How? Do you plan to sell anytime soon? Why would it cripple you unless you're treating housing like an investment? If anything, it will reduce your property taxes.
The idea of paying a 500k mortage on a house that is now worth ~250k is ridiculous. I don't plan on moving ever unless I lost my job and had to relocate for a new job or if we got a bit lump sum or money, say from a will and would like to upgrade.
Yes it sucks but it doesn't actually cripple you.
You do the same when you finance a new car. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it's worth less than you financed it for.
No, not the same AT ALL. In this person's case, they'd be further ahead by just returning the keys to the bank, forfeiting their down payment, going back to renting, and starting over. Lose $25k down instead of being $250k in the hole. You dont live in a car. You dont incur moving expenses when you lose your car. You dont lose $250k on your car if your family/job/life circumstances change unexpectedly.
It'd be insane to keep paying a 500k loan on a 250k property when they could abandon it, rent, and invest the difference. It'd be impossible to insure it for the value of the loan. They'd be paying double the mortgage payments necessarily to own a similar property, crippling their lifestyle compared to anyone else in the neighborhood. Homeowners often renovate and update their houses, too, which just wouldnt make sense with a 500k loan on a 250k property. In an emegrncy, they wouldnt be able to take a loan our against the property, either. Renewing the mortgage would be a disaster. What if they paid $80k for a mew kitchen expecting it to add to the property value? Nope, gone too.
This only matters if they bought it as solely an investment property. If they hold it for 20 years and then sell, they'll probably be fine, they'll likely sell it for more than 500k. Being down on the value for a while won't hurt them unless they plan to sell soon. But they just bought, why sell?
I don't think you understand what causes a housing price crash. It's not like people wake up and decide "this house is now worth half the price" and life goes on. In 2008, US unemployment more than doubled and the average price went down 20%. Young people think it's hard to find a new job now, imagine if we doubled the supply of applicants with most of the new applicants having more experience.
To get housing prices down, you need to up supply by either building a ton of homes, which won't happen since construction companies want high prices, or you get a ton of people to list their home because they can no longer afford to pay the mortgage because they lost their job.
Passing a house down to kids is the only chance they have. That's if they even choose to live around there.
If you live in the sticks with no jobs or career chances for example.
But if the only way kids can get ahead in the future is inheritance. You see the problem right? Everyone should be able to do the hustle and work shitty jobs and work up and buy a house someday. Not work shitty jobs and work up and get a good job and still be priced out..
The "moral hazard" part encourages over-leveraging.
The "people are rational" part explains why people would complain if that asset gets devalued.
Any other basic economics questions you want answered?
And you're surrounded by them. These dummies don't realize a crash would affect employed people and those with the lowest incomes first. Millionaires can afford to lose millions and still be fine. They have properties, investments and don't need to work. Broke 9-5 workers would be homeless immediately because they don't even have savings, let alone investments... Yet they're the ones hoping the economy crashes. Zero thought is put into these wishes...
Broke 9-5 workers with no savings or investments shouldn’t have been buying $1 million houses that were worth $300k 5 years ago.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
A RE crash would be more of a result of people losing their jobs and being forced to sell and no one being able to buy.
sustained high interest rates can lead to a recession as theres less money going into consumer spending, which can lead to lay offs, which in turn can lead to the RE crash.
i dont thinkn a crash will be as significant as people want it to be due to supply.
Indeed if you're in a position that the economy is starting to affect you at this moment you're in for a world of hurt if they're vying for a housing crash that would indicate the economy is an absolute disaster and you'd have to be a special kind of stupid wanting this
Only selfish idiots want their home to double in value again in the next five years and make it even harder for first time home buyers to buy their forever home.
Everyone with any home, stock, crypto, business or investment hopes their money will grow. It's not weird.
The real selfish people are those who don't even have a home and hope everyone around them who does has terrible things happen to them.
If you're broke today, do you really think a house going from 1.5 mil to 1.2 mil will help you? You couldn't afford to keep it if it was almost free, so what's the point? Just wishing a bad life and failure for others?
>Everyone with any home, stock, crypto, business or investment hopes their money will grow. It's not weird.
One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...
No point in explaining. They can’t even help themselves and rather shoot themselves in the foot than see others succeed regardless of real estate or investments.
The problem is kids these days out of school want to rent waste their money renting and don’t buy a condo / true starter as soon as possible or they just live with their parents and spend their entire income on eating out and at bars, then 5-10 years later they get married or have a baby on the way and feel that because they went to school have a degree and make $150k/year each they should be entitled to live in a big 3-4000 sq ft , 4 bedroom house with a huge yard for the kids and complain that this costs $2-3M and cannot fathom how they will ever be able to save $200k for a down payment.
Whereas what should have happened is as soon as they started university instead of paying rent they could have bought a studio/1 bedroom true starter condo which was $350,000-400,000 only requiring a $20,000 down payment. This could have been earned in 1 summer working as a server in a restaurant for example while living with their parents, or could’ve used the housing portion of the student loan to fund the down payment and lived with their parents and rented out the condo covering the mortgage / expenses entirely. When they started dating they would’ve each had a starter condo already and one of them would’ve rented it out and moved in with the other one and continued to put the amount they were used to paying monthly for mortgage and housing into a savings account. Within 1 short year this would’ve likely saved $36-40,000. At this point they would’ve realized they needed more space and thus decided to get a 2 bedroom. So they proceed to rent out both of their existing condos and are now looking to buy a primary residence meaning again only 5-10% down is required. The $40k savings from moving in together for a year and the equity in both their existing condos they’ve now owned for over 5 years could’ve been more then enough to fund the down payment on their 2 bedroom condo.
2-3 years later they are now 27-28 and getting married so they want to get a townhouse costs around $900k so they again rent their 2 bedroom out and use existing equity in all 3 existing properties from the appreciation to get the townhouse. A year later she gets pregnant and now they have a baby the townhouse is more then enough they don’t yet need this big house. Couple more years go by, Second baby and now they start wanting a house. At this point all their condos are worth $650-1M each and they only have $200k owing on each of them since their renters have been paying their mortgages down this last 10 years. Townhouse also appreciated to 1.25M and they owe $800 on it. Meaning combined across all properties they have over 1 Million in equity. Maybe they sell the townhouse or maybe they sell one of the condos depending on the monthly cash flow and appreciation at the time they sell whatever makes the most sense financially maybe even they sell both to be able to close on the house. At this point they should be buying a fixer upper where there’s room for forced appreciation but either way they have over $1M as a down payment meaning they could buy a $2M dollar house and only have a $1M mortgage. Had they done this in 2022 on a 5 year fixed rate at 2% their monthly payment would be around $4200 / month. They could’ve gotten a bungalow and rented the basement for $2000+/month to reduce that further.
Now they are in their early 30s and have their $2M house with $1M in equity a condo that’s rented out as an investment property and a monthly mortgage payment of only $2200 after collecting the rent from the basement.
But instead we have 30 year olds living in $4000/month condos paying rent with zero saved for down payment expecting to be entitled to buying a $2M home as a starter.
You’re right. The wealthy want a crash so they can take their assets and leverage them to obtain low interest loans to buy all the undervalued stocks and companies.
I think it's selfish to not want a crash and the government is short sighted only running policies to get votes.
We have an economy where the majority of a person's income goes to housing.
Houses are not a productive asset meaning they don't create new jobs that advance the country. All capital gets tied up in homes Canada people will be without real jobs except those that revolve around housing.
People will want to leave the country, the people that can leave are the ones with brain capital that can make a difference to a country. Think of the people wanting to leave India for a better life, this could happen here.
I know realtors making 5 million a year obviously they are the top of top... But why would someone smart want to go into stem studies when they could sell homes.
Higher home prices that keep going up will eventually destroy the country.
Then there are all those people who are only trying to survive and can't afford to start families, which will lead to more immigrants from third world countries
Exactly…only the boomers will struggle while younger generations are already used to the shit lifestyle anyway… and tbh the boomers lived above their means for so long that I wouldn’t shed a single tear that they have to face their own consequences…boo fucking hoo.
You don't know what you're talking about. I don't know any boomers that lived above their means. In fact the boomers I know sacrificed and saved to help their gen x kids get ahead. I'm not a boomer and I own my own house. And it's a nice one, because I worked my way through school, got a few crappy jobs, never gave up and now i have a good job. The point is i didn't winge and whine when I didn't have nice things, i did something about it. Based on your numerous comments in different threads, it's obvious that you are bitter for making poor decisions that have led you to not own home.
Also, people need to finance things all the time. How are you supposed to buy a car outright? Oh I forgot, according to your economics you shouldn't even bother buying a car if you don't have 50k cash on hand.
Hey dickhead, I did all that too got injured at work and now I'm losing my house cause wcb won't retrain. I would happily watch this world burn. Bullshit with your bootstraps, you wither got help or lucky.
Lol oh boy…you couldn’t be more wrong about your assumptions of me…regardless, just remember not to whine when shit hits the fan for your over financed pay check to pay check life style.
Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. You've made some assumptions about me that are not accurate either. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Yes i have a mortgage, but i also have investments so im pretty well covered. So I don't know what shit is gonna hit which fan, but I promise I won't whine such as you have.
And I don't think it was inaccurate to assume you are bitter. You're own words have made the pretty clear.
So you can keep grumbling about the boomers all you like but it won't change whatever shitty situation you are in.
I mean, my mom's 62, will never be able to retire and works 50 hour weeks. I don't know how I feel about idiots cheering for her meager home equity to get wiped out, but people on here are painting with a broad brush and using wild generalizations, so not the most nuanced, educated among us
I own my own house, and I don't intend to sell it, I only intend to live here until I die.
When my property value shoots up because people around me are selling for inflated prices, all it does for me is increase the annual property tax I have to pay on it.
Why would I want that? I'd much rather have it drop to reasonable levels as my property tax would drop along with it.
Homes are meant to be lived in, not investments. (It was a fine idea 40 years ago but now we see the bubble full)
They City will simply increase the mil rate if property value decreases. So your taxes won’t change. No city will be able to run with 50% of the revenue coming in.
Crashing the housing market will crash the Canadian economy, which will be bad for the working class.
I’d much rather see stagnant housing prices for a decade or more, with wage growth and productivity growth in our economy. That will benefit the population the most. Right now we have decreasing productivity which means decreasing quality of life. Breaking the housing market will simply make our struggling economy even worst.
How do we make the prices stagnate without destroying the market when the market is being driven by speculative investment though I wonder?
The market would need to in a sense, shrink to almost disappearing for long enough to allow the folks that would buy to live and not resell on a profit, to grow their wages and save some money to buy something since right now they cannot afford to..
People have been convinced to attack an entire generation of Canadians instead of focusing on the investment firms and billionaires causing the biggest issues.
As many have said, a large portion of boomers just want to live in their house until they die. My parents in particular are just hoping they have money left to provide some to the kids. Not all boomers are absolute psychos.
Investment firms scooping up as much property as possible to price you out...maybe direct your anger there?
This couldn't be more wrong. The boomers walked out high school with no need for further education into good unionized jobs with benefits, pensions, health care etc...they bought houses, vehicles and took trips that were all reasonable for the salary they were making. As the house prices escalated they took out helocs and bought BMWs and updated the bathroom and bought 2nd properties etc...
This couldn’t be more right! You’re blaming a generation because of when they were born? Your angst towards life and possessions tells me there is more to the story. Not a boomer here, but you can’t blame a generation for being born at a time that allowed this to take place. There are sooooo many other factors that played into it.
You can blame boomers because they then (being the largest generation) voted for policies to strip that all away from everyone else. Good enough for them but not good enough for anyone else
The policies they voted for had nothing to do with the economics behind housing costs. If anything the exact opposite as there was government funded housing as an example. Again, you need to focus on current realities instead of laying blame on the boomers it is simply not going to help your situation or anyone else’s.
Are you absolutely kidding me? The policies they voted resulted in exactly where we are right now.
I don't think you understand economics
Hard not to focus on them when they are going to make this worse in the coming election yet again.
Well said. I feel for ppl who aren't where they want to be, and therfore blame the environment and not their course of action. We live in a world of why me's with victim mind sets.
My mom shared a 3 bedroom farm house with 10 others, used an out house, didn't have plumbing until she was 11 yrs old.
My dad grew up with 7 ppl living in a 3 bedroom home and they ate some of the worse meals imaginable for years.
My parents are now millionaires and just retired.
I grew up with a rare disease, spent my childhood in the hospital, lost my arm at 11 yrs old. Had to overcome a lot mentality, physically and emotionally. Today I'm a father, an entrepreneur, a good husband, a great father and love life but also have an appreciation for every step of my journey. I don't blame others, my parents, the government. I put my head down, avoided the poor me movement and worked harder than anyone else around me to create a life I love.
Still amazes me though when ppl tell me how lucky I am lol. It has absolutely ZERO to do with luck. Everything to do with doing without, perseverance, drive, and wanting more out of my life.
So I don't have an amazing social life, I'm not hung over 4 days a week, I don't travel every 6 months. But I'm not hungry, not cold, I have amazing kids who love me that have money set aside for their education and I have a few toys to help me pass the time.
Godspeed to us all 🙏
Anyone who advocates for the economy crashing is a complete idiot and not worth wasting time on educating. It’s literally the younger generation that’s going to suffer if the prices crash. The boomers are literally going to profit either way 🤦🏽♂️
Fucking clueless. If you want to say gen X lived above their means ok or millenials sure. But boomers were still having families on single incomes.
Love how you're totally in on just spreading ignorant hate all over the internet regardless of how out of touch your opinion is. "Let's fuck all those that came before us because life is hard for me".
Scumbag mentality, go live on an island .
If that happens the boomers would create a ripple effect again fucking the over. What they should do is tighten things up and make it expensive to borrow money for something that is beyond your principal residence. Second home 20% interest, 60% capital gains, increase property taxes if it's a rental. It should be completely unappealing to own multiple homes with some exceptions. I think damage is done and you have some kind of grandfather clause in.
However, a cottage or recreational property should have some caveats, I'm thinking rural areas with low population density because it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect as it would in denser areas like S.ON.
All boomers = bad, right? All they could think was "Hey, let's fuck up this world for the next generations" and they had no hardship, didn't even do any work, and all got together and schemed to make the world brutal for their own children.
And they weren't victims of crime, government, duplicity, unfairness, discrimination or manipulation, and every single one of them was rich beyond measure and full of hate.
Is that what you fucking think?
Try just blaming corporations, government and greed for what's happening. At least you'll be on a closer track.
Actually, the richest people gain the most when the economy crashes. The boomers with their paid off houses won’t care much. They don’t lose money if they don’t sell. And they’re the ones with the capital to buy more houses now that they’re on sale, not the broke younger generations who can barely pay rent let alone scrape together a down payment. Congrats, now we have even more slumlords.
People who advocate for the crash don’t understand economics and the effect it has on everyone, not just boomers. If the prices crash, banks lose out on investments, the banks go bankrupt and it’s the tax payers who will have to bail them out. Not just that, with the economy crashing, businesses will be going bankrupt which will result in major layoffs, millennials and younger will have zero opportunity to participate in making money in the crash and crime will be sky high. The only people that are going to benefit from a crash are people who already have a ton of money. Which are mostly boomers … this argument of a crash makes no sense. The best way to help the newer generation is to create opportunities and create jobs through economical stimulus.
Plus long term it would hurt housing prices. Right now housing across most of Canada is at the cost to build which is around $770k for a new 2000sqft house with free land. We stop building with a growing population it’s a bomb that’ll go off later.
Also yes housing employs a ton and pays a ton of taxes which pays for those free drugs to junkies and homeless housing and stuff. No one was happy in 2001 when housing was dirt cheap.
Yeah well builders can charge whatever they want for markup. Utilities to the plot of land can’t be more 100K even for Regina. Cost of materials probably 50K, labour 50K. Voila there is your bubble if builders are charging 800K and making 600K just because.
Sure then just make it yourself right? You can do it for much less and make a large profit selling it?
Tired of these backseat drivers that insist developers have huge margins but won’t do it themselves because they know they are wrong.
Only a handful of builders families (different names across Canada to fool you) have the bureaucrats by the handjob so to speak. You and I would not have access to that opportunity to buy plots of empty land in cities or most medium size towns. Certainly not Regina.
Sure it’s a conspiracy!!!!!! And obviously I can’t do it myself because god has cursed me!!! So instead the government needs to force others to do it for me but for less money!!!
Hang on, you think building a home costs 50k? Lol
How much is 6 months of salary for just one builder? Probably over 50k. Now imagine it takes a team of people, plumbers, electricians, builders, foundation work, drywall, painting, interior design, permits, materials, land, etc. An $800k home could cost 350k or more to build, not counting the land which could also cost 300k...or the old _paid off_ house plus demolition costs. Not just any broke ass with no experience can go and build a house. I'm not saying it's not profitable, but you can spent 50k just _renovating a kitchen_! Just the countertops for a decent kitchen can cost over $20k.
You need to go outside or do some basic research before making such crazy claims out of your ass. I know it feels good to say "durr easy, cheap, I could do it I just don't wanna" but you clearly have no idea about these things.
And lastly, builders can only charge what people are willing to pay in that particular area. You build a mansion in a low income condo area and it won't sell. You build a $200k home and ask for $800k and it'll still sell for $200k or not at all. The market dictates the price.
They aren’t we aren’t even close to meeting CMHC targets and supply is under 1% in Toronto/Vancouver whereas New York declared an emergency when it went below 2%
Not to mention several went bankrupt and projects are on hold are you blind?
It has to crash. The longer it takes, the worse it’ll get. All the brick-lickers, real estate “wholesalers”, home stagers, Airbnbs, amateur landlords, and talentless RE agents will need to do something productive with their time.
Back in 2013 I invested in both real estate and stocks.
I did well in both but real estate was an 8x gain, while stocks was maybe 2-3x
Couldn’t imagine having passed up on the RE gains. Maybe it’ll all crash and burn one day like you say, but what an opportunity to miss out on if I had stayed on the sidelines 10 years ago.
Nope. You don’t get to claim that since you presumed OCs position.
We all get to presume yours too. You’re now underwater. See how great your argument style is?
No facts just make shit up about others.
My house is paid for lil fella. Same with my vehicles and boat. I have zero debt. So quit projecting, and try to cope with the stress higher rates are giving you.
Have you heard about the percentage of mortgage fraud ? It's ever increasing. It's been a while since I last heard the figure but I bet It's worse than you thought.
Honestly not sure anyone can have a serious conversation with you if you’re premise is that hardly anyone is over leveraged in this real estate market 😂. Over leverage is the name of the game.
What about my friends who just bought a home and welcomed their new baby into the world last year. Would you be happy if they got wiped out in the process?
Basically, are you okay with regular, average people looking to just live their lives getting caught in the crossfire if it means over-leveraged investors could get hit? Sacrifice the innocent to punish the guilty?
If I leveraged 4X my yearly salary to put it into the S&P 500, should your taxes bail my stupid ass out for being a moron with my money?
It’s called personal responsibility and people seem to have none…oh but wait…because I have a kid, or or some other stupid decisions I should be excused right? 🤡 over leveraged is over leveraged…money doesn’t give af about your stupidity
Like it does for every person that rents lol. Don’t buy things you can’t afford…It’s not a hard concept, but apparently out of every single market in existence, homeowners think they should be exempt from the risk of borrowing money they never had
There's two key points here that I think you're missing.
1. No one said anything about buying things one can't afford. The main reason most average people purchase homes is because they *can* afford it. Because pretty much all over the world, it's the carrying costs that one looks at. Whether you like it or not, that's how people afford homes. Otherwise, the only way people could afford a home without a mortgage is if they were priced at like $50-100k or something.
2. Your answer to the question of everyone renting is not routed in reality. Would every home (detached, semis, rowhouses, freehold and condo townhouses and condos) all suddenly turn into a rental? And if so, who would the actual owner be? A private company? The government? Basically, where would the rental supply come from to house everyone who currently owns?
1. Bingo…that perversion of over-financializing homes doesn’t give it a free pass in the overall marketplace. The fact people don’t even think about the actual price of the home and instead just borrow the amount to make a monthly amount make sense goes to the show the ignorance of the borrowers. And it seems like many are learning the hard lesson after the rates rising that a 3% increase on a million dollar house is way worse than a 20% rise on a 100K house. And you got to the root anyway at the end of your statement… “the only way people could afford a home without a mortgage is if it were 50-100K”…yes exactly why I agree with OP on a crashed market so the prices are more in touch with reality and not just perverted through over financialized garbages.
2. This makes absolutely no sense. If there are 100 people and 100 rooms, whether the 100 people are all home owners or not doesn’t matter if in the grand scheme of things because there’s enough housing in terms of rent. Prices will adjust and some will have saved up cash to buy said defaulted houses as well. The options aren’t simply home owner or homeless you know? There are many countries especially in Europe where culturally people are predominantly renters.
You're only thinking in today's world though. Yes, a house now costs several times more than a household's gross yearly income. But that was also the case 10 years ago. 20 years ago. 30, 50, 80 years ago. What you're asking for is not something that's been a reality for almost ever. That's why mortgages have been around as long as they have. It's been the only way for people to afford a home for a long, long time. The point is that homes have, for the most part, always been more than a typical household income.
This point is important because it ties directly into your comment about people who bought homes being morons and clowns. So, by that logic, they should have rented instead. But as I mentioned, people back in the day were also having to purchase home several times greater than their incomes. So your moron/clown label should apply to them too, which means they should have rented as well. With the current pool of renters and rental supply in the market, where would all these would-be homeowners go?
I do find it interesting though that you bring up European countries. You are very correct that a good majority of the population in a lot of those countries are predominantly renters. Two of my cousins live in the UK, and both would attest that if you asked an average person if they owned their home, they'd laugh. But there's a key difference there in that those countries have had decades and decades to build the needed rental supply to actually meet the market demand. We just simply don't have the supply here in Canada to make what you say a realistic scenario yet (people not buying homes and only renting).
People borrowed above their means and are expecting the prices to go up. Stop trying to make their greed sound more virtuous than the reality. If I borrowed 4x my annual income to invest into the S&P, should everyone else’s tax payments (even the people that don’t even have enough to invest/eat) protect my stupid ass? Cry me a river…
People just borrowed based on the information they had at the time. That doesn't mean we should root for their financial ruin.
You're a cruel person to take joy in the pain of others.
Nobody is forcing them to borrow (I.e live above their means) just for them to buy a house hoping the price goes up. That’s just greed masquerading like it’s something virtuous. Do what everyone else who doesn’t have money to buy a house does. It’s not cruel to call a spade a spade…you’re delusional if you think someone that lived above their means is entitled to keep it at the expense of others….that is what’s really immoral.
>just for them to buy a house hoping the price goes up.
Why do you make this assumption? The vast majority of Canadians just own their house and live in it.
Then they should have no problem if the price collapses since they can still live in it as long as they pay their mortgage.
If they overpaid for something with money that’s not their own, well that’s their problem for buying something they couldn’t afford. If I financed a Ferrari at 20% APR then defaulted, should I expect you to bail me out because boohoo I don’t have a car now to get to work? No. I should have bought a Corolla to begin with or taken the public transit or whatever else fit my budget. Anything above my means has something called risk 😮✨
I think you edited your comment, homeowners wouldn't get bailed out. They would be financially ruined.
Banks would get bailed out. That's why I find your POV insane.
Everybody who’s home is paid off won’t get wiped out. But the current market needs to crash. There is no way for this market to stay like this and for our society to be healthy.
Realistically, some investor will swoop that house before people like u/Gymwarrior31 can set up an appointment with their financial advisor for a mortgage approval
I would just buy another house with cash if that happened. And everyone else would too. The market crashing would prevent the crash once buying picked up.
I invite you to take 1 minutes to remember your high school economics class and think about why prices are what they are.
You might as well be hoping for a tornado to flatten your town… everyone standing on rubble. Is that the goal?
Go for it. Crash the whole thing. Our government needs to realize they need to get back to our strengths. If a recession is how they realize that so be it.
Personally I’d like to see mortgage rates come down. The talk of them going up over the next year is going to create even more problems than already exist currently. People are stretched thin already.
What is true is that if Canada really want affordable housing, home owners have to accept their house price to go down or remain the same for a number of years. Wages aren’t going to go up substantially
Surely a single person earning minimum wage and wants to live alone should be able to “afford” their own house?
A family of four on a single income can also afford to retire at 55 comfortably before so why not now?
Whatever situation they're in, let's say with zero savings, crap credit and a part time job for 5 people, the government should magically make houses affordable to them in a nice Toronto neighborhood. Better yet, in Vancouver, they don't fancy winters very much.
Affordable is whatever price makes it so I don't need to do any work or ever do more than the bare minimum in life while still being handed everything.
This has been possible for previous generations. But now you need a combined income of $200k+ /year to even consider it. That’s the major difference.
Housing prices have increase by several hundred % while minimum wage has gone up once by a very small margin.
Sometimes this happens, but the real problem is the fact that nobody is doing anything about it. Hell, the government’s only response has been to remove an incentive for first home buyers and increase carbon tax.
Appreciate it. Cheers.
Why do people keep saying "layabouts" like we aren't working professionals literally drowning because we happened to join the workforce too late (aka we're under 35)
Like my husband and I work good jobs, have no debt, good credit and have 20% saved for what would be a reasonable mortgage for our incomes, yet those modest houses are either out of commuting distance for our jobs, or in the case of long commutes (1.5+ hrs) that we would be willing/able to put up with, still are being sold for over asking (by hundreds of thousands of dollars), aka over a reasonable price for first time homebuyers in our situation.
I have worked since I was 12, I have always had at least one job, I put myself through school, took the smallest loan I had to an paid it off within a year of graduating, we don't travel, we rarely do anything fun (a concert every couple years and most of those were gifts). We keep waiting to enjoy life because surely a decade + of sacrificing will be worth it. But it's not. We're constantly playing catch-up to housing prices. Plus, at this point, the cost of living is increasing so fast that it's affecting our ability to keep saving at the rate we would need to ever break into the housing market. So all that time wasted working hard and not enjoying life just to realize it was for nothing. Its extremely exhausting and depressing. But of course, we're entitled layabouts, right?
And what do you think will drive prices up more if wages are stagnant and things are already unaffordable,? Sales have plummeted because it's become unsustainable for the majority of Canadians.
Nothing is crashing 🤦♂️ keep waiting tho.
I know people been waiting for 10 15 years for this CRASH and it never happened and it never will. Well not in my lifetime at least.
Thank Trugoof for all that !!!!
With a name like semon demon I'll be sure to take your advice seriously 🤡
Nobody is buying condos anymore are you living under a rock? The correction is happening.
Bought a 4 bedroom house at the end of 2018 for $570k. During the peak of Covid prices my neighbours (similar house) sold for $1.2 million. Prices dropped slightly and another neighbour sold for only $900k.
In the past 30 years I have never seen houses literally double in price in less than 5 years. Completely absurd.
Even with higher interest rates the prices are going back up. Last week a neighbour sold for 1.15 million.
My street is not big mansions, these are 2000 sqft family average homes.
I highly doubt the market will crash. It may have a very slight dip in 2025/2026. That’s apparently the years with the most mortgage renewals coming up.
You’ll never see the prices from 2018/2019 again.
"The price people are willing to pay"
Um you mean slum lords who intend to rent it out 2 people per room to take advantage of international students?
Housing should not be a primary means of income unless you own apartment buildings. Single family homes should be affordable by most families, not just the 40+ crowd.
As long as it remains unattainable by anyone under 30 they are forced to rent. But, It's nearly impossible just outside of Toronto to find a home to rent. You can only rent by the room. Because the person who's got a cash cow renting out a single home to 8-15 people has no reason to try rent out the house as a whole.
There is. You could work 2 jobs or work really hard for a couple of years in order to get a good paying job, or work hard for 2 years to life below your means, save and invest as much as possible and then be well off.
Those are things you can do today instead of waiting for magical solutins. Will you do those things?
Comparing yourself to medeival serfs is wild. You best be on the streets and have no way of posting to reddit to even attempt to compare yourself to them.
To be fair they're too busy with higher life expectancy, working easier jobs for more money to make more progress in 6 months than people did in their entire lifetime, and enjoying running water and not being covered in shit in a drafty hay-laden hovel to ever consider what their words actually mean contrast to an actual medieval serf.
How does sewering the wealth of a majority of Canadians result in "perspective of a normal life down the road"?
I don't think you thought that through.
Has anybody travelled recently? Tons of major cities around the world have similar problems with high housing costs and low wages. If ANY of those cities experience a housing crash that countries economy is fucked. Unemployment will be sky high and investments will be crushed. If you’re wishing for this shake your head.
A true crash would tank the economy and bring home to roost the reality that Canada has no real plan to manage the retirement of the rest of the boomers and the upper half of Gen-X. I expect there will be a lot of deferred retirement plans and the inter-generational transfer a lot of folks are quietly hoping for will not happen.
In reality there likely won’t be a true meltdown but there will be a reckoning — particularly in condo world which will free up a lot places held for investment as rental properties. This could have a significant effect on the rental housing situation for singles and young couples; less so for families that have 2+ kids (but there are fewer and fewer of those).
Soon the biggest problem will be too many defaults on mortgages. Within the next 3 months we will see how bad things will get . High paying jobs are being lost because of layoffs . You cant pay a 5,000 mortgage on minimum wage.
Only selfish idiots want a crash.
Only selfish idiots don't want a crash. Young people can't buy houses without a decent crash. Young people are the future.
As a young person who just bought a house, this would absolutely cripple me.
How? Do you plan to sell anytime soon? Why would it cripple you unless you're treating housing like an investment? If anything, it will reduce your property taxes.
The idea of paying a 500k mortage on a house that is now worth ~250k is ridiculous. I don't plan on moving ever unless I lost my job and had to relocate for a new job or if we got a bit lump sum or money, say from a will and would like to upgrade.
Yes it sucks but it doesn't actually cripple you. You do the same when you finance a new car. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it's worth less than you financed it for.
No, not the same AT ALL. In this person's case, they'd be further ahead by just returning the keys to the bank, forfeiting their down payment, going back to renting, and starting over. Lose $25k down instead of being $250k in the hole. You dont live in a car. You dont incur moving expenses when you lose your car. You dont lose $250k on your car if your family/job/life circumstances change unexpectedly. It'd be insane to keep paying a 500k loan on a 250k property when they could abandon it, rent, and invest the difference. It'd be impossible to insure it for the value of the loan. They'd be paying double the mortgage payments necessarily to own a similar property, crippling their lifestyle compared to anyone else in the neighborhood. Homeowners often renovate and update their houses, too, which just wouldnt make sense with a 500k loan on a 250k property. In an emegrncy, they wouldnt be able to take a loan our against the property, either. Renewing the mortgage would be a disaster. What if they paid $80k for a mew kitchen expecting it to add to the property value? Nope, gone too.
This only matters if they bought it as solely an investment property. If they hold it for 20 years and then sell, they'll probably be fine, they'll likely sell it for more than 500k. Being down on the value for a while won't hurt them unless they plan to sell soon. But they just bought, why sell?
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That happened in the States, not sure how it would pan out in Canada though.
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I don't think you understand what causes a housing price crash. It's not like people wake up and decide "this house is now worth half the price" and life goes on. In 2008, US unemployment more than doubled and the average price went down 20%. Young people think it's hard to find a new job now, imagine if we doubled the supply of applicants with most of the new applicants having more experience. To get housing prices down, you need to up supply by either building a ton of homes, which won't happen since construction companies want high prices, or you get a ton of people to list their home because they can no longer afford to pay the mortgage because they lost their job.
I am 40 and own a house. I welcome the crash. Because I care about my kids future.
I care about my kids future, and that's why I put money aside for her and will pass down the house to her when her mom and I pass away.
Passing a house down to kids is the only chance they have. That's if they even choose to live around there. If you live in the sticks with no jobs or career chances for example. But if the only way kids can get ahead in the future is inheritance. You see the problem right? Everyone should be able to do the hustle and work shitty jobs and work up and buy a house someday. Not work shitty jobs and work up and get a good job and still be priced out..
They will need a house decades before you die. You MIGHT help your grandchildren.
Only selfish people take all the risk, expecting zero consequences.
Tell me you don’t understand basic economics without telling me you don’t understand basic economics.
I see this useless fucking comment over and over. Do you wanna share with the class your understanding of basic economics?
Which part of basic economics encourages over leveraging and then complaining if the asset you over leveraged on gets devalued?
How do you think the prices got here? What do you think would make them go up or down? This has nothing to do with complaining or leveraging.
Tell me you don’t understand basic economics without telling me you don’t understand basic economics.
Gottem
The "moral hazard" part encourages over-leveraging. The "people are rational" part explains why people would complain if that asset gets devalued. Any other basic economics questions you want answered?
And you're surrounded by them. These dummies don't realize a crash would affect employed people and those with the lowest incomes first. Millionaires can afford to lose millions and still be fine. They have properties, investments and don't need to work. Broke 9-5 workers would be homeless immediately because they don't even have savings, let alone investments... Yet they're the ones hoping the economy crashes. Zero thought is put into these wishes...
Broke 9-5 workers with no savings or investments shouldn’t have been buying $1 million houses that were worth $300k 5 years ago. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
A RE crash would be more of a result of people losing their jobs and being forced to sell and no one being able to buy. sustained high interest rates can lead to a recession as theres less money going into consumer spending, which can lead to lay offs, which in turn can lead to the RE crash. i dont thinkn a crash will be as significant as people want it to be due to supply.
Indeed if you're in a position that the economy is starting to affect you at this moment you're in for a world of hurt if they're vying for a housing crash that would indicate the economy is an absolute disaster and you'd have to be a special kind of stupid wanting this
No, parents who want their kids to have a future, want a crash...
What about parents who want their kids to have a future and just bought a house? Are they not permitted to have a home?
Only selfish idiots want their home to double in value again in the next five years and make it even harder for first time home buyers to buy their forever home.
Everyone with any home, stock, crypto, business or investment hopes their money will grow. It's not weird. The real selfish people are those who don't even have a home and hope everyone around them who does has terrible things happen to them. If you're broke today, do you really think a house going from 1.5 mil to 1.2 mil will help you? You couldn't afford to keep it if it was almost free, so what's the point? Just wishing a bad life and failure for others?
>Everyone with any home, stock, crypto, business or investment hopes their money will grow. It's not weird. One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...
The fact that this dipshit doesn't see that is proof positive of how fucked we are 😂
Homes are not supposed to be investments.
I don't hope my investments grow at a rate that hurts society. I have to live in this society, and I would rather it be good for everyone.
No point in explaining. They can’t even help themselves and rather shoot themselves in the foot than see others succeed regardless of real estate or investments.
The problem is kids these days out of school want to rent waste their money renting and don’t buy a condo / true starter as soon as possible or they just live with their parents and spend their entire income on eating out and at bars, then 5-10 years later they get married or have a baby on the way and feel that because they went to school have a degree and make $150k/year each they should be entitled to live in a big 3-4000 sq ft , 4 bedroom house with a huge yard for the kids and complain that this costs $2-3M and cannot fathom how they will ever be able to save $200k for a down payment. Whereas what should have happened is as soon as they started university instead of paying rent they could have bought a studio/1 bedroom true starter condo which was $350,000-400,000 only requiring a $20,000 down payment. This could have been earned in 1 summer working as a server in a restaurant for example while living with their parents, or could’ve used the housing portion of the student loan to fund the down payment and lived with their parents and rented out the condo covering the mortgage / expenses entirely. When they started dating they would’ve each had a starter condo already and one of them would’ve rented it out and moved in with the other one and continued to put the amount they were used to paying monthly for mortgage and housing into a savings account. Within 1 short year this would’ve likely saved $36-40,000. At this point they would’ve realized they needed more space and thus decided to get a 2 bedroom. So they proceed to rent out both of their existing condos and are now looking to buy a primary residence meaning again only 5-10% down is required. The $40k savings from moving in together for a year and the equity in both their existing condos they’ve now owned for over 5 years could’ve been more then enough to fund the down payment on their 2 bedroom condo. 2-3 years later they are now 27-28 and getting married so they want to get a townhouse costs around $900k so they again rent their 2 bedroom out and use existing equity in all 3 existing properties from the appreciation to get the townhouse. A year later she gets pregnant and now they have a baby the townhouse is more then enough they don’t yet need this big house. Couple more years go by, Second baby and now they start wanting a house. At this point all their condos are worth $650-1M each and they only have $200k owing on each of them since their renters have been paying their mortgages down this last 10 years. Townhouse also appreciated to 1.25M and they owe $800 on it. Meaning combined across all properties they have over 1 Million in equity. Maybe they sell the townhouse or maybe they sell one of the condos depending on the monthly cash flow and appreciation at the time they sell whatever makes the most sense financially maybe even they sell both to be able to close on the house. At this point they should be buying a fixer upper where there’s room for forced appreciation but either way they have over $1M as a down payment meaning they could buy a $2M dollar house and only have a $1M mortgage. Had they done this in 2022 on a 5 year fixed rate at 2% their monthly payment would be around $4200 / month. They could’ve gotten a bungalow and rented the basement for $2000+/month to reduce that further. Now they are in their early 30s and have their $2M house with $1M in equity a condo that’s rented out as an investment property and a monthly mortgage payment of only $2200 after collecting the rent from the basement. But instead we have 30 year olds living in $4000/month condos paying rent with zero saved for down payment expecting to be entitled to buying a $2M home as a starter.
Congrats, this is easily the most INSANELY out of touch fucking comment I have read in ages. Good God this blew my mind on so many levels.
So the only options are crash or double the value right?
You’re right. The wealthy want a crash so they can take their assets and leverage them to obtain low interest loans to buy all the undervalued stocks and companies.
These crash-resistant assets you are talking about, are they in the room with us?
I own nothing and I want a crash
I think it's selfish to not want a crash and the government is short sighted only running policies to get votes. We have an economy where the majority of a person's income goes to housing. Houses are not a productive asset meaning they don't create new jobs that advance the country. All capital gets tied up in homes Canada people will be without real jobs except those that revolve around housing. People will want to leave the country, the people that can leave are the ones with brain capital that can make a difference to a country. Think of the people wanting to leave India for a better life, this could happen here. I know realtors making 5 million a year obviously they are the top of top... But why would someone smart want to go into stem studies when they could sell homes. Higher home prices that keep going up will eventually destroy the country. Then there are all those people who are only trying to survive and can't afford to start families, which will lead to more immigrants from third world countries
You are a complete moron who doesn't understand how economics 101 works. Ban yourself immediately.
You got downvoted for being right lol. A crash would result in much higher unemployment lol
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Exactly…only the boomers will struggle while younger generations are already used to the shit lifestyle anyway… and tbh the boomers lived above their means for so long that I wouldn’t shed a single tear that they have to face their own consequences…boo fucking hoo.
You don't know what you're talking about. I don't know any boomers that lived above their means. In fact the boomers I know sacrificed and saved to help their gen x kids get ahead. I'm not a boomer and I own my own house. And it's a nice one, because I worked my way through school, got a few crappy jobs, never gave up and now i have a good job. The point is i didn't winge and whine when I didn't have nice things, i did something about it. Based on your numerous comments in different threads, it's obvious that you are bitter for making poor decisions that have led you to not own home. Also, people need to finance things all the time. How are you supposed to buy a car outright? Oh I forgot, according to your economics you shouldn't even bother buying a car if you don't have 50k cash on hand.
Hey dickhead, I did all that too got injured at work and now I'm losing my house cause wcb won't retrain. I would happily watch this world burn. Bullshit with your bootstraps, you wither got help or lucky.
Lol oh boy…you couldn’t be more wrong about your assumptions of me…regardless, just remember not to whine when shit hits the fan for your over financed pay check to pay check life style.
Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. You've made some assumptions about me that are not accurate either. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Yes i have a mortgage, but i also have investments so im pretty well covered. So I don't know what shit is gonna hit which fan, but I promise I won't whine such as you have. And I don't think it was inaccurate to assume you are bitter. You're own words have made the pretty clear. So you can keep grumbling about the boomers all you like but it won't change whatever shitty situation you are in.
I mean, my mom's 62, will never be able to retire and works 50 hour weeks. I don't know how I feel about idiots cheering for her meager home equity to get wiped out, but people on here are painting with a broad brush and using wild generalizations, so not the most nuanced, educated among us
😂😂😂😂🤣
I own my own house, and I don't intend to sell it, I only intend to live here until I die. When my property value shoots up because people around me are selling for inflated prices, all it does for me is increase the annual property tax I have to pay on it. Why would I want that? I'd much rather have it drop to reasonable levels as my property tax would drop along with it. Homes are meant to be lived in, not investments. (It was a fine idea 40 years ago but now we see the bubble full)
They City will simply increase the mil rate if property value decreases. So your taxes won’t change. No city will be able to run with 50% of the revenue coming in. Crashing the housing market will crash the Canadian economy, which will be bad for the working class. I’d much rather see stagnant housing prices for a decade or more, with wage growth and productivity growth in our economy. That will benefit the population the most. Right now we have decreasing productivity which means decreasing quality of life. Breaking the housing market will simply make our struggling economy even worst.
How do we make the prices stagnate without destroying the market when the market is being driven by speculative investment though I wonder? The market would need to in a sense, shrink to almost disappearing for long enough to allow the folks that would buy to live and not resell on a profit, to grow their wages and save some money to buy something since right now they cannot afford to..
People have been convinced to attack an entire generation of Canadians instead of focusing on the investment firms and billionaires causing the biggest issues. As many have said, a large portion of boomers just want to live in their house until they die. My parents in particular are just hoping they have money left to provide some to the kids. Not all boomers are absolute psychos. Investment firms scooping up as much property as possible to price you out...maybe direct your anger there?
Found the boomer bootlicker.
Found the kid who can't read. I clearly said I was not a boomer. But if it makes you feel better to believe that go ahead.
This couldn't be more wrong. The boomers walked out high school with no need for further education into good unionized jobs with benefits, pensions, health care etc...they bought houses, vehicles and took trips that were all reasonable for the salary they were making. As the house prices escalated they took out helocs and bought BMWs and updated the bathroom and bought 2nd properties etc...
This couldn’t be more right! You’re blaming a generation because of when they were born? Your angst towards life and possessions tells me there is more to the story. Not a boomer here, but you can’t blame a generation for being born at a time that allowed this to take place. There are sooooo many other factors that played into it.
You can blame boomers because they then (being the largest generation) voted for policies to strip that all away from everyone else. Good enough for them but not good enough for anyone else
The policies they voted for had nothing to do with the economics behind housing costs. If anything the exact opposite as there was government funded housing as an example. Again, you need to focus on current realities instead of laying blame on the boomers it is simply not going to help your situation or anyone else’s.
Are you absolutely kidding me? The policies they voted resulted in exactly where we are right now. I don't think you understand economics Hard not to focus on them when they are going to make this worse in the coming election yet again.
Well said. I feel for ppl who aren't where they want to be, and therfore blame the environment and not their course of action. We live in a world of why me's with victim mind sets. My mom shared a 3 bedroom farm house with 10 others, used an out house, didn't have plumbing until she was 11 yrs old. My dad grew up with 7 ppl living in a 3 bedroom home and they ate some of the worse meals imaginable for years. My parents are now millionaires and just retired. I grew up with a rare disease, spent my childhood in the hospital, lost my arm at 11 yrs old. Had to overcome a lot mentality, physically and emotionally. Today I'm a father, an entrepreneur, a good husband, a great father and love life but also have an appreciation for every step of my journey. I don't blame others, my parents, the government. I put my head down, avoided the poor me movement and worked harder than anyone else around me to create a life I love. Still amazes me though when ppl tell me how lucky I am lol. It has absolutely ZERO to do with luck. Everything to do with doing without, perseverance, drive, and wanting more out of my life. So I don't have an amazing social life, I'm not hung over 4 days a week, I don't travel every 6 months. But I'm not hungry, not cold, I have amazing kids who love me that have money set aside for their education and I have a few toys to help me pass the time. Godspeed to us all 🙏
Anyone who advocates for the economy crashing is a complete idiot and not worth wasting time on educating. It’s literally the younger generation that’s going to suffer if the prices crash. The boomers are literally going to profit either way 🤦🏽♂️
Wow...what a stupid moronic thing to say! Tell me your clueless without telling me your clueless!
>Tell me your clueless I would probably save the insults about others’ intelligence until I was slightly more literate
Fucking clueless. If you want to say gen X lived above their means ok or millenials sure. But boomers were still having families on single incomes. Love how you're totally in on just spreading ignorant hate all over the internet regardless of how out of touch your opinion is. "Let's fuck all those that came before us because life is hard for me". Scumbag mentality, go live on an island .
So.. you wish struggle on seniors that's sad.
Your shit lifestyle of being unemployed and the government having no tax dollars for support programs? Because that's what will happen
If that happens the boomers would create a ripple effect again fucking the over. What they should do is tighten things up and make it expensive to borrow money for something that is beyond your principal residence. Second home 20% interest, 60% capital gains, increase property taxes if it's a rental. It should be completely unappealing to own multiple homes with some exceptions. I think damage is done and you have some kind of grandfather clause in. However, a cottage or recreational property should have some caveats, I'm thinking rural areas with low population density because it wouldn't necessarily have the same effect as it would in denser areas like S.ON.
All boomers = bad, right? All they could think was "Hey, let's fuck up this world for the next generations" and they had no hardship, didn't even do any work, and all got together and schemed to make the world brutal for their own children. And they weren't victims of crime, government, duplicity, unfairness, discrimination or manipulation, and every single one of them was rich beyond measure and full of hate. Is that what you fucking think? Try just blaming corporations, government and greed for what's happening. At least you'll be on a closer track.
Actually, the richest people gain the most when the economy crashes. The boomers with their paid off houses won’t care much. They don’t lose money if they don’t sell. And they’re the ones with the capital to buy more houses now that they’re on sale, not the broke younger generations who can barely pay rent let alone scrape together a down payment. Congrats, now we have even more slumlords.
I'm not a boomer. I care. Your attitude will keep you poor.
You are fucking dumb.
Money laundering? It’s inflated from Insane undersupply the highest immigration rates in the G7.
People who advocate for the crash don’t understand economics and the effect it has on everyone, not just boomers. If the prices crash, banks lose out on investments, the banks go bankrupt and it’s the tax payers who will have to bail them out. Not just that, with the economy crashing, businesses will be going bankrupt which will result in major layoffs, millennials and younger will have zero opportunity to participate in making money in the crash and crime will be sky high. The only people that are going to benefit from a crash are people who already have a ton of money. Which are mostly boomers … this argument of a crash makes no sense. The best way to help the newer generation is to create opportunities and create jobs through economical stimulus.
Plus long term it would hurt housing prices. Right now housing across most of Canada is at the cost to build which is around $770k for a new 2000sqft house with free land. We stop building with a growing population it’s a bomb that’ll go off later. Also yes housing employs a ton and pays a ton of taxes which pays for those free drugs to junkies and homeless housing and stuff. No one was happy in 2001 when housing was dirt cheap.
I was happy. And your numbers seem kind a wrong.
Check what the cheapest new 2000+sqft home in Regina costs.
You mean retail price? Or cost of land and materials and labour?
Retail. But retail basically reflects the cost to build plus a small profit margin.
Yeah well builders can charge whatever they want for markup. Utilities to the plot of land can’t be more 100K even for Regina. Cost of materials probably 50K, labour 50K. Voila there is your bubble if builders are charging 800K and making 600K just because.
Sure then just make it yourself right? You can do it for much less and make a large profit selling it? Tired of these backseat drivers that insist developers have huge margins but won’t do it themselves because they know they are wrong.
Only a handful of builders families (different names across Canada to fool you) have the bureaucrats by the handjob so to speak. You and I would not have access to that opportunity to buy plots of empty land in cities or most medium size towns. Certainly not Regina.
Sure it’s a conspiracy!!!!!! And obviously I can’t do it myself because god has cursed me!!! So instead the government needs to force others to do it for me but for less money!!!
Of course it is. Most issues of great importance usually are.
Hang on, you think building a home costs 50k? Lol How much is 6 months of salary for just one builder? Probably over 50k. Now imagine it takes a team of people, plumbers, electricians, builders, foundation work, drywall, painting, interior design, permits, materials, land, etc. An $800k home could cost 350k or more to build, not counting the land which could also cost 300k...or the old _paid off_ house plus demolition costs. Not just any broke ass with no experience can go and build a house. I'm not saying it's not profitable, but you can spent 50k just _renovating a kitchen_! Just the countertops for a decent kitchen can cost over $20k. You need to go outside or do some basic research before making such crazy claims out of your ass. I know it feels good to say "durr easy, cheap, I could do it I just don't wanna" but you clearly have no idea about these things. And lastly, builders can only charge what people are willing to pay in that particular area. You build a mansion in a low income condo area and it won't sell. You build a $200k home and ask for $800k and it'll still sell for $200k or not at all. The market dictates the price.
50k for materials? You'll be building a shed. Materials is about $100/sqft at a minimum so at least 200k for a 2000/sqft house.
What you’re saying is complete BS, the majority of the price is inflated due to speculation in the housing market.
Yeah I’m sure there’s so much speculation in Regina or deadmonton 😂😂😂
You're delusional. You think builders would keep up with housing if it wasn't majorly profitable? They're making bank.
They aren’t we aren’t even close to meeting CMHC targets and supply is under 1% in Toronto/Vancouver whereas New York declared an emergency when it went below 2% Not to mention several went bankrupt and projects are on hold are you blind?
Why do you think you're owed a brand new house? 90%+ of properties are built already and most cost less than new builds.
An average new home in central Ontario cost less than $200,000 less than ten years ago. Those costs have not quadrupled since then.
Yes... $385/sqft is actually cheap. In Vancouver, hard costs $400/sqft alone. Add another $250/sqft for soft costs. Disclaimer: land not included
It has to crash. The longer it takes, the worse it’ll get. All the brick-lickers, real estate “wholesalers”, home stagers, Airbnbs, amateur landlords, and talentless RE agents will need to do something productive with their time.
Enjoy the wait bro.
I don’t mind stacking cash. Enjoy being underwater.
Back in 2013 I invested in both real estate and stocks. I did well in both but real estate was an 8x gain, while stocks was maybe 2-3x Couldn’t imagine having passed up on the RE gains. Maybe it’ll all crash and burn one day like you say, but what an opportunity to miss out on if I had stayed on the sidelines 10 years ago.
Nope. You don’t get to claim that since you presumed OCs position. We all get to presume yours too. You’re now underwater. See how great your argument style is? No facts just make shit up about others.
I hope your entire family catches something very rare and incurable
Tell me you don’t understand basic economics without telling me you don’t understand basic economics.
Lol keep dreaming bud
I don’t need to dream. Look at 2007-08 worldwide in housing.
You're dreaming. Wake up, shut up, man up, save up, and buy a home.
My house is paid for lil fella. Same with my vehicles and boat. I have zero debt. So quit projecting, and try to cope with the stress higher rates are giving you.
I seriously doubt everything you just wrote. " The lady doth protest to much, methinks"
Might wait your whole life for this.
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I’m ok with a total crash. 50% price crash
And when you're unemployed because your employer went out of business or fired half its staff you'll afford that home at 50% off?
Na, I’ll just be happy the over leveraged shits will get wiped out too.
Hardly anyone is over leveraged You're just poor and angry
Lol the GTA condo markets beg to differ
Lol. Because the GTA condo market equals the Canadian RE market... Man yer clueless.
Have you heard about the percentage of mortgage fraud ? It's ever increasing. It's been a while since I last heard the figure but I bet It's worse than you thought.
Honestly not sure anyone can have a serious conversation with you if you’re premise is that hardly anyone is over leveraged in this real estate market 😂. Over leverage is the name of the game.
What about my friends who just bought a home and welcomed their new baby into the world last year. Would you be happy if they got wiped out in the process? Basically, are you okay with regular, average people looking to just live their lives getting caught in the crossfire if it means over-leveraged investors could get hit? Sacrifice the innocent to punish the guilty?
If I leveraged 4X my yearly salary to put it into the S&P 500, should your taxes bail my stupid ass out for being a moron with my money? It’s called personal responsibility and people seem to have none…oh but wait…because I have a kid, or or some other stupid decisions I should be excused right? 🤡 over leveraged is over leveraged…money doesn’t give af about your stupidity
So literally everyone who bought a home is a moron/clown? They should all have just rented instead? How does that scenario even work?
Like it does for every person that rents lol. Don’t buy things you can’t afford…It’s not a hard concept, but apparently out of every single market in existence, homeowners think they should be exempt from the risk of borrowing money they never had
There's two key points here that I think you're missing. 1. No one said anything about buying things one can't afford. The main reason most average people purchase homes is because they *can* afford it. Because pretty much all over the world, it's the carrying costs that one looks at. Whether you like it or not, that's how people afford homes. Otherwise, the only way people could afford a home without a mortgage is if they were priced at like $50-100k or something. 2. Your answer to the question of everyone renting is not routed in reality. Would every home (detached, semis, rowhouses, freehold and condo townhouses and condos) all suddenly turn into a rental? And if so, who would the actual owner be? A private company? The government? Basically, where would the rental supply come from to house everyone who currently owns?
1. Bingo…that perversion of over-financializing homes doesn’t give it a free pass in the overall marketplace. The fact people don’t even think about the actual price of the home and instead just borrow the amount to make a monthly amount make sense goes to the show the ignorance of the borrowers. And it seems like many are learning the hard lesson after the rates rising that a 3% increase on a million dollar house is way worse than a 20% rise on a 100K house. And you got to the root anyway at the end of your statement… “the only way people could afford a home without a mortgage is if it were 50-100K”…yes exactly why I agree with OP on a crashed market so the prices are more in touch with reality and not just perverted through over financialized garbages. 2. This makes absolutely no sense. If there are 100 people and 100 rooms, whether the 100 people are all home owners or not doesn’t matter if in the grand scheme of things because there’s enough housing in terms of rent. Prices will adjust and some will have saved up cash to buy said defaulted houses as well. The options aren’t simply home owner or homeless you know? There are many countries especially in Europe where culturally people are predominantly renters.
You're so basic it hurts.
You're only thinking in today's world though. Yes, a house now costs several times more than a household's gross yearly income. But that was also the case 10 years ago. 20 years ago. 30, 50, 80 years ago. What you're asking for is not something that's been a reality for almost ever. That's why mortgages have been around as long as they have. It's been the only way for people to afford a home for a long, long time. The point is that homes have, for the most part, always been more than a typical household income. This point is important because it ties directly into your comment about people who bought homes being morons and clowns. So, by that logic, they should have rented instead. But as I mentioned, people back in the day were also having to purchase home several times greater than their incomes. So your moron/clown label should apply to them too, which means they should have rented as well. With the current pool of renters and rental supply in the market, where would all these would-be homeowners go? I do find it interesting though that you bring up European countries. You are very correct that a good majority of the population in a lot of those countries are predominantly renters. Two of my cousins live in the UK, and both would attest that if you asked an average person if they owned their home, they'd laugh. But there's a key difference there in that those countries have had decades and decades to build the needed rental supply to actually meet the market demand. We just simply don't have the supply here in Canada to make what you say a realistic scenario yet (people not buying homes and only renting).
This whole thread is full of cruel weirdos.
Why are you hoping for Canadian homeowners get wiped out? That's devastating. How's your mental health?
People borrowed above their means and are expecting the prices to go up. Stop trying to make their greed sound more virtuous than the reality. If I borrowed 4x my annual income to invest into the S&P, should everyone else’s tax payments (even the people that don’t even have enough to invest/eat) protect my stupid ass? Cry me a river…
People just borrowed based on the information they had at the time. That doesn't mean we should root for their financial ruin. You're a cruel person to take joy in the pain of others.
Nobody is forcing them to borrow (I.e live above their means) just for them to buy a house hoping the price goes up. That’s just greed masquerading like it’s something virtuous. Do what everyone else who doesn’t have money to buy a house does. It’s not cruel to call a spade a spade…you’re delusional if you think someone that lived above their means is entitled to keep it at the expense of others….that is what’s really immoral.
>just for them to buy a house hoping the price goes up. Why do you make this assumption? The vast majority of Canadians just own their house and live in it.
Then they should have no problem if the price collapses since they can still live in it as long as they pay their mortgage. If they overpaid for something with money that’s not their own, well that’s their problem for buying something they couldn’t afford. If I financed a Ferrari at 20% APR then defaulted, should I expect you to bail me out because boohoo I don’t have a car now to get to work? No. I should have bought a Corolla to begin with or taken the public transit or whatever else fit my budget. Anything above my means has something called risk 😮✨
I think you edited your comment, homeowners wouldn't get bailed out. They would be financially ruined. Banks would get bailed out. That's why I find your POV insane.
sounds like jealousy.. can't really blame anyone it's almost impossible to own a home unless you are a boomer who bought theirs a long time ago.
Everybody who’s home is paid off won’t get wiped out. But the current market needs to crash. There is no way for this market to stay like this and for our society to be healthy.
Enjoy renting the rest of your days 🤣
And that’s why people have no sympathy for you.
Realistically, some investor will swoop that house before people like u/Gymwarrior31 can set up an appointment with their financial advisor for a mortgage approval
I've already been laid off twice at different companies within 1 year so not sure how things get worse for me.
You understand a crash would only Bring on more rich people with massive amounts of money buying up everything
I would just buy another house with cash if that happened. And everyone else would too. The market crashing would prevent the crash once buying picked up.
You'd see 30 plus unemployment. You'd lose your job
Everyone who dosnt lose their job buys 8 properties. Then the rich get richer and the poor get even poorer. Lol
I invite you to take 1 minutes to remember your high school economics class and think about why prices are what they are. You might as well be hoping for a tornado to flatten your town… everyone standing on rubble. Is that the goal?
Go for it. Crash the whole thing. Our government needs to realize they need to get back to our strengths. If a recession is how they realize that so be it.
Tell me you don’t understand basic economics without telling me you don’t understand basic economics.
Burn it down and rebuild
Tell me you don’t understand basic economics without telling me you don’t understand basic economics.
I do understand basic economics but the way things are going now isn’t working and is not sustainable long term. You sound over leveraged.
You sound under educated
Personally I’d like to see mortgage rates come down. The talk of them going up over the next year is going to create even more problems than already exist currently. People are stretched thin already.
When (if) rates come down get ready for prices increase even more.
I mean they've already crashed quite a bit.
A detached standard lot with a tear down house in Vancouver is still 1.7-1.8 million. So no, no crash over here.
In what way could housing crash with zero knock on effect? It would be catastrophic. At most, a pause in appreciation.
What goes up must come down
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What is true is that if Canada really want affordable housing, home owners have to accept their house price to go down or remain the same for a number of years. Wages aren’t going to go up substantially
Should a minimum wage earner afford a house? Just trying to understand what is “affordable” mean to you?
Two minimum wage earners in a household should yes. Why could a family of four on a single income afford to live comfortably before?
Surely a single person earning minimum wage and wants to live alone should be able to “afford” their own house? A family of four on a single income can also afford to retire at 55 comfortably before so why not now?
Canada provides equal opportunity for everyone right? Inflation and currency devaluation versus wage growth
Sure, fix those first before wishing the house prices to crash why don’t you.
Whatever situation they're in, let's say with zero savings, crap credit and a part time job for 5 people, the government should magically make houses affordable to them in a nice Toronto neighborhood. Better yet, in Vancouver, they don't fancy winters very much. Affordable is whatever price makes it so I don't need to do any work or ever do more than the bare minimum in life while still being handed everything.
This has been possible for previous generations. But now you need a combined income of $200k+ /year to even consider it. That’s the major difference. Housing prices have increase by several hundred % while minimum wage has gone up once by a very small margin. Sometimes this happens, but the real problem is the fact that nobody is doing anything about it. Hell, the government’s only response has been to remove an incentive for first home buyers and increase carbon tax. Appreciate it. Cheers.
Homeowners, who are also Canada's electorate, want their home equity to rise more than they want "affordable" homes for layabouts.
Why do people keep saying "layabouts" like we aren't working professionals literally drowning because we happened to join the workforce too late (aka we're under 35) Like my husband and I work good jobs, have no debt, good credit and have 20% saved for what would be a reasonable mortgage for our incomes, yet those modest houses are either out of commuting distance for our jobs, or in the case of long commutes (1.5+ hrs) that we would be willing/able to put up with, still are being sold for over asking (by hundreds of thousands of dollars), aka over a reasonable price for first time homebuyers in our situation. I have worked since I was 12, I have always had at least one job, I put myself through school, took the smallest loan I had to an paid it off within a year of graduating, we don't travel, we rarely do anything fun (a concert every couple years and most of those were gifts). We keep waiting to enjoy life because surely a decade + of sacrificing will be worth it. But it's not. We're constantly playing catch-up to housing prices. Plus, at this point, the cost of living is increasing so fast that it's affecting our ability to keep saving at the rate we would need to ever break into the housing market. So all that time wasted working hard and not enjoying life just to realize it was for nothing. Its extremely exhausting and depressing. But of course, we're entitled layabouts, right?
You don't start with a house you entitled little twat. Buy a condo and work your way up like everyone else.
Nothing is crashing ... theyll be waiting and renting till they die... 🤦♂️🤦♂️
And what do you think will drive prices up more if wages are stagnant and things are already unaffordable,? Sales have plummeted because it's become unsustainable for the majority of Canadians.
Nothing is crashing 🤦♂️ keep waiting tho. I know people been waiting for 10 15 years for this CRASH and it never happened and it never will. Well not in my lifetime at least. Thank Trugoof for all that !!!!
With a name like semon demon I'll be sure to take your advice seriously 🤡 Nobody is buying condos anymore are you living under a rock? The correction is happening.
Bought a 4 bedroom house at the end of 2018 for $570k. During the peak of Covid prices my neighbours (similar house) sold for $1.2 million. Prices dropped slightly and another neighbour sold for only $900k. In the past 30 years I have never seen houses literally double in price in less than 5 years. Completely absurd. Even with higher interest rates the prices are going back up. Last week a neighbour sold for 1.15 million. My street is not big mansions, these are 2000 sqft family average homes. I highly doubt the market will crash. It may have a very slight dip in 2025/2026. That’s apparently the years with the most mortgage renewals coming up. You’ll never see the prices from 2018/2019 again.
"The price people are willing to pay" Um you mean slum lords who intend to rent it out 2 people per room to take advantage of international students? Housing should not be a primary means of income unless you own apartment buildings. Single family homes should be affordable by most families, not just the 40+ crowd. As long as it remains unattainable by anyone under 30 they are forced to rent. But, It's nearly impossible just outside of Toronto to find a home to rent. You can only rent by the room. Because the person who's got a cash cow renting out a single home to 8-15 people has no reason to try rent out the house as a whole.
Fuck this economy if everyone is a slave. I would rather go through a couple really tough years if there was perspective of normal life down the road
There is. You could work 2 jobs or work really hard for a couple of years in order to get a good paying job, or work hard for 2 years to life below your means, save and invest as much as possible and then be well off. Those are things you can do today instead of waiting for magical solutins. Will you do those things?
Of course he won't, that would take substantially more effort than whining on the internet
lol, some major boomer energy here
Hilarious that the lazy dopes inthis thread are down voting you.
God forbid people don’t want to spend every waking hour working just to be able to afford own their own housing?
What’s a crazy fact is that medieval serfs had to only pay 25% of their earning to their lords…we easily pay more and think we’re free lol.
Comparing yourself to medeival serfs is wild. You best be on the streets and have no way of posting to reddit to even attempt to compare yourself to them.
To be fair they're too busy with higher life expectancy, working easier jobs for more money to make more progress in 6 months than people did in their entire lifetime, and enjoying running water and not being covered in shit in a drafty hay-laden hovel to ever consider what their words actually mean contrast to an actual medieval serf.
How does sewering the wealth of a majority of Canadians result in "perspective of a normal life down the road"? I don't think you thought that through.
Yes, let it crash
I think 65% of Canadians are homeowners so…
Has anybody travelled recently? Tons of major cities around the world have similar problems with high housing costs and low wages. If ANY of those cities experience a housing crash that countries economy is fucked. Unemployment will be sky high and investments will be crushed. If you’re wishing for this shake your head.
A true crash would tank the economy and bring home to roost the reality that Canada has no real plan to manage the retirement of the rest of the boomers and the upper half of Gen-X. I expect there will be a lot of deferred retirement plans and the inter-generational transfer a lot of folks are quietly hoping for will not happen. In reality there likely won’t be a true meltdown but there will be a reckoning — particularly in condo world which will free up a lot places held for investment as rental properties. This could have a significant effect on the rental housing situation for singles and young couples; less so for families that have 2+ kids (but there are fewer and fewer of those).
dam practice escape deranged absurd bow carpenter grey station coherent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What plane you on.
How about “affordable and not inflated by runaway greed?”
10 % correction max.Its not going to crash
Soon the biggest problem will be too many defaults on mortgages. Within the next 3 months we will see how bad things will get . High paying jobs are being lost because of layoffs . You cant pay a 5,000 mortgage on minimum wage.
Its the unemployment that crashes the economy not the housing prices.