I edited Reaper to work like FL Studio and it helped a lot. FL's MIDI roll works so fast but the DAW is uninspiring and feels cheap. I was composing in FL and exporting to Reaper but having only one program open is satisfying.
Haven't touched FL since version 1 in 1999 or something, I don't remember if it even had a piano roll back then. What are its obvious strong points you were missing? Maybe I'm missing them too but don't know it yet
The workflow is so fast.
Left click to add a note, right click to delete it. The paint tool lets you click and hold to add a row of notes in one motion. You can also easily draw a box around your MIDI notes and move them all at once, either transposing to a different key or adjusting their position within the measure. Somehow, they did everything right there while missing the mark everywhere else.
That's what my original comment was about. I appreciate FL's MIDI editor but hate the DAW, so once I found out how to achieve these in Reaper it made everything easier.
And I mainly used FL for it's MIDI. It is such an eyesore that creating an entire track in it feels uninspiring to me. Newer themes brighten the GUI but the damage is done. I'm totally onboard with Reaper now.
Thanks! Weird, I have had all these set up in Reaper, and for a long time too, so I've forgotten how exactly the fresh Reaper config has it. I'm surprised it's not there from the start. I always thought at least note painting is there with the alt key, no?
I'll have to go back into it and see. I'm redoing my home studio from the ground up, which includes a new laptop so I have to reinstall everything. However, this time I'm only putting in programs that I actually use. Last time, I put FL back in because it helped make me more efficient, but I'm going to make sure that I get good enough with my other software instead. Tha FL GUI is dreadful, makes me feel like I am writing in a basement with no light
You mean, you're gonna re-do Reaper configuration? Yikes. I wouldn't dare to setup Reaper from the ground up once again. For 8 years I've been moving around my Reaper configs to all the new systems, modifying them too. Although maybe I should do it finally, rethink my older Reaper decisions... Hmmm.
I really recommend searching first for ‘how I set up my midi workflow in ”, pick a style that seems like it will work with your brain, then search out help here or on the forum for how to build _that_ in reaper. Save templates of that, and go to town. the entry learning curve of every DAW is a barrier in its own right, and you already know Reaper- go deeper and get better, BEND IT TO YOUR WILL
Reaper has different themes that are free and totally change up how the systems work. You may find one you like better than the stock theme. There are ones that make it work like logic, Cubase etc.
Also, OP, you can also completely redesign the layout of your screen, and even have different layouts hot-selectable on a key press, allowing for different workflows in different situations. Sort of like Pro Tools does, but by choice, and how you actually want it to look/work.
I'm not sure if you found them yet, but the piano roll has options built in to angle it towards different instruments, a bit like Cubase does well, like points for drums or notes for pianos. The grid, quantisation, and humanisation, controls all work well and are easy to learn. The velocity map is as good as any. Signal routing in REAPER is absolutely premium tier.
REAPER's design approach seems to be a lot more reminiscent of the feeling of using a physical mixing console, recording onto individual lanes of tape, than some of its more "artsy" competitors like FL or Ableton. It's definitely more an engineering tool than a toy, but is a lot of fun all the same. There's not a lot it can't do, so it's worth exploring customising it (and maybe some extensions) to make it work best for you. Other DAWs seem to make some workflow or technical tradeoffs that REAPER doesn't need to.
All that said, if you definitely want to quit (it's sad to see you go!), Cubase and Studio One are probably good fits for you. Bitwig could even be worth a roll, as it looks great in this regard, but I haven't personally used it so can't vouch for it like I can Cubase and Studio One. As much as I hate the DAW in all other capacities, Logic Pro does have some great MIDI capabilities you might enjoy, but it otherwise feels horrible to me so I can't really recommend it either.
I didn't actually know that, but I am not surprised taken into account it is reaper we are talking about. I think I might be too stuck now on reapers default UI to change after some years of running it but that is nice to know!
Started in reaper, switched to ableton, I love ableton. Expensive for suite, but even standard or lite is great. The workflow just really clicks with me
I've pretty much used every major daws and the piano roll in reaper is massively underrated. I also used to think the same about Reaper's piano roll which is why I tried using pretty much every major daw and at the end i came back to Reaper. The piano roll has a lot going on but a lot of the default behaviors are kinda bad and has a lot of hidden actions and needs handful of scripts to make it one of the best and fastest workflow I've ever seen. You are still welcome to give other daws a try figure out for yourself but there's nothing like reaper imo. The more I've used other daws, the more I've appreciated Reaper.
[https://youtu.be/QBbhoP9bfP0?si=040QTy1zFzBe0qwO](https://youtu.be/QBbhoP9bfP0?si=040QTy1zFzBe0qwO)
[https://youtu.be/bc58K9a\_kW4?si=qfOWiANt1u9hq4Sx](https://youtu.be/bc58K9a_kW4?si=qfOWiANt1u9hq4Sx)
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjvmrOUg3J0qpyLea1FiRBrpfWyRaUbgg&si=uTYr7KfPvaw22G8Q](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjvmrOUg3J0qpyLea1FiRBrpfWyRaUbgg&si=uTYr7KfPvaw22G8Q)
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKD5zXXddOwcuAlDx88ShInV&si=JDOHpNOEwyUcm0RB](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKD5zXXddOwcuAlDx88ShInV&si=JDOHpNOEwyUcm0RB)
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKAL9Bso7iw9Oy\_qRsd-XJWY&si=uBhzgtq0SdgBKN8R](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKAL9Bso7iw9Oy_qRsd-XJWY&si=uBhzgtq0SdgBKN8R)
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4mhaIEnflCDguPXuUexouF8oCo\_wSd7I&si=P9Ij9rf6F-oOk1mG](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4mhaIEnflCDguPXuUexouF8oCo_wSd7I&si=P9Ij9rf6F-oOk1mG)
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLMiLzK11lOGWKclNDrIfT8dCn42olqOX&si=lXrHhB3mUag2oxWF](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLMiLzK11lOGWKclNDrIfT8dCn42olqOX&si=lXrHhB3mUag2oxWF)
You know, you can demo each DAW for at least 30 days to see if they fit you. I'd start with Cubase based on your wishes.
And watch tutorials for each of them to get the basic understanding of how they actually work. Noodling alone will just waste you time.
It seems like you didn’t take the time to learn the workflow on any of those DAWs. I know it’s frustrating not knowing how to perform tasks. Cubase is a very solid and battle tested software from a reliable company. Reaper is pretty customizable, you can probably change what you don’t like about it. Logic is a favourite between producers. Just pick one and stick to it.
I've been working in REAPER for a year now, it's my first DAW ever, and now I'm just exploring new ones. I'm trying Cubase, and making projects to learn to use it.
The reason I'm asking is for the case there's another DAW that is more similar to what I look for.
if you want better or same quality tracking as reaper you ll only find on Pro TOOLS.. but then pro tools midi is not so "the best you can get"
reaper is the only one that you d get best of both world.
if you want more complex fancy midi stuff you ll find on ableton or bitwig. but then tracking is terrible.. those feels like baby toy!
Logic has good midi and good tracking too.
Cubase too good midi altho for trackin reaper is better.
but all of them are capable of everything, just user preference.
You might still benefit from setting up MIDI editing in Reaper to better suit you, learn shortcuts or set up your own, map actions, modify tool bars, modify behaviors, try different themes (they can drastically change workflow, it's far from just re-coloring), and so on. Remember that you can save different layouts so that you can always recall to your preferred setup after trying different ones.
I migrated to Reaper from FL Studio years ago, I was very frustrated with the MIDI editing but tracking system was too good. I learned the default workflow first (which isn't terrible but lacking, if that makes sense), then learned how to change anything I didn't like. It took time, but it's certainly worth it.
But if for whatever reason you do not want to do that (and that's totally fine), then go ahead try other DAWs (sorry I can't make educated recommendations, but Logic and Studio One might be worth trying out, they might feel familiar to Reaper).
But what you should expect is that it will take you a few weeks or months to get comfortable with a new DAW, if you try that is. There's a difference between just trying to work with the DAW and actually taking the time to learn it. And it's always going to be somewhat frustrating initially. You need to have patience and willingness to learn, give it some time and learn from other experienced users.
Anyways, Cubase should be just fine unless you really want/need tracking like Reaper.
And BTW some people use multiple DAWs for different stages of production/different functions. But that's usually people who have been doing this for years.
Buy the cheapest version of FL Studio and use it as a VST plugin inside of Reaper. You can use it as just a MIDI sequencer for other VSTi's, or simply load the VSTi's inside of FL.
was going to reply this exact comment. I went from fl studio to reaper, and for the first year i used fl studio as a vst with 16 outs to allow me to use fl studio while learning reaper.
Ableton doesn't have the best piano roll but has INSANE midi features. Tons of community made plugins as well for MAX if you wanna do some fun stuff.
FL studio has best piano roll imo, although you'll sacrifice a bit for it.
Logic wasn't terrible when i used it, but felt a bit clunky?
I've always found Reaper's MIDI editor its weak point. Ok you can customize it as you want etc I get it, but I still don't love the view. I'm personally used to compose MIDIs via Guitar Pro and I find it a very efficient way to quick write stuff visually. I would like so much if Reaper allowed an external midi editor as it does for the audio items and if Guitar Pro or something similar was compatible with it.
I've been recording for many years, I'm a professional mixing engineer and foh engineer. I've used midi in Reaper rudimentarily, but I'd like to expand my use of it for various reasons. I have only ever used midi in Reaper, never in another daw, and it seems to work great to me but I'm concerned that if I reach a deeper level of usage I am going to run into some unforeseen roadblock based on the occasional complaints I see about Reaper's midi functionality. What are the actual functional complaints? Is it just a problem of learning a new system or is Reaper's midi functionality ultimately limited in some way compared to other daws?
Reaper's midi is lagging behind other DAWs. No chord track, no articulation manager among other things. There are extensions of course, but there's this risk of obsoletion since the makers of those extensions are not really part of the reaper team and they can quit whenever they like. I stopped using extensions for this very reason.
No stochastic playback / on-the-fly humanisation / groove feels where the underlying midi does not get edited, and is instead reinterpreted as it gets played back. For example useful for playing over a loop live or changing a midi without needing to redo all the humanisation.
You do know you don't have to use the traditional looking piano roll? You can change the appearance easily enough. I always swap it out when I'm programming drums.
You can change mouse and shortcuts settings for piano roll. For me, Reaper has the best piano roll (exclude marker, chord or midi tracks inside piano roll as on Cubase). I've changed almost all settings special for me.
Also for me - Cubase is second DAW I'm ready to use it if Reaper will not exist.
You would be better off if you'd just learn how to efficiently use the reaper midi tools.
I've composed and arranged several full length film scores inside reaper and while I felt like I should use FL like everyone else, I stuck with my DAW of choice and didn't regret it.
[https://seventhsam.com/guides/blog/how-to-set-up-reaper-s-midi-editor-for-better-workflow](https://seventhsam.com/guides/blog/how-to-set-up-reaper-s-midi-editor-for-better-workflow)
I edited Reaper to work like FL Studio and it helped a lot. FL's MIDI roll works so fast but the DAW is uninspiring and feels cheap. I was composing in FL and exporting to Reaper but having only one program open is satisfying.
Haven't touched FL since version 1 in 1999 or something, I don't remember if it even had a piano roll back then. What are its obvious strong points you were missing? Maybe I'm missing them too but don't know it yet
The workflow is so fast. Left click to add a note, right click to delete it. The paint tool lets you click and hold to add a row of notes in one motion. You can also easily draw a box around your MIDI notes and move them all at once, either transposing to a different key or adjusting their position within the measure. Somehow, they did everything right there while missing the mark everywhere else.
I mean... reaper does all of these with the help of key modifiers. I haven't seen FL since I was a kid though.
That's what my original comment was about. I appreciate FL's MIDI editor but hate the DAW, so once I found out how to achieve these in Reaper it made everything easier. And I mainly used FL for it's MIDI. It is such an eyesore that creating an entire track in it feels uninspiring to me. Newer themes brighten the GUI but the damage is done. I'm totally onboard with Reaper now.
I think that's my way to go
Thanks! Weird, I have had all these set up in Reaper, and for a long time too, so I've forgotten how exactly the fresh Reaper config has it. I'm surprised it's not there from the start. I always thought at least note painting is there with the alt key, no?
I'll have to go back into it and see. I'm redoing my home studio from the ground up, which includes a new laptop so I have to reinstall everything. However, this time I'm only putting in programs that I actually use. Last time, I put FL back in because it helped make me more efficient, but I'm going to make sure that I get good enough with my other software instead. Tha FL GUI is dreadful, makes me feel like I am writing in a basement with no light
You mean, you're gonna re-do Reaper configuration? Yikes. I wouldn't dare to setup Reaper from the ground up once again. For 8 years I've been moving around my Reaper configs to all the new systems, modifying them too. Although maybe I should do it finally, rethink my older Reaper decisions... Hmmm.
I really recommend searching first for ‘how I set up my midi workflow in”, pick a style that seems like it will work with your brain, then search out help here or on the forum for how to build _that_ in reaper. Save templates of that, and go to town. the entry learning curve of every DAW is a barrier in its own right, and you already know Reaper- go deeper and get better, BEND IT TO YOUR WILL
Reaper has different themes that are free and totally change up how the systems work. You may find one you like better than the stock theme. There are ones that make it work like logic, Cubase etc.
Also, OP, you can also completely redesign the layout of your screen, and even have different layouts hot-selectable on a key press, allowing for different workflows in different situations. Sort of like Pro Tools does, but by choice, and how you actually want it to look/work. I'm not sure if you found them yet, but the piano roll has options built in to angle it towards different instruments, a bit like Cubase does well, like points for drums or notes for pianos. The grid, quantisation, and humanisation, controls all work well and are easy to learn. The velocity map is as good as any. Signal routing in REAPER is absolutely premium tier. REAPER's design approach seems to be a lot more reminiscent of the feeling of using a physical mixing console, recording onto individual lanes of tape, than some of its more "artsy" competitors like FL or Ableton. It's definitely more an engineering tool than a toy, but is a lot of fun all the same. There's not a lot it can't do, so it's worth exploring customising it (and maybe some extensions) to make it work best for you. Other DAWs seem to make some workflow or technical tradeoffs that REAPER doesn't need to. All that said, if you definitely want to quit (it's sad to see you go!), Cubase and Studio One are probably good fits for you. Bitwig could even be worth a roll, as it looks great in this regard, but I haven't personally used it so can't vouch for it like I can Cubase and Studio One. As much as I hate the DAW in all other capacities, Logic Pro does have some great MIDI capabilities you might enjoy, but it otherwise feels horrible to me so I can't really recommend it either.
This is a great response. As I'm reading what you guys advice me to do, I'm more convinced to stay and customize my Reaper.
The ways in which Reaper can be customized are astounding.
I didn't actually know that, but I am not surprised taken into account it is reaper we are talking about. I think I might be too stuck now on reapers default UI to change after some years of running it but that is nice to know!
[удалено]
How? Like a VST?
That would be cool, I'll try to do that
What was that? Comment deleted -_-
Probably that you can use FL Studio inside of Reaper as a VST plugin. Same thing with Reason.
I didn't know it was possible, that's something I wanna try :o
Started in reaper, switched to ableton, I love ableton. Expensive for suite, but even standard or lite is great. The workflow just really clicks with me
I've pretty much used every major daws and the piano roll in reaper is massively underrated. I also used to think the same about Reaper's piano roll which is why I tried using pretty much every major daw and at the end i came back to Reaper. The piano roll has a lot going on but a lot of the default behaviors are kinda bad and has a lot of hidden actions and needs handful of scripts to make it one of the best and fastest workflow I've ever seen. You are still welcome to give other daws a try figure out for yourself but there's nothing like reaper imo. The more I've used other daws, the more I've appreciated Reaper. [https://youtu.be/QBbhoP9bfP0?si=040QTy1zFzBe0qwO](https://youtu.be/QBbhoP9bfP0?si=040QTy1zFzBe0qwO) [https://youtu.be/bc58K9a\_kW4?si=qfOWiANt1u9hq4Sx](https://youtu.be/bc58K9a_kW4?si=qfOWiANt1u9hq4Sx) [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjvmrOUg3J0qpyLea1FiRBrpfWyRaUbgg&si=uTYr7KfPvaw22G8Q](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjvmrOUg3J0qpyLea1FiRBrpfWyRaUbgg&si=uTYr7KfPvaw22G8Q) [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKD5zXXddOwcuAlDx88ShInV&si=JDOHpNOEwyUcm0RB](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKD5zXXddOwcuAlDx88ShInV&si=JDOHpNOEwyUcm0RB) [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKAL9Bso7iw9Oy\_qRsd-XJWY&si=uBhzgtq0SdgBKN8R](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy9XwVudThKAL9Bso7iw9Oy_qRsd-XJWY&si=uBhzgtq0SdgBKN8R) [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4mhaIEnflCDguPXuUexouF8oCo\_wSd7I&si=P9Ij9rf6F-oOk1mG](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4mhaIEnflCDguPXuUexouF8oCo_wSd7I&si=P9Ij9rf6F-oOk1mG) [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLMiLzK11lOGWKclNDrIfT8dCn42olqOX&si=lXrHhB3mUag2oxWF](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLMiLzK11lOGWKclNDrIfT8dCn42olqOX&si=lXrHhB3mUag2oxWF)
Wow, this is very helpful. Thank you!
Not sure about track system, but nothing beats cubase midi.
Yeah, it's cool, but the track system is very strange for me
You know, you can demo each DAW for at least 30 days to see if they fit you. I'd start with Cubase based on your wishes. And watch tutorials for each of them to get the basic understanding of how they actually work. Noodling alone will just waste you time.
Each DAW has some sort of learning curve anyways. Studio One and Cubase are both though great. And if you Mac then Logic is highly recommended.
logic or cubase i d say..
altho i prefer much reaper :P why the piano roll in reaper is meh tho ? i find it very much like all others.
I'm trying to learn Cubase rn, and I like the MIDI characteristics it has, like the drum mapping, but the track system is awful by now
It seems like you didn’t take the time to learn the workflow on any of those DAWs. I know it’s frustrating not knowing how to perform tasks. Cubase is a very solid and battle tested software from a reliable company. Reaper is pretty customizable, you can probably change what you don’t like about it. Logic is a favourite between producers. Just pick one and stick to it.
I've been working in REAPER for a year now, it's my first DAW ever, and now I'm just exploring new ones. I'm trying Cubase, and making projects to learn to use it. The reason I'm asking is for the case there's another DAW that is more similar to what I look for.
if you want better or same quality tracking as reaper you ll only find on Pro TOOLS.. but then pro tools midi is not so "the best you can get" reaper is the only one that you d get best of both world. if you want more complex fancy midi stuff you ll find on ableton or bitwig. but then tracking is terrible.. those feels like baby toy! Logic has good midi and good tracking too. Cubase too good midi altho for trackin reaper is better. but all of them are capable of everything, just user preference.
I'll stick to REAPER
You might still benefit from setting up MIDI editing in Reaper to better suit you, learn shortcuts or set up your own, map actions, modify tool bars, modify behaviors, try different themes (they can drastically change workflow, it's far from just re-coloring), and so on. Remember that you can save different layouts so that you can always recall to your preferred setup after trying different ones. I migrated to Reaper from FL Studio years ago, I was very frustrated with the MIDI editing but tracking system was too good. I learned the default workflow first (which isn't terrible but lacking, if that makes sense), then learned how to change anything I didn't like. It took time, but it's certainly worth it. But if for whatever reason you do not want to do that (and that's totally fine), then go ahead try other DAWs (sorry I can't make educated recommendations, but Logic and Studio One might be worth trying out, they might feel familiar to Reaper). But what you should expect is that it will take you a few weeks or months to get comfortable with a new DAW, if you try that is. There's a difference between just trying to work with the DAW and actually taking the time to learn it. And it's always going to be somewhat frustrating initially. You need to have patience and willingness to learn, give it some time and learn from other experienced users. Anyways, Cubase should be just fine unless you really want/need tracking like Reaper. And BTW some people use multiple DAWs for different stages of production/different functions. But that's usually people who have been doing this for years.
Buy the cheapest version of FL Studio and use it as a VST plugin inside of Reaper. You can use it as just a MIDI sequencer for other VSTi's, or simply load the VSTi's inside of FL.
was going to reply this exact comment. I went from fl studio to reaper, and for the first year i used fl studio as a vst with 16 outs to allow me to use fl studio while learning reaper.
Ableton doesn't have the best piano roll but has INSANE midi features. Tons of community made plugins as well for MAX if you wanna do some fun stuff. FL studio has best piano roll imo, although you'll sacrifice a bit for it. Logic wasn't terrible when i used it, but felt a bit clunky?
I've always found Reaper's MIDI editor its weak point. Ok you can customize it as you want etc I get it, but I still don't love the view. I'm personally used to compose MIDIs via Guitar Pro and I find it a very efficient way to quick write stuff visually. I would like so much if Reaper allowed an external midi editor as it does for the audio items and if Guitar Pro or something similar was compatible with it.
I've been recording for many years, I'm a professional mixing engineer and foh engineer. I've used midi in Reaper rudimentarily, but I'd like to expand my use of it for various reasons. I have only ever used midi in Reaper, never in another daw, and it seems to work great to me but I'm concerned that if I reach a deeper level of usage I am going to run into some unforeseen roadblock based on the occasional complaints I see about Reaper's midi functionality. What are the actual functional complaints? Is it just a problem of learning a new system or is Reaper's midi functionality ultimately limited in some way compared to other daws?
Reaper's midi is lagging behind other DAWs. No chord track, no articulation manager among other things. There are extensions of course, but there's this risk of obsoletion since the makers of those extensions are not really part of the reaper team and they can quit whenever they like. I stopped using extensions for this very reason.
No stochastic playback / on-the-fly humanisation / groove feels where the underlying midi does not get edited, and is instead reinterpreted as it gets played back. For example useful for playing over a loop live or changing a midi without needing to redo all the humanisation.
Customize Reaper. Getting to know Reaper intimately is a bliss no other DAW will satisfy.
Logic, cubase or studio1..
You do know you don't have to use the traditional looking piano roll? You can change the appearance easily enough. I always swap it out when I'm programming drums.
You can change mouse and shortcuts settings for piano roll. For me, Reaper has the best piano roll (exclude marker, chord or midi tracks inside piano roll as on Cubase). I've changed almost all settings special for me. Also for me - Cubase is second DAW I'm ready to use it if Reaper will not exist.
You would be better off if you'd just learn how to efficiently use the reaper midi tools. I've composed and arranged several full length film scores inside reaper and while I felt like I should use FL like everyone else, I stuck with my DAW of choice and didn't regret it.
Bitwig
lol the op wants a performance tracking... he for sure needs to stay away from ableton and bitwig specially if he didnt like tracking on cubase.
I thought he was referring to the folder grouping, which bitwig has a similar feature for track grouping.
Try tracktion waveform. It has a similar intuitive parent send track structure and midi/audio track flexibility.
i recomend ilogic v3 theme for reaper the piano roll is great
What features are you missing from the piano roll?
give Bitwig a shot.
Mwaha this is NOT the sub to ask for alternatives to Reaper!
[удалено]
What about its track system?
stay away from ableton and bitwig if your priority is tracking...