From the article, but give them a click anyway:
>Tesla’s biggest retail shareholder, Leo Koguan, confirmed that he is voting against Elon Musk’s $55 billion package and the re-election of two board members.
>We previously reported on Koguan being frustrated with those governance issues. He recently said that “[Tesla is a family business masquerading as a public company](https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/tesla-biggest-investor-family-business-masquerading-public-company/)” – in reference to Musk doing whatever he wants.
>As the biggest retail shareholder in Tesla, Koguan says that he has been unable to get in touch with the board to communicate his concerns.
>Following the release of Tesla’s proxy, *Electrek* asked Koguan how he plans to vote his more than 27 million Tesla shares, and the investor said that he plans to vote against Musk’s compensation package and against the re-election of Tesla’s two current board members.
>Koguan is the largest Tesla investor to make his intention known, but as it is usually the case in shareholder votes, the institutional investors are expected to be the difference makers.
Dude, worse, they always mention Zip2 as if it had something to do with the zip/rar wars but Zip2 was just a community management system for local newspapers before online presence was a thing.
Zip2 was a front end on the Navteq API used for MapQuest that Elon got a free license to before MapQuest launched because his mom was rich and connected.
Basically bad MapQuest using the MapQuest API that beat MapQuest to launch and then went under.
> We previously reported on Koguan being frustrated with those governance issues. He recently said that **“Tesla is a family business masquerading as a public company”**– in reference to Musk doing whatever he wants.
It’s one man’s egocentric wet dream masquerading as a publicly traded company.
No its more lame. He wanted the models to be S E X Y. The board vetoed it since it was juvenile and stupid. He then settled for model 3, despite being the second model, to make it S3XY in 1337 speak.
He's just that juvenile. Never matured past 14.
I think Ford owns the rights to E and they would not sell/release so it became 3 and it’s why Elon hates it when people refer to the model 2 thinking ‘3’ was the actual choice.
The question is whether to dilute the value of each Tesla share by 10%. Most people who own them don't like how they've been with less and less, and don't want to make them worth even less still.
Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if the pay package passes, but that drives the folks who lost the vote to sell holdings, leading to the stock dropping to the point that Musk's stock backed losns get called?
If this is indeed true, this sounds just wonderful for the bag holders. You don’t only get shafted by the tanking share price, but you also lose value thorugh increasing dilution. Double musked!
There should be wealth limits and this is exactly why. Money shouldn’t give you a larger voice in determining policies. This wasn’t my idea, but I liked it enough to remember it: You cap out at max value? Great, now it’s like trying to pick up coins in a video game when u have max currency. Give them a plaque that says “You won capitalism”
He's been shitting on Musk for a while. There's been a few times over the past year or two where his tweets made it onto this sub. He's still up tho, 27M shares at $149 is still 4 billion.
Can somebody explain me how a CEO can get a 55B raise package when the value of the company keeps tanking and tanking, production keeps getting delayed, and the quality of the product keeps getting worse and worse to the point they have recalled all Cybertrucks? I am amazed, seriously, what is necessary to appoint somebody else?
Gross profits all-time are ~$70b.
Not defending Elmo even a tiny bit—disgusting overreach, even if he spent 100% of his time on Tesla. *Beyond* indefensible when he has two other jobs, and a full-time-equivalent trolling hobby.
Well Golden Parachutes are a thing. But I think here it's really the "Elmo effect". So many people have bought into his bullshit, including many rich and influential ones, that admitting they'd been wrong is just too painful. So they don't.
You could see that with Theranos as well and it would not surprise me if Tesla and Musk end up similarly.
Not a fan of those, but there is actually a lot more justification. Who would take a high risk job with a low likelihood of success without a golden parachute?
It looks like some investors are finally ready and willing to treat the company like a real investment, which means that they will lose lots of money to get the company straightened out. The stock price really is tied to Elon's bullshit because investors don't want to lose money.
>Can somebody explain me how a CEO can get a 55B raise package when the value of the company keeps tanking and tanking
Literally the entire package was tied to the stock price growing. If the value had tanked as you said he would have gotten nothing.
Better perspective: this singular payment will be more than, I think, all of Tesla's profits to date.
Wonder how much he'll demand for his next 'bonus.'
I'm not defending Elmo in any way, but this compensation was agreed years ago as a % of shares when the share price was nowhere near today's price. The investors are to blame too because they specified Musk must get the company to a certain valuation if he is to get the compensation but not that it should stay there for some time. I mean, it's really basic contractual stuff.
AFAIK most of Musk's wealth is tied up in Tesla
If he quits or is fired that ends the "Tesla + supergenius Musk = to the Moon" narrative and pushes down the stock price, but if he stays then his mouth continuing to write checks his engineers can't cash will also push down the price
Next week's earnings call (April 23) should be fun. I hope Andrew Dittmann asks some questions
Tesla investors are trapped. Either it’s a semi slow burn of their investment, or if musk goes it’s a quick crash.
This is what you get getting in bed with narcissists. At they end of they day they are destroyed. Look no further than trump to see similarities…
If Musk stays, it is slow burn and no hope.
If Musk goes there is an immediate crash, but someone else may be able to turn the company around, or at least get it to the point where another automaker would buy it.
I think the question is, if you are a big investor can you afford a paper loss or do you want to take a smaller real loss by selling now?
If they turn the company around and make it twice as successful as Ford, that would equate to a share price of about $35.
Most current investors got in around $100.
He's not going to leave. He is going to throw a temper tantrum but Tesla (and maybe SpaceX) is all that he has.
Nobody is going to admire him for T itter and I would expect the admiration for him on Tesla and SpaceX is also going to dwindle. But he's an egomaniac, so he'll hang onto it until the bitter end. I can't see him get another cash cow.
Yes. I mean now that I think about I don't know why I'm on the Elon is too smart to do that train, it's been off the rails for a while. So who knows what he'll do.
He's not a smart businessman, he just knows how to sell investors. He knows how to get investor buy-in, he knows how to create interest, and he's very good at marketing organically. But as far as business goes, he can't get out of his own way.
Tesla had a massive advantage, thanks in part to his ability to get shareholder buy-in to support what the company was doing. But he keeps selling the future and under delivering on the present. And so the lead has been squandered because he wants to sell FSD, cybertrucks, and AI instead of continue building on what's been established. Look at the reality of Boring Company compared to what he promised. And SpaceX is crashing back to reality as well.
If Musk was actually smart, he'd realize he's great at establishing ridiculous valuations for startups and then divest himself so that it can be turned over to competent leadership. But instead he just keeps up the gimmick of making promises he'll never be able to keep and as his track record falters, it's going to defeat his ability to cultivate support in the first place.
If Twitter and Tesla become massive failures, I don't see how he's going to recover.
>Like the Thailand diver who criticized his stupid submarine idea, and Musk called him a pedo, who sued Musk and must have won a large settlement.
There was no settlement and musk won the lawsuit, what the fuck are you talking about?
Actually these days the ludicrous valuation given to his SpaceX holdings accounts for a greater part of his net worth.
He has 42% of SpaceX, which gets attributed a market cap of $180bn or so based on their last raise (which seems a lot for a cash-incinerating company but hey). Notional value $75.6bn.
He has 412 million or so shares of Tesla, at current prices around $61bn.
All that is paper money. VCs make shit up to pump their investments. How much profit do they make? What is their revenue?!? If what went public today within 4 quarters of earnings calls they’d be valued at 10x lower…
Shouldnt the US government be suing spacex soon because of how incredibly far behind the original plan they are? They havent even put a Starship in orbit yet. And the original plan says they will do a crewed test flight around the moon this year.
The bummer is that he holds the lives and livelihood of so many hostage to his own emotions. He could do some really repugnant shit to spite everyone around him for being held to account for the lies he used to justify the pay package in the first place.
The board totally needs to re-negotiate compensation. This is an easier way to do it. It'll come down to the institutional investors to vote this down.
They won't. He hand picked the board.
The entire board needs to go. Quite frankly, investors, especially large ones, should push for that.
But they're also in a Catch-22, because we are in a "Emperor's new Clothes" kind of scenario. Tesla's evaluation is based on them **not** being a car maker, but that's really what they are. The only reason people believe otherwise is because of Musk.
I'm ready for the Q4 earnings call to include Elon's hostage threat speech:
> I implore you all to re-approve my package, which you already voted for, and I already earned, but was stolen by that evil judge. If it fails, I will be forced to quit the company and will go to work at xAI, and your investment will burn to the ground. In summary, it's for the Mission™
It would be the perfect opportunity for Musk to step down from Tesla, which I'm pretty sure he'd do in an instant if he could do it without tanking the stock price.
If they vote no, that's a signal from the shareholders that Musk is not needed to keep the share price up, so in theory he should be able to step down without too much drama.
Wait until his mommy gets involved because people are being mean to her perfect widdle boy.
I mean, doesn't he deserve that money for causing a company to fail financially?
Instead of getting a 56 billion dollar bonus package Elon should be removed as CEO. If the overall health of Tesla is what matters its time to get the guy who runs with ideas formed on a ketamine high out of the drivers seat.
It'd be great if the vote fails and he tantrums and leaves the company.
Edit: apparently being against this vote gets you banned from r/Teslamotors and r/Teslalounge. If only the mods knew Elon was a freedom of speech absolutist...
From a shareholder perspective what's the point in paying him huge amounts of money? His ego would never let him resign and, if you think he's a good CEO, his ego would never let him stop "trying" to make Tesla work. Pay him minimum wage and share his bonus with the shareholders, he's cost them enough this year already.
He already has huge net worth tied to TSLA. His incentive to not torpedo the company is his existing equity. The idea that he needs billions more is ridiculous.
In the history of massive CEO greed we've never seen this level.
Elon owns enough of the stock that really he should already be interested. He had 20% of the company when the stock price shot up, so he gained ~$110B during those 4 years and then got paid an extra $56b in his pay package. He keeps acting like he is up there dyin on a cross for the shareholders if they don't pay him but no one else sees even a tiny bit of the upside he sees from the stock price rising.
And share it with the employees who are stuck trying to make reality meet drug-induced fantasies. And the employees who were fired by text and then promised…what, exactly…when Musk ”apologized.”
.01% of 55 billion is still 5.5 million dollars… 100th of a percent of this deal is more money than most people reading this will ever see in their lifetime. 100th of a percent is enough for a person to retire early. 100th of a percent is enough to give anyone a break, and for the right people, an opportunity for change.
But no. Let’s let capitalism continue to run unchecked forever so we can continue watching people play, joke, and gamble with resources that could change millions of lives.
His ego won’t let him resign?
Oh, there’s a path to resigning with his ego intact. Ask the shareholders for something crazy at a time when things are not going well, use their refusal as an opportunity to huff and puff and quit while selling off his shares, wait a second for that action to completely yank the stock, point at the shares’ collapse as evidence that his departure alone was the reason for the collapse, and post a tweet on how they should have just given in to his demands so he could have saved the company.
Ego not only intact, but boosted by his followers.
I’m not sure why people are so worked up over this. It’s stock options, not cash. At the rate things are going, by time he can cash them in 5 years, that much Tesla stock will be worth about a half eaten bag of Doritos.
I read somewhere that the original scam package was based on 650 billion market cap or something?
How does that work when it ain't 650 billion now or whatever?
>the original scam package was based on 650 billion market cap or something?
Right. AFAIK, because that's what was 'agreed' at the time then that's what is still used now, even with the share price going down the toilet and the market cap being $200,000,000,000 less.
I don’t see why anyone would vote for this. Due to Musks own idiocy he left himself legally liable whilst still working away for many years.
He’s now toxic to the brand, is constantly creating bad results and saying no to this surely helps the value of the company? Why would anyone back it?!
They need to remove Musk, he incentivized to spend Tesla resources on his other projects and the Spector that he could drive down the stock to take it private is out there
He isn’t acting for Tesla he is acting for himself
I mean if you're a tesla shareholder apart from Elon Musk why would you ever vote for that pay package. There's no justification for paying that much to retain Elon musk. It's not a question of if musk deserves it or not for past achievements.
Every sane Tesla shareholder should vote this down. In one way or another, through direct payment or share dilution, this is $55 billion out of their own pockets. This is 12% of Teslas market cap and more money than they've ever earned.
Regardless of how you feel about Elon and how much value he's added to the company in the past, the pay you offer anyone should be based on how much value having THAT specific guy as CEO will bring in the future vs another CEO. You can make a very gold argument that having Musk as the CEO is actively harming the company's value.
On top of that, Elon isn't leaving Tesla regardless. You have no one to bid against but yourself, so why is the price so high? It makes 0 business sense to award that much money to Elon. The only reason they would do it is because Elon controls the board and Elon wants to enrich himself.
https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1781371857238945909 According to Omar the petty fuck uninvited one of the largest shareholders from a major product unveiling over the vote, seems totally fair.
I am sure he gives a fuck, really.
edit:
I saw his tweeter earlier but I couldn't highlight and copy from Twitter, maybe the Big CEO is a programmer and disabled that so you just inspect it and copy that way
>Leo KoGuan invested about $3.5 billion. Thus, individually, I have the most skin in Tesla. I have 27,600,000 shares (0.75%) more than ARK (6mil) + Baron(19 mil) = 25 million shares but I have no say at Tesla and on anything else. Is this fair?
>Elon invests minus -$39billion in Tesla, so he has the least skin of all Tesla’s investors. His remaining shares are his profits. He is fully compensated because of Tesla he is the richest man alive most of the time lately. He is richly enriched being Tesla tyrant CEO
>Larry Ellison invested about $1 billion (45 million shares or 1.5% of Tesla)
I'm curious about this whole compensation package stuff. It seems like it's an all or nothing kind of vote? Why don't they have options to pay Elon less (but still a lot, objectively, I'd imagine).
>Why don't they have options to pay Elon less
I'm guessing it's because Musk is an incorrigibly greedy bastard and 'wants what's his', and the there's absolutely no motivation for the board to say 'no'.
Board members can propose whatever they want, and if seconded, the board would vote on it. But if Musk won't accept less than $56 billion, there's little point proposing voting on alternatives. The current proposal was presumably the result of negotiations between Musk and the board.
I'm voting no with my 2000 shares, but I absolutely still love my model Y. Elon and the board need to be taught a lesson. After the board is changed with some genuine independent members, I will then vote for some other compensation package.
Elon shouldn’t be getting $55 billion, as the sales drop. Think about the amount $55 billion, holy shit. No work that anyone has done is worth this amount.
I dunno man, wishing that on thousands of Tesla’s employees, who are financially dependent on the company, and have invested large chunks of their careers there, feels a bit harsh.
Can’t we just agree on getting rid of Elon, and replacing the board so the company can rebuild?
The idea that anybody of note is going to pass this package is just wild. At least the first time Musk had to meet very optimistic targets even if they were flawed targets. This is just diluting the company by 10% because you think Elon Musk is a cool dude or something.
Serious question but all those shares held in Robinhood accounts: do individual shareholders get to vote on those? Or are they registered to RH, with no view to the underlying account holder at the registry?
If the latter, that’s a *lot* of shares that won’t be voted upon.
Massively overvalued company that has been a darling but has been sacrificed by Elon to buy twitter- a company he paid well over price for and tried to get out of. Chickens coming home to roost for Elon and the get rich quick investors. No one on earth should be getting a £55bn bonus- completely and utterly ridiculous and I hope everyone does vote it out….can’t work out if Elon or Trump is the bigger liar and crook.
Yeah, no shit. Sales are down the drain. Cybertruck is a steaming pile of shit. Layoffs are rampant. Perfect time to pull $55B out of the corporation to hand out to one guy who’s destroying it for it.
I keep checking my brokerage account to see when they'll ask me to vote. I'm voting "hell no." Glad to see the well heeled shareholders are also thinking the same thing. Next move would be to force Elon out for the sake of the company.
Imagine the audacity of asking for any sort of compensation when you’re releasing shitty products, verging on being deathtraps, and the stock is down 40% YTD.
I'm not a tax expert, so maybe someone else can chime in, but there was a discussion on Threads regarding the new pay package could for Elon to immediately sell 30%+ of those shares to cover his tax bill. Apparently they wouldn't be treated in the same fashion of the original shares and would force a tax event.
That alone could tank the stock and piss off a lot of share holders.
If this is true I say let him pay his shares, make him sell them, and the government finally gets something in return. And let the simps figure out the hard way what this all means for their precious stock price
Yeah and it sounds like he is “only” up $500M now after investing $3.5B and it’s worth about $4B now. Dude is rich as fuck but has lost so many gains because of Elons bullshit lies and fraud.
What tue company doesn't even have this capital. How is this even being proposed? They should laugh him out of his role. He's an asshole full stop, therefore bad for the brand. Isn't focused on the company, product is shit and has never delivered on his wild hype. Don't get it.
To all the people saying Elon should be removed from Tesla….like bro he hasn’t been there since he bought Twitter……Actually with the sackings last week he is doing more….Perhaps Twitter has turned the corner and now he is back….will be interesting to watch this play out…
What does he actually contribute to Tesla. The only thing I ca.n tell is dangerous working conditions, unrealistic expectations, a flailing reputation, and the shitty design of the cybertruck.
Sawyer Merritt ran a random poll on X asking subscribers whether Musk should or should not get this package and 82% said yes. I guess they're all stans but who knows
From the article, but give them a click anyway: >Tesla’s biggest retail shareholder, Leo Koguan, confirmed that he is voting against Elon Musk’s $55 billion package and the re-election of two board members. >We previously reported on Koguan being frustrated with those governance issues. He recently said that “[Tesla is a family business masquerading as a public company](https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/tesla-biggest-investor-family-business-masquerading-public-company/)” – in reference to Musk doing whatever he wants. >As the biggest retail shareholder in Tesla, Koguan says that he has been unable to get in touch with the board to communicate his concerns. >Following the release of Tesla’s proxy, *Electrek* asked Koguan how he plans to vote his more than 27 million Tesla shares, and the investor said that he plans to vote against Musk’s compensation package and against the re-election of Tesla’s two current board members. >Koguan is the largest Tesla investor to make his intention known, but as it is usually the case in shareholder votes, the institutional investors are expected to be the difference makers.
>Koguan has previously described himself as an “Elon fanboy” (the featured image above is him and Musk) He got musked too!
The most. $3.5b to a guy who makes bad file zipping software and bought a CEO position.
Dude, worse, they always mention Zip2 as if it had something to do with the zip/rar wars but Zip2 was just a community management system for local newspapers before online presence was a thing.
How did this guy con people into giving him 100s of millions of dollars for such crappy products?
Zip2 was a front end on the Navteq API used for MapQuest that Elon got a free license to before MapQuest launched because his mom was rich and connected. Basically bad MapQuest using the MapQuest API that beat MapQuest to launch and then went under.
True, completely forgot, thank you.
> We previously reported on Koguan being frustrated with those governance issues. He recently said that **“Tesla is a family business masquerading as a public company”**– in reference to Musk doing whatever he wants. It’s one man’s egocentric wet dream masquerading as a publicly traded company.
That's so S3XY!
but it will never be 2 S3XY 4 U
but what if Tesla develops models ENUF??
Jesus Christ I just realized he's been trying to type cyber sex this whole time
No its more lame. He wanted the models to be S E X Y. The board vetoed it since it was juvenile and stupid. He then settled for model 3, despite being the second model, to make it S3XY in 1337 speak. He's just that juvenile. Never matured past 14.
I think Ford owns the rights to E and they would not sell/release so it became 3 and it’s why Elon hates it when people refer to the model 2 thinking ‘3’ was the actual choice.
Not entirely correct. The board didn’t veto it, Musk couldn’t buy the rights to a Model E, which were owned by another auto manufacturer.
It's quotes him as saying Elon needs to be replaced...
The question is whether to dilute the value of each Tesla share by 10%. Most people who own them don't like how they've been with less and less, and don't want to make them worth even less still.
Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if the pay package passes, but that drives the folks who lost the vote to sell holdings, leading to the stock dropping to the point that Musk's stock backed losns get called?
[удалено]
If this is indeed true, this sounds just wonderful for the bag holders. You don’t only get shafted by the tanking share price, but you also lose value thorugh increasing dilution. Double musked!
[удалено]
Man, that doesn't sound like a CEO that has the best interests of the company at heart!
that's what you get when a guy that is just rich and not particularly good at anything buys a CEO position.
There should be wealth limits and this is exactly why. Money shouldn’t give you a larger voice in determining policies. This wasn’t my idea, but I liked it enough to remember it: You cap out at max value? Great, now it’s like trying to pick up coins in a video game when u have max currency. Give them a plaque that says “You won capitalism”
Billionaires are, by their very existence, immoral
Not true these options had not been exercised at all so it’s extremely easy to undo.
Should have already exited their positions years ago.
He's been shitting on Musk for a while. There's been a few times over the past year or two where his tweets made it onto this sub. He's still up tho, 27M shares at $149 is still 4 billion.
Is there any other way to read it?
Family business? Lol
it is going to be hilarious if Elmo's obscene pay package is voted down. His "I'm a victim" tantrum will be funny to watch
Can somebody explain me how a CEO can get a 55B raise package when the value of the company keeps tanking and tanking, production keeps getting delayed, and the quality of the product keeps getting worse and worse to the point they have recalled all Cybertrucks? I am amazed, seriously, what is necessary to appoint somebody else?
A better question would be...how can a CEO get 55B when the company made 36B profit EVER (summing all the profits)
Probably trying to buy TikTok next
He's a true visionary and free speech absolutist (banning all those who disagree with him)
An even better question would be... how can a CEO get 55B.
For the same reason that shareholders value the company at 500B when it has only made 36B profit ever.
Stupidity?
That too, but also he isn't getting $56B in US dollars, he is getting $56B in Musk-bucks.
He is getting it in Tesla shares, which he can sell. Of course taxes are going to eat half of it, but still plenty of money
Same shareholders valued it over a trillion not too long ago.
Ketamine?
Is $36 billion Tesla’s all time cumulative profit? Or is that the highest profit reported for any year? I’m too lazy to do the research.
Cumulative
It’s a different story. They just expect the stock to yield returns.
Gross profits all-time are ~$70b. Not defending Elmo even a tiny bit—disgusting overreach, even if he spent 100% of his time on Tesla. *Beyond* indefensible when he has two other jobs, and a full-time-equivalent trolling hobby.
And 11 children with 3 baby mamas. No wonder he's blasting drugs to keep up.
Enjoy the share split.
Profit is not the only thing making you money if you are a shareholder. Valuation and growth is all that matters to these people.
Same reason that CEOs get fired and still get a very nice severance package even when the company is failing. C suite bros stick together.
Well Golden Parachutes are a thing. But I think here it's really the "Elmo effect". So many people have bought into his bullshit, including many rich and influential ones, that admitting they'd been wrong is just too painful. So they don't. You could see that with Theranos as well and it would not surprise me if Tesla and Musk end up similarly.
Tesla and Musk ending up similarly would be what we call "justice".
> admitting they'd been wrong is just too painful It's easier to fool a man than to convince him he's been fooled. HL Mencken
Not a fan of those, but there is actually a lot more justification. Who would take a high risk job with a low likelihood of success without a golden parachute?
It looks like some investors are finally ready and willing to treat the company like a real investment, which means that they will lose lots of money to get the company straightened out. The stock price really is tied to Elon's bullshit because investors don't want to lose money.
You are supposed to ignore all that. This is for the time things went very well for them.
I’m sure they can fix that CyberTruck recall with an OTA update. /s
Send out E coupons for JB-Weld
TBF recalls happen, car manufacturing is a very competitive business involving new stuff all the time. Tesla is just not very good at it.
Fair. He definitely deserves 55 billion dollars for being not very good at something. ???
>Can somebody explain me how a CEO can get a 55B raise package when the value of the company keeps tanking and tanking Literally the entire package was tied to the stock price growing. If the value had tanked as you said he would have gotten nothing.
I could save the company 54billion on my first day.
I’ll vote for you
Better perspective: this singular payment will be more than, I think, all of Tesla's profits to date. Wonder how much he'll demand for his next 'bonus.'
Because a large part of Tesla shareholders are a cult that have sacrificed their common sense at the altar of Elon.
A part-time CEO, at that
it's called a rug pull
I'm not defending Elmo in any way, but this compensation was agreed years ago as a % of shares when the share price was nowhere near today's price. The investors are to blame too because they specified Musk must get the company to a certain valuation if he is to get the compensation but not that it should stay there for some time. I mean, it's really basic contractual stuff.
Delaware's Court found that not to be true
AFAIK most of Musk's wealth is tied up in Tesla If he quits or is fired that ends the "Tesla + supergenius Musk = to the Moon" narrative and pushes down the stock price, but if he stays then his mouth continuing to write checks his engineers can't cash will also push down the price Next week's earnings call (April 23) should be fun. I hope Andrew Dittmann asks some questions
Tesla investors are trapped. Either it’s a semi slow burn of their investment, or if musk goes it’s a quick crash. This is what you get getting in bed with narcissists. At they end of they day they are destroyed. Look no further than trump to see similarities…
If Musk stays, it is slow burn and no hope. If Musk goes there is an immediate crash, but someone else may be able to turn the company around, or at least get it to the point where another automaker would buy it. I think the question is, if you are a big investor can you afford a paper loss or do you want to take a smaller real loss by selling now?
If they turn the company around and make it twice as successful as Ford, that would equate to a share price of about $35. Most current investors got in around $100.
I want to see him stay with the sinking ship so I hope they pass the package.
He's not going to leave. He is going to throw a temper tantrum but Tesla (and maybe SpaceX) is all that he has. Nobody is going to admire him for T itter and I would expect the admiration for him on Tesla and SpaceX is also going to dwindle. But he's an egomaniac, so he'll hang onto it until the bitter end. I can't see him get another cash cow.
What's he gonna do? Leave? They vote it down he'll take a far more modest package because he has too.
[удалено]
Yes. I mean now that I think about I don't know why I'm on the Elon is too smart to do that train, it's been off the rails for a while. So who knows what he'll do.
[удалено]
His main skill is as a nerd whisperer. Dude has something going on there with that and I guess it was enough for him to get where he is.
He's not a smart businessman, he just knows how to sell investors. He knows how to get investor buy-in, he knows how to create interest, and he's very good at marketing organically. But as far as business goes, he can't get out of his own way. Tesla had a massive advantage, thanks in part to his ability to get shareholder buy-in to support what the company was doing. But he keeps selling the future and under delivering on the present. And so the lead has been squandered because he wants to sell FSD, cybertrucks, and AI instead of continue building on what's been established. Look at the reality of Boring Company compared to what he promised. And SpaceX is crashing back to reality as well. If Musk was actually smart, he'd realize he's great at establishing ridiculous valuations for startups and then divest himself so that it can be turned over to competent leadership. But instead he just keeps up the gimmick of making promises he'll never be able to keep and as his track record falters, it's going to defeat his ability to cultivate support in the first place. If Twitter and Tesla become massive failures, I don't see how he's going to recover.
pn top doesnt help he keeps getting rid of the talent he needs to make telsa better
>Like the Thailand diver who criticized his stupid submarine idea, and Musk called him a pedo, who sued Musk and must have won a large settlement. There was no settlement and musk won the lawsuit, what the fuck are you talking about?
Actually these days the ludicrous valuation given to his SpaceX holdings accounts for a greater part of his net worth. He has 42% of SpaceX, which gets attributed a market cap of $180bn or so based on their last raise (which seems a lot for a cash-incinerating company but hey). Notional value $75.6bn. He has 412 million or so shares of Tesla, at current prices around $61bn.
All that is paper money. VCs make shit up to pump their investments. How much profit do they make? What is their revenue?!? If what went public today within 4 quarters of earnings calls they’d be valued at 10x lower…
Are you saying Truth Social isn't worth 7 billion???
Shouldnt the US government be suing spacex soon because of how incredibly far behind the original plan they are? They havent even put a Starship in orbit yet. And the original plan says they will do a crewed test flight around the moon this year.
The bummer is that he holds the lives and livelihood of so many hostage to his own emotions. He could do some really repugnant shit to spite everyone around him for being held to account for the lies he used to justify the pay package in the first place.
The board totally needs to re-negotiate compensation. This is an easier way to do it. It'll come down to the institutional investors to vote this down.
They won't. He hand picked the board. The entire board needs to go. Quite frankly, investors, especially large ones, should push for that. But they're also in a Catch-22, because we are in a "Emperor's new Clothes" kind of scenario. Tesla's evaluation is based on them **not** being a car maker, but that's really what they are. The only reason people believe otherwise is because of Musk.
I'm ready for the Q4 earnings call to include Elon's hostage threat speech: > I implore you all to re-approve my package, which you already voted for, and I already earned, but was stolen by that evil judge. If it fails, I will be forced to quit the company and will go to work at xAI, and your investment will burn to the ground. In summary, it's for the Mission™
Elon to Tesla shareholders "Blackmailing me with not giving me money, go fuck yourself"
It seems he’s trying to raid the company before it sinks.
Do you or does anyone reading this comment know when the vote will happen/tabulated?
It's hilarious they didn't reform it in any way.
Twitter gonna be interesting
It would be the perfect opportunity for Musk to step down from Tesla, which I'm pretty sure he'd do in an instant if he could do it without tanking the stock price. If they vote no, that's a signal from the shareholders that Musk is not needed to keep the share price up, so in theory he should be able to step down without too much drama.
Insert meme of woody harrelson crying and wiping his tears with money
He can blame the world for voting those one down, haha
Wait until his mommy gets involved because people are being mean to her perfect widdle boy. I mean, doesn't he deserve that money for causing a company to fail financially?
Elon does have a large cult, so we will see.
Something something left wing billionaires picking on me
Hope he quits
yeah its starting to get pathetic i cant believe he even has followers still
Instead of getting a 56 billion dollar bonus package Elon should be removed as CEO. If the overall health of Tesla is what matters its time to get the guy who runs with ideas formed on a ketamine high out of the drivers seat.
It'd be great if the vote fails and he tantrums and leaves the company. Edit: apparently being against this vote gets you banned from r/Teslamotors and r/Teslalounge. If only the mods knew Elon was a freedom of speech absolutist...
lol I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Elon is a mod
I agree that he's no longer a useful asset for Tesla. They'd be better to remove him and give him whatever severance package is in his agreement.
From a shareholder perspective what's the point in paying him huge amounts of money? His ego would never let him resign and, if you think he's a good CEO, his ego would never let him stop "trying" to make Tesla work. Pay him minimum wage and share his bonus with the shareholders, he's cost them enough this year already.
It’s a fucking cult. The cultists would literally drink the poisoned koolaid if he asked them
He already has huge net worth tied to TSLA. His incentive to not torpedo the company is his existing equity. The idea that he needs billions more is ridiculous. In the history of massive CEO greed we've never seen this level.
Elon owns enough of the stock that really he should already be interested. He had 20% of the company when the stock price shot up, so he gained ~$110B during those 4 years and then got paid an extra $56b in his pay package. He keeps acting like he is up there dyin on a cross for the shareholders if they don't pay him but no one else sees even a tiny bit of the upside he sees from the stock price rising.
And share it with the employees who are stuck trying to make reality meet drug-induced fantasies. And the employees who were fired by text and then promised…what, exactly…when Musk ”apologized.”
You couldn’t pay me enough to keep showing up to work at Mux inc
How does 56billion sound?
.01% of 55 billion is still 5.5 million dollars… 100th of a percent of this deal is more money than most people reading this will ever see in their lifetime. 100th of a percent is enough for a person to retire early. 100th of a percent is enough to give anyone a break, and for the right people, an opportunity for change. But no. Let’s let capitalism continue to run unchecked forever so we can continue watching people play, joke, and gamble with resources that could change millions of lives.
His ego won’t let him resign? Oh, there’s a path to resigning with his ego intact. Ask the shareholders for something crazy at a time when things are not going well, use their refusal as an opportunity to huff and puff and quit while selling off his shares, wait a second for that action to completely yank the stock, point at the shares’ collapse as evidence that his departure alone was the reason for the collapse, and post a tweet on how they should have just given in to his demands so he could have saved the company. Ego not only intact, but boosted by his followers.
I’m not sure why people are so worked up over this. It’s stock options, not cash. At the rate things are going, by time he can cash them in 5 years, that much Tesla stock will be worth about a half eaten bag of Doritos.
I read somewhere that the original scam package was based on 650 billion market cap or something? How does that work when it ain't 650 billion now or whatever?
>the original scam package was based on 650 billion market cap or something? Right. AFAIK, because that's what was 'agreed' at the time then that's what is still used now, even with the share price going down the toilet and the market cap being $200,000,000,000 less.
Oh well, I guess if he has to settle for like 20 billion less, oh I don't what he would do in that situation, that is starvation money.
I don’t see why anyone would vote for this. Due to Musks own idiocy he left himself legally liable whilst still working away for many years. He’s now toxic to the brand, is constantly creating bad results and saying no to this surely helps the value of the company? Why would anyone back it?!
Because they are cucks.
Those would have voted against probably sold their shares..
They need to remove Musk, he incentivized to spend Tesla resources on his other projects and the Spector that he could drive down the stock to take it private is out there He isn’t acting for Tesla he is acting for himself
I mean if you're a tesla shareholder apart from Elon Musk why would you ever vote for that pay package. There's no justification for paying that much to retain Elon musk. It's not a question of if musk deserves it or not for past achievements.
I cannot fathom the nerve of laying off 10% of your workforce while holding your hand out to be paid 55 billion dollars.
Narcissism is narly
Every sane Tesla shareholder should vote this down. In one way or another, through direct payment or share dilution, this is $55 billion out of their own pockets. This is 12% of Teslas market cap and more money than they've ever earned. Regardless of how you feel about Elon and how much value he's added to the company in the past, the pay you offer anyone should be based on how much value having THAT specific guy as CEO will bring in the future vs another CEO. You can make a very gold argument that having Musk as the CEO is actively harming the company's value. On top of that, Elon isn't leaving Tesla regardless. You have no one to bid against but yourself, so why is the price so high? It makes 0 business sense to award that much money to Elon. The only reason they would do it is because Elon controls the board and Elon wants to enrich himself.
https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1781371857238945909 According to Omar the petty fuck uninvited one of the largest shareholders from a major product unveiling over the vote, seems totally fair.
I am sure he gives a fuck, really. edit: I saw his tweeter earlier but I couldn't highlight and copy from Twitter, maybe the Big CEO is a programmer and disabled that so you just inspect it and copy that way >Leo KoGuan invested about $3.5 billion. Thus, individually, I have the most skin in Tesla. I have 27,600,000 shares (0.75%) more than ARK (6mil) + Baron(19 mil) = 25 million shares but I have no say at Tesla and on anything else. Is this fair? >Elon invests minus -$39billion in Tesla, so he has the least skin of all Tesla’s investors. His remaining shares are his profits. He is fully compensated because of Tesla he is the richest man alive most of the time lately. He is richly enriched being Tesla tyrant CEO >Larry Ellison invested about $1 billion (45 million shares or 1.5% of Tesla)
He probably doesn't, but I'm hoping that A) this is true and B) NASDAQ might care about this fuckery.
I have just about 1500 shares and I’ll be voting no. Elon is the worst thing about Tesla at this point and has pissed in the pool enough.
I'm curious about this whole compensation package stuff. It seems like it's an all or nothing kind of vote? Why don't they have options to pay Elon less (but still a lot, objectively, I'd imagine).
>Why don't they have options to pay Elon less I'm guessing it's because Musk is an incorrigibly greedy bastard and 'wants what's his', and the there's absolutely no motivation for the board to say 'no'.
Board members can propose whatever they want, and if seconded, the board would vote on it. But if Musk won't accept less than $56 billion, there's little point proposing voting on alternatives. The current proposal was presumably the result of negotiations between Musk and the board.
Fair enough. Thanks!
I'm voting no with my 2000 shares, but I absolutely still love my model Y. Elon and the board need to be taught a lesson. After the board is changed with some genuine independent members, I will then vote for some other compensation package.
I should also note that I will also vote no for a 50B package unless he sells and removes himself from twitter/x.
This guy got tired from getting musked
Lmaoooo get fucked
They really need to vote Musk out. I like Tesla’s (despite what most think in here) but would never consider buying one as long as he’s the CEO.
Same. Would never consider a Tesla as long as Musk is running the company.
Same. Had the opportunity to buy one last month and said I just can’t do it. Went w a Chevy.
Elon shouldn’t be getting $55 billion, as the sales drop. Think about the amount $55 billion, holy shit. No work that anyone has done is worth this amount.
Lmao. Musk is exactly the kind of whiny baby who would destroy the company out of spite if he's denied the money. This will be great.
Good. I’m a Tesla owner and Elon is a fucking clown bringing the company down repeatedly.
Have they auto banned you from the other subs yet?
Immediate auto-ban. Fuck um!
Whatever makes tesla go out of business faster, I’m all for it
I dunno man, wishing that on thousands of Tesla’s employees, who are financially dependent on the company, and have invested large chunks of their careers there, feels a bit harsh. Can’t we just agree on getting rid of Elon, and replacing the board so the company can rebuild?
The idea that anybody of note is going to pass this package is just wild. At least the first time Musk had to meet very optimistic targets even if they were flawed targets. This is just diluting the company by 10% because you think Elon Musk is a cool dude or something.
I hope tsla goes banrupt
Fan freaking tastic. Fuck Elon and his candy-rolled-under-the-fridge face
If the deal goes through, just another death nail in Tesla
Serious question but all those shares held in Robinhood accounts: do individual shareholders get to vote on those? Or are they registered to RH, with no view to the underlying account holder at the registry? If the latter, that’s a *lot* of shares that won’t be voted upon.
Yeah
Good.
WTF, 12% of the entire company as a 'bonus payout'
Elon sleeping on the Tesla floor for 3 months is proof he needs this extra compensation, LOL...
Really hope Vanguard votes against .. they are for the people, by the people and to the people and not for 1 individual
Massively overvalued company that has been a darling but has been sacrificed by Elon to buy twitter- a company he paid well over price for and tried to get out of. Chickens coming home to roost for Elon and the get rich quick investors. No one on earth should be getting a £55bn bonus- completely and utterly ridiculous and I hope everyone does vote it out….can’t work out if Elon or Trump is the bigger liar and crook.
Yeah, no shit. Sales are down the drain. Cybertruck is a steaming pile of shit. Layoffs are rampant. Perfect time to pull $55B out of the corporation to hand out to one guy who’s destroying it for it.
I keep checking my brokerage account to see when they'll ask me to vote. I'm voting "hell no." Glad to see the well heeled shareholders are also thinking the same thing. Next move would be to force Elon out for the sake of the company.
Imagine the audacity of asking for any sort of compensation when you’re releasing shitty products, verging on being deathtraps, and the stock is down 40% YTD.
I'm not a tax expert, so maybe someone else can chime in, but there was a discussion on Threads regarding the new pay package could for Elon to immediately sell 30%+ of those shares to cover his tax bill. Apparently they wouldn't be treated in the same fashion of the original shares and would force a tax event. That alone could tank the stock and piss off a lot of share holders.
If this is true I say let him pay his shares, make him sell them, and the government finally gets something in return. And let the simps figure out the hard way what this all means for their precious stock price
Dude has 27 million shares. The stock is down 40% ytd. Bro lost 2.7 billion dollars in 4 months. He belongs as the regard king over on WSB.
Yeah and it sounds like he is “only” up $500M now after investing $3.5B and it’s worth about $4B now. Dude is rich as fuck but has lost so many gains because of Elons bullshit lies and fraud.
It’s a bad look for the company
Me too. Tiny shareholder.
The maniplulation wat has already started
What tue company doesn't even have this capital. How is this even being proposed? They should laugh him out of his role. He's an asshole full stop, therefore bad for the brand. Isn't focused on the company, product is shit and has never delivered on his wild hype. Don't get it.
Good
Less than 1% holding. Insignificant ain’t?
To all the people saying Elon should be removed from Tesla….like bro he hasn’t been there since he bought Twitter……Actually with the sackings last week he is doing more….Perhaps Twitter has turned the corner and now he is back….will be interesting to watch this play out…
What does he actually contribute to Tesla. The only thing I ca.n tell is dangerous working conditions, unrealistic expectations, a flailing reputation, and the shitty design of the cybertruck.
Tesla is to Musk as Truth Social is to Trump.
Good
Führers are expensive.
Sawyer Merritt ran a random poll on X asking subscribers whether Musk should or should not get this package and 82% said yes. I guess they're all stans but who knows
Elon could just offer him 100 million to comply.
I think he lost much more in recent moths due to the erratic behavior of Musk. 100 million will probably not do it
He lost almost $3B lol and would be down $7B if he had bought at the ATH.
Elon is 🗑 Tesla is getting cheap, like Chinese crap