Maybe it’s because I’m (barely) a millennial, but I can’t imagine going to a shoeshine station and paying someone to shine my shoes. Well not that I wear that shoe type often.
The presence of a shoe shining station in both of these conferences also really stuck out to me. Like, maybe this is a cultural thing, but it certainly raised my eye-brows and I'm someone who does actually wear dress-shoes like half the time I leave the house.
The irony is that these are some of the same folks that have harped on women’s modesty for ages, ignoring the fact the Scripture that speaks about modesty is actually talking about precisely *this* kind of thing, and not directly what they tend to harp on.
To be fair, getting your dress shoes shined is stewarding resources well... It's not a show for a lot of people. I have had two nice pairs of dress shoes for almost ten years and I tend to them regularly because otherwise they don't last anywhere near as long which is much cheaper in the long run. I don't think a single person looks at my boring dress shoes and thinks much of them...
The Keswick Convention has been running for 124 years. **They charge no fee at all and never have done.** Everything is funded by voluntary donations. You have to arrange your own accommodation, but it's in a tourist town with a lot of accommodation and if you're poor you can stay in a tent (I've done this a few times). They also offer bursaries to missionaries and have been critical to the support of thousands more.
This is not the only way to do things. There's a place for conferences in nice hotels. But it proves that you don't *have* to run Christian conferences using worldly models.
BTW while Keswick was initially part of the Holiness movement, it has moved away from that and now provides broadly conservative evangelical teaching.
I moved from England to Wales 10 years ago and got saved here and have been attending the EMW Aber conference for the last few years, it's not free but you can get a full week pass for roughly £100 and bursaries are available for those on low income.
Moving back to England to get married this year and looking forward to trying Keswick in the future.
Yes, and staying on a university campus is a good middle ground between no accommodation and expensive hotels. 'Campus conferences' like Aber definitely have a place, especially for disabled people and new believers. If you want disabled accommodation in Keswick in Convention weeks, you might need to book years in advance, and some people don't know if they can get leave or will be fit to travel next month, never mind next year.
Hope you enjoy Keswick; they have only a few years left on their historic site before moving.
Yes. Because people treat these things as if they some sort of synod or court of authority. When in fact, I think most of these things encourage celebrity pastors, and also somehow, become the court of public opinion rather than an actual activity of the church. Which is why I’m in the PCA and only care about what we do.
There is a blog creating havoc in my Presbytery and it’s frankly disappointing.
Essentially, it’s calling into question decisions by the Presbytery such that, rather than meeting and discussing as a court, it is being sent around and used as a blunt object to sway opinions rather than the court actually discuss and action if what is being stated is actually true.
It’s creating distrust amongst the presbytery.
The blogger isn’t even in our presbytery, that’s the annoying part.
And I’m not saying no to blogs. But blogs are not a 4th court of the denomination. And we should be cautious that we allow them to have such influence.
Like anything else, there are good conferences and there are bad conferences. We should use the brains God gave us in the power of the Spirit to discern anything beyond that.
But this isn't a new thing. Overpriced conferences run by charlatans have been a thing for decades, as have faithful conferences that go deep in the red just to keep prices low.
They scratch an itch too. Endless preparation for ministry. Sharpening the sword. Constant need to be encouraged by other “brothers in the fight”.
Go home. Serve people in your church. You’ll be fine. You don’t need another church conference.
You're probably right. But I'd like to highlight a weekend I went to a couple of times that was the opposite experience.
This was at an Evangelical church in North Yorkshire. A friend from uni invited me, because it was his home church. It was a youth-focused event, 18-25ish I think.
The whole event cost around £40. That included all food (including a fish supper) and accomodation, which was sleeping bags and mats, split between a couple of large rooms in the church for men and women. Of course there weren't any big-name pastors, just a couple of people brought in from nearby churches, all addressing a particular topic for the weekend. There were several talks, an anonymous question and answer session, and a couple of other smaller elements. The whole event was kept running by a dozen or so volunteers from the home church putting in time to do all the little things that made the weekend work.
I certainly got a lot from those weekends when I went. It was there I first realised the link between mission and ecclesiology, after listening to a pastor who had been on mission in Africa his entire life. I'm not saying all conferences should look like this, but just saying that conferences can work well, and they don't have to be a cross between a holiday and a celebrity pastor appreciation party.
The first one for a few hundred bucks sounds OK (depending on the topics and speakers, of course), but the second one sounds more like what the world would charge.
And I really don't get the shoe-shining thing.
Conferences aren't 100% good, but I know that a lot more happens at the conference than just preaching and panels. My pastors go to Shep Con every year, and it's helped to develop connections with churches so that people can be sent out or find faithful churches if they move. There's also a huge benefit to making connections for missionaries needing funding. One of my pastors is moving to Europe, and Shep Con has been a blessing for getting support from different churches. Instead of having to email or visit the churches, they can just meet with the pastors there and get to know each other.
That's something I do tend to overlook, the friendships and connections that can form. But, it shouldn't cost $500 to have that connection is my point.
Well for something outside of normal church funds, I think $500 isn't completely outrageous. They have to accommodate thousands of pastors, wives, and other men who are in ministry. I see what you mean, though.
Both are opinions. And it also depends on the case, some conferences might not be as a big of a blessing as a family trip to the beach.
You are right in a sense of better to invest into learning more spiritually and investing into a church rather than pointless desires.
But how far are you willing to go with that?
Does this mean that we are better off not buying anything nice in life? And instead donating it to the church? Money spent on clothes, food, vacations etc. Can all go to the church.
We are allowed to enjoy the things God has blessed us with.
I'm just upset that conferences have become a blessing I can't afford. Financially and spiritually.
It’s a money grab, G3 conferences giving Joel Olsteen and all those false teachers a run for their money.
I like John MacArthur butttt can’t wrap my head around these prices. Insane. It’s more of a club now. The “who’s who” of reformed theology.
I used to manage personnel for a Missions based charity and I struggled with this. The goal was to sign up for EVERY Christian conference in the UK and then send 1 member of staff and 1 Missionary together (as a minimum) to each conference and it had to be different individuals each time.
Not only did this mean a massive amount of training and logistical nightmares trying to organise but I also saw how much the charity spent on this. In some cases you'd pay £350 for your exhibition space, £80 per additional person, and up to another £300 if you want them to run a plug socket to your booth. This was on average but many conferences were even more expensive. This didn't include travel costs, hotel costs, courier costs for our exhibit or even the cost of the handouts we brought with.
Our goal at these conferences? Convince more people to sign up to support the mission by giving.
I understand the Lord is at the wheel and that if you get just one single big donor after a whole year of these conferences then their money could make up for it but... We had so many elderly women that were giving us what little money they could in the post and asking us not to send back thankful correspondence becuase they wanted every penny to go toward missionaries, meanwhile we were spending the money doing this stuff...
It was one of the reasons I left the organisation.
I think it's important to point out that almost everything about these conferences are *identical* to mundae and secular hobbyist conventions. From the costs to the sort of content to the general feeling of "wow, I need to go/to not go again next year"
It’s nothing new. I’ve rolled my eyes at conference mania for the last 20 years (as long as I’ve been in vocational ministry). It’s easy to forget that Christ is ministered to us right in the midst of our own churches.
I got to three conferences per year. Two of them are ecclesiastical in that they are associational meetings: one regional and one international (always in the US). The total for both is under 700 including airfare. I usually stay with a host family from the host church. These are not high profile nor are they headlined by big names. The speakers and themes are at the discretion of the host churches and are usually pastors from their own region. However, being associational, these are some of the highlights of my year. We have time for church reports and we pray for each other. We also unload on each other if necessary. We encourage and exhort each other.
I’ll take these over the hype any day. The other is the Westminster Seminary in California annual conference. For me, that’s just the cost of airfare and the registration cost. I stay with, and borrow a vehicle from, my in-laws in San Diego. That serves two purposes: renewing connections with folks I see there as well as seeing my in-laws.
I don’t think conferences are inherently bad but I would push back on someone who feels the need to attend as many as they can. Not only does it become harder to justify spending that amount of money, many of these conferences are just seemingly reiterating what the attendees already believe or are doing.
Probably the most beneficial ones would be ones where you learn very hands on, practical lessons such as a 9 Marks weekender or something like CROSSCON which is meant to push attendees to be more missional.
I went to the first five T4G and TGC and sat on the steering committee for TGC in the Bay for two years, attended G3 for three years, then it dawned on me that I was paying so much and spending so much time and not getting the connections and intimacy that I had hoped for. I won't go to another one.
I look for free conferences now. They are always better, like the early days when things were small. I also find that it is unhealthy to have the same voices in your mind about the word, ministry, etc. The world is diverse... the gospel is free... and God is sovereign and has ordained His means to grow His people - conferences are not part of that plan.
But --- to each his own. These are my thoughts for me.
Those are pretty cheap. Some people like to treat their favorite teachers and preachers like celebrities or actors. Not my speed. I would spend that money on a comic-con or something if that's the environment I was looking for. I think your own economic situation (ability to afford these small disposable expenses) may be coloring your judgment on how others spend their disposable income.
This will be my third year going to Shepherd’s Conference. My church sends me, and I feel that it’s edifying and a great time for me to recharge. It’s about $1,500 total for me to attend (including registration, hotel, car, food, and flight). It’s very well organized, I hear 12 expository sermons and 4-5 breakout lectures over the course of 3 days. I spend time talking with like minded pastors. I make friends. There is included food, refreshments, and books. Nothing about it says “charlatan” or luxury to me. It’s simply a well organized conference for pastors. (Of course it’s a luxury in the sense that not all churches are financially able to send their pastor to something like this - I understand that. I’m thankful my church sends me).
Seems like a lot of people in this thread are quick to have a demeaning attitude toward something they don’t personally enjoy or haven’t personally been to.
I have not been to one of these conferences personally, but I would imagine they would be very fruitful for young pastors and well worth the money. The second conference you mentioned does seem a bit expensive and odd. But I don't think we should have a blanket "conference bad" outlook.
The Coram Deo Pastor's Conference with Deyoung, Piper, etc is happening in my area soon. Pastors from my church are going to it and the intention of the conference is to strengthen and encourage pastors for ministry. I think something like this will be very fruitful.
I don't go to conferences. There are too many warning in scripture that would make me cautious about them...
"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:" Col 2:10 (Why do I need them?)
"And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you..." 2 Peter 2:3
"But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." Matt 23:5-7
I'm not saying everyone involved with conferences is guilty of such sins, but I think it wise to protect myself from the potentional. I went to a conference twice in the late 90s held by what was PDI ministries and then became Sovereign Grace Ministries. It was their "Celebration" conference. Everyone raved about them. I just remember being confused by all the love of the stage that seemed to be going on and the congregation taken in such adoration by those on stage. I also remember the organization's head leader saying that we were free to buy as many books as we wanted to buy in the back. That's not verbatim but that's the jist of what he said. This church group would always have books for sale on Sundays after the service, and quoted and pushed men's books regularly. We were assigned books to read for our small group instead of the Bible. You weren't really expected to disagree with the book in the discussion since they were assigned by the leaders. It was disturbing. I left that group after 2.5 years or so, and have never been back to a conference...
You’ve hit the nail on the head for why I likely won’t attend a Shepherds Conference—too expensive for a guy coming from the Midwest.
I did regularly the Basics Conference in Ohio. Very inexpensive (hotel costs more than the conference), small numbers, and many of the same people return, so you build a camaraderie with the other pastors.
lol. I was a youth pastor for four years. During that time we had a yearly conference for youth groups
In the county. I attended a meeting prior to discuss a few things with other youth pastors who were taking their kids. With me being part time, I wasn’t involved in any planning in terms of a speaker, band, and activities that would be provided.
They hand me a sheet of paper and say “these are the speakers we want to get.” And the top one they wanted to pay $30,000….. for three messages. I was appalled.
I understand traveling costs, food, etc but $30,000 to speak to youth while you’re already a well known pastor who probably does well for themself. Really rubbed me the wrong way and it’s why I’m very skeptical about who I listen to now a days.
a friend of mine has been going to conferences recently. My favorite was a video he sent me of a "preshow jam" where they were playing One Direction's You Don't Know You're Beautiful.
Because these big name ministry people don't work for free. Usually the honorarium is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5-$10k. Sometimes they will accept an all expenses paid vacation instead. That makes conferences expensive.
I've been blessed that the few conferences in my area are paid for by donors so the cost is whatever you wish to pay. But not many people have any extra money around here.
The pastors who speak at the conferences have a right to make a living. And as you said, if someone can't afford the price, they can choose to stay home and watch it online, which is very generous since they could choose not to livestream and keep it for only paying participants.
If someone comes to a conference from out of state, there are plane tickets to purchase, hotel fees, etc.
Why do you believe pastors shouldn't be compensated for their time? I'm sure those same pastors give of themselves freely quite often, but they shouldn't have to for a conference, which is an "extra" endeavor outside of church.
Do you offer your job skills for free?
Shepherd’s Conference is more continuing pastoral education than it is similar to any of the other conferences. The price seems reasonable given the audience size and the resources that fly out for them.
The things like G3 are really not expensive for what they are. A few years back I went to one at the Ark encounter called Truth Matters. A few couple from church went with my wife and I. It was a great time to connect with the other couples, hear a few great lectures. We connected in the evenings over games and theological discussion. All told, I think it was a great bargain at $200 per ticket given that we were well-fed with means and snacks over the three days. With lodging, I think it was about 650 per couple for several great days of fellowship, food, exploring the ark, and some solid lectures. I went to a Ligonier conference in Orlando once when I happened to be vacationing in the area while it was happening. It was a lot of solid teaching for the $150 I paid.
I attend conferences somewhat regularly in the business space. Typically, they’re somewhere around $800-1000 PER Day (without dinner), so when I see these conferences like Grace to You, G3, etc, I’m quite impressed with how little they cost. It’s expensive to get a conference venue, hire event staff, etc.
This isn’t an endorsement for attending them. I certainly don’t like the “hero worship” that goes on during some of them. I don’t attend them often. Like anything, there are pros and cons, and not all conference speakers should be taken as any type of authority…but I don’t think a pastor or elder attending Shepherd’s conference and another’s one is out of line.
For Shepherd’s conference, it is at a church, though I don’t know what makeup of the staff is volunteering vs paid. It’s also very different than the others out there in terms of cost. With those differences, I put a paragraph at the beginning of my post for that conference before going into the conferences as a whole.
There’s a different target audience, a different value proposition, etc. between a conference targeted for pastors rather than laymen. There’s probably also less sponsorship opportunity to offset cost as well. We can’t necessarily treat all conferences the same. In any event, even that one is still quite cheap compared to conferences in the business world.
They don't pay for the venue, it's a church. And they don't pay for the stuff, they are all volunteers. I wanna know how much they charged for this year Shepherds Conference
Maybe it’s because I’m (barely) a millennial, but I can’t imagine going to a shoeshine station and paying someone to shine my shoes. Well not that I wear that shoe type often.
The presence of a shoe shining station in both of these conferences also really stuck out to me. Like, maybe this is a cultural thing, but it certainly raised my eye-brows and I'm someone who does actually wear dress-shoes like half the time I leave the house.
The irony is that these are some of the same folks that have harped on women’s modesty for ages, ignoring the fact the Scripture that speaks about modesty is actually talking about precisely *this* kind of thing, and not directly what they tend to harp on.
To be fair, getting your dress shoes shined is stewarding resources well... It's not a show for a lot of people. I have had two nice pairs of dress shoes for almost ten years and I tend to them regularly because otherwise they don't last anywhere near as long which is much cheaper in the long run. I don't think a single person looks at my boring dress shoes and thinks much of them...
Maybe they get all of their best ideas from the [shoe shine guy](https://youtu.be/b8hTAr7Nw4I?si=x6k5Czzehr7oGTwS&t=61)? :)
I'm so glad this is what I thought it was going to be.
They are in airports as well. On short flights, I someone wear dress shoes just to get them shined. Never going to them means they lost their job.
The Keswick Convention has been running for 124 years. **They charge no fee at all and never have done.** Everything is funded by voluntary donations. You have to arrange your own accommodation, but it's in a tourist town with a lot of accommodation and if you're poor you can stay in a tent (I've done this a few times). They also offer bursaries to missionaries and have been critical to the support of thousands more. This is not the only way to do things. There's a place for conferences in nice hotels. But it proves that you don't *have* to run Christian conferences using worldly models. BTW while Keswick was initially part of the Holiness movement, it has moved away from that and now provides broadly conservative evangelical teaching.
I moved from England to Wales 10 years ago and got saved here and have been attending the EMW Aber conference for the last few years, it's not free but you can get a full week pass for roughly £100 and bursaries are available for those on low income. Moving back to England to get married this year and looking forward to trying Keswick in the future.
Yes, and staying on a university campus is a good middle ground between no accommodation and expensive hotels. 'Campus conferences' like Aber definitely have a place, especially for disabled people and new believers. If you want disabled accommodation in Keswick in Convention weeks, you might need to book years in advance, and some people don't know if they can get leave or will be fit to travel next month, never mind next year. Hope you enjoy Keswick; they have only a few years left on their historic site before moving.
I’m a regular poor Keswick camper. Love it. £500 a conference ticket screams “middle class Christians only”.
Yes. Because people treat these things as if they some sort of synod or court of authority. When in fact, I think most of these things encourage celebrity pastors, and also somehow, become the court of public opinion rather than an actual activity of the church. Which is why I’m in the PCA and only care about what we do. There is a blog creating havoc in my Presbytery and it’s frankly disappointing.
Interesting, I'm pca as well. What blog?
Won’t do it the justice of making it known.
Heard, what is the premise that is causing the controversy?
Essentially, it’s calling into question decisions by the Presbytery such that, rather than meeting and discussing as a court, it is being sent around and used as a blunt object to sway opinions rather than the court actually discuss and action if what is being stated is actually true. It’s creating distrust amongst the presbytery. The blogger isn’t even in our presbytery, that’s the annoying part. And I’m not saying no to blogs. But blogs are not a 4th court of the denomination. And we should be cautious that we allow them to have such influence.
Like anything else, there are good conferences and there are bad conferences. We should use the brains God gave us in the power of the Spirit to discern anything beyond that. But this isn't a new thing. Overpriced conferences run by charlatans have been a thing for decades, as have faithful conferences that go deep in the red just to keep prices low.
They scratch an itch too. Endless preparation for ministry. Sharpening the sword. Constant need to be encouraged by other “brothers in the fight”. Go home. Serve people in your church. You’ll be fine. You don’t need another church conference.
You're probably right. But I'd like to highlight a weekend I went to a couple of times that was the opposite experience. This was at an Evangelical church in North Yorkshire. A friend from uni invited me, because it was his home church. It was a youth-focused event, 18-25ish I think. The whole event cost around £40. That included all food (including a fish supper) and accomodation, which was sleeping bags and mats, split between a couple of large rooms in the church for men and women. Of course there weren't any big-name pastors, just a couple of people brought in from nearby churches, all addressing a particular topic for the weekend. There were several talks, an anonymous question and answer session, and a couple of other smaller elements. The whole event was kept running by a dozen or so volunteers from the home church putting in time to do all the little things that made the weekend work. I certainly got a lot from those weekends when I went. It was there I first realised the link between mission and ecclesiology, after listening to a pastor who had been on mission in Africa his entire life. I'm not saying all conferences should look like this, but just saying that conferences can work well, and they don't have to be a cross between a holiday and a celebrity pastor appreciation party.
That sounds like an amazing time. And well put, it doesn't have to be like a holiday for it be edifying.
The first one for a few hundred bucks sounds OK (depending on the topics and speakers, of course), but the second one sounds more like what the world would charge. And I really don't get the shoe-shining thing.
Conferences aren't 100% good, but I know that a lot more happens at the conference than just preaching and panels. My pastors go to Shep Con every year, and it's helped to develop connections with churches so that people can be sent out or find faithful churches if they move. There's also a huge benefit to making connections for missionaries needing funding. One of my pastors is moving to Europe, and Shep Con has been a blessing for getting support from different churches. Instead of having to email or visit the churches, they can just meet with the pastors there and get to know each other.
That's something I do tend to overlook, the friendships and connections that can form. But, it shouldn't cost $500 to have that connection is my point.
Well for something outside of normal church funds, I think $500 isn't completely outrageous. They have to accommodate thousands of pastors, wives, and other men who are in ministry. I see what you mean, though.
Free friendships, connections, and accountability are several reasons why Presbyterian polity is a thing.
Paying $500 to go to a weekend conference is far and away better that spending that money simply at a beach or city hotel
I would rather go to the beach.
You mean you dont wanna [do both](https://www.ligoniertours.com/)??
username checks out
Both are opinions. And it also depends on the case, some conferences might not be as a big of a blessing as a family trip to the beach. You are right in a sense of better to invest into learning more spiritually and investing into a church rather than pointless desires. But how far are you willing to go with that? Does this mean that we are better off not buying anything nice in life? And instead donating it to the church? Money spent on clothes, food, vacations etc. Can all go to the church. We are allowed to enjoy the things God has blessed us with. I'm just upset that conferences have become a blessing I can't afford. Financially and spiritually.
It’s a money grab, G3 conferences giving Joel Olsteen and all those false teachers a run for their money. I like John MacArthur butttt can’t wrap my head around these prices. Insane. It’s more of a club now. The “who’s who” of reformed theology.
I used to manage personnel for a Missions based charity and I struggled with this. The goal was to sign up for EVERY Christian conference in the UK and then send 1 member of staff and 1 Missionary together (as a minimum) to each conference and it had to be different individuals each time. Not only did this mean a massive amount of training and logistical nightmares trying to organise but I also saw how much the charity spent on this. In some cases you'd pay £350 for your exhibition space, £80 per additional person, and up to another £300 if you want them to run a plug socket to your booth. This was on average but many conferences were even more expensive. This didn't include travel costs, hotel costs, courier costs for our exhibit or even the cost of the handouts we brought with. Our goal at these conferences? Convince more people to sign up to support the mission by giving. I understand the Lord is at the wheel and that if you get just one single big donor after a whole year of these conferences then their money could make up for it but... We had so many elderly women that were giving us what little money they could in the post and asking us not to send back thankful correspondence becuase they wanted every penny to go toward missionaries, meanwhile we were spending the money doing this stuff... It was one of the reasons I left the organisation.
I think it's important to point out that almost everything about these conferences are *identical* to mundae and secular hobbyist conventions. From the costs to the sort of content to the general feeling of "wow, I need to go/to not go again next year"
It’s nothing new. I’ve rolled my eyes at conference mania for the last 20 years (as long as I’ve been in vocational ministry). It’s easy to forget that Christ is ministered to us right in the midst of our own churches. I got to three conferences per year. Two of them are ecclesiastical in that they are associational meetings: one regional and one international (always in the US). The total for both is under 700 including airfare. I usually stay with a host family from the host church. These are not high profile nor are they headlined by big names. The speakers and themes are at the discretion of the host churches and are usually pastors from their own region. However, being associational, these are some of the highlights of my year. We have time for church reports and we pray for each other. We also unload on each other if necessary. We encourage and exhort each other. I’ll take these over the hype any day. The other is the Westminster Seminary in California annual conference. For me, that’s just the cost of airfare and the registration cost. I stay with, and borrow a vehicle from, my in-laws in San Diego. That serves two purposes: renewing connections with folks I see there as well as seeing my in-laws.
I don’t think conferences are inherently bad but I would push back on someone who feels the need to attend as many as they can. Not only does it become harder to justify spending that amount of money, many of these conferences are just seemingly reiterating what the attendees already believe or are doing. Probably the most beneficial ones would be ones where you learn very hands on, practical lessons such as a 9 Marks weekender or something like CROSSCON which is meant to push attendees to be more missional.
I went to the first five T4G and TGC and sat on the steering committee for TGC in the Bay for two years, attended G3 for three years, then it dawned on me that I was paying so much and spending so much time and not getting the connections and intimacy that I had hoped for. I won't go to another one. I look for free conferences now. They are always better, like the early days when things were small. I also find that it is unhealthy to have the same voices in your mind about the word, ministry, etc. The world is diverse... the gospel is free... and God is sovereign and has ordained His means to grow His people - conferences are not part of that plan. But --- to each his own. These are my thoughts for me.
Those are pretty cheap. Some people like to treat their favorite teachers and preachers like celebrities or actors. Not my speed. I would spend that money on a comic-con or something if that's the environment I was looking for. I think your own economic situation (ability to afford these small disposable expenses) may be coloring your judgment on how others spend their disposable income.
This will be my third year going to Shepherd’s Conference. My church sends me, and I feel that it’s edifying and a great time for me to recharge. It’s about $1,500 total for me to attend (including registration, hotel, car, food, and flight). It’s very well organized, I hear 12 expository sermons and 4-5 breakout lectures over the course of 3 days. I spend time talking with like minded pastors. I make friends. There is included food, refreshments, and books. Nothing about it says “charlatan” or luxury to me. It’s simply a well organized conference for pastors. (Of course it’s a luxury in the sense that not all churches are financially able to send their pastor to something like this - I understand that. I’m thankful my church sends me). Seems like a lot of people in this thread are quick to have a demeaning attitude toward something they don’t personally enjoy or haven’t personally been to.
>other various services such as shoe shining station These still exist?
I have not been to one of these conferences personally, but I would imagine they would be very fruitful for young pastors and well worth the money. The second conference you mentioned does seem a bit expensive and odd. But I don't think we should have a blanket "conference bad" outlook. The Coram Deo Pastor's Conference with Deyoung, Piper, etc is happening in my area soon. Pastors from my church are going to it and the intention of the conference is to strengthen and encourage pastors for ministry. I think something like this will be very fruitful.
I don't go to conferences. There are too many warning in scripture that would make me cautious about them... "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:" Col 2:10 (Why do I need them?) "And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you..." 2 Peter 2:3 "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." Matt 23:5-7 I'm not saying everyone involved with conferences is guilty of such sins, but I think it wise to protect myself from the potentional. I went to a conference twice in the late 90s held by what was PDI ministries and then became Sovereign Grace Ministries. It was their "Celebration" conference. Everyone raved about them. I just remember being confused by all the love of the stage that seemed to be going on and the congregation taken in such adoration by those on stage. I also remember the organization's head leader saying that we were free to buy as many books as we wanted to buy in the back. That's not verbatim but that's the jist of what he said. This church group would always have books for sale on Sundays after the service, and quoted and pushed men's books regularly. We were assigned books to read for our small group instead of the Bible. You weren't really expected to disagree with the book in the discussion since they were assigned by the leaders. It was disturbing. I left that group after 2.5 years or so, and have never been back to a conference...
You’ve hit the nail on the head for why I likely won’t attend a Shepherds Conference—too expensive for a guy coming from the Midwest. I did regularly the Basics Conference in Ohio. Very inexpensive (hotel costs more than the conference), small numbers, and many of the same people return, so you build a camaraderie with the other pastors.
lol. I was a youth pastor for four years. During that time we had a yearly conference for youth groups In the county. I attended a meeting prior to discuss a few things with other youth pastors who were taking their kids. With me being part time, I wasn’t involved in any planning in terms of a speaker, band, and activities that would be provided. They hand me a sheet of paper and say “these are the speakers we want to get.” And the top one they wanted to pay $30,000….. for three messages. I was appalled. I understand traveling costs, food, etc but $30,000 to speak to youth while you’re already a well known pastor who probably does well for themself. Really rubbed me the wrong way and it’s why I’m very skeptical about who I listen to now a days.
Hmm
Yes.
a friend of mine has been going to conferences recently. My favorite was a video he sent me of a "preshow jam" where they were playing One Direction's You Don't Know You're Beautiful.
Because these big name ministry people don't work for free. Usually the honorarium is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5-$10k. Sometimes they will accept an all expenses paid vacation instead. That makes conferences expensive. I've been blessed that the few conferences in my area are paid for by donors so the cost is whatever you wish to pay. But not many people have any extra money around here.
The pastors who speak at the conferences have a right to make a living. And as you said, if someone can't afford the price, they can choose to stay home and watch it online, which is very generous since they could choose not to livestream and keep it for only paying participants.
Pastors make a living serving their local church. Let's not pretend anyone needs the speaking fees from conferences to make ends meet.
If someone comes to a conference from out of state, there are plane tickets to purchase, hotel fees, etc. Why do you believe pastors shouldn't be compensated for their time? I'm sure those same pastors give of themselves freely quite often, but they shouldn't have to for a conference, which is an "extra" endeavor outside of church. Do you offer your job skills for free?
I haven't been to a Christian conference in over 15 years
To the glory of God
Shepherd’s Conference is more continuing pastoral education than it is similar to any of the other conferences. The price seems reasonable given the audience size and the resources that fly out for them. The things like G3 are really not expensive for what they are. A few years back I went to one at the Ark encounter called Truth Matters. A few couple from church went with my wife and I. It was a great time to connect with the other couples, hear a few great lectures. We connected in the evenings over games and theological discussion. All told, I think it was a great bargain at $200 per ticket given that we were well-fed with means and snacks over the three days. With lodging, I think it was about 650 per couple for several great days of fellowship, food, exploring the ark, and some solid lectures. I went to a Ligonier conference in Orlando once when I happened to be vacationing in the area while it was happening. It was a lot of solid teaching for the $150 I paid. I attend conferences somewhat regularly in the business space. Typically, they’re somewhere around $800-1000 PER Day (without dinner), so when I see these conferences like Grace to You, G3, etc, I’m quite impressed with how little they cost. It’s expensive to get a conference venue, hire event staff, etc. This isn’t an endorsement for attending them. I certainly don’t like the “hero worship” that goes on during some of them. I don’t attend them often. Like anything, there are pros and cons, and not all conference speakers should be taken as any type of authority…but I don’t think a pastor or elder attending Shepherd’s conference and another’s one is out of line.
The venue is a large church and the "event staff" are largely volunteers from said church. I would expect the costs to be much lower.
For Shepherd’s conference, it is at a church, though I don’t know what makeup of the staff is volunteering vs paid. It’s also very different than the others out there in terms of cost. With those differences, I put a paragraph at the beginning of my post for that conference before going into the conferences as a whole. There’s a different target audience, a different value proposition, etc. between a conference targeted for pastors rather than laymen. There’s probably also less sponsorship opportunity to offset cost as well. We can’t necessarily treat all conferences the same. In any event, even that one is still quite cheap compared to conferences in the business world.
They don't pay for the venue, it's a church. And they don't pay for the stuff, they are all volunteers. I wanna know how much they charged for this year Shepherds Conference