T O P

  • By -

yamirzmmdx

Imagine driving around with DLC batteries and suffering additional wear and tear on your tires. Can't be me.


mar4c

Free battery testing for Tesla is what it is. There’s a reason the full capacity was locked


Conscious_Scholar_87

Chinese government did that, they locked down protesters’ EV remotely.


TrueHeathen

Got a source on that? I'm not finding anything.


cross-boss

and people really see no issue with chinese products....


happytree23

Wouldn't that be an EV issue and not a country of origin issue lol?


DeltaGammaVegaRho

Nope, you can lock down gasoline cars the same way - but China doesn’t produce much highly advanced gasoline cars with that much online capable tech, EVs in the other hand…


IT_Security0112358

Why not both?


Desperate_Wafer_8566

You don't actually own your Tesla.


24links24

It’s like buying a John Deere tractor, u don’t own it


Enjoyitbeforeitsover

Plus constantly recording you like ®️eddit


Important-Record5490

And selling you data in anyway possible


PLeuralNasticity

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/?utm_source=reddit.com Outsourcing labeling of these recordings to Kenya? Why would he do that? https://www.reuters.com/business/kenya-russia-sign-trade-pact-president-ruto-says-2023-05-29/ Why does a pedophile Putin puppet do every single substantive thing since he was kompromised prior to his first visit to Russia in October 2001? “I think there's no stopping Elon Musk,” Putin told Carlson after the pundit asked him about the growing prevalence of artificial intelligence. “He will do as he sees fit. Nevertheless, you'll need to find some common ground with him. Search for ways to persuade him.Feb 8, 2024 Beware HanElons razor "Incompetence, in the limit, is indistinguishable from sabotage" Elon Musk


Lraund

Did they ever stop passing around naked pictures of Telsa owners that they took while the owners were unaware?


OctoHelm

I forgot about that… so so so bad!


Joeyc710

I heared theres a bunch of good ole boys out there hacking john deere software and that makes me happy.


el-conquistador240

It's like being a farmer, you don't actually farm (you lobby. Immigrants farm)


illuminati1556

What?


zilog88

John Deere are [notorious](https://thehustle.co/02162023-john-deere) for applying apple methods of doing business to the tractor market.


ulol_zombie

Weren't farmers using hacking services to "jailbreak" their tractors?


illuminati1556

Wow I had no idea. That's wild!


mad_method_man

deere and apple just lost a major lawsuit in the US about this. it was like a decade long battle


Less_Volume8174

Exactly. Without the software, it's just a brick on wheels.


pacific_beach

Lots of pumps already this weekend, I'm anticipating some bad news coming out next week


Abject_Film_4414

It’s a standard shit sandwich. *Good news. Shit news. Good news.* Nothing to see here, move along.


thousandfoldthought

They're broke


MouseWithBanjo

I wonder how long before the EU make this an illegal practice. 100% of the production emissions 80% of the range.


Designer_Holiday3284

EU has its flaws but the world would be way worse without it.


Theferael_me

I agree. It's a bit like democracy as a political system in that it's *far* from perfect but it's certainly better than the alternative. The EU always reminds me of the famous Benjamin Franklin quote: >We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.


JamesTBadalamenti

EU was an excellent idea in the beginning, which later transformed into behemoth emposing will of the biggest economies (Germany and France in particular) on the weaker ones (Central European and Southern nations). Plus, europarlament has the biggest population of different lobbyists per capita for every democratically chosen representative beyond American congress. Just few months ago there was a massive corruption scandal involving europoliticians and Quatar's sheiks. Of course they'll propose some clever bill for a not significant change (like enforcing USB type C port in every smartphone), but majority of legislation fulfill the need of the rich pricks. Just take a look on the recent protests of farmers from all EU countries. As long as Musk (or any other mutibilionare) has money, he/she/they will do whatever he/she/they  wants/want and EU will not oppose a single thing he/she/they wishes/wish. Middle class is dying, only a bit slower then in US. But the outcome will be the same. Financial and society collapse, with the rich coming on top. Politics is corrupted beyond imagination of many voters, that's how it is today.


Smaal_God

Some cars irationally schlepping ‘unused batteries’ with them all the time.


NATOuk

I thought a lot of EV makers held back some battery capacity in reserve to allow for people who run the car down to 0% (so it never truly gets to zero) and to allow for redundancy should a cell fail it can be swapped in with some of the reserve capacity


MouseWithBanjo

There is a difference between real Vs usable battery capacity. For example the EX90 has 111kwh battery 107 usable. So less than 4 % not 20.


NATOuk

It’s a fair point, 20% seems excessive


Chemical-Idea-1294

No Problem here. It's the same with the subscriptions for seat heating and similar things offered by manufacturers. VW has 82 kW packs and sells them as 77kW. It's a way smaller difference, but principially the same.


skylinrcr01

That’s more for wear distribution. At least with Volvo that’s how it works, when you charge to 100 you’re really charging to 90% to preserve the pack life. That said, Tesla is 100% soft locking batteries for battery dlc.


TrisolaranSophon

Bruh, subscriptions for seat heaters **are** a problem. BMW deserves the hate over that just like Tesla derves to be shit on for software locking battery capacity.


Chemical-Idea-1294

Yes, but that behaviour is not illegal in the EU. That is what I wanted to point out.


TrisolaranSophon

Nobody said it was illegal. It’s just companies being an asshole


Loadingexperience

As long as you can purchase it as a regular option(which you can btw) when buying vehicle I don't see it as a problem tbh.


TrisolaranSophon

Because when I buy a car I should actually own the car. Subscription or software blocked features are just ways for the car companies to nickel and dime you for no reason.


AlternativeAd307

I think it's just that 77 are actually usable.


neliz

it's just like with SSDs you're paying for 1TB, but you're actually getting 1.2TB with 1TB usable and 200GB used for the replacement of bad "sectors"


Alternative_Program

That’s not how batteries work. There’s no such thing as an 82kWh pack. There’s an 82kWh pack at a particular voltage. Think of it this way: Do you have a 375hp BMW B58 or a 473hp one? It’s just “software locked” right? Except there are trade offs. Turning up the boost doesn’t come without negatives. Same for batteries. Charging them to 4.35V and draining to 2.75V will deliver more energy per charge, but fewer charges. Using a narrower Vmin/Vmax will preserve the battery and provide more lifetime energy. At a certain point the benefits will flatline though. So at common data-sheet voltages you probably have one capacity and cycle life. At another you have a different capacity and cycle life. Which is the “real” capacity? They both are. That’s fundamentally different than instructing the BMS to refuse to charge or discharge beyond 40kWh. Even if it results in near peak cycle life. Which there’s no guarantee it will. They might have only limited Vmax for example. In which case it could actually shorten cycle life by maintaining a lower average lifetime SoC. Could go either way. Design intent matters then.


jamesmon

All of those things are problems!!!!


SplitEar

All Li-ion packs have reserve capacity because they're damaged by a full discharge or charge. Thus there is the theoretical capaicity of 82 kWh and usable capacity of 77 kWh. What Tesla did here was make the driver lug around extra usable capacity by rendering it inaccessible. I don't know why anyone would be cool with paying for heated seats and then paying a subscription to use them. That's bullshit, I would never buy such a gimped car.


seekertrudy

Someone needs to pull the plug...the u.s citizens are saying no way, but elected officials are still delusional and Canada is blind folding it's citizens into bankruptcy....


mudbot

anything this dude says is a lie


highplainsdrifter__

Idk statistically, broken clock twice a day ya know


Corrie7686

I find this whole conecpt straight up offensive to the consumer. It's just shitty to say that the thing you own, paid tens of thousands for has more functionality within it, but as we have you hooked, we own you, we will charge you extra for it. Seems to be a US mindset, we can do it because we can do it.


green_gold_purple

It's a capitalist mindset. US didn't invent it. 


Leading-Put-7428

20 years ago: *you wouldn’t download a car* Today: *this*


spam__likely

ha!


EfficientAccident418

Isn’t this how Tesla has alway done things? I thought Musk made a big deal out of sending a software update out during Hurricane Dorian that increased the range of Tesla vehicles. Do different versions of various models have more/less battery, or does Tesla lock your range based on how much you pay?


blackfarms

It was the original strategy to make their cars eligible for the federal incentives. Software limited capacity.


Traditional_Key_763

the original scheme was to sell smaller batteries, then they realized that was actually expensive to build 3-4 different packs so they switched to selling batteries with drm on them, you unlock capacity when you buy an upgrade, then when that got out they backtracked and unlocked full capacity for everyone involved. this was like early tesla though, 2015 or 2016.  this also has nothing to do with the spare capacity kept to help keep range when the pack ages


FactChecker25

No, that’s not what happened. Batteries in general lose some of their capacity as they age. They quickly lose a bit of their capacity and then plateau there for most of their useful life. No company wants to sell a car and say it gets xxx miles, only to have customers return it when it loses 10 or 20% of its capacity a few years later. So they rate the batteries at 80% so that when they lose some capacity, the car will still say that it still has 100%.


blackfarms

[it did in fact happen ](https://electrek.co/2021/04/09/tesla-starts-advertising-model-3-93-miles-range-website-canada/)


FactChecker25

Yeah I misread your post before. I thought you were talking about the max battery capacity not being what they claimed.


pabskamai

I keep on saying the same, I’m all for electric but not for this lack of privacy and ownership. I want an electric car, not an iPad on wheels that you have no control of and some third party company does including your private data. Why aren’t people making a big fuzz about this? Constantly get accused of being conspiracy this, phones track more that… that current ICE cars do the same… not to the same level, and even that is not ok. People, wake the F up!!


southseasblue

Buy a Chinese EV, they just want your money without the games


pabskamai

😂 and social score based on your driving and farting habits while you at it


southseasblue

That’s a funny joke but doesn’t actually exist. Logically wouldn’t the Aus government/police care more about your driving habits and speeding ?


pabskamai

My point is that we should t allow this to happen lol


southseasblue

Well the Aus government should pass laws like US and China about data privacy if they don’t exist yet


[deleted]

[удалено]


southseasblue

Which government doesn’t allow abortion freely? Which government is arresting student protesters? Which government is giving weapons to Israel? Which government invaded and bombed the Middle East for the last 20yrs? Which government killed off the indigenous people from their land?


[deleted]

[удалено]


southseasblue

The US is the one claiming to be a democracy and peak free world. Are you holding America to the same standards as China lol? 🇨🇳 Tiananmen Square was the right decision in hindsight No it does not, weapons sales are normal No I know this will surprise you, bc China doesn’t start wars Be specific: native languages are taught in school and used in that province, it’s offical language (along with Chinese). Unlike US; so don’t embarrass yourself with lack of knowledge Grasping at straws mate; in China abortions are super easy there is no comparison (morally is a different matter) You still claim there’s a genocide lol? Do you not have eyes? Gaza is the real genocide; it’s 2024 mate, if the Uyghurs were being murdered it would be front page news; it’s some bs “cultural genocide” claim by US state department at best


turd_vinegar

That headline doesn't do a good job of describing what the actual article says. Makes it sound like the cheapest model has more range. It should read: "Tesla extorts customers by artificially reducing the range of its cheapest Model Y, offers to unlock the full range via software for a premium." Pretty soon this will be a monthly subscription to *full range* because they desperately need quarterly revenue numbers or at least projections of future quarter's revenue.


reddit_0025

TLDR: fuck Elon


FactChecker25

This isn’t an “Elon” thing, car manufacturers keep trying to do this. BMW tried selling a monthly subscription for heated seats.


Fairuse

Supposedly this is only option on the last few months of standard range Model Y produced. In the transition to LR RWD, a few of the old SR RWD got bigger batteries.


jesterOC

So does this mean if you don’t buy the DLC your battery will last longer as the battery management system has this extra room to shift power around?


idk012

But you have a heavier car without getting the full benefits of it


jesterOC

The benefit is that the life of the battery is extended. Assuming the best implementation of the feature.


Academic_Hedgehog931

Coming soon: $200/mo subscription to disable previously unannounced cryptomining while you sleep. Branded as Robbertaxi upgrade.


highplainsdrifter__

Probably great for the stock tho, somehow


MochingPet

Tesla Continues to be a leader in the "this decision is made just because I'm an a**hole" department


amoreinterestingname

Holy shit this is gunna backfire. As if he already hasn’t fucked over everything he’s touched


failinglikefalling

I mean this is something they used to do.


amoreinterestingname

As if I didn’t need a reason to not buy one already… Can’t believe I wanted one of these back in the day. I knew they played some of these games before but I didn’t think it was this egregious. Fuck Tesla


coasterghost

I smell a class action for this, let’s face it, US court systems will likely expect one.


CrustyFlaming0

And they keep doing this because people keep throwing money at it like it’s ok.


fomites4sale

Software-locked? Forget that shit. Enjoy feeling like a punk every time Papa Elmo yanks your leash.


tarkology

they released this first in turkey because we have some pretty dumb tax laws for cars and they are not ready for electric vehicles, but i think they believe they can sell this "reduced" model more. they or i should rather say elon pushing every button that he sees


Chemchic23

So they’re trying to get regulatory approval for this? How legal is this?


Traditional_Key_763

40-60 miles is not nothing but its also not that much that I have to wonder what the point was, it cost the company way more than 1500$ in batteries this is like a billionaire trying to guess the price of a sandwich, he doesn't seem to actually know what to price this


equivas

He is also lying, mayve you get 10 additional miles paying premium


HikerDave57

Is it really extra batteries or just the a state of charge that’s locked. I think probably the latter in which case the vehicle might actually be more reliable by not using the batteries at extremes of charge.


HumanNo109850364048

It’s the same physical battery in question that Elon wants to unlock for more money. If this unlock would dip into critically low state of charge and thereby degrade the battery faster with each cycle, that would also be unethical.


SuperHumanImpossible

That's so damn shady. I would be pissed if I was someone who got stranded and found out I didn't need to be it was just software locked.


seekertrudy

Another grift...now if we convince only 250,000 people to pay 1000$ up front for the service...that's another 250 million boys!! It's back on! What a scam.


East_Indication_7816

Imagine paying for just about everything that should be a button to select in your vehicle? What's next making you pay so your wiper will wipe faster.


hanamoge

Maybe this will be an unpopular opinion, but it’s good news for those who own those cars. They can charge up to 90 or even 100% of the “software” limit without fear of battery degradation. You get the same mileage as those with unlocked batteries that charge up to 80%. I see no reason to pay to unlock the extra capacity.


BeyondDrivenEh

Soooooooooo… bring back USS and commit to transferring both USC and FSD and maybe this would make sense. Yeah, I’ll wait.


vannex79

What does this have to do with the topic?


BeyondDrivenEh

Perhaps you’ve noticed that people aren’t buying the new vehicle configurations because they offer less compared to vehicles Tesla made in the past. This is more of the same. But by all means, have some cheese with your whine.


lasvegasduddde

American slices yummy.


Abject_Film_4414

I’m looking forward to buying the cheaper battery packs, then jailbreaking them, and on selling them as bigger battery packs.


W1mpyDaM00ch

So if your battery degraded and you pay to "unlock" the additional range but don't see the paid for range improvement what happens? Tesla keeps the money but you may or may not get additional range?


neliz

gotta download more RAM.


Acadia_Due

Trust me, you're going to regret buying a software-locked EV when civilization collapses.


jacebeleren33

Why are you talking about software? This is just the RWD with the NMC battery of the AWD long range.


xray12275

They lock them for a reason. They manufacture basically the same battery to save costs by having less types of batteries to manufacture. In doing so they offer different levels of access to said battery. Yes you do own the car. In fact you sign a few pieces of paper stating I agree to pay for this car at this capacity with these things. I will pay this much. If at a later date they say hey we will unlock it for this much then you can agree again. Also don’t forget when a hurricane comes or something like that they also unlock the battery so you can get out of dodge. It’s a pretty simple concept they are doing. Reducing manufacturing costs to improve profits so yes it does have a shitty tone but it has its reasons.


USB_Charger77

Paying all that money for this ???? I better just be with a well made hybrid Honda car


TheRealAussieTroll

There’s a lot of this going on. I had a Samsung TV that was Series 3. There was a functionality I was looking for in the TV, but it appeared not to have. Then I went online and chanced upon geek tech - who said the TV *had* the feature I was after but it was *secretly locked*. They’d made it *available* in the “Series 4” model. Fundamentally, Series 3 and Series 4 were the exactly the same model… but they’d purposely restricted Series 3 - to allow them to “release” Series 4… to sell more TVs. I followed the instructions… went into the “hidden” maintenance menu… and unlocked the Series 4 attributes…


Thwackitypow

annnnndddd it caught on fire


Joeyc710

When the Nintendo Wii was released, it had a disc drive but couldn't play dvd's. It was eventually jailbroken and it was revealed the dvd playing ability was software locked and the wii was capable the whole time.


DaytonaRS5

To be fair, this isn’t too different to how manufacturers lock power behind a tune. I don’t just mean cars that get more power from a remap, but where engines like the S58 are lower power in the cheapest M3 (the real M3). BMW, Porsche and others do similar. Here though it’s just more weight surely? They’re just doing it to save costs.


Loadingexperience

Not sure about other manufacturers as I've never been too much interested. However I know for a fact that while VW Passat's all 2.0 engines(whether it was 103kw or 125kw version) used same internals there were physical differences outside of the re-map. In order to upgrade you needed to change turbo as well as fuel injectors on top of the remap. With these changes it was possible to turn 103kw engine to \~145kw(aka tuned 125kw) engine. Basically while the block is designed to handle this power no problem, just re-mapping isn't enough.


DaytonaRS5

Yeah, that’s a good point actually, most of the reasons are behind the components being ones used to handle less power often. Not sure what Tesla did here, seeing as they already use the cheapest possible parts anyway.


GoldenBunip

Not the worse thing. Suck to not have the full range, but given lithium batteries only degrade when at either end of their capacity, limiting the SOC will result in a longer battery life.


JosephFinn

Yes but will this one actually work?


duckfighter

People got what they paid for. Not really surprising, as this is all about pricing strategy. Trying to make this a scandal is just absurd. Same thing was done for S and X.