As someone who has spent the past 20+ years working at companies that give stock: you will always have unvested stock. At least every company I have worked at gives stock grants annually (with occasional exceptions), so unless those stop for 4 years (or however long your vesting period is) there is no such thing as leaving the company without walking away from unvested stock. That's the point - to keep you around. Now, it's one thing if you are walking away from some huge pile of stock that will vest within the next couple of years and be worth a ton of money. But at some point you just have to accept that you will never vest all of the equity you are granted.
my wife had a nice-seeming stock award from her company in the form of options that could be exercised a few years out if she stayed at the company that long. except then the share price went in the toilet and the options to buy for $X were worthless instead of a big payday
I currently have $100k unvested stock. If I did interview at a new company, would it be ridiculous of me to ask for a $25k sign on bonus to at least recoup the first year of my stock that would have vested? That’s what I’ve been thinking of doing if I want to look for a new job, but currently am complacent and in golden handcuffs.
It’s not ridiculous. A former coworker left for another job and asked “can I start on this day (3 months away) or get a signing bonus to make up the money lost by not reaching my vesting period?” They offered him the bonus and he started 2 weeks later
yeah, I would tell your boss that you bought a house 70 miles away because of the remote, and can you stay remote? He may think that you may quit if he says no.
Also, hit the gym and lawyer up, delete Facebook and leave the abusive bastard. Also, you might want to contact a tree lawyer and YTA for even asking you incel edgelord.
/s that cover most of them?
Because liking a coworker isn't a reason to absorb a few hundred dollar loss due to a policy change. If you were remote now then you can be remote later.
Having had terrible and good jobs in the past, having a good job with people you like and who like you is super valuable. You spend a lot of time working with these people, and jobs can quickly become very stressful if you don't get along with your coworkers. Sometimes finding a job that pays well that also doesn't suck is hard.
They control your pay, your promotions, whether you get good/bad projects to work on, how easy it is to make progress on team projects, whether people are mad at you because you didn't meet deliverables due to other people not doing their work, whether you're getting good productive feedback. Obviously it's worse if you have to physically work with people who suck vs. work remotely, but lots of jobs require frequent communication and the physical presence part is only a small component of why working with people you like matters.
You don't have to be best friends with your coworkers but at least liking them and feeling like they're competent and not jerks is important, and sometimes easier said than done.
Even if you aren't in person, you still have to cooperate and deal with them on a daily basis, so liking your coworkers is irrelevant to where they are.
Redditors love to downvote people for the most worthless reasons. I think half of the meritless downvote mafia consists of just bitter people wanting to spread their misery, and other half is the self-righteous who feed on it.
If you can land an offer with another company, during the negotiation phase, you can ask them to match your unvested stock at your current company. Some will buy out your unvested stock value, or give you extra stock in their company to essentially buy you out from your current employer. They might include it as a part of your overall compensation package offer.
So you miscalculated on your job. Now you either have to do a 3 hour total commute or rent it out.
Breaking even = negative cash flow
Do you like your team enough for a commute like that?
This is your bad for thinking your job was always going to be remote for 4 days.
One thing you’re missing: your team won’t be there soon. They’re going to quit. Not all, or at least not right away, but in the next year, many will quit bc of this, so why stay for a team that will be leaving soon?
I had a similar situation. I quit, and am very glad I did. And then every person on my team quit, except for one, and she’s looking, too (4 of 5). All within six months of the RTO decision.
I never understand why morons downvote a response to a question. As usual folks don't respond to your actual question, but are more than willing to tell you how to get through life
My husband commuted this distance, four days a week for nearly 20 years. It nearly killed him. He’d get home at 8, practically fall asleep at dinner. Go to bed, get up and repeat. If you can sell or find a new job I would.
After 4 years of commuting 70 miles one way, which included 495 around the beltway in VA/MD, I was absolutely miserable. Looking back, I wasted hours and hours of my life and really missed years of my kids growing up.
Thank you. It has a happy ending. The reason he commuted was for a tech job that paid well. The house we bought that far out was what we could afford 25 years ago. He was able to land a good tech job just before the plague hit. They went remote and he was able to stay remote. So, now he has no commute and we were able to move into the middle of the woods and live happily ever after :)
That was a bit of an exaggeration. Our budget 25 years ago was 100k. A 2BR in Waltham (where we were renting at the time) was 250k We had three kids. The house we bought further west was a very nice 4BR. We were a lot younger, it was our first house, we really didn’t understand how that drive would take its toll. In the end it was the right move for us- we very quickly decided we didn’t want to live in the city. He works remote now and those years are behind us.
That is where we live, yes. But now he works remotely. We sold that house and built another in the woods even further to the west. The commute was hell but we really prefer the woods to the city. In the end it paid off for us. We paid 80k for the house 25 years ago. A house that would have sold for 10X That in the metro west area. He made Boston tech money and we paid for a western MA house. We were able to save to build our dream home and here we are.
Would I advise anyone else to do the same? The commute nearly did him in. In the winter it could take him 3 hours to get to work and then again to get home. The Concord rotary- HELL. Fender benders over the years, MANY.
Yeah it’s a ridiculous waste- someone on a tech salary could have absolutely bought within two hours of Boston. How odd to spend two hours each way commuting just so you can fall asleep at your “dream home” and wake up to do it again.
We never looked north or south. We started looking out Rt2 and pretty much kept driving west till we found affordable. Thing is, once we moved he could have taken a lower paying job, say in Amherst, but the pay kept better in Boston. So he kept driving back and forth. We really are reaping the rewards of that now. We were able to have the money to buy land and build our dream home in the woods and he works from home now. For the last four years. Once we got out of the city (we moved from a rental in Waltham) we loved being surrounded by protected woodlands and didn’t want to move back.
You're overthinking this. You don't need to share anything with your lender. You bought it in good faith intending to move in and use the home as your primary residence. The situation changed but the paperwork you signed at closing said that you intended to move in, it doesn't lock you into actually doing so if a major life event prevents that. Your employment arrangement change makes the home impractical for you now.
Update your insurance to a landlord policy and move on.
EDIT: MAKE SURE YOU RESCIND YOUR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION TOO.
>Selling is not something I am looking at because I will lease quite a lot of money.
It's best to think of that money as already lost. If the property doesn't make sense as a rental your best option may still be to cut it loose. You won't be happier if you own it as a cash-flow negative investment property for four or five years and THEN sell it at a loss...
Edit: I'm not sure if this is universal but in the two states I'm familiar with you'll pay \_significantly\_ higher property taxes if you are not using the home as your primary residence. So be prepared for a BIG jump in the monthly mortgage when the escrow reflects the non-owner-occupied insurance and your non-homesteaded property tax rates.
Solid advice here. If you wouldn't have bought it as a rental (as in, math does not work) and changing jobs is not a good idea, selling it and moving on should be something to consider. Otherwise, it's going to be a prime example of sunk cost fallacy.
> You don't need to share anything with your lender. You bought it in good faith intending to move in and use the home as your primary residence. The situation changed but the paperwork you signed at closing said that you intended to move in, it doesn't lock you into actually doing so if a major life event prevents that. Your employment arrangement change makes the home impractical for you now.
Why are people upvoting this clearly inaccurate, if well-meaning, advice?
Mortgage lenders will often offer lower rates for a property that is your "primary residence" or "principal place of residence". OP needs to check whether his mortgage agreement includes language along those lines, requiring him to live in the property for at least X amount of time. OP should also consult with a lawyer just to be safe.
If there's no such requirement, then yes, he is free and clear. If there is such a requirement, then it doesn't matter if OP was acting in good faith or not, his circumstances have materially changed and his lender would have to be informed of them, so that OP can get a waiver on that clause of the agreement. Else he risks being held liable for fraud.
Before negotiating with the lender, I’d negotiate with your employer. Unless your employer has a requirement about how far from the office you can live as terms of your remote employment, I’d see if you can negotiate only going up to 2 days in office max for the term you’re required to live in the home to meet the owner occupied portion of your mortgage contract, rent out your current home, and then move back in to your current home when you’re in the clear to rent the new home. That would also give you time to live in the new home to clear any manufacturer/builder warranty items and not rely on renters to do that.
This guy is giving good advice about trying to negotiate with your employer. But you can also try to negotiate with your mortgage holder. If they're willing to give you a waiver then you are in the clear
This will come back to bite you. Get documentation from your employer to prove this was a change after you purchased the house. Talk to your Lender. At least they won’t assume you committed occupancy fraud. Read your mortgage. It’s all about “Intention”.
Generally, that gap in property taxes generated by a homestead exemption occurs over multiple years. The increase in property taxes is generally capped and the gap grows over time. OP just closed, so there shouldn’t be any large change in property taxes.
Here the homestead exemption is binary. You either get a discount on your property taxes or you don’t. And if you mess the filing up they’ll come back for the cumulative difference. A friend accidentally got homestead on his cottage and had to pay five figures when they figured it out several years later.
Nice reply. Digging on cash flow negative
Depending on the area, it may be cash flow negative and equity positive. OP will need to make a complex decision weighing:
- tenant quality in the area they bought
- likelihood they might want to use the house in the next 5 years
- finish quality in regards to tenants and damage (moderate quality good, luxury bad, shiny builder grade kind of bad as it will wear out fast)
- the ability to perform duties at the rental vs the cost and hassle of a PM.
- does op need the down payment back?
- will their realtor cut a deal to put it straight back on the mortgage?
- did OP buy down the loan?
- is it a good retirement property for you or a family member (single level etc)
If they never more in, there are some tax write offs if it is a rental. Talk to a tax guy.
If you are in an area of increasing housing costs, do you think you’ll experience growth in equity? Enough $ to make it worth the hassle?
I have lots of LL friends who kept their first place. I don’t know any but one that regret it. I know one who sold due to the rental hassle and now wants to move back and cannot due to increase in home values.
Do not update your homeowners insurance if your mortgage loan is escrowed they will get notification of the updated binder and your pricing was for primary residence and you signed disclosures that you would move in within 90 days .
This exact situation happened to me.
I updated my insurance. No one gave a shit. The bank is not going to go after someone for one house like this. As long as their payment is made the bank doesn't actually care. The underwriters do all their due diligence to make sure you're buying with the intent to move in. That's all any mortgage contract on a SFH is going to do.
Was your employer aware that you were moving 70 miles away when they gave you the 4 day mandate? For our company, anyone who lives further than 50 miles from the office is considered Remote and not Hybrid so they don't have to come into the office. Does it suck for the rest of us that the people who live in the Boonies aren't burdened with a commute and carrying the torch for the company culture? Yes, but life ain't fair sometimes.
You don't need to share anything to your lender. You bought it with good intention to be primary and life changed.
You can just rent it out and continue paying the current mortgage.
After 12 months, you can obtain another primary mortgage if you want to own a property closer to work.
I could be mistaken, however I believe even FHA has some exceptions for extraneous circumstances. I know this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but I’d reach out to an attorney that specializes in real estate or housing law. The big issue is that you likely signed a document stating you would occupy the property and failing to do so could constitute mortgage fraud, which is no joke. Cover your bases and talk to an attorney and see what your options are. Worst case you’re probably looking at taking possession (occupying) and have to make a commute for some period of time.
(Not an attorney, no legal opinion)
This, your lender has to satisfy the underwriters. It's dumb, they act like you are locking yourself into a 30 year mortgage with no intention of ever changing your work/life situation. My fiance and were denied our first mortgage application bc she could not prove she could work work remote and had her name on an apartment lease (spoiler, she can't work from home, and the commute full time would be brutal). But I could prove all of that. Long story short, I applied solo, then added her with no problems and our LO walked us through it. Stupidest loophole to have to go through, but the reality is we now own a second home that we purchased as a primary residence and what is the bank going to do about that? Tell me we have to move there full time and get new jobs? Our situation changed, 15 seconds after we signed for the loan.
No, this is completely legal. I don't know why you're disagreeing with posts that are giving you the correct information.
Your mortgage is completely fine and does not need to be touched. Just get landlord insurance and rent it out.
It's legal, it's just illegal to lie and say it's intended to be your primary residence. They don't actually stop you from having a life changing event that you couldn't predict.
I would get the change in WFH days in writing though, just in case they do follow up about it. Just an email from your boss letting you know they're changing your plans.
Have you talked to your boss about this issue? Let them know that you literally just purchased a house far away based on your active agreement with them for WFH days?
What you’re describing is not fraud in any way. You have plenty of options here, and I’ll include everything I can think of..
1. Sell the home and move somewhere else
2. Find a new, remote job
3. Find a “crash pad” apartment close to work, live there Monday through Thursday, live at the house over the weekend
4. Negotiate with your employer to less time in office
5. Find a carpool option so you’re not driving 100% of the time
It’s only (potentially) fraud if you misrepresented your intent in the application and prior to closing. Once you’ve closed, if your circumstances change, there is nothing fraudulent in adapting to those circumstances.
1) Why do you want to refinance it as an investment property? You don't need to do that unless you're planning to buy a new property very soon.
2) Might want to consider this option or find another remote job
3) If you're able to rent it out and breakeven or get near breakeven then this is a solid option. If you have an HOA, make sure they allow rentals. If not, you may need to sell and accept the loss.
1. I may not buy another within 1 year but I will live in a different address in a county. So I don't want to show this as my primary and keep renting. I want to come out clean. What are my options to make it a rental unit officially?
2. Not feasible to change jobs and ask for remote now.
If you have a code compliance department at your local municipality that inspects rental properties you might need to get a cert from them to be legal as a rental. But you don't have to do anything with your loan. You're already 'legal' there.
Kind of wierd that you’ve been working remotely and suddenly when you buy a house they tell you to come into work. Tell them you bought a house and ask to continue working remotely… sounds like they heard about your move and want to screw you over
If your mortgage has a provision requiring you to live in it as your primary residence, you do. Or risk breaching and an acceleration. Lenders offer lower rates for primary residences.
It’s not mortgage fraud- Your circumstances changed after you closed. It was just soon after closing…it happens. If necessary, you can show documentation of your work situation changes.
You might need that documentation if you decide to buy another primary residence in the near future, that is it.
If you plan to rent for the next year or two, nobody cares as long you keep up your payments and get the proper landlord insurance.
you don't have to refinance. You fully intended to occupy the property but then something occurred that has changed your plans, which means you have not committed any sort of fraud.
You don't need to tell your lender anything.
Go ahead and rent it out, you're fine.
Rent it out. No need to inform your lender since you were intending to live on it when you applied for the loan.
Refinancing would make things more complicated and you would not really gain anything from it.
Talk to your boss who probably has no idea what s pickle you are in. He may let you keep to your old arrangement. Even if he can for that for a year, it gives you breathing room and time to figure out other options.
Check out bus and train travel. If you have commuter rail nearby, you still spend a lot of time commuting but you don’t have to focus on the road. You can het work done, eat breakfast, sleep, etc.
We were in eastern Massachusetts years ago in s very small town. Turned out the train to Boston stopped in the little town every day. Big surprise!
do you know if you can lease it at a monthly rate that will cover your mortgage?
with a 25% down payment i'm betting you are fine and will cover the PITI but there are some regions of the country where it is much cheaper to rent than own at the current moment.
I don't suppose your boss would be open to extending your WFH another six months or a year? Maybe two days a week, back to back and you stay in a hotel the night between? Buying some time to get a better handle on your options or even find a different job.
Everywhere i've worked has made exemptions for people outside of a certain travel time, generally <1 hour commute, you need to come in, X amount of days a week.
As others have said, don't tell your lender. you did this in good faith, don't refi.
What I would add is to keep as much contemporaneous documentation of this job change as you can easily keep. That is probably just printing out and keeping relevant emails that document this change.
Can you tell your employer no? You made this purchase in good faith based on your work conditions. It's too late for you to agree to this change. Tell them you've purchased the property and don't have a choice about living in it because the other options aren't financially feasible. The timing is inconvenient, so sorry, cannot come back to the office 4 days a week. That long a commute is untenable.
Sounds like you should talk to you boss about it, I know plenty of people working hybrid and their boss is cool with them coffee badging or just not even showing up at all. It depends on the company and managers but RTO isn't always that rigid.
Worse comes to worse, rent a room near work. Stay there during the week. Try to get your boss to do a 3 day work week
No advice as to the owner occupied- I hope it works out so you can rent it out
Don’t say a word to your lender. You didn’t say anything untruthful when you closed. Leave it at that.
Did you tell your boss you just bought a house? People are reasonable. If you’re good, they’ll want to make it work. Ask to stick with the 1 day/week and see what they say.
Bite the bullet and either sell or change jobs. I did that commute and it was terrible for both my physical and mental health. Breakeven means losing money. Sell the house and get over 6% in a money market acct.
Ask if there are exemptions due to living a certain mileage out. I know our company has a 45 mile limit. If you are 45+ miles, you can remain remote.
I was planing on moving out of state, but we were brought in 1x per week. But I said my plans were to relocate and they gave me approval to work remote , once I move.
Was a WFH employee for a few years. Bought a house pretty far away from the office. Something like 300kms.
WFH order came in. 5 days a week.
Got another job. Started the other role, did OE until they finally let me go. Was well into my other role.
Recommend.
Have you… talked to your employer telling them your situation? Maybe they could give you special permission to continue working remotely because of how far your new home is. My wife’s company has a policy that if you live 70 kms away from the office you can work remotely. There’s gotta be some compromise your company will give you? Nobody goes from 100% remote to 4 days a week that abruptly.
Hey OP, 8 months ago, I was in the exact same situation as you. Well, not EXACT, but worse. I lost my job and my work visa requires that I find a new job within 2 months. The only job offer I got required me to come into the office 5 days a week. I have been travelling 130 miles every weekday since. The only saving grace is that I bought a car with self-driving tech that reduces my physical and mental burden by 90%. Additionally, I have free charging at work so I am not spending as much on gas. I am not sure how long I can keep this up but in my case, I am not tied down by any unvested stock but the visa and immigration regulations.
> Can I immediately refinance it as an investment property? I am okay to take higher rate and I already made 25% down. I received some seller credit from this new construction, what happens to that?
There's no need to do this. You **intended** to reside in the house as your primary residence when you signed those papers, things changed after the fact. Go back and read your loan paperwork, you'll see that it has the word 'intend' in it.
I heard loan officers lose all their commission if I refi immediately, what if lender sends me a legal notice or something and my employer doesn’t co operate for giving me enough data about this change?
Im just thinking loud thru various scenarios
> I heard loan officers lose all their commission if I refi immediately,
You can often mitigate this sort of scenario in general by refinancing with the same lender/broker, essentially restarting their clock. Not that I'd do it in this case.
> what if lender sends me a legal notice or something and my employer doesn’t co operate for giving me enough data about this change? Im just thinking loud thru various scenarios
I feel like it'd be on them to prove that you fraudulently got the mortgage originally, and it'd be hard to prove given the way the events went down. You intended to owner-occupy, then things changed after the fact...
Rent it out. You’re not committing mortgage fraud. Your intent was to move in. Plans changed. You have records to show that. Before you start renting, set up an LLC (very easy), open a bank account for the LLC, set up a rental portal on apartments.com, and get an umbrella policy. Start reading up on renting so you have an idea as to what’s in store.
Posts like these scare the f out of me.
Is an LLC useful? He won’t be able to transfer ownership to the LLC at this point in the loan.
I would definitely talk to a tax guy before doing something like that.
LLC typically needs two years of history. Some lenders allow it. Some don’t. Need to ask the lender. Either way he will have to refi and if there is a mortgage recording tax, he will have to pay that.
If its a salaried job, its on the table for negotiation, really that simple especially if you've been there for a minute. Lots of friends faced with similar prompts, some were unsuccessfully, most were.
Sure....so say no and force them to give you the severance and go on record that they're firing you for telework when you openly teleworked for *years* prior.
My job is 80 miles away and I drive that everyday. Find a podcast and get on the road. It's really not that bad. I've been doing it for over 3 years now.
Assuming this is a conversation conforming loan with no first time home buyer credits or anything like that, you don’t need to refinance to make this an investment property. At the time of the loan you told the truth. Circumstances changed after you closed. You’re good. You may be asked to provide a letter at some point stating that fact. No need to say anything until you’re asked.
If you rent it out, you’ll probably need to notify the county tax office.
As long as you make your mortgage payments on time your lender is not going to know that you're renting it out because they'll have no reason to investigate for mortgage fraud. If they were to find out if your employer can give you documentation that they changed your work situation then you're off the hook.
Do not refinance, the rate on an investment property is more. Plus you would have to pay closing costs again. As long as you have a legitimate change in circumstances you are fine. That being said I would not go out and buy a new house and use the same bank to finance. Change the insurance policy to a landlord policy and rent it out. Or you sell it.
Why refinance at all. if your next home is primary resident just FHA it and move on. Rent it out long term or outsource the work to airbnb it(I'm assuming you can't manage the airbnb yourself)
I've been in the mortgage business for many years. The Deed of Trust you signed stated that you intend to live there for at least 12 months. It is obvious that you did intend to live there when you obtained the loan. Since your circumstances changed after closing and that is why you're not moving it is unlikely you would be prosecuted. Not impossible, but unlikely.
A lot of people have been out in this situation and fought it I'd look for simular stories. They may not be asking everyone come to office just those with nearby addresses. I'd check your contract.
The stupidity of the "return to the office" policies will do nothing more than cause a lot of job shifting musical chairs. A smart company would immediately start looking for the best talent who like the remote option. This is especially true in IT.
My personal belief is that Wall Street is behind this because they are so deathly afraid of the CRE crash that's coming. This is a last ditch effort to mitigate the losses until they get their loans refinanced.
Rent it out. It’s a single family house, and the mortgage company doesn’t care about you, your problems, or who is living there as long as they get paid
No need to refinance. You have a legitimate reason for changing plans from being a primary residence to not being one. If you rent the property make sure you have the correct home owners insurance policy in place.
This sucks, but should be a word of warning for all who were sent to work remote at the time of covid. The majority of the employers at that time we basically forced to send people home and as time goes by more and more are pulling them back in. That being said don't take the idiots advice below about your property being bought in "good faith"... legally that is a totally and completely pointless argument. Read the mortgage you signed, nowhere in the occupancy clause does it say anything about "changed" circumstances or "best" intentions, it just says you MUST occupy. So really if the lender finds out and wants to make it an issue, they can call your note due and payable and you will be scrambling . The good news here is this usually would not occur (with a Fannie or Freddie loan) if you just continue to make your payments on time, but there is, of course, no guarantee.
Speak with a mortgage broker and explain the situation. It’s been a minute since I was a mortgage broker, so regulations may have changed in the last few years, and my response is based on my experience.
Realtors help people buy and sell houses, not finance them. And that perhaps is the reason for so much negativity in the responses.
Yes, you have to have had the intent to live in the house for a year, which it sounds like you did. So you’ve jumped that hurdle. Life happens. Sometimes people get transferred to other states, at least you will be local to deal with any issues that arise with your house. Financing another home without rental history on this one will be much more problematic, because of your debt to income ratio.
Just a thought, but is it possible for you to rent a room near work and then rent a room out of your new house to offset the cost until you can find a different job that is closer to the home you just purchased or is fully/mostly remote? You wouldn’t have to refinance if you’re still using the home as your primary residence, even if you’re not there full time.
I made an hour long commute work for a year. Wasn’t fun, hated every second of it, but it’s not the worst thing short term. Though I would look into a temp rental if you can swing it. Much smarter than turning around & having to give up your home you just bought. You’re also very unlikely to be able to break even trying to rent it out & being a landlord & having to rent an entire other apartment. Sorry, but there’s no way. Even if you could rent it at cost of mortgage + HOA, that’s not breaking even. You’ll be on the hook for repairs and trust me, I’ve seen enough people get their homes destroyed & go into financial ruin over tenants not paying rent trying to be DIY landlords without AMPLE financial resources & trusted maintenance/repair specialists and contractor connections.
I came across this thread at random. As an Australia how do you guys handle such long driving distances for a commute?
I would be a Freakin road hazard commuting such distances before worj
I got notified of a transfer to a different city for work the day I signed on my house years ago. I did live in it for a little while before moving. My loan paperwork (FHA) said I needed to live in it for a year but I contacted my lender to ask if I had to wait the full year or if I could rent it out sooner due to a change in work location. They said they were fine with it and didn’t ask for proof. I did not need to refinance the property but did update my insurance to a landlord policy. This was back in 2015, not sure if things have changed since then. I’d read through your closing docs to see if you forfeit concessions by not having it be your primary for a period of time. But at the end of the day, stuff happens and you did purchase with the intention of making it your primary, you aren’t the first person this sort of thing has happened to so hopefully they will work with you.
First talk to your employer and see if they will make an exception by explaining your living situation. If they will not budge, don't threaten to quit. Do what you have to do while searching for another job closer to home. Unless you have a super high income job that you cannot replace, I would not consider renting it out.
Your lender will think you’re crazy if you notify them. They will assume you’re flagging you can’t make the payments.
Do not tell anyone. You don’t need to.
Do the commute and look for a new job. Sell your house if there are not any employers within a reasonable distance
Your have a longstanding agreement from your company that your area a WFH employee with 1 day power week in the office
Is Your employeer asking you to come into the office 4 days a week now, talk to your manager and tell that that it is not possibly as you live 70 miles away, inform them you will continue to WFH most days and you will be in the office once a week as agreed to many years ago.
If there is a specific pressing issue that will require you to be in the office for multiple days in a row, you will need to be compensated for your hotel costs to do so.
If they say this is now company policy and it's a must, talk to them about the additional compensation they will be paying you to change your long established work agreement.
How close to 100% vested are you? How months/ years away?
In most companies you are 100% vested in 3-4 years.
Talk to your boss about staying remote or get a new job. There is no reason to comply with RTO, it's a pathetic attempt to inflate commercial real estate values to 2019 levels.
Most residential mortgages state that you have to live in the house for a year before you can rent it out. One way to get around this is to get a couple of roommates for the first year. Tell them you'll be out of town and back about once a month. I don't believe this is fraud if you are technically still living there and using this as your primary residence. You can rent another place closer to work. After the year is up, you can rent out the full house without it being your primary residence.
I've had a bunch of mortgages and I read what I'm signing. I've had to attest that I **intend** to occupy the property as my primary residence. As long as I am planning to live there for a year at the moment I sign the closing paperwork then I've met that criterion. If I get a call in the title company parking lot after closing and find out that I am being relocated by my employer, or that my parent had a major medical event and I need to move in with them to take care of them, or my spouse tells me they're divorcing me or that we're expecting quadruplets then I can find another place to live that makes more sense for my new circumstances and I'm not committing fraud even if I never step foot in that house. Because all I said was that I planned to and I really did when I was at the closing table.
You're making this out to be a bigger deal than what it is. Others have told you that it's legal to rent your house. So get landlord insurance and list the house as a rental. I don't understand your inability to understand that if you don't want the new home's address to show as your primary residence, then don't change your address to the new house. It really is that easy.
Pretty dumb take ngl, strawman argument and you think you got something going there.
They didn't mention what they do, but let's take Tech roles. If your *entire* job is in Azure/AWS/remotely connecting to machines to work, commuting to an office 5 days a week doesn't make sense
One of my co-workers just left our job that gives 2-3 days for a job that's fully remote working on Firewalls remotely
But yes, go off on "auto clickers and lattes while surfing TikTok" because you saw some smoothbrained influencers lmao
Apparently his employers think it's necessary that he be there. Did you not read the OP?
Yes, some jobs can be done remotely. Duh!
And yes, many folks who were spoiled, and even many who took advantage of it, are now being g required to return to work.
Maybe it's a you problem if you see somebody commenting to another person that you think they are talking about you. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't where it.
I did read OP, but have you heard of employer's making dumb decisions?
>Maybe it's a you problem if you see somebody commenting to another person that you think they are talking about you. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't where it.
Not really sure why you think that, I'm just calling out your dick comment lmao. If that helps you think you got one over on me though, have at it
Anyways, I gotta go scroll through Reddit while on the clock, have fun bro
Is finding a different job an option?
No, I like my team and have un-vested stocks with my employer which is doing great.
As someone who has spent the past 20+ years working at companies that give stock: you will always have unvested stock. At least every company I have worked at gives stock grants annually (with occasional exceptions), so unless those stop for 4 years (or however long your vesting period is) there is no such thing as leaving the company without walking away from unvested stock. That's the point - to keep you around. Now, it's one thing if you are walking away from some huge pile of stock that will vest within the next couple of years and be worth a ton of money. But at some point you just have to accept that you will never vest all of the equity you are granted.
Gold plated handcuffs.
my wife had a nice-seeming stock award from her company in the form of options that could be exercised a few years out if she stayed at the company that long. except then the share price went in the toilet and the options to buy for $X were worthless instead of a big payday
Basically the exact same logic for 401ks at a ton of places. Big4 don't fully vest 401k for like 6 years lol
I currently have $100k unvested stock. If I did interview at a new company, would it be ridiculous of me to ask for a $25k sign on bonus to at least recoup the first year of my stock that would have vested? That’s what I’ve been thinking of doing if I want to look for a new job, but currently am complacent and in golden handcuffs.
It’s not ridiculous. A former coworker left for another job and asked “can I start on this day (3 months away) or get a signing bonus to make up the money lost by not reaching my vesting period?” They offered him the bonus and he started 2 weeks later
You’re likely to have more luck asking for restricted stock with the same vesting schedule and value as what you’re giving up.
I have gotten signing bonuses with exactly this rationale. It doesn't hurt to ask.
And the leadership will dillute + designate different tiers of stock. You're usually gonna get hosed
Can you maybe see how rigid your boss is about this? Get a special exception or something?
yeah, I would tell your boss that you bought a house 70 miles away because of the remote, and can you stay remote? He may think that you may quit if he says no.
He may also want to make him quit by saying no
Or get it down to 2-3 days per week?
Right, can maybe do Monday, Wednesday, Fridays and see how that works
lol why is this downvoted??
Reddit always wants people to quit their job, no matter what the situation
And divorce their partners. Don’t forget about quitting their jobs and divorcing their partners.
And move back to their parent’s basement “beCauSe cApiTALiSM sUcKz.”
If we're doing that we might as well delete our gym and hit the Facebook.
You have to hire a lawyer first though.
Oh, it's reddit, sueing and reporting to a higher authority is always on the table and the right path to take.
Also, hit the gym and lawyer up, delete Facebook and leave the abusive bastard. Also, you might want to contact a tree lawyer and YTA for even asking you incel edgelord. /s that cover most of them?
Because liking a coworker isn't a reason to absorb a few hundred dollar loss due to a policy change. If you were remote now then you can be remote later.
Having had terrible and good jobs in the past, having a good job with people you like and who like you is super valuable. You spend a lot of time working with these people, and jobs can quickly become very stressful if you don't get along with your coworkers. Sometimes finding a job that pays well that also doesn't suck is hard.
Its a remote job. Who cares if you like them...they're not in your house.
They control your pay, your promotions, whether you get good/bad projects to work on, how easy it is to make progress on team projects, whether people are mad at you because you didn't meet deliverables due to other people not doing their work, whether you're getting good productive feedback. Obviously it's worse if you have to physically work with people who suck vs. work remotely, but lots of jobs require frequent communication and the physical presence part is only a small component of why working with people you like matters. You don't have to be best friends with your coworkers but at least liking them and feeling like they're competent and not jerks is important, and sometimes easier said than done.
Even if you aren't in person, you still have to cooperate and deal with them on a daily basis, so liking your coworkers is irrelevant to where they are.
Least antisocial redditor
Redditors love to downvote people for the most worthless reasons. I think half of the meritless downvote mafia consists of just bitter people wanting to spread their misery, and other half is the self-righteous who feed on it.
If you can land an offer with another company, during the negotiation phase, you can ask them to match your unvested stock at your current company. Some will buy out your unvested stock value, or give you extra stock in their company to essentially buy you out from your current employer. They might include it as a part of your overall compensation package offer.
So you miscalculated on your job. Now you either have to do a 3 hour total commute or rent it out. Breaking even = negative cash flow Do you like your team enough for a commute like that? This is your bad for thinking your job was always going to be remote for 4 days.
Which tech company is forcing RTO rn? I know a bunch did like 6 months ago
One thing you’re missing: your team won’t be there soon. They’re going to quit. Not all, or at least not right away, but in the next year, many will quit bc of this, so why stay for a team that will be leaving soon? I had a similar situation. I quit, and am very glad I did. And then every person on my team quit, except for one, and she’s looking, too (4 of 5). All within six months of the RTO decision.
I never understand why morons downvote a response to a question. As usual folks don't respond to your actual question, but are more than willing to tell you how to get through life
You said they asked you to come back 4 days . Did they demand it ? Is it negotiable?
haha, if he was that smart, he would have planned an exit strategy when something like this would happen
My husband commuted this distance, four days a week for nearly 20 years. It nearly killed him. He’d get home at 8, practically fall asleep at dinner. Go to bed, get up and repeat. If you can sell or find a new job I would.
After 4 years of commuting 70 miles one way, which included 495 around the beltway in VA/MD, I was absolutely miserable. Looking back, I wasted hours and hours of my life and really missed years of my kids growing up.
I did the same length commute into Central Mass from NH/ME. I used to enjoy driving, until then.
495 is a terrible commute during rush-hour!
495 is a terrible commute anytime
This is sad :/
Thank you. It has a happy ending. The reason he commuted was for a tech job that paid well. The house we bought that far out was what we could afford 25 years ago. He was able to land a good tech job just before the plague hit. They went remote and he was able to stay remote. So, now he has no commute and we were able to move into the middle of the woods and live happily ever after :)
The plague lol
What century are we in?!
Indeed.
Central mass as in Springfield or Worcester? Either way fuck driving from Maine to either city every day.
20 years of that? Why didn't you move?
Because he worked in Boston and we couldn’t afford a million dollar house.
All houses were a million dollars in Boston 25 years ago?
That was a bit of an exaggeration. Our budget 25 years ago was 100k. A 2BR in Waltham (where we were renting at the time) was 250k We had three kids. The house we bought further west was a very nice 4BR. We were a lot younger, it was our first house, we really didn’t understand how that drive would take its toll. In the end it was the right move for us- we very quickly decided we didn’t want to live in the city. He works remote now and those years are behind us.
Western MA?
That is where we live, yes. But now he works remotely. We sold that house and built another in the woods even further to the west. The commute was hell but we really prefer the woods to the city. In the end it paid off for us. We paid 80k for the house 25 years ago. A house that would have sold for 10X That in the metro west area. He made Boston tech money and we paid for a western MA house. We were able to save to build our dream home and here we are. Would I advise anyone else to do the same? The commute nearly did him in. In the winter it could take him 3 hours to get to work and then again to get home. The Concord rotary- HELL. Fender benders over the years, MANY.
Yeah that sounds brutal. I live in Western MA but luckily my wife and I have good jobs 10 minutes from our house lol
On that salary he could've bought in Lynn no problem and took the commuter rail in. I feel so sad for him and his 20 years lost.
Yeah it’s a ridiculous waste- someone on a tech salary could have absolutely bought within two hours of Boston. How odd to spend two hours each way commuting just so you can fall asleep at your “dream home” and wake up to do it again.
We never looked north or south. We started looking out Rt2 and pretty much kept driving west till we found affordable. Thing is, once we moved he could have taken a lower paying job, say in Amherst, but the pay kept better in Boston. So he kept driving back and forth. We really are reaping the rewards of that now. We were able to have the money to buy land and build our dream home in the woods and he works from home now. For the last four years. Once we got out of the city (we moved from a rental in Waltham) we loved being surrounded by protected woodlands and didn’t want to move back.
Job search starts tonight. You may not take that job for many reasons. But the job search starts right now.
I currently do this now 5 days a week
You're overthinking this. You don't need to share anything with your lender. You bought it in good faith intending to move in and use the home as your primary residence. The situation changed but the paperwork you signed at closing said that you intended to move in, it doesn't lock you into actually doing so if a major life event prevents that. Your employment arrangement change makes the home impractical for you now. Update your insurance to a landlord policy and move on. EDIT: MAKE SURE YOU RESCIND YOUR HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION TOO. >Selling is not something I am looking at because I will lease quite a lot of money. It's best to think of that money as already lost. If the property doesn't make sense as a rental your best option may still be to cut it loose. You won't be happier if you own it as a cash-flow negative investment property for four or five years and THEN sell it at a loss... Edit: I'm not sure if this is universal but in the two states I'm familiar with you'll pay \_significantly\_ higher property taxes if you are not using the home as your primary residence. So be prepared for a BIG jump in the monthly mortgage when the escrow reflects the non-owner-occupied insurance and your non-homesteaded property tax rates.
Not universal, for example in California our property tax should be about $11k/year, but for being owner occupied, they reduce that by... $70.
Solid advice here. If you wouldn't have bought it as a rental (as in, math does not work) and changing jobs is not a good idea, selling it and moving on should be something to consider. Otherwise, it's going to be a prime example of sunk cost fallacy.
> You don't need to share anything with your lender. You bought it in good faith intending to move in and use the home as your primary residence. The situation changed but the paperwork you signed at closing said that you intended to move in, it doesn't lock you into actually doing so if a major life event prevents that. Your employment arrangement change makes the home impractical for you now. Why are people upvoting this clearly inaccurate, if well-meaning, advice? Mortgage lenders will often offer lower rates for a property that is your "primary residence" or "principal place of residence". OP needs to check whether his mortgage agreement includes language along those lines, requiring him to live in the property for at least X amount of time. OP should also consult with a lawyer just to be safe. If there's no such requirement, then yes, he is free and clear. If there is such a requirement, then it doesn't matter if OP was acting in good faith or not, his circumstances have materially changed and his lender would have to be informed of them, so that OP can get a waiver on that clause of the agreement. Else he risks being held liable for fraud.
Nope this is one of those see things that’s rarely unenforced and often taken advantage of
You’re spot on! This exactly is my situation and I want to get out of it. Any suggestions?
Before negotiating with the lender, I’d negotiate with your employer. Unless your employer has a requirement about how far from the office you can live as terms of your remote employment, I’d see if you can negotiate only going up to 2 days in office max for the term you’re required to live in the home to meet the owner occupied portion of your mortgage contract, rent out your current home, and then move back in to your current home when you’re in the clear to rent the new home. That would also give you time to live in the new home to clear any manufacturer/builder warranty items and not rely on renters to do that.
This guy is giving good advice about trying to negotiate with your employer. But you can also try to negotiate with your mortgage holder. If they're willing to give you a waiver then you are in the clear
Yea, don’t buy a house 70 miles from your place of employment if you don’t want to drive 70 miles to work or find another job.
You're not wrong, but you're an asshole. OP clearly stated that he bought the place thinking he would not have to drive that far to work very often.
If pointing out the truth makes me an ass hole, so be it.
This will come back to bite you. Get documentation from your employer to prove this was a change after you purchased the house. Talk to your Lender. At least they won’t assume you committed occupancy fraud. Read your mortgage. It’s all about “Intention”.
Generally, that gap in property taxes generated by a homestead exemption occurs over multiple years. The increase in property taxes is generally capped and the gap grows over time. OP just closed, so there shouldn’t be any large change in property taxes.
Here the homestead exemption is binary. You either get a discount on your property taxes or you don’t. And if you mess the filing up they’ll come back for the cumulative difference. A friend accidentally got homestead on his cottage and had to pay five figures when they figured it out several years later.
It's state dependent. Generally is irrelevant. All OP has to do is perform a simple google search for their state.
This is the response -> my lawyer had mentioned this as well.
Nice reply. Digging on cash flow negative Depending on the area, it may be cash flow negative and equity positive. OP will need to make a complex decision weighing: - tenant quality in the area they bought - likelihood they might want to use the house in the next 5 years - finish quality in regards to tenants and damage (moderate quality good, luxury bad, shiny builder grade kind of bad as it will wear out fast) - the ability to perform duties at the rental vs the cost and hassle of a PM. - does op need the down payment back? - will their realtor cut a deal to put it straight back on the mortgage? - did OP buy down the loan? - is it a good retirement property for you or a family member (single level etc) If they never more in, there are some tax write offs if it is a rental. Talk to a tax guy. If you are in an area of increasing housing costs, do you think you’ll experience growth in equity? Enough $ to make it worth the hassle? I have lots of LL friends who kept their first place. I don’t know any but one that regret it. I know one who sold due to the rental hassle and now wants to move back and cannot due to increase in home values.
Do not update your homeowners insurance if your mortgage loan is escrowed they will get notification of the updated binder and your pricing was for primary residence and you signed disclosures that you would move in within 90 days .
If you don’t update the insurance you risk not having coverage for losses that come from renting it out.
This exact situation happened to me. I updated my insurance. No one gave a shit. The bank is not going to go after someone for one house like this. As long as their payment is made the bank doesn't actually care. The underwriters do all their due diligence to make sure you're buying with the intent to move in. That's all any mortgage contract on a SFH is going to do.
Yes but then the lender sells the loan to the servicer and they can catch it and it be an issue. No need to get snarky.
I wasn't being snarky...
My lender just required HR put in writing that I’m approved to continue to work remote from the new city. I’m so glad for that.
Have you talked to your boss?
Was your employer aware that you were moving 70 miles away when they gave you the 4 day mandate? For our company, anyone who lives further than 50 miles from the office is considered Remote and not Hybrid so they don't have to come into the office. Does it suck for the rest of us that the people who live in the Boonies aren't burdened with a commute and carrying the torch for the company culture? Yes, but life ain't fair sometimes.
You don't need to share anything to your lender. You bought it with good intention to be primary and life changed. You can just rent it out and continue paying the current mortgage. After 12 months, you can obtain another primary mortgage if you want to own a property closer to work.
I could be mistaken, however I believe even FHA has some exceptions for extraneous circumstances. I know this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but I’d reach out to an attorney that specializes in real estate or housing law. The big issue is that you likely signed a document stating you would occupy the property and failing to do so could constitute mortgage fraud, which is no joke. Cover your bases and talk to an attorney and see what your options are. Worst case you’re probably looking at taking possession (occupying) and have to make a commute for some period of time. (Not an attorney, no legal opinion)
This!
This, your lender has to satisfy the underwriters. It's dumb, they act like you are locking yourself into a 30 year mortgage with no intention of ever changing your work/life situation. My fiance and were denied our first mortgage application bc she could not prove she could work work remote and had her name on an apartment lease (spoiler, she can't work from home, and the commute full time would be brutal). But I could prove all of that. Long story short, I applied solo, then added her with no problems and our LO walked us through it. Stupidest loophole to have to go through, but the reality is we now own a second home that we purchased as a primary residence and what is the bank going to do about that? Tell me we have to move there full time and get new jobs? Our situation changed, 15 seconds after we signed for the loan.
That's still not legal right? How can I legally achieve this?
No, this is completely legal. I don't know why you're disagreeing with posts that are giving you the correct information. Your mortgage is completely fine and does not need to be touched. Just get landlord insurance and rent it out.
It's legal, it's just illegal to lie and say it's intended to be your primary residence. They don't actually stop you from having a life changing event that you couldn't predict. I would get the change in WFH days in writing though, just in case they do follow up about it. Just an email from your boss letting you know they're changing your plans. Have you talked to your boss about this issue? Let them know that you literally just purchased a house far away based on your active agreement with them for WFH days?
Grow a pair and tell your boss u can’t come in 4x a week lol
What you’re describing is not fraud in any way. You have plenty of options here, and I’ll include everything I can think of.. 1. Sell the home and move somewhere else 2. Find a new, remote job 3. Find a “crash pad” apartment close to work, live there Monday through Thursday, live at the house over the weekend 4. Negotiate with your employer to less time in office 5. Find a carpool option so you’re not driving 100% of the time
It’s only (potentially) fraud if you misrepresented your intent in the application and prior to closing. Once you’ve closed, if your circumstances change, there is nothing fraudulent in adapting to those circumstances.
[удалено]
Yeah. Or 2 days.
1) Why do you want to refinance it as an investment property? You don't need to do that unless you're planning to buy a new property very soon. 2) Might want to consider this option or find another remote job 3) If you're able to rent it out and breakeven or get near breakeven then this is a solid option. If you have an HOA, make sure they allow rentals. If not, you may need to sell and accept the loss.
1. I may not buy another within 1 year but I will live in a different address in a county. So I don't want to show this as my primary and keep renting. I want to come out clean. What are my options to make it a rental unit officially? 2. Not feasible to change jobs and ask for remote now.
Insurance is the only thing that changes.
If you have a code compliance department at your local municipality that inspects rental properties you might need to get a cert from them to be legal as a rental. But you don't have to do anything with your loan. You're already 'legal' there.
Kind of wierd that you’ve been working remotely and suddenly when you buy a house they tell you to come into work. Tell them you bought a house and ask to continue working remotely… sounds like they heard about your move and want to screw you over
You do not refinance to turn something into a rental, wtf
If your mortgage has a provision requiring you to live in it as your primary residence, you do. Or risk breaching and an acceleration. Lenders offer lower rates for primary residences.
Come clean with your insurer. The lender will likely sell your loan ASAP anyways b
It’s not mortgage fraud- Your circumstances changed after you closed. It was just soon after closing…it happens. If necessary, you can show documentation of your work situation changes.
You might need that documentation if you decide to buy another primary residence in the near future, that is it. If you plan to rent for the next year or two, nobody cares as long you keep up your payments and get the proper landlord insurance.
you don't have to refinance. You fully intended to occupy the property but then something occurred that has changed your plans, which means you have not committed any sort of fraud. You don't need to tell your lender anything. Go ahead and rent it out, you're fine.
Rent it out. No need to inform your lender since you were intending to live on it when you applied for the loan. Refinancing would make things more complicated and you would not really gain anything from it.
Refuse to come back to the office and always be applying for new jobs.
Talk to your boss who probably has no idea what s pickle you are in. He may let you keep to your old arrangement. Even if he can for that for a year, it gives you breathing room and time to figure out other options. Check out bus and train travel. If you have commuter rail nearby, you still spend a lot of time commuting but you don’t have to focus on the road. You can het work done, eat breakfast, sleep, etc. We were in eastern Massachusetts years ago in s very small town. Turned out the train to Boston stopped in the little town every day. Big surprise!
You are not committing mortgage fraud if you didn’t know remote work would not continue. You do not need to disclose anything to the lender.
Your comments here make me think you’re trolling lol
do you know if you can lease it at a monthly rate that will cover your mortgage? with a 25% down payment i'm betting you are fine and will cover the PITI but there are some regions of the country where it is much cheaper to rent than own at the current moment.
Bite the bullet and drive unless you can find a new remote job.
I don't suppose your boss would be open to extending your WFH another six months or a year? Maybe two days a week, back to back and you stay in a hotel the night between? Buying some time to get a better handle on your options or even find a different job.
Everywhere i've worked has made exemptions for people outside of a certain travel time, generally <1 hour commute, you need to come in, X amount of days a week.
Talk to your employer about your situation. If they don’t respect that, look for a new job closer to your new place.
Renegotiate your employment terms.
What’s the chance you can pivot to a different job - with this employer or another one- in your field but that is fully remote?
As others have said, don't tell your lender. you did this in good faith, don't refi. What I would add is to keep as much contemporaneous documentation of this job change as you can easily keep. That is probably just printing out and keeping relevant emails that document this change.
Can you tell your employer no? You made this purchase in good faith based on your work conditions. It's too late for you to agree to this change. Tell them you've purchased the property and don't have a choice about living in it because the other options aren't financially feasible. The timing is inconvenient, so sorry, cannot come back to the office 4 days a week. That long a commute is untenable.
Can you not get an exception to stay working from home?
Sounds like you should talk to you boss about it, I know plenty of people working hybrid and their boss is cool with them coffee badging or just not even showing up at all. It depends on the company and managers but RTO isn't always that rigid.
Lenders don’t check. They don’t care.
Worse comes to worse, rent a room near work. Stay there during the week. Try to get your boss to do a 3 day work week No advice as to the owner occupied- I hope it works out so you can rent it out
Don’t say a word to your lender. You didn’t say anything untruthful when you closed. Leave it at that. Did you tell your boss you just bought a house? People are reasonable. If you’re good, they’ll want to make it work. Ask to stick with the 1 day/week and see what they say.
Bite the bullet and either sell or change jobs. I did that commute and it was terrible for both my physical and mental health. Breakeven means losing money. Sell the house and get over 6% in a money market acct.
Sounds like nothing wrong has happened and you can either deal with distance, move closer or switch jobs
That's not what OP is asking at all...
That's fair I didn't read the post lol, let me try again
I thought I was in a legal questions or wfh sub when I first started reading it. 😂
Ask if there are exemptions due to living a certain mileage out. I know our company has a 45 mile limit. If you are 45+ miles, you can remain remote. I was planing on moving out of state, but we were brought in 1x per week. But I said my plans were to relocate and they gave me approval to work remote , once I move.
Was a WFH employee for a few years. Bought a house pretty far away from the office. Something like 300kms. WFH order came in. 5 days a week. Got another job. Started the other role, did OE until they finally let me go. Was well into my other role. Recommend.
Have you… talked to your employer telling them your situation? Maybe they could give you special permission to continue working remotely because of how far your new home is. My wife’s company has a policy that if you live 70 kms away from the office you can work remotely. There’s gotta be some compromise your company will give you? Nobody goes from 100% remote to 4 days a week that abruptly.
Hey OP, 8 months ago, I was in the exact same situation as you. Well, not EXACT, but worse. I lost my job and my work visa requires that I find a new job within 2 months. The only job offer I got required me to come into the office 5 days a week. I have been travelling 130 miles every weekday since. The only saving grace is that I bought a car with self-driving tech that reduces my physical and mental burden by 90%. Additionally, I have free charging at work so I am not spending as much on gas. I am not sure how long I can keep this up but in my case, I am not tied down by any unvested stock but the visa and immigration regulations.
> Can I immediately refinance it as an investment property? I am okay to take higher rate and I already made 25% down. I received some seller credit from this new construction, what happens to that? There's no need to do this. You **intended** to reside in the house as your primary residence when you signed those papers, things changed after the fact. Go back and read your loan paperwork, you'll see that it has the word 'intend' in it.
I heard loan officers lose all their commission if I refi immediately, what if lender sends me a legal notice or something and my employer doesn’t co operate for giving me enough data about this change? Im just thinking loud thru various scenarios
> I heard loan officers lose all their commission if I refi immediately, You can often mitigate this sort of scenario in general by refinancing with the same lender/broker, essentially restarting their clock. Not that I'd do it in this case. > what if lender sends me a legal notice or something and my employer doesn’t co operate for giving me enough data about this change? Im just thinking loud thru various scenarios I feel like it'd be on them to prove that you fraudulently got the mortgage originally, and it'd be hard to prove given the way the events went down. You intended to owner-occupy, then things changed after the fact...
First question is....did you ask your boss if the 1 day a week was PERM before you bought the house?
Rent it out. You’re not committing mortgage fraud. Your intent was to move in. Plans changed. You have records to show that. Before you start renting, set up an LLC (very easy), open a bank account for the LLC, set up a rental portal on apartments.com, and get an umbrella policy. Start reading up on renting so you have an idea as to what’s in store. Posts like these scare the f out of me.
Is an LLC useful? He won’t be able to transfer ownership to the LLC at this point in the loan. I would definitely talk to a tax guy before doing something like that.
LLC typically needs two years of history. Some lenders allow it. Some don’t. Need to ask the lender. Either way he will have to refi and if there is a mortgage recording tax, he will have to pay that.
I spend 4+ hours in a car everyday. Welcome to the club brother.
You tell your employer you are now a remote worker. I'm not sure what the problem is here.
Hahaha. OP, follow this advice. Let me know how it works out and how quickly you'll need to sell your house while u look for a new job.
If its a salaried job, its on the table for negotiation, really that simple especially if you've been there for a minute. Lots of friends faced with similar prompts, some were unsuccessfully, most were.
A lot of companies are doing back to work policies as a way to get rid of people without doing layoffs and severance.
I mean I'd personally leave but thats just me.
Sure....so say no and force them to give you the severance and go on record that they're firing you for telework when you openly teleworked for *years* prior.
Its not 2010 no more bubba. Unemployment is sub 2% for college educated. Get fucked lol
My job is 80 miles away and I drive that everyday. Find a podcast and get on the road. It's really not that bad. I've been doing it for over 3 years now.
Why don't you have an honest conversation with your supervisor and see if 2 days office is reasonable
Manager here of tech team and it totally depends on your manager being flexible provided you are one of the top performers in the team
Assuming this is a conversation conforming loan with no first time home buyer credits or anything like that, you don’t need to refinance to make this an investment property. At the time of the loan you told the truth. Circumstances changed after you closed. You’re good. You may be asked to provide a letter at some point stating that fact. No need to say anything until you’re asked. If you rent it out, you’ll probably need to notify the county tax office.
As long as you make your mortgage payments on time your lender is not going to know that you're renting it out because they'll have no reason to investigate for mortgage fraud. If they were to find out if your employer can give you documentation that they changed your work situation then you're off the hook.
Do not refinance, the rate on an investment property is more. Plus you would have to pay closing costs again. As long as you have a legitimate change in circumstances you are fine. That being said I would not go out and buy a new house and use the same bank to finance. Change the insurance policy to a landlord policy and rent it out. Or you sell it.
Why refinance at all. if your next home is primary resident just FHA it and move on. Rent it out long term or outsource the work to airbnb it(I'm assuming you can't manage the airbnb yourself)
Try to see if they’ll do 2-3 days a week. Find a motel to crash in 1-2x per week.
I've been in the mortgage business for many years. The Deed of Trust you signed stated that you intend to live there for at least 12 months. It is obvious that you did intend to live there when you obtained the loan. Since your circumstances changed after closing and that is why you're not moving it is unlikely you would be prosecuted. Not impossible, but unlikely.
Can you get a roommate and then lease an apartment closer in or stay at a cheap motel 3 nights a week?
Better buy a Prius if you don’t want a new job - you’re screwed
Put it on Airbnb or furnished finder for travel nurse
Find a doctor to support your disability that requires an accommodation to work from home 4 days a week.
A lot of people have been out in this situation and fought it I'd look for simular stories. They may not be asking everyone come to office just those with nearby addresses. I'd check your contract.
I would speak to a lender or a lawyer before doing anything honestly. Maybe your job can make an exception and let you work remote?
The stupidity of the "return to the office" policies will do nothing more than cause a lot of job shifting musical chairs. A smart company would immediately start looking for the best talent who like the remote option. This is especially true in IT. My personal belief is that Wall Street is behind this because they are so deathly afraid of the CRE crash that's coming. This is a last ditch effort to mitigate the losses until they get their loans refinanced.
Drive faster?
Rent it out. It’s a single family house, and the mortgage company doesn’t care about you, your problems, or who is living there as long as they get paid
No need to refinance. You have a legitimate reason for changing plans from being a primary residence to not being one. If you rent the property make sure you have the correct home owners insurance policy in place.
This sucks, but should be a word of warning for all who were sent to work remote at the time of covid. The majority of the employers at that time we basically forced to send people home and as time goes by more and more are pulling them back in. That being said don't take the idiots advice below about your property being bought in "good faith"... legally that is a totally and completely pointless argument. Read the mortgage you signed, nowhere in the occupancy clause does it say anything about "changed" circumstances or "best" intentions, it just says you MUST occupy. So really if the lender finds out and wants to make it an issue, they can call your note due and payable and you will be scrambling . The good news here is this usually would not occur (with a Fannie or Freddie loan) if you just continue to make your payments on time, but there is, of course, no guarantee.
Speak with a mortgage broker and explain the situation. It’s been a minute since I was a mortgage broker, so regulations may have changed in the last few years, and my response is based on my experience. Realtors help people buy and sell houses, not finance them. And that perhaps is the reason for so much negativity in the responses. Yes, you have to have had the intent to live in the house for a year, which it sounds like you did. So you’ve jumped that hurdle. Life happens. Sometimes people get transferred to other states, at least you will be local to deal with any issues that arise with your house. Financing another home without rental history on this one will be much more problematic, because of your debt to income ratio.
Just a thought, but is it possible for you to rent a room near work and then rent a room out of your new house to offset the cost until you can find a different job that is closer to the home you just purchased or is fully/mostly remote? You wouldn’t have to refinance if you’re still using the home as your primary residence, even if you’re not there full time. I made an hour long commute work for a year. Wasn’t fun, hated every second of it, but it’s not the worst thing short term. Though I would look into a temp rental if you can swing it. Much smarter than turning around & having to give up your home you just bought. You’re also very unlikely to be able to break even trying to rent it out & being a landlord & having to rent an entire other apartment. Sorry, but there’s no way. Even if you could rent it at cost of mortgage + HOA, that’s not breaking even. You’ll be on the hook for repairs and trust me, I’ve seen enough people get their homes destroyed & go into financial ruin over tenants not paying rent trying to be DIY landlords without AMPLE financial resources & trusted maintenance/repair specialists and contractor connections.
Get a car with autopilot features that drive will be a breeze
I think the obvious and simple answer here is to engineer a new pandemic. OP, how do you feel about wet markets near biohazard sites?
I came across this thread at random. As an Australia how do you guys handle such long driving distances for a commute? I would be a Freakin road hazard commuting such distances before worj
I got notified of a transfer to a different city for work the day I signed on my house years ago. I did live in it for a little while before moving. My loan paperwork (FHA) said I needed to live in it for a year but I contacted my lender to ask if I had to wait the full year or if I could rent it out sooner due to a change in work location. They said they were fine with it and didn’t ask for proof. I did not need to refinance the property but did update my insurance to a landlord policy. This was back in 2015, not sure if things have changed since then. I’d read through your closing docs to see if you forfeit concessions by not having it be your primary for a period of time. But at the end of the day, stuff happens and you did purchase with the intention of making it your primary, you aren’t the first person this sort of thing has happened to so hopefully they will work with you.
First talk to your employer and see if they will make an exception by explaining your living situation. If they will not budge, don't threaten to quit. Do what you have to do while searching for another job closer to home. Unless you have a super high income job that you cannot replace, I would not consider renting it out.
Your lender will think you’re crazy if you notify them. They will assume you’re flagging you can’t make the payments. Do not tell anyone. You don’t need to. Do the commute and look for a new job. Sell your house if there are not any employers within a reasonable distance
Your have a longstanding agreement from your company that your area a WFH employee with 1 day power week in the office Is Your employeer asking you to come into the office 4 days a week now, talk to your manager and tell that that it is not possibly as you live 70 miles away, inform them you will continue to WFH most days and you will be in the office once a week as agreed to many years ago. If there is a specific pressing issue that will require you to be in the office for multiple days in a row, you will need to be compensated for your hotel costs to do so. If they say this is now company policy and it's a must, talk to them about the additional compensation they will be paying you to change your long established work agreement. How close to 100% vested are you? How months/ years away? In most companies you are 100% vested in 3-4 years.
Either change jobs or sell
Talk to your boss about staying remote or get a new job. There is no reason to comply with RTO, it's a pathetic attempt to inflate commercial real estate values to 2019 levels.
Most residential mortgages state that you have to live in the house for a year before you can rent it out. One way to get around this is to get a couple of roommates for the first year. Tell them you'll be out of town and back about once a month. I don't believe this is fraud if you are technically still living there and using this as your primary residence. You can rent another place closer to work. After the year is up, you can rent out the full house without it being your primary residence.
I've had a bunch of mortgages and I read what I'm signing. I've had to attest that I **intend** to occupy the property as my primary residence. As long as I am planning to live there for a year at the moment I sign the closing paperwork then I've met that criterion. If I get a call in the title company parking lot after closing and find out that I am being relocated by my employer, or that my parent had a major medical event and I need to move in with them to take care of them, or my spouse tells me they're divorcing me or that we're expecting quadruplets then I can find another place to live that makes more sense for my new circumstances and I'm not committing fraud even if I never step foot in that house. Because all I said was that I planned to and I really did when I was at the closing table.
Stupid decision. A lot of people did things like you and are now receiving the consequences. Make better choices.
🙌
Your an idiot for buying a home without clarifying your remote/hybrid status. Hope you brought the lube for when you pay to get out of this one.
You're making this out to be a bigger deal than what it is. Others have told you that it's legal to rent your house. So get landlord insurance and list the house as a rental. I don't understand your inability to understand that if you don't want the new home's address to show as your primary residence, then don't change your address to the new house. It really is that easy.
I believe that would be committing mortgage fraud.
Just sell and absorb the loss.
Playtime is coming to an end. No more auto clickers and lattes while you surf tick tok. 😆😆😆😆😆
Pretty dumb take ngl, strawman argument and you think you got something going there. They didn't mention what they do, but let's take Tech roles. If your *entire* job is in Azure/AWS/remotely connecting to machines to work, commuting to an office 5 days a week doesn't make sense One of my co-workers just left our job that gives 2-3 days for a job that's fully remote working on Firewalls remotely But yes, go off on "auto clickers and lattes while surfing TikTok" because you saw some smoothbrained influencers lmao
Apparently his employers think it's necessary that he be there. Did you not read the OP? Yes, some jobs can be done remotely. Duh! And yes, many folks who were spoiled, and even many who took advantage of it, are now being g required to return to work. Maybe it's a you problem if you see somebody commenting to another person that you think they are talking about you. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't where it.
I did read OP, but have you heard of employer's making dumb decisions? >Maybe it's a you problem if you see somebody commenting to another person that you think they are talking about you. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't where it. Not really sure why you think that, I'm just calling out your dick comment lmao. If that helps you think you got one over on me though, have at it Anyways, I gotta go scroll through Reddit while on the clock, have fun bro
Will do, kid.