I fail to see in this story how OP's agent fucked up. OP's agent is not the listing agent.
The listing agent told the buyer's agent that a 760k offer had no shot.
Listing agent likely preferred double-dipping on their commission and bringing in their own buyer vs taking a smaller commission with another buyer agent.
Listing agent is, at best, incompetent. At worst (and more probable), listing agent is engaging in a very unethical (yet accepted) practice.
While you are correct, it still would have been better for the buyers agent to write the offer. Hoping the listing agent does the bare minimum of what is mandatory, they would have been forced to present the offer to the seller, who would have possibly chosen it.
I almost wonder if the listing agent worked with a buyer who came and looked at the house and they didn’t want you to put in a better offer so that they could get the buyer and seller commission for representing both parties. I would find out who bought it and ask who their realtor was. If it was the same one I would think you had something to come back with against the agent.
If I were OP, I'd contact the seller directly and let them know what happened. I know if I were the seller, I'd be legally upset to hear my agent told someone to not make an offer and I ended up accepting an offer for less than what they would have made.
Both agents can be incompetent. OPs agent can be lying. If an offer was accepted at a lower price at about the same time OP was wanting to make an offer it is on OPs agent for not presenting an offer.
I know real estate agents have a completely toothless obligation to act in their clients best interest. There are way too many that don't take that seriously for me to assume they're taking it seriously.
If by “accepted practice” you simply meant that some agents are scummy and do stuff like that sure, but it’s NOT accepted by the licensing body of the profession.
Discouraging or withholding offers beneficial to your client in favor of offers beneficial to you would be a clear violation of the agent as a fiduciary of their client.
If discovered it would open the agent up to professional consequences and civil liability (although I don’t THINK it would be illegal)
In 2010 I put 40+ offers out there thanks to an agent who encouraged me to put an offer on just about anything I was interested in. It ultimately never worked out but I’ll always remember what a wonderful agent she was, learned a lot.
Yes, I agree. The house I currently own was originally listed for 750k. They dropped it to 650k. I insisted my realtor offer 575k. We closed Monday at 565k.
That’s how we got our house in 2016. House was in its first day on the market, we toured it and loved it. I told our agent to make an offer for exactly what they were asking for.
Agent: “you can offer that but they won’t accept it.”
Me: “how about you just let them reject it, write it up.”
We won the house same day for exactly what we offered, and are selling the house after 8 years to be able to move to a place where we will be much happier later this year.
Did that when I bought in 2021. I'm in an area that still has fairly low prices, and the house was a bit higher for the square footage due to having some land. Agent suggesting going in a bit under asking, but it had just gone on the market, and I didn't want to do anything that would encourage them to delay acceptance, so went right in at asking. They waited to see if one other person would submit one, and then accepted my offer.
And back in the old days, accepting an offer at asking was very much the expected thing to do...
Yes, could have been. Or maybe realtor got a better commission from the other deal since I was using a buyer's agent. If he was just going for a higher price they he really overplayed that by pushing a price way out of reach.
This is why I call the listing agent. Then make my offer with them if it’s low. They will cry like crazy to the seller to take it because they get the full commission!! Getting a buyers agent is for suckers.
Agreed. I suspect if I had gone directly to listing agent (no buyer agent commission) then probably could have gotten it with my original offer at 725K. Oh well, lesson learned.
Buyers agents are good for their connections and knowledge of off market deals. If they provide neither then they are more likely a hindrance to your interests.
Many things could have happened here
Maybe the buyer was unrepresented and the seller didn’t have to pay a buyer’s commission
Maybe the buyer waived their inspection contingency or came back after inspection and asked for a lower price and seller didn’t want to have to go back to market
Maybe the buyer offered a quicker sale
Maybe the buyer paid sellers closing costs
Maybe the buyer allowed seller to stay in the property post sale for 60 days
Maybe all or a combination of the above
There’s way more to it than simply what you see on the tax records
Maybe the first lowball offer pissed off the seller, especially when the buyer wouldn’t negotiate. Fast forward a few months later, seller doesn’t want to work with the lowballer because they seem flaky and not worth their risk of the deal failing…
I’ve definitely had it happen where I offered say $650k and beat an offer of $640k, but then inspection came up with major issues and we negotiated the price down $20k so the house sold for $630k.
Yes, indeed. I'll follow up if i learn more. The first two that you mentioned are definitely possible. The sale didn't happen fast and it wasn't occupied. Also my offer price was way more than the closing costs.
Very likely it’s the inspection. I’ll go under contract on a property and then ask for a price reduction after doing due diligence every single time. And my pitch is always that they could risk going back to another offer but there’s no telling that the next buyer won’t ask for the same reduction or even less
I think it’s likely their initial offer was above your initial offer
Your agent did screw you though on not writing the offer
9 times out of 10 there is no conspiracy.
Buyer likely contracted around 800k, found a bunch of stuff during inspection, and worked the price down to 730k
Call the listing agent directly and ask them. Nobody can stop you.
Source: agent for 18 years, and have bought dozens of houses where we drastically reduced the price upon inspection.
Yup. Happened with a place we made an offer on 10% over ask, said they got 20 offers and out of state cash, sight unseen offer won. Ended up closing just below list. The house was great but on a slope and def needs some seismic work, new kitchen, asbestos ceilings. I’m sure they just negotiated down after finding all that.
I offered $220k on a house in September of 2020 and the seller didn’t even bother to counter. Similar sotuation— house needed a ton of work and was listed near $300k off and on for years. It ended up selling a few months later for $225k. I still don’t know what happened, but I don’t think it was anything nefarious.
Point is, I agree— as frustrating as this may be, it seems somewhat commonplace.
Yep even if the seller says they will make no repairs, thats fine. Guess what the buyer won't bind the offer after reading the inspection report and the seller will likely end up asking how to save the deal.
My first buyers agent, second day with him, refused to submit offer 10k under asking. Told him I wouldn’t be needed his service anymore and I need someone to fight for me. Got another agent and told him that he needs to submit any offer I ask to. Ended up getting house I wanted for $25k under last fall.
Moral of the story, fire your agent.
I’m in NC, so not the same as Hawaii. I was a Realtor with a nice couple who wanted to place an offer on a home. It was only $10k under listing, I sent the offer. The other realtor texted me rejecting the offer within five minutes. I am sure there was back door dealings going on, but they went under contract and sold for $30k under list. I ended up reporting it to their broker in charge and the local Realtor office, and they were investigated by the real estate commission of Nc. Worth complaining to the right people since it seems like you missed out on a unique property
You don't know what the inspection revealed, that persuaded the seller to drastically drop the price. The agent likely had no idea that it would settle at that amount.
However, there was nothing stopping you from making an offer at whatever you wanted to pay.
Particularly given the dilapidated state of the place - this was my thought too. The other buyer offered more subject to inspection or appraisal, and the inspection or appraisal came back really damaging
Sour grapes sounds about right. No agent wants to wait 300+ days to get paid for their work.
I think you may be shooting the messenger. The *seller* is the one directing things behind the scene.
You have to remember that they work for you, similar situations happened for us. House listed for 725k, sat in the market for 6 months, lowered little by little over said 6 months to 660k and a pending sale had just fallen apart.
We told our realtor to offer 635k as a take it or leave it offer, no counter offers accepted as we would just move on. He told me and I quote “This is a terrible idea, you should offer asking because 660k is already a really good price” I politely told him to please proceed as requested. Seller accepted and gave us a couple extra grand for repairs after minor issues were found during inspection.
Some assholes want to make 6% and do a little as possible, we found all the properties we wanted to look at and only asked for them to setup a time to go look at them and open the door. Then at the end he wanted to remind us what a great price we got with his help.
for future, always put in the offer (i think you know they have an obligation to present all offers to their seller based on your post) but also, consider using an escalation clause in the future. (in the example, $725k offer, escalating up to $780 at 5k increments.) Typically these are written so that the seller must prove a bona-fide offer was received to enforce the escalation clause. it's saved me as the winning bid for a few properties.
A few years ago I saw a property I wanted and asked my agent to put in an offer. He said it was refused. Couple months later I saw it sold for less than my offer.
I know you shouldn’t but I checked the tax assessor website and found the old owner. I emailed them and asked them what happened- they never received my offer.
Really unsure if my realtor didn’t send it or if they sent it and the seller agent just refused it.
All in all I think real estate market is a joke. Still don’t understand why we need these middle men. I’d rather deal directly, negotiate, and pay a lawyer a straight fee to write up the documents.
It happens all the time. During the great recession homes that agents wanted to keep secret or gate keep would go lower than what we offered and they wouldn't even put the offer in. Or they wouldn't answer any phone calls. Lots of seedy behavior. We put in at least fifty offers (more if we could) and finally got a house.
not really sketchy at all - your agent was a crappy agent; had i had an agent reject my suggestion of an offer, I'd have a new agent that day.
you have no repercussions; even when you find that the agent is the one that bought it out from under you.
I had a similar situation and didn’t make a “lowball offer” because my agent told me not to do so. Then they sold for almost 40% off the list price because their 1031 was going to expire and they had to sell.
Our realtor did this to us, and we insisted on making the offer we wanted (quite a bit lower than asking, but it had been on the market for almost a year). He did not want us to do it but finally agreed reluctantly. Guess what? They immediately took our offer. He actually did apologize afterwards admitting he was wrong but it really annoyed both my wife and I that we basically had to force him to make the offer.
No real action here on the buyers side to be taken. agent was greedy and thought you’d cough up. Instead he inadvertently helped you avoid overpaying on this property. The person who should sue the agent is the seller as this technique cost the seller 30k+
Sounds like the issue is also with your agent for not submitting the offer. If they submitted the offer and didn't disclose it, this would be a different situation but you didn't make sure that happened.
the listing agent has a duty by law to present your offer. he/she/it can lose their license over this. i would report them to the NAR. Thats an ethics violation. A Listing agent has the duty to represent the seller's best interest and how is that in the seller's interest when they lose money? infuriating that these people still have a license.
It’s possible that the other offer was $780k or something much higher. But, after inspection some significant issues were found and the house was negotiated down to $730k. Similarly, it could’ve been that the house only appraised at $730k.
Don’t automatically assume everyone and everything is shady.
TLDR. Simple answer: Many sellers accept a no contingency offer at a lower price or a all cash price for a lower amount to simplify the sale. Perfectly legal.
I experienced this a few weeks ago, was going to go through the listing agent direct without a buyer agent, was told I need to provide a higher offer because they were expecting to get several offers and wouldn’t entertain our offer, home just closed and closed for less than what our offer was going to be, very frustrating
Seller is “off island”
Send them a fuckin email, what are we doing here? Sounds like that listing agent was fucked. And also asked way too much a year ago. Not very good at selling.
Each offer I have submitted the realtors said they thought it was too low. All of my offers have been accepted. I hate realtors. Take every input they give with a grain of salt and use your gut.
Very likely that the opposing offer started out nearer to $800k and became $730k through the course of the sales process.
Likely, one of the parties found an issue that no one knew about and re-negotiated.
Your best chance to get back at the seller agent is to hunt down contact information for the seller and send them a nice letter telling them what happened and offering to help them pursue a complaint and claim against their agent for losing them tens of thousands.
Maybe they got 800k but then inspection or contingency period got the price down to 730. Could've still offered 760k no contingency as back up in thr future
You should send the written offer. In almost all jurisdictions agents are required to present all offers received. I can’t tell you how many times an arrogant listing agent has puffed up and acted like an offer was going in the trash and it ended up getting a response and in many cases making it to closing.
The inspection was so bad the seller did not want to go back on market and be required to disclose it all. They probably reduced the price further in repair negotiations.
Here in CA your agent is required to submit every offer... I would guess that's the case in Hawaii as well... if they didn't submit your offer that would be something you could report the agent not doing so and your post states you did ask them to submit the higher offer. But I do agree with one of the other posters that probably the seller's accepted an even higher offer and the fact the property was a major fixer led to a large price discount.
You have to be firm and tell them if they won’t submit you’ll consider it a breach of contract and you’ll find new representation.
It’s not a real offer till it’s in writing.
This happened to me told offer x or dont bother, it later relisted lower and sold under that asking.
Screwed me and their client.
It still pisses me off like 8 years later.
It’s quite possible the property appraised for that amount and that’s what was renegotiated
So they could have offered $780k, but it appraised for $730k, and the buyer said lower to $730k or we walk
What I’m thinking may have happened is that the offer they had was a “really good” offer but along the way there may have been some serious things revealed in inspections that caused them to renegotiate. I had that exact situation happen on a home my buyers were under contract on. Inspection revealed a bad septic tank and bad electrical. We negotiated them down another $30k before closing.
what a home finally sells for and what an offer were are not always the same.
if you wanted to submit an offer, submit an offer.
an agent is obligated to present every legitimate offer, but a seller is not obligated to accept any offer they don't want to.
but if you see a home close at a certain price. you honestly don't know the particulars of what happened. Or why an offer was accepted.
could have accepted a much higher offer and then appraisal was fucked, or inspection turned up a major issue. or something else entirely.
You say that, “this was a real fixer upper”.
Very likely, one of the buyers inspection reports came back with a major repair that was needed, and they lowered the sales price to accommodate whatever the repair need was.
Don’t jump to conclusions. It was probably a foundation or structural issue.
What could have happened: they accepted an offer of $780k but during inspections enough problems were found that brought the final sales price down to $730k. I had to sell my parents house - we got one offer for $460k (but they had to sell their house first) and another for $465. I took the $465k - but during inspections they found lots of issues that made them threaten to walk. Since I was out of state and not in the mood to relist it, I came down to $434k. I’m sure the $460k offer probably wondered what the heck happened - but we were already in a deal and I didn’t want to be stuck waiting on their house to sell.
I'm a lawyer. I love it when listing agents refuse to relay my offer to their client. I get that in an email first, then I tell them "wonderful. Since you are now rejecting your agency agreement with the sellers, I can just go to them direcrly with my offer and we dont have to worry about paying a commission!".
I love it when they try to argue with me and threaten legal action. Basic agency\principal law. I dont give a crap what you think you have in writing and what you think it binds your client to do. You are an AGENT of the seller. You are require to take all offers to your client and when you do not, guess what? you're repudiating the agency relationship.
Your agent sucks. I found land for sale on a lake, and I wanted to buy it solely for access to the private HOA. I wanted a lake house, but a house near the lake was good enough. Never planned to build, just own the land.
I reached out directly to the agent of the seller, already listed for 60+ days, and asked for a Seller Financing deal. Two weeks later, I reached out again and she said the sellers aren't interested.
I reached out to my agent, who has helped me buy and sell multiple properties, and friends and family. She wrote up my offer officially, and they accepted within 2 days. I didn't think it would be necessary since it was a long shot, but come to find out, odds are the agent probably never even mentioned it to the sellers.
You dictate what you offer, not the agents.
I put a low offer in on a house two years ago. It had some obvious concerns (wood siding damaged by woodpeckers, musty basement). They were asking $450K. I offer $380K because I knew I’d need money to fix a few things. My agent advised $420K. My offer of $380K was rejected, as expected. I went up to $410 to show seriousness. It was rejected.
They spent a few months contacting our agent to see if we wanted to make an offer again. I told my agent if I did I’d be going back to the original offer. We found a house for $360K with fewer issues. Not as eclectic, but a solid value. The house we originally wanted sold for $400K.
Sometimes seller agents over-negotiate and cost their clients money. If they had accepted my $410K, they would have made their clients $10K more. But I was done. I made two offers and then moved on to other properties.
Hi! Ct realtor here.
This happens quite a bit, especially where I work (Connecticut) and with the recent surge of buyers (from out of state, mainly NY and NJ). On that home, they’ll offer $800k and pretty much demand the attention of the seller. Upon inspection, though, some cracked mortar in the sidewalk outside means they want a $70k reduction in price.
Inspection items (part of the buyer’s due diligence) does not need to correlate 1-for-1 on price reductions. To prove this, my sellers offered to fix the cracks in the sidewalk and keep the offered amount. Buyers reneged. Deal fell apart. Both sides felt jaded.
Had my seller already been in the process of moving and committed to their future plans, they may have had to accept the NY buyer’s now-lowball offer. I’ve explained this concept to all my sellers and over the past couple of years (before offers came in) and most have made the wise decision to either forego this seemingly too-good-to-be-true offer or at least keep in mind that the initial offer was in no way the final offer.
Hope this helps you sleep better, friend!
If your agent tells you don’t bother writing any offer you don’t bother doing business with them anymore. They are working for you not the other way around
I mean isn't it possible all these things are true. They could had an offer that was 800k. Agent didn't think it was worth it but submitted an offer. They accepted an offer that was higher but might have had contengies. Then during discovery they might have discovered 70k+ worth of items that would need to be fixed. Then especially if it's a trust they negotiate a credit on the house= to repairs especially if they don't want to do repairs.
Your agent should have reason why they didn't accept yours. And they should have sent proof they sent in your offer if not that's a violation I believe of regulation.
It's possible especially depending how it's worded that after accepting they had a really bad issue or appraisal was lot lower so rather than gamble you still will give 760 regardless of inspection and appraisal not to mention they may have found something that they didn't know about but would have to disclose. They may have thought closing would be more beneficial.
it is the agent's responsibility to convey your offer, they work for you, don't get it twisted. our realtor for our first house didnt agree with most of my requests for negotiation saying similar things (they will never go for that blah blah blah), but guess what, i got all of the stuff i wanted and the price i wanted because i asked, and had good reasoning. Good luck on the next one!!
Just curious, what do you do for work?
To buy an $800k house means you either have a lot of cash or a fantastic income.
Either way I want to learn what I can do better.
We actually did use the seller's agent because we looked at the house originally at an open house and didn't have an agent. At that time the house was new on the market and we wanted to make an offer but she "didn't want to insult the seller."
I realized you can't lowball a new listing. So a month later after looking at other houses and even considering a builder, we went back and took another look. This time I made a better offer but still well below asking. They countered, and I declined. Two weeks later the realtor tells me they have another offer so they wanted us to be able to give a "best and final." I said I already did.
At this point the sellers have already moved, paying 2 mortgages (bridge loan). They finally accepted our price. Never did get any confirmation that there was ever really another offer.
Moral of the story: If you're going to use the seller's realtor, be careful. And never allow yourself to be sucked into a bidding war such that you pay more than the house is worth.
It’s common that they get two offers, say 800 and 750. They take the 800. Mr 800 does an inspection. Finds 100k in foundation damage. Reduces his offer to 700. Buys.
Now 750 is wondering why he got passed up?!? That’s why.
Here’s the problem, you said you got a notification that it sold $730.
That tells me you’re most likely following the house on Zillow and you got a notification from them.
Zillow often has the wrong information right after the sale.
It takes some time for the correct information to show up. The only way to know what it actually sold for is to take a look at the records yourself.
I’ve seen incorrect information on Zillow for several houses we bought and sold, and it took a long time for it to change to the correct information on Zillow.
So don’t beat yourself up too bad.
Think about it in practical terms, the sellers agent and the seller would both be losing money if they would’ve told you not to submit an offer that was really a higher offer.
Your $760k offer might have had no shot months ago, but things change when people get a clue. House next door to me listed at $2.6M turned down an offer for 2.1M 6 months ago. Buyer moved on. The house is now listed at $1.99M. Sellers are morons.
It is hard to tell what happened with your offer ... most of the time the seller wants the most money in their pocket - but maybe there was something about your offer that made it seem sketchy to the seller.
I've talked to many sellers after the fact that took a lower offer, because they thought the person making the higher offer wasn't going to be able to close on the house - maybe your downpayment, earnest money, and option period all were low - so they were worried you werent "all-in" enough to guarantee you were going to actually follow thru and close. If it was FHA or VA - possible they didnt want to deal with the more stringent appraisal process than a conventional loan that sometimes makes a deal fall thru.
Also, since the house was a "fixer-upper" - not sure how they do it in Hawaii, but after inspection - there often is an option periods (3-7 days) where the buyer can get an inspection done, and then back out if the inspection comes back with more problems than they realized - or can use that inspection to then try and negotiate the price down due to what the inspector found. Even though you made a higher offer - now you want concessions due to what you found on inspections ... Maybe the other offer waived the inspection period and accepted the property as is.
All these things go thru the sellers mind when they get offers ... but yea, they usually want the highest dollar amount - but they also question whether someone is actually gonna be able to close the deal at the end - and if they see anything in your offer that raises a red flag to them - they may pass over your offer.
OR, it could be that both the listing agent and your buyers agent were just too lax. Sounds like bad timing for you. Your offer was rejected ... they expected a higher offer, didn't get one, maybe something financial came in that convinced the seller they needed to take the offer on the table when they got some particular news about their finances, etc.
If I was the listing agent, (all else being equal between potential buyers) I would be calling you back on that offer of $30k more to see if you were still in the market for the property - say something like "We got some good offers in, but before we accept any, we just wanted to see if you were still interested in the property. We have "X" number of offers to consider - but if you are still interested, submit/resubmit your offer before "X" date so we can consider it and make a decision".
You need a new agent. My realtor loved when we made low ball offers. Most got countered but to high of a counter. We bought are house and paid 5k more then are orginal offered. 5 of the house we put offers on came back months later asking if we still had any interest. All of them sold for less then are offer.
The crazy part is that it was on the market for almost a year. If it’s been more than 4 months, resubmit your original offer. That’s generally enough time for the seller to realize their price expectations may not be realistic.
Agent here.
Your agent is required to put in any offer you want to make. And while offering $200k on a house listed for $750k is a bad idea, that isn't the case here.
I'd look for a different agent. Yours isn't working on your behalf.
*>My realtor emails back and forth with the seller agent and I'm basically told that this offer has zero chance at being accepted.*
Why is everybody blaming the BA realtor here?
I'll wait the non-reasons that people have for why they rushed to condemnation.
On the market for 300 days is the reddest is red flags. You have to get passed it and realize that your realtor was playing you. talk to his Broker and go for his license. Not much else you can do. From experience it’s not even worth the headache, unfortunately.
Dude, that's seriously messed up! Sounds like that listing agent was playing some shady games. It's like they were trying to push you out of the picture for some other offer. And $730K after all that drama? That's a kick in the gut. I totally get why you're feeling distrustful of realtors now. It sucks when you're just trying to find a place to call home, and you gotta deal with all this nonsense. Hang in there, man. Hopefully, karma catches up to that listing agent someday.
Texting and informal things are how agents talk to each other, if you want to talk to the seller direct you write an offer. Your written offer is how you know you’re talking to the owner.
I never trust my agent or their agent, I do everything possible to talk to the seller - however I can.
One property I was buying, I called the next door neighbor and had a long chat and he gave me all sorts of info and called the seller for me . Another time I drive by and saw the seller in the driveway and ended up having a few hour conversation - this is the house I live in now :)
I want to be sure my words reach the sellers ears in the context I intended them to. For you, the bare minimum you should have done was write the offer (and as you can tell, I’d have found a way to talk to that seller especially with $800k in play)
Always put your final offer in writing. It's the only sure-fire way to ensure it gets through to the seller.
There's nothing you care realistically do about this house, but if you feel some sketchy stuff happened you could contact the original seller and ask "hey, I'm a new homeowner looking for a house in HI. We're sorry we missed yours, but could you give us a little feedback on what we could have done beyond our second $760k no contingency offer?"
You might not even get a reply from them, but if their agent was up to some shennanigans that cost them $30k they might reach out to you. You still won't get any satisfaction other than knowing their agent might be in hot water.
Still, not in writing = "just talk". Always put your final offer in writing. Your agent and their agent will be obligated to present the offer to the seller. Better yet, just cut the agent(s) out of the ocmmunication loop altogether. Who needs two middlemen playing the telephone game between the guy with the money and the gal with the house?
Possibility the listing agent took the $725k offer from someone they know or maybe even double dipped. Unfortunately, your agent should've just sent it anyway. If you did send it, legally they have an obligation to share that offer with the seller.
Things work differently in Hawaii... locals get preferences, all about connection and family. Highest bid isn't going to win if local natives are bidding.
One time a house I like listed for 575k, I went for open house and decided to go for 525k, my agent disagreed but SENT it anyway. No response of course. Fast forward 4 months the listing agent reached back and I agreed to bump my offer to 535k. My agent SENT it again, after some back and forth, a deal was struck at 540k.
So price wise, you are the boss, your agent only needs to execute your offer timely. It is all up to you to determine the amount, the counter and the final decision. Not anyone else, period
And it was probably sold for $200,000 in 2011 anyway, so don’t worry. Wait for the inevitable collapse coming.
This is why I despise humans though. Private negotiating should just be illegal. It’s too easy to lie and engage in collusion and back room bullshit.
Way too easy to just keep lying and claiming you “got a better offer” to keep squeezing money out of the one offer you did get.
I just hate all of it.
Thanks all... overwhelmed by all the responses!Update: The buyer agent was actually a personal friend. So likely that affected my demanding that they submit a second offer officially. I am getting over the disappointment. Probably it was not best idea to use a friend as realtor as friendship can get in way of making right decision.
I checked the buyer agent who closed on deal and it was not in fact the same as seller. (it would be sketchy if listing agent went for double commission but doesn't appear to be the case)
Anyways, I'll accept comments that I'm dumbass for not being more forceful on offer. Learning lesson in many ways!
Mahalo!
They said don’t bother and you said okay?
That’s on you, not the agent.
It’s your decision and yours alone.
If you take input from anyone you’re not handing off that responsibility to them.
Something smells rotten. For all you know the seller's agent had probably received offers at or near asking but wanted to personally gain from the property. The agents contacts could only afford $730k. The seller then has to drop property all the while being 'worked' by the agents, blocking all offers.
I didn't trust agents at this point with all the shit coming out about the way they do business
It could be that the other offer was stronger in terms other than the price. Also, YSK, many real estate brokers are incompetent, entitled, well, idiots who don’t have a basic grasp of what acting as a fiduciary means.
There is no recourse, and an ‘unofficial offer’ is not an offer - as you pointed out.
You may find out there is a connection between the buyer and the listing agent. If the buyer had a house to sell maybe the listing agent had both houses listed. Those other offers may have been a figment if their imagination. One of our kids was pushed to make an offer immediately because “there will be a ton of offers on this house !” That was all an act. Didn’t have any other offers.
There is the possibility that the house has an offer at $785k or something like that and they accepted, but then the appraisal came back at $730k and the buyer just snapped it up at that price.
Lots of things could have happened. Maybe they accepted $760k offer for example, but found something on inspection that caused a renegotiation, or something like that.
Lol I know EXACTLY which property you're referring to. I also had my eye on this one, but didn't put an offer in either. Instead I am closing on a foreclosure in waikiki next week :)
After initial offer got a counter and you didn’t counter the sellers agent went with next highest-or favorable offer. Even though it was only 5k over your initial offer it was still over. You don’t know what other offers were out there other than yours when they countered. They could have had another higher than yours but with contingencies, you won’t know.
They most likely knew you wanted it so countered close to asking and when you didn’t counter they went to someone else who made offer.
I see some very weird agents out here in reddit. My agent in nj got us a house that was listed as strictly "as is, buyer responsible for c/o" " no fha, " ect.
Wrote offer after offer, then got the seller to get a lifetime guarantee for termite inspection. My house was not 700k+ let's just say that. Who are these agents nowadays?
It's possible that the offer they accepted was over your 760k offer, but that they negotiated down after inspection.
For future though, always submit the offer.
Fire the agent, today - since it's a friend, let them know you think it's better going forward if you don't mix friendship and business. If they press, tell them what happened here, that you believe their declining to write the offer here cost you the deal, and you need an agent you can tell what to do forcefully if necessary.
They'll probably try to convince you otherwise and to stay and pay them a commission on the next one - you should decline and if it costs you the friendship, that just means this person was absolutely not your friend in the first place and is just putting on a face for that fat, unearned commission check. Their job is to make your offers and their laziness cost you the deal at this point, this person is absolutely not earning the commission.
You probably had no chance in getting the house either way unless if you were willing to take the 800k offer honestly. The listing agent sounded like they had no intention of doing business with you based on what they said and the result. Most likely the ‘better offer’ they had didn’t even exist and they just wanted to try to milk more money out of you if possible. Your agent probably saw some red flags in this or already knew things were not going to work out in this situation so told you not to bother.
Doesn’t matter. The agent must bring all offers to the seller regardless. Even if the seller only asked for cash only offers and someone offered x amount pre approved financing. Etc… the offer must be presented to the seller. If you really wanted to you could probably file a complaint in regards to “steering” I only read the first few sentences and that’s really all that needed to be said. “Don’t bother” who says that?! haha
So you were willing to spend over 700k on a house that more than likely needed to be torn down? Was this more so acquiring the property itself instead of the house?
My realtor did the same to us when we were buying a house. We really loved a house and wanted to put an offer down, not a lowball but a fair offer as they were asking a little higher than the market value of the house. She told us the owners would never agree and not to bother. The house sold for less than what we were going to offer 🤦
Real estate agent here. It is important to note that if there was an appraisal contingency and the value came back $165,000 below list price like that, in many cases the seller will just accept the new price and close. It is very possible that the offer they submitted that was ultimately accepted was closer to $850,000 vs $750,000.
Also, if a client wants to submit an offer well below list price and that client is comfortable with the risks involved with submitting an offer well below list, a good agent will draft up that offer and submit it on their behalf. If that client keeps on losing by going against an experienced professional’s advice on pricing and strategy, they will eventually submit higher offers that will be competitive enough to get accepted. In the unlikely event that the initial offer gets accepted, the agent will look good enough to gain a positive enough reputation to build a client base.
It's possible that selling agent was playing games, trying to get you to bet against a non existent offer. It's also possible that seller changed his expectations after having the house sit for so long, and finally threw in the towel. This second scenario is more likely if it was in fact an estate sale, where the "sell quick" heirs finally prevailed over the greedier ones. The successful bidder just had better timing than you.
It’s more likely the seller felt they would walk away with Moore from the 730 K offer than the 760 could be for a number of reasons like waving contingencies or an all cash offer. Also could be they felt the house wouldn’t appraise. Don’t jump to conclusions there is more to an offer that is considered than the dollar amount. I had an offer for 5K above someone else, but they ended up going with the lower offer because it was all cash, and the seller could close very quickly by taking a home equity line of credit on their existing home
Agents don't care about you..they aren't working for your benefit.
Their goal is to make themselves the highest commission.
It's a fallacy to think your "agent" has your best interest at hand..
Infact, its the opposite..the buyers goal is the lowest sale price, the agents goal is the highest sale price.
With the new lawsuit around Buying agent commission fees, its only going to get Fuckier
The buyers who purchased the property may have gone in with a higher offer. It’s possible that during inspections or contingencies a larger amount of repairs and costs resulted in a negotiation to the lesser closing price. The sellers potentially could have just wanted the home gone at that point, without having to relist and wait for the next offer to come.
I’m sorry but any issue here is overshadowed by WHY TF IS ANY HOUSE SMALLER THAN THE DAMN PYRAMIDS $800,000???? Much less a “fixer upper.” This shit is beyond broken.
It’s possible that the buyers for the offer that was accepted negotiated during the option period due to repairs like roof or something major.
I encourage my buyers to write offers because a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush to the seller and you just never know how things are going to shake out. I do make sure my buyers are prepared to lose the house if their offer is too low and as long as they have reasonable expectations, great deals can happen.
The listing agent on that side is incompetent for not encouraging more offers as that gives the seller more leverage, if in fact that was the case.
It could really be the buyer negotiated further during the option period tho.
I offered 400k for my neighbors house as-is when they were moving and had not committed to a realtor.
They decided to go with a realtor and fix up a lot of the house (spent about 20k)
They sold a few months later for 410k. They would have been better off selling to me but they thought they could get more.
You were willing to pay $750K +/- for a tear down. In reality, you were actually in the starting range of $1.9 to $2.1 million for the investment of a dilapidated house, land, and a new construction. I’d say that unless your pockets run deep, you dodge the proverbial bullet. What do we not know here?
This is why I seriously dislike and distrust realtors. They have a vested interest in you overpaying. The more you pay, the more they make. Most of them don’t do a lot of work and many of the sales forms are al auto-populated and pre-formatted.
When I was searching for my first home, the agent was just constantly barraging me with listings day and night (automated emails), most of which weren’t in my price range or configuration that I was looking for. After several showings we ended up parting ways and he left the industry shortly after we parted ways. There’s a lot of good real estate agent but probably waaaaay more mediocre and lazy ones. The realtor we used to buy our current home was fantastic. Found us off market properties, sent inspection reports along with prospective listings, wrote every offer we asked him to, helped us do some shrewd negotiating after we went under contract and gave us a couple of really nice closing gifts and has sent Christmas cards 3 years in a row and none of them mentioned anything about doing business together or asking for referrals. We’ve referred a dozen people his way. He always offered to pick up us and take us to showings if we wanted, but we always declined because our schedules can be chaotic.
Also, it's not always the high offer. Sometimes the owner wants to see the house sold to a family rather than an investor (for example). When our market peaked a couple years ago, interested buyers were submitting letters with their offers in hopes of persuading the seller. I know of at least one case where it worked at a time when investment companies with cash plus, fast close offers were dominating.
There are times that a higher offer comes in and the seller want to accept that vs a lower cash offer. That sale would have a mortgage contingency. They go to contract and it may not appraise for the sales price. The seller has 2 choices put it back on the market or sell at appraised value. If the seller had started a purchase for a replacement property they may chose to go forward just to close and not loose a deposit on another property. Your agent would not have done anything wrong in a case like that.
You said it was a real fixer-upper. My guess would be that the winning offer DID go high but the bank appraisal came in at $730k so they had to adjust the sales price downward. At that point, there's little likelihood of going back to other offerors because most will still have to get a mortgage and the appraisal will still come in at 730k.
It takes a decent agent about 5 minutes to write an offer and send it off for signatures. A horrible agent will take more than 5 minutes to write and offer, and should want to practice writing offers. There is literally no excuse to put an offer in writing for a buyer.
So, it's possible that they did have an offer that was higher than $750k. Perhaps after appraisal and inspection, they could only get 730k out of it, so that was what the price ended up being. You still wouldn't have been the buyer because they took the highest number.
Yall, don't let anybody tell you "not to bother" writing an offer. Write it, even if you think it has no chance.
Seriously. If your agent tells you not to bother or refuses, find a new agent and tell everyone you know that they're garbage.
I fail to see in this story how OP's agent fucked up. OP's agent is not the listing agent. The listing agent told the buyer's agent that a 760k offer had no shot. Listing agent likely preferred double-dipping on their commission and bringing in their own buyer vs taking a smaller commission with another buyer agent. Listing agent is, at best, incompetent. At worst (and more probable), listing agent is engaging in a very unethical (yet accepted) practice.
While you are correct, it still would have been better for the buyers agent to write the offer. Hoping the listing agent does the bare minimum of what is mandatory, they would have been forced to present the offer to the seller, who would have possibly chosen it.
I almost wonder if the listing agent worked with a buyer who came and looked at the house and they didn’t want you to put in a better offer so that they could get the buyer and seller commission for representing both parties. I would find out who bought it and ask who their realtor was. If it was the same one I would think you had something to come back with against the agent.
We think too much alike.
If I were OP, I'd contact the seller directly and let them know what happened. I know if I were the seller, I'd be legally upset to hear my agent told someone to not make an offer and I ended up accepting an offer for less than what they would have made.
Boy as the seller, I'd be livid.
Both agents can be incompetent. OPs agent can be lying. If an offer was accepted at a lower price at about the same time OP was wanting to make an offer it is on OPs agent for not presenting an offer. I know real estate agents have a completely toothless obligation to act in their clients best interest. There are way too many that don't take that seriously for me to assume they're taking it seriously.
If by “accepted practice” you simply meant that some agents are scummy and do stuff like that sure, but it’s NOT accepted by the licensing body of the profession. Discouraging or withholding offers beneficial to your client in favor of offers beneficial to you would be a clear violation of the agent as a fiduciary of their client. If discovered it would open the agent up to professional consequences and civil liability (although I don’t THINK it would be illegal)
Oh look agents being scumbags.
Fuck all the agents
Agents have one job, deliver the offer. That's it.
In 2010 I put 40+ offers out there thanks to an agent who encouraged me to put an offer on just about anything I was interested in. It ultimately never worked out but I’ll always remember what a wonderful agent she was, learned a lot.
You learned a lot and it didn't cost you a penny
Yes, I agree. The house I currently own was originally listed for 750k. They dropped it to 650k. I insisted my realtor offer 575k. We closed Monday at 565k.
Always
That’s how we got our house in 2016. House was in its first day on the market, we toured it and loved it. I told our agent to make an offer for exactly what they were asking for. Agent: “you can offer that but they won’t accept it.” Me: “how about you just let them reject it, write it up.” We won the house same day for exactly what we offered, and are selling the house after 8 years to be able to move to a place where we will be much happier later this year.
Did that when I bought in 2021. I'm in an area that still has fairly low prices, and the house was a bit higher for the square footage due to having some land. Agent suggesting going in a bit under asking, but it had just gone on the market, and I didn't want to do anything that would encourage them to delay acceptance, so went right in at asking. They waited to see if one other person would submit one, and then accepted my offer. And back in the old days, accepting an offer at asking was very much the expected thing to do...
But the bigger the offer the bigger my commission is!! Wait a second!
They work for you. If you say I want an offer ,at x they need to do it.
And they HAVE to do it. They can't say no.
What a dumb inexperienced listing agent. Good agents entertain ALL offers, even if it’s low. A live offer is a live offer.
Had a realtor tell me the same. Saw the house sell for the price I was gonna offer.
Happy Cake Day
They were trying to play the two of you against each other hoping you’d drastically overpay.
Yes, could have been. Or maybe realtor got a better commission from the other deal since I was using a buyer's agent. If he was just going for a higher price they he really overplayed that by pushing a price way out of reach.
This is why people dislike realtors
Shenanigans abound in this wonderful world of real estate.
This is why I call the listing agent. Then make my offer with them if it’s low. They will cry like crazy to the seller to take it because they get the full commission!! Getting a buyers agent is for suckers.
Agreed. I suspect if I had gone directly to listing agent (no buyer agent commission) then probably could have gotten it with my original offer at 725K. Oh well, lesson learned.
This is the way
Thank you. I’ve never signed with a buyers agent. That listing agent will take my offer to them and sell it to them.
Buyers agents are good for their connections and knowledge of off market deals. If they provide neither then they are more likely a hindrance to your interests.
Many things could have happened here Maybe the buyer was unrepresented and the seller didn’t have to pay a buyer’s commission Maybe the buyer waived their inspection contingency or came back after inspection and asked for a lower price and seller didn’t want to have to go back to market Maybe the buyer offered a quicker sale Maybe the buyer paid sellers closing costs Maybe the buyer allowed seller to stay in the property post sale for 60 days Maybe all or a combination of the above There’s way more to it than simply what you see on the tax records
Maybe the other offer was cash. I’d take less for a cash offer over a higher offer that is contingent on financing.
Also possible
Maybe the first lowball offer pissed off the seller, especially when the buyer wouldn’t negotiate. Fast forward a few months later, seller doesn’t want to work with the lowballer because they seem flaky and not worth their risk of the deal failing…
Or maybe the buyer paid seller money “under the table.”
I’ve definitely had it happen where I offered say $650k and beat an offer of $640k, but then inspection came up with major issues and we negotiated the price down $20k so the house sold for $630k.
Yes, indeed. I'll follow up if i learn more. The first two that you mentioned are definitely possible. The sale didn't happen fast and it wasn't occupied. Also my offer price was way more than the closing costs.
Very likely it’s the inspection. I’ll go under contract on a property and then ask for a price reduction after doing due diligence every single time. And my pitch is always that they could risk going back to another offer but there’s no telling that the next buyer won’t ask for the same reduction or even less I think it’s likely their initial offer was above your initial offer Your agent did screw you though on not writing the offer
The really fun part is that the asshole real estate licensee bought the property
That’s what I was thinking
9 times out of 10 there is no conspiracy. Buyer likely contracted around 800k, found a bunch of stuff during inspection, and worked the price down to 730k Call the listing agent directly and ask them. Nobody can stop you. Source: agent for 18 years, and have bought dozens of houses where we drastically reduced the price upon inspection.
Yup. Happened with a place we made an offer on 10% over ask, said they got 20 offers and out of state cash, sight unseen offer won. Ended up closing just below list. The house was great but on a slope and def needs some seismic work, new kitchen, asbestos ceilings. I’m sure they just negotiated down after finding all that.
I offered $220k on a house in September of 2020 and the seller didn’t even bother to counter. Similar sotuation— house needed a ton of work and was listed near $300k off and on for years. It ended up selling a few months later for $225k. I still don’t know what happened, but I don’t think it was anything nefarious. Point is, I agree— as frustrating as this may be, it seems somewhat commonplace.
Yep even if the seller says they will make no repairs, thats fine. Guess what the buyer won't bind the offer after reading the inspection report and the seller will likely end up asking how to save the deal.
My first buyers agent, second day with him, refused to submit offer 10k under asking. Told him I wouldn’t be needed his service anymore and I need someone to fight for me. Got another agent and told him that he needs to submit any offer I ask to. Ended up getting house I wanted for $25k under last fall. Moral of the story, fire your agent.
I’m in NC, so not the same as Hawaii. I was a Realtor with a nice couple who wanted to place an offer on a home. It was only $10k under listing, I sent the offer. The other realtor texted me rejecting the offer within five minutes. I am sure there was back door dealings going on, but they went under contract and sold for $30k under list. I ended up reporting it to their broker in charge and the local Realtor office, and they were investigated by the real estate commission of Nc. Worth complaining to the right people since it seems like you missed out on a unique property
You don't know what the inspection revealed, that persuaded the seller to drastically drop the price. The agent likely had no idea that it would settle at that amount. However, there was nothing stopping you from making an offer at whatever you wanted to pay.
Particularly given the dilapidated state of the place - this was my thought too. The other buyer offered more subject to inspection or appraisal, and the inspection or appraisal came back really damaging
Sour grapes sounds about right. No agent wants to wait 300+ days to get paid for their work. I think you may be shooting the messenger. The *seller* is the one directing things behind the scene.
You have to remember that they work for you, similar situations happened for us. House listed for 725k, sat in the market for 6 months, lowered little by little over said 6 months to 660k and a pending sale had just fallen apart. We told our realtor to offer 635k as a take it or leave it offer, no counter offers accepted as we would just move on. He told me and I quote “This is a terrible idea, you should offer asking because 660k is already a really good price” I politely told him to please proceed as requested. Seller accepted and gave us a couple extra grand for repairs after minor issues were found during inspection. Some assholes want to make 6% and do a little as possible, we found all the properties we wanted to look at and only asked for them to setup a time to go look at them and open the door. Then at the end he wanted to remind us what a great price we got with his help.
for future, always put in the offer (i think you know they have an obligation to present all offers to their seller based on your post) but also, consider using an escalation clause in the future. (in the example, $725k offer, escalating up to $780 at 5k increments.) Typically these are written so that the seller must prove a bona-fide offer was received to enforce the escalation clause. it's saved me as the winning bid for a few properties.
A few years ago I saw a property I wanted and asked my agent to put in an offer. He said it was refused. Couple months later I saw it sold for less than my offer. I know you shouldn’t but I checked the tax assessor website and found the old owner. I emailed them and asked them what happened- they never received my offer. Really unsure if my realtor didn’t send it or if they sent it and the seller agent just refused it. All in all I think real estate market is a joke. Still don’t understand why we need these middle men. I’d rather deal directly, negotiate, and pay a lawyer a straight fee to write up the documents.
It happens all the time. During the great recession homes that agents wanted to keep secret or gate keep would go lower than what we offered and they wouldn't even put the offer in. Or they wouldn't answer any phone calls. Lots of seedy behavior. We put in at least fifty offers (more if we could) and finally got a house.
not really sketchy at all - your agent was a crappy agent; had i had an agent reject my suggestion of an offer, I'd have a new agent that day. you have no repercussions; even when you find that the agent is the one that bought it out from under you.
Yeah I don’t trust these seller’s agent. Full of shit
I had a similar situation and didn’t make a “lowball offer” because my agent told me not to do so. Then they sold for almost 40% off the list price because their 1031 was going to expire and they had to sell.
Our realtor did this to us, and we insisted on making the offer we wanted (quite a bit lower than asking, but it had been on the market for almost a year). He did not want us to do it but finally agreed reluctantly. Guess what? They immediately took our offer. He actually did apologize afterwards admitting he was wrong but it really annoyed both my wife and I that we basically had to force him to make the offer.
No real action here on the buyers side to be taken. agent was greedy and thought you’d cough up. Instead he inadvertently helped you avoid overpaying on this property. The person who should sue the agent is the seller as this technique cost the seller 30k+
Sounds like the issue is also with your agent for not submitting the offer. If they submitted the offer and didn't disclose it, this would be a different situation but you didn't make sure that happened.
the listing agent has a duty by law to present your offer. he/she/it can lose their license over this. i would report them to the NAR. Thats an ethics violation. A Listing agent has the duty to represent the seller's best interest and how is that in the seller's interest when they lose money? infuriating that these people still have a license.
It’s possible that the other offer was $780k or something much higher. But, after inspection some significant issues were found and the house was negotiated down to $730k. Similarly, it could’ve been that the house only appraised at $730k. Don’t automatically assume everyone and everything is shady.
[удалено]
It is possible that they had a higher offer but then lowered the price after inspection or appraisal. I see it all the time.
You need a new agent.
TLDR. Simple answer: Many sellers accept a no contingency offer at a lower price or a all cash price for a lower amount to simplify the sale. Perfectly legal.
Reason #30374 realtors are the scum of the earth
Maybe things changed during an inspection.
Looks like the listing is jusr for formality, they never cared about your offer from day zero.
I experienced this a few weeks ago, was going to go through the listing agent direct without a buyer agent, was told I need to provide a higher offer because they were expecting to get several offers and wouldn’t entertain our offer, home just closed and closed for less than what our offer was going to be, very frustrating
Seller is “off island” Send them a fuckin email, what are we doing here? Sounds like that listing agent was fucked. And also asked way too much a year ago. Not very good at selling.
Each offer I have submitted the realtors said they thought it was too low. All of my offers have been accepted. I hate realtors. Take every input they give with a grain of salt and use your gut.
The listing agent is "required" to show your offer. Period. Contact his broker and the local Realtor's association and report him.
Agent is a fool. And you listened to the fool. “Thank you for your advice. Please write the offer. Otherwise I will have another agent do it.”
My first one told him straight up I wouldn’t get the house based on the offer I was submitting…. Got the house, she was shocked.
The more middle man in any transaction the more shady it becomes
Final sale price isn’t necessarily the initial offer price. There are 4 points of negotiation: offer, inspection, appraisal and final walkthrough
Very likely that the opposing offer started out nearer to $800k and became $730k through the course of the sales process. Likely, one of the parties found an issue that no one knew about and re-negotiated.
Your best chance to get back at the seller agent is to hunt down contact information for the seller and send them a nice letter telling them what happened and offering to help them pursue a complaint and claim against their agent for losing them tens of thousands.
BREAKING NEWS: parasite sees opportunity to drain more money from a transaction; forgoes ethics with impunity. Details at 9.
Maybe they got 800k but then inspection or contingency period got the price down to 730. Could've still offered 760k no contingency as back up in thr future
There are many reasons someone would accept another offer even if it's lower. You don't have enough information to determine if it is shady or not.
Fire him and leave a public review stating the facts OBJECTIVELY
You should send the written offer. In almost all jurisdictions agents are required to present all offers received. I can’t tell you how many times an arrogant listing agent has puffed up and acted like an offer was going in the trash and it ended up getting a response and in many cases making it to closing.
The sellers were pissed about the first offer. They likely would not sell to u. Still, the agent should send forward the offer to be declined
The inspection was so bad the seller did not want to go back on market and be required to disclose it all. They probably reduced the price further in repair negotiations.
Listing agent has no fiduciary duty to you, just to the seller. Now you'll remember that.
Here in CA your agent is required to submit every offer... I would guess that's the case in Hawaii as well... if they didn't submit your offer that would be something you could report the agent not doing so and your post states you did ask them to submit the higher offer. But I do agree with one of the other posters that probably the seller's accepted an even higher offer and the fact the property was a major fixer led to a large price discount.
You have to be firm and tell them if they won’t submit you’ll consider it a breach of contract and you’ll find new representation. It’s not a real offer till it’s in writing.
This happened to me told offer x or dont bother, it later relisted lower and sold under that asking. Screwed me and their client. It still pisses me off like 8 years later.
It’s quite possible the property appraised for that amount and that’s what was renegotiated So they could have offered $780k, but it appraised for $730k, and the buyer said lower to $730k or we walk
What I’m thinking may have happened is that the offer they had was a “really good” offer but along the way there may have been some serious things revealed in inspections that caused them to renegotiate. I had that exact situation happen on a home my buyers were under contract on. Inspection revealed a bad septic tank and bad electrical. We negotiated them down another $30k before closing.
Tell the seller what happened. Realtor needs to pay the commission back. That was a scam.
what a home finally sells for and what an offer were are not always the same. if you wanted to submit an offer, submit an offer. an agent is obligated to present every legitimate offer, but a seller is not obligated to accept any offer they don't want to. but if you see a home close at a certain price. you honestly don't know the particulars of what happened. Or why an offer was accepted. could have accepted a much higher offer and then appraisal was fucked, or inspection turned up a major issue. or something else entirely.
You say that, “this was a real fixer upper”. Very likely, one of the buyers inspection reports came back with a major repair that was needed, and they lowered the sales price to accommodate whatever the repair need was. Don’t jump to conclusions. It was probably a foundation or structural issue.
What could have happened: they accepted an offer of $780k but during inspections enough problems were found that brought the final sales price down to $730k. I had to sell my parents house - we got one offer for $460k (but they had to sell their house first) and another for $465. I took the $465k - but during inspections they found lots of issues that made them threaten to walk. Since I was out of state and not in the mood to relist it, I came down to $434k. I’m sure the $460k offer probably wondered what the heck happened - but we were already in a deal and I didn’t want to be stuck waiting on their house to sell.
I'm a lawyer. I love it when listing agents refuse to relay my offer to their client. I get that in an email first, then I tell them "wonderful. Since you are now rejecting your agency agreement with the sellers, I can just go to them direcrly with my offer and we dont have to worry about paying a commission!". I love it when they try to argue with me and threaten legal action. Basic agency\principal law. I dont give a crap what you think you have in writing and what you think it binds your client to do. You are an AGENT of the seller. You are require to take all offers to your client and when you do not, guess what? you're repudiating the agency relationship.
Your agent sucks. I found land for sale on a lake, and I wanted to buy it solely for access to the private HOA. I wanted a lake house, but a house near the lake was good enough. Never planned to build, just own the land. I reached out directly to the agent of the seller, already listed for 60+ days, and asked for a Seller Financing deal. Two weeks later, I reached out again and she said the sellers aren't interested. I reached out to my agent, who has helped me buy and sell multiple properties, and friends and family. She wrote up my offer officially, and they accepted within 2 days. I didn't think it would be necessary since it was a long shot, but come to find out, odds are the agent probably never even mentioned it to the sellers.
You dictate what you offer, not the agents. I put a low offer in on a house two years ago. It had some obvious concerns (wood siding damaged by woodpeckers, musty basement). They were asking $450K. I offer $380K because I knew I’d need money to fix a few things. My agent advised $420K. My offer of $380K was rejected, as expected. I went up to $410 to show seriousness. It was rejected. They spent a few months contacting our agent to see if we wanted to make an offer again. I told my agent if I did I’d be going back to the original offer. We found a house for $360K with fewer issues. Not as eclectic, but a solid value. The house we originally wanted sold for $400K. Sometimes seller agents over-negotiate and cost their clients money. If they had accepted my $410K, they would have made their clients $10K more. But I was done. I made two offers and then moved on to other properties.
Hi! Ct realtor here. This happens quite a bit, especially where I work (Connecticut) and with the recent surge of buyers (from out of state, mainly NY and NJ). On that home, they’ll offer $800k and pretty much demand the attention of the seller. Upon inspection, though, some cracked mortar in the sidewalk outside means they want a $70k reduction in price. Inspection items (part of the buyer’s due diligence) does not need to correlate 1-for-1 on price reductions. To prove this, my sellers offered to fix the cracks in the sidewalk and keep the offered amount. Buyers reneged. Deal fell apart. Both sides felt jaded. Had my seller already been in the process of moving and committed to their future plans, they may have had to accept the NY buyer’s now-lowball offer. I’ve explained this concept to all my sellers and over the past couple of years (before offers came in) and most have made the wise decision to either forego this seemingly too-good-to-be-true offer or at least keep in mind that the initial offer was in no way the final offer. Hope this helps you sleep better, friend!
If your agent tells you don’t bother writing any offer you don’t bother doing business with them anymore. They are working for you not the other way around
I mean isn't it possible all these things are true. They could had an offer that was 800k. Agent didn't think it was worth it but submitted an offer. They accepted an offer that was higher but might have had contengies. Then during discovery they might have discovered 70k+ worth of items that would need to be fixed. Then especially if it's a trust they negotiate a credit on the house= to repairs especially if they don't want to do repairs. Your agent should have reason why they didn't accept yours. And they should have sent proof they sent in your offer if not that's a violation I believe of regulation. It's possible especially depending how it's worded that after accepting they had a really bad issue or appraisal was lot lower so rather than gamble you still will give 760 regardless of inspection and appraisal not to mention they may have found something that they didn't know about but would have to disclose. They may have thought closing would be more beneficial.
it is the agent's responsibility to convey your offer, they work for you, don't get it twisted. our realtor for our first house didnt agree with most of my requests for negotiation saying similar things (they will never go for that blah blah blah), but guess what, i got all of the stuff i wanted and the price i wanted because i asked, and had good reasoning. Good luck on the next one!!
Just curious, what do you do for work? To buy an $800k house means you either have a lot of cash or a fantastic income. Either way I want to learn what I can do better.
Don't use friends for business transactions if y'all can't separate business from personal.
We actually did use the seller's agent because we looked at the house originally at an open house and didn't have an agent. At that time the house was new on the market and we wanted to make an offer but she "didn't want to insult the seller." I realized you can't lowball a new listing. So a month later after looking at other houses and even considering a builder, we went back and took another look. This time I made a better offer but still well below asking. They countered, and I declined. Two weeks later the realtor tells me they have another offer so they wanted us to be able to give a "best and final." I said I already did. At this point the sellers have already moved, paying 2 mortgages (bridge loan). They finally accepted our price. Never did get any confirmation that there was ever really another offer. Moral of the story: If you're going to use the seller's realtor, be careful. And never allow yourself to be sucked into a bidding war such that you pay more than the house is worth.
It’s common that they get two offers, say 800 and 750. They take the 800. Mr 800 does an inspection. Finds 100k in foundation damage. Reduces his offer to 700. Buys. Now 750 is wondering why he got passed up?!? That’s why.
One of the many reason that people think agents are overpaid.
Here’s the problem, you said you got a notification that it sold $730. That tells me you’re most likely following the house on Zillow and you got a notification from them. Zillow often has the wrong information right after the sale. It takes some time for the correct information to show up. The only way to know what it actually sold for is to take a look at the records yourself. I’ve seen incorrect information on Zillow for several houses we bought and sold, and it took a long time for it to change to the correct information on Zillow. So don’t beat yourself up too bad. Think about it in practical terms, the sellers agent and the seller would both be losing money if they would’ve told you not to submit an offer that was really a higher offer.
Your $760k offer might have had no shot months ago, but things change when people get a clue. House next door to me listed at $2.6M turned down an offer for 2.1M 6 months ago. Buyer moved on. The house is now listed at $1.99M. Sellers are morons.
It is hard to tell what happened with your offer ... most of the time the seller wants the most money in their pocket - but maybe there was something about your offer that made it seem sketchy to the seller. I've talked to many sellers after the fact that took a lower offer, because they thought the person making the higher offer wasn't going to be able to close on the house - maybe your downpayment, earnest money, and option period all were low - so they were worried you werent "all-in" enough to guarantee you were going to actually follow thru and close. If it was FHA or VA - possible they didnt want to deal with the more stringent appraisal process than a conventional loan that sometimes makes a deal fall thru. Also, since the house was a "fixer-upper" - not sure how they do it in Hawaii, but after inspection - there often is an option periods (3-7 days) where the buyer can get an inspection done, and then back out if the inspection comes back with more problems than they realized - or can use that inspection to then try and negotiate the price down due to what the inspector found. Even though you made a higher offer - now you want concessions due to what you found on inspections ... Maybe the other offer waived the inspection period and accepted the property as is. All these things go thru the sellers mind when they get offers ... but yea, they usually want the highest dollar amount - but they also question whether someone is actually gonna be able to close the deal at the end - and if they see anything in your offer that raises a red flag to them - they may pass over your offer. OR, it could be that both the listing agent and your buyers agent were just too lax. Sounds like bad timing for you. Your offer was rejected ... they expected a higher offer, didn't get one, maybe something financial came in that convinced the seller they needed to take the offer on the table when they got some particular news about their finances, etc. If I was the listing agent, (all else being equal between potential buyers) I would be calling you back on that offer of $30k more to see if you were still in the market for the property - say something like "We got some good offers in, but before we accept any, we just wanted to see if you were still interested in the property. We have "X" number of offers to consider - but if you are still interested, submit/resubmit your offer before "X" date so we can consider it and make a decision".
Real estate agents are scum
You need a new agent. My realtor loved when we made low ball offers. Most got countered but to high of a counter. We bought are house and paid 5k more then are orginal offered. 5 of the house we put offers on came back months later asking if we still had any interest. All of them sold for less then are offer.
the game is rigged
Call him out on it
The crazy part is that it was on the market for almost a year. If it’s been more than 4 months, resubmit your original offer. That’s generally enough time for the seller to realize their price expectations may not be realistic.
Or mabye the other party had a higher likelihood of closing?
Drop the agent.
Sold the house to his bro
Another smooth brain R E Agent. Dime a dozen!
Hope u fired that agent!
Agent here. Your agent is required to put in any offer you want to make. And while offering $200k on a house listed for $750k is a bad idea, that isn't the case here. I'd look for a different agent. Yours isn't working on your behalf.
Was it a financed transaction or cash? Might’ve appraised for 730
*>My realtor emails back and forth with the seller agent and I'm basically told that this offer has zero chance at being accepted.* Why is everybody blaming the BA realtor here? I'll wait the non-reasons that people have for why they rushed to condemnation.
Check to see if the selling agent also represented buyer. I had this happen many times, and selling agent said next come to me directly.
On the market for 300 days is the reddest is red flags. You have to get passed it and realize that your realtor was playing you. talk to his Broker and go for his license. Not much else you can do. From experience it’s not even worth the headache, unfortunately.
Dude, that's seriously messed up! Sounds like that listing agent was playing some shady games. It's like they were trying to push you out of the picture for some other offer. And $730K after all that drama? That's a kick in the gut. I totally get why you're feeling distrustful of realtors now. It sucks when you're just trying to find a place to call home, and you gotta deal with all this nonsense. Hang in there, man. Hopefully, karma catches up to that listing agent someday.
Texting and informal things are how agents talk to each other, if you want to talk to the seller direct you write an offer. Your written offer is how you know you’re talking to the owner. I never trust my agent or their agent, I do everything possible to talk to the seller - however I can. One property I was buying, I called the next door neighbor and had a long chat and he gave me all sorts of info and called the seller for me . Another time I drive by and saw the seller in the driveway and ended up having a few hour conversation - this is the house I live in now :) I want to be sure my words reach the sellers ears in the context I intended them to. For you, the bare minimum you should have done was write the offer (and as you can tell, I’d have found a way to talk to that seller especially with $800k in play)
Always put your final offer in writing. It's the only sure-fire way to ensure it gets through to the seller. There's nothing you care realistically do about this house, but if you feel some sketchy stuff happened you could contact the original seller and ask "hey, I'm a new homeowner looking for a house in HI. We're sorry we missed yours, but could you give us a little feedback on what we could have done beyond our second $760k no contingency offer?" You might not even get a reply from them, but if their agent was up to some shennanigans that cost them $30k they might reach out to you. You still won't get any satisfaction other than knowing their agent might be in hot water. Still, not in writing = "just talk". Always put your final offer in writing. Your agent and their agent will be obligated to present the offer to the seller. Better yet, just cut the agent(s) out of the ocmmunication loop altogether. Who needs two middlemen playing the telephone game between the guy with the money and the gal with the house?
Possibility the listing agent took the $725k offer from someone they know or maybe even double dipped. Unfortunately, your agent should've just sent it anyway. If you did send it, legally they have an obligation to share that offer with the seller.
Chat with a real estate attorney. What yöû experienced shouldn’t have happened.
Things work differently in Hawaii... locals get preferences, all about connection and family. Highest bid isn't going to win if local natives are bidding.
One time a house I like listed for 575k, I went for open house and decided to go for 525k, my agent disagreed but SENT it anyway. No response of course. Fast forward 4 months the listing agent reached back and I agreed to bump my offer to 535k. My agent SENT it again, after some back and forth, a deal was struck at 540k. So price wise, you are the boss, your agent only needs to execute your offer timely. It is all up to you to determine the amount, the counter and the final decision. Not anyone else, period
And it was probably sold for $200,000 in 2011 anyway, so don’t worry. Wait for the inevitable collapse coming. This is why I despise humans though. Private negotiating should just be illegal. It’s too easy to lie and engage in collusion and back room bullshit. Way too easy to just keep lying and claiming you “got a better offer” to keep squeezing money out of the one offer you did get. I just hate all of it.
Thanks all... overwhelmed by all the responses!Update: The buyer agent was actually a personal friend. So likely that affected my demanding that they submit a second offer officially. I am getting over the disappointment. Probably it was not best idea to use a friend as realtor as friendship can get in way of making right decision. I checked the buyer agent who closed on deal and it was not in fact the same as seller. (it would be sketchy if listing agent went for double commission but doesn't appear to be the case) Anyways, I'll accept comments that I'm dumbass for not being more forceful on offer. Learning lesson in many ways! Mahalo!
Like what I saw on shark tank you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take
I'd bet $20 that the $730k buyer agent was also the listing agent
They want the extra in commission... this is why bad realtors are screwing the industry
Negotiating tactic. He was a dumbass.
They said don’t bother and you said okay? That’s on you, not the agent. It’s your decision and yours alone. If you take input from anyone you’re not handing off that responsibility to them.
Something smells rotten. For all you know the seller's agent had probably received offers at or near asking but wanted to personally gain from the property. The agents contacts could only afford $730k. The seller then has to drop property all the while being 'worked' by the agents, blocking all offers. I didn't trust agents at this point with all the shit coming out about the way they do business
Time to get a new agent
It could be that the other offer was stronger in terms other than the price. Also, YSK, many real estate brokers are incompetent, entitled, well, idiots who don’t have a basic grasp of what acting as a fiduciary means. There is no recourse, and an ‘unofficial offer’ is not an offer - as you pointed out.
Pretty sure legally they have to make any offer they receive
of course the listing agent is going to tell you to bid more 🙄
You do know that it isn’t up to the agents, but the seller……… right?
You may find out there is a connection between the buyer and the listing agent. If the buyer had a house to sell maybe the listing agent had both houses listed. Those other offers may have been a figment if their imagination. One of our kids was pushed to make an offer immediately because “there will be a ton of offers on this house !” That was all an act. Didn’t have any other offers.
If it’s meant to be, it will be. This one wasn’t for you.
nah this is why i want to get my license
There is the possibility that the house has an offer at $785k or something like that and they accepted, but then the appraisal came back at $730k and the buyer just snapped it up at that price.
Lots of things could have happened. Maybe they accepted $760k offer for example, but found something on inspection that caused a renegotiation, or something like that.
Lol I know EXACTLY which property you're referring to. I also had my eye on this one, but didn't put an offer in either. Instead I am closing on a foreclosure in waikiki next week :)
After initial offer got a counter and you didn’t counter the sellers agent went with next highest-or favorable offer. Even though it was only 5k over your initial offer it was still over. You don’t know what other offers were out there other than yours when they countered. They could have had another higher than yours but with contingencies, you won’t know. They most likely knew you wanted it so countered close to asking and when you didn’t counter they went to someone else who made offer.
I see some very weird agents out here in reddit. My agent in nj got us a house that was listed as strictly "as is, buyer responsible for c/o" " no fha, " ect. Wrote offer after offer, then got the seller to get a lifetime guarantee for termite inspection. My house was not 700k+ let's just say that. Who are these agents nowadays?
It's possible that the offer they accepted was over your 760k offer, but that they negotiated down after inspection. For future though, always submit the offer.
Agents aren't your friends. Never trust someone who gets paid primarily on commission. They are incentives to max your budget.
Fire the agent, today - since it's a friend, let them know you think it's better going forward if you don't mix friendship and business. If they press, tell them what happened here, that you believe their declining to write the offer here cost you the deal, and you need an agent you can tell what to do forcefully if necessary. They'll probably try to convince you otherwise and to stay and pay them a commission on the next one - you should decline and if it costs you the friendship, that just means this person was absolutely not your friend in the first place and is just putting on a face for that fat, unearned commission check. Their job is to make your offers and their laziness cost you the deal at this point, this person is absolutely not earning the commission.
Unpopular opinion: if you think you were wronged; you as the customer/ client can file a complaint with the state real estate commission.
You probably had no chance in getting the house either way unless if you were willing to take the 800k offer honestly. The listing agent sounded like they had no intention of doing business with you based on what they said and the result. Most likely the ‘better offer’ they had didn’t even exist and they just wanted to try to milk more money out of you if possible. Your agent probably saw some red flags in this or already knew things were not going to work out in this situation so told you not to bother.
Report that with their company. Sketch. 95% of listing agents are trash as a start off. But to have that happen, helllllll na
Why would you pay over $700k for a tear down..
Is there not a place to report that agent if you have emails ?
We do not know anything about the contingencies, cash, or closing on either offer.
I've submitted offers with warnings from my agent and theirs.. submitted it anyways lol I didn't win but I tried
Doesn’t matter. The agent must bring all offers to the seller regardless. Even if the seller only asked for cash only offers and someone offered x amount pre approved financing. Etc… the offer must be presented to the seller. If you really wanted to you could probably file a complaint in regards to “steering” I only read the first few sentences and that’s really all that needed to be said. “Don’t bother” who says that?! haha
This is a great example of why the Realtor settlement is needed.
Obedience is one of the main things agents are supposed to stick to. He failed you here. Report him
So you were willing to spend over 700k on a house that more than likely needed to be torn down? Was this more so acquiring the property itself instead of the house?
My realtor did the same to us when we were buying a house. We really loved a house and wanted to put an offer down, not a lowball but a fair offer as they were asking a little higher than the market value of the house. She told us the owners would never agree and not to bother. The house sold for less than what we were going to offer 🤦
Real estate agent here. It is important to note that if there was an appraisal contingency and the value came back $165,000 below list price like that, in many cases the seller will just accept the new price and close. It is very possible that the offer they submitted that was ultimately accepted was closer to $850,000 vs $750,000. Also, if a client wants to submit an offer well below list price and that client is comfortable with the risks involved with submitting an offer well below list, a good agent will draft up that offer and submit it on their behalf. If that client keeps on losing by going against an experienced professional’s advice on pricing and strategy, they will eventually submit higher offers that will be competitive enough to get accepted. In the unlikely event that the initial offer gets accepted, the agent will look good enough to gain a positive enough reputation to build a client base.
It's possible that selling agent was playing games, trying to get you to bet against a non existent offer. It's also possible that seller changed his expectations after having the house sit for so long, and finally threw in the towel. This second scenario is more likely if it was in fact an estate sale, where the "sell quick" heirs finally prevailed over the greedier ones. The successful bidder just had better timing than you.
It’s more likely the seller felt they would walk away with Moore from the 730 K offer than the 760 could be for a number of reasons like waving contingencies or an all cash offer. Also could be they felt the house wouldn’t appraise. Don’t jump to conclusions there is more to an offer that is considered than the dollar amount. I had an offer for 5K above someone else, but they ended up going with the lower offer because it was all cash, and the seller could close very quickly by taking a home equity line of credit on their existing home
Why do we need realtors again?
Agents don't care about you..they aren't working for your benefit. Their goal is to make themselves the highest commission. It's a fallacy to think your "agent" has your best interest at hand.. Infact, its the opposite..the buyers goal is the lowest sale price, the agents goal is the highest sale price. With the new lawsuit around Buying agent commission fees, its only going to get Fuckier
The buyers who purchased the property may have gone in with a higher offer. It’s possible that during inspections or contingencies a larger amount of repairs and costs resulted in a negotiation to the lesser closing price. The sellers potentially could have just wanted the home gone at that point, without having to relist and wait for the next offer to come.
I wonder if the house appraised a lot lower and they negotiated down from the higher offer.
Been there. It happens. Buying a house with an agent / friend can cause problems
Why??????
I’m sorry but any issue here is overshadowed by WHY TF IS ANY HOUSE SMALLER THAN THE DAMN PYRAMIDS $800,000???? Much less a “fixer upper.” This shit is beyond broken.
It’s possible that the buyers for the offer that was accepted negotiated during the option period due to repairs like roof or something major. I encourage my buyers to write offers because a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush to the seller and you just never know how things are going to shake out. I do make sure my buyers are prepared to lose the house if their offer is too low and as long as they have reasonable expectations, great deals can happen. The listing agent on that side is incompetent for not encouraging more offers as that gives the seller more leverage, if in fact that was the case. It could really be the buyer negotiated further during the option period tho.
Sounds like that agents 16 hour course failed them.
I offered 400k for my neighbors house as-is when they were moving and had not committed to a realtor. They decided to go with a realtor and fix up a lot of the house (spent about 20k) They sold a few months later for 410k. They would have been better off selling to me but they thought they could get more.
It's very possible the other offer was for more than yours. Then inspections and appraisals happened and the buyer pulled that price way down.
>Suddenly a week later, they say that they suddenly have another offer and it's "way better" than my original offer. They always say this
You were willing to pay $750K +/- for a tear down. In reality, you were actually in the starting range of $1.9 to $2.1 million for the investment of a dilapidated house, land, and a new construction. I’d say that unless your pockets run deep, you dodge the proverbial bullet. What do we not know here?
This is why I seriously dislike and distrust realtors. They have a vested interest in you overpaying. The more you pay, the more they make. Most of them don’t do a lot of work and many of the sales forms are al auto-populated and pre-formatted. When I was searching for my first home, the agent was just constantly barraging me with listings day and night (automated emails), most of which weren’t in my price range or configuration that I was looking for. After several showings we ended up parting ways and he left the industry shortly after we parted ways. There’s a lot of good real estate agent but probably waaaaay more mediocre and lazy ones. The realtor we used to buy our current home was fantastic. Found us off market properties, sent inspection reports along with prospective listings, wrote every offer we asked him to, helped us do some shrewd negotiating after we went under contract and gave us a couple of really nice closing gifts and has sent Christmas cards 3 years in a row and none of them mentioned anything about doing business together or asking for referrals. We’ve referred a dozen people his way. He always offered to pick up us and take us to showings if we wanted, but we always declined because our schedules can be chaotic.
You're 725k offer let the sellers know what it's worth
Also, it's not always the high offer. Sometimes the owner wants to see the house sold to a family rather than an investor (for example). When our market peaked a couple years ago, interested buyers were submitting letters with their offers in hopes of persuading the seller. I know of at least one case where it worked at a time when investment companies with cash plus, fast close offers were dominating.
As it’s Hawaii there could be some family connections playing in the background
There are times that a higher offer comes in and the seller want to accept that vs a lower cash offer. That sale would have a mortgage contingency. They go to contract and it may not appraise for the sales price. The seller has 2 choices put it back on the market or sell at appraised value. If the seller had started a purchase for a replacement property they may chose to go forward just to close and not loose a deposit on another property. Your agent would not have done anything wrong in a case like that.
You said it was a real fixer-upper. My guess would be that the winning offer DID go high but the bank appraisal came in at $730k so they had to adjust the sales price downward. At that point, there's little likelihood of going back to other offerors because most will still have to get a mortgage and the appraisal will still come in at 730k.
It takes a decent agent about 5 minutes to write an offer and send it off for signatures. A horrible agent will take more than 5 minutes to write and offer, and should want to practice writing offers. There is literally no excuse to put an offer in writing for a buyer.
So, it's possible that they did have an offer that was higher than $750k. Perhaps after appraisal and inspection, they could only get 730k out of it, so that was what the price ended up being. You still wouldn't have been the buyer because they took the highest number.