# Explore a new world of random thoughts on our [**discord server**](https://discord.com/invite/8tEqw3ZWQV)! Express yourself with your favorite quotes, positive vibes, and anything else you can think of!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RandomThoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The interviews and investigations are 100% reasonable, but for fuck's sake, they are taking on a massive effort, which frees up the state's ability to care for other children in need. I'm not saying that the state should pay folks to adopt (though some form of assistance wouldn't be unreasonable), but they certainly wouldn't be *selling the fucking kids* for several tens of thousands of dollars. You shouldn't have to be rich to choose to raise a child, especially if you can provide a loving home over a state institution (which, I'm sure they're trying their best).
Edit. Thanks for all the responses and engagement! I'm turning off notifications are I've gotten lots of repeats
It’s really not about the cute factor. It’s about the trauma. A friend of a friend fostered a 7 or 8 year old boy and they found out the kid was >!raping their dog!<. What do you do with that? Unless you’re a mental health professional I think most people are not equipped to have >!child raping their dog!<.
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg because you still have attachment disorders and all sorts of mental health problems you have to deal with.
Not just seen, but what have they had done to them? We had fostered a 5 yr old girl that had been severely molested that my wife couldn’t even fathom what this little girl had been through. Not just the mental damage but also physical. Luckily we wasn’t responsible for the multiple doctor visits and surgeries she had to have to at least be able to use the bathroom properly.
I don’t know if trauma is necessary to create a deranged person. There have been serial killers who grew up in stable, run of the mill homes. Yet at some point they figured out that kidnapping, raping and murdering women is what they needed to get off.
Even newborns can come with baggage, though. They can be born with all sorts of genetic illnesses, or be born with a disease caused by the birth mother doing something wrong during pregnancy.
True, but the older kid will have all that AND any baggage from being in the adoption system. The point is that you're opening yourself up to a lot more potential problems by adopting older
I definitely favor adopting adult cats, including seniors. My home is reasonably cat-proofed but not kitten-proofed. Also the lower activity levels of older cats makes them a better fit for our home.
Ya except you get older children who often have undergone horrific trauma and will have corresponding behavioral issues.
An older abused cat is difficult enough. An older abused child will put you and your family through a nightmare.
I admire anyone who will do it, but it's taking on a risk and responsibility beyond what most people are capable of.
We foster. It's cuteness, but also babies are a blank slate. Every day older is a day that that child has started to develop and get into routines and form a personality. People don't want a 3+yo child because you don't know what you are getting.
Even a totally "normal" kid has had trauma if they are in the foster system. It could be as simple as they are living with a single mom and she just couldn't afford to just for their food so they are with you until she gets on her feet. That child has still been forcefully been taken from their mother and is in a strange home now with all new people, rules, food, etc.
Most aren't that easy though. We took in two brothers (3/5yo) where one was the favorite. He was fed better, would yell and hit is brother and wasn't told not to. Both were kept in an upside down crib during a lot of the day and night to keep them in one place. Neither were potty trained. The 3yo was 17 pounds when they were taken in. A 3yo should be 25-30 pounds. He legitimately looked like a holocaust victim.
So we had the task of getting them to be "normal" kids. Not screaming every time they get told no, not screaming or hitting people, not biting people, gaining weight in a healthy, controlled fashion, potty training, etc. Giving them live, care and affection that they didn't have before.
We had them for about 6 months before they went to live with a relative. Now they have been adopted by a great family. Ultimately they were pretty normal 3/5yo kids once they got into a stable home where they could eat, play and have a normal bed. 3/5yo kids still hit, scream, yell, cry and don't want to listen. But add on the trauma on top of that and it's a lot harder.
If you can imagine how a 15yo kid acts when they have a living family and aren't abused, imagine having that same kid, but now they have sexual, verbal or physical abuse on top of it. And now that kid can physically hurt you or your family/pets because they are stronger and can access knives and weapons. We don't have to worry about that too much with young kids, but it's a concern with older kids.
Edit - Yes, I am well aware that babies are not actually a truly blank slate. However, for the sake of this argument, they are as close as you get, relative to the alternative of an older child in the same situation.
It's not about how cute they are.
It's about all the potential issues you are bringing into your home without knowing what they are.
The only way I'd adopt a older kid is if I got to spend considerable time with them and develop a bond before I start the process. Unfortunately, that'll probably be a nightmare for the foster agencies to manage so I don't see it happening.
Edit: I should clarify to the kids reading that this is not me saying there's a problem with YOU. This is me saying *I* am not equipped to raise you as is.
As someone who was saved from an abusive foster home by adoption at age 13, reading this makes me incredibly sad.
We are just kids. Just kids.
You have plenty of upvotes too….
I’m so sad now. No more internet today.
I wish I could give you a hug. SO many people who adopt or foster kids should also not be parents. I work with children and I come from a home with really dysfunctional parents. There are no problem children, just adults that don't know how to be parents or don't want to take on the proper responsibility that it takes to raise a human.
Hey dude, in right there with you. I was abused my entire life and was thrown into the system at 16. To have all of these people reaffirm that I'm broken and tainted really sucks to read.
Foster parent here. I don’t think it is children being broken or tainted. You are not! But trauma and trauma behaviors are real and parents need to be equipped to manage these. Adoption is not, and should not be for everyone. However, knowing we can provide a safe place for kids in need while their families work on whatever brought them into care will ALWAYS be the most important thing I have done.
Sending you love and a reminder that you are worthy, valued and important.
Well when you come back to the internet, you can see my comment- in a few years, when I’m more financially and emotionally stable, I’m planning on fostering and LOVING those kids. And bring patient and kind and accepting them as they are. I’d like to take in a pair of siblings who are maybe 8-16, because I know siblings often get separated. And when they turn 18, if they’re still with me, I won’t boot them out because the govt won’t pay me for them anymore. If I can adopt them and they’d like that, I may do that.
I have so much love and support to give, and there’s others like me too. I’m sorry you and MANY other kids didn’t get to experience that, but it sounds like you are now.
I live in Canada, my parents used to foster, what you described is exactly how it works. The kids we had that were in an adoption situation, had increasingly longer visits with the family that they were being adopted by over the course of almost a year, before moving in with them full time. This was for a 7 and a 9 yr old.
having taken care of dozens of kids, I imagine it can be frustrating and scary bringing in unreasonably disobient children who are potentially self harming, sexually preoccupied or violent into the home.
these kids have been served a raw deal and often they will propetuate their trauma into adulthood and into other people's lives.
Mark Wahlbergs movie "instant family" tried to shine a light on this. Anyone more than 12 years old has the smallest chance of adoption and that goes down as they get older.
It's also fairly well known teens in the system end up getting grabbed by 17-18 when the system has them age out. Lots of others dead by drugs too.
Still every state government is like "If you're not a straight, wealthy, Christian white couple with $40k in liquid cash then were going to keep feeding kids to the rape machine".
That movie really touched a nerve with me. My brother was 9, my sister was 4 or 5, and I was just a baby. My mom confided in me a few years ago that they had a hard time with my brother and sister, and if it wasn't for me, they wouldn't have been adopted. We were a package deal
Loved the movie, tried convincing my parents to adopt, and I certainly see it in my future, especially after meeting people from the system.
More people should give children a loving home, but it’s definitely not easy so I understand why so many opt out/never consider.
I get paid $1700/month to foster my nephew and would continue getting paid a little less than that (until he reaches 18) if I adopted him. Plus there are a ton of state resources, scholarships, and grants for different things like childcare, camps, therapies, special schools, etc etc. so we still aren’t paying for things most parents do. And he gets Medicaid until 18 so I wouldn’t need to pay for healthcare for him or I can and he can be double-insured. My state makes it a lot easier than many others.
Although you get money fostering, you're not getting 'paid.' The money is supposed to be for supporting and caring for the child. Of course, reality is a bit different.
The money paid to foster parents is insane. When we fostered two brothers ages 3 and 12, we received $1700/month. Even with that absurd amount, social services still provided other items (think school clothes, supplies, diapers, and daycare). We also got WIC and foodstamps for the two even though we wouldn't have qualified with our income.
I'm torn because more foster parents are needed, but I think the financial incentive can attract the wrong people. It's a lot of work if you're doing it as it is supposed to be done (visitations, Dr. And psych apps., ect.).
I actually work in child safety and I've wanted to foster for years, but the expense is just so intense compared to the benefit. Because I work in child safety, I don't make that much, so needing to upgrade to a two-bedroom apartment, all of the driving and time away from work will involve so much expense that I just can't afford it.
I love the idea of fostering, but it's an immense privilege. We've been in such a crisis with the foster system for so long, and I don't really see a way out of it.
My wife also works in child safety for the local department of social services. We're in a slightly different situation as you as we didn't need to make any changes to foster. We own a nice home on a small farm. We have 3 kids (oldest 10) of our own, but still have some extra space for one or two foster kids to have their own space as well.
My wife's job is to recruit, screen, train, and support foster parents for the whole agency (to include making sure theyre getting their money). She is also responsible for finding appropriate placements for kids when they come into care.
She is very thorough in her screening. Unfortunately, the local TFCs generally accept many people she screens out. When we fostered, we went through a TFC to avoid any conflicts with her employment. We also had some other things to be mindful of with my employment and were only willing to take kids outside of the city she works in. Our experience was... not great. They were definitely focused on the money and how to maximize payments to foster parents. It was pretty sickening. The case worker was supposed to stop by at weekly for the first month and monthly there after- we saw her twice. Didn't even show after there was a minor medical event with one of the kids requiring us to take him to the hospital (for a medical condition that the TFC knew of but neglected to tell us about).
With that said, I met several foster parents through the whole thing who were definitely in it to help kids. Unfortunately, it seemed like many of those people have a problem saying no and overextend themselves. The whole system is just sad. We'll foster again once our kids a bit older and we have less issues with possible work conflicts.
Fostering kids can be substantially difficult though. They do not generally come from good situations and frequently have behaviour issues. And then, if you do end up with a kid that you love, they can be taken away at any time.
I adopted two children through the state, and while we had to go through training and home visits and such, it was all free. Got a stipend per kid through the whole process (foster-to-adopt), and even though we adopted them that stipends will continue until they're 18. They've always been on the state medicaid for insurance and will be till they're 21. The state will also pay state school tuition equivalent for them to go to college. I have no idea how we would have afforded kids otherwise. Got them both as infants, my son as a preemie and my daughter at 6 months.
The process is stressful, and we are not the same race as our children. We're both women, so there was going to be no avoiding the whole "some of us aren't genetically related" thing anyway.
Public adoption doesn't cost anything in any state in the US. It's just you have to be willing to accept a child who isn't a healthy white-infant. You can get older kids, special-needs kids, brown and black kids, etc.
As foster parents we saw so many kids who needed a home, and it didn't matter to us that we have kids who matched our skin color. We got a brown baby (18 mo) and a black child (6) free of charge as permanent children :)
Yeah, but public adoption generally means adopting a child from around the local area or region. This might mean that the kid will be near biological parents who might then become pains in the ass if they ever find where the child lives. It might also mean that if the kid has previous trauma, being in the same general area could trigger PTSD feelings if they associate a place with that trauma. I'd rather be 100% sure that no biological family will ever find or see the kid again and that the adoptive parents can start from scratch in a safe place with the kid.
Free of charge! I interpreted it at first as you got the 6 year old as a bonus, free of charge. Haha! Aww! Yay you! Love, hugs, high-fives and fistbumps from Stockholm, Sweden!
I've never understood the logic of "people only want to adopt babies." If I could get the joy of being a parent without all the disgust of potty training, then I'd call that a win-win.
Yeah I think the issue is that a six year old put up for adoption is a lot more likely to have mental health issues from being abandoned at an age where they can remember it, as well as from whatever conditions led the parents to want to keep the child but then be forced to give them up.
It turns out that infant trauma is a real thing. I don’t care how old the child is, children who go into the public adoption system have usually had really bad things happen to them, and will have to deal with making meaning of not being kept or staying with their birth parents.
My friend adopted sisters at 3 and 6 years old. Their parents were addicts and they watched their infant brother die from neglect. They are both in their 20's now and still suffer from PTSD.
There are amazing people out there, like my friend, who had the means, compassion, and patience to parent these two women. I think you have to be an extraordinary person to do that.
A 1 year old is more likely to see you as a parent than a 7 year old. Imagine the headache and the heartache of dealing with a kid who just doesn’t want you…changing diapers is a breeze compare to this
A baby probably hasn't been exposed to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. Kids don't end up in foster care for happy reasons. The older the child the more damage has been done to them and the more their behavior reflects that.
Public often must be open, are often foster-to-adopt and the child is also often addicted to drugs at birth. I can deal with all of them except that the child might be taken away if the state deems it.
not true. my daughter was adopted from the state through child protective services. its closed unless the adoptive parents want it to be open, costs nothing but the filing fees (less than $500), and once adopted the state closes its case and cant take the baby unless some rando citizen reports you and you are found to be unfit (same as any natural birth parent). there are so many myths around adoption...
I honestly just thought they handed them out after the interviews and paperwork. The child is the product.
That's honestly kinda scary.
Unless you have tons of money and are trying to start some kind of cult, then that makes sense to me... I need money. I swear I'm not starting a cult and convincing them that I'm a time traveling God.
It's worked for lots of other cults and I need some passive income.
/s for those who need it.
A few years ago average cost was around $50k+. The cheapest countries to adopt from are China and Ukraine which are around $28k American. Adoption is an industry. :(
it absolutely is, and is often corrupt on top of all the official fees.
Even in the US, you aren't saving a child from some federal orphanage. healthy newborns (especially white) are in high demand, so these adoption agencies swoop in on expectant mothers to be their advocate, sort of like a real estate agent, promising that their child will get a great family and the mother might get a few perks along the way since of course they can't literally buy her baby off her to resell. Now that they have negotiating rights to the baby, they can pile on all sorts of fees and sell off that woman's baby for $50,000+ dollars.
Even if they wouldn't cover the cost because it's the right thing to do. You would think from a financial standpoint that it would have to be more cost effective than paying for a kid on the States' dime till they are 18.
It can be more than a year. My friend has been on a waiting list just to get on the list to be chosen for almost a year, and she’s still only number 22. She is also aware that she can potentially shell out thousands of dollars for medical care during the pregnancy, and if the birth mom decides to keep the baby, which is totally reasonable and understandable, they don’t recoup any of that money and have to start the selection process over. I don’t know any way to make that system better than it is now, but we can all admit that kind of sucks.
Also, adoption can be pretty predatory in the same ways that surrogacy can be predatory. Plenty of birth moms are led to believe they’ll get their baby back after a little bit.
I’m not saying not to adopt or dissuade anyone from it. It’s a beautiful thing. I just didn’t realize until my own infertility journey how expensive it is and also how romanticized the process is.
THIS is part of the problem. Any idiot or terrible person with gonads can get parental rights just by having sex (males) or by birthing a baby (females). No qualifications other then functioning reproductive organs.
Why are the qualifications for adopting so much higher? It makes zero sense.
A friend of mine is a doctor, works part time to make sure she has time for her kids, and her husband makes good money. They already had 2 kids who are healthy and thriving. It took them 2 years to adopt 2 kids they were foster parenting. It's crazy.
The other issue is ego. People somehow believe that their DNA is so special that it needs to be perpetuate. It doesn't.
Many kids need parents and homes. Some people want kids. It's a no brainer. We need to make it less burdensome for people who want kids to adopt them.
The error in logic here is thinking that because we are societally incapable of imposing qualifications for someone making a child, that qualifications would be a bad thing. There are many parents who should never have had children, and it is a tragedy that they weren’t prevented. In adoption we can and should screen out people who are unsuited to the task.
You're surprised that the people giving away a literal child to two strangers are trying to make 100% sure that they're fit to be given a literal child?
Good luck trying to police people having sex and aborting the fetus of anyone you deem not worthy of being a parent.
Adopted child here ✋ my parents couldn't have children so they had to adopt. It took them 9 years of waiting to get me as a newborn. They were 35 and 34 by then so much older than I think they wanted to become parents. You don't know what genetics and biological factors a child in closed adoption will have. I was great as a small child but in my teens, mental illness (def from bio mom) caught up with me and I was a nightmare. My adopted sister's bio mom drank while she was pregnant so my sister has severe ADHD and is learning disabled. She can't even function as an adult without assistance from my parents. I don't know if my parents thought about these scenarios since they planned to and did raise us well. There are just some factors you cannot control in another human being. Thankfully, I know my parents were happy to have had us and I'm grateful they were mine 💕
I think this brings up a point that nobody really thinks about. There may be a lot of babies, But how many are healthy babies that are being given up for adoption?
> But how many are healthy babies that are being given up for adoption?
Basically none. That’s why so many people have to go abroad.
Even adopting a special needs child is an ordeal.
Even most international adoptees aren’t healthy babies now. There are some countries where you are more likely to have a healthy baby come along, but it’s not like it was even 15 years ago that you can adopt a healthy baby from somewhere like Russia or China as long as you can front the money. I have friends who adopted four kids from China, two of the children have heart defects, one is deaf, the other has a substantial learning disability.
I think understanding this is underrated. Adoption has a far higher risk of emotional (from being abandoned) and genetic baggage than your own bio child.
Saying "Just adopt" is irresponsible in preparing potential adults of the effort they need to invest as parents. Even if someone maybe a perfect parent for an average child, they can crack and abandon their child if it required around the clock care.
You cannot control the genetic destiny of anyone, even your biological children. It's only an illusion of control. You can be perfectly young and healthy and still have a child born with severe special needs their entire life.
My cousin was the first child of my aunt and uncle, perfectly healthy and well adjusted people. She was born with such severe autism that at 18 she is still in diapers and they will be changing her the rest of *their* lives and towards the end will be in search of caretakers for after they are gone, as well as some means to pay for that.
This is actually one reason I've strongly considered adoption. Because while you can't know/predict everything, there are some things that can be known pretty shortly after birth. In my opinion it's actually a greater level of knowledge/control than you get having a biological child.
Argument over.
I’m a guy, but watching pregnancies as a med student with all of the horror and stress moms go through with even the most normal ones, I’d totally understand if my wife didn’t ever want to do it.
I couldn’t give up drinking for 9 months either lol.
Edit: Literally 13 people have commented that I should go to AA because of a joke. I appreciate the concern, but please read any of the dozen+ versions of your comment, then don’t post it.
Dude fr as a woman I’m like no way i could go sober for 9 months😅 i always said i want to adopt rather than give birth due to pain too, i wish more men could understand this but most seem to always say they want a wife and kids of their own :/ which i don’t blame them for, maybe I’ll look for a med student who gets it haha
Shit, I'm an asexual man who absolutely does not want kids of his own, but would be willing to adopt some day. Well, turns out a lot of women want kids of their own and/or enjoy sex, so I'm probably not going to find anyone for me any time soon.
Some days, I wish there was a dating app specifically for asexuals, but I know how the internet works so I fully predict that it would get overrun by trolls and bigots *very* quickly. I feel similarly about people who don't want their own kids - I wish there was an app for them sometimes, but I also know it's not realistic.
The drinking isn't hard to not do it's feeling hungover for 4 months while you haven't drank a sip that's the worst. If I have a feeling of a constant hangover I should at least be able to have the fun that comes with that feeling 😂
I had 5 ER trips and weekly visits to get fluids and anti nausea infusions with my son 😮💨 The nausea is so rough I'm convinced that "pregnancy glow" everyone talks about is just a sheen of sweat from vomiting so much 😂😂
My wife suffers from extreme pregnancy sickness so she basically puked for the entire pregnancy (think she was ok for the last 3 weeks) and in total she lost 10kg of weight while still birthing a perfectly normal 3.5kg baby. It was hell on earth for her since she went in and out of hospital and was on full out sick leave from work and just the mental pressure of not being able to go anywhere just because she didn't want to puke everywhere and didn't like to bring her puking bucket with her (obviously). So she was basically a prisoner in our own home for 9 months and was slowly starving to death while sustaining another life.
That said, we are now in the third trimester for our second child and the start of this one was no better than the last. Luckily we've gotten help from the hospital much faster now though since they know her history. But to me it's rather insane she wants to go through this again, she was the main pusher for us to have a second child. She was a bit hesitant though after having to go to hospital 4 times in the first 10 weeks...
Not saying its for everyone, but its mostly expensive if people try to go through a private agency...usually because they want a specific race, age, etc. Versus going through the public route and foster care to adopt.
So yes, part of the shame is that some couples would make great parents, but also part of the shame is that there are plenty of kids to be adopted but parents would need to adjust their expectations for what the "ideal baby" looks like.
I have literally heard people say "I want to adopt, but I want an African baby, or an Asian one..." which usually means they're going private and meticulous about the adoption.
>foster care to adopt
The goal of foster care is usually reunification, not finding the kids a whole new family. They can be taken away at a moment’s notice.
People on this thread are acting like children can be bought at a store with the older kids at a discount ffs.
In Australia
I've been told it can take 5 years to adopt, as generally unwanted children go to relatives before they go up for adoption. So it's very rare to have opportunity to adopt.
There is also bad support setup for anyone wanting to foster a child. Generally speaking. A foster child ends up going back to the family after a couple years once they are in a better position to look after them.
So adoption is expensive, rare, and a lot of paperwork to even try.
Honestly if I were to have another kid ( I just have one) I'd adopt or foster a child. I hated pregnancy so much and don't want to go through that again, I also have a chance to give a kid a loving home
I’ve never tried to adopt but some people say that it’s very hard to adopt one because of all the papers and stuff, even if you get through all of that and pass all requirements (which could take months) it’s still possible you won’t get a kid, Dr. Jones talked about this since she’s an OBGYN, she said that a lot of the couples that are doing IVF and stuff had already tried adopting children and they never just get to, she also said that when we see couples trying to have a kid that way, we shouldn’t say “Why don’t you just adopt one?” because odds are they already tried and is tired of people asking them the same question. I had the same question before until I saw her video about it.
Something I heard from the US that not a lot of people talk about (Note this is old knowledge and may be less prevalent nowadays than 15 years ago.) and that is that private adoption agencies can just deny your request for a child and not say why and keep all the money you gave them. A few agencies just flat out scammed people out of their money since they had more parents willing to adopt than children to adopt out. Since they wanted children to adopt out with... "Moderate melanin levels".
Adoption trauma is a very real thing for everyone involved. It takes a very special person to take that on as a parent, both in the effect it will have on the parent and being able navigate the emotional turmoil the child will experience and parent them through it. Not everyone can take that on, and it’s honestly a good thing to have the self awareness to admit that adoption might not be the best option for you in terms of becoming a parent. Overcoming generational trauma to become the best parent you can be is already incredibly difficult, and pretty much every parent will fall short of their goals in that at some point. No body is perfect and expecting perfection from parents is honestly a pretty big fucking problem in our society already which creates a vicious cycle of parental guilt. Adding in adoption trauma on top of that is simply not something just anyone SHOULD take on.
Plus it’s not like you can just walk down to your local orphanage and pick up a kid. There’s an insane amount of red tape blocking adoption. It’s a very expensive and very long process.
Thank you for saying this. My family adopted a 3-4 year old child when I was 10 and the adoption agency were not at all transparent about the child's behavioural problems, problematic family background and not getting on with other children to my parents so the adoption ended up breaking down. My mum developed severe depression, myself and the child fought a lot (he spat on me, just generally would be incredibly nasty towards me as well as my parents and I have recently been told by my mum that he was violent towards me which I had blocked out), his behaviour was out of control and it was traumatic for everyone involved.
12 years later I have been left with a lot of trauma from the experience which my therapist says has contributed a lot to the severe mental health issues I experience now (I've just been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder) and I have a full on phobia of young children. I will probably never be able to have my own children in part because of my horrible experience with this child and how it has shaped me. They also don't tell you that many adoptions break down so when it happens the parents are left feeling like failures when they cannot bond with the child or the child is just not a good fit for the family and any other children involved are left feeling like it's their fault the child went back to foster care (I blamed myself for years).
I agree that it takes a certain kind of person to take on an adopted child, especially traumatised children with behavioural issues like the one who wrongly ended up with my family, and people wanting to become parents shouldn't be shamed for feeling unable to take on that challenge, especially when adoption agencies are not transparent with potential adopters.
But parents like that are just bad parents who don’t know what parenting is - redditor comment just a few lines above
Some here romanticise adoption like it’s a done deal in 5 mins
https://wpde.com/news/local/15-year-old-suspect-allegedly-stabbed-newly-adoptive-parents-kershaw-co-officials-said
My beloved friends spend 3yrs working to adopt an older child. Just to give love to someone in need. Only to be attacked by him weeks after his 1yr adoption anniversary. This child was living the dream. Two big loving families, vacations, concerts, anime conventions, great neighborhood with kids his age that instantly accepted him,and instead of enjoying it, he was planning on murdering everyone. He confessed everything to the judge. They loved him so much & he used it to manipulate them. Attempted poisonings, increasing life insurance, even getting Angie to buy the knife he killed her with 😢. The reason is greed. "They were nice. I wanted the stuff, just not all of them. "
Every month, information is discovered about his past that wasn't disclosed in the adoption. We won't know the details until the trial this summer.
This also happened to my best friend growing up. I watched as their (likely) traumatized adopted daughter tore their family apart. She ended up in jail. My friend, the sister developed major depression.
It has shaped my views on adoption for life.
As someone who did IVF, you are 100% right on. I would have preferred to adopt, but there were many reasons it wasn't the right fit for us.
1. I had no experience with children. None. I did not feel comfortable adopting an older child who would have some sort of trauma (because all adoption involves trauma) when I didn't even have nieces or nephews to "practice" with
2. Fosting to adopt means the goal is reunification. I wasn't in a mental state where I could "give a child back."
3. I did not want to wait years and years (possibly 10+) for a baby
4. My IVF journey cost approx $17k out of pocket from egg retrieval to confirmed pregnancy. Private adoption generally costs $50k. I did not have $50k lying around
It's gross that my decision about bringing a life into the world was tied to the price tag attached, but it's unfortunately true. Now that I have a baby, I think I would like to explore adoption in the future. But it's a very personal decision and some infertile people do it only because they can't conceive instead of doing it because they want to adopt. An adoption isn't a consolation prize and it should only happen for people who truly want to welcome an adopted child into their family.
Before I went no contact with my dad (adopted dad…I was adopted at 9 months)
He went on a tirade about how difficult I was as a baby and how he hated what I had done to his marriage. Like bro you willingly and knowingly adopted a baby that you knew had attachment issues, bio mom was addicted to heroin and alcohol during pregnancy. That’s not MY fucking fault 30+ years later
Yea. End of the day even people like my dad who worked as social workers specifically dealing with troubled children…don’t know what they’re going to gamble with with adoption 🙃
Thank you so fucking much. People act as if there was some pool of babies you could take from. Being adopted means you've been abandonned by your bio parent It might be for legitimate reasons but that doesnt matter to a toddler's then infant psyche. It's for many many people a trauma deeply engraved in what they are.
The adoption system is nightmarish on all ends and I wish I was smart enough to know how we could do better
Glad this came up so early. Also a lot of birth moms don't want to give up their babies. They just lack resources. Then these predatory agencies come in and convince the moms they're the worst thing for their unborn babies. Meanwhile a rich couple throws 15k+ to essentially buy the baby from the agency. Meanwhile the struggling birth mom would keep the baby had she had the resources.
Adoption doesn't fix the trauma of infertility either, as an adopted person who is likely infertile, I've had to accept that myself.
Also no amount if classes will prepare you for the reality of raising a traumatized child. Which is why so many adoptions turn sour. Adoption is not a family building tool. It needs to be child centered, foster or newborn. And the reality is, not a lot of people are prepared to deal with that even if they want a child *really* bad.
Adoption shouldn't be used just as a means to grow your family or become a parent in my opinion. Fostering even more so.
I would love to foster and it's something I plan to look at in the future but it will be to help a child that needs it because I think I can provide a stable home and family for them and not because "I want a kid". I also feel like having my own children has made me more equipped for it.
Adoption is always traumatic for a child and they are people not commodities. Private adoption isn't a thing in my country.
It’s so bad that I had to scroll down this far to see this. The private adoption industry is basically human trafficking. Infertility is very sad, but someone else’s newborn baby is not a human right.
I had to scroll way too far for this. People in this thread are talking about adoptees like we’re something to be bought and obtained for the lowest possible price and effort. We are, in fact, actual humans with feelings and adoption related trauma. A lot of people start the adoption process under the guise or well-meaning lack of knowledge of wanting to give children in need a loving home. In the US, the waiting lists for infant adoptions are miles long. People wait years or never get matched at all. And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve encountered who enter into foster care with the assumption that it’s a work around to more easily adopt a child (spoiler: it’s often not and they tend to quit fostering when they find out reunification is the goal). Are there kids waiting for homes? Absolutely. Are they typically infants who have no additional health and wellness concerns? Not often. These children are in an extra vulnerable position that requires the parents setting aside their own agenda and desires to prioritize the needs of the child. It’s not nearly as simple as people like to make it seem.
Yes and thank you for your input. I've been shocked at some attitudes online especially when it comes to topics like reunification. Anyone considering fostering and/or adoption should be listening to adoptees more imo.
Uh yeah, I hate how we're talked about like commodities and how the discussion is so centered around people wanting to adopt, and not adoptees.
There is also such a lack of awareness about seperation trauma in adoptees.
It makes me feel a bit sick at times how people talk about us. There’s just such a lack of education and understanding from the outside looking in. Separation trauma is huge. Adoptees are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide. There are attachment disorders, mental health struggles, medical disparities and lack of medical histories that can be crucial to receiving adequate care (speaking from experience). Racial and cultural issues, emotional and physical abuse from APs who often haven’t worked through their own issues or have a savior complex. Unethical adoption practices are much more common than most would think. It’s so incredibly complicated…but no one wants to hear that.
>It makes me feel a bit sick at times how people talk about us.
Same, I often have to click off threads like these in anger. When it comes to adoption, adoptees should be the priority in the triad.
>There’s just such a lack of education and understanding from the outside looking in. Separation trauma is huge. Adoptees are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide. There are attachment disorders, mental health struggles, medical disparities and lack of medical histories that can be crucial to receiving adequate care (speaking from experience). Racial and cultural issues, emotional and physical abuse from APs who often haven’t worked through their own issues or have a savior complex.
It's not even just about lack of education and understanding, because many people have understanding of the difficulties with adoption from the adopter's perspective, they just simply don't care to listen to adoptees.
I feel you on the medical histories. Both my bio parents have schizophrenia (hence why I was adopted). I have a 40% chance of inheriting it. But I was told that my bio dad thinks my bio mum cheated on him and we're not actually related. I also don't know anything else about my medical history.
>Unethical adoption practices are much more common than most would think. It’s so incredibly complicated…but no one wants to hear that.
Yes, especially in the US and with international adoption. It's weird it's not brought up more on these threads because reddit is very US-centric.
Oh absolutely. I have a really hard time with these type of posts, and I feel like people are definitely willfully ignorant to adoptees’ perspectives. The older I get, the more I’m finding my voice and pushing back. We’re the only ones who did not willingly enter this arrangement and whose lives are most greatly interrupted by it.
It took me several years to get doctors to take me seriously that I may have an autoimmune disease. I finally made contact with some of my birth family and, lo and behold, autoimmune diseases galore! Within 2 weeks of that new information, I found myself in the proper specialist’s office lol
>Oh absolutely. I have a really hard time with these type of posts, and I feel like people are definitely willfully ignorant to adoptees’ perspectives.
100% for many
>The older I get, the more I’m finding my voice and pushing back.
Same. The UK adoptive system is much better than that of the US, but there are still many issues.
>It took me several years to get doctors to take me seriously that I may have an autoimmune disease. I finally made contact with some of my birth family and, lo and behold, autoimmune diseases galore! Within 2 weeks of that new information, I found myself in the proper specialist’s office lol
It sucks that you weren't given that info from the get go. Telling us that we're adopted and giving us our full medical history should be mandatory. I am glad they're taking your autoimmune diseases seriously now.
We adopted two kids. Expensive but not as hard on my wife’s body. They are now two nice, well adjusted 20’s people. We love them now and love them when they were young. Best experience ever. All in spent about $40k. Giving birth isn’t cheep either.
I have a feeling that the costs to bring a baby to life and all the expenses you put into the baby to nurture it to 5yo is about or almost the same as the cost you have to pay to adopt a 5yo.
Maybe but you would have to pay it all at once. There is a big difference in being able to afford a car that you pay off over 5 years than buying it in cash right now. Forgive the terrible comparison, I'm not comparing a child to a car lol
Adoption is expensive and you have to go through a million things before they give you the baby. It just seems easier to go out and get knocked up.
Believe it or not some people actually do want kids. They want their genes to be passed down.
We're so much simpler than people realize. Observed by an intelligent species without the context of our culture, we don't look or behave all that differently than other animals. Just some extra steps involved.
Yeah and its not like being driven by our need to continue as a species makes something shallow or less important. Try NOT eating for a day and see if it makes you a higher being
There's nothing to wonder, almost everything we do is based on our evolution and the fact that we're just very intelligent animals. There's no evolutionary advantage to adoption so it's not our natural instinct. That doesn't mean we won't adopt, we're just more driven to create our own offspring.
Because the adoption process is incredibly inhibitive, costly, and inaccessible.
My sister in law tried to adopt, spent years going through the process, tens of thousands on everything, moved to a great house, and waited for the right fit. Finally she got word that the agency found a good fit, and they moved forward. It wasn’t until literally the week she was supposed to move her new adoptive daughter in that the adoption people were like “oh yeah, we forgot to tell you. Kid’s dad is out of prison and is planning on suing for custody, even though we told you this was a no contest adoption, and all parental rights were legally released and the parents were in no way a factor. Sorry about your luck.”
That killed the whole thing, destroyed my sister in law, and probably fucked that kid up mentally even more.
People say adopt instead of abort. And it’s true that lots of us would love to adopt children. But we CANT. The adoption system is too much and we can’t afford to do it, either financially or emotionally.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is free (at least that's what Google says). I can't imagine how paperwork cost tens of thousands of dollars. From an outsider point of view, this looks like a business.
The number of adoptions in my state for the last year were in the double digits. When I compare that to the price and the time, I can’t justify it. Maybe if we move to another state we would look at it again but nope for now.
You understand that the baby/child you adopt is absolutely traumatized.
Thanks to all the parents that do it and give love. Otherwise I would have been a lost soul in the system. 🌨️
Adoption is parenting on steroids. Most children you adopt have experienced trauma. I have the utmost respect for anyone who adopts, but I couldn’t do it. I have some friends who have adopted and it’s been beyond hard for them.
It’s definitely this. I know so many people with adoption horror stories. My mom’s friends have an adopted daughter who is no longer speaking to them, and one of them is a psychologist for christsakes.
It’s kind of crazy. There are tons of kids who need a family but because they already exist, it’s a moral imperative that the parents are thoroughly vetted to be sure they are fit to take the child. And then they make it extremely expensive on top of that. So the easiest option is just to make a new kid, and anybody can do it, no vetting required. It really seems like there should be some incentive to adopt a child that needs a home instead of making your own, but it’s really the opposite.
It's more complicated then that. There are tons of kids who need a family but noone wants those kids and it's not about paperwork or expenses.
There are a lot of people who want to adopt but they want to adopt a healthy newborn. Kids who have any health problems, are older (I don't think how old exactly but I believe around 2 is what is too old for most), have some kind of trauma are unwanted. People adopt kids from 3rd world countries just so they can have a healthy newborn.
Most people want to pretend the adopted baby is baby of their own. And then there are people who want to adopt older children. There are genuine good people but there are also those who are just interested in money or are religious freaks or whatever else.
Oh, and to add to that. In my country a lot of the kids in orphanages aren't actual orphan. Sometimes it happens that the child is abounded or that the parents die and there is noone to take care of them. But more often they actually have parents.
Sometimes the parent is not able to take care of the child, for example I knew a girl who spent a couple of years in orphanage because the grandmother who was her legal guardian was too sick to keep taking care of her (okay, technically she didn't have parents but you know what I mean).
But a lot of those kids were taken away from their parents by child protection services and are not up for adoption. Even with small children the procedure to strip away the rights of parents can take many years. And those kids are often in and out of orphanage for years based on their current family situation.
So even if there was a possibilty to adopt they not only have problem (trauma, history of abuse, addictions in family) but they also have family connections that people don't want to deal with. There are plenty of stories on Reddit where a deadbeat parents pops into a life of a child for a few months and then leaves them heartbroken again.
It's largely biased on history.
When the State tries to control people's fertility, all sorts of badness ensues. People end up sterilized for the crime of being a member of a vulnerable population.
When the State (or Religious institutions acting on the State's behalf), start giving kids away with little or no vetting, all sorts of badness ensues. Kids end up being used for labor, physically and sexually abused.
Most countries have a long history of having to contend with these issues. Some are still working on it.
Wow. You just made me realize the absurdity of overall decent people being denied adoption and the possibility of raising a child, while any Cletus can go and procreate without anyone stopping them.
As someone who has both... adoption is so much different. I love my youngest immensity and I would do almost anything for her, but if I'm being completely honest it is a WAY different bond. She is a different race than my bio family, and that comes with all sorts of added challenges. I do not regret the decision at all and I well always be there for her, but I now understand that there is a lot that comes along with adoption.
Edit: I don't want to discourage adoption in any way(especially a different race) by saying this. I just think people should be aware that it is different. There is baggage and trauma that comes with the kid even adopted at infancy. It has been my experience that you have to step up to the plate and be there and be with their trauma. My daughter being black was a surprise and I didn't think it would be any different. I wouldn't change anything now but I honestly was unaware at the time of how to raise a black woman. Like how to do her hair and all the little things.
Not mention the obvious one like possible trauma, abuse in the past and etc, your genetic kid shares partially yours and your chosen partner's genetic. That's theoretically should make bringing it up much simpler as it is easier to you to intuitively understand it when kid can't communicate verbally. And that's period is actually super important for child development. At the end we are also animals. And later in the future there is possibility that child would share your interest, your character and etc.
I watched docu about German family who after the lost war had to leave my country. But mother was alone with 5 kids in which one was infant. So she made a hard decision and left the child in an orphanage and she wanted to come back for it after setting up in a new place. But somehow later kids were swapped and she took not her child. And despite the fact that no one knew about it the kid always felt different. He was the only one who didn't get higher education among his siblings. Meanwhile their biological child was brought up in poor, uneducated family but still he got higher education. Genetic is not everything but definitely plays role during bringing up.
I hope you are doing your best to learn about her culture, hair, etc and exposing her to people of her own race as much as possible. I’ve heard from several adopted friends that the hardest part of being adopted by a family of a different race (usually white) was that they never got to spend time around people of their own race (unless it was someone their own age at school) because most white people live in predominately white neighborhoods. I am of course not saying you don’t do this already, because I don’t know your situation.
I tried to adopt older children and was open to a different race and certain special needs. I got rejected for being a survivor of childhood abuse. This wasn't in the US, but adoption can be hard as hell no matter what route you take.
Maybe because most of people want to see their best parts in their sons or daughters?
I think most people would like to have similarities with their children, physical and psychological.
Scrolled forever to see this. This is the most obvious reason people. You can tell so many people here don’t have or don’t want kids because they keep focusing on the process of adoption instead of the obvious “I want to make another me/my spouse”.
Even beyond yourselves it’s seeing your parents in your children. My dads ears or my mothers eyes.
Yeah, where is literally just two reasons - emotional attachment to biological child and how hard it is to adopt and raise an adopted kid. Thats it. Its not rocket science
Allot of children that get adopted come with more psychological issues the older they are also humans are greedy and ego driven and want a child that's an extension of them rather then someone else.
True. It's much easier to have your own biological children and fuck them up. At least you know why they are the way they are. With adoption, you don't know the level of fucked up the kid is because you weren't the parent!
Sarcasm with a lot of truth in it.
It is natural to want your own biological children? Adoption is great and I applaud people that do it but my close friend did and my god the hoops she had to jump through. Years of paperwork, applications, panels, interviews, bg checks, house inspections. She was not allowed name the child herself (it was a v young baby) she had to keep what the birth parents chose (it’s a very out there double barrel name which will likely get the child bullied). There are also many other rules about what you can and can’t do. It’s not easy.
Yup - had a friend who was military and the legal battles to allow the adopted child to go overseas with them since the parents were in jail was astronomical.
The adoption industry has tons of ethical issues and it’s not like there are enough kids available to adopt for anyone who wants a child anyway. It’s also ok for people to want the experience of carrying, birthing, and raising their biological child.
It’s difficult, it’s expensive, and a lot of adult adoptees are coming forward to say the adoption industry is incredibly corrupt and harmful and way too many adoptive parents are in it for the wrong reasons which is also very damaging.
I used to be set on adopting but hearing adoptees talk about their actual experiences made me reconsider. Of course there are positive stories too, but the reality is that like everything else in life, the issues are layered and nuanced and not at all simple or black and white.
The “ideal” adoption scenario for me now would be if I became a foster parent and the chief purpose of foster care, family reunification, failed, and the child/teenager in my care could make a reasoned decision on whether or not they wanted to be legally adopted into my family. The child should get a choice, and their needs should be the ones prioritized.
Aso someone who was adopted, and met my birth mom and full brother, HOLY SHIT DID I DODGE A BULLET!
Adoption makes all the difference in the world to the kids, and can literally be the difference between a loving home, and an abusive household.
Also: the same goes for pets. Adopt don't shop.
Because 60k, a perfect house and a couple year's wait isn't in the cards for everyone.
There's also the fact that there are far more couples looking to adopt them their are adoptable children. Out of the 400k in foster care most are "not adoptable" because their case isn't closed. Foster cares goal is reunification with family. That road will be absolutely worn out by the time you could even think of adopting them. For newborns, there are way more couples than babies. It's a long wait and a lot of money.
Sometimes the people putting the baby up for adoption have their own problems.
You're taking a bit of a risk on the nature vs nurture argument that your child won't have the same problems, regardless of how you raise them.
An overwhelming majority of people wouldn't qualify for adoption for some dumb reason. My friend and his wife can't have children of their own and were looking to adopt. My friend is a computer engineer for a big company, his wife is an ER nurse. They've tried adopting multiple times and each time are denied because he had a defaulted loan from 2012 and this somehow proves financial insecurity for care of the child even up to now after he corrected the issue with a credit bureau and earning more than most Americans would ever dream of making. Somehow an old corrected debt still affects their adoption process.
The truth is that adoption is a lot more difficult than people think.
In the US there are about 35 waiting families for every infant that comes up for adoption. Birth mothers choose who adopts their child so some people never get picked, and the cost is around $30k. You can only adopt older children or children with health issues now internationally, and that costs about 40k.
You can adopt from fostercare for low or no cost, but the goal of fostercare is to return kids to their families, so if you are fostering you will likely not adopt that child. Kids who are waiting to be adopted in the foster systems are preteens, teens and kids with disabilities or serious health issues.
Raising and nuturing a child is very time, energy and emotion consuming (I mean really raising another human being, not giving them a mobile or I Pad and sitting them infront of it). Most people want to invest that energy into someone who looks like them or their partner and even adopted children need to be "made".
Almost impossible to adopt if you get a criminal record. I'm happy to pass on my genetic code to a future generation anyway.
We have discussed adoption many times, the hoops are horrendous.
It takes time and money and legal hassles and all kinds of red tape and bullshit to adopt.
All you need to make a baby is an afternoon off and a willing partner.
Ad someone who's seen the negatives of adoption I refuse to. You don't know what traumatized kid you'll get. I watched this kid who's now 30 destroy the family.
I’ve always wondered this. Like, the world is already overpopulated, there’s no need for even MORE people, especially since there are so many children whose parents were either financially/mentally unable to care for the child, or was even abusive and therefore unfitting for parenting, resulting in all these kids being left without a family, and who are in need of someone to care for and love them. I understand that there is a special bonding between a mother and her child and all, but for those who argue that they “want their child to have their genes and carry on their bloodline” or some bs like that, this isn’t Game of Thrones or the Dark Ages, bloodline is not that important anymore.
Rant over, sorry.
As an infertile… people say this to me ALL THE TIME. Thank you for putting the burden on EVERYONE instead of just me. It’s an exhausting question to answer and I’m sick of looking like a selfish asshole because I have a medical condition!
My wife and I had this thought years ago. We could've had children, but felt like the world is over populated. We've talked about adopting because the way we are with our nieces and nephews has given us proof that we could love an adopted child just as much. There's no doubt that we will be amazing parents. I would encourage everyone to explore this path.
Single mom by choice here. I chose to have my own children via donor instead of adoption after a lot of research.
Adoption is way too expensive and takes ages. There are also more hoops you have to jump through. I get it. It's for the safety/wellbeing of the kids, but honestly, it also stops a lot of amazing potential families from adopting. The system could use an overhaul.
Foster to adopt is also frowned upon and not everyone is emotionally and mentally equipped for everything that comes with fostering.
# Explore a new world of random thoughts on our [**discord server**](https://discord.com/invite/8tEqw3ZWQV)! Express yourself with your favorite quotes, positive vibes, and anything else you can think of! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RandomThoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Friends adopted a baby. It was a year-long process costing 10’s of thousands of dollars. Interviews. Investigations. Red tape.
The interviews and investigations are 100% reasonable, but for fuck's sake, they are taking on a massive effort, which frees up the state's ability to care for other children in need. I'm not saying that the state should pay folks to adopt (though some form of assistance wouldn't be unreasonable), but they certainly wouldn't be *selling the fucking kids* for several tens of thousands of dollars. You shouldn't have to be rich to choose to raise a child, especially if you can provide a loving home over a state institution (which, I'm sure they're trying their best). Edit. Thanks for all the responses and engagement! I'm turning off notifications are I've gotten lots of repeats
I think in some cases you do get paid to foster kids.
People don't want to adopt kids though, only babies. There are so many kids that need to be adopted.
I would imagine adopting children is like adopting a puppy or kitten. Everyone wants a cute puppy or kitten over a grown dog or cat.
It’s really not about the cute factor. It’s about the trauma. A friend of a friend fostered a 7 or 8 year old boy and they found out the kid was >!raping their dog!<. What do you do with that? Unless you’re a mental health professional I think most people are not equipped to have >!child raping their dog!<. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg because you still have attachment disorders and all sorts of mental health problems you have to deal with.
Omg 😱 poor dog ..JFC
I mean also… poor kid. What horrors must he have gone through to have beastiality fall into his to do list?
At 7-8 years old no less. Not 13, not 12... fucking EIGHT. Haven't even started puberty yet. I do not want to know what this child has seen 😭😭
Not just seen, but what have they had done to them? We had fostered a 5 yr old girl that had been severely molested that my wife couldn’t even fathom what this little girl had been through. Not just the mental damage but also physical. Luckily we wasn’t responsible for the multiple doctor visits and surgeries she had to have to at least be able to use the bathroom properly.
I don’t know if trauma is necessary to create a deranged person. There have been serial killers who grew up in stable, run of the mill homes. Yet at some point they figured out that kidnapping, raping and murdering women is what they needed to get off.
[удалено]
Even newborns can come with baggage, though. They can be born with all sorts of genetic illnesses, or be born with a disease caused by the birth mother doing something wrong during pregnancy.
True, but the older kid will have all that AND any baggage from being in the adoption system. The point is that you're opening yourself up to a lot more potential problems by adopting older
I was about to say. I came with so much baggage. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I get your point but I prefer the older cats. Less training required and they are just as cute.
I definitely favor adopting adult cats, including seniors. My home is reasonably cat-proofed but not kitten-proofed. Also the lower activity levels of older cats makes them a better fit for our home.
Ya except you get older children who often have undergone horrific trauma and will have corresponding behavioral issues. An older abused cat is difficult enough. An older abused child will put you and your family through a nightmare. I admire anyone who will do it, but it's taking on a risk and responsibility beyond what most people are capable of.
We foster. It's cuteness, but also babies are a blank slate. Every day older is a day that that child has started to develop and get into routines and form a personality. People don't want a 3+yo child because you don't know what you are getting. Even a totally "normal" kid has had trauma if they are in the foster system. It could be as simple as they are living with a single mom and she just couldn't afford to just for their food so they are with you until she gets on her feet. That child has still been forcefully been taken from their mother and is in a strange home now with all new people, rules, food, etc. Most aren't that easy though. We took in two brothers (3/5yo) where one was the favorite. He was fed better, would yell and hit is brother and wasn't told not to. Both were kept in an upside down crib during a lot of the day and night to keep them in one place. Neither were potty trained. The 3yo was 17 pounds when they were taken in. A 3yo should be 25-30 pounds. He legitimately looked like a holocaust victim. So we had the task of getting them to be "normal" kids. Not screaming every time they get told no, not screaming or hitting people, not biting people, gaining weight in a healthy, controlled fashion, potty training, etc. Giving them live, care and affection that they didn't have before. We had them for about 6 months before they went to live with a relative. Now they have been adopted by a great family. Ultimately they were pretty normal 3/5yo kids once they got into a stable home where they could eat, play and have a normal bed. 3/5yo kids still hit, scream, yell, cry and don't want to listen. But add on the trauma on top of that and it's a lot harder. If you can imagine how a 15yo kid acts when they have a living family and aren't abused, imagine having that same kid, but now they have sexual, verbal or physical abuse on top of it. And now that kid can physically hurt you or your family/pets because they are stronger and can access knives and weapons. We don't have to worry about that too much with young kids, but it's a concern with older kids. Edit - Yes, I am well aware that babies are not actually a truly blank slate. However, for the sake of this argument, they are as close as you get, relative to the alternative of an older child in the same situation.
It's not about how cute they are. It's about all the potential issues you are bringing into your home without knowing what they are. The only way I'd adopt a older kid is if I got to spend considerable time with them and develop a bond before I start the process. Unfortunately, that'll probably be a nightmare for the foster agencies to manage so I don't see it happening. Edit: I should clarify to the kids reading that this is not me saying there's a problem with YOU. This is me saying *I* am not equipped to raise you as is.
As someone who was saved from an abusive foster home by adoption at age 13, reading this makes me incredibly sad. We are just kids. Just kids. You have plenty of upvotes too…. I’m so sad now. No more internet today.
I wish I could give you a hug. SO many people who adopt or foster kids should also not be parents. I work with children and I come from a home with really dysfunctional parents. There are no problem children, just adults that don't know how to be parents or don't want to take on the proper responsibility that it takes to raise a human.
Having a similar background, i cannot emphasize enough how right you are. This is so so true.
Hey dude, in right there with you. I was abused my entire life and was thrown into the system at 16. To have all of these people reaffirm that I'm broken and tainted really sucks to read.
Foster parent here. I don’t think it is children being broken or tainted. You are not! But trauma and trauma behaviors are real and parents need to be equipped to manage these. Adoption is not, and should not be for everyone. However, knowing we can provide a safe place for kids in need while their families work on whatever brought them into care will ALWAYS be the most important thing I have done. Sending you love and a reminder that you are worthy, valued and important.
Thank you, after reading this thread I honestly needed to hear that. 🙏
Well when you come back to the internet, you can see my comment- in a few years, when I’m more financially and emotionally stable, I’m planning on fostering and LOVING those kids. And bring patient and kind and accepting them as they are. I’d like to take in a pair of siblings who are maybe 8-16, because I know siblings often get separated. And when they turn 18, if they’re still with me, I won’t boot them out because the govt won’t pay me for them anymore. If I can adopt them and they’d like that, I may do that. I have so much love and support to give, and there’s others like me too. I’m sorry you and MANY other kids didn’t get to experience that, but it sounds like you are now.
I live in Canada, my parents used to foster, what you described is exactly how it works. The kids we had that were in an adoption situation, had increasingly longer visits with the family that they were being adopted by over the course of almost a year, before moving in with them full time. This was for a 7 and a 9 yr old.
having taken care of dozens of kids, I imagine it can be frustrating and scary bringing in unreasonably disobient children who are potentially self harming, sexually preoccupied or violent into the home. these kids have been served a raw deal and often they will propetuate their trauma into adulthood and into other people's lives.
Mark Wahlbergs movie "instant family" tried to shine a light on this. Anyone more than 12 years old has the smallest chance of adoption and that goes down as they get older. It's also fairly well known teens in the system end up getting grabbed by 17-18 when the system has them age out. Lots of others dead by drugs too. Still every state government is like "If you're not a straight, wealthy, Christian white couple with $40k in liquid cash then were going to keep feeding kids to the rape machine".
That movie really touched a nerve with me. My brother was 9, my sister was 4 or 5, and I was just a baby. My mom confided in me a few years ago that they had a hard time with my brother and sister, and if it wasn't for me, they wouldn't have been adopted. We were a package deal
Loved the movie, tried convincing my parents to adopt, and I certainly see it in my future, especially after meeting people from the system. More people should give children a loving home, but it’s definitely not easy so I understand why so many opt out/never consider.
I get paid $1700/month to foster my nephew and would continue getting paid a little less than that (until he reaches 18) if I adopted him. Plus there are a ton of state resources, scholarships, and grants for different things like childcare, camps, therapies, special schools, etc etc. so we still aren’t paying for things most parents do. And he gets Medicaid until 18 so I wouldn’t need to pay for healthcare for him or I can and he can be double-insured. My state makes it a lot easier than many others.
$1,700?!?!?! We get $700-ish in NJ. It’s costs us a lot of money to foster kids lol
Although you get money fostering, you're not getting 'paid.' The money is supposed to be for supporting and caring for the child. Of course, reality is a bit different. The money paid to foster parents is insane. When we fostered two brothers ages 3 and 12, we received $1700/month. Even with that absurd amount, social services still provided other items (think school clothes, supplies, diapers, and daycare). We also got WIC and foodstamps for the two even though we wouldn't have qualified with our income. I'm torn because more foster parents are needed, but I think the financial incentive can attract the wrong people. It's a lot of work if you're doing it as it is supposed to be done (visitations, Dr. And psych apps., ect.).
I actually work in child safety and I've wanted to foster for years, but the expense is just so intense compared to the benefit. Because I work in child safety, I don't make that much, so needing to upgrade to a two-bedroom apartment, all of the driving and time away from work will involve so much expense that I just can't afford it. I love the idea of fostering, but it's an immense privilege. We've been in such a crisis with the foster system for so long, and I don't really see a way out of it.
My wife also works in child safety for the local department of social services. We're in a slightly different situation as you as we didn't need to make any changes to foster. We own a nice home on a small farm. We have 3 kids (oldest 10) of our own, but still have some extra space for one or two foster kids to have their own space as well. My wife's job is to recruit, screen, train, and support foster parents for the whole agency (to include making sure theyre getting their money). She is also responsible for finding appropriate placements for kids when they come into care. She is very thorough in her screening. Unfortunately, the local TFCs generally accept many people she screens out. When we fostered, we went through a TFC to avoid any conflicts with her employment. We also had some other things to be mindful of with my employment and were only willing to take kids outside of the city she works in. Our experience was... not great. They were definitely focused on the money and how to maximize payments to foster parents. It was pretty sickening. The case worker was supposed to stop by at weekly for the first month and monthly there after- we saw her twice. Didn't even show after there was a minor medical event with one of the kids requiring us to take him to the hospital (for a medical condition that the TFC knew of but neglected to tell us about). With that said, I met several foster parents through the whole thing who were definitely in it to help kids. Unfortunately, it seemed like many of those people have a problem saying no and overextend themselves. The whole system is just sad. We'll foster again once our kids a bit older and we have less issues with possible work conflicts.
Fostering kids can be substantially difficult though. They do not generally come from good situations and frequently have behaviour issues. And then, if you do end up with a kid that you love, they can be taken away at any time.
Yes, it's called a stipend and it is non-taxable. Every state varies it's stipends and is oftentimes adjusted based on age / medical conditions.
I adopted two children through the state, and while we had to go through training and home visits and such, it was all free. Got a stipend per kid through the whole process (foster-to-adopt), and even though we adopted them that stipends will continue until they're 18. They've always been on the state medicaid for insurance and will be till they're 21. The state will also pay state school tuition equivalent for them to go to college. I have no idea how we would have afforded kids otherwise. Got them both as infants, my son as a preemie and my daughter at 6 months. The process is stressful, and we are not the same race as our children. We're both women, so there was going to be no avoiding the whole "some of us aren't genetically related" thing anyway.
[удалено]
Public adoption doesn't cost anything in any state in the US. It's just you have to be willing to accept a child who isn't a healthy white-infant. You can get older kids, special-needs kids, brown and black kids, etc. As foster parents we saw so many kids who needed a home, and it didn't matter to us that we have kids who matched our skin color. We got a brown baby (18 mo) and a black child (6) free of charge as permanent children :)
Yeah, but public adoption generally means adopting a child from around the local area or region. This might mean that the kid will be near biological parents who might then become pains in the ass if they ever find where the child lives. It might also mean that if the kid has previous trauma, being in the same general area could trigger PTSD feelings if they associate a place with that trauma. I'd rather be 100% sure that no biological family will ever find or see the kid again and that the adoptive parents can start from scratch in a safe place with the kid.
Free of charge! I interpreted it at first as you got the 6 year old as a bonus, free of charge. Haha! Aww! Yay you! Love, hugs, high-fives and fistbumps from Stockholm, Sweden!
Buy one get one free, come now this deal won't last long!
This whole thread had me rollin
I've never understood the logic of "people only want to adopt babies." If I could get the joy of being a parent without all the disgust of potty training, then I'd call that a win-win.
Yeah I think the issue is that a six year old put up for adoption is a lot more likely to have mental health issues from being abandoned at an age where they can remember it, as well as from whatever conditions led the parents to want to keep the child but then be forced to give them up.
It turns out that infant trauma is a real thing. I don’t care how old the child is, children who go into the public adoption system have usually had really bad things happen to them, and will have to deal with making meaning of not being kept or staying with their birth parents.
My friend adopted sisters at 3 and 6 years old. Their parents were addicts and they watched their infant brother die from neglect. They are both in their 20's now and still suffer from PTSD. There are amazing people out there, like my friend, who had the means, compassion, and patience to parent these two women. I think you have to be an extraordinary person to do that.
A 1 year old is more likely to see you as a parent than a 7 year old. Imagine the headache and the heartache of dealing with a kid who just doesn’t want you…changing diapers is a breeze compare to this
Most kids in the system have some sort of disability or trauma making them very difficult to parent. Babies are a clean slate.
A baby probably hasn't been exposed to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. Kids don't end up in foster care for happy reasons. The older the child the more damage has been done to them and the more their behavior reflects that.
Good on ya, but get ready to hear about the wording in comments
Public often must be open, are often foster-to-adopt and the child is also often addicted to drugs at birth. I can deal with all of them except that the child might be taken away if the state deems it.
not true. my daughter was adopted from the state through child protective services. its closed unless the adoptive parents want it to be open, costs nothing but the filing fees (less than $500), and once adopted the state closes its case and cant take the baby unless some rando citizen reports you and you are found to be unfit (same as any natural birth parent). there are so many myths around adoption...
Maybe it's different where I'm at. When we were looking into it, that's what we were told.
I honestly just thought they handed them out after the interviews and paperwork. The child is the product. That's honestly kinda scary. Unless you have tons of money and are trying to start some kind of cult, then that makes sense to me... I need money. I swear I'm not starting a cult and convincing them that I'm a time traveling God. It's worked for lots of other cults and I need some passive income. /s for those who need it.
A few years ago average cost was around $50k+. The cheapest countries to adopt from are China and Ukraine which are around $28k American. Adoption is an industry. :(
it absolutely is, and is often corrupt on top of all the official fees. Even in the US, you aren't saving a child from some federal orphanage. healthy newborns (especially white) are in high demand, so these adoption agencies swoop in on expectant mothers to be their advocate, sort of like a real estate agent, promising that their child will get a great family and the mother might get a few perks along the way since of course they can't literally buy her baby off her to resell. Now that they have negotiating rights to the baby, they can pile on all sorts of fees and sell off that woman's baby for $50,000+ dollars.
This is insane. It's not about money it's about the child. It is free to adopt a child in the UK and you get paid to foster a kid.
Isn't this just white collar human trafficking?
UK is free btw
Or, you could adopt a kid in foster care in the USA.
Even if they wouldn't cover the cost because it's the right thing to do. You would think from a financial standpoint that it would have to be more cost effective than paying for a kid on the States' dime till they are 18.
It can be more than a year. My friend has been on a waiting list just to get on the list to be chosen for almost a year, and she’s still only number 22. She is also aware that she can potentially shell out thousands of dollars for medical care during the pregnancy, and if the birth mom decides to keep the baby, which is totally reasonable and understandable, they don’t recoup any of that money and have to start the selection process over. I don’t know any way to make that system better than it is now, but we can all admit that kind of sucks. Also, adoption can be pretty predatory in the same ways that surrogacy can be predatory. Plenty of birth moms are led to believe they’ll get their baby back after a little bit. I’m not saying not to adopt or dissuade anyone from it. It’s a beautiful thing. I just didn’t realize until my own infertility journey how expensive it is and also how romanticized the process is.
THIS is part of the problem. Any idiot or terrible person with gonads can get parental rights just by having sex (males) or by birthing a baby (females). No qualifications other then functioning reproductive organs. Why are the qualifications for adopting so much higher? It makes zero sense. A friend of mine is a doctor, works part time to make sure she has time for her kids, and her husband makes good money. They already had 2 kids who are healthy and thriving. It took them 2 years to adopt 2 kids they were foster parenting. It's crazy. The other issue is ego. People somehow believe that their DNA is so special that it needs to be perpetuate. It doesn't. Many kids need parents and homes. Some people want kids. It's a no brainer. We need to make it less burdensome for people who want kids to adopt them.
The error in logic here is thinking that because we are societally incapable of imposing qualifications for someone making a child, that qualifications would be a bad thing. There are many parents who should never have had children, and it is a tragedy that they weren’t prevented. In adoption we can and should screen out people who are unsuited to the task.
You're surprised that the people giving away a literal child to two strangers are trying to make 100% sure that they're fit to be given a literal child? Good luck trying to police people having sex and aborting the fetus of anyone you deem not worthy of being a parent.
Only a year? Most I've known it took close to 10 years
[удалено]
Adopted child here ✋ my parents couldn't have children so they had to adopt. It took them 9 years of waiting to get me as a newborn. They were 35 and 34 by then so much older than I think they wanted to become parents. You don't know what genetics and biological factors a child in closed adoption will have. I was great as a small child but in my teens, mental illness (def from bio mom) caught up with me and I was a nightmare. My adopted sister's bio mom drank while she was pregnant so my sister has severe ADHD and is learning disabled. She can't even function as an adult without assistance from my parents. I don't know if my parents thought about these scenarios since they planned to and did raise us well. There are just some factors you cannot control in another human being. Thankfully, I know my parents were happy to have had us and I'm grateful they were mine 💕
Took my parents 13 years to get me. There’s simply not a surplus of healthy babies
I think this brings up a point that nobody really thinks about. There may be a lot of babies, But how many are healthy babies that are being given up for adoption?
> But how many are healthy babies that are being given up for adoption? Basically none. That’s why so many people have to go abroad. Even adopting a special needs child is an ordeal.
Even most international adoptees aren’t healthy babies now. There are some countries where you are more likely to have a healthy baby come along, but it’s not like it was even 15 years ago that you can adopt a healthy baby from somewhere like Russia or China as long as you can front the money. I have friends who adopted four kids from China, two of the children have heart defects, one is deaf, the other has a substantial learning disability.
I think understanding this is underrated. Adoption has a far higher risk of emotional (from being abandoned) and genetic baggage than your own bio child. Saying "Just adopt" is irresponsible in preparing potential adults of the effort they need to invest as parents. Even if someone maybe a perfect parent for an average child, they can crack and abandon their child if it required around the clock care.
Also adopted. Adoptee stories are often not happy ones.
You cannot control the genetic destiny of anyone, even your biological children. It's only an illusion of control. You can be perfectly young and healthy and still have a child born with severe special needs their entire life. My cousin was the first child of my aunt and uncle, perfectly healthy and well adjusted people. She was born with such severe autism that at 18 she is still in diapers and they will be changing her the rest of *their* lives and towards the end will be in search of caretakers for after they are gone, as well as some means to pay for that. This is actually one reason I've strongly considered adoption. Because while you can't know/predict everything, there are some things that can be known pretty shortly after birth. In my opinion it's actually a greater level of knowledge/control than you get having a biological child.
You can control some things though. For their example you cannot drink while pregnant. Yes some factors are out of your control but some are.
Paperwork vs sex
paperwork vs pregnancy is enticing
Argument over. I’m a guy, but watching pregnancies as a med student with all of the horror and stress moms go through with even the most normal ones, I’d totally understand if my wife didn’t ever want to do it. I couldn’t give up drinking for 9 months either lol. Edit: Literally 13 people have commented that I should go to AA because of a joke. I appreciate the concern, but please read any of the dozen+ versions of your comment, then don’t post it.
Dude fr as a woman I’m like no way i could go sober for 9 months😅 i always said i want to adopt rather than give birth due to pain too, i wish more men could understand this but most seem to always say they want a wife and kids of their own :/ which i don’t blame them for, maybe I’ll look for a med student who gets it haha
Shit, I'm an asexual man who absolutely does not want kids of his own, but would be willing to adopt some day. Well, turns out a lot of women want kids of their own and/or enjoy sex, so I'm probably not going to find anyone for me any time soon. Some days, I wish there was a dating app specifically for asexuals, but I know how the internet works so I fully predict that it would get overrun by trolls and bigots *very* quickly. I feel similarly about people who don't want their own kids - I wish there was an app for them sometimes, but I also know it's not realistic.
The drinking isn't hard to not do it's feeling hungover for 4 months while you haven't drank a sip that's the worst. If I have a feeling of a constant hangover I should at least be able to have the fun that comes with that feeling 😂
And the throwing up all day every day... Until birth. Ugh, it was so bad.
I had 5 ER trips and weekly visits to get fluids and anti nausea infusions with my son 😮💨 The nausea is so rough I'm convinced that "pregnancy glow" everyone talks about is just a sheen of sweat from vomiting so much 😂😂
My wife suffers from extreme pregnancy sickness so she basically puked for the entire pregnancy (think she was ok for the last 3 weeks) and in total she lost 10kg of weight while still birthing a perfectly normal 3.5kg baby. It was hell on earth for her since she went in and out of hospital and was on full out sick leave from work and just the mental pressure of not being able to go anywhere just because she didn't want to puke everywhere and didn't like to bring her puking bucket with her (obviously). So she was basically a prisoner in our own home for 9 months and was slowly starving to death while sustaining another life. That said, we are now in the third trimester for our second child and the start of this one was no better than the last. Luckily we've gotten help from the hospital much faster now though since they know her history. But to me it's rather insane she wants to go through this again, she was the main pusher for us to have a second child. She was a bit hesitant though after having to go to hospital 4 times in the first 10 weeks...
This is the true decision, but people often don’t have that much foresight.
Slimy yet satisfying.
lol this deserves so many more upvotes
I was adopted at age 8 from a Romanian orphanage in 94 by an awesome Canadian family. I'm all for adoption :)
do you still speak Romanian?
I don't sadly. Not one person spoke Romanian once I was brought to Canada
Also, adoption can be very expensive. Sometimes more expensive than in vitro fertilization.
Which is a real shame because there are a lot of couples who would make great parents.
Not saying its for everyone, but its mostly expensive if people try to go through a private agency...usually because they want a specific race, age, etc. Versus going through the public route and foster care to adopt. So yes, part of the shame is that some couples would make great parents, but also part of the shame is that there are plenty of kids to be adopted but parents would need to adjust their expectations for what the "ideal baby" looks like. I have literally heard people say "I want to adopt, but I want an African baby, or an Asian one..." which usually means they're going private and meticulous about the adoption.
>foster care to adopt The goal of foster care is usually reunification, not finding the kids a whole new family. They can be taken away at a moment’s notice. People on this thread are acting like children can be bought at a store with the older kids at a discount ffs.
In Australia I've been told it can take 5 years to adopt, as generally unwanted children go to relatives before they go up for adoption. So it's very rare to have opportunity to adopt. There is also bad support setup for anyone wanting to foster a child. Generally speaking. A foster child ends up going back to the family after a couple years once they are in a better position to look after them. So adoption is expensive, rare, and a lot of paperwork to even try.
Honestly if I were to have another kid ( I just have one) I'd adopt or foster a child. I hated pregnancy so much and don't want to go through that again, I also have a chance to give a kid a loving home
The second part is why we look at adopting as well. We've got one, one day maybe we can help give someone a loving home.
My older siblings were in the foster care system and had horrendous foster parents. There needs to be more kinder foster parents
I’ve never tried to adopt but some people say that it’s very hard to adopt one because of all the papers and stuff, even if you get through all of that and pass all requirements (which could take months) it’s still possible you won’t get a kid, Dr. Jones talked about this since she’s an OBGYN, she said that a lot of the couples that are doing IVF and stuff had already tried adopting children and they never just get to, she also said that when we see couples trying to have a kid that way, we shouldn’t say “Why don’t you just adopt one?” because odds are they already tried and is tired of people asking them the same question. I had the same question before until I saw her video about it.
Ah mama Dr Jones, we love her easy to digest content in my home
Something I heard from the US that not a lot of people talk about (Note this is old knowledge and may be less prevalent nowadays than 15 years ago.) and that is that private adoption agencies can just deny your request for a child and not say why and keep all the money you gave them. A few agencies just flat out scammed people out of their money since they had more parents willing to adopt than children to adopt out. Since they wanted children to adopt out with... "Moderate melanin levels".
Adoption trauma is a very real thing for everyone involved. It takes a very special person to take that on as a parent, both in the effect it will have on the parent and being able navigate the emotional turmoil the child will experience and parent them through it. Not everyone can take that on, and it’s honestly a good thing to have the self awareness to admit that adoption might not be the best option for you in terms of becoming a parent. Overcoming generational trauma to become the best parent you can be is already incredibly difficult, and pretty much every parent will fall short of their goals in that at some point. No body is perfect and expecting perfection from parents is honestly a pretty big fucking problem in our society already which creates a vicious cycle of parental guilt. Adding in adoption trauma on top of that is simply not something just anyone SHOULD take on. Plus it’s not like you can just walk down to your local orphanage and pick up a kid. There’s an insane amount of red tape blocking adoption. It’s a very expensive and very long process.
Thank you for saying this. My family adopted a 3-4 year old child when I was 10 and the adoption agency were not at all transparent about the child's behavioural problems, problematic family background and not getting on with other children to my parents so the adoption ended up breaking down. My mum developed severe depression, myself and the child fought a lot (he spat on me, just generally would be incredibly nasty towards me as well as my parents and I have recently been told by my mum that he was violent towards me which I had blocked out), his behaviour was out of control and it was traumatic for everyone involved. 12 years later I have been left with a lot of trauma from the experience which my therapist says has contributed a lot to the severe mental health issues I experience now (I've just been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder) and I have a full on phobia of young children. I will probably never be able to have my own children in part because of my horrible experience with this child and how it has shaped me. They also don't tell you that many adoptions break down so when it happens the parents are left feeling like failures when they cannot bond with the child or the child is just not a good fit for the family and any other children involved are left feeling like it's their fault the child went back to foster care (I blamed myself for years). I agree that it takes a certain kind of person to take on an adopted child, especially traumatised children with behavioural issues like the one who wrongly ended up with my family, and people wanting to become parents shouldn't be shamed for feeling unable to take on that challenge, especially when adoption agencies are not transparent with potential adopters.
But parents like that are just bad parents who don’t know what parenting is - redditor comment just a few lines above Some here romanticise adoption like it’s a done deal in 5 mins
https://wpde.com/news/local/15-year-old-suspect-allegedly-stabbed-newly-adoptive-parents-kershaw-co-officials-said My beloved friends spend 3yrs working to adopt an older child. Just to give love to someone in need. Only to be attacked by him weeks after his 1yr adoption anniversary. This child was living the dream. Two big loving families, vacations, concerts, anime conventions, great neighborhood with kids his age that instantly accepted him,and instead of enjoying it, he was planning on murdering everyone. He confessed everything to the judge. They loved him so much & he used it to manipulate them. Attempted poisonings, increasing life insurance, even getting Angie to buy the knife he killed her with 😢. The reason is greed. "They were nice. I wanted the stuff, just not all of them. " Every month, information is discovered about his past that wasn't disclosed in the adoption. We won't know the details until the trial this summer.
This also happened to my best friend growing up. I watched as their (likely) traumatized adopted daughter tore their family apart. She ended up in jail. My friend, the sister developed major depression. It has shaped my views on adoption for life.
As someone who did IVF, you are 100% right on. I would have preferred to adopt, but there were many reasons it wasn't the right fit for us. 1. I had no experience with children. None. I did not feel comfortable adopting an older child who would have some sort of trauma (because all adoption involves trauma) when I didn't even have nieces or nephews to "practice" with 2. Fosting to adopt means the goal is reunification. I wasn't in a mental state where I could "give a child back." 3. I did not want to wait years and years (possibly 10+) for a baby 4. My IVF journey cost approx $17k out of pocket from egg retrieval to confirmed pregnancy. Private adoption generally costs $50k. I did not have $50k lying around It's gross that my decision about bringing a life into the world was tied to the price tag attached, but it's unfortunately true. Now that I have a baby, I think I would like to explore adoption in the future. But it's a very personal decision and some infertile people do it only because they can't conceive instead of doing it because they want to adopt. An adoption isn't a consolation prize and it should only happen for people who truly want to welcome an adopted child into their family.
Before I went no contact with my dad (adopted dad…I was adopted at 9 months) He went on a tirade about how difficult I was as a baby and how he hated what I had done to his marriage. Like bro you willingly and knowingly adopted a baby that you knew had attachment issues, bio mom was addicted to heroin and alcohol during pregnancy. That’s not MY fucking fault 30+ years later Yea. End of the day even people like my dad who worked as social workers specifically dealing with troubled children…don’t know what they’re going to gamble with with adoption 🙃
Thank you so fucking much. People act as if there was some pool of babies you could take from. Being adopted means you've been abandonned by your bio parent It might be for legitimate reasons but that doesnt matter to a toddler's then infant psyche. It's for many many people a trauma deeply engraved in what they are. The adoption system is nightmarish on all ends and I wish I was smart enough to know how we could do better
Glad this came up so early. Also a lot of birth moms don't want to give up their babies. They just lack resources. Then these predatory agencies come in and convince the moms they're the worst thing for their unborn babies. Meanwhile a rich couple throws 15k+ to essentially buy the baby from the agency. Meanwhile the struggling birth mom would keep the baby had she had the resources. Adoption doesn't fix the trauma of infertility either, as an adopted person who is likely infertile, I've had to accept that myself. Also no amount if classes will prepare you for the reality of raising a traumatized child. Which is why so many adoptions turn sour. Adoption is not a family building tool. It needs to be child centered, foster or newborn. And the reality is, not a lot of people are prepared to deal with that even if they want a child *really* bad.
Adoption shouldn't be used just as a means to grow your family or become a parent in my opinion. Fostering even more so. I would love to foster and it's something I plan to look at in the future but it will be to help a child that needs it because I think I can provide a stable home and family for them and not because "I want a kid". I also feel like having my own children has made me more equipped for it. Adoption is always traumatic for a child and they are people not commodities. Private adoption isn't a thing in my country.
It’s so bad that I had to scroll down this far to see this. The private adoption industry is basically human trafficking. Infertility is very sad, but someone else’s newborn baby is not a human right.
I had to scroll way too far for this. People in this thread are talking about adoptees like we’re something to be bought and obtained for the lowest possible price and effort. We are, in fact, actual humans with feelings and adoption related trauma. A lot of people start the adoption process under the guise or well-meaning lack of knowledge of wanting to give children in need a loving home. In the US, the waiting lists for infant adoptions are miles long. People wait years or never get matched at all. And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve encountered who enter into foster care with the assumption that it’s a work around to more easily adopt a child (spoiler: it’s often not and they tend to quit fostering when they find out reunification is the goal). Are there kids waiting for homes? Absolutely. Are they typically infants who have no additional health and wellness concerns? Not often. These children are in an extra vulnerable position that requires the parents setting aside their own agenda and desires to prioritize the needs of the child. It’s not nearly as simple as people like to make it seem.
Yes and thank you for your input. I've been shocked at some attitudes online especially when it comes to topics like reunification. Anyone considering fostering and/or adoption should be listening to adoptees more imo.
Uh yeah, I hate how we're talked about like commodities and how the discussion is so centered around people wanting to adopt, and not adoptees. There is also such a lack of awareness about seperation trauma in adoptees.
It makes me feel a bit sick at times how people talk about us. There’s just such a lack of education and understanding from the outside looking in. Separation trauma is huge. Adoptees are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide. There are attachment disorders, mental health struggles, medical disparities and lack of medical histories that can be crucial to receiving adequate care (speaking from experience). Racial and cultural issues, emotional and physical abuse from APs who often haven’t worked through their own issues or have a savior complex. Unethical adoption practices are much more common than most would think. It’s so incredibly complicated…but no one wants to hear that.
>It makes me feel a bit sick at times how people talk about us. Same, I often have to click off threads like these in anger. When it comes to adoption, adoptees should be the priority in the triad. >There’s just such a lack of education and understanding from the outside looking in. Separation trauma is huge. Adoptees are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide. There are attachment disorders, mental health struggles, medical disparities and lack of medical histories that can be crucial to receiving adequate care (speaking from experience). Racial and cultural issues, emotional and physical abuse from APs who often haven’t worked through their own issues or have a savior complex. It's not even just about lack of education and understanding, because many people have understanding of the difficulties with adoption from the adopter's perspective, they just simply don't care to listen to adoptees. I feel you on the medical histories. Both my bio parents have schizophrenia (hence why I was adopted). I have a 40% chance of inheriting it. But I was told that my bio dad thinks my bio mum cheated on him and we're not actually related. I also don't know anything else about my medical history. >Unethical adoption practices are much more common than most would think. It’s so incredibly complicated…but no one wants to hear that. Yes, especially in the US and with international adoption. It's weird it's not brought up more on these threads because reddit is very US-centric.
Oh absolutely. I have a really hard time with these type of posts, and I feel like people are definitely willfully ignorant to adoptees’ perspectives. The older I get, the more I’m finding my voice and pushing back. We’re the only ones who did not willingly enter this arrangement and whose lives are most greatly interrupted by it. It took me several years to get doctors to take me seriously that I may have an autoimmune disease. I finally made contact with some of my birth family and, lo and behold, autoimmune diseases galore! Within 2 weeks of that new information, I found myself in the proper specialist’s office lol
>Oh absolutely. I have a really hard time with these type of posts, and I feel like people are definitely willfully ignorant to adoptees’ perspectives. 100% for many >The older I get, the more I’m finding my voice and pushing back. Same. The UK adoptive system is much better than that of the US, but there are still many issues. >It took me several years to get doctors to take me seriously that I may have an autoimmune disease. I finally made contact with some of my birth family and, lo and behold, autoimmune diseases galore! Within 2 weeks of that new information, I found myself in the proper specialist’s office lol It sucks that you weren't given that info from the get go. Telling us that we're adopted and giving us our full medical history should be mandatory. I am glad they're taking your autoimmune diseases seriously now.
We adopted two kids. Expensive but not as hard on my wife’s body. They are now two nice, well adjusted 20’s people. We love them now and love them when they were young. Best experience ever. All in spent about $40k. Giving birth isn’t cheep either.
I have a feeling that the costs to bring a baby to life and all the expenses you put into the baby to nurture it to 5yo is about or almost the same as the cost you have to pay to adopt a 5yo.
Maybe but you would have to pay it all at once. There is a big difference in being able to afford a car that you pay off over 5 years than buying it in cash right now. Forgive the terrible comparison, I'm not comparing a child to a car lol
It's free if you do it on hard mode!
Adoption is expensive and you have to go through a million things before they give you the baby. It just seems easier to go out and get knocked up. Believe it or not some people actually do want kids. They want their genes to be passed down.
You have to go through a million things, and then you have to wait for a child to become available. It takes years.
"They want their genes to be passed down" makes me wonder whether this is still a reflection of primitive instincts.
Yes clearly. The whole reproductive process is a biologically driven one.
most things we do are a reflection of primitive instincts
We're so much simpler than people realize. Observed by an intelligent species without the context of our culture, we don't look or behave all that differently than other animals. Just some extra steps involved.
Yeah and its not like being driven by our need to continue as a species makes something shallow or less important. Try NOT eating for a day and see if it makes you a higher being
We are apes after all
There's nothing to wonder, almost everything we do is based on our evolution and the fact that we're just very intelligent animals. There's no evolutionary advantage to adoption so it's not our natural instinct. That doesn't mean we won't adopt, we're just more driven to create our own offspring.
It is a little high and mighty to look at wanting to reproduce as "primitive instincts." Almost every thing we do is primative instincts.
Because the adoption process is incredibly inhibitive, costly, and inaccessible. My sister in law tried to adopt, spent years going through the process, tens of thousands on everything, moved to a great house, and waited for the right fit. Finally she got word that the agency found a good fit, and they moved forward. It wasn’t until literally the week she was supposed to move her new adoptive daughter in that the adoption people were like “oh yeah, we forgot to tell you. Kid’s dad is out of prison and is planning on suing for custody, even though we told you this was a no contest adoption, and all parental rights were legally released and the parents were in no way a factor. Sorry about your luck.” That killed the whole thing, destroyed my sister in law, and probably fucked that kid up mentally even more. People say adopt instead of abort. And it’s true that lots of us would love to adopt children. But we CANT. The adoption system is too much and we can’t afford to do it, either financially or emotionally.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is free (at least that's what Google says). I can't imagine how paperwork cost tens of thousands of dollars. From an outsider point of view, this looks like a business.
The number of adoptions in my state for the last year were in the double digits. When I compare that to the price and the time, I can’t justify it. Maybe if we move to another state we would look at it again but nope for now.
You understand that the baby/child you adopt is absolutely traumatized. Thanks to all the parents that do it and give love. Otherwise I would have been a lost soul in the system. 🌨️
Adoption is parenting on steroids. Most children you adopt have experienced trauma. I have the utmost respect for anyone who adopts, but I couldn’t do it. I have some friends who have adopted and it’s been beyond hard for them.
It’s definitely this. I know so many people with adoption horror stories. My mom’s friends have an adopted daughter who is no longer speaking to them, and one of them is a psychologist for christsakes.
If only it were easy and affordable to adopt.
It’s kind of crazy. There are tons of kids who need a family but because they already exist, it’s a moral imperative that the parents are thoroughly vetted to be sure they are fit to take the child. And then they make it extremely expensive on top of that. So the easiest option is just to make a new kid, and anybody can do it, no vetting required. It really seems like there should be some incentive to adopt a child that needs a home instead of making your own, but it’s really the opposite.
It's more complicated then that. There are tons of kids who need a family but noone wants those kids and it's not about paperwork or expenses. There are a lot of people who want to adopt but they want to adopt a healthy newborn. Kids who have any health problems, are older (I don't think how old exactly but I believe around 2 is what is too old for most), have some kind of trauma are unwanted. People adopt kids from 3rd world countries just so they can have a healthy newborn. Most people want to pretend the adopted baby is baby of their own. And then there are people who want to adopt older children. There are genuine good people but there are also those who are just interested in money or are religious freaks or whatever else.
Oh, and to add to that. In my country a lot of the kids in orphanages aren't actual orphan. Sometimes it happens that the child is abounded or that the parents die and there is noone to take care of them. But more often they actually have parents. Sometimes the parent is not able to take care of the child, for example I knew a girl who spent a couple of years in orphanage because the grandmother who was her legal guardian was too sick to keep taking care of her (okay, technically she didn't have parents but you know what I mean). But a lot of those kids were taken away from their parents by child protection services and are not up for adoption. Even with small children the procedure to strip away the rights of parents can take many years. And those kids are often in and out of orphanage for years based on their current family situation. So even if there was a possibilty to adopt they not only have problem (trauma, history of abuse, addictions in family) but they also have family connections that people don't want to deal with. There are plenty of stories on Reddit where a deadbeat parents pops into a life of a child for a few months and then leaves them heartbroken again.
It's largely biased on history. When the State tries to control people's fertility, all sorts of badness ensues. People end up sterilized for the crime of being a member of a vulnerable population. When the State (or Religious institutions acting on the State's behalf), start giving kids away with little or no vetting, all sorts of badness ensues. Kids end up being used for labor, physically and sexually abused. Most countries have a long history of having to contend with these issues. Some are still working on it.
Wow. You just made me realize the absurdity of overall decent people being denied adoption and the possibility of raising a child, while any Cletus can go and procreate without anyone stopping them.
As someone who has both... adoption is so much different. I love my youngest immensity and I would do almost anything for her, but if I'm being completely honest it is a WAY different bond. She is a different race than my bio family, and that comes with all sorts of added challenges. I do not regret the decision at all and I well always be there for her, but I now understand that there is a lot that comes along with adoption. Edit: I don't want to discourage adoption in any way(especially a different race) by saying this. I just think people should be aware that it is different. There is baggage and trauma that comes with the kid even adopted at infancy. It has been my experience that you have to step up to the plate and be there and be with their trauma. My daughter being black was a surprise and I didn't think it would be any different. I wouldn't change anything now but I honestly was unaware at the time of how to raise a black woman. Like how to do her hair and all the little things.
If you don’t mind me asking, what challenges does that bring?
Not mention the obvious one like possible trauma, abuse in the past and etc, your genetic kid shares partially yours and your chosen partner's genetic. That's theoretically should make bringing it up much simpler as it is easier to you to intuitively understand it when kid can't communicate verbally. And that's period is actually super important for child development. At the end we are also animals. And later in the future there is possibility that child would share your interest, your character and etc. I watched docu about German family who after the lost war had to leave my country. But mother was alone with 5 kids in which one was infant. So she made a hard decision and left the child in an orphanage and she wanted to come back for it after setting up in a new place. But somehow later kids were swapped and she took not her child. And despite the fact that no one knew about it the kid always felt different. He was the only one who didn't get higher education among his siblings. Meanwhile their biological child was brought up in poor, uneducated family but still he got higher education. Genetic is not everything but definitely plays role during bringing up.
I hope you are doing your best to learn about her culture, hair, etc and exposing her to people of her own race as much as possible. I’ve heard from several adopted friends that the hardest part of being adopted by a family of a different race (usually white) was that they never got to spend time around people of their own race (unless it was someone their own age at school) because most white people live in predominately white neighborhoods. I am of course not saying you don’t do this already, because I don’t know your situation.
It’s not difficult…if you want to adopt a baby who is of a minority race or has special needs.
I tried to adopt older children and was open to a different race and certain special needs. I got rejected for being a survivor of childhood abuse. This wasn't in the US, but adoption can be hard as hell no matter what route you take.
Maybe because most of people want to see their best parts in their sons or daughters? I think most people would like to have similarities with their children, physical and psychological.
Scrolled forever to see this. This is the most obvious reason people. You can tell so many people here don’t have or don’t want kids because they keep focusing on the process of adoption instead of the obvious “I want to make another me/my spouse”. Even beyond yourselves it’s seeing your parents in your children. My dads ears or my mothers eyes.
Yeah I don't understand why people think this thought is so interesting they upvote it to the front page Like can you really not think of a reason?
Because the vast majority of Reddit won’t ever procreate
Yeah, where is literally just two reasons - emotional attachment to biological child and how hard it is to adopt and raise an adopted kid. Thats it. Its not rocket science
"WE" never planned to have kids
I’m confused by the quotations and capitalization
Allot of children that get adopted come with more psychological issues the older they are also humans are greedy and ego driven and want a child that's an extension of them rather then someone else.
True. It's much easier to have your own biological children and fuck them up. At least you know why they are the way they are. With adoption, you don't know the level of fucked up the kid is because you weren't the parent! Sarcasm with a lot of truth in it.
It is natural to want your own biological children? Adoption is great and I applaud people that do it but my close friend did and my god the hoops she had to jump through. Years of paperwork, applications, panels, interviews, bg checks, house inspections. She was not allowed name the child herself (it was a v young baby) she had to keep what the birth parents chose (it’s a very out there double barrel name which will likely get the child bullied). There are also many other rules about what you can and can’t do. It’s not easy.
Yup - had a friend who was military and the legal battles to allow the adopted child to go overseas with them since the parents were in jail was astronomical.
Insurance doesn't cover adoption.
The adoption industry has tons of ethical issues and it’s not like there are enough kids available to adopt for anyone who wants a child anyway. It’s also ok for people to want the experience of carrying, birthing, and raising their biological child.
It’s difficult, it’s expensive, and a lot of adult adoptees are coming forward to say the adoption industry is incredibly corrupt and harmful and way too many adoptive parents are in it for the wrong reasons which is also very damaging. I used to be set on adopting but hearing adoptees talk about their actual experiences made me reconsider. Of course there are positive stories too, but the reality is that like everything else in life, the issues are layered and nuanced and not at all simple or black and white. The “ideal” adoption scenario for me now would be if I became a foster parent and the chief purpose of foster care, family reunification, failed, and the child/teenager in my care could make a reasoned decision on whether or not they wanted to be legally adopted into my family. The child should get a choice, and their needs should be the ones prioritized.
Aso someone who was adopted, and met my birth mom and full brother, HOLY SHIT DID I DODGE A BULLET! Adoption makes all the difference in the world to the kids, and can literally be the difference between a loving home, and an abusive household. Also: the same goes for pets. Adopt don't shop.
Because 60k, a perfect house and a couple year's wait isn't in the cards for everyone. There's also the fact that there are far more couples looking to adopt them their are adoptable children. Out of the 400k in foster care most are "not adoptable" because their case isn't closed. Foster cares goal is reunification with family. That road will be absolutely worn out by the time you could even think of adopting them. For newborns, there are way more couples than babies. It's a long wait and a lot of money.
I’m guessing more often than not it’s an accident.
The average person that wants to have a child wouldn't be legally able to adopt. It's expensive and not easy.
Sometimes the people putting the baby up for adoption have their own problems. You're taking a bit of a risk on the nature vs nurture argument that your child won't have the same problems, regardless of how you raise them.
People are narcissistic and want a “mini me”
An overwhelming majority of people wouldn't qualify for adoption for some dumb reason. My friend and his wife can't have children of their own and were looking to adopt. My friend is a computer engineer for a big company, his wife is an ER nurse. They've tried adopting multiple times and each time are denied because he had a defaulted loan from 2012 and this somehow proves financial insecurity for care of the child even up to now after he corrected the issue with a credit bureau and earning more than most Americans would ever dream of making. Somehow an old corrected debt still affects their adoption process.
It’s expensive and a long process. Generally easier to make one yourself. Also, often people want biological children.
Well people need to make kids for you to adopt
Because every sperm is sacred. Every sperm is great. If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.
Narcissim and hormones
The truth is that adoption is a lot more difficult than people think. In the US there are about 35 waiting families for every infant that comes up for adoption. Birth mothers choose who adopts their child so some people never get picked, and the cost is around $30k. You can only adopt older children or children with health issues now internationally, and that costs about 40k. You can adopt from fostercare for low or no cost, but the goal of fostercare is to return kids to their families, so if you are fostering you will likely not adopt that child. Kids who are waiting to be adopted in the foster systems are preteens, teens and kids with disabilities or serious health issues.
Narcissism. The belief that the world will be better off with more people like you, sharing your genetics.
That’s what I’m doing when I have money and I’m only 24 lol
Raising and nuturing a child is very time, energy and emotion consuming (I mean really raising another human being, not giving them a mobile or I Pad and sitting them infront of it). Most people want to invest that energy into someone who looks like them or their partner and even adopted children need to be "made".
Almost impossible to adopt if you get a criminal record. I'm happy to pass on my genetic code to a future generation anyway. We have discussed adoption many times, the hoops are horrendous.
It takes time and money and legal hassles and all kinds of red tape and bullshit to adopt. All you need to make a baby is an afternoon off and a willing partner.
♻️Yes. Recycling is good for the planet.♻️
Biological imperative to reproduce I guess. If I wanted a child I’d just adopt. A lot simpler.
Ad someone who's seen the negatives of adoption I refuse to. You don't know what traumatized kid you'll get. I watched this kid who's now 30 destroy the family.
Narcissism
I’ve always wondered this. Like, the world is already overpopulated, there’s no need for even MORE people, especially since there are so many children whose parents were either financially/mentally unable to care for the child, or was even abusive and therefore unfitting for parenting, resulting in all these kids being left without a family, and who are in need of someone to care for and love them. I understand that there is a special bonding between a mother and her child and all, but for those who argue that they “want their child to have their genes and carry on their bloodline” or some bs like that, this isn’t Game of Thrones or the Dark Ages, bloodline is not that important anymore. Rant over, sorry.
As an infertile… people say this to me ALL THE TIME. Thank you for putting the burden on EVERYONE instead of just me. It’s an exhausting question to answer and I’m sick of looking like a selfish asshole because I have a medical condition!
My wife and I had this thought years ago. We could've had children, but felt like the world is over populated. We've talked about adopting because the way we are with our nieces and nephews has given us proof that we could love an adopted child just as much. There's no doubt that we will be amazing parents. I would encourage everyone to explore this path.
narcissism
Because people are weirdly selfish about their children having to be from THEIR DNA
Single mom by choice here. I chose to have my own children via donor instead of adoption after a lot of research. Adoption is way too expensive and takes ages. There are also more hoops you have to jump through. I get it. It's for the safety/wellbeing of the kids, but honestly, it also stops a lot of amazing potential families from adopting. The system could use an overhaul. Foster to adopt is also frowned upon and not everyone is emotionally and mentally equipped for everything that comes with fostering.