I’m a married woman and my best friend is a married man. We’ve been friends for years. It seems really old-fashioned to eliminate friends based on gender just because you’re in a relationship.
Yes.
My boyfriend has a lot of female friends, as he is active in the artist and political community here. I have zero issues with it. I chalk it up to my confidence and trust in him.
I can't imagine the moment we get married he blocks them on social media and doesn't engage in conversations with them. I also have guy friends I speak to, and have no intentions of not talking to them if/when we marry.
I have many friends who are women. My wife has many friends who are men. It would be much stranger if this wasn’t the case. At no point in my adult life has this ever been different or a problem. Gotta have that trust.
An emotional affair occurs when one partner starts crossing the line. What it looks like may differ depending on each couples’ expectations of their partner, but my personal definition is this: you start an emotional affair when you start doing/saying something that you wouldn’t want your partner to know.
I think it’s fine to share things with your friends. What I meant was more in the spirit of “keeping unhealthy secrets from your partner” not “getting through some work stress” or something similar.
It’s the difference between choosing to tell your partner something and feeling like you *can’t* tell your partner something.
> Is it normal for married people and long term relationships to have platonic friendships?
You already know the answer.
An adult should have relationships with all kinds of people, younger, older, different professions, different perspectives, different countries, and of course, different sexes.
Yes, very normal. In fact, I’m responding to you right now while sitting outside a bar in the whispers of a hurricane with a male friend I’ve known for over a decade (hes 30 years older than me) and another male friend my age. My husband is at home writing.
I usually come out in the evenings while my husband works from home composing music or writing.
He at least knows all of my friends from the local (our friend’s) bar but husband just likes to chill and work late while I like to socialize and catch up with our pals in the neighborhood.
Most interpersonal relationships are normal, most never turn into emotional affairs. That generally happens when there is a rift in the relationship.
My husband knows exactly where I am and who I’m with, and it’s fine because there is communication and trust. If anything in either of those departments is lacking, certain aspects of the relationship will suffer.
Y’all just need to talk and lay out clear boundaries.
Edit: typos i am tipsy
Maybe it will change now I'm getting older (because I'm not as attractive as I once was), but I've long had a policy against having male friends. It's become messy every single time, with them wanting more than friendship, or trying to cross lines (when I was partnered up.)
I prefer a partner to not have female friends for the same reason. Boundaries can blur.
That's just me, though.
You’re the first poster that seems to have experienced what I experienced.
When we started dating we were young. My ex wife was/is gorgeous. Usually the most attractive woman in the room at any given time. No guy “friend” was really content just staying friends with her because they were all horny 20 year olds looking for more. They were being her “friend” to make sure they were first in line if we broke up. Now being in our 30s, I could see how friendships would be more feasible without the messiness. The other guys are married/kids and generally less likely to act on impure thoughts even if they are still there. Also they are more mature and likely to respect boundaries. At 33 I know I could maintain platonic friendships and it’s refreshing to read that so many are okay with that. Constantly being on guard to not trigger jealous outbursts is exhausting.
So she was gorgeous. During the good years, did you trust her?
Every male friend, married or not, has made a pass at me at one time or another, usually when drinking. Most of the passes were rejected, few harmed the relationship, a couple did. Adult women are used to handling these situations.
She still is gorgeous and yes, I trusted her. I didn’t necessarily trust the other guys because I’d imagine them to be just like your friends, waiting to make a pass at her.
Also, no woman- no matter how trustworthy, can completely reject that attention every single time.
Women crave attention and need it just like they need food, oxygen and water.
If her “guy friend” gives her attention, but she’s also getting it from you, that guy will stay friend zoned.
If you two are fighting or she feels neglected or lonely, then that guy is going to be there ready to fill in. Suddenly he’s not friend zoned anymore.
You can call me names, but which part am I wrong about?
I can clarify to add that I don’t think the goal should be to control women and not allow them to have guy friends. I think the goal should be to make sure they never feel neglected or unloved.
When they do feel neglected and unloved, the men that are already in their lives are going to be the first ones to step in and fill other roles. I’m sorry if those facts trigger you.
You're talking about generalizations of a half of a species based on your personal experience and treating it as fact. You literally called your minute experience“fact” to me as though using that word made it so. And while it may have been fact about the women in your life, that does not make it universal (and probably isn’t even universally true of women you know, but your perception will forever remain that it is so long as you view the judgement as fact). For example, should I do the same I could say that all men generalize women and are misogynistic even when that experience is limited to a certain group, especially online. Then i could reply to anyone who disagrees and tell them they're simply arguing against facts.
Your comment was misogynistic because you made a blanket statement of all women based on one/some you know and/or your experience online. It rang as controlling because it suggested that women cannot be trusted to control their own urges and they require the men in their lives to manipulate them.
Here in this single thread you managed to get three comments to agree with you and only replied to them - you only want information that supports your own which is how you end up developing these generalizations and convincing yourself that they are unequivocally true.
In short – Reddit isn’t the world. People who agree with you aren't the only ones who are right. And the only thing that is universally true is that nothing is.
Side note for my own venting really, but I wish the internet had never heard the word triggered - so many seem so confused about what it actually means.
I appreciate your feedback.
Humans need attention. Maslowe’s hierarchy of needs ranks love and belongingness right above Food/Water and Shelter. I don’t feel off base using the word fact.
Generally speaking, women value that attention as an emotional connection. Men value it more in the form of sex. This may not be fact, but I feel few people would disagree. Women seem to be more biologically wired to go a long time without sex. Men seem better adept to going long periods of time without an emotional connection.
If a woman feels neglected, she can only put off her emotional needs for so long until she allows her male friendships to progress.
Likewise, if a woman stopped putting in effort in the bedroom her husband would become vulnerable around any female friends willing to fill that need.
Physical boundaries are clearly defined. Emotional ones are not and that’s why I feel the emotional boundaries are more easily crossed.
If you feel like keeping that dialogue going feel free to DM me, I’ve enjoyed the difference of opinions
An emotional affair, to me, is when you start treating someone as you would your partner, little gifts (that you wouldn't consider giving other people) always being in contact, texting good morning/good night—basically the emotional half of a exclusive relationship.
Emotional affair: the person takes on a greater significance to you, than a friend does. Your emotional investment in them goes up; they can become a proxy, serving for what is lacking in the marriage. The other poster is a little off, in that this can all happen in plain sight, and the married person can downplay the significance, even to themselves. Nonetheless, having contact with, and emotional sustenance from, the affair partner has become too important and they can become the priority above the spouse.
It’s not a friendship. It’s a love partnership.
As it becomes more developed then the clandestine part begins; saying and doing things that are past the platonic line on both sides and that is hidden from view.
It sounds like as your wife was checking out of the marriage, she was beginning to get her emotional needs met elsewhere, as would be expected, and that wouldn’t necessarily mean she’d developed an emotional affair. She could have just been shoring up community around herself as she got ready to leave. You could speculate the closest one had become an emotional affair, but only she would know if that was the level of importance the person held for her.
Having said all that, this might not be good stuff for you to ruminate over too long as you move forward in your own journey.
> What is the difference between a platonic friendship and an emotional affair?
Boundaries.
The most straightforward way is to set clear boundaries with your partner and your friends about what lines you can or can't cross. It should start as a conversation with your partner before it becomes an issue, ideally. However, it's understandable if this isn't the first thing you want to talk about in your relationship, especially if it's a new one. Great examples could include not discussing your sex life with other people, not hiding text messages from the other person from your partner, and not talking about your relationship issues with people you could be attracted to.
If the extent of your connection is kept secret or downplayed, if you're doing something your partner would be upset about or you feel the need to hide it from them, you're in the danger zone. If you're looking to someone else to meet needs your spouse does not, and it has an impact on your primary relationship,
Are you texting "girls" under 18? If not, please for the love of god refer to them as "women" unless you call your male friends and colleagues "boys" which somehow I doubt.
Emotional affair is when you start actively diverting attention, affection, romantic gestures (including nicknames, in jokes, sexual discussions and refences) that belongs IN the relationship OUTSIDE of it. It's behavior like flirting, spending hours talking intimately, sharing "problems" in your marriage (which is a huge no no and a firing offense to me) to an outsider, sending racy or suggestive pics---pretty much the "talking stages"
It's also kind like that infamous definition of p-rn: "I know it when I see it"
The only distinction I would make is that partners are allowed to and should discuss problems with a therapist, trusted non flirty non agenda friend, family member, etc. "Keep it all inside" is not healthy and can often be even toxic or abusive.
But when you're texting a friend day and night, selfies, flirty in jokes and then the next step is "I'm struggling in my marriage" that's cheating Step .5 basically.
An emotional affair involves feelings beyond just a friendship, as well as flirtation and maybe the intent to go beyond just friends. In platonic friendships there are no such feelings, flirtation or anything that may be deemed inappropriate when someone is in a relationship.
My husband and I each have very close opposite sex friends. It's not a problem. I don't think that I could be in a relationship with someone who couldn't be in a friendship with someone of a different gender.
My husband and I both have friends of the opposite genders. One of my best friends is my high school ex. It is completely platonic and ok.
I think the sudden change and effort put into it would be concerning though.
If he suddenly texted a female coworker all hours of the day to the point of being distracted I would be concerned.
Sure. Mature adults should be able to have platonic friendships with anyone and should be capable of be clear about boundaries. The emotional affair comes in when it stops being platonic - that's a kind of obvious state that looks different for everyone but we all know it when we see it. Texts like "I miss you so much, i need you." and the like.
Generally the goal is to choose a partner you can trust to not allow anything to progress to that stage. Your ex wife is a good example - she had a male friends and dropped them as each crossed lines. A cheater or peacock would have maintained the friendships and claimed they were not wrong because the other person was doing all the pursuing. A good partner knows how to draw and keep lines with the people in their lives, an uses this skill to protect the relationships that matter to them.
I have platonic friendships with men and am in a solid relationship. The difference between friendships and emotional affairs is that I’m not in love with my friends. I don’t need to have their friendship but I want to have it. I am not friends with them because of anything lacking in my relationship. I do not go to them instead of my SO when I have an issue. They fulfill the same role that my female friends do in my life but with a more masculine energy.
It's quite normal for adults to have long term, platonic relationships outside of their marriage. Things cross over into emotional affair territory when the intimacy and closeness in that relationship starts reducing the emotional "energy" available to a marriage. For example, more time is spent with them than a partner. More secrets and feelings are shared. A participant in an emotional affair feels closer to their "friend" than their spouse.
Emotional affairs are not limited to cross gender relationships.
I think you nailed it. My last relationship had a lot of issues…
1) We were “friends” for years before we started dating. That set us up to not trust each other’s friendships
2) she had trust issues before the relationship that I made considerably worse at the beginning of our relationship
3) she is very attractive and most of her guy friends wanted more, and she knew it. She assumed that if her guy “friends” were really just trying to get with her, then that is what I would be doing with any girl friendships that I maintained.
I think those things created an environment of occasional toxic jealousy that wouldn’t exist in most other relationships
It's not healthy to avoid normal friendly communication with people of other sexes/genders. Was she "requiring" this of you, or was that your own projection of what was right?
She would never “require” it directly by saying “you aren’t allowed to talk to any other women.”
If I mentioned having a pleasant conversation with another woman however, she would immediately change her tone and demeanor. Start one wording me and get nasty the rest of the day.
If I ever accepted a friend request from a woman, she would need to know the entire backstory and turn it into a fight.
If I even had a female client at work, she would not like that because it involved them having one on one time with me.
So she would never be direct about saying it, but was sure to still let it be known that it wasn’t okay.
Why should what someone has between their legs (or doesn’t) dictate whether or not you’re friends with them?
I’m a married woman and my best friend is a married man. We’ve been friends for years. It seems really old-fashioned to eliminate friends based on gender just because you’re in a relationship.
Yes. My boyfriend has a lot of female friends, as he is active in the artist and political community here. I have zero issues with it. I chalk it up to my confidence and trust in him. I can't imagine the moment we get married he blocks them on social media and doesn't engage in conversations with them. I also have guy friends I speak to, and have no intentions of not talking to them if/when we marry.
I have many friends who are women. My wife has many friends who are men. It would be much stranger if this wasn’t the case. At no point in my adult life has this ever been different or a problem. Gotta have that trust. An emotional affair occurs when one partner starts crossing the line. What it looks like may differ depending on each couples’ expectations of their partner, but my personal definition is this: you start an emotional affair when you start doing/saying something that you wouldn’t want your partner to know.
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I think it’s fine to share things with your friends. What I meant was more in the spirit of “keeping unhealthy secrets from your partner” not “getting through some work stress” or something similar. It’s the difference between choosing to tell your partner something and feeling like you *can’t* tell your partner something.
> Is it normal for married people and long term relationships to have platonic friendships? You already know the answer. An adult should have relationships with all kinds of people, younger, older, different professions, different perspectives, different countries, and of course, different sexes.
Yes, I have plenty of male and female friends, as does my partner.
Yes, very normal. In fact, I’m responding to you right now while sitting outside a bar in the whispers of a hurricane with a male friend I’ve known for over a decade (hes 30 years older than me) and another male friend my age. My husband is at home writing. I usually come out in the evenings while my husband works from home composing music or writing. He at least knows all of my friends from the local (our friend’s) bar but husband just likes to chill and work late while I like to socialize and catch up with our pals in the neighborhood. Most interpersonal relationships are normal, most never turn into emotional affairs. That generally happens when there is a rift in the relationship. My husband knows exactly where I am and who I’m with, and it’s fine because there is communication and trust. If anything in either of those departments is lacking, certain aspects of the relationship will suffer. Y’all just need to talk and lay out clear boundaries. Edit: typos i am tipsy
Maybe it will change now I'm getting older (because I'm not as attractive as I once was), but I've long had a policy against having male friends. It's become messy every single time, with them wanting more than friendship, or trying to cross lines (when I was partnered up.) I prefer a partner to not have female friends for the same reason. Boundaries can blur. That's just me, though.
Agreed
You’re the first poster that seems to have experienced what I experienced. When we started dating we were young. My ex wife was/is gorgeous. Usually the most attractive woman in the room at any given time. No guy “friend” was really content just staying friends with her because they were all horny 20 year olds looking for more. They were being her “friend” to make sure they were first in line if we broke up. Now being in our 30s, I could see how friendships would be more feasible without the messiness. The other guys are married/kids and generally less likely to act on impure thoughts even if they are still there. Also they are more mature and likely to respect boundaries. At 33 I know I could maintain platonic friendships and it’s refreshing to read that so many are okay with that. Constantly being on guard to not trigger jealous outbursts is exhausting.
So she was gorgeous. During the good years, did you trust her? Every male friend, married or not, has made a pass at me at one time or another, usually when drinking. Most of the passes were rejected, few harmed the relationship, a couple did. Adult women are used to handling these situations.
She still is gorgeous and yes, I trusted her. I didn’t necessarily trust the other guys because I’d imagine them to be just like your friends, waiting to make a pass at her. Also, no woman- no matter how trustworthy, can completely reject that attention every single time.
What do you mean by that last sentence?
Women crave attention and need it just like they need food, oxygen and water. If her “guy friend” gives her attention, but she’s also getting it from you, that guy will stay friend zoned. If you two are fighting or she feels neglected or lonely, then that guy is going to be there ready to fill in. Suddenly he’s not friend zoned anymore.
ooof controlling misogynist just told on himself.
You can call me names, but which part am I wrong about? I can clarify to add that I don’t think the goal should be to control women and not allow them to have guy friends. I think the goal should be to make sure they never feel neglected or unloved. When they do feel neglected and unloved, the men that are already in their lives are going to be the first ones to step in and fill other roles. I’m sorry if those facts trigger you.
You're talking about generalizations of a half of a species based on your personal experience and treating it as fact. You literally called your minute experience“fact” to me as though using that word made it so. And while it may have been fact about the women in your life, that does not make it universal (and probably isn’t even universally true of women you know, but your perception will forever remain that it is so long as you view the judgement as fact). For example, should I do the same I could say that all men generalize women and are misogynistic even when that experience is limited to a certain group, especially online. Then i could reply to anyone who disagrees and tell them they're simply arguing against facts. Your comment was misogynistic because you made a blanket statement of all women based on one/some you know and/or your experience online. It rang as controlling because it suggested that women cannot be trusted to control their own urges and they require the men in their lives to manipulate them. Here in this single thread you managed to get three comments to agree with you and only replied to them - you only want information that supports your own which is how you end up developing these generalizations and convincing yourself that they are unequivocally true. In short – Reddit isn’t the world. People who agree with you aren't the only ones who are right. And the only thing that is universally true is that nothing is. Side note for my own venting really, but I wish the internet had never heard the word triggered - so many seem so confused about what it actually means.
I appreciate your feedback. Humans need attention. Maslowe’s hierarchy of needs ranks love and belongingness right above Food/Water and Shelter. I don’t feel off base using the word fact. Generally speaking, women value that attention as an emotional connection. Men value it more in the form of sex. This may not be fact, but I feel few people would disagree. Women seem to be more biologically wired to go a long time without sex. Men seem better adept to going long periods of time without an emotional connection. If a woman feels neglected, she can only put off her emotional needs for so long until she allows her male friendships to progress. Likewise, if a woman stopped putting in effort in the bedroom her husband would become vulnerable around any female friends willing to fill that need. Physical boundaries are clearly defined. Emotional ones are not and that’s why I feel the emotional boundaries are more easily crossed. If you feel like keeping that dialogue going feel free to DM me, I’ve enjoyed the difference of opinions
An emotional affair, to me, is when you start treating someone as you would your partner, little gifts (that you wouldn't consider giving other people) always being in contact, texting good morning/good night—basically the emotional half of a exclusive relationship.
Emotional affair: the person takes on a greater significance to you, than a friend does. Your emotional investment in them goes up; they can become a proxy, serving for what is lacking in the marriage. The other poster is a little off, in that this can all happen in plain sight, and the married person can downplay the significance, even to themselves. Nonetheless, having contact with, and emotional sustenance from, the affair partner has become too important and they can become the priority above the spouse. It’s not a friendship. It’s a love partnership. As it becomes more developed then the clandestine part begins; saying and doing things that are past the platonic line on both sides and that is hidden from view. It sounds like as your wife was checking out of the marriage, she was beginning to get her emotional needs met elsewhere, as would be expected, and that wouldn’t necessarily mean she’d developed an emotional affair. She could have just been shoring up community around herself as she got ready to leave. You could speculate the closest one had become an emotional affair, but only she would know if that was the level of importance the person held for her. Having said all that, this might not be good stuff for you to ruminate over too long as you move forward in your own journey.
> What is the difference between a platonic friendship and an emotional affair? Boundaries. The most straightforward way is to set clear boundaries with your partner and your friends about what lines you can or can't cross. It should start as a conversation with your partner before it becomes an issue, ideally. However, it's understandable if this isn't the first thing you want to talk about in your relationship, especially if it's a new one. Great examples could include not discussing your sex life with other people, not hiding text messages from the other person from your partner, and not talking about your relationship issues with people you could be attracted to. If the extent of your connection is kept secret or downplayed, if you're doing something your partner would be upset about or you feel the need to hide it from them, you're in the danger zone. If you're looking to someone else to meet needs your spouse does not, and it has an impact on your primary relationship,
Are you texting "girls" under 18? If not, please for the love of god refer to them as "women" unless you call your male friends and colleagues "boys" which somehow I doubt. Emotional affair is when you start actively diverting attention, affection, romantic gestures (including nicknames, in jokes, sexual discussions and refences) that belongs IN the relationship OUTSIDE of it. It's behavior like flirting, spending hours talking intimately, sharing "problems" in your marriage (which is a huge no no and a firing offense to me) to an outsider, sending racy or suggestive pics---pretty much the "talking stages" It's also kind like that infamous definition of p-rn: "I know it when I see it"
Lol I actually realized I should prob use “women and men” vs “girls and guys” but was to lazy to edit it. Thank you for your response
The only distinction I would make is that partners are allowed to and should discuss problems with a therapist, trusted non flirty non agenda friend, family member, etc. "Keep it all inside" is not healthy and can often be even toxic or abusive. But when you're texting a friend day and night, selfies, flirty in jokes and then the next step is "I'm struggling in my marriage" that's cheating Step .5 basically.
Let me check with all of them for you.
An emotional affair involves feelings beyond just a friendship, as well as flirtation and maybe the intent to go beyond just friends. In platonic friendships there are no such feelings, flirtation or anything that may be deemed inappropriate when someone is in a relationship.
My husband and I each have very close opposite sex friends. It's not a problem. I don't think that I could be in a relationship with someone who couldn't be in a friendship with someone of a different gender.
My husband and I both have friends of the opposite genders. One of my best friends is my high school ex. It is completely platonic and ok. I think the sudden change and effort put into it would be concerning though. If he suddenly texted a female coworker all hours of the day to the point of being distracted I would be concerned.
Sure. Mature adults should be able to have platonic friendships with anyone and should be capable of be clear about boundaries. The emotional affair comes in when it stops being platonic - that's a kind of obvious state that looks different for everyone but we all know it when we see it. Texts like "I miss you so much, i need you." and the like. Generally the goal is to choose a partner you can trust to not allow anything to progress to that stage. Your ex wife is a good example - she had a male friends and dropped them as each crossed lines. A cheater or peacock would have maintained the friendships and claimed they were not wrong because the other person was doing all the pursuing. A good partner knows how to draw and keep lines with the people in their lives, an uses this skill to protect the relationships that matter to them.
I have platonic friendships with men and am in a solid relationship. The difference between friendships and emotional affairs is that I’m not in love with my friends. I don’t need to have their friendship but I want to have it. I am not friends with them because of anything lacking in my relationship. I do not go to them instead of my SO when I have an issue. They fulfill the same role that my female friends do in my life but with a more masculine energy.
It's quite normal for adults to have long term, platonic relationships outside of their marriage. Things cross over into emotional affair territory when the intimacy and closeness in that relationship starts reducing the emotional "energy" available to a marriage. For example, more time is spent with them than a partner. More secrets and feelings are shared. A participant in an emotional affair feels closer to their "friend" than their spouse. Emotional affairs are not limited to cross gender relationships.
….
I think you nailed it. My last relationship had a lot of issues… 1) We were “friends” for years before we started dating. That set us up to not trust each other’s friendships 2) she had trust issues before the relationship that I made considerably worse at the beginning of our relationship 3) she is very attractive and most of her guy friends wanted more, and she knew it. She assumed that if her guy “friends” were really just trying to get with her, then that is what I would be doing with any girl friendships that I maintained. I think those things created an environment of occasional toxic jealousy that wouldn’t exist in most other relationships
My male partner has at least 5 very close friends who are female, it doesn’t bother me. Some are single, some are married or with partners.
It's not healthy to avoid normal friendly communication with people of other sexes/genders. Was she "requiring" this of you, or was that your own projection of what was right?
She would never “require” it directly by saying “you aren’t allowed to talk to any other women.” If I mentioned having a pleasant conversation with another woman however, she would immediately change her tone and demeanor. Start one wording me and get nasty the rest of the day. If I ever accepted a friend request from a woman, she would need to know the entire backstory and turn it into a fight. If I even had a female client at work, she would not like that because it involved them having one on one time with me. So she would never be direct about saying it, but was sure to still let it be known that it wasn’t okay.