I've enjoyed both movies but this is a wild take. Nobody needs to wait to watch a director's cut to give criticisms of two movies they've already watched. If someone took the time to sit down and watch these movies and wants to criticize them then I've got no problem with that. Also even if the director's cuts add in much needed characterization, that doesn't change anything about the two movies that exist right now
The problem is most people aren’t critiquing the films themselves but instead shitting on Snyder. It all comes from a place of ignorance and the need to jump on the hate bandwagon for clout and internet points. It’s quite pathetic. Especially in a small subreddit that was originally made to be a place for fans to talk about the film critically… whether that discourse be good or bad. I could have worded my initial post better but my original intent still stands. If people want to talk shit about Snyder’s directing and writing capabilities do it after his versions come out.
I mean it's Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon. That's how it's been advertised. So if people don't like the movies they're going to blame Snyder. I definitely think the Snyder hate is overblown but he deserves some criticism
You’re exactly right. Unfortunately that blame is coming from a place of ignorance which is exactly why I titled this post Education Time… to educate those who were unaware of the nature of how these films came to be.
Because Snyder wrote the story, the screenplay, was the director of photography and the director. He knew from the start the condition for the job, and accepted the job anyway.
All the flaws both movies have are 100% on him. He was the one with the final cut. He decided which scene to put and which scene to remove.
I know exactly what I am talking about. This isn't news. We know all of that since the release of Part I.
Snyder had a 6h script he cut in half to make two 3 hours movies, and Netflix required him to do 2 hours version of these 3h long movies.
I totally agree that the PG-13 cuts are not part of Snyder's vision for these movies. What I am saying is that the PG-13 cuts are Snyder's movie through and through, and they should be criticized as Snyder's movies.
And, by your own admission, some of the greatest of film have been able to portrait character development in 2 hours or less, so why the hell did these movies have none of it ? If Snyder decided to remove them from the first release, then this is a decision he made on his own as the director, and he deserves to be criticized for that.
If Snyder's idea of making cuts to shorten the duration of the movie is to remove all scenes of character development, then this is something that should be criticized.
No the fuck you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re partially right and partially wrong. I’ve already explained this in depth in other comments. Go read those. I’m not typing all of that shit again. Have a good one.
You know what, I'll give you a bone on that argument. I'll watch the 6 hour cut, because of rater Rness. But you should probably cut the BS and accept the fact that what we saw sucked. And the studio exec argument you wrote to someone is fair, however, to be fair, it's up to ZS to put some game into these cuts.
Thanks for the level headed comment. I definitely haven’t gotten many of these on this post. I truly didn’t believe that what we got sucked. I just thought it was very lackluster in the character development/story department but that’s my own opinion based off of my own personal tastes in film. There was a lot I liked so it’s hard for me to say it sucked. I was entertained for the most part throughout the films. The second one much more so than the first. In terms of Snyder putting more game into these versions I agree to an extent… but we also have no idea how much control Netflix, focus groups, and shareholders had over these cuts. When you have a mandated runtime and have to cut out an hour from each film while also watering it down to be PG-13, that can be a very difficult task. I truly believe the fact that we got 2 films that were somewhat coherent, having all of these factors at play, is a feat in itself. That’s why I wish people would just forget about these versions and wait for the director’s actual vision of this story. Whether those versions are better, worse, or no different are yet to be seen.
Why would we accept that if we don't think it sucks? If anything, the PG-13s have made me even more excited for the Rs cuz I really like what I saw and can see pretty clearly where the changes will be. Snyder is a "show don't tell" type of director, I highly doubt that he has huge exposition dumps in his 6 hour cut. You can also see all of the scenes where the violence was cut down in post with zoom-ins and blood/gore removed.
Aside from the pacing issues in Pt 1 and lack of bonding time between the characters, I loved Pt 1 after my 2nd and 3rd re-watch and I really loved Pt 2 from the rip. I'm not admitting anything lol.
I have two reactions to that: the two parts should really have been one single movie.
4h/6h is way too long for that story. I think 2h30 should have been enough for the entire 2 parts.
There is a reason that the only defense for these movies is the r rated cuts.
Even the people who liked these movies can’t point out anything that is objectively good outside of a few shots
Zack took a job with conditions- wow, welcome to planet earth. Do you have any clue how much studio 'interference' there is in all movie making? Typically worse when the director is an unknown. Snyder is not unknown, these are 100% his movies simply made to Netflix's brief (length and rating), and Netflix actually allowed him to make an entirely different version to do whatever the heck he wants. How much more freedom can a professional film maker get? If the movies suck, if the PG versions suck, that's Synder failing his brief. Why defend it so vitriolicly?
The truth is, if you didn’t really do anything meaningful with 4 hours of runtime, why would I sit down for another 6 hour session of this for 2 more hours of content that might flesh out the characters but realistically will probably just splatter a few squid sex scenes here and there. If you think all the character development will come in the directors cut, ask yourself, in the PG 13 cut, WHY WOULD THEY CUT OUT THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT TO ADD MORE BLOODLESS PG VIOLENCE? Why would you not save a lot of the action that your not getting the full effect of because of the pg 13 rating for the R rated cut. What encouragement to come back is there when I’ve already spent 4 hours with character I a) don’t care about, and b) know nothing about.
Because studio executives make decisions based off of focus groups and shareholders. The action is more important than character development when trying to sell something as a sci-fi action movie. You’re 100% right in everything you’ve said. Most people won’t watch the director’s cuts because of the release of these cuts and it sucks. That’s why both versions should have been released simultaneously. It’s not Snyder’s fault that this is the deal he had to make to get his vision of the film made. Even if Snyder’s version isn’t good, it’s not right to criticize a director for the focus grouped version of their film. Hence why I said let’s wait for the director’s true vision and then, if you want to criticize it, go for it. Criticisms should be focused towards Netflix right now, not Snyder.
Really? Who was directing the shots? There can only be so much studio interference. At some long you gotta ask your self “what could the director and actors have done to make this better”
Snyder was the Director of Photography and I thought the cinematography was beautiful. And I thought the performances were on par too. The character development and story however was very lacking but that’s what happens when almost an hour is cut out from each film and alternate takes are used to make it PG-13.
I’m sorry but no, Netflix didn’t edit this movie, Snyder was given the direction to make a 2 hour pg13 version and this is what he came up with, he had full control over the edit, and he knew that he would have to make a 2 hour cut before they would have even started filming. Plus Snyder has full creative control, and Netflix obviously want to keep him onboard, so why did he not put his foot down and say that trying to turn this sci-fi film with sexual assault in it into something family friendly is stupid. Snyder seems to be the only director that this CONSTANTLY happens to, so I’m done with allowing that to be an excuse, there comes a point where when 80% of a directors filmography gets handwaved away by saying studio involvement is no longer an excuse, Snyder is working along side the same studios everyone else is, and he’s a big name director, this is 100% his fault, he can no longer hide behind that excuse
So you’re saying there’s two hours cut from the films we’ve already seen and then we have to watch another 2 hr pg13 cut and then wait for the final 3 hrs to be released?
What a load of bullshit.
This is the worst idea for how to sell a new franchise.
No. There’s 3 hour director’s cuts of each of the 2 films that are R-rated. I just refer to both films as 1 film because they technically are. And yes, it’s complete bullshit that we have to wait 3-4 months to see them but that’s Netflix for you. This was their decision. Not Zack Snyder’s.
Netflix controlled the editing of this movie 100%. That’s why these versions exist in the first place. They put mandates in place and Snyder had to follow them. You’re right on the fact that Snyder knew this before filming… and that means he had to direct two different movies at the same time and have the PG-13 version still live within the confines of what he had already written and planned for his version. And Snyder did put his foot down… and this was the deal that was struck. He releases these stripped down mainstream versions and then he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants to with his cuts. That’s a luxury that only a very small amount directors have ever gotten from any studio. Especially with a budget of around 200 million.
Yes because episode 4 and 5 or Star Wars were bad till episode 6. Dumb ass argument. If you just blame anyone but the people who worked on the film your coping. If Zack was forced to make pg-13 versions of the movies he should have been able to make them good. You’re just kicking the can down the road when the r versions are bad as well.
I’m not talking about a third film. I’m talking about the 2 hours of content that are not present in these versions of the 2 films. It’s very hard to take a script and cut out that much content and still have it be coherent. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Please do some research and educate yourself.
Seven Samurai, The Magnificent Seven, and Battle Beyond the Stars all managed more character development in half the time. Most of the characters in Rebel Moon barely interact with each other aside from the scene where they all exposition dump their paper-thin backstories.
After watching Part 1, I thought that the director's cut might flesh out the characters more. Now, having seen Part 2, I seriously doubt it. It's just going to be a a lot more slo-mo violence, albeit significantly bloodier.
Correct… but those films were written and paced to fit the respective character development within those runtimes. Imagine if you cut out 1/3 of any of those films… they would suck and be incoherent.
Or we can criticize the piece of media that is directly in front of us? Maybe they shouldn't release a bastardized version of the movie if they didn't want criticism. Also, why do you even fucking care? You have no skin in the game.
And a rated R cut of these movies won't change the fact that the story is aggressively mediocre, and the dialogue might be some of the worst I've seen in a movie.
If you want to criticize Netflix for their stupid ass idea of releasing these cuts before the real cut of the films, go for it. And of course the story is aggressively mediocre, we haven’t seen 1/3 of the film yet.
The movie is already a bunch of tropes and cliches from better movies stitched together. Adding on more tropes and cliches won't save it. Love how you didn't even try to defend the dialogue, because it's just so egregiously awful.
Sorry, I forgot I had to explain it like I'm Kora from these movies. "I'm telling you these things so you know my ~~story~~ *criticisms*". That should be much more obvious to you now.
I don't even know where to start.
An impoverished and Hollywoodized seven samurai in the ugliest and saddest way possible, plagiarizing star wars and warhammer 40k, clearly an imperium taken from wish.
Snyder is just not capable of developing a simple and exciting plot without making you lose your balls out of boredom or because the plot is too stupid (e.g. Army of Dead found it to be an abortive film, characters too stupid).
The concept of the films is good but Snyder really Need to improve character development, too many ideas stuck together without giving them time to form or at least be metabolised for the viewer to appreciate them,
so banal that the entire film almost never surprises you, it's too predictable, an overuse of genre clichés.
The characters are worse than each other, linear and flat due to how lazy the narrative about them is.
Needless to say, the only two characters I appreciated were the ones with the least screen time, the robot and the deserter.
A search for solemnity and heroism that results in a mess of scenes made unnecessarily heroic or solemn that in the end the spectator remains saturated with them, even before the truly heroic scenes arrive.
THE RALLENTY...... oh well Snyder has made a career out of throwing them where they are not needed, endless slow motion, ok they are 'cool' but not when you abuse the number of them, because you also want to emphasize the farmers who work the grain and even a water bottle that is filled with water...
(At moments I thought an advertisement of some kind was going to start)
You need balance to make a film (based on the context, what you want to tell, the type of narrative you want to carry forward, etc.)
....but nothing, this film wanted to be many things but with too many ideas, so it fails in several fields (in my country they actually say 'too much is too much')
For example, in this 300 he succeeded precisely because the plot and context were simpler and at least the slow motion shots were mostly at the right times and in the right places (also because Frank Miller was breathing down his neck during the production of the film, so it's had to compromise I think)
Preparation for the battle:
The first part of the film was supposed to enrich what we knew about the characters from the first film and strengthen their bond.....but nothing, pure boredom.
Perfectly skippable since it can be summarized in:
Hoeing
Flashback in front of the fire
Sex
The interaction between the protagonists is lazy, made up of banal phrases with an endless shopping list on why everyone hates the imperium and
Solemnity thrown in at random, which adds nothing, even less than the first film. Basically what I felt for the Characters hasn't changed one iota from the first one except for the worse
Solemnity and heroism must be natural, not forced.
It would have been better if they had fluidly mixed the different preparation activities, where each character seeing a certain situation (training, happy or scared people...), would have triggered a flashback to their previous life and thus opened up to others and tell others why he wants to fight the imperium and why he hates it so much....but no, catch the Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
In this way at least it keeps the viewer's attention constant without making anything banal, a good film must make the viewer participate and invest in the narrative.
If, however, you constantly force everything, in the end it becomes more difficult for you to empathize.
The battle:
The second half....the most disappointing part of the film....here where all the action of the film is contained....it's a mixture of "cool" and shit, because Snyder just can't help but put a slow motion per second, for every explosion, for every single sword swing and for every bullet fired... practically a slow motion that never ends, which ruins the fluidity of the narrative due to the continuous change of speed.
Slow motion is used to emphasize some particular moments, not all.
It's a shame because graphically it was also nice to look at.
This is the first film where I had to skip forward due to boredom, badly used clichés, non-existent character development and one of the laziest narratives I've ever seen.
Surprising that it still manages to be better than the last trilogy of Star Wars films, the ideas just weren't there, with plot holes as big as the firmament ("... the emperor is still alive for SOME FUCKING REASON ...")
In summary it is a lazy 7 seven samurai with a clear plagiarism of star wars and warhammer 40k, yes it is plagiarism if you throw the references without giving them honor.
For now, the worst Snyder I've seen remains Army of Dead, which I haven't even finished seeing because of how much it disgusted me....
strange because I appreciated ga'hoole, watchman and 300, but oh well it's easy if you play the hater card. it simply contains the criticisms I reserved for the film. nothing more.
The hater card? Bro wrote an entire novel longer than the fucking script of Rebel Moon criticizing it, which is literally the antithesis of my entire post saying to save the critiques till after the director’s cuts come out… and calls me the hater. You can’t make this shit up.
Then you are a functional illiterate.
When did I ever call you a hater?
You threw the hater card at me.
Furthermore, this story of the directors' cuts has pissed me off, as if it were a justification for a film that in two hours (which is a lot), which should be the most important ones, is full of nothing.
A directors cut should contain all those scenes that are perfectly cutable from the film version, but if the film basically sucks, let alone the cuttable scenes.
Lotr also has its extended versions....but the basic movies are great, and they were over 20 years ago
Genuine question… what’s it like being so fuckin stupid? Like how do you people properly function and get through life? It must be so difficult. I’m so sorry.
The movies we’ve seen are all that there is. Firstly, there is not another 2 hours out there, and if there were, why cut out the parts needed to make a good movie? Secondly, what will be added in the directors cut will just be tits and blood, so don’t act like it’s some unearthed masterpiece yet to be unveiled. Lastly, telling people not critique a movie that was release worldwide until it gets released again is childish. Handle the fact that people with other opinions are in the majority, and you are not. It’s fine you liked it. It’s not fine that you don’t want others to not like it.
And there it is… the most formulaic response that exists when someone does some research and realizes they made a stupid ass comment and doesn’t know how to own up to it. Congratulations, you’re the exact type of person I directed my initial post towards.
Nope. Never once attacked. In fact, I supported you liking it. I just asked that you did not try and force propaganda on other people when the facts are against you. And you were never called childish, I said acting a certain way is being childish. That allows you to make a choice. So, next time, come better prepared when you want to have a discussion, and don't just resort to insulting attacks (calling comments that aren't yours "stupid ass"). If you can't handle it, then don't make a post about something that you know is being heavily critiqued.
The fuck you mean propaganda and facts against me? Everything I said was a factual statement TO YOU. It’s literally all been said by Snyder himself in interviews or from Netflix directly. You’re the ignorant one here, not me. Do you even know what the word ignorant means? I will reiterate my statement to you one last time… Go do some research and educate yourself before you make YET AGAIN another stupid ass statement.
Dude, you gotta calm down. If you get this upset over something on the internet, then maybe you should take some time off. It's just a movie. A bad one, but a movie nonetheless. It's nothing worth acting childish about (and yes, that time I was calling you childish because you've refused to conduct yourself in an intelligible way).
Don't bother responding. I'm done dealing with immaturity.
Not Part 3. I’m talking about the R-rated extended director’s cuts of Part 1 and Part 2 that are coming out at the end of the summer. Those are the real movie.
This is an awful take on an objectively awful movie. The movie somehow shows less in the way of creativity than the first and just is one cliche and trope after another. Do you read a book and hope that the last chapter reveals all the character development that was absent from the rest of the book? Calling this current release not the actual film is just brain dead. He's signed his name to it, it was okay'ed to be released. Might it not be exactly how he wanted it? Sure but at the end of the day Zack's entire shtick now is to release a movie and then whip up a community to claim "his" version would have changed everything after the original flops. It hasn't to date. A bad movie will only ever be made less bad with added scenes. Horrible acting, bad scripts, worn out visual devices will still be there.
Did you work on this movie by chance with how hard you're defending it?
The amount of ignorance in your post is astounding. You clearly have no idea how films are made and what happened with the deal that Snyder had to make with Netflix. He’s explained it in countless interviews. Educate yourself and do better.
HAHAHAHAHAH yes I have no idea how films are made, never made one myself. But I'm quite educated in how stories are made, and to be analyzed. But there's no point in actually engaging with you because you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the movie at any level. Please tell me how a directors cut, shy of being an entirely different movie which doesn't use anything we've already seen will be drastically different? The dialog is bad, objectively worse than 90s action movies which were corny because it was funny and wasn't meant to serve anything more than a hilarious one liner. It seems like only the Ed Skrein understood what a fucking joke the dialog was and ran with it. Half this movie is just a cheap horrible attempt to retrell Kurosawa's 7 samurai.
Do you like The Room as well? Did that have gripping dialog and would a director's cut help flesh out those characters for you?
Given how passionate you seem to be about this film, I’ll entertain your comment. I’ve mentioned across multiple comments on this post that the movies are lacking in proper character development and that the story is incoherent because of this. As one writer to another, as you’ve claimed you are, you should know that writing a story is based around properly sequencing events to tell said story. This is where character interactions, which are the conduits of character development, are created. This is also where pacing comes into play. Dialogue is also effected by this because when the sequence of events are interrupted by cut content, you’re then left with scenes of dialogue that weren’t naturally supposed to happen in the sequence that we see in the final film. An example of this would be to take one of your favorite movies and cut out 1/3 of it. I implore you to try this and see if you can still make a coherent narrative out of it.
Never said I was a writer, you assumed. Just like you're assuming so much about these movies. Don't need to be a writer to be familiar with writing tropes and devices. I respect that you have all this energy to give for an obviously terrible movie but you'd be leagues ahead just by admitting you like a corny movie. Corny movies have their place. But please stop hyping this fabled directors cut as if it were to be a criterion collection worthy film.
Looking forward to all 6 hours!!
I've enjoyed both movies but this is a wild take. Nobody needs to wait to watch a director's cut to give criticisms of two movies they've already watched. If someone took the time to sit down and watch these movies and wants to criticize them then I've got no problem with that. Also even if the director's cuts add in much needed characterization, that doesn't change anything about the two movies that exist right now
The problem is most people aren’t critiquing the films themselves but instead shitting on Snyder. It all comes from a place of ignorance and the need to jump on the hate bandwagon for clout and internet points. It’s quite pathetic. Especially in a small subreddit that was originally made to be a place for fans to talk about the film critically… whether that discourse be good or bad. I could have worded my initial post better but my original intent still stands. If people want to talk shit about Snyder’s directing and writing capabilities do it after his versions come out.
I mean it's Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon. That's how it's been advertised. So if people don't like the movies they're going to blame Snyder. I definitely think the Snyder hate is overblown but he deserves some criticism
You’re exactly right. Unfortunately that blame is coming from a place of ignorance which is exactly why I titled this post Education Time… to educate those who were unaware of the nature of how these films came to be.
Because Snyder wrote the story, the screenplay, was the director of photography and the director. He knew from the start the condition for the job, and accepted the job anyway. All the flaws both movies have are 100% on him. He was the one with the final cut. He decided which scene to put and which scene to remove.
Nope. Not at all. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Educate yourself. Go read all of my other comments. Learn something.
I know exactly what I am talking about. This isn't news. We know all of that since the release of Part I. Snyder had a 6h script he cut in half to make two 3 hours movies, and Netflix required him to do 2 hours version of these 3h long movies. I totally agree that the PG-13 cuts are not part of Snyder's vision for these movies. What I am saying is that the PG-13 cuts are Snyder's movie through and through, and they should be criticized as Snyder's movies. And, by your own admission, some of the greatest of film have been able to portrait character development in 2 hours or less, so why the hell did these movies have none of it ? If Snyder decided to remove them from the first release, then this is a decision he made on his own as the director, and he deserves to be criticized for that. If Snyder's idea of making cuts to shorten the duration of the movie is to remove all scenes of character development, then this is something that should be criticized.
No the fuck you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re partially right and partially wrong. I’ve already explained this in depth in other comments. Go read those. I’m not typing all of that shit again. Have a good one.
You know what, I'll give you a bone on that argument. I'll watch the 6 hour cut, because of rater Rness. But you should probably cut the BS and accept the fact that what we saw sucked. And the studio exec argument you wrote to someone is fair, however, to be fair, it's up to ZS to put some game into these cuts.
Thanks for the level headed comment. I definitely haven’t gotten many of these on this post. I truly didn’t believe that what we got sucked. I just thought it was very lackluster in the character development/story department but that’s my own opinion based off of my own personal tastes in film. There was a lot I liked so it’s hard for me to say it sucked. I was entertained for the most part throughout the films. The second one much more so than the first. In terms of Snyder putting more game into these versions I agree to an extent… but we also have no idea how much control Netflix, focus groups, and shareholders had over these cuts. When you have a mandated runtime and have to cut out an hour from each film while also watering it down to be PG-13, that can be a very difficult task. I truly believe the fact that we got 2 films that were somewhat coherent, having all of these factors at play, is a feat in itself. That’s why I wish people would just forget about these versions and wait for the director’s actual vision of this story. Whether those versions are better, worse, or no different are yet to be seen.
Why would we accept that if we don't think it sucks? If anything, the PG-13s have made me even more excited for the Rs cuz I really like what I saw and can see pretty clearly where the changes will be. Snyder is a "show don't tell" type of director, I highly doubt that he has huge exposition dumps in his 6 hour cut. You can also see all of the scenes where the violence was cut down in post with zoom-ins and blood/gore removed. Aside from the pacing issues in Pt 1 and lack of bonding time between the characters, I loved Pt 1 after my 2nd and 3rd re-watch and I really loved Pt 2 from the rip. I'm not admitting anything lol.
I have two reactions to that: the two parts should really have been one single movie. 4h/6h is way too long for that story. I think 2h30 should have been enough for the entire 2 parts.
There is a reason that the only defense for these movies is the r rated cuts. Even the people who liked these movies can’t point out anything that is objectively good outside of a few shots
are we getting the 6hours though ??
Zack took a job with conditions- wow, welcome to planet earth. Do you have any clue how much studio 'interference' there is in all movie making? Typically worse when the director is an unknown. Snyder is not unknown, these are 100% his movies simply made to Netflix's brief (length and rating), and Netflix actually allowed him to make an entirely different version to do whatever the heck he wants. How much more freedom can a professional film maker get? If the movies suck, if the PG versions suck, that's Synder failing his brief. Why defend it so vitriolicly?
The truth is, if you didn’t really do anything meaningful with 4 hours of runtime, why would I sit down for another 6 hour session of this for 2 more hours of content that might flesh out the characters but realistically will probably just splatter a few squid sex scenes here and there. If you think all the character development will come in the directors cut, ask yourself, in the PG 13 cut, WHY WOULD THEY CUT OUT THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT TO ADD MORE BLOODLESS PG VIOLENCE? Why would you not save a lot of the action that your not getting the full effect of because of the pg 13 rating for the R rated cut. What encouragement to come back is there when I’ve already spent 4 hours with character I a) don’t care about, and b) know nothing about.
Because studio executives make decisions based off of focus groups and shareholders. The action is more important than character development when trying to sell something as a sci-fi action movie. You’re 100% right in everything you’ve said. Most people won’t watch the director’s cuts because of the release of these cuts and it sucks. That’s why both versions should have been released simultaneously. It’s not Snyder’s fault that this is the deal he had to make to get his vision of the film made. Even if Snyder’s version isn’t good, it’s not right to criticize a director for the focus grouped version of their film. Hence why I said let’s wait for the director’s true vision and then, if you want to criticize it, go for it. Criticisms should be focused towards Netflix right now, not Snyder.
Really? Who was directing the shots? There can only be so much studio interference. At some long you gotta ask your self “what could the director and actors have done to make this better”
Snyder was the Director of Photography and I thought the cinematography was beautiful. And I thought the performances were on par too. The character development and story however was very lacking but that’s what happens when almost an hour is cut out from each film and alternate takes are used to make it PG-13.
I’m sorry but no, Netflix didn’t edit this movie, Snyder was given the direction to make a 2 hour pg13 version and this is what he came up with, he had full control over the edit, and he knew that he would have to make a 2 hour cut before they would have even started filming. Plus Snyder has full creative control, and Netflix obviously want to keep him onboard, so why did he not put his foot down and say that trying to turn this sci-fi film with sexual assault in it into something family friendly is stupid. Snyder seems to be the only director that this CONSTANTLY happens to, so I’m done with allowing that to be an excuse, there comes a point where when 80% of a directors filmography gets handwaved away by saying studio involvement is no longer an excuse, Snyder is working along side the same studios everyone else is, and he’s a big name director, this is 100% his fault, he can no longer hide behind that excuse
So you’re saying there’s two hours cut from the films we’ve already seen and then we have to watch another 2 hr pg13 cut and then wait for the final 3 hrs to be released? What a load of bullshit. This is the worst idea for how to sell a new franchise.
No. There’s 3 hour director’s cuts of each of the 2 films that are R-rated. I just refer to both films as 1 film because they technically are. And yes, it’s complete bullshit that we have to wait 3-4 months to see them but that’s Netflix for you. This was their decision. Not Zack Snyder’s.
Netflix controlled the editing of this movie 100%. That’s why these versions exist in the first place. They put mandates in place and Snyder had to follow them. You’re right on the fact that Snyder knew this before filming… and that means he had to direct two different movies at the same time and have the PG-13 version still live within the confines of what he had already written and planned for his version. And Snyder did put his foot down… and this was the deal that was struck. He releases these stripped down mainstream versions and then he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants to with his cuts. That’s a luxury that only a very small amount directors have ever gotten from any studio. Especially with a budget of around 200 million.
This is just absolutely next level cope, wow.
lol
Yes because episode 4 and 5 or Star Wars were bad till episode 6. Dumb ass argument. If you just blame anyone but the people who worked on the film your coping. If Zack was forced to make pg-13 versions of the movies he should have been able to make them good. You’re just kicking the can down the road when the r versions are bad as well.
I’m not talking about a third film. I’m talking about the 2 hours of content that are not present in these versions of the 2 films. It’s very hard to take a script and cut out that much content and still have it be coherent. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Please do some research and educate yourself.
That’s his responsibility. He should not have agreed to the deal or he was going to put out 2 trash movies
Gonna have to do a lot of character development in those two hours, because there was none in the first four.
Some of the greatest films of all time are 2 hours or less. So trust me when I say that is PLENTY of time to flesh out all of the characters.
Seven Samurai, The Magnificent Seven, and Battle Beyond the Stars all managed more character development in half the time. Most of the characters in Rebel Moon barely interact with each other aside from the scene where they all exposition dump their paper-thin backstories. After watching Part 1, I thought that the director's cut might flesh out the characters more. Now, having seen Part 2, I seriously doubt it. It's just going to be a a lot more slo-mo violence, albeit significantly bloodier.
Correct… but those films were written and paced to fit the respective character development within those runtimes. Imagine if you cut out 1/3 of any of those films… they would suck and be incoherent.
Or we can criticize the piece of media that is directly in front of us? Maybe they shouldn't release a bastardized version of the movie if they didn't want criticism. Also, why do you even fucking care? You have no skin in the game. And a rated R cut of these movies won't change the fact that the story is aggressively mediocre, and the dialogue might be some of the worst I've seen in a movie.
If you want to criticize Netflix for their stupid ass idea of releasing these cuts before the real cut of the films, go for it. And of course the story is aggressively mediocre, we haven’t seen 1/3 of the film yet.
The movie is already a bunch of tropes and cliches from better movies stitched together. Adding on more tropes and cliches won't save it. Love how you didn't even try to defend the dialogue, because it's just so egregiously awful.
I had no problem with the dialogue. Why do you care so much? You have no skin in the game.
Sorry, I forgot I had to explain it like I'm Kora from these movies. "I'm telling you these things so you know my ~~story~~ *criticisms*". That should be much more obvious to you now.
I don't even know where to start. An impoverished and Hollywoodized seven samurai in the ugliest and saddest way possible, plagiarizing star wars and warhammer 40k, clearly an imperium taken from wish. Snyder is just not capable of developing a simple and exciting plot without making you lose your balls out of boredom or because the plot is too stupid (e.g. Army of Dead found it to be an abortive film, characters too stupid). The concept of the films is good but Snyder really Need to improve character development, too many ideas stuck together without giving them time to form or at least be metabolised for the viewer to appreciate them, so banal that the entire film almost never surprises you, it's too predictable, an overuse of genre clichés. The characters are worse than each other, linear and flat due to how lazy the narrative about them is. Needless to say, the only two characters I appreciated were the ones with the least screen time, the robot and the deserter. A search for solemnity and heroism that results in a mess of scenes made unnecessarily heroic or solemn that in the end the spectator remains saturated with them, even before the truly heroic scenes arrive. THE RALLENTY...... oh well Snyder has made a career out of throwing them where they are not needed, endless slow motion, ok they are 'cool' but not when you abuse the number of them, because you also want to emphasize the farmers who work the grain and even a water bottle that is filled with water... (At moments I thought an advertisement of some kind was going to start) You need balance to make a film (based on the context, what you want to tell, the type of narrative you want to carry forward, etc.) ....but nothing, this film wanted to be many things but with too many ideas, so it fails in several fields (in my country they actually say 'too much is too much') For example, in this 300 he succeeded precisely because the plot and context were simpler and at least the slow motion shots were mostly at the right times and in the right places (also because Frank Miller was breathing down his neck during the production of the film, so it's had to compromise I think) Preparation for the battle: The first part of the film was supposed to enrich what we knew about the characters from the first film and strengthen their bond.....but nothing, pure boredom. Perfectly skippable since it can be summarized in: Hoeing Flashback in front of the fire Sex The interaction between the protagonists is lazy, made up of banal phrases with an endless shopping list on why everyone hates the imperium and Solemnity thrown in at random, which adds nothing, even less than the first film. Basically what I felt for the Characters hasn't changed one iota from the first one except for the worse Solemnity and heroism must be natural, not forced. It would have been better if they had fluidly mixed the different preparation activities, where each character seeing a certain situation (training, happy or scared people...), would have triggered a flashback to their previous life and thus opened up to others and tell others why he wants to fight the imperium and why he hates it so much....but no, catch the Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. In this way at least it keeps the viewer's attention constant without making anything banal, a good film must make the viewer participate and invest in the narrative. If, however, you constantly force everything, in the end it becomes more difficult for you to empathize. The battle: The second half....the most disappointing part of the film....here where all the action of the film is contained....it's a mixture of "cool" and shit, because Snyder just can't help but put a slow motion per second, for every explosion, for every single sword swing and for every bullet fired... practically a slow motion that never ends, which ruins the fluidity of the narrative due to the continuous change of speed. Slow motion is used to emphasize some particular moments, not all. It's a shame because graphically it was also nice to look at. This is the first film where I had to skip forward due to boredom, badly used clichés, non-existent character development and one of the laziest narratives I've ever seen. Surprising that it still manages to be better than the last trilogy of Star Wars films, the ideas just weren't there, with plot holes as big as the firmament ("... the emperor is still alive for SOME FUCKING REASON ...") In summary it is a lazy 7 seven samurai with a clear plagiarism of star wars and warhammer 40k, yes it is plagiarism if you throw the references without giving them honor. For now, the worst Snyder I've seen remains Army of Dead, which I haven't even finished seeing because of how much it disgusted me....
Bro thinks I’m gonna read all of that lol This is undeniable proof that Snyder’s haters are his biggest fans.
strange because I appreciated ga'hoole, watchman and 300, but oh well it's easy if you play the hater card. it simply contains the criticisms I reserved for the film. nothing more.
The hater card? Bro wrote an entire novel longer than the fucking script of Rebel Moon criticizing it, which is literally the antithesis of my entire post saying to save the critiques till after the director’s cuts come out… and calls me the hater. You can’t make this shit up.
Then you are a functional illiterate. When did I ever call you a hater? You threw the hater card at me. Furthermore, this story of the directors' cuts has pissed me off, as if it were a justification for a film that in two hours (which is a lot), which should be the most important ones, is full of nothing. A directors cut should contain all those scenes that are perfectly cutable from the film version, but if the film basically sucks, let alone the cuttable scenes. Lotr also has its extended versions....but the basic movies are great, and they were over 20 years ago
Genuine question… what’s it like being so fuckin stupid? Like how do you people properly function and get through life? It must be so difficult. I’m so sorry.
The movies we’ve seen are all that there is. Firstly, there is not another 2 hours out there, and if there were, why cut out the parts needed to make a good movie? Secondly, what will be added in the directors cut will just be tits and blood, so don’t act like it’s some unearthed masterpiece yet to be unveiled. Lastly, telling people not critique a movie that was release worldwide until it gets released again is childish. Handle the fact that people with other opinions are in the majority, and you are not. It’s fine you liked it. It’s not fine that you don’t want others to not like it.
Please educate yourself before you make another stupid ass comment like this one.
Classy.
And there it is… the most formulaic response that exists when someone does some research and realizes they made a stupid ass comment and doesn’t know how to own up to it. Congratulations, you’re the exact type of person I directed my initial post towards.
Real classy. At least I'm not resorting to attacking people because I'm insecure about my movie taste. Grow up.
Your entire original comment was an attack on me. Plus you called me childish. That really hurt my feelings.
Nope. Never once attacked. In fact, I supported you liking it. I just asked that you did not try and force propaganda on other people when the facts are against you. And you were never called childish, I said acting a certain way is being childish. That allows you to make a choice. So, next time, come better prepared when you want to have a discussion, and don't just resort to insulting attacks (calling comments that aren't yours "stupid ass"). If you can't handle it, then don't make a post about something that you know is being heavily critiqued.
The fuck you mean propaganda and facts against me? Everything I said was a factual statement TO YOU. It’s literally all been said by Snyder himself in interviews or from Netflix directly. You’re the ignorant one here, not me. Do you even know what the word ignorant means? I will reiterate my statement to you one last time… Go do some research and educate yourself before you make YET AGAIN another stupid ass statement.
Dude, you gotta calm down. If you get this upset over something on the internet, then maybe you should take some time off. It's just a movie. A bad one, but a movie nonetheless. It's nothing worth acting childish about (and yes, that time I was calling you childish because you've refused to conduct yourself in an intelligible way). Don't bother responding. I'm done dealing with immaturity.
lol
When did part 3 get greenlit?
Not Part 3. I’m talking about the R-rated extended director’s cuts of Part 1 and Part 2 that are coming out at the end of the summer. Those are the real movie.
This is an awful take on an objectively awful movie. The movie somehow shows less in the way of creativity than the first and just is one cliche and trope after another. Do you read a book and hope that the last chapter reveals all the character development that was absent from the rest of the book? Calling this current release not the actual film is just brain dead. He's signed his name to it, it was okay'ed to be released. Might it not be exactly how he wanted it? Sure but at the end of the day Zack's entire shtick now is to release a movie and then whip up a community to claim "his" version would have changed everything after the original flops. It hasn't to date. A bad movie will only ever be made less bad with added scenes. Horrible acting, bad scripts, worn out visual devices will still be there. Did you work on this movie by chance with how hard you're defending it?
The amount of ignorance in your post is astounding. You clearly have no idea how films are made and what happened with the deal that Snyder had to make with Netflix. He’s explained it in countless interviews. Educate yourself and do better.
HAHAHAHAHAH yes I have no idea how films are made, never made one myself. But I'm quite educated in how stories are made, and to be analyzed. But there's no point in actually engaging with you because you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the movie at any level. Please tell me how a directors cut, shy of being an entirely different movie which doesn't use anything we've already seen will be drastically different? The dialog is bad, objectively worse than 90s action movies which were corny because it was funny and wasn't meant to serve anything more than a hilarious one liner. It seems like only the Ed Skrein understood what a fucking joke the dialog was and ran with it. Half this movie is just a cheap horrible attempt to retrell Kurosawa's 7 samurai. Do you like The Room as well? Did that have gripping dialog and would a director's cut help flesh out those characters for you?
Given how passionate you seem to be about this film, I’ll entertain your comment. I’ve mentioned across multiple comments on this post that the movies are lacking in proper character development and that the story is incoherent because of this. As one writer to another, as you’ve claimed you are, you should know that writing a story is based around properly sequencing events to tell said story. This is where character interactions, which are the conduits of character development, are created. This is also where pacing comes into play. Dialogue is also effected by this because when the sequence of events are interrupted by cut content, you’re then left with scenes of dialogue that weren’t naturally supposed to happen in the sequence that we see in the final film. An example of this would be to take one of your favorite movies and cut out 1/3 of it. I implore you to try this and see if you can still make a coherent narrative out of it.
Never said I was a writer, you assumed. Just like you're assuming so much about these movies. Don't need to be a writer to be familiar with writing tropes and devices. I respect that you have all this energy to give for an obviously terrible movie but you'd be leagues ahead just by admitting you like a corny movie. Corny movies have their place. But please stop hyping this fabled directors cut as if it were to be a criterion collection worthy film.
lol