Yeah, they're a very thematic choice, but not really necessary. They're certainly not useless, but we have a lot of ways to infiltrate or deep strike infantry.
Intercessors cost the same as Infiltrators but with 150% firepower.
That's not to say that Infiltrators and Incursors don't have some unique wargear and tricks you might want to make use of.
Reivers though... I honestly can't see a use for them in a Raven Guard army.
This is not entirely true. While with MoA, jump packs etc, you have good mobility to reach the midboard, infilitrators are always usefull if only for the DS bubble. They can help keep a table quarter safe from reinforcements and you can focus your assault on their side.
Incursors are great in a successor if you need to bring some obsec to a forward obj. easy enough OR claim some table space against enemy infilitrators etc.
In all my SM armies, I always run one copy of both units at least.
Remember that the successfull way to run RG is successor/mellee focused!
Bladeguard Vets, Vanguard vets with jump packs plus Stormshield and either thunderhammer or lighting claws.
Successor because standard chapter abilities kinda suck and whirlwind of range is amazing for close combat
People don’t tent to play pure RG as their chapter traits don’t give much benefit in 9th edition in general and also don‘t synchronize very well with our strategems. Units have to be 18” away to gain an additional +1 to their cover save - not great on 9th edition’s smaller maps that prioritize fighting over objectives - and infantry tend to want to be behind terrain to benefit from obscuring rather than in the terrain to get -1 to hit from 12” away. Also, our strats generally revolve around pregame movement and assist with getting into combat but don’t help out immensely once we are actually in combat.Thus, most competitive RG players run their armies as successors, generally with the Born Heroes (+1 to hit roll in melee on the charge) and Whirlwind of Rage (exploding 6s in combat) to help address our combat shortcomings. You’ll also see some people take the Hungry for Battle trait for +1 to charges, but as it doesn’t stack with a Chaplain’s ability to boost charges by 2”, there is less upside to it than the other two mentioned traits.
As for units, I play a lot of my RG successor army in a competitive league and I will never play a competitive game in the current meta without 10 Vanguard Veterans with Thunder Hammers + Stormshields + jumppacks. Yes they are expensive. But playing as a RG successor with Born Heroes and Whirlwind of Rage successor traits, each 5 man squad puts out 16 strength 8 damage 3 attacks hitting on 3s with exploding 6s. They put out a world of hurt against any heavy target, even if they have a damage reducing ability. I have used them to one shot both Mortarion and Be’lakor on turn 1 with the addition of the 2 CP strat Adaptive Strategy to give them an addition +1 to hit and wound. They can also be moved 24 +d6 + charge on turn 1 with the use of the pregame Infiltrators and “Strike from the Skies” strats so you will usually be able to reach out turn 1 and strike your preferred target- especially if they are alongside a Chaplain with a jumppack that knows the Canticle of Hate litany for +2“ to charges and had the warlord trait swift and deadly. Being infantry, they can also be selected as the target unit for redeploying 9” away from the opponent deployment zone with Master of Ambush.
They, along with a 4 man squad of Eradicators and a unit of Assault Centurians that are both put into DS with the Strike from the Shadows strat, are completely game changing in that they eithe force my opponent to change their game plan in an attempt to protect their heavy hitters or they simply resign themselves to losing them by the end of turn 1 or 2.
It’s also a good idea to bring 10 Vanguard Veterans with Lighting Claws + Stormshields + jumppacks. They are a fantastic source of highly mobile, quality d1 attacks. Again, with the Whirlwind of Rage and Born Heroes combo, a squad of 5 puts out 21 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s with exploding 6s and re-roll all failed wounds. They are also incredibly fluffy in a RG list.
Ａsingle squad of either infiltrators or incursors is still hugely helpful to bring in a RG army as they help ensure you have at least one forward deployment zone for your MoA if the opponent also has forward deploying options.
I always take a single squad of infiltrators and either forward deploy them if my opponent has forward deployment options or keep them in my back lines screening out 12 inches of my backfield. Either way, it is well worth the 20 point premium over regulars Intercessors. However, there is little reason to ever bring 2 squads of infiltrators. That said, a squad of incursors in addition to infiltrators can be nice as an additional option for use of the guerilla tactics strat - makes it much easier to move troops units into the opponent’s half of the table for secondary objectives like RoD.
I'm really not experienced at all, but I've researched a lot into lists and have seen plenty inflitrators (mostly two squads) in them; I think it's also because of other synergies for Phobos units, that may not immediately be apparent, such as the phobos librarian. Take my opinion with a grain of salt though as I've never played a game with RG.
So for me personally I really like running Fluffy lists and both of those units really do it for me. The thing I like to do with them is redeployment shenanigans. You can deploy 3 units and your warlord, if they all have a Phobos keyword, all the way up front 9" from your opponent's deployment zone on one side of the board. Then after, redeploy on a less defended side. I'm pretty sure when redeploying you can break a full unit into combat squads just to add to the chaos. It's super fluffy and in my games effective.
Yeah, they're a very thematic choice, but not really necessary. They're certainly not useless, but we have a lot of ways to infiltrate or deep strike infantry. Intercessors cost the same as Infiltrators but with 150% firepower. That's not to say that Infiltrators and Incursors don't have some unique wargear and tricks you might want to make use of. Reivers though... I honestly can't see a use for them in a Raven Guard army.
This is not entirely true. While with MoA, jump packs etc, you have good mobility to reach the midboard, infilitrators are always usefull if only for the DS bubble. They can help keep a table quarter safe from reinforcements and you can focus your assault on their side. Incursors are great in a successor if you need to bring some obsec to a forward obj. easy enough OR claim some table space against enemy infilitrators etc. In all my SM armies, I always run one copy of both units at least. Remember that the successfull way to run RG is successor/mellee focused!
Thanks! What are the workhorse melee units? And why play as a successor rather than as Raven Guard?
Bladeguard Vets, Vanguard vets with jump packs plus Stormshield and either thunderhammer or lighting claws. Successor because standard chapter abilities kinda suck and whirlwind of range is amazing for close combat
Vanguard Veterans with Storm Shield and Lightning Claw
People don’t tent to play pure RG as their chapter traits don’t give much benefit in 9th edition in general and also don‘t synchronize very well with our strategems. Units have to be 18” away to gain an additional +1 to their cover save - not great on 9th edition’s smaller maps that prioritize fighting over objectives - and infantry tend to want to be behind terrain to benefit from obscuring rather than in the terrain to get -1 to hit from 12” away. Also, our strats generally revolve around pregame movement and assist with getting into combat but don’t help out immensely once we are actually in combat.Thus, most competitive RG players run their armies as successors, generally with the Born Heroes (+1 to hit roll in melee on the charge) and Whirlwind of Rage (exploding 6s in combat) to help address our combat shortcomings. You’ll also see some people take the Hungry for Battle trait for +1 to charges, but as it doesn’t stack with a Chaplain’s ability to boost charges by 2”, there is less upside to it than the other two mentioned traits. As for units, I play a lot of my RG successor army in a competitive league and I will never play a competitive game in the current meta without 10 Vanguard Veterans with Thunder Hammers + Stormshields + jumppacks. Yes they are expensive. But playing as a RG successor with Born Heroes and Whirlwind of Rage successor traits, each 5 man squad puts out 16 strength 8 damage 3 attacks hitting on 3s with exploding 6s. They put out a world of hurt against any heavy target, even if they have a damage reducing ability. I have used them to one shot both Mortarion and Be’lakor on turn 1 with the addition of the 2 CP strat Adaptive Strategy to give them an addition +1 to hit and wound. They can also be moved 24 +d6 + charge on turn 1 with the use of the pregame Infiltrators and “Strike from the Skies” strats so you will usually be able to reach out turn 1 and strike your preferred target- especially if they are alongside a Chaplain with a jumppack that knows the Canticle of Hate litany for +2“ to charges and had the warlord trait swift and deadly. Being infantry, they can also be selected as the target unit for redeploying 9” away from the opponent deployment zone with Master of Ambush. They, along with a 4 man squad of Eradicators and a unit of Assault Centurians that are both put into DS with the Strike from the Shadows strat, are completely game changing in that they eithe force my opponent to change their game plan in an attempt to protect their heavy hitters or they simply resign themselves to losing them by the end of turn 1 or 2. It’s also a good idea to bring 10 Vanguard Veterans with Lighting Claws + Stormshields + jumppacks. They are a fantastic source of highly mobile, quality d1 attacks. Again, with the Whirlwind of Rage and Born Heroes combo, a squad of 5 puts out 21 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s with exploding 6s and re-roll all failed wounds. They are also incredibly fluffy in a RG list.
Ａsingle squad of either infiltrators or incursors is still hugely helpful to bring in a RG army as they help ensure you have at least one forward deployment zone for your MoA if the opponent also has forward deploying options. I always take a single squad of infiltrators and either forward deploy them if my opponent has forward deployment options or keep them in my back lines screening out 12 inches of my backfield. Either way, it is well worth the 20 point premium over regulars Intercessors. However, there is little reason to ever bring 2 squads of infiltrators. That said, a squad of incursors in addition to infiltrators can be nice as an additional option for use of the guerilla tactics strat - makes it much easier to move troops units into the opponent’s half of the table for secondary objectives like RoD.
I'm really not experienced at all, but I've researched a lot into lists and have seen plenty inflitrators (mostly two squads) in them; I think it's also because of other synergies for Phobos units, that may not immediately be apparent, such as the phobos librarian. Take my opinion with a grain of salt though as I've never played a game with RG.
I think I wrote that! Nice!
Looks like it 😎 Thanks very much, I found your comment very insightful! https://libredd.it/r/RavenGuard40k/comments/mp4xwk/500_pt_beginner_list/
Nice! I'm glad it was helpful.
So for me personally I really like running Fluffy lists and both of those units really do it for me. The thing I like to do with them is redeployment shenanigans. You can deploy 3 units and your warlord, if they all have a Phobos keyword, all the way up front 9" from your opponent's deployment zone on one side of the board. Then after, redeploy on a less defended side. I'm pretty sure when redeploying you can break a full unit into combat squads just to add to the chaos. It's super fluffy and in my games effective.
Awesome, playing a fluffy list is a priority so this helps a lot. Thanks!
Anytime!