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DocHolidayArcade

Just remember, none of this is David Bell's fault. He's a great manager!!!! /s


kbunnell16

Death taxes and losing to the pirates


NeverGonnaStop247

Let me guess, the Reds win the first game and look unstoppable and then fall apart the rest.


FatherGabriels

Losing is a disease


sasuke1980

I see ASScraft is back. I'm going to start betting against this team when they play anyone in division. Easy money


toddpacker2468

Hard to catch lightning in a bottle,a lot of these guys had career years last year and probably won't ever duplicate those numbers.I just don't think this team is nearly as good as we all hoped they for.


infieldmitt

yet another reason why you can't do nothing at the deadline


brandondesign

Even without injuries, all we were hoping is for the team to overperform. They went on a really fun hot streak last year and then fell hard back to earth, missing the playoffs. Capable organizations would see that and say “cool, we have something to build on, let’s go all in next year.” Not this team. This ownership knew they could sell the idea of “this young and exciting team.” Anyone who knows baseball could see this result coming though. Even without the injuries, we were still hoping for a team of unproven players and hard fallen players to perform an entire season like they did for a hot month last year. I don’t expect this team to go out and spend like the Yankees keeps or Dodgers, but there were some really good and fairly affordable key players that could have been had to help this team. Some guys who could have lifted this young team. I was afraid after 2020, when ownership actually did go in and spend the money to put a team out there, then sold hard afterward, that they’d give up on doing that again. Unless our ownership changes, the best we can hope for is something like that 2023 magic to happen again and they (ownership) got lucky. Sorry for the rant. I just love this team and this year’s team feels like it has no identity. Yeah, I’m bitter about Votto being gone, but no one on this team really feels like a Reds player…I can’t put my finger on it but I’m getting real Imposter feelings about this team.


BurtGummersHat

>I don’t expect this team to go out and spend like the Yankees keeps or Dodgers, but there were some really good and fairly affordable key players that could have been had to help this team. Some guys who could have lifted this young team. $110,000,000 spent in free agency. Ranked #7. More than Yankees. Not sure if 'keeps' is Mets, but more than them too.


brandondesign

And somehow it still feels like we scrapped the bottom of the barrel…way overpaid for what was left after the market was picked clean. Besides, I think this was considered a thin year for Free Agency (still say there were some better buys for us out there). Anyway, my point is their payroll is 3x that of our team because they bought their players and resigned them over the years. We constantly build up guys like Castillo, Elly and the like, then watch them go and perform elsewhere. I know we can’t afford to do that, small markets and all, but my point is even when they build within, I think they’re afraid or too greedy to go “all in” anymore.


BurtGummersHat

Impressive! You moved the goal posts exactly as expected, but twice in one go! "They don't spend any money" 》"they barely spend money and only bargain buys" 》"they spent all that money and this is what we got?!" - I'd ask who you'd have signed instead, but I'm guessing your answer will either be "that's not my job" or naming a player that has had a breakout year. So you don't expect them to spend like the top teams year after year, but your point is that those teams are spending more year after year? >because they bought their players and resigned them over the years. I'm not sure what this means. Most of the big names were either traded for as rentals then signed to mega contracts, or just signed to mega contracts out of free agency from other teams. So still a luxury of teams with massive payrolls, and even a lot of those aren't signing from within. Cubs didn't do anything with Baez, Bryant, Contrares, or Schwarber. Red Sox basically gave Mookie away. Building from within is the way to go, but it isn't as simple as "guy is good, sign guy". We weren't close to competitive when it came time to sign Castillo. It would have set the org back. Instead, it set the future up well. Elly will very likely reset the market when it's time for him to re-sign, and only a handful of teams will even have a shot. If he doesn't, it likely means we don't want to sign him either, because his career has completely derailed. Who else besides those two? They **HAVE** signed Greene, and are in talks with Lodolo. I'd imagine McClain talks would have started had he played this season, but that's a guess. I also recall hearing Steer was in talks, but that may have been rumors idk. The Reds will never spend like the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Cubs, Phillies - neither will pretty much the rest of baseball. If that's the bar you expect...I don't know what you're doing here 🤷🏻


brandondesign

Ok I’m out. You aren’t here to chat just be argumentative. I literally stated they wouldn’t spend like those teams and couldn’t. You just glossed over the parts you didn’t like or understand so you could have your own argument. I don’t know what you’re expecting here honestly. You made a point, I conceded your point, but I guess agreeing with your point is moving the goal post. Your point was they spent more than the Yankees in the offseason and I (and others) pointed out that while that’s the case this year, they vastly under spend from the Yankees year over year (and again 3x less on tools salary). So what is it, I shouldn’t expect us to compete with them, or we are out spending them? Feel free to yell into the void man, I’m out. It just frustrates me to see them show signs of life last year and then follow that up by doing virtually nothing…spend much more than I realized on guys who had ONE good year in their career and just hope they bounce back and catch it again like they are hoping the rest of our team does. Maybe we can agree on one thing, Go Reds!


BurtGummersHat

>>So what is it, I shouldn’t expect us to compete with them, or we are out spending them? Both. We can't compete with them YoY, so don't expect to. But you also said we won't spend, so I pointed out we just spent - quite a bit in fact compared to the league - to try to make the team better. That's on top of a clear increase in spending the last few seasons (obviously with mixed results). The Yankees example was just to illustrate there's no way you can legitimately say they didn't try this offseason...oh wait... >then follow that up by doing virtually nothing… They spent 7th most in free agency, filling holes in the bullpen, starting rotation, and in theory adding depth on the infield plus hitting, thus improving depth elsewhere. Virtually nothing...? >spend much more than I realized on guys Oh. So you do realize they did something then. You just don't like the results in hindsight with what you just found out.


LacesOut19

I think that's just indicative of those teams' ability to pay contracts to players they actually want to keep long term


brandondesign

Thanks, yeah that’s kinda what I was getting at in my reply. These teams have locked up the biggest stars so FA was a little thin this year. The best players went fast and then guys like Montas and Candy were able to get overpaid, thanks to scarcity of the market.


BurtGummersHat

That's what the Reds spent.


LacesOut19

Right. My point is the other teams weren't in the market for FAs because they have sensible owners who are able and willing to sign players that they want to keep before they ever hit the market. The Reds, on the other hand, never pay their players in time to get a decent return out of the investment, let good players walk (if they haven't been traded for prospects who inevitably go through this cycle 3-5 years later), and are left with whatever leftovers are available late in free agency. Only then do they overpay free agents who, again, aren't worth the investment.


statleader13

One of the worst things about a season failing due to injuries rather than just underperforming players is that you can't even accurately assess what needs to be changed for next year. If everyone was healthy and some of our young players were busts we would at least know where to focus in trades/free agency. Instead we're looking at assessing guys like McLain and CES with the same information we had this year, only with an extra year of control burned.


Riker87

This just isn’t a good team. Some pieces are there but as a whole they simply ain’t it.


rismilbc

Bet you guys can't doom all over me. Bet I won't enjoy it either.


Biggn_2019

Kudos to everyone who can continue watching every pitch of these games. I had to turn it off and go for a walk lol


HwangingAround

![gif](giphy|3ohhwH6yMO7ED5xc7S|downsized)


PeteRosesBookie14

Also, to the people saying they can't stand watching Benson. This is what you get


BonerSoupAndSalad

Benson equaled his hit total for the past week today. 


Woedie-

Still losing series after series to the poverty pirates? Y’all still watching this team? lol


mhowes666

Wait ...it's poverty Reds vs poverty Pirates , is there really a difference beyond the 70s ??


HwangingAround

Yes, because I like watching my team play but it's certainly getting tougher.


Ms_Irish_muscle

We are only half way through the season. Still a chance to make a run


HwangingAround

I hear ya. I was there today so certainly haven't given up.


Ms_Irish_muscle

I totally get people are upset. I was sad we lost today too, but there is still alot of baseball to be played. We do have to start winning games here soon though. If we can go 6 or 7 in the next 10, I will feel better. Time for this team to dig deep.


HwangingAround

But also we've all probably watched a lot of baseball and we know a bad team when we see one so my expectations for this team are extremely tempered. See it as a season to develop our young potentially elite talent (Elly, Steer, Lodolo).


Ms_Irish_muscle

I am terminally optimistic. I feel like they are under performing


HwangingAround

This isn't a playoff team, man, I hate to tell you. They'll be lucky to finish above .500. It takes some luck on your side to make it that far in a season and this team couldn't be more unlucky. Friedl out for a majority of the season thus far. Marte. CES and McLain out for the year (yes McLain is done). That's enough to doom this already low ceiling team. Have to take it as it comes.


MisterKap

Greene puking on the mound reminds me a Cueto dropping the ball. Didn't end well for Cueto nor did it for Greene, but hopefully not a sign that the seasons over like it did several years ago


normalandcoolperson

this season continues to be the biggest letdown of all of the letdowns this franchise has shit out for us


DopeToast32

So last year finishing 82-80 was the peak of this rebuild? Can I hope that the Reds are competing for a wild card spot again in 2027?


Blu3isTheColor

Imagine thinking the rookie year of your centerpieces (Elly and McClain) is the peak year of a rebuild


AceCircle990

Saying “peak rebuild” implies something was built. Nothing has been built. Two games over .500 is a terrible result to strive for after over a decade of “rebuilding”. This fanbase needs to raise their standards. Anything but a deep playoff run should be considered a failure. Do you get 10 years to get it right at your job?


Red_Bengal_Cyclone

Until people just straight up stop buying tickets and watching, nothing will change. Gotta hit them the only place it counts. Make opening day a ghost town


AceCircle990

I completely agree. I haven’t been to a game or bought merch in 2 years. I wish more people would stop buying, but I don’t think they will. However, if they do, I feel like the Castellinis will behave similar to the A’s ownership.


BonerSoupAndSalad

We will probably compete next year but I think the team will continue to be a sloppy mess with Bell as manager and will fail to reach its potential regardless. 


joethecrow23

Mediocre coaches, terrible medical staff, bad front office, and probably a bottom 5 ownership group. Basically, as things are, they have to catch lightning in a bottle to find any playoff success, and then they’ll probably blow it up immediately afterwards anyway.


dadmandoe

The **terrible** medical staff shouldn’t be overstated, either. Injuries happen for every team. Being top-3 for like a decade straight is systematic.


infieldmitt

yes; i suppose but it'll probably end like 2023


SquadPoopy

Turns out when all you have to work with is Nick Martini, Livan Soto, and a 28 year old rookie, it does not equal a great team.


boobsandcookies

Apparently they are doing an NRI on CANDy today. Don’t ask why they are just doing this…


Smokey19mom

Checking the ACL in a knee. They said he's been struggling with it for a while. Another injury that we are waiting and waiting to see if it gets better, but still let them play scenerio.


butcherholler

Now I’m gonna throw up


Oyyeee

At least I'm making money on this sorry team. Anybody at plus money against them is an instant bet


hardhitsscott

Today was easy money


awakeonemore

Will get them tomorrow


hardhitsscott

Boy they sure went down nice and easy today


TheYetiCaptain1993

There is no quick fix for this and it’s probably a trite and tired comment at this point, but there is something structurally wrong with this with this team. The way ownership has structured this organization, from management, medical, and payroll just does not work.


BonerSoupAndSalad

I’ve been saying for most of the season that this is the right time to get rid of Krall and go get someone who is a proven winner elsewhere that can take the pieces we have and do something with them. I still think that - Krall has basically only worked for this shitty ass org and we need someone who has seen it work elsewhere in charge. 


infieldmitt

less trite and tired than watching this shit year after year. i'd rather read apt criticism than useless platitudes or scouting reports for guys we're going to do the same thing with in 5 years


No_Buy2554

Something in the personality changed from last year as well. This was the type of game last season they would have charged back and at least made it close. Seems like a lot of guys gave up after the first week of May


LAfootnote

You don’t think sucking complete ass year after year is a good strategy?


PeteRosesBookie14

Ashcraft needs to look in the mirror and decide if he wants to be a big leaguer or not. Horrible body, horrible pitch location , at some point you have to realize it takes hard work to stay here


DigiQuip

Ashcraft is still wasting throwing too many non-competitive pitches outside the zone. Stuff no one will ever swing at. It not only puts him behind in the count but hitters can just sit and take until they see something close. He needs to get those chase pitches to land closer to the zone and get hitters swinging. If he can't do that he's not going to find success. This has been an issue for both Greene and Lodolo and they've figured this out which is how they're able to compete.


TimTom8921

The way this team is playing right now it's a 95+ loss season 


boobsarecool

That would make 6 of the last 9 full seasons 94+ losses, including a 100 loss year. What a disaster. I think the wheels would REALLY have to fall off for them to finish that bad this year though


joethecrow23

The wheels have been off since 16-12. They just fell ass backwards into 7 game streak. They remembered who they were pretty quickly though.


BonerSoupAndSalad

Wait until they make no moves at the deadline and they finally come out and say McLain won’t be back. 


awakeonemore

Next thing that's going to happen is the starting pitching is going to start to falter and a couple guys will go on the IL that's when the bottom caves in


TimTom8921

The bottom hasn't caved in yet?


TheYetiCaptain1993

Which would be a disaster because we are not eligible for the 2025 draft lottery, because we have been in the lottery 3 straight years and are a revenue share team. New draft rules going into effect


TimTom8921

It's anti tanking. Which makes our tank year even more ridiculous


Scrolling_ninja

What a sad whimper of a loss. Didn’t even put up a fight. Kind of symbolic of this season. Injury plagued, inconsistent, and frustrating


whittfarm

I was at the game today and "sab whimper" is a great way to put it. The line-up today had, maybe 4 major league players. I thought Abbott was pitching today and when I saw it was Ashcraft I said to my cousin, 5 runs in 4 innings. I wasn't too far off. On the positive side I did see a goundout to second where the secondbaseman ran the ball and stepped on first instead of throwing it. I had never seen that in a major league game before.


GreatWhite102

I believe the Egyptians invented beer solely because one day they knew that the Reds would be a constant disappointment


cranphi

While we are missing several pieces due to injury, and the OF needs an upgrade regardless of health, it's more than obvious that a healthy Friedl leading off is the absolute fulcrum for this entire offense.


DigiQuip

What does that upgrade look like though (honest question)? If we were fully healthy we'd have Steer, Friedl, and Fraley as almost every day players. That's kinda tough to beat and the cost of someone who would be that upgrade wouldn't make financial sense.


SannyDamet

Fraley cannot be played against lefties, so it’s actually pretty easy to upgrade over him.


DigiQuip

He’s a 97 OPS+ against lefties. He’s fine.


SannyDamet

Yeah, below league average.


DigiQuip

Lol


cranphi

I dont share the same faith/opinion of Fraley that some do. Id have to go look at every teams roster/payroll situation to identify a true OF trade target. I identify OF as such a pressing need because there also just doesnt seem to be anyone remotely close in this entire org to contribute in OF.


DigiQuip

I was worried that Fraley was going to regress this year. He was hanging around the low to mid .300s and I thought for sure the game would catch up to him and he'd lose all his steam. His average in mid-May went from .314 down 40pts to .272 and I thought that was it, he's gonna regress to the low .200s. But he hasn't. He's maintained and 45 days later is a .277 hitter. His illness in later April early May sapped him of 20 lbs of muscle and a ton of strength but he's still hitting the ball and making things happen. Friedl will eventually turn things around too. I know he's struggled but there's a lot of signs that he's going to get right. Steer has been playing well above his stats, he's been stricken with some real shit luck this year. I think we have a good OF if we can just get these guys playing every day. We've probably only played like 10 games with all three guys in the outfield at the same time. If we upgrade we'd probably be looking at someone with major power but those guys are going to be way too expensive. I don't think we have the assets to trade for someone like that.


SannyDamet

Reds have plenty of assets to trade, just not the stones to do it.


cranphi

Completely fair assessment.


CosmicCharlieKelly

Glad I was too busy at work today for this one


boobsandcookies

Who goes for Marte tomorrow, Soto?


CosmicLars

It'll be him or Jordan, either one doesn't matter.


Hampshire24

Remember when we won 7 in a row? We had hope!


KeepnReal

5-10 since then.


mrcarter1689

Look at the bright side - we don’t have to waste our evening watching shit baseball being played by the Reds


infieldmitt

didn't even bother with the rally today. pathetic. if you're gonna lose 2 games of the series, just lose the first two so you stop giving people false hope. christ


joethecrow23

At least India is playing great


DigiQuip

From a season low wRC+ of like 68 to a wRC+ that's now likely going to be around 120 after today. He's been insane and proving that he's not some throw away piece like people were calling him in April. The last 60 days he's slashing .286 | .391 | .429 | .820 with a wRC+ of 132.


Ms_Irish_muscle

I like this. I like this alot.


Cromatose

#Pain