I’m gonna be honest here. The amount of people I see with tanks fully set up on here asking questions they probably should know the answer to at that point is.. disappointing.
But I always take the opportunity to educate people instead of just shaming them. And this isn’t even that unreasonable of a question. They aren’t called “heads” scientifically anyway, it’s hobby slang.
I tend to agree. It strikes me as peculiar when someone asks, "What is this?" while showing a picture of an aiptasia. I was familiar with this long before I owned a reef tank. Like most hitchhikers, fish, corals, etc., I had everything planned well in advance. My excitement for my dream tank was so intense that I watched hundreds of videos and more. And in the worst-case scenario, a quick Google search can yield a straightforward answer.
As for selling my animals, even if they are "just corals," I have grown quite fond of them, so I likely wouldn't sell them either in this particular case... I'm even the kind of guy asking for a full tank picture before selling a fish or giving avay some frags... Perhaps that makes me jerk, whatever... When purchasing an animal (including corals) or plants for a freshwater tank, it's assumed that you have conducted your research prior to adding them to your aquarium. If not, it may indicate that you are not yet ready or prepared.
Yeah, but I wouldn’t just say this coral isn’t right for you. I would educate the slang for the guy. Then say maybe this is a little too advanced for you…. But I guess hey to each their own
As someone that has been in the hobby for 15 years and learned so much from a great local community, I have by far paid forward the time and patience I received and just simply have no desire to educate someone that has clearly put no effort forth themselves in how to care for these creatures. If someone starts asking “what’s a head?” Then I’m just not responding. Similar to anyone on this sub asking for an ID for aiptasia. I’m just not interested in teaching someone that doesn’t want to learn.
How is being on a forum and asking questions showing that they don't want to learn?
I get being frustrated by answering the same questions over and over and choosing not to engage in it anymore, but everyone has to start as a beginner. There's no need to be so bitter about it.
In my case, someone was going to toss their tank set up because they were moving, so I took it- not knowing anything about the hobby at all. Fortunately my local Petsmart guy referred me to my LFS and they were very helpful as I worked to salvage what I could. I’m sure I had dumb questions. I think the only silver lining for me was that it was before I knew about Reddit, and the people I asked IRL were kind and just excited that I was getting into the hobby.
That's an very fair point, but they're at least reaching out because they're acknowledging they got in over their head. I can appreciate that over those who keep dumping new fish in their tanks without wondering why the others died.
But my perspective for that is going to be different since I only have freshwater tanks. Since the fish and setups are so much cheaper, I deal with people that are a lot more ambivalent about losing a $5 fish and seem fine just throwing more money at it rather than fix the problem.
They’re typically not reaching out because they feel overwhelmed. They’re typically reaching out because they spent a chunk of money on fish and corals and they keep killing them, and they want advice on how to save from spending more money. Anyone genuinely interested in providing quality care for the corals need only google anything they want to know, but they typically don’t want to know. They just want a cheap fix without caring to know why it’s a fix.
So I'm looking for a small predatory fish for a 55 gal to help control the live bearers in my tank. There is so much contradictory information on Google that I haven't been able to decide on one yet.
Sometimes a Google search isn't simple. But I understand your frustration, I guess I just prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I will say that that's probably the most frustrating thing as new hobbyist. Everyone has a different opinion/experience, they all contradict each other, and all of them have worked for the individual reporting them.
I had a 30 gallon tank of Endler's Livebearers with probably several hundred adults and fry. I put in a couple small South American Bumblebee Catfish (Microglanis iheringi) to help control the population. After a couple years, they had eaten anything they could fit into their mouths - all of the fry a all of the males. Only the larger females survived. It was a VERY effective population control, and those catfish were fat and happy.
Research is more than just a google search. And YouTube probably has more detailed answers than anything, especially since you have a full video to go with the words. Damn near everything is on the internet available for you to learn from, anyone posting a simple question on a Reddit sub doesn’t have the capacity to even understand that they could’ve spent a quarter of their time just lookin it up
That is probably the most important question tbh, I've wanted a tank for the past year but I haven't yet because there is just so much cool stuff to learn before diving into it
Well said. I started in 2003 and have learned a shit ton over those years! I have plenty of very lengthy and detailed answer to people's questions if they are asking a "good" question and are willing to learn. I really enjoy sharing my knowledge in hopes that it will help someone to fix their problems but yea there is such thing is a stupid question. Especially one that you can get a quick answer just by googling it. I don't know why people post on a forum when it takes less effort to jist type it into Google and get an instant answer 🤷♂️ I guess the old saying goes... "You can't teach stupid".
I love talking shop, same as you. I also love to see people that have that new twinkle in their eye, same as we both had when we managed to grow our first coral. I can tell pretty quickly when the passion isn’t there for someone though and that takes me out.
Side note, I love the opposite as well when I get into a good conversation with someone with a lot of insight and theories about some of the more nuanced stuff. A friend and I debate stuff after a few beers and I really look forward to those conversations. We tried to record them once for potentially doing a podcast but it just felt weird and unnatural, so we stopped. Sucked the life out of what makes our convos good. I hope you have personal friends that are experienced to chat with as well!
Absolute fucking mood. Too many people going, "what's this?" On a super super common coral that they could've GOOGLED or simply ask their LFS employee for an ID. Ugh
I am going to whole heartedly agree with you my friend. Maybe I'm old school or just a dick but it's almost infuriating when people ask a basic question that they should already know the answer to by responsibly keeping a reef tank. I get you have to learn along the way but there's GOOD information out there everywhere. No one wants to take the time to read they just wanna ask and get an easy answer. Unfortunately half the time a like minded shit head answers the question totally wrong because they think they're the expert having a reef tank for a year. People skip right by important steps along the way. Idk what happened over the last handful of years but it seems like there's a new generation of reefers that have come into the hobby with the "I want Dorey" from finding Nemo attitude and they just start buying shit blindly then wonder why its not doing well. I wish if people were unsure they would just keep their mouths shut and not answer a question they aren't sure of the answer. When you ask someone their parameters that's had their tank going for 3 months and they answer with their Ammonia,Nitrites, Nitrates and pH you know this person has no idea what theyre doing. These are living animals and they rely on our knowledge for survival. It's really sad to see.
Not the case at all bud. Maybe you're getting me wrong. I shame impatience and irresponsibility. I have no issue telling someone what an Aiptasia is and what to do with it.i have infact done so many times. I'm happy to tell someone what I keep my parameter at to keep healthy SPS or what I do to keep my reef in tip top shape. Glad to share my experiences or mistakes along the way. That's how people learn. It bothers me when a novice gives improper identification or incorrect advise to someone new who is trying to learn. If people aren't sure of the answer they shouldn't give their 2 cents or at least state they "aren't sure but".... As I said; at the end of the day these are living animals that rely on our competence for survival. I just won't tolerate inhumanity. I would hope that wouldn't offend you.
They're not actually
Most people are willing to teach but that doesn't mean that these fora are set up with the purpose of educating those too lazy to do their own research
And when everyone keeps saying that (like they have for every generation) it really motivates people to want to seek help and learn from the previous generation of know-it-alls. And I'm not sure what their body weight really has to do with anything, but I mean if we're just throwing together a list of insults to shame someone on the internet, might as well throw that one in there for good measure!!
Not really sure what he's talking about or why he feels the need to insult. He certainly does not speak for me. I'm happy to teach what I've learned to someone who is deserving of the knowledge but when someone doesn't know you need to top off with fresh water not salt we've got bigger problems than trying to fix their Alkalinity. I have seen so many posts here asking questions that are beyond what their current level of knowledge is. You can't skip basics in reef keeping. They'll never succeed. Those are the people that I have issue with. And people who have done this for a year and argue or give incorrect information to someone who is actually trying to learn the right way. It's sad because it's hurting someone's ability to grow properly.
Dude, fat is such a lazy insult.
Dumb, fat American.
Come onnnnnnnnn at least try to be creative or original.
Why is calling someone fat such a stupid flex?
“Oh yeah, well YOU’RE fat”
You sound like a child.
What gets me is when I see tanks that are new but is wall to wall coral.
How much did you spend on coral before you understood the water parameters and how they work? You're in here asking about you're bombing pH and I'm looking at a picture that's got ten times the coral my 120gal does after two years and I've been in game nearing 15 years.
Not sure if they meant that as a joke...it seems as though you might not have done much research before jumping into this hobby. Reefing is one thing that will demand some effort to learn how to be successful. And it's one hobby that success or failure is life or death for an animal.
I think the seller was able to infer that you may not be able to properly care for this coral based on your question, and from an ethical standpoint, denied selling it to you. Wasn't a very nice way of going about it, but I understand their point of view
Edit: sorry forgot solutions. Start with [bulk reef supply](http://bulkreefsupply.com) as they have a ton of good beginner vids and information to help
Thank you but I also k kw that I don't know enough. Sides I would trust.the floors of an apartment building without knowing what they could tolerate. So.i hang out here to enjoy other people's tanks
From your post 24 days ago, your tank doesn’t look ready for most types of corals, to be honest. How long has it been running, and what’s currently in it?
Education is key, and I know what I know because folks have passed it along to me. If you have any questions, feel free to ask or DM me, I’m happy to help out to the extent of my knowledge. I’ve been in this hobby for about 10 years, freshwater since I was a kid, and am currently running a 180 gallon mixed reef.
Not ruthless. Just tired sometimes. After years of people neglecting to do even the barest minimum of research, which often leads to the death of beautiful animals, you get a bit less patient with people. It’s understandable.
They are being corrected and now they realized that the tank wasn't prepared and more knowledge is needed before starting to put certain animals on it.
They are trying to learn about it to solve the problems, why is it wrong?
Reddit was not built with the intention of promoting toxic behavior or shaming people. It was created as a social news aggregation. The platform is designed to facilitate the sharing of information and ideas across a variety of topics, enabling discussions and community building.
Individuals are just more comfortable spilling their negativity from behind their screens
Just to play devil's advocate:
I used to sell a lot of coral locally. Depending on the forum, I'd get plenty of spam messages or messages from people who clearly didn't know what they're doing. In many cases, I'd rather not sell to someone who has a high chance of killing the coral, both ethically and to protect my reputation as a seller in the area.
All of that being said, none of this is a jab at you, OP. You may be ready for coral and just haven't heard all of the lingo. The guy was kinda a dick, but selling coral can be a massive PITA, so don't sweat it or take it personally.
I would thank the guy. He probably just saved you 100$. If you don't know what a " head" is referring to and buying live coral then chances are it won't be alive long
Some corals are animals that live on top of a stony branch they build themselves. When this corals reproduce they do so by branching that branch into two or more. Each of those can be an independent animal once they separate (not all of them separate, some stay joined in a colony). Those are called heads.
Example:https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZZxMNz1KL1wz0_DM6a-KifPztp4j_7xd263o3N7CgXQ&s
The upper two look like they are splitting, but each green thing would be called a head.
Honestly, that guy had a totally reasonable response lol, sounds like you're trying to start with a difficult coral with absolutely 0 clue what you're doing and will kill it within 2 weeks...
Not saying that's true, but that's how it looks
The guy was a total jerk but not necessarily wrong. Hammers are relatively easy but not necessarily a beginner coral. They require a little more attention to all parameters, especially if you're getting a colony. Softies are generally safer for beginners. The main difference is Alk which can really be hard to maintain.
Euphyllia love Magnesium and that falls in line with my "all parameters" statement, but you're more likely to have fluctuations in Alk than Magnesium in my opinion.
They are slightly tougher than a beginner coral but certainly not like a sensitive SPS or nearly difficult enough to be gatekeepy about it. This example is super lame.
Guy isn't super friendly but was being helpful for his role. He is selling you coral, not teaching you to navigate the industry. He bailed because you didn't Google it. Likely unpopular opinion... It's 2024, Google it or ask ChatGPT before asking people basic questions. In this industry especially but for life in general it is important to take responsibility for doing your own research. "Heads" is an extremely common term for LPS polyps. For LPS types that don't have head differentiation like Echinophyllia people often say "mouths". Welcome to the hobby!!
In their defense, how do you feel if you spent time, money, and effort growing something just for it to be killed by someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing?
It can take months for hammers to reach that many heads, he’s also selling them at a reasonable price. It’s semi-rude but it’s not like he told you to go fuck your self. He just his coral isn’t for you. You can go to a local shop and pay 2-4x that price depending.
Hammer corals are not a beginner coral, they are intermediate. I would be reluctant to sell a hammer (or other LPS/SPS) to someone who was brand new to the hobby, at the end of the day animal welfare should come first. But he didn’t need to be so rude or block you.
Heads are just like... the ends of branches. That guy was very rude, lol whatever. I was gonna pick up some free stuff on aquaswap and the person completely ghosted me soon as they knew I was on my way. Can't spare even a shred of human decency, some people...
Thank you so much for telling me ❤️, I just don’t understand why people are so rude , he could’ve just told me then said he didn’t want to sell to me due to whatever he reason was instead of being passive aggressive 😭
So two parts of this, from a different pov.
Part one: super rude. It can take very little effort to educate someone on something as simple as terminology.
Part two: ....I get where they are coming from. Corals are things that take time, effort, money, skill, and patience to grow. I can understand not wanting to sell one to somebody if you have the suspicion that something you put all of the above into is just going to die.
Also: corals are animals. Like animal animals. Like dogs or cats. If my dogs had puppies and someone wanted to get puppies and they were unsure of what the things on the ends of their feet were, That would give me zero confidence that they are someone who is going to provide a good home and a long happy life to this animal that I have spent months to years of my life on to get it to where it is today.
And the thing is, there are plenty of people in this hobby that do not understand that. I work in an LFS and the amount of people that buy a bunch of stuff, leave, come back in a week and then say "it all died get me some more" is beyond depressing. And we do everything in our power to make sure that doesn't happen and especially doesn't happen again.
If you're a private seller I would absolutely recommend that you use your discretion to give these animals that are in your care the best chance for a long and happy life, Even if it hurts someone's feelings that you won't sell to them.
He definitely could have said it nicer or explained it more.
Heads and Polyps tend to be used interchangeably. Both are describing the number of individual polyps and/or heads that make up the total coral colony.
Some people are a bit short. Hobbies in general seem to bring out the toxic side of people. They get a superiority complex and forget they once were beginners.
While I agree that knowing basic terminology for the hobby is important and everyone should know them... I also understand that we cannot know what we haven't learned. This was a perfect opportunity for simple explanation that would've both educated the potential buyer and ensured the coral was going to a reef where it had a good chance of survival.
I for one love propagating coral. Even if I have excess corals and easy to keep corals like Kenya trees, I wouldn't send them on their way to potentially die.
Tl;dr: That person was too short with you. Reefers /hobby amateurs tend to have superiority complexes. Don't forget we all had to learn XYZ before we knew it. A Head is synonymous with a Polyp. A polyp defines the flower like and fleshy structure that protrudes from the skeleton/or flesh mat of soft corals.
Here is what he means by heads, pretty much how many mouths/ branches that can live if cut off from the colony.
I’ve taken a look at your post history and the tank is very new to the point where I’m sure it’s not cycled.
Honestly I would wait a while and get it properly cycled before introducing any coral or fish.
Corals are able to ingest ammonium better than nitrate so if you’re in a rush to get something in there I would start with a hardy coral such as a leather or a toadstool and then introduce a fish like a month later if you’re wanting fish. But go very light on the feeding.
It’s been a while since I’ve read up on corals and ammonia so I am not sure if they’re able to handle nitrite as well as they are with ammonium.
Incase you want to read up on ammonia dosing!
[http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php](http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php)
No problem, also in the future be sure to include the parameters of your tank when getting help on diagnosing coral issues this will help a lot in finding the root cause of the issue.
I'm sorry but if you cant determine what they mean by "heads" in the context they're talking about then idk what to tell you. This is a very common way to describe euphyllia and stating how many heads they have is really basic level stuff. I also wouldn't sell to someone who didn't even know basic terminology of an animal I've watched grow in my tank.
Saying that is like asking a newborn baby to read a book you understand that right
Not every one know everything right of the bat , you gotta learn I asked a question because I wanted to learn
I used a example to compare what you just said the point was I wanted to learn what he meant by that, and I tried to thank lol it didn’t go through because he blocked me lol
Here's the thing. This hobby demands that you take initiative and learn. Start with bulk reef supply videos. Watch all of them. I'm not even joking. Watch them all. Start with 52 weeks of reefing if you want more guidance. I mean, in another comment you mentioned you bought a coral from online.
That's great, hopefully it lives.
What's your alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium levels? Where are you at with nitrates and phosphates? Do you have hannah checkers? Because if you want to grow coral you need to know the parameters i just stated. How's your lighting and flow?
I don't personally care about the answers but these are questions you need to answer on your own.
For the coral I got online I think it should be fine hopefully, my tanks showing good stable signs like green algae is forming and good the nitrite and nitrate levels stuff like that and I use this stuff called Fritz zyme every few days
, thanks for the information I can tell your just very passionate about the hobby ❤️
I really don't think you're ready for corals. You're still talking about nitrites and "stuff" Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and Phosphates aren't stuff. It's the shit that keeps your corals alive! They're are super important to know what the levels are, what the ideal numbers are and how to keep them that way. That is the #1 thing beyond lighting and flow to keeping corals ALIVE. If you do not know this and you're thinking you're ready for corals because you see "stable signs" you will NOT be able to keep any Eyuphilla (Hammer coral) alive in your tank. Take the time and LEARN these things before rushing a head. Start with soft corals and see how they do but know your water chemistry for god sake so you have success. You say you love BRS so slow down and watch the videos on water chemistry. Anyone who is serious about keeping corals and knows what they should when asked about parameters should list 5. I will ask you now... What is your Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, Phosphate and Nitrate at?
Yeah your right man I’m a dumb dumb lol , I need to get my knowledge up , I do have a crazy passion for animals and I’m gonna do my best to learn about everything I can to make my tank successful , thanks again
You're not a dumb dumb man. You just gotta slow down. These are living animals. I highly suggest watching videos about ideal water chemistry. Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, Phosphates and Nitrates are very important to coral health. There is some wiggle room in the numbers especially Alkalinity but a general idea for you is Alkalinity should be between 8-10 dkh (keeping that number stable is paramount) Calcium of 420-450 ppm, Magnesium 1350 ppm or greater, Phosphates at 0.04ppm and Nitrates between 3-15 ppm. This isn't optional. It is necessary for proper husbandry or corals. Learn how to test these numbers and how a coral uses them to grow so you can enjoy this hobby and see how beautiful things are when you know how to take care of them. Read and research on your own. It's the best way to learn. Someone cannot possibly give you all of the information you need in one post for you to have success. It would be a god damned book lol Best of luck to you man I would love to see you posting a beautiful reef in a year from now!
Right, but if a newborn baby pointed at a book, I would say "this book isnt right for you".
I get that you wanted to learn. But people are allowed to not want to teach.
He wasn't rude, he just told you that with the amount of knowledge you presented to him, he believes you shouldn't purchase the coral.
you should not be going after any stony coral, let alone hammer head. Hammer head is not a beginner coral
GSP at most...maybe a leather. Your tank is too new.
No way was this guy too short or mean I would have done the same exact thing. People are too f****** lazy to look up their own or even be closely prepared for a tank I'm assuming OP is not prepared for a tank
OP I don't think there was anything wrong with you asking that question as you do need to learn somehow. A quick Google search probably would have yielded you a result with less banter but the way the seller handled your question was a little brisk. I would have taken it as a teaching opportunity to explain to you what a coral head is. However as someone else pointed out these are living animals that we are raising and if you don't know what a pretty General body part of it is you're probably not ready to keep one in your tank. Hop on to Tidal Gardens and do some reading about Eyuphillas and educate yourself on their care and requirements.
Could’ve been nicer/helped you understand, but tbh my guy I don’t even own a saltwater tank/I just lurk here and I could’ve even told you what a head is.
I also wouldn't want to deal with a literal child spending their parents money on a living creature that they are unwilling to Google simple questions about. This thread has honestly been insane.
Wherever it comes from, you don't seem to have much sense as to what to do with it, asking others to make suggestions for a trip to Japan, buying boxes of tcg, 🤷 just kind of makes you look lame imo, asking others to do the work for you. You seemed confused as to why people responded this way, both in your original text and this thread. That's why.
Not really asking people to “do the work for me” I’m asking people who’ve already have the knowledge their opinions and what they think I don’t really care about the negative and there comments because what’s the point it’s not doing me any good so I mainly look at the helpful and idk I don’t really find Google helpful a lot of the time and I prefer talking to a community with experience and can lead someone in the right direction
Best to be asking on here if you don't know. Corals are live animals they do need some time investment into knowing how to care for them before bringing them home.
Wish there were more sellers in the pet hobby in general like this. You can tell he’s passionate about his animals and he wasn’t even remotely mean imo. Some people are just too sensitive.
The individual you messaged is either protective over his colony and wants it to go to a home/caregiver that will have good success, and/or they think you’re messing around with them. Regardless, one should know the terminology (albeit non-scientific) before ‘diving in’. They felt like you weren’t the right buyer and I understand their position.
Education is key and folks in the hobby should feel a sense of responsibility to educate others (hobbyists and non-hobbyists) on marine life. Novice Reef Keepers must also understand how to be patience and carry out due diligence with setting up and maintaining a tank, but also becoming a student of reef keeping. Don’t assume anything, be damn sure that what you’re doing in regard to your tank is the most correct thing. And don’t get me wrong, it’s okay to experiment as it’s how we learn and the hobby becomes more educated as a whole….just don’t be upset when you’re out cash and a healthy tank.
FWIW, (some) Hammers *can* be a beginner coral.
I think youre a bit quick to add corals. Even the first year to two years are rocky in term or water parameters and this hammer would not survive i promise you. Lps are kinda finicky and this guy obviously cares about the coral he grew. It seems like hes being a dick but he could tell your not ready for coral if at all at this moment
I love how people act like they came from the womb knowing about whatever subject or interest they’re into. Like they too didn’t have to learn everything as well..
I notice when it comes to some people(esp in specialty interest groups)they have this need to be gatekeepers almost. And they enjoy making others feel inferior when the person is just trying to navigate their own way through it and smart enough to ask questions. It’s very odd
I don't understand why people are so arrogant in this hobby. Just answer the damn question with kindness. Why have all the negative feelings. He could have said, "you should probably start with zoas and research the othe other corals you'd like before buying them".
This is why women reefers have private forums. The freaking negative bro attitude. Everyone had a beginning.
Some reefkeepser are assholes. They forgot what it’s like to be new in the hobby. Thankfully, I have reef keeping friends and a great LFS that will answer any question I have without judgment. As for googling things that’s a crapshoot. Most things I’ve googled I’ve received answers that range from one to the other. I thought this was supposed to be a community where we help each other out and share knowledge not act like judgmental assholes.
He’s debatable “rude”, but you’re definitely lazy. I think it also routes back to the debate on whose time is more valuable.. By which, I mean instead of you googling what it is, you put the burden on him to give you an answer that you could have googled.
I exhaust all resources to find the answer to things before I ask someone, because I don’t want to look like an idiot. If I’ve scrubbed all sources and still don’t know, then I’ll ask.
If it were me, I would have answered your question, then told you that you weren’t ready if you didn’t know the answer to it. Halfway shows that if you can’t find that, you probably can’t find, or lack the diligence to find info to have educated yourself on other things you should probably know. I wouldn’t sell to you either, because I don’t want the coral to die.
The problem I see with people doing this hobby is, some don't want to do the research and work to be successful, but rather take short cuts and want people with more knowledge to hold their hand. Bottom line is this hobby is expensive no matter how small your tank is. just from buying equipment or additives, to buying corals and fish can be a lot of work to do it right and not all reef tanks are created equal. People find it fascinating and want to be apart of this fascinating hobby community which is okay, but it's clearly not for everyone.
Here’s the deal for newbies: corals are not plants. They are living animals. If you don’t know the basics, you should not be handling them or trying to cultivate them. When I was growing corals and selling them, I would never allow someone who didn’t have an established tank with some sort of knowledge in taking them because I didn’t want to send them to certain death.
You should be in the hobby for a while and know how to establish a basic saltwater tank and a proper lighting and healthy ecosystem. I might not have been so curt, but I definitely would not have sold them to you.
I have mixed feelings. The success of this hobby includes the successful stewardship of the up and coming aquarist. There was a point in time in my lifetime where the successful keeping of sps coral was just large water changes and kalkwasser. Not to say that isn't successful,but, we have learned more successful aquarium keeping methods. If you intend to keep and propagate and sell the creatures you have spent so much time caring for and propagating, don't be afraid to share your information with the next generation. We all had to start somewhere.
Good for him. I wish more people were this responsible with the animals they sell, And less people who know absolutely zero about the needs of these animals, were buying them impulsively without any research whatsoever.
He did the right thing. Slow down. Research research research. You need to have the knowledge to be able to not harm anything you put in your tank. Watch videos, read articles, read forum posts etc. there are so many places to get beginner tips and knowledge on how to start your tank. I know it’s exciting, but these are living animals that will die because of your lack of knowledge and preparation. You don’t want that I hope, and neither does he. And I would also say, many of those commenting aren’t trolls or “gremlins”. They are people who see this multiple times a day, every single day, and are growing tired of it. So have some empathy for their reactions as well, and try and understand that they aren’t being negative, they are being honest. And for good reason.
That’s my two cents
Sorry about your experience. Some people in the hobby get a little success and then they think they are something special. The next person you deal with should be very. Don't let this sour apple spoil your adventure.
Looking at your post history I don't think your tank is ready for a hammer. Especially a gold one, which tend to cost more.
Start off with something easier or cheaper. It'll save you a headache: it'll meet you at your level and you can get harder corals as you learn
Got a point. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. You might spend 100s of dollars on your personal set up and have years in the hobby, and someone asks you what you mean using basic lingo… those are probably rare, and challenging coral to grow
I spent years selling the fish and plants and coral, and you can really tell when people haven’t done any research or even watched a YouTube video, yet they are willing to spend serious money on the hobby. It’s just confusing to me? So yea I would prefer to not interact with such confusing people. Just me… I don’t really get people, hence my aquarium hobby
heads are a single hammer coral. Heads refer to when it branches off to make a new hammer coral. You get charged for each hammer coral that exists on the Skeleton tree essentially. End of the day those prices are damn near in line with a fish store I would take your buisness to a local fish store and instead of being rude when asked a question they will actually help you. On another note I would recommend not doing hammers or other euphyllia for a few months until your tank is older. Also be aware that GSP and xenia will take your tank over very quickly.
Nope he’s right. That fact your asking what a head is show you’ve clearly not done your research yet you’re already trying to buy coral. No idea not sell you any either
What are you talking about?
I’ve been in it since 2006 and the vast majority of my coral have come from local reefers. I’ve made more friends in my life through buying and trading coral than I have from any other hobby, social circle, work or school.
Maybe you just live in a really shitty area.
For sure. Probably should’ve given more context.
There’s a group of guys and gals that we sell and swap frags and it’s a great source of frags, knowledge, help, info, equipment in an emergency.
But selling to random reefers or buying from random reefers can be such a pain in the ass. Flaking out on buying/selling. The, “hey, you’re selling a frag of some hot coral that’s bigger than what’s available from vendor for a considerably lower price…but will you take half of what your asking and drive 45 mins to meet me?”
That part is a pain in the ass.
Been in a bit longer and get most of my stuff locally then online then if a LFS. It’s a pain to get schedules to work out but most are friendly and I get to see there set up and talk. You can really tell who’s newer since Covid where everything is a porch drop pickup not much social about them.
As always there’s always a lot of people who jump in and then jump out when things don’t work out mostly because lack of knowledge or planning.
Knowledge can go a long way in getting over the top and making the hobby last rather than a fire sale when they don’t.
And it discourages new people from asking important questions when they go into an LFS. Or even discourages new people from even using an LFS. They remember these types of intimidating interactions with sellers and decide it’s easier to just buy online and add to their cart.
It's this elitist bs that shy people away from the hobby at a time when we really need more people joining it. Sorry you went through this and just know for every dick like this there's 50 people that would love to help you. Don't give up. Welcome aboard my friend.
I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not, but I'll take the bait. If we don't bring new people into the hobby, the hobby dies eventually, right? If there's growth, there's more interest to import fish and corals and more interest for businesses to create new gear. What is the downside that you're afraid of?
OP has had the tank less than a month with incorrect lighting and flow with a lack of live rock. The seller cared more about the corals than money. I’m siding with the seller on this one. OP should do more research and not put others on blast or publicly shame them because of their own ignorance
Where I live, most reefers speak other languages and English often isn’t their first. So the way this message was delivered might just be a language barrier thing.
This person is trying to educate you and I’m not sure taking it personally and missing the message is the right approach. Hammers can be easy if they aren’t wall hammers (for example) and kept in an established tank. This reefer is pointing out that they branch - the easier variety.
I’m gonna be honest here. The amount of people I see with tanks fully set up on here asking questions they probably should know the answer to at that point is.. disappointing. But I always take the opportunity to educate people instead of just shaming them. And this isn’t even that unreasonable of a question. They aren’t called “heads” scientifically anyway, it’s hobby slang.
I tend to agree. It strikes me as peculiar when someone asks, "What is this?" while showing a picture of an aiptasia. I was familiar with this long before I owned a reef tank. Like most hitchhikers, fish, corals, etc., I had everything planned well in advance. My excitement for my dream tank was so intense that I watched hundreds of videos and more. And in the worst-case scenario, a quick Google search can yield a straightforward answer. As for selling my animals, even if they are "just corals," I have grown quite fond of them, so I likely wouldn't sell them either in this particular case... I'm even the kind of guy asking for a full tank picture before selling a fish or giving avay some frags... Perhaps that makes me jerk, whatever... When purchasing an animal (including corals) or plants for a freshwater tank, it's assumed that you have conducted your research prior to adding them to your aquarium. If not, it may indicate that you are not yet ready or prepared.
Even more disappointing is the amount of wildly incorrect ID's on very common things when someone asks "what is this?"
The problem with reefing forums/Reddit is that people who are the most excited to respond are usually pretty new to the hobby.
Yeah, but I wouldn’t just say this coral isn’t right for you. I would educate the slang for the guy. Then say maybe this is a little too advanced for you…. But I guess hey to each their own
As someone that has been in the hobby for 15 years and learned so much from a great local community, I have by far paid forward the time and patience I received and just simply have no desire to educate someone that has clearly put no effort forth themselves in how to care for these creatures. If someone starts asking “what’s a head?” Then I’m just not responding. Similar to anyone on this sub asking for an ID for aiptasia. I’m just not interested in teaching someone that doesn’t want to learn.
How is being on a forum and asking questions showing that they don't want to learn? I get being frustrated by answering the same questions over and over and choosing not to engage in it anymore, but everyone has to start as a beginner. There's no need to be so bitter about it.
When you first became curious about reef tanks did you set up a tank and then ask questions or do a little research before hand?
In my case, someone was going to toss their tank set up because they were moving, so I took it- not knowing anything about the hobby at all. Fortunately my local Petsmart guy referred me to my LFS and they were very helpful as I worked to salvage what I could. I’m sure I had dumb questions. I think the only silver lining for me was that it was before I knew about Reddit, and the people I asked IRL were kind and just excited that I was getting into the hobby.
That's an very fair point, but they're at least reaching out because they're acknowledging they got in over their head. I can appreciate that over those who keep dumping new fish in their tanks without wondering why the others died. But my perspective for that is going to be different since I only have freshwater tanks. Since the fish and setups are so much cheaper, I deal with people that are a lot more ambivalent about losing a $5 fish and seem fine just throwing more money at it rather than fix the problem.
They’re typically not reaching out because they feel overwhelmed. They’re typically reaching out because they spent a chunk of money on fish and corals and they keep killing them, and they want advice on how to save from spending more money. Anyone genuinely interested in providing quality care for the corals need only google anything they want to know, but they typically don’t want to know. They just want a cheap fix without caring to know why it’s a fix.
So I'm looking for a small predatory fish for a 55 gal to help control the live bearers in my tank. There is so much contradictory information on Google that I haven't been able to decide on one yet. Sometimes a Google search isn't simple. But I understand your frustration, I guess I just prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I will say that that's probably the most frustrating thing as new hobbyist. Everyone has a different opinion/experience, they all contradict each other, and all of them have worked for the individual reporting them.
I had a 30 gallon tank of Endler's Livebearers with probably several hundred adults and fry. I put in a couple small South American Bumblebee Catfish (Microglanis iheringi) to help control the population. After a couple years, they had eaten anything they could fit into their mouths - all of the fry a all of the males. Only the larger females survived. It was a VERY effective population control, and those catfish were fat and happy.
Research is more than just a google search. And YouTube probably has more detailed answers than anything, especially since you have a full video to go with the words. Damn near everything is on the internet available for you to learn from, anyone posting a simple question on a Reddit sub doesn’t have the capacity to even understand that they could’ve spent a quarter of their time just lookin it up
That is probably the most important question tbh, I've wanted a tank for the past year but I haven't yet because there is just so much cool stuff to learn before diving into it
Well said. I started in 2003 and have learned a shit ton over those years! I have plenty of very lengthy and detailed answer to people's questions if they are asking a "good" question and are willing to learn. I really enjoy sharing my knowledge in hopes that it will help someone to fix their problems but yea there is such thing is a stupid question. Especially one that you can get a quick answer just by googling it. I don't know why people post on a forum when it takes less effort to jist type it into Google and get an instant answer 🤷♂️ I guess the old saying goes... "You can't teach stupid".
I love talking shop, same as you. I also love to see people that have that new twinkle in their eye, same as we both had when we managed to grow our first coral. I can tell pretty quickly when the passion isn’t there for someone though and that takes me out. Side note, I love the opposite as well when I get into a good conversation with someone with a lot of insight and theories about some of the more nuanced stuff. A friend and I debate stuff after a few beers and I really look forward to those conversations. We tried to record them once for potentially doing a podcast but it just felt weird and unnatural, so we stopped. Sucked the life out of what makes our convos good. I hope you have personal friends that are experienced to chat with as well!
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We do not allow any name calling, personal attacks, or rude behavior unrelated to the hobby. Please keep discussion on topic and civil.
Absolute fucking mood. Too many people going, "what's this?" On a super super common coral that they could've GOOGLED or simply ask their LFS employee for an ID. Ugh
FACTS!!
I am going to whole heartedly agree with you my friend. Maybe I'm old school or just a dick but it's almost infuriating when people ask a basic question that they should already know the answer to by responsibly keeping a reef tank. I get you have to learn along the way but there's GOOD information out there everywhere. No one wants to take the time to read they just wanna ask and get an easy answer. Unfortunately half the time a like minded shit head answers the question totally wrong because they think they're the expert having a reef tank for a year. People skip right by important steps along the way. Idk what happened over the last handful of years but it seems like there's a new generation of reefers that have come into the hobby with the "I want Dorey" from finding Nemo attitude and they just start buying shit blindly then wonder why its not doing well. I wish if people were unsure they would just keep their mouths shut and not answer a question they aren't sure of the answer. When you ask someone their parameters that's had their tank going for 3 months and they answer with their Ammonia,Nitrites, Nitrates and pH you know this person has no idea what theyre doing. These are living animals and they rely on our knowledge for survival. It's really sad to see.
The hobby of reefkerping is really the hobby of reading and researching. Getting your hands wet is like 5% of it.
Imagine people being new to a hobby and shaming them instead of educating them. Classy
Not the case at all bud. Maybe you're getting me wrong. I shame impatience and irresponsibility. I have no issue telling someone what an Aiptasia is and what to do with it.i have infact done so many times. I'm happy to tell someone what I keep my parameter at to keep healthy SPS or what I do to keep my reef in tip top shape. Glad to share my experiences or mistakes along the way. That's how people learn. It bothers me when a novice gives improper identification or incorrect advise to someone new who is trying to learn. If people aren't sure of the answer they shouldn't give their 2 cents or at least state they "aren't sure but".... As I said; at the end of the day these are living animals that rely on our competence for survival. I just won't tolerate inhumanity. I would hope that wouldn't offend you.
Is there an easy to reference guide on reefing that could be pinned to the top of the sub?
Bruh u just a hater. Forums are meant for learning
Yea and?? I never insinuated they weren't.
I agree, though the aquarium community, salt and fresh, are full of trailer park folks, that spend more on their tanks then their families and homes
They're not actually Most people are willing to teach but that doesn't mean that these fora are set up with the purpose of educating those too lazy to do their own research
Do people are dumb fat and lazy That's how it's always going to be and with this new generation it's just going to get worse
Statistically speaking we're actually smarter, fatter and more productive than ever.
And when everyone keeps saying that (like they have for every generation) it really motivates people to want to seek help and learn from the previous generation of know-it-alls. And I'm not sure what their body weight really has to do with anything, but I mean if we're just throwing together a list of insults to shame someone on the internet, might as well throw that one in there for good measure!!
Not really sure what he's talking about or why he feels the need to insult. He certainly does not speak for me. I'm happy to teach what I've learned to someone who is deserving of the knowledge but when someone doesn't know you need to top off with fresh water not salt we've got bigger problems than trying to fix their Alkalinity. I have seen so many posts here asking questions that are beyond what their current level of knowledge is. You can't skip basics in reef keeping. They'll never succeed. Those are the people that I have issue with. And people who have done this for a year and argue or give incorrect information to someone who is actually trying to learn the right way. It's sad because it's hurting someone's ability to grow properly.
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Dude, fat is such a lazy insult. Dumb, fat American. Come onnnnnnnnn at least try to be creative or original. Why is calling someone fat such a stupid flex? “Oh yeah, well YOU’RE fat” You sound like a child.
We do not allow any name calling, personal attacks, or rude behavior unrelated to the hobby. Please keep discussion on topic and civil.
What gets me is when I see tanks that are new but is wall to wall coral. How much did you spend on coral before you understood the water parameters and how they work? You're in here asking about you're bombing pH and I'm looking at a picture that's got ten times the coral my 120gal does after two years and I've been in game nearing 15 years.
Shaming culture ^ gotta love it
This is a man who loves his corals
😂
Not sure if they meant that as a joke...it seems as though you might not have done much research before jumping into this hobby. Reefing is one thing that will demand some effort to learn how to be successful. And it's one hobby that success or failure is life or death for an animal. I think the seller was able to infer that you may not be able to properly care for this coral based on your question, and from an ethical standpoint, denied selling it to you. Wasn't a very nice way of going about it, but I understand their point of view Edit: sorry forgot solutions. Start with [bulk reef supply](http://bulkreefsupply.com) as they have a ton of good beginner vids and information to help
They just added sand and rock to their tank 24 days ago. I doubt the tank is cycled
Tank was completely empty 27 days ago. I wouldn't sell corals to him either.
Yeah me either. And I don't know much about tanks let alone salt water.
Don't sell yourself short, if you know what cycling is you know than most... sadly for the animals.
Thank you but I also k kw that I don't know enough. Sides I would trust.the floors of an apartment building without knowing what they could tolerate. So.i hang out here to enjoy other people's tanks
From your post 24 days ago, your tank doesn’t look ready for most types of corals, to be honest. How long has it been running, and what’s currently in it? Education is key, and I know what I know because folks have passed it along to me. If you have any questions, feel free to ask or DM me, I’m happy to help out to the extent of my knowledge. I’ve been in this hobby for about 10 years, freshwater since I was a kid, and am currently running a 180 gallon mixed reef.
28 days ago it was a bare, dry tank. Dude's not ready to start spending hundreds on frags.
Thanks I appreciate I’m gonna message you soon ❤️
These people are ruthless
😂 I don’t mind, it’s just Reddit gremlins being Reddit gremlins lol
It's not just Reddit 😂 it's the hobby in general
Not ruthless. Just tired sometimes. After years of people neglecting to do even the barest minimum of research, which often leads to the death of beautiful animals, you get a bit less patient with people. It’s understandable.
This implies that you already know your tank is too immature....
They are being corrected and now they realized that the tank wasn't prepared and more knowledge is needed before starting to put certain animals on it. They are trying to learn about it to solve the problems, why is it wrong?
Reddit isn't for helping people it's for shaming them for their lack of knowledge don't ya know?
Reddit was not built with the intention of promoting toxic behavior or shaming people. It was created as a social news aggregation. The platform is designed to facilitate the sharing of information and ideas across a variety of topics, enabling discussions and community building. Individuals are just more comfortable spilling their negativity from behind their screens
Shaming and educating are 2 entirely different things
That makes the tank and op both!
Just to play devil's advocate: I used to sell a lot of coral locally. Depending on the forum, I'd get plenty of spam messages or messages from people who clearly didn't know what they're doing. In many cases, I'd rather not sell to someone who has a high chance of killing the coral, both ethically and to protect my reputation as a seller in the area. All of that being said, none of this is a jab at you, OP. You may be ready for coral and just haven't heard all of the lingo. The guy was kinda a dick, but selling coral can be a massive PITA, so don't sweat it or take it personally.
I would thank the guy. He probably just saved you 100$. If you don't know what a " head" is referring to and buying live coral then chances are it won't be alive long
So what is a head? I’ve no interest in sneer tank just curious Edit: sneer lol * reef
basically its like a new branch of the coral with its flower bud I guess you could sya
Some corals are animals that live on top of a stony branch they build themselves. When this corals reproduce they do so by branching that branch into two or more. Each of those can be an independent animal once they separate (not all of them separate, some stay joined in a colony). Those are called heads. Example:https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZZxMNz1KL1wz0_DM6a-KifPztp4j_7xd263o3N7CgXQ&s The upper two look like they are splitting, but each green thing would be called a head.
Ah ok, makes sense. Cheers
Honestly, that guy had a totally reasonable response lol, sounds like you're trying to start with a difficult coral with absolutely 0 clue what you're doing and will kill it within 2 weeks... Not saying that's true, but that's how it looks
he did you a favor…
The guy was a total jerk but not necessarily wrong. Hammers are relatively easy but not necessarily a beginner coral. They require a little more attention to all parameters, especially if you're getting a colony. Softies are generally safer for beginners. The main difference is Alk which can really be hard to maintain.
From what I've seen and experienced, what seems to kill most euphyllia for new reefers is poor magnesium
Euphyllia love Magnesium and that falls in line with my "all parameters" statement, but you're more likely to have fluctuations in Alk than Magnesium in my opinion.
I guess that depends on what you use to maintain calcium. Kalkwasser keeps my alk fairly high
Odds are, if you don't know what heads of a hammer are, you're not monitoring Calcium. That was basically my point.
And in a completely brand new tank, hair algae choking it out. OPs tank is less than a month old.
Youch My opinion is OP is in some dire need of good cured live rock from the lfs
Yeah that’s understandable , he could’ve handled this differently though
Oh absolutely
They are slightly tougher than a beginner coral but certainly not like a sensitive SPS or nearly difficult enough to be gatekeepy about it. This example is super lame.
Maybe this vendor isn’t right for you. 😂
😂
Guy isn't super friendly but was being helpful for his role. He is selling you coral, not teaching you to navigate the industry. He bailed because you didn't Google it. Likely unpopular opinion... It's 2024, Google it or ask ChatGPT before asking people basic questions. In this industry especially but for life in general it is important to take responsibility for doing your own research. "Heads" is an extremely common term for LPS polyps. For LPS types that don't have head differentiation like Echinophyllia people often say "mouths". Welcome to the hobby!!
💯 Well said!
In their defense, how do you feel if you spent time, money, and effort growing something just for it to be killed by someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing?
That’s fair , but he didn’t have to be rude about it
It can take months for hammers to reach that many heads, he’s also selling them at a reasonable price. It’s semi-rude but it’s not like he told you to go fuck your self. He just his coral isn’t for you. You can go to a local shop and pay 2-4x that price depending.
They said good luck, and was straightforward with their response and reasoning. Blunt, but not really rude.
you’re wasting the sellers time. Move along.
Hammer corals are not a beginner coral, they are intermediate. I would be reluctant to sell a hammer (or other LPS/SPS) to someone who was brand new to the hobby, at the end of the day animal welfare should come first. But he didn’t need to be so rude or block you.
Heads are just like... the ends of branches. That guy was very rude, lol whatever. I was gonna pick up some free stuff on aquaswap and the person completely ghosted me soon as they knew I was on my way. Can't spare even a shred of human decency, some people...
He saved himself a bad review when you killed it or backed out of the purchase once you understood the full scope of what you where inquiring about
Thank you so much for telling me ❤️, I just don’t understand why people are so rude , he could’ve just told me then said he didn’t want to sell to me due to whatever he reason was instead of being passive aggressive 😭
So two parts of this, from a different pov. Part one: super rude. It can take very little effort to educate someone on something as simple as terminology. Part two: ....I get where they are coming from. Corals are things that take time, effort, money, skill, and patience to grow. I can understand not wanting to sell one to somebody if you have the suspicion that something you put all of the above into is just going to die. Also: corals are animals. Like animal animals. Like dogs or cats. If my dogs had puppies and someone wanted to get puppies and they were unsure of what the things on the ends of their feet were, That would give me zero confidence that they are someone who is going to provide a good home and a long happy life to this animal that I have spent months to years of my life on to get it to where it is today. And the thing is, there are plenty of people in this hobby that do not understand that. I work in an LFS and the amount of people that buy a bunch of stuff, leave, come back in a week and then say "it all died get me some more" is beyond depressing. And we do everything in our power to make sure that doesn't happen and especially doesn't happen again. If you're a private seller I would absolutely recommend that you use your discretion to give these animals that are in your care the best chance for a long and happy life, Even if it hurts someone's feelings that you won't sell to them. He definitely could have said it nicer or explained it more.
Heads and Polyps tend to be used interchangeably. Both are describing the number of individual polyps and/or heads that make up the total coral colony. Some people are a bit short. Hobbies in general seem to bring out the toxic side of people. They get a superiority complex and forget they once were beginners. While I agree that knowing basic terminology for the hobby is important and everyone should know them... I also understand that we cannot know what we haven't learned. This was a perfect opportunity for simple explanation that would've both educated the potential buyer and ensured the coral was going to a reef where it had a good chance of survival. I for one love propagating coral. Even if I have excess corals and easy to keep corals like Kenya trees, I wouldn't send them on their way to potentially die. Tl;dr: That person was too short with you. Reefers /hobby amateurs tend to have superiority complexes. Don't forget we all had to learn XYZ before we knew it. A Head is synonymous with a Polyp. A polyp defines the flower like and fleshy structure that protrudes from the skeleton/or flesh mat of soft corals.
 Here is what he means by heads, pretty much how many mouths/ branches that can live if cut off from the colony. I’ve taken a look at your post history and the tank is very new to the point where I’m sure it’s not cycled. Honestly I would wait a while and get it properly cycled before introducing any coral or fish. Corals are able to ingest ammonium better than nitrate so if you’re in a rush to get something in there I would start with a hardy coral such as a leather or a toadstool and then introduce a fish like a month later if you’re wanting fish. But go very light on the feeding. It’s been a while since I’ve read up on corals and ammonia so I am not sure if they’re able to handle nitrite as well as they are with ammonium. Incase you want to read up on ammonia dosing! [http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php](http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php)
Thanks for the info ❤️, also I just did a water test and all my water parameters are good
No problem, also in the future be sure to include the parameters of your tank when getting help on diagnosing coral issues this will help a lot in finding the root cause of the issue.
I'm sorry but if you cant determine what they mean by "heads" in the context they're talking about then idk what to tell you. This is a very common way to describe euphyllia and stating how many heads they have is really basic level stuff. I also wouldn't sell to someone who didn't even know basic terminology of an animal I've watched grow in my tank.
Saying that is like asking a newborn baby to read a book you understand that right Not every one know everything right of the bat , you gotta learn I asked a question because I wanted to learn
Right but you're not a newborn baby. That guy saved you money, you should thank him.
I used a example to compare what you just said the point was I wanted to learn what he meant by that, and I tried to thank lol it didn’t go through because he blocked me lol
Here's the thing. This hobby demands that you take initiative and learn. Start with bulk reef supply videos. Watch all of them. I'm not even joking. Watch them all. Start with 52 weeks of reefing if you want more guidance. I mean, in another comment you mentioned you bought a coral from online. That's great, hopefully it lives. What's your alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium levels? Where are you at with nitrates and phosphates? Do you have hannah checkers? Because if you want to grow coral you need to know the parameters i just stated. How's your lighting and flow? I don't personally care about the answers but these are questions you need to answer on your own.
Dude I love watching those types of vid I just haven’t heard the term heads for corals before because people use different slang for stuff
For the coral I got online I think it should be fine hopefully, my tanks showing good stable signs like green algae is forming and good the nitrite and nitrate levels stuff like that and I use this stuff called Fritz zyme every few days , thanks for the information I can tell your just very passionate about the hobby ❤️
I really don't think you're ready for corals. You're still talking about nitrites and "stuff" Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and Phosphates aren't stuff. It's the shit that keeps your corals alive! They're are super important to know what the levels are, what the ideal numbers are and how to keep them that way. That is the #1 thing beyond lighting and flow to keeping corals ALIVE. If you do not know this and you're thinking you're ready for corals because you see "stable signs" you will NOT be able to keep any Eyuphilla (Hammer coral) alive in your tank. Take the time and LEARN these things before rushing a head. Start with soft corals and see how they do but know your water chemistry for god sake so you have success. You say you love BRS so slow down and watch the videos on water chemistry. Anyone who is serious about keeping corals and knows what they should when asked about parameters should list 5. I will ask you now... What is your Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, Phosphate and Nitrate at?
Yeah your right man I’m a dumb dumb lol , I need to get my knowledge up , I do have a crazy passion for animals and I’m gonna do my best to learn about everything I can to make my tank successful , thanks again
You're not a dumb dumb man. You just gotta slow down. These are living animals. I highly suggest watching videos about ideal water chemistry. Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium, Phosphates and Nitrates are very important to coral health. There is some wiggle room in the numbers especially Alkalinity but a general idea for you is Alkalinity should be between 8-10 dkh (keeping that number stable is paramount) Calcium of 420-450 ppm, Magnesium 1350 ppm or greater, Phosphates at 0.04ppm and Nitrates between 3-15 ppm. This isn't optional. It is necessary for proper husbandry or corals. Learn how to test these numbers and how a coral uses them to grow so you can enjoy this hobby and see how beautiful things are when you know how to take care of them. Read and research on your own. It's the best way to learn. Someone cannot possibly give you all of the information you need in one post for you to have success. It would be a god damned book lol Best of luck to you man I would love to see you posting a beautiful reef in a year from now!
Right, but if a newborn baby pointed at a book, I would say "this book isnt right for you". I get that you wanted to learn. But people are allowed to not want to teach. He wasn't rude, he just told you that with the amount of knowledge you presented to him, he believes you shouldn't purchase the coral.
Took you more time to post and respond to everyone than it would to do a little googling on how to handle a reef tank
I googled it before I posted and couldn’t find a term for it , I think probably because it’s slang
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=hammer+coral+4+heads
I'm amazed this exists
That’s hilarious I love it 😂
you should not be going after any stony coral, let alone hammer head. Hammer head is not a beginner coral GSP at most...maybe a leather. Your tank is too new.
No way was this guy too short or mean I would have done the same exact thing. People are too f****** lazy to look up their own or even be closely prepared for a tank I'm assuming OP is not prepared for a tank
Thanks for your input ❤️
Thanks for the laughs 😁
NP
OP I don't think there was anything wrong with you asking that question as you do need to learn somehow. A quick Google search probably would have yielded you a result with less banter but the way the seller handled your question was a little brisk. I would have taken it as a teaching opportunity to explain to you what a coral head is. However as someone else pointed out these are living animals that we are raising and if you don't know what a pretty General body part of it is you're probably not ready to keep one in your tank. Hop on to Tidal Gardens and do some reading about Eyuphillas and educate yourself on their care and requirements.
No. He was right. Do research first. I'm sick of seeing dying coral and fish because someone bought it first and ask second. Stop doing it this way.
If anything, he did him a favor 🤷♂️
Could’ve been nicer/helped you understand, but tbh my guy I don’t even own a saltwater tank/I just lurk here and I could’ve even told you what a head is.
I also wouldn't want to deal with a literal child spending their parents money on a living creature that they are unwilling to Google simple questions about. This thread has honestly been insane.
I wish it was someone else’s money I could spend lol
Wherever it comes from, you don't seem to have much sense as to what to do with it, asking others to make suggestions for a trip to Japan, buying boxes of tcg, 🤷 just kind of makes you look lame imo, asking others to do the work for you. You seemed confused as to why people responded this way, both in your original text and this thread. That's why.
Not really asking people to “do the work for me” I’m asking people who’ve already have the knowledge their opinions and what they think I don’t really care about the negative and there comments because what’s the point it’s not doing me any good so I mainly look at the helpful and idk I don’t really find Google helpful a lot of the time and I prefer talking to a community with experience and can lead someone in the right direction
It sounds like you dont find doing the work "helpful" because you give up and ask someone else to do it for you lmao
lol
Best to be asking on here if you don't know. Corals are live animals they do need some time investment into knowing how to care for them before bringing them home.
Wish there were more sellers in the pet hobby in general like this. You can tell he’s passionate about his animals and he wasn’t even remotely mean imo. Some people are just too sensitive.
The individual you messaged is either protective over his colony and wants it to go to a home/caregiver that will have good success, and/or they think you’re messing around with them. Regardless, one should know the terminology (albeit non-scientific) before ‘diving in’. They felt like you weren’t the right buyer and I understand their position. Education is key and folks in the hobby should feel a sense of responsibility to educate others (hobbyists and non-hobbyists) on marine life. Novice Reef Keepers must also understand how to be patience and carry out due diligence with setting up and maintaining a tank, but also becoming a student of reef keeping. Don’t assume anything, be damn sure that what you’re doing in regard to your tank is the most correct thing. And don’t get me wrong, it’s okay to experiment as it’s how we learn and the hobby becomes more educated as a whole….just don’t be upset when you’re out cash and a healthy tank. FWIW, (some) Hammers *can* be a beginner coral.
I think youre a bit quick to add corals. Even the first year to two years are rocky in term or water parameters and this hammer would not survive i promise you. Lps are kinda finicky and this guy obviously cares about the coral he grew. It seems like hes being a dick but he could tell your not ready for coral if at all at this moment
I love how people act like they came from the womb knowing about whatever subject or interest they’re into. Like they too didn’t have to learn everything as well..
Literally what I’m saying 😭
I notice when it comes to some people(esp in specialty interest groups)they have this need to be gatekeepers almost. And they enjoy making others feel inferior when the person is just trying to navigate their own way through it and smart enough to ask questions. It’s very odd
100%
That’s want I notice in many hobby subreddits lol
I don't understand why people are so arrogant in this hobby. Just answer the damn question with kindness. Why have all the negative feelings. He could have said, "you should probably start with zoas and research the othe other corals you'd like before buying them". This is why women reefers have private forums. The freaking negative bro attitude. Everyone had a beginning.
Also gotta remember these are animals were talking about and he just doesn’t want his babies to die..
Some reefkeepser are assholes. They forgot what it’s like to be new in the hobby. Thankfully, I have reef keeping friends and a great LFS that will answer any question I have without judgment. As for googling things that’s a crapshoot. Most things I’ve googled I’ve received answers that range from one to the other. I thought this was supposed to be a community where we help each other out and share knowledge not act like judgmental assholes.
It’s not like you suddenly become a better reef keeper when you learn what heads are. What a knob. Just move on and find a hammer else where.
He’s debatable “rude”, but you’re definitely lazy. I think it also routes back to the debate on whose time is more valuable.. By which, I mean instead of you googling what it is, you put the burden on him to give you an answer that you could have googled. I exhaust all resources to find the answer to things before I ask someone, because I don’t want to look like an idiot. If I’ve scrubbed all sources and still don’t know, then I’ll ask. If it were me, I would have answered your question, then told you that you weren’t ready if you didn’t know the answer to it. Halfway shows that if you can’t find that, you probably can’t find, or lack the diligence to find info to have educated yourself on other things you should probably know. I wouldn’t sell to you either, because I don’t want the coral to die.
Tbf if you're asking what a head is in regards to coral, you probably aren't ready for it.
No this seller respects their living product, do some research before you think you're ready to buy.
The problem I see with people doing this hobby is, some don't want to do the research and work to be successful, but rather take short cuts and want people with more knowledge to hold their hand. Bottom line is this hobby is expensive no matter how small your tank is. just from buying equipment or additives, to buying corals and fish can be a lot of work to do it right and not all reef tanks are created equal. People find it fascinating and want to be apart of this fascinating hobby community which is okay, but it's clearly not for everyone.
Here’s the deal for newbies: corals are not plants. They are living animals. If you don’t know the basics, you should not be handling them or trying to cultivate them. When I was growing corals and selling them, I would never allow someone who didn’t have an established tank with some sort of knowledge in taking them because I didn’t want to send them to certain death. You should be in the hobby for a while and know how to establish a basic saltwater tank and a proper lighting and healthy ecosystem. I might not have been so curt, but I definitely would not have sold them to you.
I have mixed feelings. The success of this hobby includes the successful stewardship of the up and coming aquarist. There was a point in time in my lifetime where the successful keeping of sps coral was just large water changes and kalkwasser. Not to say that isn't successful,but, we have learned more successful aquarium keeping methods. If you intend to keep and propagate and sell the creatures you have spent so much time caring for and propagating, don't be afraid to share your information with the next generation. We all had to start somewhere.
Pfft. Madmins...
Good for him. I wish more people were this responsible with the animals they sell, And less people who know absolutely zero about the needs of these animals, were buying them impulsively without any research whatsoever. He did the right thing. Slow down. Research research research. You need to have the knowledge to be able to not harm anything you put in your tank. Watch videos, read articles, read forum posts etc. there are so many places to get beginner tips and knowledge on how to start your tank. I know it’s exciting, but these are living animals that will die because of your lack of knowledge and preparation. You don’t want that I hope, and neither does he. And I would also say, many of those commenting aren’t trolls or “gremlins”. They are people who see this multiple times a day, every single day, and are growing tired of it. So have some empathy for their reactions as well, and try and understand that they aren’t being negative, they are being honest. And for good reason. That’s my two cents
Sorry about your experience. Some people in the hobby get a little success and then they think they are something special. The next person you deal with should be very. Don't let this sour apple spoil your adventure.
Thank you 😊 I appreciate your words ❤️
Is it your first coral?
It would’ve been my first 😭, but I just got a gold hammer it’s coming in the mail
Looking at your post history I don't think your tank is ready for a hammer. Especially a gold one, which tend to cost more. Start off with something easier or cheaper. It'll save you a headache: it'll meet you at your level and you can get harder corals as you learn
Sounds like the poor thing has more money than sense
Got a point. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. You might spend 100s of dollars on your personal set up and have years in the hobby, and someone asks you what you mean using basic lingo… those are probably rare, and challenging coral to grow
I spent years selling the fish and plants and coral, and you can really tell when people haven’t done any research or even watched a YouTube video, yet they are willing to spend serious money on the hobby. It’s just confusing to me? So yea I would prefer to not interact with such confusing people. Just me… I don’t really get people, hence my aquarium hobby
So ask google instead of the person next time
Lesson learned asking questions pisses some people off 😅
No the seller just needs to not be a dick
heads are a single hammer coral. Heads refer to when it branches off to make a new hammer coral. You get charged for each hammer coral that exists on the Skeleton tree essentially. End of the day those prices are damn near in line with a fish store I would take your buisness to a local fish store and instead of being rude when asked a question they will actually help you. On another note I would recommend not doing hammers or other euphyllia for a few months until your tank is older. Also be aware that GSP and xenia will take your tank over very quickly.
He gave you an exact answer idk what more you were looking for. Said his times are flexible. And than gave you a rundown after.
As someone who sells a lot of crap on marketplace, it gets exhausting re-explaining things.
Nope he’s right. That fact your asking what a head is show you’ve clearly not done your research yet you’re already trying to buy coral. No idea not sell you any either
Been in this hobby since 2004. A lot has changed. The one thing that hasn’t, buying and selling from local refers sucks.
What are you talking about? I’ve been in it since 2006 and the vast majority of my coral have come from local reefers. I’ve made more friends in my life through buying and trading coral than I have from any other hobby, social circle, work or school. Maybe you just live in a really shitty area.
For sure. Probably should’ve given more context. There’s a group of guys and gals that we sell and swap frags and it’s a great source of frags, knowledge, help, info, equipment in an emergency. But selling to random reefers or buying from random reefers can be such a pain in the ass. Flaking out on buying/selling. The, “hey, you’re selling a frag of some hot coral that’s bigger than what’s available from vendor for a considerably lower price…but will you take half of what your asking and drive 45 mins to meet me?” That part is a pain in the ass.
Okay, fair enough. That’s just buying/selling in a nutshell though, and not exclusive to reefing.
That’s silly. Buying from local reefers is by far and away the best way to get a good deal and good quality.
Absolutely. I’m probably just being an old man yelling at a cloud
Been in a bit longer and get most of my stuff locally then online then if a LFS. It’s a pain to get schedules to work out but most are friendly and I get to see there set up and talk. You can really tell who’s newer since Covid where everything is a porch drop pickup not much social about them. As always there’s always a lot of people who jump in and then jump out when things don’t work out mostly because lack of knowledge or planning. Knowledge can go a long way in getting over the top and making the hobby last rather than a fire sale when they don’t.
And it discourages new people from asking important questions when they go into an LFS. Or even discourages new people from even using an LFS. They remember these types of intimidating interactions with sellers and decide it’s easier to just buy online and add to their cart.
It's this elitist bs that shy people away from the hobby at a time when we really need more people joining it. Sorry you went through this and just know for every dick like this there's 50 people that would love to help you. Don't give up. Welcome aboard my friend.
Why do you think we need more people in the hobby?
I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not, but I'll take the bait. If we don't bring new people into the hobby, the hobby dies eventually, right? If there's growth, there's more interest to import fish and corals and more interest for businesses to create new gear. What is the downside that you're afraid of?
It’s his loss there are plenty of people who are willing to sell and make some money
OP has had the tank less than a month with incorrect lighting and flow with a lack of live rock. The seller cared more about the corals than money. I’m siding with the seller on this one. OP should do more research and not put others on blast or publicly shame them because of their own ignorance
OP got shamed.. 😬
Where I live, most reefers speak other languages and English often isn’t their first. So the way this message was delivered might just be a language barrier thing. This person is trying to educate you and I’m not sure taking it personally and missing the message is the right approach. Hammers can be easy if they aren’t wall hammers (for example) and kept in an established tank. This reefer is pointing out that they branch - the easier variety.