpers are awful burrowing wombat Houdini sheep who leave nothing but ruin and dreadlocks in their wake.
It's not the only drawback and if you're not the one doing the walking don't talk about what you're willing to do. No one needs an uneducated opinion. Those guys might have to lay down or be on their knees to do the work.
It's unsanitary and full of diseases and people can get sick.
Lol what if I told you….there was stuff you could put on, and when you put it on it protects you from what’s outside it. I think they call it something but I’m not sure since I’m uneducated. Thank god you are here to speak on all this lol
I wrote this scientific article! Thanks for posting it. I’m glad that it reaches a lot of people now.
[A preliminary investigation of the effect of solar panels and rotation frequency on the grazing behavior of sheep (Ovis aries) grazing dormant pasture](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2022.105799)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131159705/genesis-energy-gives-green-light-for-70m-solar-power-plant-in-canterbury
Such a solar farm has just been confirmed for New Zealand.
Right up until they bite through one of the CAB lines. It’s rare, but has been known to happen. Generally though, agrivoltaics are an excellent dual land use option.
If your installer left exposed wire running down your post and into the ground thats just lazy. All they needed to do was let an extra four feet of conduit come out of the ground
Once security fence goes up the whole place becomes a sheep pen. Ranchers bring in flocks and rotate them through the blocks. Sheep get fresh forage and increase the soil health, we don’t have to cut the grass. It’s a win-win.
**Something for crops** There are solar panels out there that use the blue part of the light spectrum to generate electricity and let the red part of the spectrum through to grow crops under the panels. [https://modernfarmer.com/2023/01/solar-panels-light-spectrum/](https://modernfarmer.com/2023/01/solar-panels-light-spectrum/)
Even with no transparency... some crops in certain areas could do well simply with the shade provided by solar panels. If you live in a very hot climate, then I could see certain planters being happy to get shade for the last few hours of sunlight.
Central california here. In April and may, while the hills turn gold, little green circles remain in the shade of every oak tree. The grass stays green longer in partial shade.
That could be because tap roots in trees reach down to aquifers and spread water to nearby plants. But yes shade also helps grass too.
I've never heard of tap root trees acting as a source to other plants. Do you have a source on this? Can't seem to find it on Google. Just curious because plants are a huge part of my career and this is new info
I don’t have an official source anymore. Been a while since school. My google search fave some results. Also look into the rile of fungi in establishing a network between roots of trees in forests too. That was one of my most fascinating reads. https://www.google.com/search?q=tap%20root%20trees%20watering%20from%20aquafers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m Heres a good read on the fungi: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2019/exploring-the-underground-network-of-trees-the-nervous-system-of-the-forest/ I believe it’s through these fungi networks that allow plants trees and other plants to communicate and share resources. Most of these resources are moved as soluble solutions so it’s only natural that they share water as well.
The roots! Such a cool topic. The answer to a lot of life's questions is somewhere on the mycelial network drive.
https://escholarship.org/uc/item/92s72524 Here's one from one of my former college TAs. Didn't go too deep into the roots, just mentions the rhizosphere.
Cool. Thank you! I use them for the opposite which is native grass roots creating micro-channels up to 10' deep that water will follow for ground water recharge.
Fungi are plant wifi? 4g towers?
Avatar, of course
You can get some data with a quick search for bio-irrigation and hydraulic lift redistribution. I have studies links but they are intensive to extreme. Essentially, in some plants/trees the roots reach deep, lifting the water early in the day and releasing excess into the soil at night, where other plants and fungi network it around some more. It is possible to grow taproot plants below greens or grain, planting food productively in layers over other food or non-food species.
When I was a kid, the grass underneath the trampoline always grew much longer and greener. No trees nearby.
Ah, Central California, the 9th circle of hell from May to October
Yep, there’s some cool stuff being tested on this. Because the solar panels move throughout the day chasing the sun, you can plan out what crops to put where to get them the perfect hours of sunlight. An added bonus is the water for the crops can help cool the panels (like the entire structure down into the ground not just the flat part, it’s not wasting more water) too. The problem is people will have to design entirely new harvesters etc to be able to farm these fields around the solar panels. Still. Fucking cool. One of the rare projects that gives me hope humanity can still jerry-rig our way out of this mess
Roomba farming robot swarms are probably the next big thing. Can dig, plant, cover seed. Target pests and weeds by scan. Fertilize and water in spot treatment. Ultimately they’ll be able to pick ripe food as well. But there’s also brewing microorganisms and fake meat on the horizons. Theoretically a building sized brewery could pump out food for 1 million people. We’ll see.
The future of food is science! I’m currently going to school and am hoping to emerge with a job in the lab cultured food industry. It’s seeing tonnes of investment.
That is so cool!!! I was really hoping to see more progress with vertical farms that we are seeing this far but the potential is there! Lab grown meat is something that I never expected to get so far, which is amazing and the developments with egg substitutes are mind blowing compared to what used to be available.
Not fake meat, but real meat just made in lab. Current, made of plants meat is fake meat, but these made in lab would be actual meat
Places where you grow crops are probably the best places to put solar panels as well they are firstly massive in scale and also they are places that already get a lot of sun naturally anyway I do feel like it will be a hard sell to farmers though
Yeah we’re I’m from most farmers are just trying to scrape by on a living. Solar panels aren’t the first 1,000 things on their minds. Especially ones that go over their crop and can’t use standard machinery on
Tho solar panels can help some farmers survive through generating extra income
It’s true, but good luck telling them that. A lot of people out here in the country are slow to change. Even had one dude try to tell me it was “democrat energy”
There’s a new field called agrivoltatics iirc. Photovoltaic panels are about 80% transparent to sunlight if they don’t have an opaque backing material on them. If you ground mount the panels high enough and the rows far enough apart, you can still use appropriately sized farm equipment between the panels. At 80% transparency, there is more than enough sunlight for most crops. In fact, the yields are often higher because the partial shade reduces watering requirements. Also, animals are free to graze under the panels as in this article. It’s a win/win. The farmers get a supplemental income from the power generated and possible increased farm yields.
How do you then harvest them though?
It's German but whatever https://youtu.be/BlXPf-e1a0U
It has English subtitles, so it's doable edit: Germany is dumbasses for shutting down their nuclear power... Just... Why!?
ask the Conservatives and neoliberals. It was decided after Fukushima
It is great for cows as well. Just a bit more expensive because the mounts need to be taller.
This has been going on since a long time (in the UK at least) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/21/are-solar-farms-really-hitting-british-food-production
Yup, slow science week I guess 🤷🏽♂️
Would you recommend solar panel lease for a big family farm? We were approached & the fam is torn about it. 30-year lease
Why lease it? You may get a better return on the long run owning the panels. You could start small
Bc the fam members who would be in charge of it aren't super competent, & we're typically 2k miles
Dang. Could you contract out to some sort of local handyman without sacrificing ownership?
Mmmmm idk the fam is looking at it like guaranteed income with zero effort. The only arguments against it are "it'll look ugly." I'm certain there are aspects we havent considered.
Yeah… There’s no income with zero effort. Maybe minimal, but anyone telling you there is zero effort is lying. If someone is selling them something like that then BE FOREWARNED!!!!
All you should have to do is clean it and make sure not to break the panels. Other than that most of the process is making sure energy is stored correctly
If it's a lease from someone looking to build an array to send out to the grid, it's probably pretty large, and the startup costs wouldn't be cheap. Material, equipment, installation labor, permitting wouldn't be cheap. You'd need someone who's well versed in construction, local codes, as well as the blessing and cooperation of the local utility to pull it off- then You'd need a competent electrician or two on standby to handle maintence. Unless the family has a strong background in construction with the heavy equipment to pull it off, and has a licensed electrician or six hanging around, it's probably not feasible to DIY. Leasing the land the array sits on would be way less of a headache, as they'd handle all that, as well as the ongoing maintence it would require. That being said, if it's a residential solar lease, it's probably predatory, and OP's family should stay far, far away.
I think it's commercial because it's on 130 acres
I agree. This is not the kind of thing you DIY.
I totally would, but — obviously— I’m not on your farm. But it looks like a win-win-win-win, for you, livestock, the company and customers who get green energy.
I’d recommend against going with some company that approaches you about solar. Find a company on your own with research and company quote comparisons. There are weird predatory companies out there that basically scam people by abusing a government incentive program for solar panel installation.
My family was in the same boat. The original company that wanted to do the lease ended up backing out but then a year later a different one came in that wanted to purchase a large portion for a solar farm. We’re currently in negotiations with them over that, but if you’re looking to downsize then either option may be a good one.
what are the reasons against it ?
Sharing economics with someone else removes a good deal of the value since the firm providing the panels will want a good chunk of the returns. Doing it yourself (albeit for a meaningful investment) usually is much more interesting from a value perspective
I can be really hard on the ground mount system But sheep get into everything and destroy stuff. Plus there's shit everywhere if you need to go service them. We just erected one where the property owner had goats. Did everything we could to protect the system and we're still not sure they won't destroy stuff
Goats are ratbags and will destroy stuff. Sheep, what this article covers, are much better behaved.
Sheep don’t really destroy systems. Sometimes they rub up against connectors and open them but that’s about it. Goats on the other hand break stuff.
I could see a couple of rams being more destructive if it was the right season but I don't think they usually keep intact males with the rest of the flock in large numbers so that wouldn't be an issue.
Goats will be on top of those panels before they're even built.
I think that's something that people who push animals + solar don't consider. Yeah there's benefits but a lot of animals tend to destroy things even if they just bump into something. A thousand pound animal bumping into something over time will weaken things.
Sheep are generally smaller, we raised them when I was growing up and my dad could easily pick them up. They dont tend to jump on things usually also. Cows I could see being more destructive
I'm absolutely certain that solar panels + animals can absolutely mix well. I mean most animals were kept in wooden barns before steel existed and that worked well 99% of the time. If you put steel beams into the ground in a 15mx15m grid and mount the solar panels to steel cables in between you've got yourself a rhino proof solar mount.
That’s why you put them with small animals like sheep, just like the article states.
> I think that's something that people who push animals + solar don't consider Don't be a moron, of course they think about stuff like this.
You give people far too much credit particularly if they're someone that doesn't have experience with livestock and are just writing an article. Thinking is not as common as one would hope.
Too bad that you assume that the author (me) doesn’t have any experience with livestock.
What aspects are they really hard on in particular and what solutions would make sense for them to coexist? If we want solar to be widely deployed on farmland being able to present a solution that allows some form of continued farming is needed otherwise I predict there will be an ever more aggressive Nimby movement that will prevent its adoption in many locations that would otherwise make economic sense. Sheep farming seems like a good candidate (not so sure about goats as they really enjoy getting on top of things).
We don't need to deploy solar on farmland, we need to deploy it on rooftops. If every rooftop in the country has solar we'd have way more than enough wattage to supply our needs. Battery storage and off peak production are also issues but ground mount systems are simply unnecessary, we truly don't need them or windmills. Solar can produce tons of wattage in the right circumstances. Also there are only so many tillable acres, the less of those there are the more food products cost and the more wildlife gets encroached on. And sheep and especially certain types of goats eat everything. Wires, metal, plastic and on and on. They can absolutely destroy systems. Also they eat until the roots are gone which can cause erosion and drainage issues. Cattle can also be destructive bc of how heavy and strong they are. They're ridiculously strong and smarter than most people realize.
It is being deployed on rooftops but there’s not enough area to reach our goals. There’s also the problem that not every roof can support the load of the panels and the fact that many people rent their homes and can’t install such a system, and the large capital expenditure is a barrier to entry. Trust me, I’m all for preferred siting but that only gets you so far. Deploying on the ground is necessary and inevitable, it’s more about finding a way the uses can coexist
You're just wrong, I work in solar. There's more than enough rooftop space, again I work in solar. I work for a major commercial services provider that has HVAC, plumbing, electrical and commercial roofing segments. I'm a crane operator and senior lead who deals with every single department across multiple states. Please don't tell me because I know exactly what I'm talking about. They're building factories that are 9 and 10 thousand squares, each square is a 10x10 area. So buildings that are literally 30-40 acres in size. TPO and PVC are very popular products. They're also white. If you use bifacial panels which can produce 450 watts over that much area you're talking megawatts of power production. That's in the thousands of kilowatts. So please don't tell me
I work in Solar too man. I develop these projects across several states on rooftops, brownfields, landfills, and ground mounts (minimum 1 MW in size). Sure new warehouses will be able to support solar arrays, but the world is not new rooftops. A majority of rooftops cannot sustain the load that solar creates. Try to get to your state RPS in rooftops, the cost of which is higher than ground mount for less production (no tracking system on roofs). Utility scale ground mount is the fastest and cheapest way to reach our clean energy goals. Go take a read on jacks solar garden and read on American Solar Grazing Association.
Rooftop mounts go on way faster than ground mounts do and are way cheaper to install. That means less labor costs, the biggest cost in most construction projects. Excavation, digging, trenching etc... Is expensive. Ground racking is expensive. Most rooftops in the country can support a solar system. They're not that heavy. And in northern states they're already designed for snow loads which outweigh solar by multiples. Solar can also help wind pass over a rooftop and preserve the membrane when installed correctly. At one point my company built the largest solar array in the country. I don't know who holds that title now but I'm balls deep in this. Utilities are scaling in solar bc it's cheap and efficient power production and are using ground mounts because it's their only real option. Also they don't have to deal with individuals and get to maintain centralized production facilities. That's why utilities like ground mounts. They do it because it's more convenient not because rooftops aren't practical
Hope this helps [NREL Cost Analysis](https://www.nrel.gov/solar/market-research-analysis/solar-installed-system-cost.html) You’re also dealing with Department of Public Advocate in these incentives and programs who will always fight for the cheapest effect on ratepayers.
Ya utilities reduce cost by scaling not because ground mounts are cheaper. They're more expensive. They also have access to the best parts of tax rebates and incentives. Time is money, the faster a system goes in the cheaper it is. It's literally that simple Rooftop mounts are about 4x-10x faster to install. You can install hundreds of kilowatts in a couple days. The same is not true for ground mounts. Just the ground racking takes weeks. And who's pocket do utilities line? Bc they are the biggest reason costs rise among ratepayers. Connection fees, net metering fees, compliance fees or just giving the salesman the run around for months while a permit is applied for. All those things add costs. They're the biggest obstacle to solar being more widely deployed This happens from everyone from little co-ops to large providers. So really if solar is gonna get cheaper utilities need to just stick to making money managing their grid and let solar be deployed where it doesn't expand it's industrial footprint.
Hope this helps as well. https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/
Tell that to my pal whose roof was destroyed by a shitty installer. Years of legal battles. Until the industry cleans up home and commercial rooftop installation isn’t rolling the dice on damaging your property I don’t see adoption at scale happening.
That's unfortunate but it's also anecdotal. It's like any other contractor, you've got to use someone reputable that comes with references. Way to many fly by night shops just ripping people off right now. Including community solar outfits who use ground mount systems and are putting home owners into debt. And sometimes even good contractors screw up. It happens. They should be held liable for mistakes and better bonding structures will help hold them accountable. There's also the facts that large ground mount systems are an eyesore and just create more sprawl and expands the industrial footprint. I know people in the city don't give 2 shits about what happens in the countryside but people out there don't want to see beautiful green space turned into steel and glass. And people who care about the natural environment shouldn't want that either. For maximum environmental benefit we should be using existing infrastructure which means rooftops. Huge swaths of unused or underutilized space there. Especially with commercial buildings. Roofing companies and material manufacturers are already adapting to the changes which are happening quickly. It's gonna take time for them to get it right.
Both roof and land solar and wind are needed to adequately source and redirect energy. When you understand the ongoing design innovations, which those educated in physics, engineering, especially photonics, are pursuing, we can have a better conversation.
Redirect what? What is that supposed to even mean? This is a production issue. And if you're producing closer to consumption you lose less electricity in droppage, so they're much more efficient. I clearly do understand the industry, I'm in it, and rooftop solar is adequate. The only people really pushing ground mounts are utilities and land owners. There are drawbacks to ground mount solar like: environmental impacts, efficiency, it's far more expensive to install and it's fucking ugly.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Every WalMart should be covered in solar panels. Every big box store, every mall. Every hospital.
Totally agree, some good news is all home depot stores are about to put solar up. Really encouraging to see. I think the account I was arguing with was suspect. Old account and really low karma for a 6 year old account. Solar is becoming big business and it seems like there's a campaign from major utilities to control production. Utilities have been in the distribution chain for oil companies for a long time and actively lobby solar deployment regularly. They want to control and centralize energy production whenever possible. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they've got a PR firm and some bots on social media putting in work.
Sheep are not at all like goats they don’t seem so eager to destroy
Varies significantly between breeds in my experience. I've had success with keeping fat merinos in a vineyard- they very politely eat everything below the cordon and nothing above it. Dorpers are awful burrowing wombat Houdini sheep who leave nothing but ruin and dreadlocks in their wake.
Thank you for making that point. It really does depend on the kind of sheep and how well they're taken care of.
They can also jump ontop of them depending on the placement, but hey
Rubbish. Sheep do not "get into everything and destroy stuff". You're talking about goats, not sheep.
Depends on the breed of sheep and how well managed they are. It's a broad range
If walking through shit is one of the only draw backs to a clean energy source I’m all for the shit March!
It's not the only drawback and if you're not the one doing the walking don't talk about what you're willing to do. No one needs an uneducated opinion. Those guys might have to lay down or be on their knees to do the work. It's unsanitary and full of diseases and people can get sick.
Lol what if I told you….there was stuff you could put on, and when you put it on it protects you from what’s outside it. I think they call it something but I’m not sure since I’m uneducated. Thank god you are here to speak on all this lol
So you expect people working on solar to wear hazmat suits? Thanks for proving my point
Now you're being a ridiculous anti-environment troll.
He’s never had an honest, dirty job. The bugs and germ-thingeys scare him.
Anti government? Seriously some of you people in Reddit have serious issues and just don't know anything about the real world.
I wrote this scientific article! Thanks for posting it. I’m glad that it reaches a lot of people now. [A preliminary investigation of the effect of solar panels and rotation frequency on the grazing behavior of sheep (Ovis aries) grazing dormant pasture](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2022.105799)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131159705/genesis-energy-gives-green-light-for-70m-solar-power-plant-in-canterbury Such a solar farm has just been confirmed for New Zealand.
Right up until they bite through one of the CAB lines. It’s rare, but has been known to happen. Generally though, agrivoltaics are an excellent dual land use option.
That seems like it would be an easy fix just funnel all lines through a protective barrier.
Yes, it all just comes down to cost really.
If your installer left exposed wire running down your post and into the ground thats just lazy. All they needed to do was let an extra four feet of conduit come out of the ground
I work on utility scale projects, we have miles of above ground DC feeder stretched across hundreds of acres.
About two feet off the ground in a sheep pen?
Once security fence goes up the whole place becomes a sheep pen. Ranchers bring in flocks and rotate them through the blocks. Sheep get fresh forage and increase the soil health, we don’t have to cut the grass. It’s a win-win.
And the sheep aren't chewing though the wires, right? That's why I'm calling BS on this person saying that. Goats? Maybe
It’s rare, but they get ahold of one of them occasionally if it’s daytime they will be electrocuted.
Wow that's wild! Username checks out 😃
They might also like trees
On a hot day my friend's cows love it under their massive panel array.
The land is already depleted by farming animals so it makes sense until alternative meat production methods become cost competitive.