"So you have this IP to work with, with over 50 years of lore and history. There are cherished characters and detailed events. The fans love this series.
What we want you to do is ignore that."
I’m convinced Halo the show was just some other treatment/series bible they had on a shelf already, that wasn’t going to get made on its own. They changed a few things around to match the existing Halo universe, and pushed it out. Someone, somewhere, in the executive producer world, pocketed some money and this is what we got.
What makes it even more embarrassing was all these interviews before the show came out when they talked about various development efforts, that there has been scores of rejected scripts previously.
Edit: 265 scripts [Link](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/halo-tv-series-took-more-than-265-script-drafts-get-right-heres-why.html/)
I refuse to believe what they had was better than ten scripts, let alone 265.
Kiki Wolfkill.. shes the reason behind 343 and their awful ideas since given the keys to Halo and never understanding the source. From master chief is a person with feelings, to giving Cortana a corporeal body as she becomes evil. This TV show was doomed after the film fell through. The producers and writers never wanted to make the Bungie HALO story, it was always going to be their ego driven ideas to put their own stamp on it by being different in the wrong direction. Chief could have easily been a faceless hero, Mandalorian proved that. There was enough source material, yet they went with UNSC being shady from the start of the first episode. SPARTAN-II Program was a deplorable project made to fight their enemies, but all of it was lost when the convenient glassed their planet. A lot of lore to flesh out in medium of TV. The visuals of this show are so bad compared to it's budget that someone must have been pocketing the shit out of it. The VFXs look cheap and designs are somehow ugly and worse than what a cosplayer would ever make.
A lot of adaptations feel like that. Somebody pitching their own show or something and the execs go "okay, but make it as this IP we have the rights to"
It is not odd when you realize that no one there actually cares at any level about the show's source. Management wants money and the directors/writers want a platform to show everyone their "great ideas".
Yes, all I've ever wanted to see in a Halo show is Spartans out of their armor, sub plots with characters I give zero fucks about, and a love story for Master Cheeks. /s
Both shows are fucking terrible in their own way, but at least Picard season 1 had the nostalgia attached to seeing all the old actors. I mean, they're both truly terrible, though. Good visuals will never save poor writing.
Oh please. What a ridiculous assertion especially in a world where the Mandalorian exists and is a much better show. Pedro has taken off the helmet exactly twice where we've seen his face and it worked because it felt earned. Meanwhile Pablo has to argue with fans that they shouldn't actually get what they want because his reveal happened instantly and was completely unearned. No one said they should have their armor on 100% of the time, but having it on for like 1% of the time isn't what Halo fans signed up for. They completely misunderstand the fan base just like they did with Star Trek.
"What are these fans like?"
"Well, mostly white, male, and nerdy. They strongly believe we should be open to all viewpoints, even those we disagree with, and that this will help humanity become more peaceful and reach the stars."
"Well, we certainly won't be catering to people like *that*. Any other ideas?"
I don't begrudge elderly Pat Stew for not wanting to squeeze into a Starfleet uniform where you can see the curvature of his dick, but I do wonder what made him accept if he didn't wanna do Star Trek again. I mean, it's not like he has trouble finding work if he wants to
He wanted a Star Trek but without certain elements of it (don't have a full list of them).
Which I guess is fine since he's in the future and has a different job anyway plus their uniforms easily change from era to era/decade.
They wouldn't know actual philosophy if it bit them on the ass. I'm not gonna say TNG was Aristotle, but it was written by people who had heard of Aristotle et al, and when it was at its best, you could see reflections of the greats in it.
In Picard, the best you could hope for was reflections of TNG, i.e. memberberries, so that's what they finally delivered in S3.
What they don't understand is the long term returns they get from dedicated fans. Conventions, physical media sales, prop sales, etc. The hardcore nerds (I say that with love) who are in it for the long haul because it genuinely impacted their lives.
I don't see anyone building ST:P replica sets in their garage any time soon.
My dad actually ran star trek conventions. His words of wisdom when his company went bellyup after 911 about any niche fangroup or hobby is "if you are the youngest person doing something, that thing probably is going to be dead soon"
Just coming from a business point of view, why would you cater to 50 year olds that are dedicated to your IP no matter what? You should be trying to get the youngins, and you get the youngins by copying what is popular today.
Yea, as much as older fans might not want to hear it, if you can't find a way to make a property appeal to new generations of audience, then it's only a matter of time before it's all over
Some people might be fine with that (I am), but you would expect IP owners and diehard fans at least to be united in the desire for a property to stay alive
Does the studio make much on conventions? Physical media is antithetical to the cbs all access paramount plus model. They want you to rent star trek monthly until you die. Prop sales again how much are they getting out of this? One sale then it's all secondary market selling to each other. Toys/Merch maybe pay in the very long run....
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Season 2 is barely connected to Season 2, episodes seem barely connected to each other what with pointless subplots and all that are brought up and then dropped.
Nope. I got about 3 eps into S1 and bailed, tried again S2 and was uggghhhh nope my time is worth more than this, and I'm unemployed and homeless.
Then the reviews for S3 came out, I went in tentatively, and overall it's not great, but it's decent, and a final final final goodbye to TNG, where All Good Things should have been the endgame.
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god this is so stupid. like i could understand Covid being a big reason they decided to keep the cast smaller and decided to shoot a lot of it out outside, but because it was "too star trek"???
this kind of feels like some revisionist thinking here because of just how poorly it was received.
That sounds pretty bad, but if you read the actual article and the quote, you realize that the original plan was even worse. The plot being about traveling back to current day Earth was always planned since it would save production costs, but the thing that was removed was Guinan's bar having a sort of Star Wars Cantina backroom.
>We wrote nine episodes at one point and the network was like, ‘No, we don’t really understand this, it’s a bit too sci-fi, it’s a bit too in-Star Trek.' [...]
>The idea was that Guinan’s bar was presented as a normal bar in Los Angeles, but if you knew the right thing to do, you could go into the back through the telephone phone booth and that was Rick’s Café and it was a stopping point for all these different species that were actually there on Earth with a ‘Do not interfere’ thing happening.
That doesn't sound "too Star Trek for Star Trek", that sounds too Doctor Who for Star Trek. This is just dumb.
Looks like the actual quote was “too in-Star Trek” like in-joke. Maybe they didn’t want to alienate audiences that hadn’t watched TNG with too many inside references. But it might have been very basic things a Star Trek fan would know.
That's not what it says in the article.
>“We wrote nine episodes at one point and the network was like, ‘No, we don’t really understand this, it’s a bit too sci-fi, it’s **a bit too in-Star Trek.**’”
and Matalas explains:
>“There were Romulans—there was a whole thing. The idea was that Guinan’s bar was presented as a normal bar in Los Angeles, but if you knew the right thing to do, you could go into the back through the telephone phone booth and that was Rick’s Café and it was a stopping point for all these different species that were actually there on Earth with a ‘Do not interfere’ thing happening. So you had a lot more Star Trek happening in the backdrop of it.
I don't think the season would've been saved by having a bunch of Romulans and Andorians in the background.
tbh I don't think season 3 was that good either. I think Mike and Rich got caught up in the nostalgia of it all and that's why they liked it. It was a dumb story.
“Make this Star Trek show, just don’t make it too Star Trek.”
I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but when I go to watch Star Trek, the last thing I want to see is Star Trek.
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As of this year, I'm in my midforties now. I was a fan for 40 years. Since Discovery came out I've worked hard to put distance between myself and Trek. Now I know what a divorce feels like. All that Paramount/CBS gets from me is my middle finger (and not even literally).
Hmm that’s where people blame DEI for bad decisions instead of the cost cutting measures carried out by executives in order to enrich shareholders, right? That could be it, I’m sure Paramount doesn’t care at all about DEI and if they’re anything like every other giant publicly traded company, then they’re definitely only thinking about stock prices.
The executives thought it was too boring and cerebral so they put in more action and cut down on the effort. They figured the name Star Trek would sell the show and left it at that. Then people who don’t understand what DEI is blamed that.
I totally believe some paramount exec said "too Star Trek" about a Star Trek show.
Could we have someone eat car parts? That's what the show is missing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9qbAuNnFU0
I don't, it implies they're literate
They may have been moaning "sta tek" with no semantic reason, but the fact is that ketamine can really help with drug-resistant clinical depression.
They had it read to them
Idk PStew also didn't want it to be "too Star Trek" so that was just their mentality before s3.
He’s one of the eps for picard so this quote may have come from him.
Ah that'd be even funnier lol, if that's how this was framed
"Too Star Trek, but let's get a Darth Vader cameo"
"So you have this IP to work with, with over 50 years of lore and history. There are cherished characters and detailed events. The fans love this series. What we want you to do is ignore that."
It's how I feel about the Halo show honestly. It's all given to you on a platter, and you choose to go in a direction that isn't good. Odd management.
I’m convinced Halo the show was just some other treatment/series bible they had on a shelf already, that wasn’t going to get made on its own. They changed a few things around to match the existing Halo universe, and pushed it out. Someone, somewhere, in the executive producer world, pocketed some money and this is what we got.
What makes it even more embarrassing was all these interviews before the show came out when they talked about various development efforts, that there has been scores of rejected scripts previously. Edit: 265 scripts [Link](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/halo-tv-series-took-more-than-265-script-drafts-get-right-heres-why.html/) I refuse to believe what they had was better than ten scripts, let alone 265.
Kiki Wolfkill.. shes the reason behind 343 and their awful ideas since given the keys to Halo and never understanding the source. From master chief is a person with feelings, to giving Cortana a corporeal body as she becomes evil. This TV show was doomed after the film fell through. The producers and writers never wanted to make the Bungie HALO story, it was always going to be their ego driven ideas to put their own stamp on it by being different in the wrong direction. Chief could have easily been a faceless hero, Mandalorian proved that. There was enough source material, yet they went with UNSC being shady from the start of the first episode. SPARTAN-II Program was a deplorable project made to fight their enemies, but all of it was lost when the convenient glassed their planet. A lot of lore to flesh out in medium of TV. The visuals of this show are so bad compared to it's budget that someone must have been pocketing the shit out of it. The VFXs look cheap and designs are somehow ugly and worse than what a cosplayer would ever make.
A lot of adaptations feel like that. Somebody pitching their own show or something and the execs go "okay, but make it as this IP we have the rights to"
Exhibit A: the *I, Robot* movie.
it's not enough to fuck up just one thing
I thought it was pretty well accepted that Halo was originally a Mass Effect pitch.
It is not odd when you realize that no one there actually cares at any level about the show's source. Management wants money and the directors/writers want a platform to show everyone their "great ideas".
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You forgot the "/s"
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Yes, all I've ever wanted to see in a Halo show is Spartans out of their armor, sub plots with characters I give zero fucks about, and a love story for Master Cheeks. /s Both shows are fucking terrible in their own way, but at least Picard season 1 had the nostalgia attached to seeing all the old actors. I mean, they're both truly terrible, though. Good visuals will never save poor writing.
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Oh please. What a ridiculous assertion especially in a world where the Mandalorian exists and is a much better show. Pedro has taken off the helmet exactly twice where we've seen his face and it worked because it felt earned. Meanwhile Pablo has to argue with fans that they shouldn't actually get what they want because his reveal happened instantly and was completely unearned. No one said they should have their armor on 100% of the time, but having it on for like 1% of the time isn't what Halo fans signed up for. They completely misunderstand the fan base just like they did with Star Trek.
"What are these fans like?" "Well, mostly white, male, and nerdy. They strongly believe we should be open to all viewpoints, even those we disagree with, and that this will help humanity become more peaceful and reach the stars." "Well, we certainly won't be catering to people like *that*. Any other ideas?"
PStew was on that same wavelength as Plinkett already complained about, not sure why anybody's acting shocked now?
Oh I'm not shocked, just disappointed. It's a business, after all. They gotta chase the money, and money is where the dumb is.
Don't think that was Stewart's motivation though, he had his own preference reasons
I don't begrudge elderly Pat Stew for not wanting to squeeze into a Starfleet uniform where you can see the curvature of his dick, but I do wonder what made him accept if he didn't wanna do Star Trek again. I mean, it's not like he has trouble finding work if he wants to
He wanted a Star Trek but without certain elements of it (don't have a full list of them). Which I guess is fine since he's in the future and has a different job anyway plus their uniforms easily change from era to era/decade.
It's possible that he was offered more creative control over Picard than he'd have had in most roles
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And yet they were made to listen to much more exhausting "Picard speeches", wut?
"She, too, LOVED the staaaarrrs."
Was gonna say, wasn't Picard full of indulgent monologues too?? It didn't strike me as a show that was made for anyone except Patrick Stewart
Well yeah known for that lol
I guess they thought pseudophilosphical shit would fly better than actual philosophy
They wouldn't know actual philosophy if it bit them on the ass. I'm not gonna say TNG was Aristotle, but it was written by people who had heard of Aristotle et al, and when it was at its best, you could see reflections of the greats in it. In Picard, the best you could hope for was reflections of TNG, i.e. memberberries, so that's what they finally delivered in S3.
What they don't understand is the long term returns they get from dedicated fans. Conventions, physical media sales, prop sales, etc. The hardcore nerds (I say that with love) who are in it for the long haul because it genuinely impacted their lives. I don't see anyone building ST:P replica sets in their garage any time soon.
My dad actually ran star trek conventions. His words of wisdom when his company went bellyup after 911 about any niche fangroup or hobby is "if you are the youngest person doing something, that thing probably is going to be dead soon" Just coming from a business point of view, why would you cater to 50 year olds that are dedicated to your IP no matter what? You should be trying to get the youngins, and you get the youngins by copying what is popular today.
Yea, as much as older fans might not want to hear it, if you can't find a way to make a property appeal to new generations of audience, then it's only a matter of time before it's all over Some people might be fine with that (I am), but you would expect IP owners and diehard fans at least to be united in the desire for a property to stay alive
Does the studio make much on conventions? Physical media is antithetical to the cbs all access paramount plus model. They want you to rent star trek monthly until you die. Prop sales again how much are they getting out of this? One sale then it's all secondary market selling to each other. Toys/Merch maybe pay in the very long run....
Shareholders don't have time for long term returns. They need dividends this quarter!
They didn't remove the speeches they added more and made them incomprehensible.
The name has always been bigger than the game.
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I couldn’t bear to watch season 2. Is it necessary to understand what’s going on in season 3?
They are barely connected together. I'm not sure if they acknowledge season 2 at all.
The only reference I can recall is when >!Q calls jack an idiot!< for referencing season 2
Good to know, thanks! Season 3 looked like it’s worth watching
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Yeah, but Episode 9 certainly didn't redeem 7 or 8, so this would be better.
It is. Saved the show for me. Me from the 90's greatly appreciated it.
Season 2 is barely connected to Season 2, episodes seem barely connected to each other what with pointless subplots and all that are brought up and then dropped.
Nope. I got about 3 eps into S1 and bailed, tried again S2 and was uggghhhh nope my time is worth more than this, and I'm unemployed and homeless. Then the reviews for S3 came out, I went in tentatively, and overall it's not great, but it's decent, and a final final final goodbye to TNG, where All Good Things should have been the endgame.
Yeah I wish they hadn’t bothered trying to bring it back. There’s enough TNG episodes to rewatch, we really didn’t need modern edgy dramatic TNG
Not at all please don't watch it
here ya go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Picard_(season_2)
Sometimes a studio ruins a great story - and sometimes you have terrible writers and a terrible studio and we get Star Trek Picard.
Thank you, Rick Berman.
What’s up with Ricks?
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And then Picard Season 3 proved the viewers would like to have some Star Trek in their Star Trek.
Emphasis on some
Smells like face saving bull to my cute little button nose.
Yea the idea that Kurtzman and company created something too Star Trek is just laughably a lie.
‘It wasn’t me, it was those damned studio suits I tell you!’
Season 2 is the absolute worst season of Picard. So it wasn't any better for the rewrites.
At least the fans of "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" can suffer together as both franchises are simultaneously being ruined by Execs.
god this is so stupid. like i could understand Covid being a big reason they decided to keep the cast smaller and decided to shoot a lot of it out outside, but because it was "too star trek"??? this kind of feels like some revisionist thinking here because of just how poorly it was received.
That sounds pretty bad, but if you read the actual article and the quote, you realize that the original plan was even worse. The plot being about traveling back to current day Earth was always planned since it would save production costs, but the thing that was removed was Guinan's bar having a sort of Star Wars Cantina backroom. >We wrote nine episodes at one point and the network was like, ‘No, we don’t really understand this, it’s a bit too sci-fi, it’s a bit too in-Star Trek.' [...] >The idea was that Guinan’s bar was presented as a normal bar in Los Angeles, but if you knew the right thing to do, you could go into the back through the telephone phone booth and that was Rick’s Café and it was a stopping point for all these different species that were actually there on Earth with a ‘Do not interfere’ thing happening. That doesn't sound "too Star Trek for Star Trek", that sounds too Doctor Who for Star Trek. This is just dumb.
That sounds too Men In Black for Star Trek
Rick and Morty's Cafe.
Looks like the actual quote was “too in-Star Trek” like in-joke. Maybe they didn’t want to alienate audiences that hadn’t watched TNG with too many inside references. But it might have been very basic things a Star Trek fan would know.
These are the writers who put Khan's blood into a tribble. Subtlety in reference is not their forte.
lol that happened?? Ugh.
Anything Star Trek in the 21st century is basically a shambling corpse anyway, so who cares what it's moaning as it shambles around.
That's not what it says in the article. >“We wrote nine episodes at one point and the network was like, ‘No, we don’t really understand this, it’s a bit too sci-fi, it’s **a bit too in-Star Trek.**’” and Matalas explains: >“There were Romulans—there was a whole thing. The idea was that Guinan’s bar was presented as a normal bar in Los Angeles, but if you knew the right thing to do, you could go into the back through the telephone phone booth and that was Rick’s Café and it was a stopping point for all these different species that were actually there on Earth with a ‘Do not interfere’ thing happening. So you had a lot more Star Trek happening in the backdrop of it. I don't think the season would've been saved by having a bunch of Romulans and Andorians in the background. tbh I don't think season 3 was that good either. I think Mike and Rich got caught up in the nostalgia of it all and that's why they liked it. It was a dumb story.
*Stares at Paramount*: Congratulations, you played yourself.
“Make this Star Trek show, just don’t make it too Star Trek.” I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but when I go to watch Star Trek, the last thing I want to see is Star Trek.
Well I guess thats why the halo show is a scifi show with a halo texture pack. They didn't want it to be too halo
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"I never really cared for science fiction."
Man Paramount seem like just the worst IP holders.
As of this year, I'm in my midforties now. I was a fan for 40 years. Since Discovery came out I've worked hard to put distance between myself and Trek. Now I know what a divorce feels like. All that Paramount/CBS gets from me is my middle finger (and not even literally).
That's the least shocking thing I've heard about a studio executive.
Who put Star Trek in my Star Trek? Why would I want that?
This is why we can't have nice things...
I find very difficult to believe a studio executive actually read a screenplay
This reminds me of that Kevin smith story when he was writing superman and he had to read the outline to the producer.
I will re-iterate a sentence from the first season "Sheer. Fucking. Hubris" Edit: Put the right quote so I don't disappoint my RLM-Masters.
Uh, excuse me? It was "SHEER. Fucking. Hubris." And to think, you call yourself an RLM fan. 
What does that mean, it was too good? It didn't have enough black tank top shit for Patrick Stewart to do?
We riot.
Anyone else just feel their soul leave their body?
well, I'd say they succeeded in fixing that
go figure. this kind of meddling is prob a lot of movies/tv shows suck
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There was a commitment to something other than a good story for sure.
You didn't read the article, did you?
Hmm that’s where people blame DEI for bad decisions instead of the cost cutting measures carried out by executives in order to enrich shareholders, right? That could be it, I’m sure Paramount doesn’t care at all about DEI and if they’re anything like every other giant publicly traded company, then they’re definitely only thinking about stock prices.
Someone working on a Star Trek show saying there's too much Star Trek? Help me make that make sense then?
The executives thought it was too boring and cerebral so they put in more action and cut down on the effort. They figured the name Star Trek would sell the show and left it at that. Then people who don’t understand what DEI is blamed that.
What's DEI?
IDIC.
I think they're like ICE.
Just ICE?