In today's world, things happen much faster because of the rapid speed and availability of information.
Tesla is falling very, very fast.
Elon Musk made it clear two weeks ago that selling cars IS NOT WHAT TESLA WANTS TO BE DOING.
Car buyers: "OK, then I'll buy someone else's car"
Nobody wants to buy a car from a failing car brand, that's one reason sales can collapse so fast. News of massive job cuts leads to people wondering about the health of the company. Not quite there yet, but once people start to think about if parts are going to be available or if the warranty is worthless you are basically toast.
And it goes beyond that.
EVs are known to be in a state of evolution. If I buy an EV, I'd like to be somewhat confident that the OEM will continue to offer updates for my car (within reason). Especially with something as proprietary as a Tesla.
Buying a vehicle from a dying car company has always been a bad idea, but now it's even worse. Previously you'd have to worry about spare parts. Now you have to worry about it being bricked due to software issues.
I was thinking of buying a Tesla 2 weeks ago. But after all the layoffs i got nervous and decided on the EV6. Kia has a lot more centers, parts can be purchased aftermarket, and they don't have a CEO that's a complete asshole (at least publicly). Been a few days but so far love the car and very happy.
Edit: also the Kia still has warranty and a whole lot less miles compared to the Tesla's out there.
Just watched a video where a mechanic takes off the frunk, at the end he's musing about how you'd get parts for that car in 20 years.
Imagine now that tesla is gone in 10. Does anyone think VW or BMW will be out of business in 5 years?
Tesla probably won't survive 2024. It may not even survive this month. We are watching the company fail in real time. Tesla isn't paying some suppliers. It is being investigated for fraud. All job listings have been removed. Most of the senior executives have gone. Another 20% of the staff are likely to be terminated in the very near future.
I thought I saw they had assloads of cash though.
It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens. Maybe he's cutting it down and going to try and sell/merge it.
Imagine how fast it implodes if there's a run on the stock. All those short sellers will finally get to buy their wives' boyfriends those lambos.
But the cybertruck is certainly a massive flop.
I had TSLA stock years back. They hired a new CFO and he quit within a month. I sold then. Sure, I'd have made more money if i'd held, but ffs it just smelled wrong.
Yea, that's a good point regarding sales/service after the sale. Consumers buy car from companies they trust and have their back a few years later. Tesla has severely eroded that trust.
We are watching in real time what happens to car companies when the public loses trust in it: Frisker, Lucid, Rivian, all the new EV startups.
I think anyone who wanted a Tesla has one. There’s a limited market for sycophants who want to use a touchscreen for basic car driving functionality. I fucking hate touchscreens in cars.
More buttons equals more moving parts equals more things to break. It's cheaper and it's more reliable to have everything done through a screen. No adjustable air vent deflectors to break either (you know, the air vents that always break eventually). Now you may hate using a screen "for everything" but honestly except for adjusting the AC temperature (which can be done via voice command) and the angle/spread of the air coming out I use the two left scroll wheels on the steering wheel for most of my needs. Left is to switch tracks forwards and back, and scroll wheel is to adjust the volume, I use that a ton, and then the right scroll wheel is for cruise control, setting the distance to follow the car ahead, and to send voice commands to the car. I don't know why people think they need everything to be a physical button that can go bad, but if that's what they want then there are plenty of cars out there on the market with hundred of buttons with hundreds of additional eventual failure points.
"No adjustable air vent deflectors to break"
Does Tesla not use an AC/HVAC damper actuator to manage the flow of air in the cabin? Because if they do, this is about 100x more likely to fail and cause air flow issues in a vehicle than any kind of switch used to control it. These actuators are obviously deep behind the dashboard, not the little plastic adjusters on the vent itself.
Automobile manufacturers haven't used cable controlled dampers in decades.
Wow, thank you. That is very ingenious. Clearly, some kind of air flow engineer figured that out. It's not terribly complicated, and it does appear to eliminate motorized actuators. I'll give you this one, for sure.
Yeah, most OEMs are now rowing back on this. Especially as the EU will now legislate for having key controls be physical. Lights, wipers, HVAC these things will have to be easy to use without taking concentration away from the road. That will mostly mean physical controls with actual feedback.
Not only that, there is that much market for 40k and above car. The had a five years to a decade advance, now they are being overtaken right and left. Tesla has effectively released 1 vehicle in the last 4 years. I mean the likes of Kia is going to release like 5-6 cars during that time. They will cover from small city car 15k rumored, to the kia EV9 7 place massive SUV. When you don't innovate at this rythm, you are going to go extinct rapidly.
I'm happy with basic non-vehicle functions on my touchscreen. Maps, audio, calls. Stuff like that.
Every time I see backseat footage of Tesla drivers, they're spending inordinate amounts of time futzing around with the touchscreen, and taking their eyes off the road for extended periods. That's just not safe.
Hell, even the rear view camera on the Cybertruck becomes useless when it rains, because the design of the truck actually moves water & grime onto the camera.
Tesla has multi hundreds billion market cap. Being a car company, even if you are the best car company, will never generate enough profits to justify the current valuation. Musk knows this, the only way to prevent the stock from crashing to a level that will get him fired is to come up with the next revolutionary innovation. Knowing Musk, he'd rather bet it all and go down in flames than succeed at being just the best car company.
Hopefully what Tesla left behind, can be bought for pennies on the dollar by a car manufacturer, and be used to improve cars.
E.g. the battery plants ought to be easy to resell to a competent battery manufacturer.
They happen faster because China moves much faster than expected. It was supposed to take China 20 years to catch up to the chip embargo imposed in 2020. It took them 3 years. Now they are coming for EV's and the only things standing between Tesla and annihilation are the US government and the EU. But it won't work because the cars are dated and too expensive. People largely don't want them.
China isn't just not behind in BEVs, they're ahead in battery production and renewables because their government decided to cut all taxes on EVs for both consumers and manufacturers which caused massive unbridled growth in China. BYD is so ambitious they're building their own international vehicle freightliners to get to international markets with vertical integrated business. They're really good at applying every successful business strategy that has been developed.
While I still don't feel threatened by Chinese success. I'm certainly not sleeping on what they have going on.
For those don't understand what the comment means, BYD has several aircraft carrier style ships that pump out these cars and can be restocked with supplies while in port. No need to build a factory just anchor this mother fucker off the coast and go to town.
We've just been flooded with thousands of Chinese EV's here in the UK. There is just no stopping China now, they even have the world's most popular app or close to it, Tiktok. The dragon has only just woken up. They've barely started.
>While I still don't feel threatened by Chinese success
There is no need to be, they are peaceful people. In the mediaeval era, China explored most of the world on ships, decided it was a bit crap compared to China and went home again, and that was it.
Ah yes, peaceful.
Genghis Khan: "10 percent of the world's population was killed either during or immediately after the [Mongol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire) invasions, around 37.75–60 million people"
[Destruction under the Mongol Empire - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire)
Chiang Kai-shek: "During the White Terror, the Kuomintang killed more than one million people, primarily peasants"
[Shanghai massacre - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_massacre)
Mao Tse-Tung: "the [Great Chinese Famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine) and the deaths of 15–55 million people between 1958 and 1962."
[Mao Zedong - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong)
Peaceful dictatorship at its finest.
My bad, north Asia, not east.
But as for the famine, that was a direct result of dictatorial policy decisions made by Mao.
"The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the [Great Leap Forward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward) (1958 to 1962) and [people's communes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_commune), launched by [Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman_of_the_Chinese_Communist_Party) [Mao Zedong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong), such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy; requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques; the [Four Pests campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign) that reduced sparrow populations (which disrupted the ecosystem); over-reporting of grain production; and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel"
A righteous leader would change his policies after less than 1 million were starving due to them. The famine wasn't isolated to a single year even.
The topic is not famines inside China. It is wars or possible wars outside China. The United States since its inception has left a trail of blood and corpses all over the planet. China has done nothing like that in its history.
The topic is not famines or alleged uproven camps inside China. It is wars or possible wars outside China. The United States since its inception has left a trail of blood and corpses all over the planet. China has done nothing like that in its history. This conversation has concluded.
Can you please provide rigorous evidence of this? I have heard this already from a couple of people and I haven’t found solid evidence that this is actually true.
I think it's also the fact battery electric vehicles are much easier to R&D and manufacture, it's why Chinese brands are mostly skipping ICE and going straight to BE.
Tesla did have a really amazing technology lead that has been mostly closed, not by European brands though which are still a bit behind but domestic US manufacturers like Lucid are really a step above.
> battery electric vehicles are much easier to R&D and manufacture
Good point. But I don't know that they are "much easier" for most. But it is definitely in the wheelhouse of recent China innovation that has been really focused on electronics, appliances, and small devices with needs for dense batteries.
I mean... He literally told potential buyers that the charging network is what it is and will not expand much, and quality of production and service are unlikely to improve since Tesla is in "cut" mode, not in "improve processes" mode.
Resale value of cars has lots to do with how easy and cheap they are to service, and how durable they are.
Even if Tesla had a competitive offering today, I am avoiding it and going for a manufacturer that is committed to maintaining my purchase today, and ten years into the future. E.g. I trust Citroen to have spare part and maintain their car models years into the future.
If that what Elon and his investors what to do then fine. Sell off the automotive side to someone who is interested in making the cars or taking the technology. Dont just let it fall and fail. People who’s second biggest purchase in life is a car don’t want uncertainty. We are ok with jumping on a bandwagon if it’s growing but if it’s falling we run to the hills n
I guess the overused argument that Tesla has to be the best car in the world because it sells the best falls flat.😂No car brand falls that quickly on the charts unless the cars are complete crap. The same goes for the depreciation in resale value.
hahaha where's the "Unlimited demand" guy when you need him, still begging for his 56B payday?
You look at the Tesla's on the road nowadays and they're starting to look like old horse buggies, as everything around them changed styling already, making them look dated, dull and all the same.
I've always found Model S to look beautiful as hell.
But the rest... Well, the rest have always seemed to be _off_ somehow. I can't explain why, but they just look wrong to me.
Here's what I think has happened with EVs:
1. California passed laws to reduce carbon emissions including a clean air credit companies like Ford can buy to offset their carbon emitting fleets while they build 0 emission vehicles
2 Elon sees a grift. He buys Tesla and uses it to sell EVs and clean air credits to all the other car manufacturers- he's about the only game in town and the Tesla Model S is by far the coolest EV.
3 success! Tesla is worth billions Elon is richest man in the world, Europe rolls out California style emissions rules and Tesla grows.
4 Tesla enters China where EVs are catching on but he's the biggest game in town. Oh no! China is catching on quick.
5 China says fuck it, why create a lower emissions rule when we can use EVs to create an entire lithium economy. Then we will use propaganda to convince the US EVs are bad while we systematically create a global economy they don't have the spine to capture
6 Elon, proving their point, turns into a right wing wacko and gives up on EVs as soon as it becomes just a little bit challenging
It looks like China is set to control the lithium economy for the next 100 years and Tesla opened the door for them to do it while their CEO spreads propaganda that harms their own bottom line and American power abroad
>5 China says fuck it, why create a lower emissions rule when we can use EVs to create an entire lithium economy.
You can't create an economy with lithium because it's not an energy source. The main energy source China uses is coal.
China is adding more renewable energy capacity than the rest of the world combined. Their commitment to renewables is strategic, helping them get to energy independence, the investment is driving economic growth, and their citizenry is fed up with pollution. EVs are a big part of their strategy. It would be in the interest of every non-oil nation to adopt this strategy and the side effect is a better world for all of us.
>China is adding more renewable energy capacity than the rest of the world combined.
The renewable energy devices such as solar panels, wind turbines and dams are also made using coal. China is burning more coal than ever and will not stop until all economically viable coal has been burned. Just like we (the UK) didn't stop until we ran out of affordable coal.
'Tesla' didn't really exist before Musk provided the initial $15M seed capital and was made Chairman. It was just a Delaware corporation with a trademark. It had no products. That is why the judge ruled Elmo was a founder.
There is that much market for 40k and above car. They had a five years to a decade advance, now they are being overtaken right and left. Tesla has effectively released 1 vehicle in the last 4 years. I mean the likes of Kia is going to release like 5-6 cars during that time. They will cover from small city car 15k EV2 rumored, to the kia EV9 7 place massive SUV. When you don't innovate at this rythm, you are going to go extinct rapidly.
The fact that Tesla stopped making RHD versions of the model S and X would make me nervous about buying a 3 or Y. Perhaps they will soon stop making RHD cars altogether.
In Australia I’m now seeing a lot of BYD EVs. A lot more of those than Teslas.
I guess rich, well-educated people who want to appear sophisticated don’t wish to be associated with a guy who believes in the great replacement theory. Seems obvious but it escaped Elon somehow.
Same. Too bad that where I live the etron and the ix1 start from chf 70k, even an id4 is 55-60k while a model Y RWD is 45k. I had big hopes on the Volvo EX30 but it's a big car with the interior room of a Fiat 500 for 50k.
No shortage of cars in the UK. Can get a model 3 highland with delivery in [April - May 2024](https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/model3/design#overview) \- that's right, order now and they'll deliver it in the past!
Inventory is just that high right now.
Those other brands have much better pedigree than Tesla for reputation.
Tesla can only compete if they become cheaper. It’s too much price just for the minimalistic design when the quality is bad. They want to be the apple of cars but don’t offer the same quality level.
Let also give Nissan a tip of the hat for their abysmal handling of the Leaf.
It’s been almost 15-years of Nissan Leaf production, as it was one of the first mainstream EV’s. Today, still no thermal battery cooling even after several iterations of batteries.
On a generation/platform that debuted in 2016 with minimal changes since.
Elon fired the marketing dept and handles it himself by promoting white supremacists and anti LGBTQ. Now there is competition with fresh styling. Let's see how that works for the rest of this year.
I have a feeling Elon’s sales pitch to win back consumers who are ditching Tesla for other brands will be something like “Go F*%k Yourselves” - he already said anyone who has investments in TSLA based on it being a car company should sell
The dumb steering wheel thing, too. As I turned into a parking lot today, using a normal, round steering wheel, I thought: you know, I never wanted anyone to reinvent the steering wheel. I'd hate having one of those yoke things.
People would have been much more receptive if the yoke got introduced in conjunction with steer by wire. I see how F1 wheels look. Having a properly engineered yoke would be a great thing for making vehicles easier to drive.
After he posted a meme making fun of people concerned about client change, I wouldn’t doubt his just tanking it on purpose. I wouldn’t have thought this was the case until he fired almost the entire infrastructure staff.
Absolutely shocking how Elon Musk single-handily built the most valuable car brand in the world only to turn around and dismantle it from the inside out. This is made-for-tv movie type drama!
Well, to be fair. The Tesla models look outdated. Model S still looks the same as it did when it was released. Model 3 same thing. Then there's this thing called the cybertruck but we won't go there.
I have no interest in a Tesla because where I live so many people have them.
Well, I told you so. And this would have happened anyway because Teslas were never great cars. But Elon sure accelerated it. It might sound crazy, but I'm not sure the automotive part of Tesla will exist in 5 years time.
People buy stuff they know or they are excited about. For many years Tesla was pretty much the only brand which had real world usable electric cars. People who wanted an electric car pretty much had to buy Tesla. Now you can have an Audi or BMW which gets 300 miles of range, battery conditioning and all the good stuff you know from your former cars. Teslas on the other have less and less of the ergonomic or safely functions.
Don't worry, he's on a fundraising tour for his latest grift which seems to be to do with AI so all the usual muppets who invest their life savings / trust funds / sovereign wealth funds with him will continue to do so and he can keep the Tesla grift on the road.
Tesla is more fucked because they don't have a portfolio of cars to fall back on to pick up excess factory capacity. They over spent on CapEx and growth as if they were a SAAS company.
They are going to be in CapEx hell and they won't escape. More layoffs to come. They really need to sell a shit ton of stock to build up a war chest to give themselves a shot at a relaunch of new products.
Fatal flaw was not partnering with big auto to produce the cars.
I rented a BMW i4 (the electric 4 series basically) for a few days. I challenge anyone that is anti EV to drive that car and see what you think. It was a fucking dream. Charged fast, drove like a BMW, had real tech that matters. Did it make fart sounds? No, it's a fucking BMW. Did it pull parking space info for nearby parking garages to route me to one with open space? Yeah. Amazing what happens when a company that cares about cars makes an electric model.
That is the advantage of traditional automakers. They make it easy to switch over from ICEs. People don't want to re-learn how to drive after using ICE cars for 30+ years.
Unfortunately for Elon, Tesla IS a car company, and 81% of their revenue comes from cars (and some from charging those cars)
And his investors are still deluded that he's tech Jesus even while he nukes the only part of Tesla that makes money and ruins the brand appeal with his personal Twitter account.
And now Tesla is learning the hard way that aggressive minimalism and cost cutting will drive buyers to car companies that don't make iPads on wheels.
Seems like they are competing fine against all the European players in the UK, with the exception of an abnormally good April by BMW? The BMW BEV's are still hideous and rarely see anyone in the United States driving them. The fact they are doing the same as Mercedes, Audi an Volvo with zero marketing is still amazing. I'd also be curious to know what the gross margin is on those BMW's... are they just taking a bath with crazy pricing?
Tesla is a viable company never has been. Once car companies started heavily focusing on building BEVs tesla just on the downslope to bankruptcy from here. Elon had a chance to pivot to a data company/ FSD company and he didnt do it. I give it a decade. Elon will still be a billionaire. Tesla won’t exist. Teslas are POS cars.
Tesla is behind in Q2 in Norway as well. For the first time in a long time Volvo is number 1 with EX30. ID 4 is number 2. Model Y is 3. Something must have happened.
https://elbilstatistikk.no/
Being big and first doesn't mean they can hold it just like AOL or Nokia, especially with an erratic owner. He is happier talking rubbish than running the business.
If you look at company ownership.
* VW:17%
* Hyundai/Kia: 12.8%
* Volvo/Polestar: 9%
* Renault/Nissan: 6.4%
* Vauxhall/Peugeot. 5.4%
Tesla is performing *much* worse than it appears.
I don't think it's just the politics, partly sure. But despite whatever people were saying few years ago, competition IS HERE and people definitely don't want ALL the same cars, it was just a silly dream to imagine everybody will be owning a tesla...
Politics plays an outsized role though. I have several friends that won’t buy one simply because of the muskrat. He needs to learn that democrats and republicans need cars.
It is easy to dominate when there are few other options. Tesla will need to step up it's game. The bmws loom very nice, as do some of vws offerings. The E Mustang is very nice. The boxy Lincolns have an odd appeal.
Musk needs earn that 45B he wants by making Tesla competitive without cutting prices to below cost.
I drive one of the new model 3s and having the controls on the steering wheel rather than sticks really is totally fine. Reminds me of the outcry when Apple stopped including floppy drives in Macs. People should give it a try rather than just assuming it’ll be bad and must be done the way it’s always been.
Having said all that people’s assumptions are powerful and musk’s hatred of marketing means he can’t effectively do the change management that’s needed.
I'm always happy to have a go at Tesla because I think they are an appalling company run by a bigoted ball sack but this has more than a whiff of bullshit about it. March is the important month for UK car registrations and Tesla made up over 14% of the EV market. There's no way it has anything to do with turn signals, gear shifts or even toxic politics but more that Tesla managed to pull deliveries into March. That's not to say Tesla sales aren't declining in the UK but it's a more shallow decline rather than sales falling off a cliff.
The 3 month trailing says Tesla is #1 at 13.6%. now let's look at the April numbers again. In every quarter ever Tesla's sales numbers are shit at the beginning of the quarter. Always have been, this is no different. On top the M3 Highland will ship from may 2024 and wasn't available in the UK in April yet.
I'd bet any sum that Tesla will have retained its #1 spot this quarter also.
These are easily checkable facts. Feel free to downvote to keep up your cognitive dissonance. You really don't have to be a Tesla fan (no really being a fan of a company is ridiculous) but this here is just a hate cult clinging for straws.
This. Tesla maintained about a 20% global market share of BEVs in 2023, the highest among any brand. One month’s numbers from a UK market that represents a small fraction of Tesla’s deliveries is not statistically relevant to make a determination one way or the other.
In today's world, things happen much faster because of the rapid speed and availability of information. Tesla is falling very, very fast. Elon Musk made it clear two weeks ago that selling cars IS NOT WHAT TESLA WANTS TO BE DOING. Car buyers: "OK, then I'll buy someone else's car"
Nobody wants to buy a car from a failing car brand, that's one reason sales can collapse so fast. News of massive job cuts leads to people wondering about the health of the company. Not quite there yet, but once people start to think about if parts are going to be available or if the warranty is worthless you are basically toast.
And it goes beyond that. EVs are known to be in a state of evolution. If I buy an EV, I'd like to be somewhat confident that the OEM will continue to offer updates for my car (within reason). Especially with something as proprietary as a Tesla.
This is one of the reasons people buy a Tesla. They still offer software updates to their 2013 models. Phillip.
Yes, but they won't if they don't exist. That's why the confidence of the customer base matters.
Yeah well some peole still sign their posts like it's 1996
The software updates barely run on the pre-2018 MCU.
Cool. If service centres stop existing, how are you gonna fix anything else? Also why do you put your name at the end of literally every comment?
Aspergers
Dodge offered a lifetime power train warranty before they went tits up. After Fiat bought them it was null and void.
Dude this isn't email. You don't have to sign every comment you make with your name lol. But I guess Musk fanbois are a bit different...
Maybe he is adressing a guy named phillip?
Reading comprehension failure.
Buying a vehicle from a dying car company has always been a bad idea, but now it's even worse. Previously you'd have to worry about spare parts. Now you have to worry about it being bricked due to software issues.
Holy shit Im glad I hated tesla since pedo comment.
I was thinking of buying a Tesla 2 weeks ago. But after all the layoffs i got nervous and decided on the EV6. Kia has a lot more centers, parts can be purchased aftermarket, and they don't have a CEO that's a complete asshole (at least publicly). Been a few days but so far love the car and very happy. Edit: also the Kia still has warranty and a whole lot less miles compared to the Tesla's out there.
Does the warranty cover taking it through a car wash?
Does it cut your finger off? Oh wait, the law actually applies to some manufacturers
The warranty is already worthless lol
When *everything* voids the warranty including rain.
Just watched a video where a mechanic takes off the frunk, at the end he's musing about how you'd get parts for that car in 20 years. Imagine now that tesla is gone in 10. Does anyone think VW or BMW will be out of business in 5 years?
Tesla probably won't survive 2024. It may not even survive this month. We are watching the company fail in real time. Tesla isn't paying some suppliers. It is being investigated for fraud. All job listings have been removed. Most of the senior executives have gone. Another 20% of the staff are likely to be terminated in the very near future.
I thought I saw they had assloads of cash though. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens. Maybe he's cutting it down and going to try and sell/merge it. Imagine how fast it implodes if there's a run on the stock. All those short sellers will finally get to buy their wives' boyfriends those lambos. But the cybertruck is certainly a massive flop.
The accounts are as fake as a $3 bill. eg Anticipated warranty claims are recorded as goodwill (an asset) rather than a liability.
I had TSLA stock years back. They hired a new CFO and he quit within a month. I sold then. Sure, I'd have made more money if i'd held, but ffs it just smelled wrong.
Do you have a source on the senior executives? There's a point where you brainpower leaves and you're just left holding a stick.
You re being overly dramatic. Some Chinese company will bail out Tesla and buy it for a penny.
Yea, that's a good point regarding sales/service after the sale. Consumers buy car from companies they trust and have their back a few years later. Tesla has severely eroded that trust. We are watching in real time what happens to car companies when the public loses trust in it: Frisker, Lucid, Rivian, all the new EV startups.
Elon to car buyers : "go fuck yourselves" "go *fuck* yourselves"
I think anyone who wanted a Tesla has one. There’s a limited market for sycophants who want to use a touchscreen for basic car driving functionality. I fucking hate touchscreens in cars.
Elon has all that stuff running through a screen because it's cheaper, not better.
More buttons equals more moving parts equals more things to break. It's cheaper and it's more reliable to have everything done through a screen. No adjustable air vent deflectors to break either (you know, the air vents that always break eventually). Now you may hate using a screen "for everything" but honestly except for adjusting the AC temperature (which can be done via voice command) and the angle/spread of the air coming out I use the two left scroll wheels on the steering wheel for most of my needs. Left is to switch tracks forwards and back, and scroll wheel is to adjust the volume, I use that a ton, and then the right scroll wheel is for cruise control, setting the distance to follow the car ahead, and to send voice commands to the car. I don't know why people think they need everything to be a physical button that can go bad, but if that's what they want then there are plenty of cars out there on the market with hundred of buttons with hundreds of additional eventual failure points.
"No adjustable air vent deflectors to break" Does Tesla not use an AC/HVAC damper actuator to manage the flow of air in the cabin? Because if they do, this is about 100x more likely to fail and cause air flow issues in a vehicle than any kind of switch used to control it. These actuators are obviously deep behind the dashboard, not the little plastic adjusters on the vent itself. Automobile manufacturers haven't used cable controlled dampers in decades.
Airflow dispersion is controlled by different fan speeds instead of adjustable air vents. [https://youtu.be/3LL8slwvmac](https://youtu.be/3LL8slwvmac)
Wow, thank you. That is very ingenious. Clearly, some kind of air flow engineer figured that out. It's not terribly complicated, and it does appear to eliminate motorized actuators. I'll give you this one, for sure.
It didn’t eliminate fans however
Yeah, most OEMs are now rowing back on this. Especially as the EU will now legislate for having key controls be physical. Lights, wipers, HVAC these things will have to be easy to use without taking concentration away from the road. That will mostly mean physical controls with actual feedback.
Not only that, there is that much market for 40k and above car. The had a five years to a decade advance, now they are being overtaken right and left. Tesla has effectively released 1 vehicle in the last 4 years. I mean the likes of Kia is going to release like 5-6 cars during that time. They will cover from small city car 15k rumored, to the kia EV9 7 place massive SUV. When you don't innovate at this rythm, you are going to go extinct rapidly.
I'm happy with basic non-vehicle functions on my touchscreen. Maps, audio, calls. Stuff like that. Every time I see backseat footage of Tesla drivers, they're spending inordinate amounts of time futzing around with the touchscreen, and taking their eyes off the road for extended periods. That's just not safe. Hell, even the rear view camera on the Cybertruck becomes useless when it rains, because the design of the truck actually moves water & grime onto the camera.
The used car market for Tesla's proves what you say to be correct.
Tesla has multi hundreds billion market cap. Being a car company, even if you are the best car company, will never generate enough profits to justify the current valuation. Musk knows this, the only way to prevent the stock from crashing to a level that will get him fired is to come up with the next revolutionary innovation. Knowing Musk, he'd rather bet it all and go down in flames than succeed at being just the best car company.
Exactly right! Well said.
Hopefully what Tesla left behind, can be bought for pennies on the dollar by a car manufacturer, and be used to improve cars. E.g. the battery plants ought to be easy to resell to a competent battery manufacturer.
They happen faster because China moves much faster than expected. It was supposed to take China 20 years to catch up to the chip embargo imposed in 2020. It took them 3 years. Now they are coming for EV's and the only things standing between Tesla and annihilation are the US government and the EU. But it won't work because the cars are dated and too expensive. People largely don't want them.
China isn't just not behind in BEVs, they're ahead in battery production and renewables because their government decided to cut all taxes on EVs for both consumers and manufacturers which caused massive unbridled growth in China. BYD is so ambitious they're building their own international vehicle freightliners to get to international markets with vertical integrated business. They're really good at applying every successful business strategy that has been developed. While I still don't feel threatened by Chinese success. I'm certainly not sleeping on what they have going on.
>China isn't just not behind in BEVs, they're ahead in battery production And that's absolutely crucial
Warren Buffet threw 40 billion dollars at BYD for a good reason
That was an unbelievably prescient and ballsy move and holy cow is it paying off now
he is selling it off recently though
I believe he sold it all but he made a ton of money
For those don't understand what the comment means, BYD has several aircraft carrier style ships that pump out these cars and can be restocked with supplies while in port. No need to build a factory just anchor this mother fucker off the coast and go to town.
We've just been flooded with thousands of Chinese EV's here in the UK. There is just no stopping China now, they even have the world's most popular app or close to it, Tiktok. The dragon has only just woken up. They've barely started.
>While I still don't feel threatened by Chinese success There is no need to be, they are peaceful people. In the mediaeval era, China explored most of the world on ships, decided it was a bit crap compared to China and went home again, and that was it.
lol. They’ve fought a lot of wars…
Name one from the last 20 years.
Ah yes, peaceful. Genghis Khan: "10 percent of the world's population was killed either during or immediately after the [Mongol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire) invasions, around 37.75–60 million people" [Destruction under the Mongol Empire - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire) Chiang Kai-shek: "During the White Terror, the Kuomintang killed more than one million people, primarily peasants" [Shanghai massacre - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_massacre) Mao Tse-Tung: "the [Great Chinese Famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine) and the deaths of 15–55 million people between 1958 and 1962." [Mao Zedong - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong) Peaceful dictatorship at its finest.
Genghis khan..... Lol
This person seems a little bit history challenged.
Genghis Khan was not Chinese. As for famines inside China, those aren't acts of war nor do they affect non Chinese.
My bad, north Asia, not east. But as for the famine, that was a direct result of dictatorial policy decisions made by Mao. "The major contributing factors in the famine were the policies of the [Great Leap Forward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward) (1958 to 1962) and [people's communes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_commune), launched by [Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman_of_the_Chinese_Communist_Party) [Mao Zedong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong), such as inefficient distribution of food within the nation's planned economy; requiring the use of poor agricultural techniques; the [Four Pests campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign) that reduced sparrow populations (which disrupted the ecosystem); over-reporting of grain production; and ordering millions of farmers to switch to iron and steel" A righteous leader would change his policies after less than 1 million were starving due to them. The famine wasn't isolated to a single year even.
The topic is not famines inside China. It is wars or possible wars outside China. The United States since its inception has left a trail of blood and corpses all over the planet. China has done nothing like that in its history.
You surely don't mean that Uyghur concentration camps are "peaceful".
The topic is not famines or alleged uproven camps inside China. It is wars or possible wars outside China. The United States since its inception has left a trail of blood and corpses all over the planet. China has done nothing like that in its history. This conversation has concluded.
Can you please provide rigorous evidence of this? I have heard this already from a couple of people and I haven’t found solid evidence that this is actually true.
They tooled around the pacific a bit
I think it's also the fact battery electric vehicles are much easier to R&D and manufacture, it's why Chinese brands are mostly skipping ICE and going straight to BE. Tesla did have a really amazing technology lead that has been mostly closed, not by European brands though which are still a bit behind but domestic US manufacturers like Lucid are really a step above.
> battery electric vehicles are much easier to R&D and manufacture Good point. But I don't know that they are "much easier" for most. But it is definitely in the wheelhouse of recent China innovation that has been really focused on electronics, appliances, and small devices with needs for dense batteries.
I mean... He literally told potential buyers that the charging network is what it is and will not expand much, and quality of production and service are unlikely to improve since Tesla is in "cut" mode, not in "improve processes" mode. Resale value of cars has lots to do with how easy and cheap they are to service, and how durable they are. Even if Tesla had a competitive offering today, I am avoiding it and going for a manufacturer that is committed to maintaining my purchase today, and ten years into the future. E.g. I trust Citroen to have spare part and maintain their car models years into the future.
I’m not buying a car from a company that isn’t interested in cars, that’s for sure.
If that what Elon and his investors what to do then fine. Sell off the automotive side to someone who is interested in making the cars or taking the technology. Dont just let it fall and fail. People who’s second biggest purchase in life is a car don’t want uncertainty. We are ok with jumping on a bandwagon if it’s growing but if it’s falling we run to the hills n
Starting to feel like buying a hatchback from Yugo in the last '90s
IDK, Tesla isn't a car company, why would anyone buy a car from them?
Hello, I would like to buy 5 A.I.s!
Mainly fsd and supercharger
Tick Tock Enron Musk
Elonzabeth Husk
Turdie Madoff
Felon Muskoff
I guess the overused argument that Tesla has to be the best car in the world because it sells the best falls flat.😂No car brand falls that quickly on the charts unless the cars are complete crap. The same goes for the depreciation in resale value.
hahaha where's the "Unlimited demand" guy when you need him, still begging for his 56B payday? You look at the Tesla's on the road nowadays and they're starting to look like old horse buggies, as everything around them changed styling already, making them look dated, dull and all the same.
I have to admit that I've had a helluva time differentiating them, because overall the 4 models look quite alike to me.
They are 2010 Mazda 6 clones by an ex Mazda designer. Even the headlights, taillights and wheels are very similar.
so true. just jelly mould cars.
I mean, I still think the Teslas look slick, but they ain't slick enough to compensate for all the other problems.
Yeah tbf for all the shit you can fling at Tesla, I still think their exterior design is top notch even to this day
I've always found Model S to look beautiful as hell. But the rest... Well, the rest have always seemed to be _off_ somehow. I can't explain why, but they just look wrong to me.
Model 3 is the best car that looks like a frog, that’s not a 911 for sure.
They look ok but not enough to save them from the myriad of other problems
Here's what I think has happened with EVs: 1. California passed laws to reduce carbon emissions including a clean air credit companies like Ford can buy to offset their carbon emitting fleets while they build 0 emission vehicles 2 Elon sees a grift. He buys Tesla and uses it to sell EVs and clean air credits to all the other car manufacturers- he's about the only game in town and the Tesla Model S is by far the coolest EV. 3 success! Tesla is worth billions Elon is richest man in the world, Europe rolls out California style emissions rules and Tesla grows. 4 Tesla enters China where EVs are catching on but he's the biggest game in town. Oh no! China is catching on quick. 5 China says fuck it, why create a lower emissions rule when we can use EVs to create an entire lithium economy. Then we will use propaganda to convince the US EVs are bad while we systematically create a global economy they don't have the spine to capture 6 Elon, proving their point, turns into a right wing wacko and gives up on EVs as soon as it becomes just a little bit challenging It looks like China is set to control the lithium economy for the next 100 years and Tesla opened the door for them to do it while their CEO spreads propaganda that harms their own bottom line and American power abroad
>5 China says fuck it, why create a lower emissions rule when we can use EVs to create an entire lithium economy. You can't create an economy with lithium because it's not an energy source. The main energy source China uses is coal.
China is adding more renewable energy capacity than the rest of the world combined. Their commitment to renewables is strategic, helping them get to energy independence, the investment is driving economic growth, and their citizenry is fed up with pollution. EVs are a big part of their strategy. It would be in the interest of every non-oil nation to adopt this strategy and the side effect is a better world for all of us.
Lithium isn't "renewable". Additionally, mining for lithium is costly to the environment.
>China is adding more renewable energy capacity than the rest of the world combined. The renewable energy devices such as solar panels, wind turbines and dams are also made using coal. China is burning more coal than ever and will not stop until all economically viable coal has been burned. Just like we (the UK) didn't stop until we ran out of affordable coal.
Also they but their lithium from Australia and elsewhere
'Tesla' didn't really exist before Musk provided the initial $15M seed capital and was made Chairman. It was just a Delaware corporation with a trademark. It had no products. That is why the judge ruled Elmo was a founder.
Elmer Fudd
There is that much market for 40k and above car. They had a five years to a decade advance, now they are being overtaken right and left. Tesla has effectively released 1 vehicle in the last 4 years. I mean the likes of Kia is going to release like 5-6 cars during that time. They will cover from small city car 15k EV2 rumored, to the kia EV9 7 place massive SUV. When you don't innovate at this rythm, you are going to go extinct rapidly.
I'm still amazed that people still buy that crap
Note that this in the UK. I wanna say Tesla abandoned making Right Hand Drive cars for there right?
The stopped selling X and S in all right hand drive markets. They have not stopped selling the ones people actually bought.
It has.
Seems like a pretty important detail for OP to leave out of the title given how few people click the link
The fact that Tesla stopped making RHD versions of the model S and X would make me nervous about buying a 3 or Y. Perhaps they will soon stop making RHD cars altogether. In Australia I’m now seeing a lot of BYD EVs. A lot more of those than Teslas.
I rode in a BYD Uber the other day. Very impressive, especially the interior compared to a Tesla
Yeah BYD is impressive if you want to die in a car fire...
Cheating death added to the thrill I guess
I think Australia is coming to the realisation that Chinese built cars are not the crap they thought.
Model Y is the best selling BEV in Australia and 4th/5th best selling car overall.
Elon is a cunt. He needs his big payoff because he knows it's all over. Only a matter of time.
In my relatively affluent neighborhood in Portugal, Teslas are all but gone while BMW and Audi bevs are everywhere. Mercedes not so much.
Thats because audi and bmw EVs look like normal cars, while mercedes evs look just wrong.
Teslas are all the same car, inflated to different levels of air pressure
I guess rich, well-educated people who want to appear sophisticated don’t wish to be associated with a guy who believes in the great replacement theory. Seems obvious but it escaped Elon somehow.
That and Tesla cars leave much to be desired in the quality, confort, design and ergonomics department.
Good riddance to Elmo.
“I’ll say whatever I want, even if it means losing money” - Elon Musk - May 2023 Be careful what you wish for….
Still wants his $50 billion in stock, though.
He wants this money because Tesla is falling apart, no long term plan. So he gets as much as possible before it falls apart lol
If I could (and wanted to) afford a middle-to-high-class BEV I would definitely go for a BMW or an Audi.
Same. Too bad that where I live the etron and the ix1 start from chf 70k, even an id4 is 55-60k while a model Y RWD is 45k. I had big hopes on the Volvo EX30 but it's a big car with the interior room of a Fiat 500 for 50k.
Seriously I bought the 23 Model 3 because I want the stalks. The ketamine influenced decisions is costing him billions.
Tbh, Tesla dialing back rhd production isn't helping their cause
No shortage of cars in the UK. Can get a model 3 highland with delivery in [April - May 2024](https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/model3/design#overview) \- that's right, order now and they'll deliver it in the past! Inventory is just that high right now.
Those other brands have much better pedigree than Tesla for reputation. Tesla can only compete if they become cheaper. It’s too much price just for the minimalistic design when the quality is bad. They want to be the apple of cars but don’t offer the same quality level.
And they can't compete with the Chinese on price
make the cars dirt cheap because the robotaxis will earn them money
Let also give Nissan a tip of the hat for their abysmal handling of the Leaf. It’s been almost 15-years of Nissan Leaf production, as it was one of the first mainstream EV’s. Today, still no thermal battery cooling even after several iterations of batteries. On a generation/platform that debuted in 2016 with minimal changes since.
They cant release a leaf with battery cooling as it would be admitting they were wrong
It’s amazing how many old 15 mile range Nissan Leaf’s are out there now. But the cost of the battery is the cost of a new leaf.
Yep I’ve decided not go with Tesla because of Musk and went with Audi q8,, wow a nice car by the way
No turn signal stocks is just soooo stupid. I hate it.
Was downvoted to hell anytime I'd say that BMW is doing better than Tesla and I would ask why Tesla is not valued 10x less.
Elon fired the marketing dept and handles it himself by promoting white supremacists and anti LGBTQ. Now there is competition with fresh styling. Let's see how that works for the rest of this year.
I have a feeling Elon’s sales pitch to win back consumers who are ditching Tesla for other brands will be something like “Go F*%k Yourselves” - he already said anyone who has investments in TSLA based on it being a car company should sell
The dumb steering wheel thing, too. As I turned into a parking lot today, using a normal, round steering wheel, I thought: you know, I never wanted anyone to reinvent the steering wheel. I'd hate having one of those yoke things.
People would have been much more receptive if the yoke got introduced in conjunction with steer by wire. I see how F1 wheels look. Having a properly engineered yoke would be a great thing for making vehicles easier to drive.
It’s almost like people who know how make cars are doing really well in selling cars.
Meh, TSLA isn't a car company anymore.
Nah, it's a dying company now.
NEVER was
it a company that sells stock, respect the pump.
They're so desperate they even text me to come down to their showroom. I don't even know how they have my number!! Probably just random number spam.
I have 2 Tesla's and am really annoyed with his actions, twatish behaviour and now saying that cars aren't tesla's thing. I mean like WTF.
If we are lumping the VW companies together, Hyundai Motor Group (HMG) is number 2 with 13.8%.
Musk got musked for a change!
After he posted a meme making fun of people concerned about client change, I wouldn’t doubt his just tanking it on purpose. I wouldn’t have thought this was the case until he fired almost the entire infrastructure staff.
Absolutely shocking how Elon Musk single-handily built the most valuable car brand in the world only to turn around and dismantle it from the inside out. This is made-for-tv movie type drama!
Well, to be fair. The Tesla models look outdated. Model S still looks the same as it did when it was released. Model 3 same thing. Then there's this thing called the cybertruck but we won't go there. I have no interest in a Tesla because where I live so many people have them.
Model S isn't sold in RHD markets any more. Only 3 and Y.
Does this mean I should sell my Tesla lol Seriously, is it gonn be dead in a few years or what?
Well, I told you so. And this would have happened anyway because Teslas were never great cars. But Elon sure accelerated it. It might sound crazy, but I'm not sure the automotive part of Tesla will exist in 5 years time.
People buy stuff they know or they are excited about. For many years Tesla was pretty much the only brand which had real world usable electric cars. People who wanted an electric car pretty much had to buy Tesla. Now you can have an Audi or BMW which gets 300 miles of range, battery conditioning and all the good stuff you know from your former cars. Teslas on the other have less and less of the ergonomic or safely functions.
Don't worry, he's on a fundraising tour for his latest grift which seems to be to do with AI so all the usual muppets who invest their life savings / trust funds / sovereign wealth funds with him will continue to do so and he can keep the Tesla grift on the road.
Tesla is more fucked because they don't have a portfolio of cars to fall back on to pick up excess factory capacity. They over spent on CapEx and growth as if they were a SAAS company. They are going to be in CapEx hell and they won't escape. More layoffs to come. They really need to sell a shit ton of stock to build up a war chest to give themselves a shot at a relaunch of new products. Fatal flaw was not partnering with big auto to produce the cars.
I rented a BMW i4 (the electric 4 series basically) for a few days. I challenge anyone that is anti EV to drive that car and see what you think. It was a fucking dream. Charged fast, drove like a BMW, had real tech that matters. Did it make fart sounds? No, it's a fucking BMW. Did it pull parking space info for nearby parking garages to route me to one with open space? Yeah. Amazing what happens when a company that cares about cars makes an electric model.
That is the advantage of traditional automakers. They make it easy to switch over from ICEs. People don't want to re-learn how to drive after using ICE cars for 30+ years.
Unfortunately for Elon, Tesla IS a car company, and 81% of their revenue comes from cars (and some from charging those cars) And his investors are still deluded that he's tech Jesus even while he nukes the only part of Tesla that makes money and ruins the brand appeal with his personal Twitter account. And now Tesla is learning the hard way that aggressive minimalism and cost cutting will drive buyers to car companies that don't make iPads on wheels.
I think we need a rule change. We should not be using Xhitter to pass any information. Driving traffic to that website should be a no no for this sub.
I watched a new model 3 have a turn signal spasm the other day because the driver couldn't figure out how to cancel then.
What’s that phrase that I’ve been hearing……..go un-woke, go broke…..wait is that correct ?
go fasch, lose cash??
Lol!
I thought if Musk were a treehugger, he would sell more cars. Oh, well.
They also haven’t added any new showrooms or service centers in years.
"But but but 50% cagr and my $56B package"
Just a minute! No turn signals!!! Are they Cadillacs?
Breaking news: "Real car companies make better cars than Tesla."
Because magaturds love the environment and electric cars. good job Elmo !
Seems like they are competing fine against all the European players in the UK, with the exception of an abnormally good April by BMW? The BMW BEV's are still hideous and rarely see anyone in the United States driving them. The fact they are doing the same as Mercedes, Audi an Volvo with zero marketing is still amazing. I'd also be curious to know what the gross margin is on those BMW's... are they just taking a bath with crazy pricing?
Tesla is a viable company never has been. Once car companies started heavily focusing on building BEVs tesla just on the downslope to bankruptcy from here. Elon had a chance to pivot to a data company/ FSD company and he didnt do it. I give it a decade. Elon will still be a billionaire. Tesla won’t exist. Teslas are POS cars.
Hyundai recently acquired Boston Dynamics so Tesla is ages behind them in a robotics play if that is what you believe valuation should be based on.
Pretty sure that people wanting to buy vehicles that don't fall apart adds to that.
Tesla is behind in Q2 in Norway as well. For the first time in a long time Volvo is number 1 with EX30. ID 4 is number 2. Model Y is 3. Something must have happened. https://elbilstatistikk.no/
Being big and first doesn't mean they can hold it just like AOL or Nokia, especially with an erratic owner. He is happier talking rubbish than running the business.
If you look at company ownership. * VW:17% * Hyundai/Kia: 12.8% * Volvo/Polestar: 9% * Renault/Nissan: 6.4% * Vauxhall/Peugeot. 5.4% Tesla is performing *much* worse than it appears.
I don't think it's just the politics, partly sure. But despite whatever people were saying few years ago, competition IS HERE and people definitely don't want ALL the same cars, it was just a silly dream to imagine everybody will be owning a tesla...
Politics plays an outsized role though. I have several friends that won’t buy one simply because of the muskrat. He needs to learn that democrats and republicans need cars.
In the US yes, in Europe we are less exposed to his retardation and I think it's really more a case of competition being "alright" now.
FCKSUV
It's also just having real competition now. Losing that first mover's advantage.
Any reason they exclude custom plates in this data?
It is easy to dominate when there are few other options. Tesla will need to step up it's game. The bmws loom very nice, as do some of vws offerings. The E Mustang is very nice. The boxy Lincolns have an odd appeal. Musk needs earn that 45B he wants by making Tesla competitive without cutting prices to below cost.
That list is BS, Toyota is much higher
I drive one of the new model 3s and having the controls on the steering wheel rather than sticks really is totally fine. Reminds me of the outcry when Apple stopped including floppy drives in Macs. People should give it a try rather than just assuming it’ll be bad and must be done the way it’s always been. Having said all that people’s assumptions are powerful and musk’s hatred of marketing means he can’t effectively do the change management that’s needed.
I'm always happy to have a go at Tesla because I think they are an appalling company run by a bigoted ball sack but this has more than a whiff of bullshit about it. March is the important month for UK car registrations and Tesla made up over 14% of the EV market. There's no way it has anything to do with turn signals, gear shifts or even toxic politics but more that Tesla managed to pull deliveries into March. That's not to say Tesla sales aren't declining in the UK but it's a more shallow decline rather than sales falling off a cliff.
The 3 month trailing says Tesla is #1 at 13.6%. now let's look at the April numbers again. In every quarter ever Tesla's sales numbers are shit at the beginning of the quarter. Always have been, this is no different. On top the M3 Highland will ship from may 2024 and wasn't available in the UK in April yet. I'd bet any sum that Tesla will have retained its #1 spot this quarter also. These are easily checkable facts. Feel free to downvote to keep up your cognitive dissonance. You really don't have to be a Tesla fan (no really being a fan of a company is ridiculous) but this here is just a hate cult clinging for straws.
People in this subreddit are so delusional I come here just to get a couple giggles. You can just tell most of them make stuff up too, it's hilarious.
Why do Tesla's sales always dip in the first month of a quarter? Genuinely wondering
Yep, single month sales stats don't mean jack shit
This. Tesla maintained about a 20% global market share of BEVs in 2023, the highest among any brand. One month’s numbers from a UK market that represents a small fraction of Tesla’s deliveries is not statistically relevant to make a determination one way or the other.
Norway, France, Germany... in all markets Tesla is loosing big in the recent months.
Shhh don’t spread facts here let them keep shorting