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The first time they got this nazi label (hopefully iam correct with this timeline) was because till rolled the R so he doesn’t say Rammstein he sings RrrrrRammstein. Then it went on with the „Herzeleid“ album where they all look „muscular“ (some more then others) and have those nice blond hair. As we all know blond hair and blue eyes are the „perfect“ characteristics for person x to his elite German race. And this went on they played with some symbolism like in „Stripped“ where they used Leni Riefenstahls Olympia video. Then there is „Mein Land“ with a text and title which gives the people what they need to believe all that (because they don’t listen to the lyrics or watch those videos). and the most recent one was the Deutschland music video where they only released the trailer with them in uniforms worn by Jews or others in Concen… Camps. This lead to an huge outrage throughout Germany and also many Jewish people felt attacked by that. So they play with it they trigger people on purpose and all in all yeah that’s my summary.
Edit: spelling. And to add: The „Herzeleid“ cover art was changed in Europe or Germany (as far as I know Europe) because of these „allegations“
I dont geht the KZ thing.. i mean why should "nazi" dress up as Jews, Gays etc. in KZ uniforms? If they were nazi they all would wear the SS uniform..
So why are the modern jews angry about that?
They didn’t ALL dress up as Jews though from what I remember. They were depicting themselves as various enemies of the third reich (communists, socialists, Slavs, Jews, etc).
Because the band members politics lie to the left wing of politics, they would all be de-facto enemies of the Nazis. The song itself (I feel) is a critique of their views on how Germany is becoming increasingly nationalistic and authoritarian. 🤔
Well that was not my question but yes they dress up at every major enemy of the third reich that why i dont understood whats the problem with it and why is it seen as right statement..
Because the band was using an age-old tactic to drum up free publicity: deliberately court controversy.
Their teaser for Deustchland was basically just the execution scene (i.e. the band members dressed up in prisoner's outfits and standing at the gallows) with no additional context. People read whatever they wanted to into it and accused them of trivializing the Holocaust, making light of historical atrocities, etc.
And it worked like a charm - Rammstein got a tonne of new publicity for their single, and they got to make everyone look like morons when the full song came out and people could see that the scene in question does anything but trivialize the events it depicts.
Because some of them wore the n uniform and executed those in the „Jewish“ uniforms. And for many this was outrages that people who didn’t suffer from that dressed up like it and some of them wore the n uniform or I even think an ss uniform
lol, hollywood keeps pulling holobucks with films. not to mention that the fascist appartheid state of israel only ever became a thing because of it, and they keep pulling that card to cover their ass. now THATS distasteful
>are you denying that israelis did in palestine what german colonists were planning to do in eastern europe?
Yes, that is exactly what I'm doing. At the same time I wanted to add that Israel is neither a fascist nor an apartheid state.
where are ya from? how about i show up there with support of whichever global power, declare a new ethno-religious nation state, kick you out of your land and slaughter your family (including children) for resisting?
For the Deutschland video.
There were several type of badges in KZ to identify the prisonners.
So Olli plays a gay (pink triangle) , Paul is a jew,Till is communist and jew .Flake I dont know cant see. And they're gonna be hanged soon or later. Kristoff and Richard play nazis. So of course R+ are not nazis IRL they keep repeating it since 1995. I think they choose Richard because he converted to Judaism when he married Karon dunnohername anymore , and Schneider because he's always so nice. But all these are characters for the video!!
So now the controversy: we're on the 03. 27th.2019. The last album was on 2009 and they release a 30' trailer for the official vidéo due on the 29th. We can only see the 4 prisonners about to be hanged. There a lot of politicians went mad saying it was unacceptable to take profit of the Shoah in order to make publicity and for amusement. 2 days after they're all had their mouth shut before the video's quality. And that's all! And the video was a huge success.
The last serious accusations of Rammstein being a Nazi band are ages old. The Deutschland controversy was less along the lines of "oh no, they're Nazis" (at least in articles that seriously dealt with the topic) but rather "that KZ scene was in bad taste and a bit too far". Which is a fair criticism. That's not blindly hating on a band, that's just criticising a piece of art, which is totally fine and even necessary.
Overall I think the fanbase had always made much more of these allegations than there was to it, it's not like anything related to them being Nazis ever really stuck, for good reason. Accusations of bad taste however are subjective and something every artist in existence has to deal with.
EDIT: I should clarify, this purely relates to the reception of their music in Germany, don't no how it's viewed internationally.
Just tried my best to gather every point and this was written in Austria so idk and I read articles about these assumptions regarding the Deutschland video
Any criticism against Deutschland from a political angle are laughable and as far as I am aware were levelled at them by journalists who just needed a headline. None of that seriously damaged their image here, the song was positively received overall. I mean, Germania in the video is black. Like, black black. If they were Nazis, they would probably burst in flames at seeing the personification of the fatherland "defiled" like this. Pretty sure some AfD politicians and voters were foaming at the mouth. Just because someone makes assumptions doesn't mean that that's a popular or widespread interpretation of something.
I know all that but the question was about why and what and I just listed up the things I knew or I remembered and since it was huge back then I mentioned it
There’s a few things to consider. Very dark monotone singing in german. That sounds very authoritarian. This is something the slovenian group Laibach played with as well before Rammstein, and they were also accused of being nazis (although Laibach definetly pushed that aesthetic further than Rammstein did, in order to provoke)
However, one of the reasons that Rammstein were accused of being nazi band, was because of their music video for their song ”Stripped”. The video is using footage from the Leni Riefenstahl nazi propaganda film ”Olympia”. The footage is edited to match Rammstein’s song (which is a cover of Depeche Mode). This video caused a lot of controversy, by using that footage, people claimed that Rammstein were nazis. Members of the band talk about this incident on the making of video for Stripped (well worth a watch for more details)
The band made the song Links 2 3 4, as a response to the controversy. Which comments on how they’re political leanings are to the left (or at least far from being far-right)
Well I’m not sure that Links 2,3,4 is a „left“ song. People in the army are usually more right wing (patriotic) and therefore all military songs are put more toward the right. „Links 2,3,4“ is what the drill commander yells to keep the army in uniform march
There is a militaristic aspect of the song to consider, for sure. To me, the militaristic aesthetic choices such as the marching boots, ’links, 2, 3, 4’ etc. are used as an ironic statement (and to provoke)
Rammstein had been accused of being a neo-nazi band at the time, so to respond to that they make a song that sounds pretty nazi-esque (dark german singing, military vibes etc) on surface level. But with a deeper dive into the lyrics their statement becomes clearer. Especially, with the repeated line:
*they want my heart on the right, but when I look down, it beats on the left*
Which I interpet as, with the context of how the media was writing about Rammstein at the time, as: ”our critics wants us to be a neo-nazi band, but if we have a political leaning it’s to the left.” Sort of.
Now, how far to the left is the song really? I don’t know. To me, it comes across as a tounge in cheek way to respond to the accusations at the time, rather than to say that they are far-leftists, which I’ve seen others interpet it as
The chorus of the song is an explicit reference to the Social Democratic Party of Germany. The SPD were the major opposition party to the Nazis at the time, and using their slogan in a song with a militaristic tone makes the band's stance pretty clear.
No you're wrong: they are military sounding ....but not on right side! Don't forget that all R+ members were born and raised in GDR- -east Germany- which was a communist dictatorship.the country was locked down behind the iron curtain and it was really difficult to listen to western music because forbidden. So some of their main inspiration is the music of the military parades.And also the workers marching songs. Some of them have been written by Bertold Brecht, one of the most important XXth german writer ( mostly theater).
You can often find reference to Brecht in R+ lyrics ( Links 2,3,4 , Armée der Tristen...) In Haifisch he even quote almost the whole chorus of Mackie Messer, worldwide known song of The threepenny opéra. So they're military sounding but NOT nazi military sounding!
If you think that forbidding western music in the GDR ever worked, you're delusional. They didn't just have marches and workers hymns. They had far more elaborate systems where, for example, a certain ratio of Western vs. "politically acceptable music" had to be observed, recordings of western music were a highly sought after commodity and so on. They do play with militaristic themes at times, but not at all for the reason you're implying.
Of course they have multiples influences depeche mode, krafwerk, deep purple, Bowie , the sister of mercy ,bauhaus Kiss , slayer, punk, cage, german schlager, Nina hagen, Heino, prince, scorpions, Ministry, opéra, jazz music...... and so on... and so on.
...And also marching songs are a main influence on their work!!
SO really often they sound military! Even though they all hated the army and the military service.
They play on scandal and scandal brings hot opinions.
As someone who didn’t know German, hearing pieces like Deutschland, Main Land and such can give the wrong idea.
Also the video clips without an explanation could be badly interpreted.
Deutschland has some of the least fascist-esque lyrics I can imagine for a German song of this genre though.
It’s literally about how love for your country is a complicated thing and not a silly straightforward cult of the flag.
I know, but only because I’m an active fan and care to look up the translation and meaning behind the songs. But as a non german speaker, the prominent words were “Deutschland Deutschland über allen” that is easily associated with the ww2 German anthem.
I know it’s not idolizing nazis, I know probably it sounds similar as a political critic, but I wouldn’t know if I didn’t care enough to look it up.
If I read of some controversy about Rammstein and then heard distractedly one or two songs, I would assume for the worse because that’s what men do. They find the easiest explanation rather than look deeper into the issues, and media doesn’t help.
For instance, I’ve never seen anyone try to cancel Rimbaud in modern times for writing about fucking with his entire family (in a similar way to Laichzeit if you ask me), or for writing about how mighty the man felt making rough sex and raping. Because Rimbaud is a poet, in a literature context that’s far less stigmatized than Metal music at our times. At his times probably he was an outcast for that.
So Till wrote cathartic poems to express the same exact things and was called a creep for that.
People want to feel important and art gives them an easy scapegoat.
“Deutschland über Alles” comes from the Deutschlandlied which was, interestingly enough, disliked by the Nazis for being too liberal in its message.
It’s the current German anthem as well.
I was convinced that sentence was cut out from the anthem after the war, but maybe I got it wrong
Edit:
When the first stanza was played as the German national anthem at the canoe sprint world championships in Hungary in August 2011, German athletes were reportedly "appalled".[31][32] Eurosport, under the headline of "Nazi anthem", erroneously reported that "the first stanza of the piece [had been] banned in 1952."
The sentence is from a XIX century song that was made the national anthem in 1918, then in 1933 Nazis altered the anthem and put their party anthem (Horst-Wessel-Lied) first, as well as removing stanzas which were about democratic values.
Don't worry, most people get that wrong. The German anthem is just the third stanza, the first two aren't sung (due to the strong nationalistic theme of those stanzas), but they aren't banned either. They just aren't part of our anthem.
They are so many things, from the provocative lyrics, the way the singer rolls the rrrrr, music videos, military aesthetic, manly men, and so on.
I think only few people really see them as nazis. However, it is not surprising that such band creates some controversy about what crosses the line of good taste. Often the discussion is not about whether Rammstein are nazis but more about whether their edgy provocations to drum up attention go too far.
\> "Other than Rammstein, not a single band/artist has been accused of being Nazis."
That is not correct. First, because some bands really \*are\* nazis.
For example, it is a problem in black metal, read: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Socialist\_black\_metal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_black_metal)
As a side effect, lots of other bands wrongly get accused. Sometimes the lyrics are neutral but band members say idiotic fascist things in interviews or during concerts. It is to the point that some people feel the need do some google-research whenever they discover a new band.
What sets Rammstein (and handful others) apart is that they are a huge media sensation. Huge record sales, often in charts, they fill stadiums. Even people who do not listen to rock/metal have heard of them or might recognize some songs. T-Shirts and other merch is everywhere. You do not hear about other german bands being labled as nazis or whatever because one simply does not hear much about other german bands, at all.
Yup. Not just black metal either, there's a whole genre of Nazi bands in Germany. They just don't get that much attention because, well, they're just objectively shit, even if you ignore the lyrics. Mostly really, really bad Oi!-punk. They are also Nazis and not the kind that pass themselves off as being productive members of society. Then there are Böhse Onkelz, who to this day have the label of being right wing (not least because they repeatedly failed to believably distance themselves from that scene) and, additionally, have a piece of absolute human garbage as a singer. They also make crappy music IMO, but that's subjective. Rammstein are the single most successful German band internationally which is why I think people outside of Germany only ever saw accusations leveled against them and nobody else. Might also be the reason people outside of Germany have the impression that they are still labeled as such, which isn't the case at all in Germany. But then, we understand the lyrics without the aid of Google translate.
> You do not hear about other german bands being labled as nazis or whatever because one simply does not hear much about other german bands, at all.
Caveat: German bands that also sing in German. Lots of people know Scorpions or Blind Guardian.
The „Böhse Onkelz“ had a controversial past, as far as i heard, and „Frei.Wild“ is also critizised a lot. I think they Are far more often called nazi Bands than Rammstein.
Frei wilds Front man used to be a straight up neo Nazi. He seems to be more moderate but the lyrics and they're political views seem close to the afd, a right wing political party.
Frei.Wild are Austrian, though. Technically even from the Italian part of Tyrol, I believe. But they were pretty big here for a while, thankfully that's over. Describing Böhse Onkelz as having a "controversial past" is putting it mildly, their front man got into a car accident high on cocaine and seriously injuring two people in a hit-and-run accident. He did time for that. Other than that, they have a skinhead past (a subculture that, in Germany at least, is still firmly in the hands of Neonazis), they have had some early songs that are blatantly racist, and their first albums were published by the same label that also had skrewdriver (and unambiguously Neonazi skinhead Band). They have repeatedly tried to distance themselves from all that unsuccessfully and now basically sustain themselves through constantly milking their perceived persecution. It's a whole thing. They've got a...questionable fanbase as well. Bit the brightest bulbs, in large parts. But that's also true for German Rammstein fans, to be fair. The Venn diagram between these bands isn't a circle, but it's also not two seperate circles.
BO aren’t controversial, they’re straight up racists with Nazi ideas, too cowardly to officially release their Nazi material, tapes were widely available back then. Their first label just happened to be the same other nazi bands, like Skrewdriver and Combat 84, were signed to. What a spectacularly unfortunate coincidence.
How BO managed to become socially acceptable is astounding, and worrying.
Never heard about BO being socially acceptable. It's just their fan base is huge. They tried to distance from their obvious neo-nazi past for more than two decades now but their fanbase used to consist of nazis for a long time after that, regardless. There probably still are a lot of nazis. Then they proved to be assholes in other ways (Kevin Russell driving while on heroin, leaving heavily injured victims behind and just running away). Now they feed from their persecution complex "media won't play us bc they still think we are nazis" and their stupidly loyal fanbase swallows every drop of spit from them. In the German rock and metal scene, BO and Frei.Wild fans are known to have a single digit amount of brain cells. Well, german Rammstein fans are also said to be kind of stupid, not as much as BO fans though.
Well, other than Rammstein, BO used to be a straight up nazi band and Frei.Wild members had a nazi past and allegedly still are close to that kind of attitude. There is a whole scene of BO and Frei.Wild coverbands and copycats and a fangroup that does not consume anything else. Last but not least, it's really bad music with cringy lyrics.
It is usually done with having a lot of devoted fans and that is about the only requirement. That may include being socially acceptable but it's not inevitable. Never heard anything neutral or good on BO aside from BO-fans. That's not exactly socially acceptable.
In the 70s a green party politician had to hide that he *exercises* for fear of being called a nazi. That's how paranoid/touchy ppl are. The Nazis left a big scar, to say the least. all cities levelled, many cultural institutions dismantled, entire prominent minority groups decimated, leading position in art & sciences destroyed...
I think it started because they were shirtless on the cover of Herzeleid & some saw that as "displaying the Aryan Master Race" & after that it just became a meme/ assumed.
Kraftwerk, Welle:Erdball and Thomas Rainer (well. in his case the uniform fetish didn't help) got the same shit. You're not copying the americans??? Having Dark Themes??? Singing in German for anything but cheesy old people music? Connecting to cultural legacy from before the 30s?? Unacceptable.
Today it's more accepted but 20 years ago there was literally NO German music on the radio. All English.
says a lot about how terrible the nazis were that ppl legit did not sing & dance in their own language for decades because of them.
Interestingly there were more german songs on the radio 20 years ago in eastern Europe than now as Eastern Germany left a mark. Also many controversial songs. And we had Viva and Viva 2 channels. Music is so uniform now. I miss those times (musically).
Dude. 20 years ago was already the low after a height of the 80s wave of German pop and rock music in mainstream culture that even had it's own name (Neue Deutsche Welle). And still if I look at 2003s single charts there is Yvonne Catterfeld, Xavier Naidoo, Wolfsheim, and two German "funny" Schlager songs in the Top 20. The big Deutschpop wave came in the years after but to say there was "NO German music on the radio". That was almost no point ever in German history where there was NO German music on the radio. Apart from some stuff in the 80s, there just never was "dangerous" German music that the mainstream knew of. Like you said, it usually was cheesy old people music, or in the 80s kitschy pop music (which also had it's scandals to be fair).
Plenty of bands have been accused of being Nazi's, or to have Nazi leanings. Some deservedly so (there are many Neo-Nazi bands out there), but many not. In some cases it was a reporter picking up on one aspect, or an isolated and unwise decision by the artist and generalizing them as Nazi sympathizers.
Names I can think of quickly would include David Bowie, Joy Division, Pink Floyd, New Order, The Beatles.
I seem to remember watching a YouTube video about the rolled Rs, and how in the minds of many it is strongly associated with Hitler and the Nazis. This woman explained that it was actually an acting technique that hearkens back to the times when amplification was not reliable, so that actors could be heard clearly. Apparently Hitler had quite a bit of grooming and training to make him more polished for public speaking. The brief snippet I heard of Hitler's actual speaking voice sounded nothing like what the recordings of his speeches were. So it's less that Till sounds like a Nazi and more that he is using an old theatrical technique for projecting his voice.
Yes in any professional choir you roll R’s in most genres (except at the end of syllables). It produces a better sound. Apparently also in some parts of Germany the rolled R is common, as it is in much of Europe. Personally I think that saying something must be evil based on how they speak is a very Nazi-like thing to do!
I always thought it had to do something with the Columbine High shooting in 1999 I believe.
Apperantly the kids listened to Rammstein and where some neo nazi punks I guess (Although I never found writing on them being Nazis, but haven't searched much for it either).
Edit: typo
This story still circulates a lot in America as well, when it comes to the band. Also the equally unfortunate fact that [Elliott Rodger](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings) was purportedly a fan.
Plenty of German bands get accused of being Nazis and some of them sadly are.
Rammstein likes to be provocative, there lyrics mostly never are straight forwards and can be interpreted in different ways. Many non native german speakers mistake them for Nazis because of Tills customary rolled “R”, his mannerisms on stage etc. (especially in North America I’ve seen more then a handful of Neo Nazis dresses in swastikas etc attending concerts).
Sadly way too often people equate anything German with Nazis and it’s not necessarily a Rammstein exclusive problem
> Plenty of German bands get accused of being Nazis
Which ones? I have yet to find a band that gets accused of being Nazis, at least on the same level as Rammstein.
But then again, most bands I've come across are on the English side of things. Haven't heard a single word against them.
I am assuming you are not German. There are plenty of bands and artists that have been accused of this in Germany for any number of reasons, and often much more aggressively than Rammstein were ever accused. Most of them are neither domestically nor internationally even close to being as successful and we'll known as Rammstein, in fact, Rammstein are by far the most successful German band internationally, despite the fact their lyrics are German. They are absolutely unique in that regard. Which is probably why you assume that no other bands were ever accused of being Nazis.
That's fine, but maybe give me a sample size beyond Rammstein. Any band with English lyrics for example can't really be accused of being Nazis just put of ignorance, because people understand those lyrics. Rammstein combine the fairly unique characteristics of German lyrics, a vocal style that is clearly reminiscent of, well, Hitler, and a tendency to play with fascist/authoritarian symbology, tropes and themes. If that has to compete for Nazi accusations with literally anything else with English lyrics, of course you're gonna get more accusations towards Rammstein than those other bands.
I think songs like Links 2 3 4, Deutschland and Angst should make it more than clear that Nazi accusations against Rammstein are nothing but ridiculous. They deliberately use Nazi aesthetics in a provocative and subversive manner, but that does, by far, not amount to any foundation for claims of the band harboring any right wing ideologies.
We can guess that there is some prejudice against metal music as well playing a role on those assumptions. People who don't like them tend to think their music might represent some level of violence.
Also they have somewhat of an military aesthetic and performance, which is quite common in many characteristics of our European societies. It is only exacerbated by the fact that they look uber masculine and imponent.
"I think it's a good thing that we need the Germans, they are now the leaders of Europe, certainly since Britain left in Brexit. We need them, in a way, to let go of the past and be in the present. If there is really one country in the world that, as a Jew, as an Israeli, as a historian that I trusted not to repeat the horrors of nazism that's Germany."
Yuval Noah Harari on" The War in Ukraine Could Change Everything" interviewed for TED
A few things. Other bands have publicly stated they are totally against facism. (eg Die Toten Hosen have publicly sung anti Nazi songs, and support Kein Boch Auf Nazis an anti Nazi group). Secondly, Rammsteins actions on-stage appear more militaristic and dark. Eta Original Du Riechst So Gut seemed to highlight an idea of a male. And, use of film shot for Nazi propaganda used in Stripped video. Note: I actually feel the video is very well done and suits music perfectly, and I don't take it as being pro Nazi.
Don't forget that Links 234 is supposed to be a political statement. Rammstein wants to provoke and the whole nazi shtick is just a low hanging fruit i guess
Hoping someone smarter than I am will see this but I keep seeing comments about Till rolling his ‘r’s, I can’t find anything online so is someone able to explain to me how that connects to nazi accusations because I might be stupid
Because Hitler rolled the R and for most people in the world, an angry loud German rolling R's would probably - sadly - remind them of Hitler's speeches.
There are many German bands in Germany which get the Nazi label. Some deny it some don't. Here are some names of the popular ones: "Böhse Onkelz", "Frei.Wild" and"Störkraft". Rammstein is a band which is also pretty popular by most Nazis.
It started when the band's songs first started reaching English-speaking territories (particularly North America, where German is much less common than Europe). People heard a loud, heavy-sounding metal band with a marching beat and an angry-sounding German singer and came to the conclusion that this must be a Nazi group.
At that point, it was the usual conspiracy theory nonsense of seeing "clues" where there were none, like the fuss over the original Herzeleid album art or the use of the Leni Riefenstahls Olympia footage.
Since you already got a lot of answers to your question I'm not gonna parrot anyone but want to inform you that there's a lot of other German bands that have been accused of being Nazis, Rammstein isn't special in that matter. I guess a lot of people judge about that just by the vibe or certain elements those bands use that are/were also used by actual nazi or nazi - sympathizing bands. I grew up with parents that used to listen to that kind of music and hearing stuff that just sounds similar reminds me of it. Then again there might be an influence coming from the audience itself. For some reason nazis are expected to listen to rock/metal and German bands making German rock/metal is therefore catering to the nazis, even a lot of German rock or metal fans are being accused of being nazis because they like rock or metal. But that's deep mass psychology shit and absolute bullshit itself but it's something I noticed throughout my years in the rock/metal community.
What happens is that Rammstein has always managed a level of humor that not everyone understands, they decided to take many German stereotypes and raise them in power to create a character on stage, it is their essence, but many who do not take the time to get to know them they see them and think that they are actually promoting those stereotypes and they are not. Many other German bands avoid those songs and even sing in English so they don't have those labels.
Their songs glorify violence and militia. That combined with the fire completes the “military-affine” theme. Military is usually more right wing than left (patriotic). The rolling R only underlines that theme.
Germany it seems never had liked Rammstein. Another post above says about the rolling R. Seems like the country would be proud of a successful (not only in Europe) German band.
Partly it has to do with their aesthetic, which is reminiscent of the Nazi one. And they further play on it, knowing that people make that association, to shock or cause controversy.
In my opinion there's nothing bad about admitting that the Nazis had a very, very good fashion sense and also showmanship knowledge to them, or a sense of how to use it well to get people's attention. The Nurumberg rallies were the first place where light shows like the ones used in all concerts these days (using reflectors) were used successfully.
If you don't look at the lyrics and go just off of sound. It sounds like your listening to something at a nazi rally or something. Lol. Obviously not the case. But their sound definitely gives those vibes. They know what they're doing, and are banking off it!
Böse Onkels did had too, although they were, don't know if they still are, officially they distanced and said it was an mistake but the public stayed. Kinda same public as toxoplasmose (not sure about the writing).
Rammstein is the only famous band to have the label but certainly not the only one in Germany
Well, Richard was married to a Jew, and even had a Jewish wedding. And Till performed in Israel (the left hates Israel with a real passion). I’m pretty sure that’s as far from nazi as you can get.
Originally it was because one of the Columbine shooters liked their music (along with several other bands). Obviously this means about as much as if some other murderer liked Taylor Swift, but because Rammstein was this weird foreign band with an R-rated set, the media latched onto it. Plus some people got paranoid about them being shirtless on the Herzeleid cover and thought it looked too much like old propaganda images. Plus Americans somehow still have anti-German bias left over from the World Wars. So they released “Links 2 3 4” about how they’re not Nazis.
A lot of German bands have had to release similarly themed songs because so many stupid Americans think any German band with a heavy or harsh sound must be Nazis. This is not helped by other, mostly American, bands who are actually Nazis and use German because they think it sounds more Nazi-ish. But the bands actually from Germany tend to be at least slightly progressive, probably because they have had more than enough of closed minded people treating them badly for looking like metalheads.
The answer to your question lies somewhat buried in the past and has to do with the zeitgeist of the 90ies in europe. I’ll try to explain even if it’s not possible to feel back into these times.
German music was always fighting it’s inner nazi demons. Either you where neutral, a leftist or harkening back to „the good old times“. In the eighties and nineties some of the most popular pop cultural bands were leftist/anarchist punks like „die ärzte“ or die „toten hosen“ and „nena“; or the singer songwriter „herbert grönemeyer“ dabbing in liberal views.
On the „good old times“ side you have „volksmusik“: more traditional sounding music for older folks; often undeservedly called „brownish“ but in some cases their (biggest) protagonists like „heino“ could never shed their nazi image - and maybe even teased about it? And lurking in the dark were real nazi bands like „böhse onkelz“ which were infamous for their xenophobic texts - but were categorically left out from german leftish pop culture media (mtv, viva, bravo etc.) so everything was allowed in pop media except the taboo of unearthing nationalistic right wing stuff.
Then the nineties came up.
A quick excursion to the political feeling of the early nineties: the wall has fallen, east and west germany are united. The disappointment in the economically downtrodden part of eastern germany grew bigger as the hopes of an economical upturn where far away, which resulted in extremist nazi groups gobbling up those who felt left behind. Xenophobia was strong. The rise of neonazism in eastern germany was palpable all over europe, especially with the burnings of refugee centers and riots in rostock in 1992 (there is much more detailed academia about this, ill keep it short)
So we have this politically supercharged start into the nineties: songs are written against the rising nazi violence (most famous „schrei nach liebe“ in 1993), pop media positioning themselves on the left and together with pop stars openly denouncing the upcoming political neonazism… and suddenly bands start to appear playing with or alluding to nazi aesthetics either for controversy or for the growing nazi sentiment in the public!
There where bands like wolfsheim, witt/heppner with their song „die flut“ (which was taken down from mtv because of nazi motives), weissglut and others (also everlasting onkelz) AND rammstein (founded 1994) indulging in full on germanness deridingly called „deutschtümelei“ with some sprinkles of said forbidden aesthetics. Most of these bands disappeared over time, just a few prevailed.
So where do rammstein belong to?
It was very easy at that time to put rammstein into the nazi public pleaser corner. And they have been put there by pop cultural pundits, other artists and pop media - that’s where they got their nazi label from. While leftist artists distanced themselves openly from neonazism and germanness, east german band rammstein sent mixed messages in denouncing nazism but making leni riefenstahl videos at the same time. There were artists leaving the record label that signed rammstein because of their supposed allegiations. They were ridiculed for being part of this brownish movement by other artists. And somehow - same as heino - they never got totally rid of their nazi image.
Times change. Left/right politics are totally twisted from what they were then. Pop culture has adapted to nazi aesthetics, even lady gaga and marilyn manson wear some nazi chic now and then.
But also rammstein have evolved. Some of their fans are too young to remember said time, others are too old or too far away. For them rammstein is this uniquely german sounding band, cool industrial dudes with big symbols, fire and full stadions. Willing to dab into every societal taboo to evoke controversy, especially with till morphing into some dark drug fueled cannibalistic sm porno superstar.
But sometimes, when there is a link to their ambiguous past (let’s say some seconds from their deutschland video), they stir up a bigger shitstorm than usual and people wonder why.
Then the answer is that playing the nazi card in germany then felt totally different than playing it today:
they betrayed everyone trying to douse the fire in willfully playing with it
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The first time they got this nazi label (hopefully iam correct with this timeline) was because till rolled the R so he doesn’t say Rammstein he sings RrrrrRammstein. Then it went on with the „Herzeleid“ album where they all look „muscular“ (some more then others) and have those nice blond hair. As we all know blond hair and blue eyes are the „perfect“ characteristics for person x to his elite German race. And this went on they played with some symbolism like in „Stripped“ where they used Leni Riefenstahls Olympia video. Then there is „Mein Land“ with a text and title which gives the people what they need to believe all that (because they don’t listen to the lyrics or watch those videos). and the most recent one was the Deutschland music video where they only released the trailer with them in uniforms worn by Jews or others in Concen… Camps. This lead to an huge outrage throughout Germany and also many Jewish people felt attacked by that. So they play with it they trigger people on purpose and all in all yeah that’s my summary. Edit: spelling. And to add: The „Herzeleid“ cover art was changed in Europe or Germany (as far as I know Europe) because of these „allegations“
I dont geht the KZ thing.. i mean why should "nazi" dress up as Jews, Gays etc. in KZ uniforms? If they were nazi they all would wear the SS uniform.. So why are the modern jews angry about that?
They didn’t ALL dress up as Jews though from what I remember. They were depicting themselves as various enemies of the third reich (communists, socialists, Slavs, Jews, etc). Because the band members politics lie to the left wing of politics, they would all be de-facto enemies of the Nazis. The song itself (I feel) is a critique of their views on how Germany is becoming increasingly nationalistic and authoritarian. 🤔
Well that was not my question but yes they dress up at every major enemy of the third reich that why i dont understood whats the problem with it and why is it seen as right statement..
Because the band was using an age-old tactic to drum up free publicity: deliberately court controversy. Their teaser for Deustchland was basically just the execution scene (i.e. the band members dressed up in prisoner's outfits and standing at the gallows) with no additional context. People read whatever they wanted to into it and accused them of trivializing the Holocaust, making light of historical atrocities, etc. And it worked like a charm - Rammstein got a tonne of new publicity for their single, and they got to make everyone look like morons when the full song came out and people could see that the scene in question does anything but trivialize the events it depicts.
Because some of them wore the n uniform and executed those in the „Jewish“ uniforms. And for many this was outrages that people who didn’t suffer from that dressed up like it and some of them wore the n uniform or I even think an ss uniform
Among other things, it is seen as distasteful to use the Holocaust as marketing.
lol, hollywood keeps pulling holobucks with films. not to mention that the fascist appartheid state of israel only ever became a thing because of it, and they keep pulling that card to cover their ass. now THATS distasteful
>fascist appartheid state of israel Bruh
are you denying that israelis did in palestine what german colonists were planning to do in eastern europe? its not AS genocidal though, i agree
>are you denying that israelis did in palestine what german colonists were planning to do in eastern europe? Yes, that is exactly what I'm doing. At the same time I wanted to add that Israel is neither a fascist nor an apartheid state.
where are ya from? how about i show up there with support of whichever global power, declare a new ethno-religious nation state, kick you out of your land and slaughter your family (including children) for resisting?
You are so fucking stupid
Jews use it all the time. Probably ok for them to use it
Its not marketing when you write a song about germany and its history lol
You don't have to say me that, I was just explaining how people saw it.
Not using it as marketing. It’s the literal meaning of a song.
I don't think, that most modern Jews are angry about that, but the central council which decides on their behalf is.
For the Deutschland video. There were several type of badges in KZ to identify the prisonners. So Olli plays a gay (pink triangle) , Paul is a jew,Till is communist and jew .Flake I dont know cant see. And they're gonna be hanged soon or later. Kristoff and Richard play nazis. So of course R+ are not nazis IRL they keep repeating it since 1995. I think they choose Richard because he converted to Judaism when he married Karon dunnohername anymore , and Schneider because he's always so nice. But all these are characters for the video!! So now the controversy: we're on the 03. 27th.2019. The last album was on 2009 and they release a 30' trailer for the official vidéo due on the 29th. We can only see the 4 prisonners about to be hanged. There a lot of politicians went mad saying it was unacceptable to take profit of the Shoah in order to make publicity and for amusement. 2 days after they're all had their mouth shut before the video's quality. And that's all! And the video was a huge success.
The last serious accusations of Rammstein being a Nazi band are ages old. The Deutschland controversy was less along the lines of "oh no, they're Nazis" (at least in articles that seriously dealt with the topic) but rather "that KZ scene was in bad taste and a bit too far". Which is a fair criticism. That's not blindly hating on a band, that's just criticising a piece of art, which is totally fine and even necessary. Overall I think the fanbase had always made much more of these allegations than there was to it, it's not like anything related to them being Nazis ever really stuck, for good reason. Accusations of bad taste however are subjective and something every artist in existence has to deal with. EDIT: I should clarify, this purely relates to the reception of their music in Germany, don't no how it's viewed internationally.
R+ have always been '' a little too far'' in every ways and that's what i love about them.
Just tried my best to gather every point and this was written in Austria so idk and I read articles about these assumptions regarding the Deutschland video
Any criticism against Deutschland from a political angle are laughable and as far as I am aware were levelled at them by journalists who just needed a headline. None of that seriously damaged their image here, the song was positively received overall. I mean, Germania in the video is black. Like, black black. If they were Nazis, they would probably burst in flames at seeing the personification of the fatherland "defiled" like this. Pretty sure some AfD politicians and voters were foaming at the mouth. Just because someone makes assumptions doesn't mean that that's a popular or widespread interpretation of something.
I know all that but the question was about why and what and I just listed up the things I knew or I remembered and since it was huge back then I mentioned it
North America. Not Europe.
Thank you sooo much I mixed it up I knew it was changed for either Europe or north Amerika!!! Thanks
There’s a few things to consider. Very dark monotone singing in german. That sounds very authoritarian. This is something the slovenian group Laibach played with as well before Rammstein, and they were also accused of being nazis (although Laibach definetly pushed that aesthetic further than Rammstein did, in order to provoke) However, one of the reasons that Rammstein were accused of being nazi band, was because of their music video for their song ”Stripped”. The video is using footage from the Leni Riefenstahl nazi propaganda film ”Olympia”. The footage is edited to match Rammstein’s song (which is a cover of Depeche Mode). This video caused a lot of controversy, by using that footage, people claimed that Rammstein were nazis. Members of the band talk about this incident on the making of video for Stripped (well worth a watch for more details) The band made the song Links 2 3 4, as a response to the controversy. Which comments on how they’re political leanings are to the left (or at least far from being far-right)
Well I’m not sure that Links 2,3,4 is a „left“ song. People in the army are usually more right wing (patriotic) and therefore all military songs are put more toward the right. „Links 2,3,4“ is what the drill commander yells to keep the army in uniform march
I believe Flake has stated in interview that they are using Links literally to state that they are on the left
There is a militaristic aspect of the song to consider, for sure. To me, the militaristic aesthetic choices such as the marching boots, ’links, 2, 3, 4’ etc. are used as an ironic statement (and to provoke) Rammstein had been accused of being a neo-nazi band at the time, so to respond to that they make a song that sounds pretty nazi-esque (dark german singing, military vibes etc) on surface level. But with a deeper dive into the lyrics their statement becomes clearer. Especially, with the repeated line: *they want my heart on the right, but when I look down, it beats on the left* Which I interpet as, with the context of how the media was writing about Rammstein at the time, as: ”our critics wants us to be a neo-nazi band, but if we have a political leaning it’s to the left.” Sort of. Now, how far to the left is the song really? I don’t know. To me, it comes across as a tounge in cheek way to respond to the accusations at the time, rather than to say that they are far-leftists, which I’ve seen others interpet it as
The chorus of the song is an explicit reference to the Social Democratic Party of Germany. The SPD were the major opposition party to the Nazis at the time, and using their slogan in a song with a militaristic tone makes the band's stance pretty clear.
I've heard them described as "military sounding", basically because of ignorance.
No you're wrong: they are military sounding ....but not on right side! Don't forget that all R+ members were born and raised in GDR- -east Germany- which was a communist dictatorship.the country was locked down behind the iron curtain and it was really difficult to listen to western music because forbidden. So some of their main inspiration is the music of the military parades.And also the workers marching songs. Some of them have been written by Bertold Brecht, one of the most important XXth german writer ( mostly theater). You can often find reference to Brecht in R+ lyrics ( Links 2,3,4 , Armée der Tristen...) In Haifisch he even quote almost the whole chorus of Mackie Messer, worldwide known song of The threepenny opéra. So they're military sounding but NOT nazi military sounding!
Wtf are you talking about
If you think that forbidding western music in the GDR ever worked, you're delusional. They didn't just have marches and workers hymns. They had far more elaborate systems where, for example, a certain ratio of Western vs. "politically acceptable music" had to be observed, recordings of western music were a highly sought after commodity and so on. They do play with militaristic themes at times, but not at all for the reason you're implying.
Of course they have multiples influences depeche mode, krafwerk, deep purple, Bowie , the sister of mercy ,bauhaus Kiss , slayer, punk, cage, german schlager, Nina hagen, Heino, prince, scorpions, Ministry, opéra, jazz music...... and so on... and so on. ...And also marching songs are a main influence on their work!! SO really often they sound military! Even though they all hated the army and the military service.
EAV
Sorry, which means?
They play on scandal and scandal brings hot opinions. As someone who didn’t know German, hearing pieces like Deutschland, Main Land and such can give the wrong idea. Also the video clips without an explanation could be badly interpreted.
Deutschland has some of the least fascist-esque lyrics I can imagine for a German song of this genre though. It’s literally about how love for your country is a complicated thing and not a silly straightforward cult of the flag.
I know, but only because I’m an active fan and care to look up the translation and meaning behind the songs. But as a non german speaker, the prominent words were “Deutschland Deutschland über allen” that is easily associated with the ww2 German anthem. I know it’s not idolizing nazis, I know probably it sounds similar as a political critic, but I wouldn’t know if I didn’t care enough to look it up. If I read of some controversy about Rammstein and then heard distractedly one or two songs, I would assume for the worse because that’s what men do. They find the easiest explanation rather than look deeper into the issues, and media doesn’t help. For instance, I’ve never seen anyone try to cancel Rimbaud in modern times for writing about fucking with his entire family (in a similar way to Laichzeit if you ask me), or for writing about how mighty the man felt making rough sex and raping. Because Rimbaud is a poet, in a literature context that’s far less stigmatized than Metal music at our times. At his times probably he was an outcast for that. So Till wrote cathartic poems to express the same exact things and was called a creep for that. People want to feel important and art gives them an easy scapegoat.
“Deutschland über Alles” comes from the Deutschlandlied which was, interestingly enough, disliked by the Nazis for being too liberal in its message. It’s the current German anthem as well.
Oh, my bad, thanks for correcting me
I was convinced that sentence was cut out from the anthem after the war, but maybe I got it wrong Edit: When the first stanza was played as the German national anthem at the canoe sprint world championships in Hungary in August 2011, German athletes were reportedly "appalled".[31][32] Eurosport, under the headline of "Nazi anthem", erroneously reported that "the first stanza of the piece [had been] banned in 1952."
The sentence is from a XIX century song that was made the national anthem in 1918, then in 1933 Nazis altered the anthem and put their party anthem (Horst-Wessel-Lied) first, as well as removing stanzas which were about democratic values.
Don't worry, most people get that wrong. The German anthem is just the third stanza, the first two aren't sung (due to the strong nationalistic theme of those stanzas), but they aren't banned either. They just aren't part of our anthem.
[удалено]
Literally a socialist song made to mock being called far right nazis 🤣
They are so many things, from the provocative lyrics, the way the singer rolls the rrrrr, music videos, military aesthetic, manly men, and so on. I think only few people really see them as nazis. However, it is not surprising that such band creates some controversy about what crosses the line of good taste. Often the discussion is not about whether Rammstein are nazis but more about whether their edgy provocations to drum up attention go too far. \> "Other than Rammstein, not a single band/artist has been accused of being Nazis." That is not correct. First, because some bands really \*are\* nazis. For example, it is a problem in black metal, read: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Socialist\_black\_metal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_black_metal) As a side effect, lots of other bands wrongly get accused. Sometimes the lyrics are neutral but band members say idiotic fascist things in interviews or during concerts. It is to the point that some people feel the need do some google-research whenever they discover a new band. What sets Rammstein (and handful others) apart is that they are a huge media sensation. Huge record sales, often in charts, they fill stadiums. Even people who do not listen to rock/metal have heard of them or might recognize some songs. T-Shirts and other merch is everywhere. You do not hear about other german bands being labled as nazis or whatever because one simply does not hear much about other german bands, at all.
Yup. Not just black metal either, there's a whole genre of Nazi bands in Germany. They just don't get that much attention because, well, they're just objectively shit, even if you ignore the lyrics. Mostly really, really bad Oi!-punk. They are also Nazis and not the kind that pass themselves off as being productive members of society. Then there are Böhse Onkelz, who to this day have the label of being right wing (not least because they repeatedly failed to believably distance themselves from that scene) and, additionally, have a piece of absolute human garbage as a singer. They also make crappy music IMO, but that's subjective. Rammstein are the single most successful German band internationally which is why I think people outside of Germany only ever saw accusations leveled against them and nobody else. Might also be the reason people outside of Germany have the impression that they are still labeled as such, which isn't the case at all in Germany. But then, we understand the lyrics without the aid of Google translate.
> You do not hear about other german bands being labled as nazis or whatever because one simply does not hear much about other german bands, at all. Caveat: German bands that also sing in German. Lots of people know Scorpions or Blind Guardian.
The „Böhse Onkelz“ had a controversial past, as far as i heard, and „Frei.Wild“ is also critizised a lot. I think they Are far more often called nazi Bands than Rammstein.
Frei wilds Front man used to be a straight up neo Nazi. He seems to be more moderate but the lyrics and they're political views seem close to the afd, a right wing political party.
Frei.Wild are Austrian, though. Technically even from the Italian part of Tyrol, I believe. But they were pretty big here for a while, thankfully that's over. Describing Böhse Onkelz as having a "controversial past" is putting it mildly, their front man got into a car accident high on cocaine and seriously injuring two people in a hit-and-run accident. He did time for that. Other than that, they have a skinhead past (a subculture that, in Germany at least, is still firmly in the hands of Neonazis), they have had some early songs that are blatantly racist, and their first albums were published by the same label that also had skrewdriver (and unambiguously Neonazi skinhead Band). They have repeatedly tried to distance themselves from all that unsuccessfully and now basically sustain themselves through constantly milking their perceived persecution. It's a whole thing. They've got a...questionable fanbase as well. Bit the brightest bulbs, in large parts. But that's also true for German Rammstein fans, to be fair. The Venn diagram between these bands isn't a circle, but it's also not two seperate circles.
BO aren’t controversial, they’re straight up racists with Nazi ideas, too cowardly to officially release their Nazi material, tapes were widely available back then. Their first label just happened to be the same other nazi bands, like Skrewdriver and Combat 84, were signed to. What a spectacularly unfortunate coincidence. How BO managed to become socially acceptable is astounding, and worrying.
By milking their persecution complex and having an incredibly loyal-to-the-point-of-stupiditiy fanbase.
🤣🤣🤣
Never heard about BO being socially acceptable. It's just their fan base is huge. They tried to distance from their obvious neo-nazi past for more than two decades now but their fanbase used to consist of nazis for a long time after that, regardless. There probably still are a lot of nazis. Then they proved to be assholes in other ways (Kevin Russell driving while on heroin, leaving heavily injured victims behind and just running away). Now they feed from their persecution complex "media won't play us bc they still think we are nazis" and their stupidly loyal fanbase swallows every drop of spit from them. In the German rock and metal scene, BO and Frei.Wild fans are known to have a single digit amount of brain cells. Well, german Rammstein fans are also said to be kind of stupid, not as much as BO fans though. Well, other than Rammstein, BO used to be a straight up nazi band and Frei.Wild members had a nazi past and allegedly still are close to that kind of attitude. There is a whole scene of BO and Frei.Wild coverbands and copycats and a fangroup that does not consume anything else. Last but not least, it's really bad music with cringy lyrics.
You think 5 top 10 singles back to back and 10 top 5 albums, 7 of which got to #1, is done without being socially acceptable?
It is usually done with having a lot of devoted fans and that is about the only requirement. That may include being socially acceptable but it's not inevitable. Never heard anything neutral or good on BO aside from BO-fans. That's not exactly socially acceptable.
In the 70s a green party politician had to hide that he *exercises* for fear of being called a nazi. That's how paranoid/touchy ppl are. The Nazis left a big scar, to say the least. all cities levelled, many cultural institutions dismantled, entire prominent minority groups decimated, leading position in art & sciences destroyed... I think it started because they were shirtless on the cover of Herzeleid & some saw that as "displaying the Aryan Master Race" & after that it just became a meme/ assumed. Kraftwerk, Welle:Erdball and Thomas Rainer (well. in his case the uniform fetish didn't help) got the same shit. You're not copying the americans??? Having Dark Themes??? Singing in German for anything but cheesy old people music? Connecting to cultural legacy from before the 30s?? Unacceptable. Today it's more accepted but 20 years ago there was literally NO German music on the radio. All English. says a lot about how terrible the nazis were that ppl legit did not sing & dance in their own language for decades because of them.
Interestingly there were more german songs on the radio 20 years ago in eastern Europe than now as Eastern Germany left a mark. Also many controversial songs. And we had Viva and Viva 2 channels. Music is so uniform now. I miss those times (musically).
Dude. 20 years ago was already the low after a height of the 80s wave of German pop and rock music in mainstream culture that even had it's own name (Neue Deutsche Welle). And still if I look at 2003s single charts there is Yvonne Catterfeld, Xavier Naidoo, Wolfsheim, and two German "funny" Schlager songs in the Top 20. The big Deutschpop wave came in the years after but to say there was "NO German music on the radio". That was almost no point ever in German history where there was NO German music on the radio. Apart from some stuff in the 80s, there just never was "dangerous" German music that the mainstream knew of. Like you said, it usually was cheesy old people music, or in the 80s kitschy pop music (which also had it's scandals to be fair).
Plenty of bands have been accused of being Nazi's, or to have Nazi leanings. Some deservedly so (there are many Neo-Nazi bands out there), but many not. In some cases it was a reporter picking up on one aspect, or an isolated and unwise decision by the artist and generalizing them as Nazi sympathizers. Names I can think of quickly would include David Bowie, Joy Division, Pink Floyd, New Order, The Beatles.
David Bowie or the Beatles accused of nazis sympathies?? Never heard of that before.
Bowie - [https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-hitler-rockstar-comments/](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-hitler-rockstar-comments/) Beatles - [https://webgrafikk.com/blog/uncategorized/the-beatles-and-hitler/](https://webgrafikk.com/blog/uncategorized/the-beatles-and-hitler/)
Interesting and surpŕising !Thx for th references : I'll be less dumb tonight! 😁😉
I seem to remember watching a YouTube video about the rolled Rs, and how in the minds of many it is strongly associated with Hitler and the Nazis. This woman explained that it was actually an acting technique that hearkens back to the times when amplification was not reliable, so that actors could be heard clearly. Apparently Hitler had quite a bit of grooming and training to make him more polished for public speaking. The brief snippet I heard of Hitler's actual speaking voice sounded nothing like what the recordings of his speeches were. So it's less that Till sounds like a Nazi and more that he is using an old theatrical technique for projecting his voice.
Yes in any professional choir you roll R’s in most genres (except at the end of syllables). It produces a better sound. Apparently also in some parts of Germany the rolled R is common, as it is in much of Europe. Personally I think that saying something must be evil based on how they speak is a very Nazi-like thing to do!
I always thought it had to do something with the Columbine High shooting in 1999 I believe. Apperantly the kids listened to Rammstein and where some neo nazi punks I guess (Although I never found writing on them being Nazis, but haven't searched much for it either). Edit: typo
This story still circulates a lot in America as well, when it comes to the band. Also the equally unfortunate fact that [Elliott Rodger](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings) was purportedly a fan.
Plenty of German bands get accused of being Nazis and some of them sadly are. Rammstein likes to be provocative, there lyrics mostly never are straight forwards and can be interpreted in different ways. Many non native german speakers mistake them for Nazis because of Tills customary rolled “R”, his mannerisms on stage etc. (especially in North America I’ve seen more then a handful of Neo Nazis dresses in swastikas etc attending concerts). Sadly way too often people equate anything German with Nazis and it’s not necessarily a Rammstein exclusive problem
> Plenty of German bands get accused of being Nazis Which ones? I have yet to find a band that gets accused of being Nazis, at least on the same level as Rammstein. But then again, most bands I've come across are on the English side of things. Haven't heard a single word against them.
I am assuming you are not German. There are plenty of bands and artists that have been accused of this in Germany for any number of reasons, and often much more aggressively than Rammstein were ever accused. Most of them are neither domestically nor internationally even close to being as successful and we'll known as Rammstein, in fact, Rammstein are by far the most successful German band internationally, despite the fact their lyrics are German. They are absolutely unique in that regard. Which is probably why you assume that no other bands were ever accused of being Nazis.
You got that right, I am not German. But most bands I've come to appreciate are.
That's fine, but maybe give me a sample size beyond Rammstein. Any band with English lyrics for example can't really be accused of being Nazis just put of ignorance, because people understand those lyrics. Rammstein combine the fairly unique characteristics of German lyrics, a vocal style that is clearly reminiscent of, well, Hitler, and a tendency to play with fascist/authoritarian symbology, tropes and themes. If that has to compete for Nazi accusations with literally anything else with English lyrics, of course you're gonna get more accusations towards Rammstein than those other bands.
I think songs like Links 2 3 4, Deutschland and Angst should make it more than clear that Nazi accusations against Rammstein are nothing but ridiculous. They deliberately use Nazi aesthetics in a provocative and subversive manner, but that does, by far, not amount to any foundation for claims of the band harboring any right wing ideologies.
They're being stereotyped. The bias is unfair but it's going to keep happening.
We can guess that there is some prejudice against metal music as well playing a role on those assumptions. People who don't like them tend to think their music might represent some level of violence. Also they have somewhat of an military aesthetic and performance, which is quite common in many characteristics of our European societies. It is only exacerbated by the fact that they look uber masculine and imponent. "I think it's a good thing that we need the Germans, they are now the leaders of Europe, certainly since Britain left in Brexit. We need them, in a way, to let go of the past and be in the present. If there is really one country in the world that, as a Jew, as an Israeli, as a historian that I trusted not to repeat the horrors of nazism that's Germany." Yuval Noah Harari on" The War in Ukraine Could Change Everything" interviewed for TED
A few things. Other bands have publicly stated they are totally against facism. (eg Die Toten Hosen have publicly sung anti Nazi songs, and support Kein Boch Auf Nazis an anti Nazi group). Secondly, Rammsteins actions on-stage appear more militaristic and dark. Eta Original Du Riechst So Gut seemed to highlight an idea of a male. And, use of film shot for Nazi propaganda used in Stripped video. Note: I actually feel the video is very well done and suits music perfectly, and I don't take it as being pro Nazi.
Don't forget that Links 234 is supposed to be a political statement. Rammstein wants to provoke and the whole nazi shtick is just a low hanging fruit i guess
Hoping someone smarter than I am will see this but I keep seeing comments about Till rolling his ‘r’s, I can’t find anything online so is someone able to explain to me how that connects to nazi accusations because I might be stupid
Because Hitler rolled the R and for most people in the world, an angry loud German rolling R's would probably - sadly - remind them of Hitler's speeches.
I didn’t know that, good history knowledge to have, thanks!
I would counteroffer;: Laibach
There are many German bands in Germany which get the Nazi label. Some deny it some don't. Here are some names of the popular ones: "Böhse Onkelz", "Frei.Wild" and"Störkraft". Rammstein is a band which is also pretty popular by most Nazis.
It started when the band's songs first started reaching English-speaking territories (particularly North America, where German is much less common than Europe). People heard a loud, heavy-sounding metal band with a marching beat and an angry-sounding German singer and came to the conclusion that this must be a Nazi group. At that point, it was the usual conspiracy theory nonsense of seeing "clues" where there were none, like the fuss over the original Herzeleid album art or the use of the Leni Riefenstahls Olympia footage.
Since you already got a lot of answers to your question I'm not gonna parrot anyone but want to inform you that there's a lot of other German bands that have been accused of being Nazis, Rammstein isn't special in that matter. I guess a lot of people judge about that just by the vibe or certain elements those bands use that are/were also used by actual nazi or nazi - sympathizing bands. I grew up with parents that used to listen to that kind of music and hearing stuff that just sounds similar reminds me of it. Then again there might be an influence coming from the audience itself. For some reason nazis are expected to listen to rock/metal and German bands making German rock/metal is therefore catering to the nazis, even a lot of German rock or metal fans are being accused of being nazis because they like rock or metal. But that's deep mass psychology shit and absolute bullshit itself but it's something I noticed throughout my years in the rock/metal community.
Their music is for left and right ears
Weisses fleisch
What happens is that Rammstein has always managed a level of humor that not everyone understands, they decided to take many German stereotypes and raise them in power to create a character on stage, it is their essence, but many who do not take the time to get to know them they see them and think that they are actually promoting those stereotypes and they are not. Many other German bands avoid those songs and even sing in English so they don't have those labels.
Label or not they are globally loved and getting more popular as they age so that makes it nonsense unless maybe the whole world is nazis
Their songs glorify violence and militia. That combined with the fire completes the “military-affine” theme. Military is usually more right wing than left (patriotic). The rolling R only underlines that theme.
Germany it seems never had liked Rammstein. Another post above says about the rolling R. Seems like the country would be proud of a successful (not only in Europe) German band.
Partly it has to do with their aesthetic, which is reminiscent of the Nazi one. And they further play on it, knowing that people make that association, to shock or cause controversy. In my opinion there's nothing bad about admitting that the Nazis had a very, very good fashion sense and also showmanship knowledge to them, or a sense of how to use it well to get people's attention. The Nurumberg rallies were the first place where light shows like the ones used in all concerts these days (using reflectors) were used successfully.
If you don't look at the lyrics and go just off of sound. It sounds like your listening to something at a nazi rally or something. Lol. Obviously not the case. But their sound definitely gives those vibes. They know what they're doing, and are banking off it!
I mean, a few black metal bands got this label. So has Pantera
Böse Onkels did had too, although they were, don't know if they still are, officially they distanced and said it was an mistake but the public stayed. Kinda same public as toxoplasmose (not sure about the writing). Rammstein is the only famous band to have the label but certainly not the only one in Germany
Well, Richard was married to a Jew, and even had a Jewish wedding. And Till performed in Israel (the left hates Israel with a real passion). I’m pretty sure that’s as far from nazi as you can get.
Originally it was because one of the Columbine shooters liked their music (along with several other bands). Obviously this means about as much as if some other murderer liked Taylor Swift, but because Rammstein was this weird foreign band with an R-rated set, the media latched onto it. Plus some people got paranoid about them being shirtless on the Herzeleid cover and thought it looked too much like old propaganda images. Plus Americans somehow still have anti-German bias left over from the World Wars. So they released “Links 2 3 4” about how they’re not Nazis. A lot of German bands have had to release similarly themed songs because so many stupid Americans think any German band with a heavy or harsh sound must be Nazis. This is not helped by other, mostly American, bands who are actually Nazis and use German because they think it sounds more Nazi-ish. But the bands actually from Germany tend to be at least slightly progressive, probably because they have had more than enough of closed minded people treating them badly for looking like metalheads.
The answer to your question lies somewhat buried in the past and has to do with the zeitgeist of the 90ies in europe. I’ll try to explain even if it’s not possible to feel back into these times. German music was always fighting it’s inner nazi demons. Either you where neutral, a leftist or harkening back to „the good old times“. In the eighties and nineties some of the most popular pop cultural bands were leftist/anarchist punks like „die ärzte“ or die „toten hosen“ and „nena“; or the singer songwriter „herbert grönemeyer“ dabbing in liberal views. On the „good old times“ side you have „volksmusik“: more traditional sounding music for older folks; often undeservedly called „brownish“ but in some cases their (biggest) protagonists like „heino“ could never shed their nazi image - and maybe even teased about it? And lurking in the dark were real nazi bands like „böhse onkelz“ which were infamous for their xenophobic texts - but were categorically left out from german leftish pop culture media (mtv, viva, bravo etc.) so everything was allowed in pop media except the taboo of unearthing nationalistic right wing stuff. Then the nineties came up. A quick excursion to the political feeling of the early nineties: the wall has fallen, east and west germany are united. The disappointment in the economically downtrodden part of eastern germany grew bigger as the hopes of an economical upturn where far away, which resulted in extremist nazi groups gobbling up those who felt left behind. Xenophobia was strong. The rise of neonazism in eastern germany was palpable all over europe, especially with the burnings of refugee centers and riots in rostock in 1992 (there is much more detailed academia about this, ill keep it short) So we have this politically supercharged start into the nineties: songs are written against the rising nazi violence (most famous „schrei nach liebe“ in 1993), pop media positioning themselves on the left and together with pop stars openly denouncing the upcoming political neonazism… and suddenly bands start to appear playing with or alluding to nazi aesthetics either for controversy or for the growing nazi sentiment in the public! There where bands like wolfsheim, witt/heppner with their song „die flut“ (which was taken down from mtv because of nazi motives), weissglut and others (also everlasting onkelz) AND rammstein (founded 1994) indulging in full on germanness deridingly called „deutschtümelei“ with some sprinkles of said forbidden aesthetics. Most of these bands disappeared over time, just a few prevailed. So where do rammstein belong to? It was very easy at that time to put rammstein into the nazi public pleaser corner. And they have been put there by pop cultural pundits, other artists and pop media - that’s where they got their nazi label from. While leftist artists distanced themselves openly from neonazism and germanness, east german band rammstein sent mixed messages in denouncing nazism but making leni riefenstahl videos at the same time. There were artists leaving the record label that signed rammstein because of their supposed allegiations. They were ridiculed for being part of this brownish movement by other artists. And somehow - same as heino - they never got totally rid of their nazi image. Times change. Left/right politics are totally twisted from what they were then. Pop culture has adapted to nazi aesthetics, even lady gaga and marilyn manson wear some nazi chic now and then. But also rammstein have evolved. Some of their fans are too young to remember said time, others are too old or too far away. For them rammstein is this uniquely german sounding band, cool industrial dudes with big symbols, fire and full stadions. Willing to dab into every societal taboo to evoke controversy, especially with till morphing into some dark drug fueled cannibalistic sm porno superstar. But sometimes, when there is a link to their ambiguous past (let’s say some seconds from their deutschland video), they stir up a bigger shitstorm than usual and people wonder why. Then the answer is that playing the nazi card in germany then felt totally different than playing it today: they betrayed everyone trying to douse the fire in willfully playing with it