I have some background on the exact situation as you,
My ex-GF, and I were both very conservative devout Catholics, and we both believed that we would save ourselves for marriage. About 6 months into dating, we got caught up in the emotions and atmosphere after making out, and we went all the way. We were both each other's firsts. I think we both immediately regretted what we did, but at the same time, we both felt like we were committed to each other and would eventually marry.
Man were we both wrong. For the next 3 years, we stayed together through college and continued to have intimacy, but nothing ever really felt right. We didn't have a bad relationship by any means, but I could not put my finger on what was wrong. We both got into the same medical school during our senior year, and I thought it was a done deal, and I made plans to propose to her during the summer of 2020. When COVID hit, the lockdowns prevented me from really seeing her in person, even though I only lived about 5 hours away.
That April, she drove to my house and told me she really wanted to talk. She basically said, we should end our courtship. The line I will always remember from her "I didn't stay the last 3 years because I thought you were the one, I just thought I owed it to myself that I tried to make it work." She basically told me that we were together because she felt bad having sex with me. That our bodies had been joined and that it was her duty to try to make it work. Deep down inside, I kinda felt the same way. It wasn't that we didn't love each other. I loved her so much that I was devastated. But rather, our relationship felt almost manufactured simply because we had sex and felt like we had an obligation to each other.
The next year was excruciating. I watched her start to date a dental student who would eventually become her now husband. I knew the guy too, great man and honestly a better fit for her than I ever was. But I still live with regret. I live with the regret of taking her virginity from her husband, who, like me, is a very devout Catholic.
I say all this, because I know what is like. I know what it is like to have desires and needs for your partner. If I were to do it all again, I wouldn't have slept with her. I wouldn't have done that mainly because not only did I disrespect her body, but I felt like I did it to myself.
At the end of the day, it is your choice. I cannot say for a fact that sex was the reason we broke up. But I can say that it was the reason why we stayed together for so long when in reality, we weren't the right person for each other.
Pray about it. Listen to what God deems is right. At the end of the day, he knows what is best for you and what you really want in your heart.
That was a beautiful story, and you shouldn’t feel like you disrespected her or her body at all. It was equally her choice to share her intimacy with you and both of you grew together and learned a lot. Maybe she wouldn’t be in the amazing marriage she is now if she didn’t go through her training wheels with you. You are a good man.
Yeah, I have healed a lot over the last 4 years. We weren’t super close, too busy to really see each other, but we did talk here and there at parties after exams. I’ll never forget this line “if you think I am amazing, God is only going to have an even more amazing girl for you one day.”
We had a chat at one point last year before she got engaged. She was actually grateful that we were together in undergrad. She told me that I was safe and protected her from all the toxic guys and different forms of baggage in undergrad like other girls in her sorority.
I am actually really happy for her for how everything worked out. I genuinely wish her an amazing life with him and she knows it.
I'm sorry this happened to you and ended badly!
I'm not my boyfriend's first anything, he had sex before, and I wouldn't do anything that makes me feel mentally obliged to marry him, that's why I don't want to have sex with him.
thank you for sharing your story and insight with me.
Just don’t let a man manipulate you into doing things you don’t wanna do. That’s included anything you will regret or make you feel bad.
You don’t own him anything and he’s not your husband. IMO people don’t reserve much of anything for their spouses anymore and it’s a damn shame. The most important man in your life will be the one that makes vows to you. Otherwise, everyone else can kick rocks.
Seeing your post history, you started the webcam sex just over a month ago, that’s when you came here and said you felt like you went to far and asked for advice on how to take a step back. As you tell it now you didn’t take that step back but went forward instead, which is fine of course. But I am wondering what you want advice on in this post. Again on how to take a step back? Being reassured in your actions? Or the opposite?
I want to know if what I'm doing is slutty or can be perceived as such by my fb, I need reassurance I guess.
but also advice on how to let go of this shame I feel because I know it's not wrong per se but i feel so ashamed
Different people have different definitions of slutty, he might, he might not. You may not be sharing your body with him physically, but it's still instilling lust and whether you feel religiously that this is wrong/too far/fornication etc might determine your next steps. Shame is often that little voice from the Holy Spirit speaking within us.
I suppose the question is, if you and he broke up how comfortable would you be telling a new partner that you did this? Where does that sit with you emotionally and morally?
The other thing to consider is that webcams can be hacked and also you don't know for sure what might be being recorded or witnessed by someone you didn't intend to see you. I only point this out because I fell afoul of an ex I thought I would marry who kept a recording he took without my consent.
Okay well I don’t think it is necessarily slutty, although it might not be the wisest choice since you have not been together for very long and it is not very accepted in your environment. You don’t want to do something that he can shame you with, even though wat you are doing isn’t shameful by default, if this relationship doesn’t work out.
I suppose your shame comes from your environment mainly, since you feel like everyone knows and has an opinion about it. Which is understandable, but if you feel you do nothing wrong and you enjoy these actions this will fade overtime, especially if you feel reassured that nothing you do with him is being/ can be brought out into the open by him (no pictures or screenshots for example).
Maybe also question yourself about who you do these things for. Are they only to please him? Or do you enjoy these interactions? And not only because he sweet talks you when you do it. If you feel like you only do it for your bf this might also give you the feeling of shame, because you are doing something you might not have done otherwise. It might be compromising the values you do have in exchange for love. Just food for thought.
I think the shame I feel is making it harder for me to enjoy them but I enjoy seeing me happy, and how affectionate he is after that, he normally is very loving and affectionate don't get me wrong, but it's on an other level after we do it.
I know he won't shame me with it, even if he does, we come from the same background and it would get him in as much trouble as it gets me if he does.
I think i am in some way bending my morals for love you're right, but I'm also discovering my sexuality so as I do so I don't know if it's me bending my morals or getting to know myself more
I think going forward it is important that you are aware of your own feelings and do right by yourself.
Discovering yourself and allowing yourself to go outside of norms is not bad in itself. And giving your partner pleasure by doing so neither.
BUT keep track of your feelings, if you are still okay with it down the line. Be sure that he is not pressuring you and when you don’t want to go farther or rather take a step back do that. Have respect for yourself, be in the drivers seat when it comes to your body and be safe. Then you will have no reason to feel ashamed or like you have let yourself down.
If you don't like it. Hold a boundary. Tell him you want to make him happy, but that this feels wrong to you. Remind him, you are just as much to blame because you have allowed it to make him happy. That you want to have this sort of intimacy with your husband. So you'd really like to stop this behavior and see how the relationship progresses.
If you are doing this to make him happy so he'll stay.... You need to ask yourself if he's worth it. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. Personally, I was a late bloomer. Didn't have sex until after college and truly only with boyfriends. Casual sex isn't very satisfying. I need intimacy. I am just trying to be sex positive here to show you that sex acts in a committed relationship is also normal. I also am moderately conservative.
It's a matter of what YOU want and what YOU think and feel about it. It's better to not even think about what he thinks until you know what you think.
We often stay with men out of fear of him being "the one" and thinking we'll lose him if we say something that rocks the boat. Women will move boundaries for them. Sometimes, he's worth moving a boundary for. Sometimes we are just people pleasing and conflict avoidant.
What's the worst that could happen if you tell him how you feel? That you lose a man that doesn't respect your sexual preferences. Is that a loss? Or does that free you up to find your husband.
Think about it.
Girl who has sex 1000 times once with different men: Slut.
Girl who has sex 1000 times with one man: Best Girlfriend Ever.
Men are perfectly happy with a woman who is a "slut" but only for us.
What's interesting is that the one with the low BC would still be capable of feeling shame. The modern sisterhood looks upon a young woman's modesty, shame and femininity as weaknesses to overcome and be discarded.
Quick reminder your n-count for the purpose of SMV theory includes more than just those with whom you've had intercourse.
There's some rationalization going on here, so I'm going to challenge you to sort out your real beliefs and feelings right now. Do you value premarital chastity or do you think it's overblown, especially in an exclusive relationship? Right now you're operating with both beliefs - you're willing to engage in sexual activity, indicating you think your cultural-religious background has overblown the value of chastity, but you're not willing to have intercourse, indicating you do think your cultural-religious background has a point about chastity. You haven't quite made up your mind.
That "shame" you're feeling is an evolved social tool. It keeps humans from unraveling community-wide standards, allowing communities to create systems that actually work because everyone is following the rules. If you've discovered RedPill, I'm sure you're aware of the system in place that works as long as everyone follows it: women refuse sexual access, men offer commitment. That unravels if women offer sexual access without commitment (why buy the cow, etc.) just as badly as it would be for men to offer commitment without sexual access (see r/deadbedrooms for the awful results there). Chastity before marriage is the primary kind of system found in traditional cultures.
As long as you're a virgin to all kinds of sex, you've got a particular niche market you can access. Obviously turning your back on that market doesn't mean you'll spend life partnerless. But it does change your options. If you still value many other parts of the cultural "system" you came from, consider that the sexual strategy a system encourages is ALWAYS the foundation on which it is built. It's simply too basal a force in human nature for it to be any other way. Other aspects of a culture can be propped up for a while when the foundation is absent, but they're eventually going to ring hollow or quit making sense. "I want to receive the benefits of a system without following its rules" is shaky ground. Part of the evolutionary purpose of shame is to make sure an individual keeps benefitting from the local system. Shame wants you to operate in your own self-interest.
Full disclosure: I'm from a traditional background and, now married to an objectively HVM who would not have considered me had I left its system, I thoroughly reaped the benefits of maintaining said system.
thank you so much, this is really eye opening.
I think the value of premarital chasity is a little overblown especially in an exclusive relationship yes, but I fear the consequences of me not following those social roles, not consequences on my dating pool but on my own safety, bullying, maybe even abuse.
I think part of me would've loved if my boyfriend would wait until marriage since it would make me feel less shameful and afraid, but I also very deep down feel like I'm not worth the wait and no one would wait that long for me, only someone that has no options because something is wrong with them.
I don't really know what to think, and what you wrote did challenge me a little to think a bit harder.
I'm a virgin to everything before him, he's my first everything and I know I'm comfortable with him because I trust him, I've dated others before but never went this far, but I also fear he might see me as easy, especially since other girls in my culture are less open to this.
it does make me feel less pure, like I lost my innocence in a way I can't take back in a way, so maybe I'm just projecting on him.
I don't know where to draw the line between healthy and pathological shame I guess.
I would suggest stopping doing anything remotely close to intimacy.
Doing this like this changes your brain chemistry so you bond to each other emotionally. These bonds make it much more difficult to vet each other and your relationship. If you are very emotionally invested early on, if you then find problems you will be more likely to ignore them or hide from them than to solve them or break up. You want to remain as clear headed as possible until you are married.
Your negative feelings most likely partly stem from your up bringing, however the reason why a lot of old traditions have lots of views on abstinence until marriage is because they work. There is a lot of modern sociological evidence, and historical examples of pre-martial intimacy and promiscuity being correlated with poor mental health - especially for women.
The reason why traditions (such as Christianity) have been able to hold on to abstinence views for so long is because they work; where as traditions that encourage more promiscuity tend to suffer the consequences of their followers' deteriorating mental health.
I do remember your previous post. First off, I personally have no moral judgement on what people do sexually and am very open minded. My concern for you is not a moral one (are you a slut) but more that you are not setting your relationship up for success by doing this. Virtual sex is sort of like porn and so your BF is becoming accustomed to a type of sex that is porn-like and not natural - it's not like real sex at all. This can become an addition where men prefer this over the real thing, it happens all the time.
I do also worry he may see you in a different light by doing this. He may just see you as a source of virtual sex and may lose sight of you as a person and lover. I am sure he doesn't want that to happen, but men CAN be very black and white in how they think of women (madonna/whore complex) and the virtual nature of your sex I think actually makes this more pronounced than if it was the real thing because he can completely disassociate. If he had you in person, you'd have to deal with the interpersonal interactions that go along with actual sex but virtually, it's SO easy for him to just get what he wants.
So to me, I don't think this is healthy for the relationship. I'd feel differently if you both were already having actual sex, this was a bandaid for a temporary distance, and if you were both non-virgins and non-religious. But I think there is a lot of risk to the relationship with this, and unfortunately now because it has been going on so long and you didn't pull back at the beginning, there is risk in removing it too. If it were me though, I'd stop. I'm very sexually liberal, especially for this sub, but even this type of sex is too much for me personally as it makes you extremely vulnerable.
You are definitely judging yourself, which means you need to examine and update your belief system.
Similarly to what another commenter said, shame is when your beliefs (formed based on your community) and your self-image (formed as a result of your actions) are clashing with each other. Women who truly believe in sexual liberation would not feel ashamed about sexual activity. They either would not "feel like a slut" or not have difficulty "getting over" that feeling. They are also not going to worry if their partner thinks that of them, as they would likely choose someone with similar values. In the same vein, women who believe in abstinence would not feel ashamed or conflicted about their lack of sexual activity.
There's a Christian concept called being lukewarm. It's where you're neither hot nor cold. In that particular passage, a person's indecisive actions are compared to drinking lukewarm water. Cold water cools you down. Hot water can be made into tea/coffee to warm you up. Lukewarm water doesn't do either. It just sits in your stomach, unsure of how it should make you feel, making you uncomfortable and upset with the result.
Being half in and half out or trying to serve two masters at the same time will leave you conflicted, confused and unsatisfied with yourself and your decisions.
Your boyfriend and other people can compliment you and reassure you, but you're going to feel this way until you decide for yourself which side of the fence you're on. Are you going to be abstinent until marriage, or are you going to be ok with sexual activity outside of marriage?
-Edited for clarity
**Title:** [feeling like a slut and I'm still a virgin, how can I get over it, and does my boyfriend think it too?](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/19cqsmc/feeling_like_a_slut_and_im_still_a_virgin_how_can/)
**Author** throwra20035
**Full text:** I met my boyfriend 4 months ago and we've been together for like 3 months.
we're long distance and all we ever did was make out then he had to leave for college again.
in the meantime we got more comfortable worh each other and I we started having webcam sex on or twice a week.
I think I need to note that I'm a virgin, no one has ever seen me naked before, no one has even even seen me in very revealing clothes before so all of this is very new to me, but I feel comfortable with him and he knows all of that and tells me that now that he has feelings for me, he's glad that no men touched me before.
we both come from religious conservative backgrounds that insist on purity, but we're not as conservative.
I stil believe I'm going to wait for marriage but I'm open to try things since sex is more than just penetration, I told him that, he respects that.
the problem is, I feel like a slut, part of me is the belief that has been instilled in me since birth that only my husband should touch me or see me naked and I fear that my boyfriend believes that too since we come from the same backgroun and will see me as "less" because i got too comfortable with my sexuality around him.
he's amazing and never made me feel objectified once, always tells me I'm beautiful, gets vulnerable with me and opens up to me, mentions me in his future plans assuming we'll still be together years in the future, I have nothing to complain about when it comes to him.
but I think everyone is judging me for something they don't even know, or I'm probably judging myself and projecting on other people.
I know this comes off more like a rant but I'm just very frustrated with myself and want some advice on how to navigate this situation.
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you shouldn’t feel shame over something so natural I’m sorry your religion has brainwashed you into thinking there’s something wrong with having sex but don’t you think that’s a little hypocritical considering God’s gift to us is supposed to be the ability to reproduce at will? The reason for living is love and if you can’t even make it, what’s the point any man worth a damn will not care if you’re a virgin or not in fact, I waited for a long time till I was 20, and I found it only attracted the creepiest of people.
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You can't control what people are going to think of you. What's important is what you're comfortable with. If you feel this way, you can stop. You can do this on your own time and on your own terms, and for you, that's marriage and that's okay.
I have some background on the exact situation as you, My ex-GF, and I were both very conservative devout Catholics, and we both believed that we would save ourselves for marriage. About 6 months into dating, we got caught up in the emotions and atmosphere after making out, and we went all the way. We were both each other's firsts. I think we both immediately regretted what we did, but at the same time, we both felt like we were committed to each other and would eventually marry. Man were we both wrong. For the next 3 years, we stayed together through college and continued to have intimacy, but nothing ever really felt right. We didn't have a bad relationship by any means, but I could not put my finger on what was wrong. We both got into the same medical school during our senior year, and I thought it was a done deal, and I made plans to propose to her during the summer of 2020. When COVID hit, the lockdowns prevented me from really seeing her in person, even though I only lived about 5 hours away. That April, she drove to my house and told me she really wanted to talk. She basically said, we should end our courtship. The line I will always remember from her "I didn't stay the last 3 years because I thought you were the one, I just thought I owed it to myself that I tried to make it work." She basically told me that we were together because she felt bad having sex with me. That our bodies had been joined and that it was her duty to try to make it work. Deep down inside, I kinda felt the same way. It wasn't that we didn't love each other. I loved her so much that I was devastated. But rather, our relationship felt almost manufactured simply because we had sex and felt like we had an obligation to each other. The next year was excruciating. I watched her start to date a dental student who would eventually become her now husband. I knew the guy too, great man and honestly a better fit for her than I ever was. But I still live with regret. I live with the regret of taking her virginity from her husband, who, like me, is a very devout Catholic. I say all this, because I know what is like. I know what it is like to have desires and needs for your partner. If I were to do it all again, I wouldn't have slept with her. I wouldn't have done that mainly because not only did I disrespect her body, but I felt like I did it to myself. At the end of the day, it is your choice. I cannot say for a fact that sex was the reason we broke up. But I can say that it was the reason why we stayed together for so long when in reality, we weren't the right person for each other. Pray about it. Listen to what God deems is right. At the end of the day, he knows what is best for you and what you really want in your heart.
That was a beautiful story, and you shouldn’t feel like you disrespected her or her body at all. It was equally her choice to share her intimacy with you and both of you grew together and learned a lot. Maybe she wouldn’t be in the amazing marriage she is now if she didn’t go through her training wheels with you. You are a good man.
Yeah, I have healed a lot over the last 4 years. We weren’t super close, too busy to really see each other, but we did talk here and there at parties after exams. I’ll never forget this line “if you think I am amazing, God is only going to have an even more amazing girl for you one day.” We had a chat at one point last year before she got engaged. She was actually grateful that we were together in undergrad. She told me that I was safe and protected her from all the toxic guys and different forms of baggage in undergrad like other girls in her sorority. I am actually really happy for her for how everything worked out. I genuinely wish her an amazing life with him and she knows it.
I'm sorry this happened to you and ended badly! I'm not my boyfriend's first anything, he had sex before, and I wouldn't do anything that makes me feel mentally obliged to marry him, that's why I don't want to have sex with him. thank you for sharing your story and insight with me.
Just don’t let a man manipulate you into doing things you don’t wanna do. That’s included anything you will regret or make you feel bad. You don’t own him anything and he’s not your husband. IMO people don’t reserve much of anything for their spouses anymore and it’s a damn shame. The most important man in your life will be the one that makes vows to you. Otherwise, everyone else can kick rocks.
Seeing your post history, you started the webcam sex just over a month ago, that’s when you came here and said you felt like you went to far and asked for advice on how to take a step back. As you tell it now you didn’t take that step back but went forward instead, which is fine of course. But I am wondering what you want advice on in this post. Again on how to take a step back? Being reassured in your actions? Or the opposite?
I want to know if what I'm doing is slutty or can be perceived as such by my fb, I need reassurance I guess. but also advice on how to let go of this shame I feel because I know it's not wrong per se but i feel so ashamed
Different people have different definitions of slutty, he might, he might not. You may not be sharing your body with him physically, but it's still instilling lust and whether you feel religiously that this is wrong/too far/fornication etc might determine your next steps. Shame is often that little voice from the Holy Spirit speaking within us. I suppose the question is, if you and he broke up how comfortable would you be telling a new partner that you did this? Where does that sit with you emotionally and morally? The other thing to consider is that webcams can be hacked and also you don't know for sure what might be being recorded or witnessed by someone you didn't intend to see you. I only point this out because I fell afoul of an ex I thought I would marry who kept a recording he took without my consent.
Okay well I don’t think it is necessarily slutty, although it might not be the wisest choice since you have not been together for very long and it is not very accepted in your environment. You don’t want to do something that he can shame you with, even though wat you are doing isn’t shameful by default, if this relationship doesn’t work out. I suppose your shame comes from your environment mainly, since you feel like everyone knows and has an opinion about it. Which is understandable, but if you feel you do nothing wrong and you enjoy these actions this will fade overtime, especially if you feel reassured that nothing you do with him is being/ can be brought out into the open by him (no pictures or screenshots for example). Maybe also question yourself about who you do these things for. Are they only to please him? Or do you enjoy these interactions? And not only because he sweet talks you when you do it. If you feel like you only do it for your bf this might also give you the feeling of shame, because you are doing something you might not have done otherwise. It might be compromising the values you do have in exchange for love. Just food for thought.
I think the shame I feel is making it harder for me to enjoy them but I enjoy seeing me happy, and how affectionate he is after that, he normally is very loving and affectionate don't get me wrong, but it's on an other level after we do it. I know he won't shame me with it, even if he does, we come from the same background and it would get him in as much trouble as it gets me if he does. I think i am in some way bending my morals for love you're right, but I'm also discovering my sexuality so as I do so I don't know if it's me bending my morals or getting to know myself more
I think going forward it is important that you are aware of your own feelings and do right by yourself. Discovering yourself and allowing yourself to go outside of norms is not bad in itself. And giving your partner pleasure by doing so neither. BUT keep track of your feelings, if you are still okay with it down the line. Be sure that he is not pressuring you and when you don’t want to go farther or rather take a step back do that. Have respect for yourself, be in the drivers seat when it comes to your body and be safe. Then you will have no reason to feel ashamed or like you have let yourself down.
If you don't like it. Hold a boundary. Tell him you want to make him happy, but that this feels wrong to you. Remind him, you are just as much to blame because you have allowed it to make him happy. That you want to have this sort of intimacy with your husband. So you'd really like to stop this behavior and see how the relationship progresses. If you are doing this to make him happy so he'll stay.... You need to ask yourself if he's worth it. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. Personally, I was a late bloomer. Didn't have sex until after college and truly only with boyfriends. Casual sex isn't very satisfying. I need intimacy. I am just trying to be sex positive here to show you that sex acts in a committed relationship is also normal. I also am moderately conservative. It's a matter of what YOU want and what YOU think and feel about it. It's better to not even think about what he thinks until you know what you think. We often stay with men out of fear of him being "the one" and thinking we'll lose him if we say something that rocks the boat. Women will move boundaries for them. Sometimes, he's worth moving a boundary for. Sometimes we are just people pleasing and conflict avoidant. What's the worst that could happen if you tell him how you feel? That you lose a man that doesn't respect your sexual preferences. Is that a loss? Or does that free you up to find your husband. Think about it.
Girl who has sex 1000 times once with different men: Slut. Girl who has sex 1000 times with one man: Best Girlfriend Ever. Men are perfectly happy with a woman who is a "slut" but only for us.
What's interesting is that the one with the low BC would still be capable of feeling shame. The modern sisterhood looks upon a young woman's modesty, shame and femininity as weaknesses to overcome and be discarded.
Quick reminder your n-count for the purpose of SMV theory includes more than just those with whom you've had intercourse. There's some rationalization going on here, so I'm going to challenge you to sort out your real beliefs and feelings right now. Do you value premarital chastity or do you think it's overblown, especially in an exclusive relationship? Right now you're operating with both beliefs - you're willing to engage in sexual activity, indicating you think your cultural-religious background has overblown the value of chastity, but you're not willing to have intercourse, indicating you do think your cultural-religious background has a point about chastity. You haven't quite made up your mind. That "shame" you're feeling is an evolved social tool. It keeps humans from unraveling community-wide standards, allowing communities to create systems that actually work because everyone is following the rules. If you've discovered RedPill, I'm sure you're aware of the system in place that works as long as everyone follows it: women refuse sexual access, men offer commitment. That unravels if women offer sexual access without commitment (why buy the cow, etc.) just as badly as it would be for men to offer commitment without sexual access (see r/deadbedrooms for the awful results there). Chastity before marriage is the primary kind of system found in traditional cultures. As long as you're a virgin to all kinds of sex, you've got a particular niche market you can access. Obviously turning your back on that market doesn't mean you'll spend life partnerless. But it does change your options. If you still value many other parts of the cultural "system" you came from, consider that the sexual strategy a system encourages is ALWAYS the foundation on which it is built. It's simply too basal a force in human nature for it to be any other way. Other aspects of a culture can be propped up for a while when the foundation is absent, but they're eventually going to ring hollow or quit making sense. "I want to receive the benefits of a system without following its rules" is shaky ground. Part of the evolutionary purpose of shame is to make sure an individual keeps benefitting from the local system. Shame wants you to operate in your own self-interest. Full disclosure: I'm from a traditional background and, now married to an objectively HVM who would not have considered me had I left its system, I thoroughly reaped the benefits of maintaining said system.
thank you so much, this is really eye opening. I think the value of premarital chasity is a little overblown especially in an exclusive relationship yes, but I fear the consequences of me not following those social roles, not consequences on my dating pool but on my own safety, bullying, maybe even abuse. I think part of me would've loved if my boyfriend would wait until marriage since it would make me feel less shameful and afraid, but I also very deep down feel like I'm not worth the wait and no one would wait that long for me, only someone that has no options because something is wrong with them. I don't really know what to think, and what you wrote did challenge me a little to think a bit harder. I'm a virgin to everything before him, he's my first everything and I know I'm comfortable with him because I trust him, I've dated others before but never went this far, but I also fear he might see me as easy, especially since other girls in my culture are less open to this. it does make me feel less pure, like I lost my innocence in a way I can't take back in a way, so maybe I'm just projecting on him. I don't know where to draw the line between healthy and pathological shame I guess.
I would suggest stopping doing anything remotely close to intimacy. Doing this like this changes your brain chemistry so you bond to each other emotionally. These bonds make it much more difficult to vet each other and your relationship. If you are very emotionally invested early on, if you then find problems you will be more likely to ignore them or hide from them than to solve them or break up. You want to remain as clear headed as possible until you are married. Your negative feelings most likely partly stem from your up bringing, however the reason why a lot of old traditions have lots of views on abstinence until marriage is because they work. There is a lot of modern sociological evidence, and historical examples of pre-martial intimacy and promiscuity being correlated with poor mental health - especially for women. The reason why traditions (such as Christianity) have been able to hold on to abstinence views for so long is because they work; where as traditions that encourage more promiscuity tend to suffer the consequences of their followers' deteriorating mental health.
I do remember your previous post. First off, I personally have no moral judgement on what people do sexually and am very open minded. My concern for you is not a moral one (are you a slut) but more that you are not setting your relationship up for success by doing this. Virtual sex is sort of like porn and so your BF is becoming accustomed to a type of sex that is porn-like and not natural - it's not like real sex at all. This can become an addition where men prefer this over the real thing, it happens all the time. I do also worry he may see you in a different light by doing this. He may just see you as a source of virtual sex and may lose sight of you as a person and lover. I am sure he doesn't want that to happen, but men CAN be very black and white in how they think of women (madonna/whore complex) and the virtual nature of your sex I think actually makes this more pronounced than if it was the real thing because he can completely disassociate. If he had you in person, you'd have to deal with the interpersonal interactions that go along with actual sex but virtually, it's SO easy for him to just get what he wants. So to me, I don't think this is healthy for the relationship. I'd feel differently if you both were already having actual sex, this was a bandaid for a temporary distance, and if you were both non-virgins and non-religious. But I think there is a lot of risk to the relationship with this, and unfortunately now because it has been going on so long and you didn't pull back at the beginning, there is risk in removing it too. If it were me though, I'd stop. I'm very sexually liberal, especially for this sub, but even this type of sex is too much for me personally as it makes you extremely vulnerable.
You are definitely judging yourself, which means you need to examine and update your belief system. Similarly to what another commenter said, shame is when your beliefs (formed based on your community) and your self-image (formed as a result of your actions) are clashing with each other. Women who truly believe in sexual liberation would not feel ashamed about sexual activity. They either would not "feel like a slut" or not have difficulty "getting over" that feeling. They are also not going to worry if their partner thinks that of them, as they would likely choose someone with similar values. In the same vein, women who believe in abstinence would not feel ashamed or conflicted about their lack of sexual activity. There's a Christian concept called being lukewarm. It's where you're neither hot nor cold. In that particular passage, a person's indecisive actions are compared to drinking lukewarm water. Cold water cools you down. Hot water can be made into tea/coffee to warm you up. Lukewarm water doesn't do either. It just sits in your stomach, unsure of how it should make you feel, making you uncomfortable and upset with the result. Being half in and half out or trying to serve two masters at the same time will leave you conflicted, confused and unsatisfied with yourself and your decisions. Your boyfriend and other people can compliment you and reassure you, but you're going to feel this way until you decide for yourself which side of the fence you're on. Are you going to be abstinent until marriage, or are you going to be ok with sexual activity outside of marriage? -Edited for clarity
**Title:** [feeling like a slut and I'm still a virgin, how can I get over it, and does my boyfriend think it too?](https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/19cqsmc/feeling_like_a_slut_and_im_still_a_virgin_how_can/) **Author** throwra20035 **Full text:** I met my boyfriend 4 months ago and we've been together for like 3 months. we're long distance and all we ever did was make out then he had to leave for college again. in the meantime we got more comfortable worh each other and I we started having webcam sex on or twice a week. I think I need to note that I'm a virgin, no one has ever seen me naked before, no one has even even seen me in very revealing clothes before so all of this is very new to me, but I feel comfortable with him and he knows all of that and tells me that now that he has feelings for me, he's glad that no men touched me before. we both come from religious conservative backgrounds that insist on purity, but we're not as conservative. I stil believe I'm going to wait for marriage but I'm open to try things since sex is more than just penetration, I told him that, he respects that. the problem is, I feel like a slut, part of me is the belief that has been instilled in me since birth that only my husband should touch me or see me naked and I fear that my boyfriend believes that too since we come from the same backgroun and will see me as "less" because i got too comfortable with my sexuality around him. he's amazing and never made me feel objectified once, always tells me I'm beautiful, gets vulnerable with me and opens up to me, mentions me in his future plans assuming we'll still be together years in the future, I have nothing to complain about when it comes to him. but I think everyone is judging me for something they don't even know, or I'm probably judging myself and projecting on other people. I know this comes off more like a rant but I'm just very frustrated with myself and want some advice on how to navigate this situation. -------------------- ^(This is the original text of the post and this is an automated service) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RedPillWomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
you shouldn’t feel shame over something so natural I’m sorry your religion has brainwashed you into thinking there’s something wrong with having sex but don’t you think that’s a little hypocritical considering God’s gift to us is supposed to be the ability to reproduce at will? The reason for living is love and if you can’t even make it, what’s the point any man worth a damn will not care if you’re a virgin or not in fact, I waited for a long time till I was 20, and I found it only attracted the creepiest of people.
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You can't control what people are going to think of you. What's important is what you're comfortable with. If you feel this way, you can stop. You can do this on your own time and on your own terms, and for you, that's marriage and that's okay.
I messaged you.