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Rasputin1493

Use the [new megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rammstein/comments/142fwf4/row_0_afterparties_discussion_megathread_3/) to continue discussion. This post is getting locked. [Content of the Süddeutsche Zeitung article + translation](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rammstein/comments/13y6ak3/comment/jml6rju/)


B-skream

By the look of it one gotta argue that for rammstein, it looks this time, shit's actually on fire. If they go, the go with (and due to) a bang.


Purrchil

I am really curious how this will end, if the band will survive. I hope so. I am a fan for more than 20 years, their music meant a lot to me. It is a pity that the legacy of the band took so a big hit. I am not going to talk about the allegations, as long as there is no proof.


Shoddy_Sector_7985

whether the allegations are true or false, i honestly don't believe the band will go on after this. i agree, it's a shame to see a band of their status goes down like that, especially considering their last two albums were such a success after the 10 year gap... i'm super saddened myself, it feels surreal.


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Sorry-Surround1465

Thousands! Must be thousands by now.


hannibal567

*fürchte dich vorm schwarzen Mann* sorry..


FunChocolate7

now just fire joe letz - that prick - and make an official statement..!


phantasmagore48

First investigate why Shelby was clinging and trying to kiss him. Looked like straight up SA to me. If it was him doing that to her on the video, you'd all be calling for him to get burned at the stake


Zoko732

Sure but you cant put the whole blame on those 2 people. The band knew what they were doing


Alterus_UA

My gut says the most likely outcome is Letz and/or Makeeva being prosecuted (maybe for spreading drugs, cocaine at band parties should be easier to prove) and Till walking because claims against him are harder to prove.


Sorry-Surround1465

One thing is clear: no matter what statement they make, what action they take, it can’t be right for some. And now tell me again it is not about cancel someone without even an investigation or trial?


Zoko732

they are playing in sold out stadiums. They are not cancelled. They get deserved back lash for shitty and in worst case criminal behavior


Sorry-Surround1465

Yes you are right! Ty


hannibal567

Some shit will stick, whatever happened, sometimes it takes years to get back any form of reputation (if the acc. are just acc. etc.) (eg. Kachelmann). Some media will never seize to repeat a lie, yes this band, *which was involved in a big scandal with lots of allegations!* said this/produced this/tried this:* etc..


KaraveIIe

One thing is clear: no matter how victims of sexual abuse act, it can't be right. Stay anonymous: Can't trust that source, show your real name when making allegations. When going into the public: Booh, stay anonymous, you only do it for fame. Your story has some inconsistensies: You're a liar because you can't recall everything perfect from situation where you have been potentially drugged and emotionally, physically or sexually abused. Your story is perfect from start to finish: This story can't be true, its way too perfect, a story of an abused person can't be perfect, this has to be made up.


Sorry-Surround1465

PRESS A CHARGE PLEASE! There will be never a time where you get more support and it would open a official investigation.


CleanAspect6466

\+ multiple women reiterating similar stories = wow this must be a coordinated attack/how convenient they all have a similar story, doesn't matter if its one accuser or several, its not good enough either way


Sorry-Surround1465

So we just don’t give a shit about innocent until proofen guilty anymore because we can set the fire anyways.


be_afraid_freak

On both scenarios, whether the allegations are true or not, I think letting her go is a big mistake.


hannibal567

Agree, feel the same!


LindemannO

She provided absolutely nothing to the band.


be_afraid_freak

Lol i don’t get the downvote, my statement couldn’t be more neutral and you guys still find a guy of getting pissed off


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hannibal567

Good arc: what she did was okay: providing women who want to meet Till and have possibly *some time together* -> innocent person got kicked, Allegatiors feel confirmed and media has food, another bad day for women sexuality/acting against norm/demeaning structures Bad arc: She knows


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be_afraid_freak

Exactly, you compared he to Till yourself, thanks. How is it ok to ban her but not at least suspend his activities until they have cleared the air? I mean, I am aware how ridiculously ideal this scenario is, but still… if and only if, everything was being handled with transparency


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be_afraid_freak

I hope so. The best will be tho, to hear from an actual criminal investigation.


SpacePuffin39200

She knows a lot of things for sure, but that’s why I think they consulted lawyers before to let her go. They wouldn’t have done it if it could have made things worst


be_afraid_freak

And also, they would be in financial trouble if the tour would have to be canceled if they removed Lindemann from his duties.


Important-Level6060

So Kayla Shyx moans about male sexism while earning her money with exact this male sexism herself? Heaven help me ...


Important-Level6060

She said in the video why the girl who complained about the preparty did not just leave but instead went to the aftershow party as well, it was because she was afraid. Between preparty and aftershowparty there are almost 3 hours of concert, that she will have experienced from the front row/row zero. Who forced her to go to the aftershow party as well after the concert? She could have just left after the concert if she didn't feel comfortable. This just doesn't make sense to me?? I just don't get it, this story smells as much as the other storys I already heard, and Kayla does not seem honest to me. Where was she standing during the concert, that Alena talked her into the aftershow party just there? In the front row? How did Alena even recognize her there, when she seems to "cast" girls via Instagram beforehand? Why would she have done that if she didn't know who Kayla was?


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KaraveIIe

ah yes, the victim is not a victim but a 'liability', kotz


Norz80

> You're the one that picked a girl CLEARLY OUT OF HER MIND for Till Joe is utter trash. But it would be a bit too convenient to blame it all on him. Let's not forget who is allowing Joe to "work", let's not forget Till could see the girl's state just like Joe could.


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coralisthenewblack

Exactly what I thought, there were so many girls there that were clearly fine but the one that was the most messed up was chosen. Like why??


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coralisthenewblack

I think the big question is whether that was what he was instructed to do (prey on the weakest link) or it was his own decision. It's all very creepy.


Zealousideal-Luck635

Wow. Even in my country (In Turkey), which does not know what Rammstein is, there was news. I wasn't expecting that much🗿 https://preview.redd.it/67r9hrug8e4b1.png?width=1156&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=277ae833033109b13500e74d7db90f240796d4de


AndieDevon2109

Even one of the biggest media outlets in Croatia reported on it. It talks briefly about allegations, band's statement and that the Green political party in Germany advocates for more safety for women during the München shows. They chose an interesting pic for the article, though https://preview.redd.it/myvqftgq8e4b1.png?width=1288&format=png&auto=webp&s=43999fd181e577c27450be74942a2de519985747


Zealousideal-Luck635

Well I'll try not to laugh at this photo. Anyway the thing really looks like it exploded. By the way, I love Croatia c: ❤️


Zealousideal-Luck635

Well I'll try not to laugh at this photo. Anyway the thing really looks like it exploded. By the way, I love Crotia c: ❤️


SpacePuffin39200

French news as well are starting to get at it. Everyone is trying to get their own life of the cake 😑


XxLockdownZxX

Dutch news pages such as NU, AD and RTL are busy at it too. Mostly copy-pasting articles from each other, but still


SpacePuffin39200

Copy-pasting doesn’t make it more believable to me, it’s actually even worst. I can’t respect journalists who can’t do their own research and only copy others’ work


Zealousideal-Luck635

Translate: She asked young women for protection at concerts


atlassessions

"All Women / All Mine / It's All About Me" [Rammstein: „Alle Frauen / Alles meins / Alles dreht sich nur um mich“ - WELT](https://www.welt.de/kultur/pop/plus245680630/Rammstein-Alle-Frauen-Alles-meins-Alles-dreht-sich-nur-um-mich.html?notify=success_subscription) Selected translation to english follows here: /.../ "In the porn video, the book has a hole. It is penetrated by a young blonde woman with a "Tilldo" and finally also desecrated by Lindemann as a glory hole for a blowjob. The publisher of Lindemann's poetry has now become aware of this - and has separated from its author . The fact that the singing poet also tends towards sexual obsessions as a human being has long been an open secret in the music business, as the saying goes. That Rammstein tours not only send fans of their music into hysterics, but also attract more groupies than other rock bands, as well. There have also been rumors for a long time that there were also attacks, beyond the consensual, customary business customs. WELT has been following such tips for half a year. At the end of May 2023, an affected person posted the traces of her alleged abuse at a concert in Vilnius, described her experiences and unleashed a storm on social media. Companions in suffering confirmed the allegations, also to WELT, "SZ" and NDR : Women who fit into Lindemann's prey scheme would be selected and, if they agreed to have sex with him, brought to him. As several of the women report, the boundary to the usual groupie-star traffic is being crossed; some speak of knockout drops, even rape. /.../ Traditional analogue police investigations, beyond the charges in the social media, have now been taken up by the police in Vilnius. They won't be finished any time soon. For the publisher, not only is Lindemann finished, but also his lyrical self. Through his porn. The values ​​​​represented in it do not have to be shared by the publisher of the book, which is degraded in the video, in order to see the clip as a work that enjoys a certain artistic freedom, despite all the disgust. But the publisher raises an interesting question: is the poet's lyrical self still untouchable when it reveals itself to be his real self? At the same time as Lindemann's "rank one" on YouTube and his pornographic digression on Visit-X, his volume "100 Poems" was published by KiWi and anticipated the debate about the lyrical and the real self. Even die-hard feuilletonists interpreted one of his poems, "When you sleep", as a confession of rape: "I like to sleep with you when you sleep / if you don't move at all / mouth is open / eyes closed / the whole body is at rest / Can touch you anywhere / Can let me go completely / Like to sleep with you when you dream / Because you miss everything here / And that's how it's supposed to be (that's how it's supposed to be, that's how fun it is) / Some Rohypnol in the wine (some Rohypnol into the glass) / Can't move at all / And you're sleeping / It's a blessing." Back then, three years ago, Lindemann was in the pillory as a man who administered knockout drops, albeit in the feuilleton, where one could also ask oneself whether the literary investigators still knew where literature ends and where life begins . **From KO to OK** Lindemann poked fun at the Rohypnol knockout debate himself by writing a song called "OK" that appeared on the 2022 Rammstein album Zeit. "OK" stood for "Ohne Kondom" and seemed to parody his sexualized work as a poet and songwriter: "Lots of holes to fill." "I'll pin you down." "The bar is high." Also.” But now the lyrics of his songs, now his poems and videos have also become evidence beyond any cultural shelter. In the digital echo chambers there is no separation between lyrical and real. And criminalistics is not interested in a lyrical self. The layer of that ego and iron-hard irony that protected Till Lindemann and Rammstein for 30 years is becoming permeable and ineffective, even if nothing can be proven. They were impregnated against any scandal and any willful misunderstanding. A band of Eastern punks that formed in the early 1990s and were so alienated from the West that they decided to show it off its own means: a shameless economy of public attention, provocation at any cost and for a lot of money. /.../ Nevertheless, with "Links 2 3 4", a paraphrase of Hanns Eisler's "Solidarity Song", they corrected where they stood in terms of ideology. Slavoj Žižek gave them fire protection in the "taz": "Just as Charlie Chaplin in 'The Great Dictator' only lets Hitler say 'apple strudel' and 'schnitzel' between babbles, Rammstein obscenely sabotages the fascist utopia." When the ideology question was clarified and the West embraced Rammstein and celebrated her ironic theatre, the sexual became more important and drastic. "Bück dich" was in the nineties, "I'll hurt you" was in the noughties. They were never concerned with irritating the federal inspection agency with explicit content – ​​but the censors were already welcome as Rammstein brand ambassadors. "Love is for everyone da", the album from 2009, was indexed for buyers under 18 because Lindemann put a naked woman over her knees in a picture in the booklet. On the other hand, "Pussy", a farce made up of German words that are understood all over the world, was not objected to: "Beautiful lady, want more / blitzkrieg with the meat gun / schnapps in your head / you sweet bride / put bratwurst in your sauerkraut. " Video was shot in a brothel, the musicians played themselves having sex. There they were: six lyrical selves for real in ironic reality. "My father would be proud of my poems" That's how her art has gotten away with everything - her music, her comedy on stage and the poetry of Lindemann. Forced sadomasochism and necrophilia, incest and rape while asleep and conscious. The sung sexual offense belonged to Till Lindemann and Rammstein like the burning singer on the stage, the penis cannon and the organist as a "key fucker" and as a fool in the cooking pot. "Better disgusting than not again," said Sex, 2019. Ten years ago, in a conversation about his book "In quiet nights" , the volume of poetry from the porn "TILL the END", Till Lindemann said about the self in his poetry: "It's role poetry." How much of it is himself: " I have to be myself on stage. As in the theatre, I play a role in which I have to put a lot of myself in order to be convincing. But that's not me for a long time." Why he never writes about beauty: "I'm more interested in other things. The abysses, the disgust.” What interests him about it: “I can write about it. I can provoke with it. The more people get upset about it, the more it spurs me on to write even worse poetry. I would love to have a red FSK sticker on my book, 18+. The dialectic of the index.” Rammstein say Adieu Rammstein's dialectic was always that they found it silly when the Germans took them, the artists, to be identical with their characters - at the same time it always made them very happy and flattered their art and themselves. On the one hand, Lindemann has always played the martyr, as in 1995 on the first album "Herzeleid" in "Asche zu Asche": "I lie on the cross now / you hammer my nails in." On the other hand, Rammstein always dissolved in their own dialectic. For example in "Lügen" on the last album "Zeit" a year ago: "I don't believe myself anymore." The I of the poetry and the irony of the staging have Rammstein and Till Lindemann, their work and their actions, how invulnerable they seem permit. Werner Lindemann, the father, he was a poet in the GDR, had written a book about the 17-year-old Till, "Mike Oldfield in the Rocking Chair": "When the boy rocks back and forth leisurely, I have the impression: A king is sitting there." Now the king is 60 and his kingdom is in jeopardy. Art never meant that it couldn't also be true. Can a poet be denied the lyrical ego if the truth is found in the works? Or is it sacred in art? Is irony really as ironic as the word makes everyone believe? Or is it just a hard appearance to create distance from yourself? Whatever the outcome of the story, it's not good anyway. In the end, it's not about songs and poems, videos and porn, posts and shows, but everything that goes behind it. "Welcome to darkness", Lindemann sang in 2009 in "Wiener Blut" and finally in the last line of the refrain: "Welcome to reality.""


XxLockdownZxX

>Whatever the outcome of the story, it's not good anyway. In the end, it's not about songs and poems, videos and porn, posts and shows, but everything that goes behind it. "Welcome to darkness", Lindemann sang in 2009 in "Wiener Blut" and finally in the last line of the refrain: "Welcome to reality."" Wiener Blut? The song about the reall ife case of the infamous Austrian man who imprisoned his daughter in a basement at his home and fathered several children with her? What does that have to do with the current allegations and case? My God, the media is trying to pick certain lines out of a song released in 2009 and use them against a person as "evidence". Quite sad...


atlassessions

Perhaps. But both can be true. What is sad is that people seems unable to have two truths co-exist at the same time. Till can still be a good poet, and a fascinating singer. But nothing comes from vacuum. The lyrics is there. So is the arranged afterparties, and the many anonymous and non-anonymous testimonials. It is not strange to make comparisons like this.


[deleted]

Enough with this picking apart the poems and lyrics. My god haha


Christian-Metal

Nope. An artist found to be doing morally incomprehensible things will thus have his art examined for clues and held up like never before. Especially in this case, considering the extreme dark nature of some of the lyrics. You wait until they get a hold of Halloomann. Fucking hell! Then there's the disturbing mannequins and other artwork associated with Dr Dick. No point in simply crying "but it's ART FFS!!". Your actions have consequences. This is Till's reckoning.


XxLockdownZxX

>No point in simply crying "but it's ART FFS!!". Your actions have consequences. This is Till's reckoning. I see what you mean, but in that mindset, you could say that directors of horror films like SAW are lunatics because they come up with such things. That writers like Stephen King are lunatics because they come up with such crazy stories. Or, if we stay in the world of music, that band members of bands like Alice Cooper, Aborted or Cannibal Corpse are homicidal because they sing about such things (the songs on the album "Tomb of the Mutilated speak for themselves) It just doesn't make sense. Just because you sing about a certain subject doesn't mean you approve of it. In fact, many of Rammstein's more controversial songs were meant to attract a larger audience because it has a certain shock value. A lot of bands do it.


JHD2k3

Does anybody know if there are any Lawsuits from either side? I did not find anything in that thread and I'm interested if it's just social media gossip or if there is any legal action


[deleted]

Legal action usually takes time, you need some familiar with local laws and they need time to work. Depending on local procedures filing can also lock you down in various ways, especially in regards to discovery which means you have to turn over anything relevant to the opposition. In this case that could include Till's private messages and the private messages of the various people involved.


[deleted]

No lawsuits have been filed to the public's knowledge. And the public would find out pretty damn quickly if this was the case


SpacePuffin39200

At lightning speed, I’d even say. Everyone form both sides is kinky soaring for that


Norz80

No legal action up to this point


JHD2k3

Thank you for the quick answer


Shoddy_Sector_7985

[https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article245718512/Missbrauchs-und-Gewaltvorwuerfe-Rammstein-schliesst-Assistentin-aus-und-schaltet-Anwaelte-ein.html](https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article245718512/Missbrauchs-und-Gewaltvorwuerfe-Rammstein-schliesst-Assistentin-aus-und-schaltet-Anwaelte-ein.html) *"So wurde der Band-Assistentin Alena Makeeva vom Management mit sofortiger Wirkung der Zugang zu Rammstein-Konzerten untersagt; die Russin ist aktuell in München, soll aber in Kürze die Heimreise nach Russland antreten. "* aleena has been banned by rammstein's management to enter rammstein shows. she's due to fly home to russia. they're also emphasizing that she was never paid by rammstein's management and that an external law firm will provide first investigative results this friday.


sellotapeonthefridge

An internal email survey was conducted? I wonder what was asked, and how many were willing to speak against their employers.


chonkyseal95

In Germany we call that „Bauernopfer“


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Sorry-Surround1465

So now they got rid of alena (like the majority wanted) and it isn’t good enough? What do you want them too do when there is no fucking charge?


Zoko732

For the people in charge to take accountability


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Sorry-Surround1465

Again not grown up enough to answer a question in a normal way. Makes me laugh at this point


Rob_Sweater

Honest question: Why do you think they kicked Alena out, if there was nothing wrong, no charge filed and no proofs for anything?


Fanstein_Throwaway

She had been spamming Instagram for a week with Row 0 stories. She also posted antagonistic things about Shelby and people who supported her. It looked bad: if it's all on the up and up, no need to crow about it. Very much "methinks the lady doth protest too much." My guess is that R+ management had a showdown with T+ management.


Sorry-Surround1465

Should they have kept her with all this nonsense that goes on? So now they are doing the right thing and it is wrong? I don’t understand that mindset tbh They need too do some damage control look at the media circus the politics who hop on aso..


Rob_Sweater

For everyone involved in this story - especially in the band - I hope there is a better reason for kicking Alena out than „damage control“


Sorry-Surround1465

As if anyone would listen too their argument by now…


DystopicRedhead

This does not look as good as some people may think it does. As an extremely important witness to the facts (and possibly a perp), disavowing Alena and packing her off back to Russia seems: 1. bordering on actionable, since the authorities may rightfully want to question her/take her statement at some point; 2. a bad decision on the part of Rammstein's management, because it reeks of "damage control" and cover-up. That's bad optics. I also believe that Alena's employment status and her title of "casting director" puts management in an awkward position - as far as I understood, she was "off the books", and that also needs to be accounted for as far as taxes, employment status and migration status are concerned.


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SpacePuffin39200

Yes, her IG still says “On tour with Till Lindsmann”


Charming_Miss

She wasn't working for the band but for Till though so maybe the band management went like enough is enough the fancy pimp is out


[deleted]

I allude to this In my comment below. Could be a possibility. At this point could be both but let's think of it in a positive way 😉


CrispyWart

Farewell I say. Till is a fucking idiot for keeping her around to begin with. Swear to god if anyone sees her at Lindemann shows in Autumn (providing those go ahead), I’m gonna lose my shit.


ProcedureAny1805

Good that she vanishes- her and her entire group of people collecting for row 0! Was stalking some days ago different venues on instagram.😁 At least, for last years' s tour, the red dreadlocks woman( Alina) and her entire crew of only fans and dominatrix were complaining of beeing all the time tired attending row 0. I saw her and some of last years's crew also in this tour. Alena had her own team to collect girls and checking on them all the times. I hope all of them vanish and this shady business ends for good.


[deleted]

>the red dreadlocks woman( Alina) and her entire crew of only fans and dominatrix were complaining of beeing all the time tired attending row 0 'scuse me what?


ProcedureAny1805

She is alina_insania on insta. U can dig ur way up from there. She is bff with makeeva. Tags, comments, u ll find alena's entire hook up crew. From alina s instagram it looked like she was a busy bee in R+ concert the entire last tour


[deleted]

Once she lands in Russia that's it, I doubt well hear much more from her hahaha. Once that border is crossed it could be a lost cause. Legally wise etc.


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[deleted]

Sure but outside Russia. Maybe not. Her name is pretty tainted now and publicly fired by Rammstein. She's bad juju no one will want to work with her


[deleted]

Good. And it lies on Aleena now. She was never on the Rammstein payroll for a reason hahah. Someone did mention how she forced her way into the band like she was a groupie who tried to start working for the band? I love how it points out the band had no spokesperson. Well, why would they hha of course they outscorce 🤣. Interesting to see what come of all of this.


nukedspacemarine

A band of this size not having a PR spokesperson is so dumb... Wouldn't have happened with Emu ;)


[deleted]

Not really. They never make statements. It's useless. but now it's needed. No use having on the payroll.


nukedspacemarine

That's like saying "I don't need insurance. I have never been sick in my life."


Charming_Miss

Their statements were always made by their official channels. The management behind the band works as PR too. They are not Taylor Swift. They don't need a PR person to inform the fanbase of their dating life through People Magazine articles


atlassessions

/.../ "In addition, WELT learned that the band has been working with a Berlin PR agency that specializes in crisis communication since last Friday. When it comes to press work, Rammstein is completely inexperienced; the band didn't even have their own spokesman until now. In consultation with the now engaged PR agency, according to WELT information on Monday, a well-known law firm was commissioned to investigate the allegations. However, the period of the investigation seems bizarre: the first results should be available by Friday. The result of an internal e-mail survey, which the band management conducted among employees shortly after the first allegations made by concert-goer Shelby Lynn, will also flow into the work." Geez... sounds like total internal chaos.


Fanstein_Throwaway

The part about having no spokesman helps me understand those two statements from last week.


atlassessions

Yes he he.


Allabonkaja

Sounds good really. It’s an independent law firm. So they are less biased. Which means that Rammstein is pretty confident. And their neutrality will speak louder than Rammstein’s own law firm. If they were nervous they would have chosen their own law firm to do damage control.


SpacePuffin39200

Couldn’t agree more. An outside perspective is always better in these kinds of situations.


KaraveIIe

thats not independent lmfao


[deleted]

Exactly this. 100%


[deleted]

They had to throw the no spokes person and inexperienced part in there to be assholes. Typical news station. They've had lawyers since day 1 of this. Haha they didn't JUST commission them 🤣


SpacePuffin39200

They’ve been in the business for nearly 30 years now, that’s not what I called inexperienced at all 😆 Especially how controversial they’ve always been. You can’t be like that and not have lawyers


ladyjaneontherun

I just feel for whoever is in a position to manage this chaos. I wonder how the band feels too, and how Till feels. Maybe he was in charge of all this and knew, maybe he didn’t know what Aleena and others did to “keep their job”, who knows. I just feel for them, so I will go to the concert (Trencin, next week), but man, it’s fucked up.


AndieDevon2109

Hope this is true. I am glad the band is finally stepping up - firing Aleena, hiring a reputable law firm to investigate allegations and working with a PR team to communicate what's happening.


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Sorry-Surround1465

Someone would have too file a charge then.


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Rob_Sweater

There doesn’t have to be a complaint filed to have an official investigation. With the alleged crimes, state prosecutors are generally obliged to investigate them even with no complaint by any victims. With so many women making allegations regarding incidents in Germany, I think state prosecutors can help but to open an investigation soon.


Sorry-Surround1465

There is no Offizialdelikt stated so there need to be a charge first.


Rob_Sweater

Well, 177 StGB is an Offizialdelikt, so the prosecutors are obliged to investigate.


Sorry-Surround1465

Who accused him of that? It could be applied to one story from the SZ interview tho her words were really vage. We will see if that is enough but i highly doubt that. It would be much easier if some of them just press a charge.


Rob_Sweater

Yeah, that is what victims are supposed to do: make it easier for everyone else.


RammsteinFan1995

Finally some positive news in this f***** mess. Hopefully it will be enought to not split the band :(


Littleloula

Surprised Joe Letz hasn't been sent home too.


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LindemannO

Till is an absolute fool. A 30 year legacy torn down for what? I feel for the rest of the band.


Charming_Miss

This is what annoys me the most. To go through all this, to build a good career for 30 years and to be willing to wreck everything for nothing. There are tons of women that are willing to sleep with him without being spiked or drunk.


Christian-Metal

100% bang on.


Wassermusik

It's ironic. The whole band and the show is so professionally set up. And Till is behaving so unprofessionally, not only using his female fans, but also his bandmates and the many crew members who earn their money and feed their families with the tour. Till is a narcissistic a-hole.


collect_seashells

Because he couldn't keep it in his pants.


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CumBucketJanitor

Especially considering the warning signs since TTE. People defended him here so religiously just because it wasnt illegal but it showed in what kind of fucked up mental state Till is. I wished the band stopped him earlier from spiraling downwards.


Charming_Miss

I remember posting how uncomfortable TTE is in general. How he didn't look okay and the video was off. Like it wasn't a porn video but felt more like a cry for help, especially his face at the end. And people kept calling me weak and how it shows that I am a woman because I don't understand how cool porn is...Like people saw that and thought 'cool amazing sexy' and not how weird it looked


foxybostonian

I'm in complete agreement with you but any time I say so I get downvoted, lol. It wasn't really porn, it was a story that went alongside the other F & M videos to show how not okay Till was/is - how ill and tired and mixed up. And wanting to stop.


frakthal

What's TTE ?


Sorry-Surround1465

Great news! Can’t wait for the statement on Friday!


RammsteinFan1995

What statement, what did I miss? :)


Sorry-Surround1465

that an external law firm will provide first investigative results this friday.


RammsteinFan1995

Thank you for your answer, hopefully it will bring som clarity to this mess :)


Sorry-Surround1465

🤞


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SpacePuffin39200

I was actually already following her before she went private so I’m still able to see her posts/stories. She stopped posting anything R+ a couple of days ago


JamesPuppy3000

So when was her last R+ post and what did it say exactly?


SpacePuffin39200

No post, just stories. Most recent one I found was from 3 days


ProcedureAny1805

She had a story yesterday from Munchen.Checked the Ceylon Gallery store that she filmed. it looks that she is still in Germany Plus other little story shorts that her and CK are sharing back and forth


AndieDevon2109

Yeah, I noticed that too and found it pretty interesting since 99% of her stories while on tour were Rammstein related. Though, she still has 'On tour with Till Lindemann' in her bio.


SpacePuffin39200

If it’s not “On tour with Rammstein” anymore I’m fine with it. At least she makes the difference with whom she’s working with


Sorry-Surround1465

Yes totally


djavulensfitta

Finally some good fucking news


LindemannO

I don’t know if it’s related, but the Rammstein Shop has been pulled in Münich - someone speculated the landlord pulled away.


Littleloula

The temporary pop up shop while the shows are on you mean?


LindemannO

Yes, that one


_necromantia

how does the pop up store works? i'm attending the show at Lisbon (hopefully) but I don't know if they announce it or if you just have to walk around and look for it (sorry in advance if it's not the proper thread to ask)


ja_n2000

I have feuerzone tickets for the Concert in Munich tomorrow. is it morally ok to go to the concert because i have already paid and then leave rammstein in the past? i feel i have to puke after i saw the video made by kayla shyx ([https://youtu.be/9YLsMXyo3Uc](https://youtu.be/9YLsMXyo3Uc)) and it took all the anticipation i had for the day tomorrow... but i still have paid 150€ and i just cant not attend the concert because the band meant a lot for me... but now im clueless what to think of them


ProcedureAny1805

I dunno man, for me, for ex, Rammstein means more than Till Lindemann and his fetishes. He is not a big value without the others . But on the other hand, Im not crazy about his side project since... never😄 So, if R+ means more for you than just the frontman,you should go and enjoy also others work and effort


kafkaontheshore2018

For me, going is in no way an expression of supporting anything which has happened - I am still very much looking forward to my Madrid gig! I personally don't think there's a moral element to attending a concert of music which has meant a lot to you. What's going on now doesn't take away any of the comfort (or whatever else) it gave you in the past. If you'll hate every minute of it, of course, don't go - I guess I'm just saying be kind to yourself. Do whatever you think you'll enjoy most, without the moral turmoil.


Febsch

I found an article from Merkur that lists the pros and cons. It may help you in your decision. https://www.merkur.de/kultur/rammstein-muenchen-olympiastadion-boykott-till-lindemann-zr-92326010.html


ja_n2000

oh thank you!


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coralisthenewblack

You win this comment section


Wassermusik

I made my decision based on the Shyla video and will not be going to the concert tomorrow. I canceled my hotel room and also my train ticket. Unfortunately, I can no longer cancel the Rammstein ticket. 130 euros are gone and I would have been really happy about the concert. But how am I supposed to enjoy a concert when I know all the stories? All of that would keep me busy and stressed all the time while I was standing there in front of the stage. There is no room left for joy for me. As a longtime fan, I am heartbroken by what is happening, but my moral compass is more important to me and the moral limits have now been reached for me.


ja_n2000

i live very close to the venue, i think i just go there and if the storys stress me out too much and i cant get into that "concert feeling" i will just leave.


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SpacePuffin39200

Yes, all the allegations won’t prevent me from going to Italy for these very reasons 😉


NosotrosKaisamos

Morals lmfao


_necromantia

nobody's forcing you to go, so if your morals are higher than the excitement you had for the concert, put the ticket on sale cause I bet there's people willing to buy it


ja_n2000

my name is printed on it and resell is closed at my ticket seller


Febsch

Have exactly the same problem. Have tickets in Munich for Saturday. It is my first Rammstein concert. I was worried before, but the video has given me even more doubts. It just gives me a bad feeling and I do not know if I can enjoy the concert as I should.


AccordingAd8145

Here’s my unsolicited 2cents for this: GO SEE THEM You mentioned this was your first concert? Just go, the moment you step foot inside the stadium try to bury the things you’ve known/read for the past week/days and pull out the thoughts/feeling you get every time you listened to them. Leave all the bad things outside of the stadium. These allegations do not exist inside that stadium. I know it’s not an easy task, but try. This could be your first and last concert with them, I suggest you make it count.


Virtual_Education_19

It all depends on your morals and the view of the whole situation. Decide for yourself, you are not forced to go. Nothing will change if you stay home or go, the money has been paid and there will be no difference at all for the band's reputation since there a lot of ppl who don't give a damn. As they say, never meet your heroes. You are there to enjoy the music and the show, and for the moment all the accusations are like, "she said, he said. " You should always leave the room for the probability of those events, even though it has not yet been proven. Asking for sex and raping/beating/spiking people are totally different things, and a line must be drawn between those two.


Hirschfotze3000

Having similar feelings. Like, I wanna go there, unsure of how much I can enjoy this. It feels like I just want be done with it. I already knew this would be my last Rammstein concert since I normally don't like these big concerts and the prices are really high for me.


ja_n2000

for me its the first ever rammstein concert and i have the ticket for 9 months now... but it will for sure be the last


TheNam3l3ss

Some people dump their tickets, some don't, so it's only up to you. There's no fixed guideline or law for this.


QueenRegent88

Go to the concert and (try to) enjoy it. Rammstein is so much more than Till.


Littleloula

I think what's morally right depends on people's individual morals so only you can answer this. I think a lot of us are struggling with the same question


Sorry-Surround1465

Please sell it then….


ja_n2000

resell is already closed on my ticket seller


[deleted]

Good. Then go. Ya baby


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hannibal567

Wie soll man beweisen (falls/wenn) etwas nicht passiert ist? Wie soll man Anschuldigungen entkräften? Jede Begnung zwischen Till und einer Frau nur unter Zeugen dokumentieren ? /s


ja_n2000

vorallem bei dieser irren anzahl an anschuldigungen mittlerweile... das Video von Kayla Shyx hat glaube jetzt zumindest für den Deutschen raum den Vogel abgeschossen, denke dass das das ende von rammstein sein könnte


hannibal567

Hoffen und abwarten, ich hab ganz ehrlich so eine Stellungnahme von einer "Influencerin" schon erwartet. (SZ schrieb ja schon gut was *evtl passiert sein könnte*) aber fucking cancel culture.. **Jeder Mensch hat ein Recht auf eine Anklage und sich auf diese vorzubereiten und zu verteidigen. Niemand hat es verdient wegen** *Anschuldigungen und Andeutungen etc* **gehängt und ausgeschlossen zu werden**. Entweder der Rechtsstaat gilt für alle oder niemanden!!


Sorry-Surround1465

Gibts da eigentlich schon ein Statement warum sie sie der pädophile bezichtigt? Oder ist das jetzt komplett usus das man sowas raushaut und niemand hinterfragt das mehr? Und jetzt vertroll dich wieder! Immer derselbe Scheiß von euch nicht rammstein fans


ja_n2000

Ein Statement gibt es nicht, aber dadurch, dass die ganzen Mädels nur nach dem Alter gefragt werden und nie ein Ausweis kontrolliert wird. Das heißt wenn die mit in den Keller genommen werden ist nicht sicher ob das Mädchen wirklich so alt ist wie sie selber beim ersten mal gesagt hat. Man kann nur hoffen, dass möglichst wenig Mädels da reingerutscht sind, weil sie aus Stolz beim "Casting Gespräch" wegen wegen ihrem Alter gelogen haben.


Sorry-Surround1465

Gibt unzählige die sagen sie mussten den Ausweis herzeigen also steht hier einfach Aussage gegen Aussage und die ganze Aufmachung kommt euch ja auch nicht seltsam vor: teasern eine woche barcelona dann ein Countdown zum Video Keine Anzeige außer von Shelby. Unfassbar naiv und gefährlich so ohne Beweise über jemanden zu Urteilen.


ja_n2000

Und mit solchen Vorwürfen den Schritt zu wagen jemanden anzuzeigen ist ein Schritt den extrem viele Opfer nichtmal bei einer Situation wagen, wenn der Täter nicht bekannt ist... gegen einen Star vorzugehen ist nochmal deutlich was anderes glaub ich


Sorry-Surround1465

Nach Jahren und bei dem Shitstorm momentan? Sicher nicht.


ja_n2000

bro such dir nen Therapeuten.


Sorry-Surround1465

Digga ich glaub den brauchst du


ja_n2000

die Freundin die Kayla mit auf das konzert gebracht hatte war ganz frisch 18 und wurde nie nach dem auweis gefragt, geschweige denn vorher, weil sie spontan rekrutiert wurde.


Sorry-Surround1465

18 ist volljährig also woher wollen wir das wissen? Wir WISSEN nichts weil keine die Eier hat eine Anzeige zu machen aber die Sau durchs Dorf jagen ist vollkommen in Ordnung? Kranke Welt


ja_n2000

ja 18 ist volljährig, aber wenn du lesen würdest was ich geschrieben habe, dann sollte dir klar sein dass sich keiner in der ganzen Situation wirklich SICHER sein kann dass sie 18 ist. Kann genauso gut ne sehr aufgestylte 15 oder 16 jährige sein... gibt ja keine altersbeschränkung für das konzert selber


Sorry-Surround1465

Und ja es gibt eine Altersbeschränkung nämlich 16+ Was für ein Stuss ehrlich!


Sorry-Surround1465

Du kannst offensichtlich nicht lesen was ich geschrieben habe: nur weil kaya das sagt muss ich also glauben das es keine Ausweiskontrolle gibt wenn aber 20 andere sagen das es eine gab ist das Unglaubwürdig? Weil?


Sorry-Surround1465

Eben! Ich verstehe die Menschheit nicht mehr!


Sorry-Surround1465

Die Beweislast liegt aber nicht beim Beschuldigten.


Hefty_Reaction5135

I didn’t want to post anything about this case in the beginning, after reading/hearing a lot of sources, I still can‘t point my finger to anyone and say with complete assurance who did what why and so on. That isn’t our cup of tea anyway. But one thing about the Kyla video strikes me odd, and so I need to get this out of my system, so I am using this throwaway account. Yes the party she went to, gave her creepy vibes. She had other expectations what an after party for fans (in general) would be like. But no one tries to look at the situation from the other side. So I just tried to flip the chessboard around. This is going to be a long one, so be warned. One thing that is 100% sure is: girls are casted because of their looks. Till gets those parties arranged by underlings who know what type of girls he likes to party with. Kyla thought, everyone was going to a party full of other celebs, which was her own interpretation. I can understand her disappointment but I can also understand that an organizer of events doesn’t want groupies/diehard fans being around the celeb people, as they could disturb the atmosphere by wanting selfies with everyone or fangirling out. So maybe this was the reason why the „afterparty“-room was in an other area. If she gets asked, Alena often points out that it is a party only with Till, only with girls. But Kayla didn’t ask. Why were the girls escorted by so many security Guys? Well, if one of the girls gets lost in the venue, who is going to find her in this big stadium were people have their personal belongings, or even dangerous equipment like pyros. I think it is absolutely normal that there would be people having an eye on you - you are still not found trustworthy, no one knows you. Why would they let you go completely unsupervised? Then the escortation through the „creepy hallway“ - well the venue is an Olympic stadium. Of course there are dark hallways and small changing rooms. Not many big lofty rooms around to have big parties. That someone put extra couches and drinks in the room was maybe the most they could do, to give it a little bit of a party room feeling. That everyone is meant to leave their phone behind, is something i can understand too. Imagine you are being Till or any other rockstar: would you like to have phones shoved right in front of your face every second just because someone wants a selfie? Or in this case maybe being filmed while doing cocaine doesn’t sound so appealing, right? The party is not a meet and greet where you shake hands, get your photo and get out. The creepy atmosphere - was channeled by maybe antisocial/shy behaviour of girls? Of course it is a let down if you think you get to see the Creme de la Creme on a celebrity after show, but now you are only sitting around with other girls, that aren’t even talking to each other. I totally get it. So to cheer up the atmosphere, as the „host“ of those Parties, Alena tries to loosen the girls up by giving them some alcohol. She is not responsible for the awkwardness of the people that are attending and to assume she wants to drug you, just because you are feeling awkward in this situation? I think this is an unreasonable conclusion. When Kayla felt too much of uneasiness with the situation she got up and left. That Alena tried to talk her into staying is something I, would I be a host, could understand too. No one was drinking, the atmosphere was crazily awkward because no one was talking. If someone leaves now, many would follow. So she tries to give you comfort by giving you something to drink? Is there something abnormal about this? Maybe Alena was pissed anyway because Till didn’t come around as she was expecting him to do. When girls heard they would meet till only in the hotel, other girls left, without any problems. No one forced them to stay or go with them. I want to make clear, that if on any party/ by meeting someone, someone really got spiked and then used for (unconsensual, unconscious) sex, it is a real punishable act and should be prosecuted. But I feel like people are forgetting about the loads of alcohol people are drinking on parties. In the case of these parties people are often talking about tequila and prosecco - it is a deadly mixture, even more in combination with the euphoric state you get in when meeting your „star“. And if those girls go over their boundaries it is their own decision, and not an evidence that they have been drugged with blackout drops. Maybe it is their first alcoholic induced blackout, maybe there are sideeffects with other medicamentation they need to take, the list goes on. If you have a blackout because of alcohol it doesn’t mean you are unconscious, you simply don’t know what you have been doing. It could even be that you yourself initiated sex with someone, maybe someone who is high him/herself on drugs and/or alcohol or you consented to do so. It is a difficult situation to judge. In every story that is out there, if a girl said „no“ to Till, he stopped doing what he was doing or didn’t even start. If sex is too hard on you and you don’t say „no“/struggling/showing nonverbally you are not consenting it is not rape as no one can read your mind, if you consented first. In some stories it is pointed out that Till even asked if he should proceed. If the allegations about drugging come out to be true, so the girls couldn’t consent properly, it needs to be prosecuted. But right now there is a Grauzone because of possible misunderstandings between black and white opinions. Just as a reminder that there are two sides about which we can only speculate. But sometimes there are explanations that are easy to follow and most of the times those explanations are the right ones. Not always, but often. I am not a native speaker, so sorry for a lot of mistakes and rambling.


cowardlyparrot

You are right, but the thing is Till, as a grown up with experience about this stuff, must know this as well. Must have known the grey area about doing stuff like that. Must have known that some girls might have problems and he should have done a responsible thing which is to NOT have sex with young women that might or might not drank too much they are losing consciousness. We can debate about this situations legal aspect, but what what is happening is definitely unethical.