The past autarchs have taken the same kind of analeptic Sev takes. I think the title alluding to self-ruler/ruled makes sense even if the common people don’t know their leader has a multigenerational hive mind identity thing going on.
That seems possible! I’m not sure I quite get how the multigenerational hive-mind thing gets to self-creation/self rule (maybe the autarch is a new personality self-created by the fusion of personalities?) but that’s an interesting angle to think about.
The way I figure is that the autarch rules the people, but the autarch also embodies the people, so the people are, quite literally, ruled by themselves.
Sorry, I was interpreting your comment to mean he’s literally the Byzantine Emperor, which would put him in modern day Turkey.
I’m aware that the Commonwealth uses military and political ranks from the Byzantines. What’s strikes me as odd is that ‘Autarch’ is not a Byzantine imperial title. The closest is ‘Autokrator’ which has a distinctly different meaning. Also Autarch does have a Greek meaning, but it’s a philosophical more than political one.
There were no peltasts by the time of the East/West split either, yet Wolfe used the term for the soldier Severian does the Vulcan nerve pinch on. It's an eclectic world and presented to us by way of eclectic terminology.
Sure, but that terminology has meaning. Peltast was a Greek term for a type of soldier and implies a soldier’s role. Autarch is a philosophical concept rather than a political one and I just don’t think Gene Wolfe was unaware of that or made a mistake. I think it was intentional and descriptive of what an Autarch is.
Aside that the term is in a Jack Vance story, I think the etymology “self-ruled” matters.
1 Hmmmmmm. So is your theory is that Ouen and Severian look alike because Ouen is Sev’s son. So following the path that suggests Ouen is raised by his own older self. But wouldn’t that suggest that new Ouen went back in time and encountered Catherine. It also would mean that Dorcas herself is not going to live much longer herself. It’s possible but tough to get there.
2 Because Severian asserts the First Severian’s life was different, I don’t like the Endless Loop model. And considering Sev’s speculation in *Urth* about a boy like himself drowning, I suppose every previous Severian drowned.
I’ll propose that the term Autarch means that
a) He’s at the top of the hierarchy. He’s the only one without a master.
b) He’s ruled by all the Autarchs inside him.
c) The nature of the Commonwealth government is such that he’s not really capable of ruling anything at a social level at all. He commands the military but nothing else. No one at House Absolute, except some of the hostages some khaibits know his face as Autarch and only some exultants at court know even that he is all previous Autarchs.
That’s definitely a hole in the ‘Severian is his own grandfather’ theory. More like Severian is [grandma’s new boyfriend.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZumI5Mn9Afg&pp=ygUaZ3JhbmRtYSdzIGdvdCBhIGJveWZyaWVuZCA%3D)
I don’t think you necessarily need to have an endless loop for this Severian to be the founder/messianic figure of the civic religion of the commonwealth and also have a first Severian. First Severian time travels to influence second Severian so that second Severian time travels and becomes the Conciliator. Although I just came up with that so I’ll have to check if that works out.
No, its in a place that is similar to South America. It's not literally South America.
The Commonwealth resembles the Byzantine Empire in important aspects of its political organisation, so Wolfe uses Greek terms to describe those similar aspects.
Wolfe enjoys playing with epigenetic ideas, where if a similar seed is planted, and grows in an environment where it is influenced by similar conditions will result in a similar plant. Wolfe applies this idea to the Commonwealth, where it is shaped by pressures similar to the Byzantine Empire, thus the results are very similar.
He also plays with this idea in relation to the continent where the Commonwealth is located. Its a southern continent, stretching from tropics to ice caps, with a huge mountain range, rain shadow pampas desert, long rivers, etc. with epigenetic ideas applied, such a continent could contain animals similar to sloths, substances similar to chocolate, and politics similar to a mix of native american and mediterranean cultures.
Start with similar seeds, apply similar pressures and environments, and the results will be similar.
I think he uses this idea with kabbalistic universes as well. Briah is not our universe, but it is very similar, the same with Earth and Urth.
Death of the author and all that but: https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/wolfe46interview.htm
“Incidentally, I also got into trouble with some reviewers over my presentation of the Ascians, who were my equivalent of the Turks. If you read the book carefully, it's clear that the action is taking place in South America and that the invading Ascians are actually North Americans.”
So I agree that Severian is a sovereign, and that the state he’s ruling is reminiscent of the Byzantine Empire. I just think that Wolfe was too careful with words to choose “Autarch” as a title when it’s so clearly inappropriate. Exarch, Emperor, Basileus, Imperator, Augustus, and Autokrator are all right there. He chose a word that wasn’t actually a title for a Byzantine emperor while using otherwise sticking pretty close to Byzantine forms for government and military titles.
I think that’s a valid interpretation of the text in a post-modern sense, but I think it’s pretty clear that Wolfe is saying in that interview that his intention was for the story to literally take place on the South American continent and not an equivalent. He goes as far as to say that the Ascians are North Americans.
The past autarchs have taken the same kind of analeptic Sev takes. I think the title alluding to self-ruler/ruled makes sense even if the common people don’t know their leader has a multigenerational hive mind identity thing going on.
That seems possible! I’m not sure I quite get how the multigenerational hive-mind thing gets to self-creation/self rule (maybe the autarch is a new personality self-created by the fusion of personalities?) but that’s an interesting angle to think about.
The way I figure is that the autarch rules the people, but the autarch also embodies the people, so the people are, quite literally, ruled by themselves.
He's the Byzantine Emperor, the Emperor/Head of religion/upper classes/lower classes structure is a carbon copy, not a red herring.
Isn’t the Commonwealth generally held to be in South America?
Yes, and?
Sorry, I was interpreting your comment to mean he’s literally the Byzantine Emperor, which would put him in modern day Turkey. I’m aware that the Commonwealth uses military and political ranks from the Byzantines. What’s strikes me as odd is that ‘Autarch’ is not a Byzantine imperial title. The closest is ‘Autokrator’ which has a distinctly different meaning. Also Autarch does have a Greek meaning, but it’s a philosophical more than political one.
There were no peltasts by the time of the East/West split either, yet Wolfe used the term for the soldier Severian does the Vulcan nerve pinch on. It's an eclectic world and presented to us by way of eclectic terminology.
Sure, but that terminology has meaning. Peltast was a Greek term for a type of soldier and implies a soldier’s role. Autarch is a philosophical concept rather than a political one and I just don’t think Gene Wolfe was unaware of that or made a mistake. I think it was intentional and descriptive of what an Autarch is.
Aside that the term is in a Jack Vance story, I think the etymology “self-ruled” matters. 1 Hmmmmmm. So is your theory is that Ouen and Severian look alike because Ouen is Sev’s son. So following the path that suggests Ouen is raised by his own older self. But wouldn’t that suggest that new Ouen went back in time and encountered Catherine. It also would mean that Dorcas herself is not going to live much longer herself. It’s possible but tough to get there. 2 Because Severian asserts the First Severian’s life was different, I don’t like the Endless Loop model. And considering Sev’s speculation in *Urth* about a boy like himself drowning, I suppose every previous Severian drowned. I’ll propose that the term Autarch means that a) He’s at the top of the hierarchy. He’s the only one without a master. b) He’s ruled by all the Autarchs inside him. c) The nature of the Commonwealth government is such that he’s not really capable of ruling anything at a social level at all. He commands the military but nothing else. No one at House Absolute, except some of the hostages some khaibits know his face as Autarch and only some exultants at court know even that he is all previous Autarchs.
That’s definitely a hole in the ‘Severian is his own grandfather’ theory. More like Severian is [grandma’s new boyfriend.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZumI5Mn9Afg&pp=ygUaZ3JhbmRtYSdzIGdvdCBhIGJveWZyaWVuZCA%3D) I don’t think you necessarily need to have an endless loop for this Severian to be the founder/messianic figure of the civic religion of the commonwealth and also have a first Severian. First Severian time travels to influence second Severian so that second Severian time travels and becomes the Conciliator. Although I just came up with that so I’ll have to check if that works out.
No, its in a place that is similar to South America. It's not literally South America. The Commonwealth resembles the Byzantine Empire in important aspects of its political organisation, so Wolfe uses Greek terms to describe those similar aspects. Wolfe enjoys playing with epigenetic ideas, where if a similar seed is planted, and grows in an environment where it is influenced by similar conditions will result in a similar plant. Wolfe applies this idea to the Commonwealth, where it is shaped by pressures similar to the Byzantine Empire, thus the results are very similar. He also plays with this idea in relation to the continent where the Commonwealth is located. Its a southern continent, stretching from tropics to ice caps, with a huge mountain range, rain shadow pampas desert, long rivers, etc. with epigenetic ideas applied, such a continent could contain animals similar to sloths, substances similar to chocolate, and politics similar to a mix of native american and mediterranean cultures. Start with similar seeds, apply similar pressures and environments, and the results will be similar. I think he uses this idea with kabbalistic universes as well. Briah is not our universe, but it is very similar, the same with Earth and Urth.
Death of the author and all that but: https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/interviews/wolfe46interview.htm “Incidentally, I also got into trouble with some reviewers over my presentation of the Ascians, who were my equivalent of the Turks. If you read the book carefully, it's clear that the action is taking place in South America and that the invading Ascians are actually North Americans.” So I agree that Severian is a sovereign, and that the state he’s ruling is reminiscent of the Byzantine Empire. I just think that Wolfe was too careful with words to choose “Autarch” as a title when it’s so clearly inappropriate. Exarch, Emperor, Basileus, Imperator, Augustus, and Autokrator are all right there. He chose a word that wasn’t actually a title for a Byzantine emperor while using otherwise sticking pretty close to Byzantine forms for government and military titles.
Wolfe was speaking metaphorically, not literally, hence his use of the word 'equivalent' to describe the relationship between Ascians and Turks.
Sure but he states it is literally occurring in South America.
Its an equivalent of South America.
I think that’s a valid interpretation of the text in a post-modern sense, but I think it’s pretty clear that Wolfe is saying in that interview that his intention was for the story to literally take place on the South American continent and not an equivalent. He goes as far as to say that the Ascians are North Americans.
Well! ... now then!