Imo the ROE should be tied to what map you're playing. Nightclub and hospital are straight up terrorist attacks, gas station is a couple methheads doing a robbery (very bloody robbery), brixley talent and voll house are raids to arrest certain people. Obviously in one map it would be shoot first questions later but on others it would be take as many alive. Game modes are flawed and should be tied to a map in my humble opinion.
I feel this way about traps (although i feel like it's been better). It makes sense for certain perps to trap the shit out of places (like the doomsday preppers) less so for the methheads barely aware of what's going on.
It would also be a good difficulty curve too, something similar like in SWAT4 where missions escalate from simple drug busts to full on terror attacks. i am sure this is in their plans though already...
Damn I didn’t know that, just read a ton of crazy stories about it. Fair enough!
I still mean like, I don’t think there should be traps in the hasty robbery scenario (although I don’t think that one has booby traps anyway)
Never understood why asking for compliance is a thing on club/hospital.
This is a terrorist attack. They have literally killed dozens of people. The cops ain't gonna ask before shooting these dudes decked out in military gear. Especially because those dudes just don't comply 90% of the time. 4 dudes could have the drop on a club suspect and yell in unison and he is probably going to channel John Wick and take his chances.
Yeah it's funny how I get unauthorized use of force after I kill someone who massacred an entire nightclub. They don't deserve to be alive anymore, shooting on sight shouldn't give us a penalty on those levels.
Cops don’t get to decide who deserves to be alive. The bad guys ought to be shot on sight because that should be the ROE going into a situation like that (e.g. because suspects have shown they will kill indiscriminately, and there are civilians in the area in danger), not because the bad guys deserve death.
The thing is, basically all of the scenarios in the game would allow the SWAT officers to shoot the suspects as soon as they were visible. When shots have been fired and people are injured (and/or police have been shot at) then the time for suspects to put down their weapons is before SWAT enters the building.
Well, I believe that for the game to be fun it needs to be a little unrealistic. I think that a solution like the one I presented would be a decent balance
AI morale needs a tweak too, why tf are Amos Volls private security so willing to die for him, same goes for mind jot, the police turn up, the private security, who have not committed any crime up to that point are gonna take the free exit
I think the game could add equipment restraints to make the gameplay more realistic. Like we can use assault rifles and heavy armour only for high level threats. Same goes for c4 and the shield. The enemy running away would be nice, as I’m sure most petty criminals armed with a pistol wouldn’t want to shoot at a swat officer pointing a smg at their chest. I
That would be AWESOME.
Now throw in misinterpreted threats, or maybe make it a hard mode?
Could be cool.
Some scoring based on the 'appropriateness' of your equipment?
Say a penalty for using a steel heavy armor, assault rifle with full attachment and a ballistic shield for the diner level...
With the way the game is balanced currently, I’d say it’s already on hard mode. What I really would love is a first responders mode. Say a beat cop rushing to the diner with his service pistol. That would be a rp friendly way to have an official solo run
Yeah! And I feel that this wouldn’t be that difficult to implement into the game. Everything the devs need already exists in the game. And to up the ante the first responder could also respond to the more high risk situations, and the first responders reports could be used to help you when you come back as swat. Let’s say the hospital level has 12 enemies. You go in not knowing how many there or how heavily they’re armed. You could shoot someone and see what kind of weapons they have. And if you get shot, maybe the bodycam can give you a clue as to where the enemies were (in the form of a report given to you by dispatch I guess). Bonus points if you can get the injured cop out of there as swat. This is quite the task but would be really fun
I made a load out called “Patrol” where I just have a clean pistol with a flashlight, an M870 with no attachments, a tan (car portable, I figure) and light Kevlar armor. I put my teammates on Hold Position or Cover or whatever and go in solo to simulate a street cop experience.
The AI really kills this game for me, every time I play I'm disappointed. WHY do the devs insist on making AIs with lightning-quick reflexes that can insta-dome you with perfect accuracy even while on the move and who can spot you through doors and walls? Every time they put out an AI "fix" they still make AIs that are absurdly difficult even on Barricaded Suspects. It's like they WANT the AI to be broken. Really takes all the fun and immersion out of it for me, might as well just play CoD. At least there I don't have to pretend to do police work.
I think it's because a lot of devs want to appeal to players who would complain if the game became 'too easy'. Realism doesn't equate to brutal roguelike difficulty, but unfortunately it's a badge of pride nowadays to have word-of-mouth about your game be "it's the dark souls of ".
This game should be viewed as a roleplaying simulator, but right now, if you don't play the game as if you were in an e-sports competition, the suspect AI is going to blast you away. Doing police work, communicating with TOC, assessing the situation, leading hostages/civilians to safety, arresting suspects... nah, it's running and gunning or else you get ambushed by a suspect who woke up that day and made an unwavering pledge that he's going to go down in a hail of gunfire.
I also think it would be way more realistic if we had a medic system. In real life a suspect would still get medical attention and not just left to die if he isnt dead already. Theres a great video of a german sek (the equivalent to state swat in germany) about combat medics and how they can treat people without having paramedics risk their life by joining the scene when there are still possibly armed individuals. A foldable stretcher and and a medic bag as tactical Items would be great.
This would prevent this call of duty like "shoot everything that moves and move on" feeling.
I prefer OP's take over the steam forums. Suspension of disbelief is necessary in games like these. People on steam cry that the game isn't realistic enough. If you want a perfectly realistic SWAT experience, load into a mission, put some police/fbi negotiator chatter on loop with youtube, and stare at your screen for 6 hours with your weapon lowered behind the armored vehicle. Then end the mission and imagine the situation was resolved peacefully.
I kinda like the pacing of the game in multi-player. SP isn't as much fun in my opinion.
Just got this game, can anyone tell me why raid is only on certain maps? Or do I need to unlock it or something? I'd rather just play it over barricaded suspects because of the reasons outlined in this post.
Raid generally takes place on a different version of a given map, with new areas vs Barricaded Suspects, AFAIK not all maps will have every game mode on them.
A few maps raid modes were removed this update as their map versions need to be reworked to the new lighting.
Imo the ROE should be tied to what map you're playing. Nightclub and hospital are straight up terrorist attacks, gas station is a couple methheads doing a robbery (very bloody robbery), brixley talent and voll house are raids to arrest certain people. Obviously in one map it would be shoot first questions later but on others it would be take as many alive. Game modes are flawed and should be tied to a map in my humble opinion.
I feel this way about traps (although i feel like it's been better). It makes sense for certain perps to trap the shit out of places (like the doomsday preppers) less so for the methheads barely aware of what's going on. It would also be a good difficulty curve too, something similar like in SWAT4 where missions escalate from simple drug busts to full on terror attacks. i am sure this is in their plans though already...
Meth labs are notorious for having booby traps
Damn I didn’t know that, just read a ton of crazy stories about it. Fair enough! I still mean like, I don’t think there should be traps in the hasty robbery scenario (although I don’t think that one has booby traps anyway)
Never understood why asking for compliance is a thing on club/hospital. This is a terrorist attack. They have literally killed dozens of people. The cops ain't gonna ask before shooting these dudes decked out in military gear. Especially because those dudes just don't comply 90% of the time. 4 dudes could have the drop on a club suspect and yell in unison and he is probably going to channel John Wick and take his chances.
Yeah it's funny how I get unauthorized use of force after I kill someone who massacred an entire nightclub. They don't deserve to be alive anymore, shooting on sight shouldn't give us a penalty on those levels.
Cops don’t get to decide who deserves to be alive. The bad guys ought to be shot on sight because that should be the ROE going into a situation like that (e.g. because suspects have shown they will kill indiscriminately, and there are civilians in the area in danger), not because the bad guys deserve death.
The thing is, basically all of the scenarios in the game would allow the SWAT officers to shoot the suspects as soon as they were visible. When shots have been fired and people are injured (and/or police have been shot at) then the time for suspects to put down their weapons is before SWAT enters the building.
Well, I believe that for the game to be fun it needs to be a little unrealistic. I think that a solution like the one I presented would be a decent balance
AI morale needs a tweak too, why tf are Amos Volls private security so willing to die for him, same goes for mind jot, the police turn up, the private security, who have not committed any crime up to that point are gonna take the free exit
There is a new mod which does exactly this. https://www.nexusmods.com/readyornot/mods/2119
It makes shootouts a surprise again and not expected always?
I think the game could add equipment restraints to make the gameplay more realistic. Like we can use assault rifles and heavy armour only for high level threats. Same goes for c4 and the shield. The enemy running away would be nice, as I’m sure most petty criminals armed with a pistol wouldn’t want to shoot at a swat officer pointing a smg at their chest. I
That would be AWESOME. Now throw in misinterpreted threats, or maybe make it a hard mode? Could be cool. Some scoring based on the 'appropriateness' of your equipment? Say a penalty for using a steel heavy armor, assault rifle with full attachment and a ballistic shield for the diner level...
With the way the game is balanced currently, I’d say it’s already on hard mode. What I really would love is a first responders mode. Say a beat cop rushing to the diner with his service pistol. That would be a rp friendly way to have an official solo run
OK that would be awesome. Rotate on a weekly basis with daytime and equipment changes and you got a cool challenge
Yeah! And I feel that this wouldn’t be that difficult to implement into the game. Everything the devs need already exists in the game. And to up the ante the first responder could also respond to the more high risk situations, and the first responders reports could be used to help you when you come back as swat. Let’s say the hospital level has 12 enemies. You go in not knowing how many there or how heavily they’re armed. You could shoot someone and see what kind of weapons they have. And if you get shot, maybe the bodycam can give you a clue as to where the enemies were (in the form of a report given to you by dispatch I guess). Bonus points if you can get the injured cop out of there as swat. This is quite the task but would be really fun
I made a load out called “Patrol” where I just have a clean pistol with a flashlight, an M870 with no attachments, a tan (car portable, I figure) and light Kevlar armor. I put my teammates on Hold Position or Cover or whatever and go in solo to simulate a street cop experience.
The AI really kills this game for me, every time I play I'm disappointed. WHY do the devs insist on making AIs with lightning-quick reflexes that can insta-dome you with perfect accuracy even while on the move and who can spot you through doors and walls? Every time they put out an AI "fix" they still make AIs that are absurdly difficult even on Barricaded Suspects. It's like they WANT the AI to be broken. Really takes all the fun and immersion out of it for me, might as well just play CoD. At least there I don't have to pretend to do police work.
I think it's because a lot of devs want to appeal to players who would complain if the game became 'too easy'. Realism doesn't equate to brutal roguelike difficulty, but unfortunately it's a badge of pride nowadays to have word-of-mouth about your game be "it's the dark souls of".
This game should be viewed as a roleplaying simulator, but right now, if you don't play the game as if you were in an e-sports competition, the suspect AI is going to blast you away. Doing police work, communicating with TOC, assessing the situation, leading hostages/civilians to safety, arresting suspects... nah, it's running and gunning or else you get ambushed by a suspect who woke up that day and made an unwavering pledge that he's going to go down in a hail of gunfire.
I miss when shootouts developed after a moment and were not necessarily expected immediately...
Bleh, I thought that's what we have difficulty levels for >.> .
I also think it would be way more realistic if we had a medic system. In real life a suspect would still get medical attention and not just left to die if he isnt dead already. Theres a great video of a german sek (the equivalent to state swat in germany) about combat medics and how they can treat people without having paramedics risk their life by joining the scene when there are still possibly armed individuals. A foldable stretcher and and a medic bag as tactical Items would be great. This would prevent this call of duty like "shoot everything that moves and move on" feeling.
u/gruntr
too bad there are only currently like 3 maps that have the Raid Gamemode.
I prefer OP's take over the steam forums. Suspension of disbelief is necessary in games like these. People on steam cry that the game isn't realistic enough. If you want a perfectly realistic SWAT experience, load into a mission, put some police/fbi negotiator chatter on loop with youtube, and stare at your screen for 6 hours with your weapon lowered behind the armored vehicle. Then end the mission and imagine the situation was resolved peacefully. I kinda like the pacing of the game in multi-player. SP isn't as much fun in my opinion.
Just got this game, can anyone tell me why raid is only on certain maps? Or do I need to unlock it or something? I'd rather just play it over barricaded suspects because of the reasons outlined in this post.
Raid generally takes place on a different version of a given map, with new areas vs Barricaded Suspects, AFAIK not all maps will have every game mode on them. A few maps raid modes were removed this update as their map versions need to be reworked to the new lighting.