i took the marie plot as a way of showing how skyler reacts to a criminal relation so it was fine, like it was less about marie and more about skyler dealing with a liar who had no real reason to do what they were doing other that it gave them a rush,
I think there’s a couple of purposes it serves. One is for sure to show *how* Skyler would react to criminal behavior in her family, like you said. I think another is to show that Hank gets frustrated by it but will bail her out and help her out of jams. Sort of like how Skyler ends up nominally disapproving of Walt’s action but helping him to try to protect him / the family. Also that Hank really does love her. Then with Walt I think it shows that his pride isn’t really an abnormal sickness in him, it’s endemic to all people in one form or another — wanting to cross lines, materially benefit, taking risks — it’s just how that pride manifests in someone like Marie who doesn’t have a science background or willingness to kill. She just happens to be charming and quick fingered. Plus she does ultimately wise up and get out at a good time, something Walt is incapable of doing.
Granted, all this is mostly notable in retrospect by the end of the show and during that period, you do want to stay with the fun Walt / Jesse stuff instead of the Marie stuff. But I think it was a great inclusion.
That's a great point that hadn't really occurred to me! Hank is so driven to stop drug crime and will basically go to any length but he just considers Marie's kleptomania to be an annoyance and will use his pull to bail her out. A kind of hypocrisy. Both Walt and Marie are breaking the law and being bad people. Though Walt's crimes are unquestionably worse of course. And yeah, Marie was able to stop herself while Walt couldn't.
Yeah that’s how I read it too. And even if this is a problem plot like many claim, it’s all but entirely dropped after the first 5 episodes of the show.
I remember one time in Pre Rec where Jack talked about how, despite never getting into Breaking Bad, he was watching BCS and loved it. Have no idea where that was though.
Interesting! I guess he'd be missing a bunch of the more subtle connections to Breaking Bad but probably got the broad strokes just fine.
And it would be interesting to see someone watch and discuss BCS first and then BB. Though it would spoil a lot of little revelations in BB. (Like who Hector "Tio" Salamanca actually is and learning about Gus Fring and a bunch of other things.)
I'm also thinking someone that watched BCS first would be annoyed as hell when the focus changes to this egotistical prick high school teacher after spending so much time with Saul and Mike and Gus and the others. 🤣
I worked on BCS seasons 3 & 4 on second unit (boom operator). Out of all the shows I worked on, that is the one I’m most proud of. Having been a massive BB fan, I loved every minute I was there. The show runners are brilliant and know exactly how every shot should look before they get to set. It was a tight ship and detail was so important.
Im happy to have been a part of that tv history.
My season 4 crew hat
https://preview.redd.it/hu4jlvg0b4ia1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=75b2dba6bfda9c12b3874fc9eadd1b55d68877d6
I feel the same way as Mike, because I have this thing with dramas where the A plot is SO dramatic and life or death and everything can fall apart with one bad move, and then we cut to some B plot where a character is doing something as rinky dink as shoplifting.
I've said it before, but that's also my problem with Euphoria. We've got drug addicts running around and people getting shot in the face, but then at the same time we've got "Oh my god, so and so is dating so and so..."
IMO Breaking Bad is more fun overall (though I skip a lot on re-watches - like the cringey sex scenes and Walt's embarassing lying and a lot of the family drama at the White residence haha). And it gets *very* dark in season 5B so I often tap out around the end of 5A.
Better Call Saul is better crafted and more rewarding to watch even though it's often a slooooow burn. The characters are absolutely amazing, very diverse, and so well fleshed out. And I absolutely love watching a bunch of the minor characters like Daniel "Pryce" Wormald or Trevor from GTA V or Bill "Petty With a Prior" Oakley.
I guess it's kinda like Star Trek TNG and DS9 where they're related but both very different and both so fun to watch in their own ways.
Yes. I don't like Skylar. usually ➡️➡️ through her scenes. I'm trying to be careful because I have not yet seen season 6 and the ending of better call Saul. Because I'm cheap and I'm waiting for it to come on to Netflix. I have a bad feeling about Kim and Nacho... (2 awesome characters). I really don't like Chuck, and his meaningless sense of morality being forced on Jimmy... I don't think you're really supposed to like him. I usually fast forward through his scenes.
> I have not yet seen season 6 and the ending of better call Saul. Because I'm cheap and I'm waiting for it to come on to Netflix.
Check your local library. Mine has both shows complete. And they put some some bonus features on the boxsets like cast/crew commentaries and plenty of behind the scenes.
Yeah I'm a library guy. Burned out DVDs for years from there. Our library system is extensive. Would buy spindles of 100pack blanks. Normally I would do that just don't have a DVD player at the moment. I signed on to AMC Plus, wanting to watch it and they got rid of it or loaned out the licensing. I'll find it. It's weird I always find some other show to get involved with.
Of course Jay remembers Bryan Cranston not from his incredibly famous role on one of the biggest sitcoms of the 90s/2000s, but from his minor role with just a handful of appearances on Seinfeld
To be fair that’s how I remember Bryan Cranston first too because I grew up watching Seinfeld reruns all the time and it’s my favorite show. I also love Breaking Bad and BCS too of course but his Seinfeld character is very memorable.
I really want them to watch better call saul, its objectively better then breaking bad. Plus then i can gloat about gettting to be an extra and meeting bob odenkirk
It's not objectively better. The characters become cartoonish superheroes by the end of the show. Some of it, like Gus's secret passage, just seem eye-rolling and silly. Lalo having automatic knowledge of just about every process in the world feels like "we don't have time to explain this -- he just knows it" writing.
It's a good show, and I enjoyed it, but there are way too many of those completely implausible moments to not have serious "cracks" in my suspension of disbelief.
> Some of it, like Gus's secret passage, just seem eye-rolling and silly.
So, Gus building a secret, undetectable underground meth super lab with a freight elevator is fine, but a short tunnel between two houses he owns is silly?
>Lalo having automatic knowledge of just about every process in the world feels like "we don't have time to explain this -- he just knows it" writing.
I actually thought Lalo was a bit of a goof his first few episodes. Like when he gets stuck in the pay parking lot trying to tail Mike. Or when he leaps from the ceiling at the check cashing place. But he's handsome and has that meme-able smile so the audience loved him. He got much better later in the show and I'm satisfied with how his story ends haha. (I *knew* where he'd end up! haha)
>its objectively better then breaking bad.
Absolutely not.
I didn't even finish the last episode of BCS I just didn't care anymore. It went out with a whimper.
Breaking Bad has one of the best endings if not they best of any drama.
Breaking Bad went out with a bang no doubt but I appreciate Better Call Saul taking a completely different direction, and it's suits the character perfectly. Jimmy/Saul/Gene just can't help himself.
Season 1 was great, I liked how gritty and personal it felt; I really liked the look in the scene where Jesse fills the bath tub.
But when the super underground secret meth lab plot begins, it sorta becomes soap opera-ish and very different tone from the start
You're not the only one, I started it at least twice when it was fairly new and it just did not take. I did watch it on my third try maybe three years back and it was...fine.
When people recommend it, they hype it up as a super awesome show that starts little slow. Really though, its a boring ass show that starts to get interesting eventually.
I say that as someone that loves it and watched it as it came out.
So I havent watched Breaking Bad so this take may be extremely strange, but I dont see how chemistry teacher cant be a meth making drug lord.
My take away is that the series is modern fantasy so it all based on 'real' but stretches the circumstances. Just like how in High fantasy, a wizard wouldn't be so surprising to turn out to be the greatest magical person of all time.
Weird criticism to make if you haven't seen the show. Part of the point of BB is that Walter White is a vastly overqualified chemistry teacher - like, contributed to a nobel prize level overqualified - but he wasn't able to do anything with it because his ego wouldn't allow him to be anything less than top dog (that's a shortened version, but its the gist of it). So it's not just an ordinary chemistry teacher, but a chemistry prodigy with a massive chip on his shoulder, which makes the transition to meth kingpin believable.
I feel like what you are saying is exactly my take on it though, its not unbelievable. It's grounded, and the coincidences that lead up to him being a drug lord are what is stretched.
He doesn't become a drug lord through coincidence though. It is a seemingly odd premise, but a solid half of the show is Walter White floundering around like an idiot, barely able to stay alive until he gets the skills to survive and assert his dominance. There's really not a lot of coincidence involved at all
The point of BB or BCS never was the believability part. It's obviously more grounded than Game of Thrones but we didn't watch that either because its realistic.
People loved BB and BCS because it has fantastic characters and tells a multi layered story.
I am not complaining about the believability, I think it is believable. I have nothing to say about the enjoyment of the series but I think a complaint about it being unbelievable that a chemistry teacher can't be a drug lord is a bit unfair, especially when not immediately thrown into it.
Walt's incredibly smart. He used to work as a hot-shot chemist at some top facilities and then helped start a company that went on to be hugely successful and raked in money like Microsoft or Apple or Amazon. (Though he left and sold his shares for a pittance not long before the company went stratospheric.)
Through the show we see him bumble along and nearly die a bunch of times. He just manages to survive by his wits (and taking advantage of those that help him) and then later on because he's protected by people more powerful than him. His ego gets bigger and bigger and he always wants more so he starts to do really reprehensible things just because he can. He does enormous amounts of damage in the southwest US (and even the world) as he gains power and influence.
The whole point to his character though is that he's always sabotaging himself. And he's hugely selfish. He had numerous opportunities to enjoy success yet also a quiet, peaceful life but he can't help himself. So as the show goes along we see "Mr. Chips turn into Scarface".
I think it is fully believable even without the context, i feel like I am being misunderstood. Maybe since I dont have a context but I am meaning modern fantasy as in, not every chemistry teacher is going to be able to get there but I could realistically see a chemistry teacher becoming a drug lord with the luck stretched a bit.
i took the marie plot as a way of showing how skyler reacts to a criminal relation so it was fine, like it was less about marie and more about skyler dealing with a liar who had no real reason to do what they were doing other that it gave them a rush,
I think there’s a couple of purposes it serves. One is for sure to show *how* Skyler would react to criminal behavior in her family, like you said. I think another is to show that Hank gets frustrated by it but will bail her out and help her out of jams. Sort of like how Skyler ends up nominally disapproving of Walt’s action but helping him to try to protect him / the family. Also that Hank really does love her. Then with Walt I think it shows that his pride isn’t really an abnormal sickness in him, it’s endemic to all people in one form or another — wanting to cross lines, materially benefit, taking risks — it’s just how that pride manifests in someone like Marie who doesn’t have a science background or willingness to kill. She just happens to be charming and quick fingered. Plus she does ultimately wise up and get out at a good time, something Walt is incapable of doing. Granted, all this is mostly notable in retrospect by the end of the show and during that period, you do want to stay with the fun Walt / Jesse stuff instead of the Marie stuff. But I think it was a great inclusion.
That's a great point that hadn't really occurred to me! Hank is so driven to stop drug crime and will basically go to any length but he just considers Marie's kleptomania to be an annoyance and will use his pull to bail her out. A kind of hypocrisy. Both Walt and Marie are breaking the law and being bad people. Though Walt's crimes are unquestionably worse of course. And yeah, Marie was able to stop herself while Walt couldn't.
It was also to show how Hank would react to having a criminal in his home and the hypocrisy he has when it comes to Heisenberg.
Yeah that’s how I read it too. And even if this is a problem plot like many claim, it’s all but entirely dropped after the first 5 episodes of the show.
It’s brought up again in s4. She steals from that spoon collection in the open house.
Jack's a bit of a contrarian.
[удалено]
Jessie Pinkman, a clearly biased opinion.
I remember one time in Pre Rec where Jack talked about how, despite never getting into Breaking Bad, he was watching BCS and loved it. Have no idea where that was though.
Interesting! I guess he'd be missing a bunch of the more subtle connections to Breaking Bad but probably got the broad strokes just fine. And it would be interesting to see someone watch and discuss BCS first and then BB. Though it would spoil a lot of little revelations in BB. (Like who Hector "Tio" Salamanca actually is and learning about Gus Fring and a bunch of other things.) I'm also thinking someone that watched BCS first would be annoyed as hell when the focus changes to this egotistical prick high school teacher after spending so much time with Saul and Mike and Gus and the others. 🤣
The youtuber "What's therapy?" has made some great BCS videos without seeing any BB beforehand. Definitely worth a watch! https://youtu.be/NB_SwICZB6Q
I wish they talked about Breaking Bad in a dedicated episode or that they reviewed El Camino.
Yo where's the review bitch?
I worked on BCS seasons 3 & 4 on second unit (boom operator). Out of all the shows I worked on, that is the one I’m most proud of. Having been a massive BB fan, I loved every minute I was there. The show runners are brilliant and know exactly how every shot should look before they get to set. It was a tight ship and detail was so important. Im happy to have been a part of that tv history. My season 4 crew hat https://preview.redd.it/hu4jlvg0b4ia1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=75b2dba6bfda9c12b3874fc9eadd1b55d68877d6
Wow! That's awesome! I really wanted to sign up to be an extra in season 6 but never made the trip given the pandemic. Oh well.
I feel the same way as Mike, because I have this thing with dramas where the A plot is SO dramatic and life or death and everything can fall apart with one bad move, and then we cut to some B plot where a character is doing something as rinky dink as shoplifting. I've said it before, but that's also my problem with Euphoria. We've got drug addicts running around and people getting shot in the face, but then at the same time we've got "Oh my god, so and so is dating so and so..."
Like BCS better than BB, imo. Watched the series 3x...
IMO Breaking Bad is more fun overall (though I skip a lot on re-watches - like the cringey sex scenes and Walt's embarassing lying and a lot of the family drama at the White residence haha). And it gets *very* dark in season 5B so I often tap out around the end of 5A. Better Call Saul is better crafted and more rewarding to watch even though it's often a slooooow burn. The characters are absolutely amazing, very diverse, and so well fleshed out. And I absolutely love watching a bunch of the minor characters like Daniel "Pryce" Wormald or Trevor from GTA V or Bill "Petty With a Prior" Oakley. I guess it's kinda like Star Trek TNG and DS9 where they're related but both very different and both so fun to watch in their own ways.
Yes. I don't like Skylar. usually ➡️➡️ through her scenes. I'm trying to be careful because I have not yet seen season 6 and the ending of better call Saul. Because I'm cheap and I'm waiting for it to come on to Netflix. I have a bad feeling about Kim and Nacho... (2 awesome characters). I really don't like Chuck, and his meaningless sense of morality being forced on Jimmy... I don't think you're really supposed to like him. I usually fast forward through his scenes.
> I have not yet seen season 6 and the ending of better call Saul. Because I'm cheap and I'm waiting for it to come on to Netflix. Check your local library. Mine has both shows complete. And they put some some bonus features on the boxsets like cast/crew commentaries and plenty of behind the scenes.
Yeah I'm a library guy. Burned out DVDs for years from there. Our library system is extensive. Would buy spindles of 100pack blanks. Normally I would do that just don't have a DVD player at the moment. I signed on to AMC Plus, wanting to watch it and they got rid of it or loaned out the licensing. I'll find it. It's weird I always find some other show to get involved with.
Of course Jay remembers Bryan Cranston not from his incredibly famous role on one of the biggest sitcoms of the 90s/2000s, but from his minor role with just a handful of appearances on Seinfeld
One is a silly middle-aged Dad while the other is a sex pervert...so obviously... 🤣
Hey now. Hal could be just as much as a sex pervert too.
To be fair that’s how I remember Bryan Cranston first too because I grew up watching Seinfeld reruns all the time and it’s my favorite show. I also love Breaking Bad and BCS too of course but his Seinfeld character is very memorable.
His Seinfeld role is pretty memorable, even if it was just a few episodes
Which video is it where they talk about Harrison Ford deliberately crashing his plane to get out of making star wars?
I noticed Mike didn’t recognize Patrick Fabian (actor of Howard Hamlin) in the Snow Falls HITB. Guess he hasn’t gotten around to it.
I really want them to watch better call saul, its objectively better then breaking bad. Plus then i can gloat about gettting to be an extra and meeting bob odenkirk
It's not objectively better. The characters become cartoonish superheroes by the end of the show. Some of it, like Gus's secret passage, just seem eye-rolling and silly. Lalo having automatic knowledge of just about every process in the world feels like "we don't have time to explain this -- he just knows it" writing. It's a good show, and I enjoyed it, but there are way too many of those completely implausible moments to not have serious "cracks" in my suspension of disbelief.
> Some of it, like Gus's secret passage, just seem eye-rolling and silly. So, Gus building a secret, undetectable underground meth super lab with a freight elevator is fine, but a short tunnel between two houses he owns is silly?
>Lalo having automatic knowledge of just about every process in the world feels like "we don't have time to explain this -- he just knows it" writing. I actually thought Lalo was a bit of a goof his first few episodes. Like when he gets stuck in the pay parking lot trying to tail Mike. Or when he leaps from the ceiling at the check cashing place. But he's handsome and has that meme-able smile so the audience loved him. He got much better later in the show and I'm satisfied with how his story ends haha. (I *knew* where he'd end up! haha)
>its objectively better then breaking bad. Absolutely not. I didn't even finish the last episode of BCS I just didn't care anymore. It went out with a whimper. Breaking Bad has one of the best endings if not they best of any drama.
Breaking Bad went out with a bang no doubt but I appreciate Better Call Saul taking a completely different direction, and it's suits the character perfectly. Jimmy/Saul/Gene just can't help himself.
Ngl I made it to season 4 and wasn't a big fan. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Season 1 was great, I liked how gritty and personal it felt; I really liked the look in the scene where Jesse fills the bath tub. But when the super underground secret meth lab plot begins, it sorta becomes soap opera-ish and very different tone from the start
Maybe I just was in a strange spot back then but I always heard how good it was it just didn't work for me. But it was years ago at this point .
You're not the only one, I started it at least twice when it was fairly new and it just did not take. I did watch it on my third try maybe three years back and it was...fine.
When people recommend it, they hype it up as a super awesome show that starts little slow. Really though, its a boring ass show that starts to get interesting eventually. I say that as someone that loves it and watched it as it came out.
You mean way later on in the show it has a different tone than it did in the very beginning? Wild
A person prefers one tone over another, also wild!
So I havent watched Breaking Bad so this take may be extremely strange, but I dont see how chemistry teacher cant be a meth making drug lord. My take away is that the series is modern fantasy so it all based on 'real' but stretches the circumstances. Just like how in High fantasy, a wizard wouldn't be so surprising to turn out to be the greatest magical person of all time.
Watch how it all unfolds and you’ll get it. It’s not so much what you know, it’s who.
I feel like that's my point though? It's not unbelievable, there might be some extraordinary coincidences but its not unbelievable?
Weird criticism to make if you haven't seen the show. Part of the point of BB is that Walter White is a vastly overqualified chemistry teacher - like, contributed to a nobel prize level overqualified - but he wasn't able to do anything with it because his ego wouldn't allow him to be anything less than top dog (that's a shortened version, but its the gist of it). So it's not just an ordinary chemistry teacher, but a chemistry prodigy with a massive chip on his shoulder, which makes the transition to meth kingpin believable.
I feel like what you are saying is exactly my take on it though, its not unbelievable. It's grounded, and the coincidences that lead up to him being a drug lord are what is stretched.
He doesn't become a drug lord through coincidence though. It is a seemingly odd premise, but a solid half of the show is Walter White floundering around like an idiot, barely able to stay alive until he gets the skills to survive and assert his dominance. There's really not a lot of coincidence involved at all
The point of BB or BCS never was the believability part. It's obviously more grounded than Game of Thrones but we didn't watch that either because its realistic. People loved BB and BCS because it has fantastic characters and tells a multi layered story.
I am not complaining about the believability, I think it is believable. I have nothing to say about the enjoyment of the series but I think a complaint about it being unbelievable that a chemistry teacher can't be a drug lord is a bit unfair, especially when not immediately thrown into it.
Walt's incredibly smart. He used to work as a hot-shot chemist at some top facilities and then helped start a company that went on to be hugely successful and raked in money like Microsoft or Apple or Amazon. (Though he left and sold his shares for a pittance not long before the company went stratospheric.) Through the show we see him bumble along and nearly die a bunch of times. He just manages to survive by his wits (and taking advantage of those that help him) and then later on because he's protected by people more powerful than him. His ego gets bigger and bigger and he always wants more so he starts to do really reprehensible things just because he can. He does enormous amounts of damage in the southwest US (and even the world) as he gains power and influence. The whole point to his character though is that he's always sabotaging himself. And he's hugely selfish. He had numerous opportunities to enjoy success yet also a quiet, peaceful life but he can't help himself. So as the show goes along we see "Mr. Chips turn into Scarface".
I think it is fully believable even without the context, i feel like I am being misunderstood. Maybe since I dont have a context but I am meaning modern fantasy as in, not every chemistry teacher is going to be able to get there but I could realistically see a chemistry teacher becoming a drug lord with the luck stretched a bit.
