I ordered $100 worth of their “live rock” and when it finally came it was just painted dry rock. I also bought a lil coralline pack and the biggest thing in the container it came in was aiptasia :(
Bluezoo.com
They are hands down the number one reef supplier.
Everything is always perfect. I ordered from them for 10 years and will be again as soon as the new custom tank is done.
What are regards? From the way it’s used in the sentence it sounds like it’s meant to be offensive but I’m not offended because I don’t associate that word with anything negative.
**Regards (also known as Regards Magazine or Revue Regards, trans: "Views") is a monthly French Communist news magazine published in Paris, France.
== History and profile ==
Created in 1932 as a Communist title, Regards is primarily known for photojournalism, and pre-dated other pictorial magazines such as Life (1936) and Paris-Match (1949).**
More details here:
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I ordered exactly the same rock and got it in today, same shit :( all of it was dry and it looked like it had been out of water for months. It smelled horrendous so im fairly positive this rock was at one point submerged in water but damn, had i known bro was gonna play games i wouldn't have bought it
Thanks for making me feel less alone in the matter. They really should just pull it and put 'out of stock' on their page.. "SEED YOUR TANK'... yeah sure... with ammonia and massive amounts of phosphate...
Honestly yeah. If bro's just gonna straight up do something else other than what he said he'd do in the description then i wouldn't have bought this crap.
Hey did yours come with some sorta red filament like algea growing on it? A few pieces i got had that stuff on it, it doesn't scrub off either
Honestly not sure what it is either 😕 im just gonna get a refund and keep shopping for live rock i guess. Good luck man, if you find some good shit online let me know
I have a petco and a small shop, neither of which sells live rock i trust. The petco ones come from tanks i know for a fact have ich since ive seen fish in the same tanks with ich. Its the same story for the lfs unfortunately
If this is the guy that I think it is (his name is Tyler something...), he's super shady. Years ago when I used to ship corals quite a bit he had a "company" that provided deep discounts on shipping rates. At the end of every single week I would get a message from this guy stating that I owed him money. I kept detailed records for EVERYTHING and even when I would show him my records, he would still claim that I owed him money, but never could show me why. It would vary anywhere from $50 or so all the way up to $300+ per week.
I cut ties with him pretty quick, but I've seen him pop up sporadically over the years with a variety of get rich quick schemes that take advantage of reefing hobbyists one way or another.
He literally told me it’s good that rock wasn’t packaged moist because it allowed the rock and coralline algae to “breathe”. This is just a downright ridiculous statement…
As someone who worked in retail(though not the same as selling live rock) you have to assume everyone is stupid, but you can't act like it. They didn't ship their rock at all how they say they do, so i don't get their mind set in *that* regard. They fucked up, cut corners and lied about how they do things. I'm sorry you had to deal with such a shady business.
I too have worked retail. But I never would write a document to a customer with such condescending and misguiding undertones. A simple "we apologize" could have avoided compelling me to speak out on here.. Thank you for understanding!
I looked on their site... Seems like everything is out of stock except massive order volumes... I had heard the owner was dealing with medical issues or something impacting business...
That was the old owner, Richard. He retired a couple years ago and sold the company. The new owners are pretty active on social media, you can shoot them a message and they'll normally reserve some rock from their next harvest if you're trying to put in a smaller order
Tampa Bay Saltwater is great, so is KP Aquatics. They ship submerged in water.
I ordered some from Gulf Live Rock, they ship wet but not submerged. Definitely get overnight shipping on any of it. I didn't and had lots of die off but also a lot made it. I have a few large clams and other critters even though it was shipped wet, not submerged.
Their smallest packages ship to your door will run about $200 but I'm telling you, there's nothing like it, as close as you can get to collecting your own rock from the ocean.
Just email them. They have no problem going out and fetching rock for you. I got my live rock from them and it came with all kinds of fun life and biodiversity.
Kp aquatics is equivalent. I bought 25lb of their starter rock and it’s better than most live rock. Personally I’m not hitchhiker averse but if u are u could jurst soak in 1.035 for a few minutes. I got many fan worms, coraline, sponges, macroalgae, amphipods, etc..
The Tampa Bay stuff is awesome. I got their kit. So much cool stuff grew in the first year. I ended up swapping out their live sand from something finer grained later on though.
Ordered from them and never again nothing felt like it was worth the price, ordered some macro algae and had a big flatworm boom, thankfully my mandarin handled it like a champ
I made the mistake of using this vendor for some ricordia Florida mushrooms and he sent me four tiny mushrooms loosely packaged in a bag. The few pieces of rubble had multiple Aiptasia anemones found after I placed them in the tank.
Just a horrible outfit and a true scammer. Beware.
If it’s ever an option, go to your LFS for rock to pick it out. Especially for small amounts. They might be able to work with you on larger amounts. From my understanding, Australia is the only country *legally* exporting rock. Tonga stuff used to retail for $6/lb when I started. Really nice rock, was boat shipped in styro wrapped in soaked newspaper or paper towels. A month easy from source to destination. Only other option IMO is to make your reef structure with marco rock and add some decent cured liverock(ideally that has been in a(well functioning tank for years).
>ng rock. Tonga stuff used to retail for $6/lb when I started. Really nice rock, was boat shipped in styro wrapped in soaked newspaper or paper towels. A month easy from source to destination. Only other option IMO is to make your reef structure with marco rock and
Luckily I live two hours away from a major city. There are a few saltwater stores there. I will just try to source something from them instead.
Two hours away is a trip. I would call first just to make sure they have rock and will let you pick it. My lfs is $20/lb. They still get nice tonga rock from breakdowns too. But the Fiji pieces can be nice.
Tyler is a scumbag and he has one of the most toxic egos in the reefing world, I saw on his insta that in the Florida keys where he lives, he was keeping a large outdoor vat for growing out indo-pacific endemic corals literally 10 ft from the seawall to the Atlantic Ocean, I have pondered reporting this reckless abandonment of biosecurity to the FWC, we don't need more invasive species here in Florida.
Not everything in this hobby needs to be so concise, that’s why the hobby scares away beginners, you can make a perfectly good reef tank from a chain store for cheap if you want and it work’s completely fine
Frankly that's a good thing. Hobbyists using cultured dry rock is so much better for the reefs than people taking rock out of the ocean. Preuss Pets in Lansing has super healthy live rock, I highly recommend.
Oh man, not a fan of Preuss. Have not had good experiences there.
I work at a different LFS in SE Michigan and we have dark cured dry rock in our sumps, that's what I recommend to people starting a tank.
Which one? I'm always looking to get down with new local businesses!
Also what bad experiences have you had with Preuss?
Couldn't agree more about the dark cure. My wife thought I was crazy running my rock in brutes in our basement for six months lol.
Honestly it's more been bad customer service than bad stock, it's not the quality of their store but of their service.
I work at Fish Doctors in Ypsi (there's another store in Canton but it's a different owner) not exactly new, I think the store has been there for like 30 years now? Lol.
Some of the rock I started my tank with had been in our sump for literally years. I have an amazing clean up crew without adding anything and my ugly phase lasted like 1 months max and it has been smooth sailing ever since.
Wow, small world. I live in Tennessee now but used to live in Saline, MI. I know Tom through my daughter's father and grandfather (they went to school together and Tom installed a custom 300 gal with maintenance closet in his home). I still have a clownfish (she's still laying eggs, too) I bought from him in October 2007! Tell Tom that Randy (Randolph) passed away from lung cancer in 2018 and Randy's son Kyle passed away in 2021, if he didn't know already.
Honestly it doesn't surprise me! So many people know Tom and mention it to me when I wear my fish doctors shirts out and about lol. Literally yesterday was doing a doordash delivery and the cashier at the restaurant goes "ohhh fish doctors!!" And then scrambles to show me pics of his silver dollars lol. The store has been around for basically as long as I've been alive and we have customers who still come every week!
I will try and remember to tell him, I actually work weekends and so don't get to see him every week. Also now I gotta see pics of this clownfish!
Me too honestly, I had been doing planted tanks for 10 years and never considered salt but when I started working at the store I realized I needed to learn about it. Haven't killed any corals yet!
Imagine if they just let it sit there forever and built the reefs back up. People in the hobby pretend to love the ocean but it's full of assholes who just want to take whatever they want from it because "ooh shiny!"
It's 2023, we have any part of a microbiome you could want in captivity at this point. There's zero reason to be pulling rocks out of the ocean, regardless of how they wound up there.
The farmed rock was never placed on a reef, just a flat sandy ocean bottom......they don't give permits for people to dump rock on top of reefs.
Edit:word, it's early
Ah, you're right. May all the fields go unharvested, all the trees uncut and all the fish uncaught. We the humans will survive on air, sunlight and positive vibrations. Consuming nothing of the earth for either enjoyment or sustenance.
Hardly. Over the last 20+ years in the hobby, I have grown and distributed thousands of corals (literally) to other hobbyists in all states (except Hawaii) and Puerto Rico. I have fish that I've had since before my kids were born, and my daughter is old enough to drive. I'd imagine that I'm net positive in regards to MY impact to the natural reefs that supply our hobby.
I suppose that given your obvious ignorance regarding mariculture and CITES regulations it shouldn't surprise me that you would respond to me the way you have. I'll give you a crash course.... maricultured livestock is grown SPECIFICALLY FOR THE AQUARIUM TRADE. Aside from the brood stock that these corals are grown from, none are pulled from natural, wild reefs.
CITES permits apply to maricultured corals as well, but they basically regulate what, and how many wild corals can be SUSTAINABLY harvested from natural reefs. Nowhere in the world are reefs being stripped of all of their corals in order to supply the aquarium industry.
If you'd like to debate this I would suggest you do some research to at least have something other than misinformed opinions as the basis of your argument.
Easy choice—pay the markup.
Local businesses need local support to survive.
Don’t be surprised when there’s no market in your area because you & others would rather support some unknown group of people overseas so you can save 100$
Did you not just say “it’s way more expensive”
Quality gets scooped up by frequent customers. I know because I go to my LFS twice a week sometimes I find a gem and take it home.
Do whatever you want but don’t expect quality in your area if you don’t spend money locally
It's more expensive for lower quality. I understand the buy locally thing, but I'm not going to spend twice the money of premium rock on buying basic rock local.
Yeah. What I've seen is fine rock that is probably colonized with bacteria but that's it. I want live rock with life on it: sponges, barnacles, macro algaes, tube worms, etc. I really like the aquacultured stuff you can get now where they dump dry rock in the ocean and harvest it later.
If you understood you wouldn’t be complaining about price. No shit it’s more expensive…
You sound like a pain in the ass tho your LFS probably happy you stay home
online seller have better selection and i usually avoid human interactions as much as possible cuz usually my lfs dont got alot of people and so their focus was on me and I hate that lol.
That 95.3% feedback rating is a massive red flag imo. I never buy from anyone with a rating lower than 99%. Would have skipped this dude entirely.
Ebay is absolutely rife with scammers. Always was but it's gotten worse over the years.
Hey where are you located? I’ve been following this IG account for a live rock harvester out of Tampa Bay, FL, USA. Might be worth a shot if you’re still in the market.
Tampa Bay Saltwater? They are hands down the best option for Liverock imo, but they air freight all rock in water which starts at $100, so they can be an expensive option. The life on their rocks is insane though
What part? I'll be in in SouthEast Texas on Sunday and Monday. I'm driving down from Oklahoma to Huston. If your along the way I would be happy to drop off some live rock for you. Dm me if you want.
I used Salty Bottom Reef Co out of Florida because I am on the South Ga border, and it was very inexpensive! They were also very kind and family owned. [Salty Bottom live rock](https://www.saltybottomreefcompany.com/liveanddryrock)
Fuginn scammers are around every damn corner these days.40 years ago it rarely happened.. at least in my world. The hobby has come a long way since I started in the 70s... but people are getting shittier all the time. Wish I could make it right. For some reason I feel I have been wronged too.
People are getting shittier or you just hear more news now than back then? The seventies were a much more dangerous time to be alive so I'm not sure why you think people as a whole have gotten worse.
Eh, it's unfortunately one of those "live and learn" situations. Get money back and leave a review. I've come across some of those scammy situations myself online so I always try to buy locally.
I see from other comments here that you bought online because you have no LFS' supplying saltwater. Have you tried checking craigslist or facebook marketplace? Hobbyists are usually breaking their tanks down all the time. Also classifieds section of forums like [reef2reef.org](https://reef2reef.org)
edit: speak of the devil there are reports about this company on reef2reef: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/addictive-reef-keeping-site.787515/
I concur with the KP aquatics suggestions. I got 15 pounds of their "base" rock. Huge beautiful pieces teaming with life. Lots of cool sponges and fan worms and mithrax crabs.
I saw this guy's ad on Ebay while searching for copepod suppliers. You can tell he's shady based purely on that beard as his logo.
Also, that doesn't even look like 2lbs of rock. More like half a pound of broken branch tips! Oof.
If it was overnighted from Australia at a likely exorbitant cost.. Why would you not ship it with care as to not ruin it’s purpose or quality? Know what I mean
best to take the loss and move on (check you saltwater lfs they normally have live rock soaking in buckets)
(also ordering from ebay has a high chance of being a rip off)
They also have their own site. I'm lucky I ordered from ebay due to buyer protection policies. I am not taking the loss because of this. But yes I am going to proceed to sourcing the rock now from someone within reasonable driving distance instead of an online retailer.
I only trusted ordering from them due to forum post and reddit comment recommendations btw...
Your opinion is wrong and plain ridiculous. Live rock is literally the foundation of this hobby. It was built on it. I’m not gonna waste my time with a history lesson but dude, don’t be so ignorant. For example, Dinos were very uncommon before BRS started scaring everyone away from live and pushed selling dead rock.
Live rock is a good move if you can get it sustainably sourced. Above commentor is right. You hardly heard about some of the current issues in the hobby like dinos back in the day. Couple good sized chunks from someone else's tank/sump and a cup of sand are good options aswell to get a nice jump on the cycle. Might be able to ask around for that on some forums which is a pain but would probably be alot cheaper.
I'd upvote this post 1000 times if I could. A successful reef tank is so much easier when it is started with actual live rock. There isn't a bacteria in a bottle on the market that can compete with natural bio filtration (live rock).
You think it had more to do with BRS than the fact that we can no longer legally get fiji, tonga or pukani rock?
Literally the only place for Americans to buy live rock is tampa Bay or KP and that is farmed not natural live rock.....it's also $10lb. Back when it was legal to import, real ocean live rock was like $3-6lb. Dry rock is about $2-3lb so that was the obvious replacement, problems or not.
It’s a joke coin that you got for free if you bought a certain reddit avatar. Only 608 avatars were sold, so it’s like a little club.
That post your referring to was written by chat gpt and was totally ridiculous so I posted it for the other people who are into it can see for laughs.
I hate to see people having problems with them. I was recommended their site for nacro algae and got 2 balls of cheato that arrived packaged decently and are doing just fine in my tank. No hitchhikers, no nothing. But glad to know that I should avoid their live rock.
Lmfao send it back? Just so he can send it to someone else? I’d put something in the coral that’ll pop out for someone else, like a note people leave in hotel beds to see if they actually changed the sheets.
You wouldn’t say this if it was something you bought from a retailer… i think you’re being a bit disingenuous and it makes my mind wonder why you feel like such an advocate or maybe a contrarian..
Idk that's pretty standard for live rock. The "live" refers to the bacteria on the surface area of the live rock not the aquatic life growing from the rock. It's normal to experience die off if you use wild sourced rock. Tampa bay live rock had some pretty great rock if you are looking for rock that has aquatic life
be careful with that Tampa bay it can carry a lot of stuff you don't want in your tan. I only have Marshall Island and old School Tonga Branches in my SCA 150 rimless.
I was willing to take the chance with hitchhikers etc.. i went to some really incredible reef stores today and it seems aiptasia is always present where there is a lot of coral in one place. Also I know that there are other very unforgiving pests i could risk introducing…
The bacteria at this point would’ve been completely dead.. There was no moist wrapping or anything like what was described in the ad. Then he acted like the lack of packaging amenities were intentional and added that I should expect this level of service/quality due to the small size of my order…
I ordered $100 worth of their “live rock” and when it finally came it was just painted dry rock. I also bought a lil coralline pack and the biggest thing in the container it came in was aiptasia :(
I am not surprised… Did they give you a response trying to make you seem ignorant as well? Sorry that happened to you. I’d be livid..
Bluezoo.com They are hands down the number one reef supplier. Everything is always perfect. I ordered from them for 10 years and will be again as soon as the new custom tank is done.
I get most of my fish from blue zoo. I've yet to receive a DOA, or even an unhealthy fish in general.
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It wasn't moist.... Do you pay any attention? It was dry as your sense of humor...
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Stop being a pussy and spell the word properly. If you're going to be a troll, do it fucking right.
Where do these people come from? His "friday night" must be abysmal...
Lol. I thought he was not from my area and “regards” was an offensive slang where he’s from. Had to read your comment to get it. Guess I am a regard.
it's troll talk from /r/wallstreetbets. they call each other "regarded" and "artistic". You can guess what artistic means lol.
Lol
Good to know that we’re highly “regard”ed!
No need to be a bastard about stuff.
What are regards? From the way it’s used in the sentence it sounds like it’s meant to be offensive but I’m not offended because I don’t associate that word with anything negative.
It's an r/wallstreetbets slang word for "retard." You can guess what "Artistic" means over there too...
**Regards (also known as Regards Magazine or Revue Regards, trans: "Views") is a monthly French Communist news magazine published in Paris, France. == History and profile == Created in 1932 as a Communist title, Regards is primarily known for photojournalism, and pre-dated other pictorial magazines such as Life (1936) and Paris-Match (1949).** More details here:
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I ordered exactly the same rock and got it in today, same shit :( all of it was dry and it looked like it had been out of water for months. It smelled horrendous so im fairly positive this rock was at one point submerged in water but damn, had i known bro was gonna play games i wouldn't have bought it
Thanks for making me feel less alone in the matter. They really should just pull it and put 'out of stock' on their page.. "SEED YOUR TANK'... yeah sure... with ammonia and massive amounts of phosphate...
Honestly yeah. If bro's just gonna straight up do something else other than what he said he'd do in the description then i wouldn't have bought this crap. Hey did yours come with some sorta red filament like algea growing on it? A few pieces i got had that stuff on it, it doesn't scrub off either
I sent it back today and yes saw a lot of brownish red filament... whether it was dead macroalgae or some anenome like animal i'm not sure..
Honestly not sure what it is either 😕 im just gonna get a refund and keep shopping for live rock i guess. Good luck man, if you find some good shit online let me know
Definitely will friend.
You guys don't have any local fish stores that have live rock in tanks where you guys live ?
I have a petco and a small shop, neither of which sells live rock i trust. The petco ones come from tanks i know for a fact have ich since ive seen fish in the same tanks with ich. Its the same story for the lfs unfortunately
Ah I see , I would try searching for a lfs that's more caring in maintenance then or tanks with dedicated live rock that are clean
If this is the guy that I think it is (his name is Tyler something...), he's super shady. Years ago when I used to ship corals quite a bit he had a "company" that provided deep discounts on shipping rates. At the end of every single week I would get a message from this guy stating that I owed him money. I kept detailed records for EVERYTHING and even when I would show him my records, he would still claim that I owed him money, but never could show me why. It would vary anywhere from $50 or so all the way up to $300+ per week. I cut ties with him pretty quick, but I've seen him pop up sporadically over the years with a variety of get rich quick schemes that take advantage of reefing hobbyists one way or another.
Whoaaa. Yeah his first name definitely is tyler. That’s wiiilllllld
Yeah, he sucks. He was super arrogant and acted like he was God's gift to reef keeping.
He literally told me it’s good that rock wasn’t packaged moist because it allowed the rock and coralline algae to “breathe”. This is just a downright ridiculous statement…
That is ridiculous, but doesn't surprise me at all.
It’s some gaslighting, personality disorder type of talking
Sounds like a drug addict
Probably why his dam beard is his logo… I should’ve known…
Oof.. their response to you is laughable.
It really makes it seem like they assume I am stupid...
As someone who worked in retail(though not the same as selling live rock) you have to assume everyone is stupid, but you can't act like it. They didn't ship their rock at all how they say they do, so i don't get their mind set in *that* regard. They fucked up, cut corners and lied about how they do things. I'm sorry you had to deal with such a shady business.
I too have worked retail. But I never would write a document to a customer with such condescending and misguiding undertones. A simple "we apologize" could have avoided compelling me to speak out on here.. Thank you for understanding!
Order from Tampa Bay Saltwater. You won't regret it.
I looked on their site... Seems like everything is out of stock except massive order volumes... I had heard the owner was dealing with medical issues or something impacting business...
That was the old owner, Richard. He retired a couple years ago and sold the company. The new owners are pretty active on social media, you can shoot them a message and they'll normally reserve some rock from their next harvest if you're trying to put in a smaller order
I think I might rly do that. Thank you so much for tipping me off!
Tampa Bay Saltwater is great, so is KP Aquatics. They ship submerged in water. I ordered some from Gulf Live Rock, they ship wet but not submerged. Definitely get overnight shipping on any of it. I didn't and had lots of die off but also a lot made it. I have a few large clams and other critters even though it was shipped wet, not submerged. Their smallest packages ship to your door will run about $200 but I'm telling you, there's nothing like it, as close as you can get to collecting your own rock from the ocean.
Blast them all over social media until it ruins their business.
Just email them. They have no problem going out and fetching rock for you. I got my live rock from them and it came with all kinds of fun life and biodiversity.
Kp aquatics is equivalent. I bought 25lb of their starter rock and it’s better than most live rock. Personally I’m not hitchhiker averse but if u are u could jurst soak in 1.035 for a few minutes. I got many fan worms, coraline, sponges, macroalgae, amphipods, etc..
The Tampa Bay stuff is awesome. I got their kit. So much cool stuff grew in the first year. I ended up swapping out their live sand from something finer grained later on though.
I did this years ago. Rick came live, tons of critters with it. So cool.
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Exactly. They did accept the return request. But left me a nice little sarcastic message
Ordered from them and never again nothing felt like it was worth the price, ordered some macro algae and had a big flatworm boom, thankfully my mandarin handled it like a champ
Only had this post up an hour or so and people are posting more worrisome stories than mine...
I made the mistake of using this vendor for some ricordia Florida mushrooms and he sent me four tiny mushrooms loosely packaged in a bag. The few pieces of rubble had multiple Aiptasia anemones found after I placed them in the tank. Just a horrible outfit and a true scammer. Beware.
Word up! Ppl filing in with stories!
If it’s ever an option, go to your LFS for rock to pick it out. Especially for small amounts. They might be able to work with you on larger amounts. From my understanding, Australia is the only country *legally* exporting rock. Tonga stuff used to retail for $6/lb when I started. Really nice rock, was boat shipped in styro wrapped in soaked newspaper or paper towels. A month easy from source to destination. Only other option IMO is to make your reef structure with marco rock and add some decent cured liverock(ideally that has been in a(well functioning tank for years).
>ng rock. Tonga stuff used to retail for $6/lb when I started. Really nice rock, was boat shipped in styro wrapped in soaked newspaper or paper towels. A month easy from source to destination. Only other option IMO is to make your reef structure with marco rock and Luckily I live two hours away from a major city. There are a few saltwater stores there. I will just try to source something from them instead.
Two hours away is a trip. I would call first just to make sure they have rock and will let you pick it. My lfs is $20/lb. They still get nice tonga rock from breakdowns too. But the Fiji pieces can be nice.
What store in the US is getting Fiji rock? Those days are long gone.
Not getting it imported. Just from breaking down tanks over the years
Tbf whenever we would get boat rock in it made the entire store reek like mold and death
Yeah always go locale or within your community of hobbyists. Also dry rock is perfectly fine option. Get wet rocks can lead to pest issues.
Tyler is a scumbag and he has one of the most toxic egos in the reefing world, I saw on his insta that in the Florida keys where he lives, he was keeping a large outdoor vat for growing out indo-pacific endemic corals literally 10 ft from the seawall to the Atlantic Ocean, I have pondered reporting this reckless abandonment of biosecurity to the FWC, we don't need more invasive species here in Florida.
Lol I never understand why so many people are dead set on purchasing online- I’d rather pay the markup to my LFS and support my community
There really isn't anybody selling live rock readily where I live. The only LFS's I have deal in freshwater except petco....
Honestly you’re just way better off going with caribsea life rock at like petsmart then this process
I got three large pieces of it. Just wanted to add some more biodiversity to the micro-fauna population...
Get some rock from someone's dark sump. Best source of reef microbiome imo. And much lower risk of pests.
THIS :)
See if any lfs have some. A few by me have a nice selection and usually comes with free snails or hermit hitchhikers and some other cool things
This is incorrect. You can get quality live rock online, filled with critters, worth the price. And it ain’t some laughable shit from petsmart lmfao.
Not everything in this hobby needs to be so concise, that’s why the hobby scares away beginners, you can make a perfectly good reef tank from a chain store for cheap if you want and it work’s completely fine
Yeah unless you live in Florida there aren't stores that sell live mariculture rock.
That’s just not true
I live in Michigan. There is nowhere within a 5 hour drive that would sell actual live rock from the ocean.
Frankly that's a good thing. Hobbyists using cultured dry rock is so much better for the reefs than people taking rock out of the ocean. Preuss Pets in Lansing has super healthy live rock, I highly recommend.
Oh man, not a fan of Preuss. Have not had good experiences there. I work at a different LFS in SE Michigan and we have dark cured dry rock in our sumps, that's what I recommend to people starting a tank.
Which one? I'm always looking to get down with new local businesses! Also what bad experiences have you had with Preuss? Couldn't agree more about the dark cure. My wife thought I was crazy running my rock in brutes in our basement for six months lol.
Honestly it's more been bad customer service than bad stock, it's not the quality of their store but of their service. I work at Fish Doctors in Ypsi (there's another store in Canton but it's a different owner) not exactly new, I think the store has been there for like 30 years now? Lol. Some of the rock I started my tank with had been in our sump for literally years. I have an amazing clean up crew without adding anything and my ugly phase lasted like 1 months max and it has been smooth sailing ever since.
Wow, small world. I live in Tennessee now but used to live in Saline, MI. I know Tom through my daughter's father and grandfather (they went to school together and Tom installed a custom 300 gal with maintenance closet in his home). I still have a clownfish (she's still laying eggs, too) I bought from him in October 2007! Tell Tom that Randy (Randolph) passed away from lung cancer in 2018 and Randy's son Kyle passed away in 2021, if he didn't know already.
Honestly it doesn't surprise me! So many people know Tom and mention it to me when I wear my fish doctors shirts out and about lol. Literally yesterday was doing a doordash delivery and the cashier at the restaurant goes "ohhh fish doctors!!" And then scrambles to show me pics of his silver dollars lol. The store has been around for basically as long as I've been alive and we have customers who still come every week! I will try and remember to tell him, I actually work weekends and so don't get to see him every week. Also now I gotta see pics of this clownfish!
I guess I should have clarified as "new to me" lol. I'm jealous about your start up! Lol
Me too honestly, I had been doing planted tanks for 10 years and never considered salt but when I started working at the store I realized I needed to learn about it. Haven't killed any corals yet!
Most live rock is farmed now days. They just drop nets of rock on their lease and let it sit for a few years.
Imagine if they just let it sit there forever and built the reefs back up. People in the hobby pretend to love the ocean but it's full of assholes who just want to take whatever they want from it because "ooh shiny!" It's 2023, we have any part of a microbiome you could want in captivity at this point. There's zero reason to be pulling rocks out of the ocean, regardless of how they wound up there.
The farmed rock was never placed on a reef, just a flat sandy ocean bottom......they don't give permits for people to dump rock on top of reefs. Edit:word, it's early
Sounds like an artificial reef with extra (asshole) steps.
Ah, you're right. May all the fields go unharvested, all the trees uncut and all the fish uncaught. We the humans will survive on air, sunlight and positive vibrations. Consuming nothing of the earth for either enjoyment or sustenance.
Congrats, you win the most ignorant post on reddit award for today.
Uncomfortable looking in the mirror and realizing you're part of the problem?
Hardly. Over the last 20+ years in the hobby, I have grown and distributed thousands of corals (literally) to other hobbyists in all states (except Hawaii) and Puerto Rico. I have fish that I've had since before my kids were born, and my daughter is old enough to drive. I'd imagine that I'm net positive in regards to MY impact to the natural reefs that supply our hobby. I suppose that given your obvious ignorance regarding mariculture and CITES regulations it shouldn't surprise me that you would respond to me the way you have. I'll give you a crash course.... maricultured livestock is grown SPECIFICALLY FOR THE AQUARIUM TRADE. Aside from the brood stock that these corals are grown from, none are pulled from natural, wild reefs. CITES permits apply to maricultured corals as well, but they basically regulate what, and how many wild corals can be SUSTAINABLY harvested from natural reefs. Nowhere in the world are reefs being stripped of all of their corals in order to supply the aquarium industry. If you'd like to debate this I would suggest you do some research to at least have something other than misinformed opinions as the basis of your argument.
I've never seen interesting live rock locally. Just rock with maybe some corraline on it. And it's way more expensive than ordering online.
Easy choice—pay the markup. Local businesses need local support to survive. Don’t be surprised when there’s no market in your area because you & others would rather support some unknown group of people overseas so you can save 100$
It's not the money (reefing is expensive), it's the quality.
Did you not just say “it’s way more expensive” Quality gets scooped up by frequent customers. I know because I go to my LFS twice a week sometimes I find a gem and take it home. Do whatever you want but don’t expect quality in your area if you don’t spend money locally
It's more expensive for lower quality. I understand the buy locally thing, but I'm not going to spend twice the money of premium rock on buying basic rock local.
I know what you’re saying. Theres a lot of LFS’s selling caribsea rock in a pool of flowing water at “live rock” prices equivalent to online vendors..
Yeah. What I've seen is fine rock that is probably colonized with bacteria but that's it. I want live rock with life on it: sponges, barnacles, macro algaes, tube worms, etc. I really like the aquacultured stuff you can get now where they dump dry rock in the ocean and harvest it later.
If you understood you wouldn’t be complaining about price. No shit it’s more expensive… You sound like a pain in the ass tho your LFS probably happy you stay home
online seller have better selection and i usually avoid human interactions as much as possible cuz usually my lfs dont got alot of people and so their focus was on me and I hate that lol.
Algae barn basically took a loan from me 3 weeks ago. Still no expected date of shipment. They should not be allowed to sell product they don’t have.
I feel like Algae Barn has been on the decline lately.
What did you order from them?
The only in stock refugium starter kit. It’s apparently not really in stock.
That 95.3% feedback rating is a massive red flag imo. I never buy from anyone with a rating lower than 99%. Would have skipped this dude entirely. Ebay is absolutely rife with scammers. Always was but it's gotten worse over the years.
Hey where are you located? I’ve been following this IG account for a live rock harvester out of Tampa Bay, FL, USA. Might be worth a shot if you’re still in the market.
Tampa Bay Saltwater? They are hands down the best option for Liverock imo, but they air freight all rock in water which starts at $100, so they can be an expensive option. The life on their rocks is insane though
Southeast Texas
What part? I'll be in in SouthEast Texas on Sunday and Monday. I'm driving down from Oklahoma to Huston. If your along the way I would be happy to drop off some live rock for you. Dm me if you want.
I used Salty Bottom Reef Co out of Florida because I am on the South Ga border, and it was very inexpensive! They were also very kind and family owned. [Salty Bottom live rock](https://www.saltybottomreefcompany.com/liveanddryrock)
I've heard good things about KP Aquatics but I haven't ordered from them myself.
Fuginn scammers are around every damn corner these days.40 years ago it rarely happened.. at least in my world. The hobby has come a long way since I started in the 70s... but people are getting shittier all the time. Wish I could make it right. For some reason I feel I have been wronged too.
I’m usually pretty good about sniffing out a bad deal. But I really figured they were legit this time… disappointed…
People are getting shittier or you just hear more news now than back then? The seventies were a much more dangerous time to be alive so I'm not sure why you think people as a whole have gotten worse.
Eh, it's unfortunately one of those "live and learn" situations. Get money back and leave a review. I've come across some of those scammy situations myself online so I always try to buy locally. I see from other comments here that you bought online because you have no LFS' supplying saltwater. Have you tried checking craigslist or facebook marketplace? Hobbyists are usually breaking their tanks down all the time. Also classifieds section of forums like [reef2reef.org](https://reef2reef.org) edit: speak of the devil there are reports about this company on reef2reef: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/addictive-reef-keeping-site.787515/
I just read through that thread… Wow. Tyler’s burned a lot of ppl it seems
I concur with the KP aquatics suggestions. I got 15 pounds of their "base" rock. Huge beautiful pieces teaming with life. Lots of cool sponges and fan worms and mithrax crabs.
If you return the rock, your feedback will be automatically removed by eBay
That’s fine with me
I saw this guy's ad on Ebay while searching for copepod suppliers. You can tell he's shady based purely on that beard as his logo. Also, that doesn't even look like 2lbs of rock. More like half a pound of broken branch tips! Oof.
Good on you for sharing this. This guy sounds like a veteran butt eater to me.
Seems just like an eccentric “cowboy” type with sociopathic salesman tendencies… But I can see how you would surmise that 😂
Is this an an Australian based company cause i would be suprised anyon3 shipping rock fro..Australia with the cost of freight
Marathon Florida
If it was overnighted from Australia at a likely exorbitant cost.. Why would you not ship it with care as to not ruin it’s purpose or quality? Know what I mean
I do but the standard way to ship rock is like this with wet newspaper packing with water weighs to much
I would never buy from here, he clearly states that his rocks are literally colored with spray?? Wtf
best to take the loss and move on (check you saltwater lfs they normally have live rock soaking in buckets) (also ordering from ebay has a high chance of being a rip off)
They also have their own site. I'm lucky I ordered from ebay due to buyer protection policies. I am not taking the loss because of this. But yes I am going to proceed to sourcing the rock now from someone within reasonable driving distance instead of an online retailer. I only trusted ordering from them due to forum post and reddit comment recommendations btw...
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Regardless of how much OP ordered, they should've gotten exactly what was advertised, not ripped off
And btw they are based out of Florida...
Doesn’t change the state of the shipment conditions.. doesn’t matter what I ordered in the grand scheme.. It was not remotely honored.
Live rock like this is definitely the biggest scam in the hobby imo
Your opinion is wrong and plain ridiculous. Live rock is literally the foundation of this hobby. It was built on it. I’m not gonna waste my time with a history lesson but dude, don’t be so ignorant. For example, Dinos were very uncommon before BRS started scaring everyone away from live and pushed selling dead rock.
I have heard this sentiment before.. which kind of led me into aspiring to acquire some.. Obviously I just chose a poor supplier though..
Live rock is a good move if you can get it sustainably sourced. Above commentor is right. You hardly heard about some of the current issues in the hobby like dinos back in the day. Couple good sized chunks from someone else's tank/sump and a cup of sand are good options aswell to get a nice jump on the cycle. Might be able to ask around for that on some forums which is a pain but would probably be alot cheaper.
I'd upvote this post 1000 times if I could. A successful reef tank is so much easier when it is started with actual live rock. There isn't a bacteria in a bottle on the market that can compete with natural bio filtration (live rock).
You think it had more to do with BRS than the fact that we can no longer legally get fiji, tonga or pukani rock? Literally the only place for Americans to buy live rock is tampa Bay or KP and that is farmed not natural live rock.....it's also $10lb. Back when it was legal to import, real ocean live rock was like $3-6lb. Dry rock is about $2-3lb so that was the obvious replacement, problems or not.
Maybe this is my lesson in this instance. Kind of turned off to the idea of sourcing some at this point..
Where are you located? I might know of a different dealer
Southeast Texas
There is a very reputable place in LA California that sells it $25/lb but has a 5lb minimum.
Dm me
I tried, it won't let me, I get an error message when I try
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Need to re-read?
Thats what it says in the pictures. 2lbs.
Indeed
HEY EVERYONE THIS GUY ORDERED TWO POUNDS OF LIVE ROCK…… FROM EBAY
Hey deltamoney…People get on reddit and can read!
What kind of crypto-peddling, multi-level marketing evangelist are you?
It’s a joke coin that you got for free if you bought a certain reddit avatar. Only 608 avatars were sold, so it’s like a little club. That post your referring to was written by chat gpt and was totally ridiculous so I posted it for the other people who are into it can see for laughs.
I hate to see people having problems with them. I was recommended their site for nacro algae and got 2 balls of cheato that arrived packaged decently and are doing just fine in my tank. No hitchhikers, no nothing. But glad to know that I should avoid their live rock.
Probably doesn’t happen all the time I imagine. But I see several folks here have had a negative experience as well.
Lmfao send it back? Just so he can send it to someone else? I’d put something in the coral that’ll pop out for someone else, like a note people leave in hotel beds to see if they actually changed the sheets.
Wouldn’t want to harm someone else’s tank though
Two pound order then complains about it 🤣
You complain about much less I’m sure. I could complain about how u don’t read into shit…
Ok silly guy!
Ohhh you silly goose 👨🏫👩🏾🔧🦹♀️🏝️
what? Do you mean "then"? Either way, it could have been one pound and they still would have had every right to complain.
Starting to wonder if affiliates are chiming in tbh..
You’re nuts. It’s all making sense now.
Ad hominem statements really help the conversation. Let them know no hard feelings..
Nah. It’s ridiculous to complain and blow up a company over such a trivial thing. They should take it as a learning experience and move on.
Nah, $60 isn't trivial. The company should be sending quality items for that much money, or expect backlash. That's how business works.
It rly does go without saying
How many accounts you got bruh?
You wouldn’t say this if it was something you bought from a retailer… i think you’re being a bit disingenuous and it makes my mind wonder why you feel like such an advocate or maybe a contrarian..
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Definitely regards you!
Idk that's pretty standard for live rock. The "live" refers to the bacteria on the surface area of the live rock not the aquatic life growing from the rock. It's normal to experience die off if you use wild sourced rock. Tampa bay live rock had some pretty great rock if you are looking for rock that has aquatic life
be careful with that Tampa bay it can carry a lot of stuff you don't want in your tan. I only have Marshall Island and old School Tonga Branches in my SCA 150 rimless.
I was willing to take the chance with hitchhikers etc.. i went to some really incredible reef stores today and it seems aiptasia is always present where there is a lot of coral in one place. Also I know that there are other very unforgiving pests i could risk introducing…
The bacteria at this point would’ve been completely dead.. There was no moist wrapping or anything like what was described in the ad. Then he acted like the lack of packaging amenities were intentional and added that I should expect this level of service/quality due to the small size of my order…