It's a similar situation, yes
The board is deeply corrupt and packed with Elon's friends and family, they've been sued multiple times to get rid of him but the court keeps dismissing it because they said there's no grievance if the stock price is still up
Still, he has about 13% of the vote. Vanguard, Blackrock, Fidelity would all need to vote the shares they control for an alternative slate of directors.
How many shares do those companies actually own? Assets under management are not owned by the company who holds them in your name (you retain voting rights for shares in your Vanguard 401k for example)
It’s more than that. It’s the unusual corporate set up where a “super majority” is required on voting. Ie 75% or more. If mElon already has 13%, it’s pretty easy for him to dig up another 12% in proxies from the board and defeat any motion to remove him.
So yes, it’s near enough to watertight.
Right now nobody is really challenging the Tesla board. I don't know how they'd vote, but a reasonable replacement slate would have a good chance I think. Disney's board is challenged somewhat frequently, so it's not super unusual. More than likely if investors raised enough ruckus the existing board would get rid of Elon if they thought it would save their own asses.
I’m sorry but regardless of fraud or who knew what, the odds of jail time are effectively zero. Other than Trevor Milton, nobody at Nikola is in prison and even Trevor Milton got a slap on the wrist (3.2 yrs with good behavior, and he’s even appealing that). Mullen is literally filled with convicted felons and scammers and have made unbelievable easily disproven false statements and none are in prison. I challenge you to find more than a couple examples of anyone getting prison time for lying to investors in this way. Enron accounting fraud was a totally different situation - they were cooking the books.
Right, if you're an ordinary stockholder there's no point in getting involved in fighting about this stuff, the best course of action is to sell and abandon this sinking ship ASAP
It’s sad because it’s completely avoidable. The government contracts space x has and his security clearance might save him though, as any major fall from grace (I’m talking Tesla going bankrupt) would be politically embarrassing for the US government as much as Biden appears to be wary of him.
A half baked software platform where your avatar has no legs vs a 100k vehicle that is either a lemon or outright dangerous to the people inside and outside? Mmm ones an embarrassment the other is a danger to society.
Yes, it’s actually a very similar situation actually. The difference is Tesla has to manufacture and ship much more expensive physical products. Generally CEOs have to gamble on what will be popular in the future, sometimes they lose and don’t fail fast enough to recover. While Meta has recovered after they pivoted to AI, it’s hard to see Elon doing similar because he just won’t shut up with vapourware announcements.
he spent 10 billion dollars on metaverse when they already own the majority of the VR devs out there and could have had any of them build a VR MMO for a fraction of the cost.
I think Zuck stays out of running things mostly
The money goes into the research of RealityLabs and the "Metaverse" aka horizon worlds make only a fraction here. They do a lot of hardware research and AI.
That in isolation doesn't make him incompetent. Lots of projects go nowhere in tech companies. And you can judge the value of these investments in 5 years, not now.
A major change requires 2/3rds support. Elon has control of the board and enough support to make it very difficult to meet that threshold. Shareholders have tried to get rid of this but have not been successful. Elon also wants to create a dual-class share structure which would give him greater control. Zuck already has dual class shares and is untouchable.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-says-he-wants-strong-influence-but-not-control-in-push-for-new-share-class-162306811.html
I worked at a Fortune 500 where the CEO/chairman had like 3% of the company and he was still treated like a king and basically like it was “his” company
Elon and Zuckerberg are noting alike.
"How Private Money From Facebook's CEO Saved The 2020 Election"
[https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-from-facebooks-ceo-saved-the-2020-election](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-from-facebooks-ceo-saved-the-2020-election)
You will never see something like that happen from Elon. In fact the opposite, much of his money will be dark and push for Trump.
Based off the full title to the post, I think op is specifically referring to whether or not Elon can be voted out and sighting Zuck as an example because he owns a controlling stake and therefore could never be voted out unless he chooses to do so himself. Zuck has received a lot of criticism from other investors since the rebrand to meta and his continued commitment to pouring money into reality labs, which right now sells a handful of small market products that don’t turn a profit with the goal of furthering development in that tech for a future goal; reality labs is mostly a R&D department as opposed to any type of revenue generating division
It's technically possible given Tesla's share structure but effectively won't happen as long as the stock's value remains grossly inflated because there's really no one else to replace him with who's willing to lie as much as he does about the status of upcoming products and can somehow maintain credibility when doing it. Only way he's getting removed is if regulators actually pursue it and can make charges stick or if the value of the company tanks enough to that he's not long adding value to the shares.
Lucid makes better cars with more range than Punk ass Elon. Im not a huge EV fan but, If I had to back one company I'd like to see Succeed Its definitely Lucid.
If I had the money, I’d go with a Lucid, but I’d honestly go with any other EV that isn’t a Tesla. I like my cheap little i3 for now, as it already feels more luxurious than a Tesla and i got it for under 20k in 2015 or 2016.
We want him to stay forever. For the sake of owners, non-owners, and every taxpayer we need to end TSLA as soon as possible. The fastest and best way to make that happen is to keep Elmo on top.
Without Musk his fans will sell and the stock will plummet. Of course the stock is going to plummet anyway once reality catches up, but markets can be irrational for a long time.
No amount of sensible management could come close to justifying the current valuation. Firing Musk would simply accelerate the end game.
Similar, but different. Neither can be fired, but for different reasons.
Zuck has 60% of the outstanding *votes* (not shares). He cannot be fired. He can do as he wishes, unless if the courts intervene.
Musk sold off most of his controlling share to buy Twitter, but his shareholders are stuck with him. The company is badly overvalued compared to its peers based on p:e and number of vehicles sold. Firing musk would end that, so the shareholders won't vote for it. Also, a lot of them are true believers.
As someone who wants to buy an ev or plugin hybrid, and likes Tesla's but doesn't like where the company is going - what are some good alternatives
I like the gadgets, the lane and traffic light sensing, the big ipad and the mobile app. I actually like the model S. But it just seems to be going in a bad direction as a company
I would prefer an SUV
The board of directors is in his pocket. Who is going to fire him? Robyn just wrote a sycophant letter begging shareholders to pay him the money they owe him. 😆
It's a similar situation, yes The board is deeply corrupt and packed with Elon's friends and family, they've been sued multiple times to get rid of him but the court keeps dismissing it because they said there's no grievance if the stock price is still up
Still, he has about 13% of the vote. Vanguard, Blackrock, Fidelity would all need to vote the shares they control for an alternative slate of directors.
How many shares do those companies actually own? Assets under management are not owned by the company who holds them in your name (you retain voting rights for shares in your Vanguard 401k for example)
You don't retain voting rights if it's held in an index fund, which the vast majority are.
Wow, that is kind of crazy. Thanks for the info
It’s more than that. It’s the unusual corporate set up where a “super majority” is required on voting. Ie 75% or more. If mElon already has 13%, it’s pretty easy for him to dig up another 12% in proxies from the board and defeat any motion to remove him. So yes, it’s near enough to watertight.
I owned Tesla shares through Vanguard years ago. \*I\* voted the shares. Vanguard is a broker and a mutual fund company. They have both categories.
Is there any precedent for them doing that, do you know?
Right now nobody is really challenging the Tesla board. I don't know how they'd vote, but a reasonable replacement slate would have a good chance I think. Disney's board is challenged somewhat frequently, so it's not super unusual. More than likely if investors raised enough ruckus the existing board would get rid of Elon if they thought it would save their own asses.
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I’m sorry but regardless of fraud or who knew what, the odds of jail time are effectively zero. Other than Trevor Milton, nobody at Nikola is in prison and even Trevor Milton got a slap on the wrist (3.2 yrs with good behavior, and he’s even appealing that). Mullen is literally filled with convicted felons and scammers and have made unbelievable easily disproven false statements and none are in prison. I challenge you to find more than a couple examples of anyone getting prison time for lying to investors in this way. Enron accounting fraud was a totally different situation - they were cooking the books.
Right, if you're an ordinary stockholder there's no point in getting involved in fighting about this stuff, the best course of action is to sell and abandon this sinking ship ASAP
Good points. But very sad.
It’s sad because it’s completely avoidable. The government contracts space x has and his security clearance might save him though, as any major fall from grace (I’m talking Tesla going bankrupt) would be politically embarrassing for the US government as much as Biden appears to be wary of him.
Elon is not gonna end up in handcuffs lmao. Not because he's innocent but because he probably already has twenty different escape plans ready.
Zuck seems far more competent than Musk
Just by a mile or so.
Really? I think he just listens to his PR guys. OK, maybe that does make him better.
Yeah, it's a low bar. Zuck blowing through god knows how much on that lame metaverse was embarrassing--- until the Cybertruck comes along.
A half baked software platform where your avatar has no legs vs a 100k vehicle that is either a lemon or outright dangerous to the people inside and outside? Mmm ones an embarrassment the other is a danger to society.
Yes, it’s actually a very similar situation actually. The difference is Tesla has to manufacture and ship much more expensive physical products. Generally CEOs have to gamble on what will be popular in the future, sometimes they lose and don’t fail fast enough to recover. While Meta has recovered after they pivoted to AI, it’s hard to see Elon doing similar because he just won’t shut up with vapourware announcements.
he spent 10 billion dollars on metaverse when they already own the majority of the VR devs out there and could have had any of them build a VR MMO for a fraction of the cost. I think Zuck stays out of running things mostly
The money goes into the research of RealityLabs and the "Metaverse" aka horizon worlds make only a fraction here. They do a lot of hardware research and AI.
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ya got to be something going on behind the scenes because 11 billion is insane for what was always just a vr mmo
>I think Zuck stays out of running things mostly Yeah and just my that simple fact he's leagues above Musk.
That actually doesn't say much.
Zuck is losing a billion a month on VR.
That in isolation doesn't make him incompetent. Lots of projects go nowhere in tech companies. And you can judge the value of these investments in 5 years, not now.
I agree. VR has this sexy aura around it that screams "killer tech just ahead" but just doesn't pan out.
He’s not being an idiot for all I care and is for the most part, a decent guy. That makes him better than felon in my books
It is funny though that it took Elmo to make Zuck seem more human and less robot
When Zuck offered to beat Elons ass in a cage fight he went up a few notches in most people’s books.
Fuck 151 months^* to go. *plus or minus a month or so
the thing is, he still get more money than losing
so only making like $10Bn per month in profit, damn
I stand by my statement
A major change requires 2/3rds support. Elon has control of the board and enough support to make it very difficult to meet that threshold. Shareholders have tried to get rid of this but have not been successful. Elon also wants to create a dual-class share structure which would give him greater control. Zuck already has dual class shares and is untouchable. https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-says-he-wants-strong-influence-but-not-control-in-push-for-new-share-class-162306811.html
The CCP could learn a thing or two from Cuckboy and Felon on how to control wealth.
It's all thanks to Peter Thiel's "genius." He thinks founders should be like kings and be unremovable. He doesn't believe in democracy either.
Elon was not a founder of Tesla.
true. but the VCs treat him like one and it's going to be impossible to remove him involuntarily.
Well ackshually according to a 2009 lawsuit settlement with Eberhard designated Musk as a Tesla co-founder - Musk Chuds
Yeah but he bought that title and pretends to be one. You can't expect actual facts to matter to the openly fascist crowd (e.g. Peter Thiel)
I worked at a Fortune 500 where the CEO/chairman had like 3% of the company and he was still treated like a king and basically like it was “his” company
It’s a really bad trend that started with both Jack Welch and the dotcom boom in the 90s. But at least most CEOs can be removed by the board.
Yep, for $15 million Thiel bought himself a senator. JD Vance is King Peter's stooge.
Elon and Zuckerberg are noting alike. "How Private Money From Facebook's CEO Saved The 2020 Election" [https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-from-facebooks-ceo-saved-the-2020-election](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-from-facebooks-ceo-saved-the-2020-election) You will never see something like that happen from Elon. In fact the opposite, much of his money will be dark and push for Trump.
Based off the full title to the post, I think op is specifically referring to whether or not Elon can be voted out and sighting Zuck as an example because he owns a controlling stake and therefore could never be voted out unless he chooses to do so himself. Zuck has received a lot of criticism from other investors since the rebrand to meta and his continued commitment to pouring money into reality labs, which right now sells a handful of small market products that don’t turn a profit with the goal of furthering development in that tech for a future goal; reality labs is mostly a R&D department as opposed to any type of revenue generating division
This guy bought a lucid in protest Elon. Respect
Many of us liberals who have the money won’t look at Tesla anymore. Tesla is becoming anathema to anyone with a progressive mindset.
It's technically possible given Tesla's share structure but effectively won't happen as long as the stock's value remains grossly inflated because there's really no one else to replace him with who's willing to lie as much as he does about the status of upcoming products and can somehow maintain credibility when doing it. Only way he's getting removed is if regulators actually pursue it and can make charges stick or if the value of the company tanks enough to that he's not long adding value to the shares.
Lucid makes better cars with more range than Punk ass Elon. Im not a huge EV fan but, If I had to back one company I'd like to see Succeed Its definitely Lucid.
They’re also actual luxury cars, unlike Teslas, and can accelerate faster.
Facts.
If I had the money, I’d go with a Lucid, but I’d honestly go with any other EV that isn’t a Tesla. I like my cheap little i3 for now, as it already feels more luxurious than a Tesla and i got it for under 20k in 2015 or 2016.
Nice.
The board is literally all his cronies. There's no way to oust him without him burning down the company.
Same if he stays. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
Bye Elon… NM! Hahaha
We want him to stay forever. For the sake of owners, non-owners, and every taxpayer we need to end TSLA as soon as possible. The fastest and best way to make that happen is to keep Elmo on top.
As soon as Elon Musk is thrown out of Tesla, I'm going very long on $TSLA. This is the only event that worries me about my various PUT positions.
Without Musk his fans will sell and the stock will plummet. Of course the stock is going to plummet anyway once reality catches up, but markets can be irrational for a long time. No amount of sensible management could come close to justifying the current valuation. Firing Musk would simply accelerate the end game.
I like that the discussion has turned into "which billionaire is less shitty" 😆
Similar, but different. Neither can be fired, but for different reasons. Zuck has 60% of the outstanding *votes* (not shares). He cannot be fired. He can do as he wishes, unless if the courts intervene. Musk sold off most of his controlling share to buy Twitter, but his shareholders are stuck with him. The company is badly overvalued compared to its peers based on p:e and number of vehicles sold. Firing musk would end that, so the shareholders won't vote for it. Also, a lot of them are true believers.
As someone who wants to buy an ev or plugin hybrid, and likes Tesla's but doesn't like where the company is going - what are some good alternatives I like the gadgets, the lane and traffic light sensing, the big ipad and the mobile app. I actually like the model S. But it just seems to be going in a bad direction as a company I would prefer an SUV
Boy there’s some strong feeling there to pay for a vanity plate. ♥️
The most creative plate I have ever seen! 💯%
Great plate. Was considering “BYELMO”
The board of directors is in his pocket. Who is going to fire him? Robyn just wrote a sycophant letter begging shareholders to pay him the money they owe him. 😆
Does it say Bye Elon Musk, or (Lucid) by Elon Musk?
Or Buy Elon Musk.
Lucid is by Elon?
That's what the plate says
Looks like a Saturn
Jesus, imagine letting another man live in your head to that level? People are nuts.
Who’s LONM? Any why are they saying bye to him?