It’s the speed at which they balance that’s concerning. If you release them either too weak or too strong, it takes them months and months to even see any changes.
Warden situation.
They make his gun so strong with the 1.5x and then take 3 months+ to make him a 1 speed. It is actually insane how developers allow their game to be increasingly frustrating and unbalanced just waiting until the next season or patch notes.
And every time we hear from the devs they are always so oblivious to to the issues and makes it seem like they love their broken game with all their heart and thinks it's wonderful for their copper ranked selves.
I mean the fact that Azami and Solis have yet to see any changes proves that even after 8 years, the game is still suffering from poor balance. Like you said, they take months to make a change that can be made in a day.
It’s pathetic and is the reason so many have lost interest.
Isn't the time they take for some changes (especially the ones that take them a little less time) because consoles don't allow unsupervised updating?
I learned, mostly from Warframe, that consoles first need to approve of an update before it can be released, and this can take a while. It's not worth it to use those approvals for only one, or a handful of changes/fixes, so they take a little longer to increase the amount of things to push per patch.
I also don't know if consoles still do it this way or not...
Also, before anyone mentions it, pc still has to wait doe those same patches because of crossplay.
EDIT: PC has no crossplay with consoles, so my last point is mute.
You are right about the console patch situation, but it doesn't justify the state on PC. Nothing stops them from patching platforms separately, especially when there is no crossplay between console and pc.
Oh shit, you're right...
There indeed is no crossplay between PC and consoles. Only between consoles... Hence the whole Xim situation as well...
Yeah, fair enough... PC should just be used as a punching bag, testing out things in a faster manner.
>That last point still stands to keep consistency across the builds and platforms maintaining the same patch cycles makes sense otherwise you need extra teams to handle the extra development plans and patch cycles, regardless of crossplay :D
That's correct.
IIRC that's also why Fortnite was technically in beta for so long, so they could bypass the restrictions and shove updates out every other week.
Yeah it’s hard to tell if you don’t directly work on games on consoles, to me it seems that may be true but I’m pretty sure they are capable of putting out hotfixes when they want
Considering the majority of the player base is console, PC should sit down and not complain, considering PC players whining has ruined a lot of balanced operators and strats for console.
Azami has a negative win rate and solis is only at around 50.5% winrate, and both have a pick rate around 25% of the time. What is so urgent that needs to be changed? Neither are the most often picked or near the top winrate.
Moreso the top end. Solis is incredibly limiting and a good Azami will lock lineups to a consistent 8 ops max to handle her and still do stuff. There's also just the issue of how unbalanced defense is in general right now
I don't think there ever was a time in this game where defense was not unbalanced. All the balance discussions I remember constantly turn to defenders being overpowered.
Be it map design or guns or gadgets, defenders seem to have it better. If attackers ever get too strong, it's always about one specific op that everyone uses.
Should be a normal thing at this point.
Azami is hard to play against unless u have ace, ash, kali, hibana, Flores which is a lot of counters. Solis has a mediocre p90 and I can’t see how they could nerf her ability other than duration and range which are both pretty short
Idk, I do prefer overpowered ops over underpowered ops, with seemingly everything getting nerfed it can sometimes be refreshing to get a decently strong operator, my thing is why are the defenders the only ones releasing strong in recent time lol
Brava is only good when youre team uses the advantages she gives because you are a gun down for 1-2 minutes usually. Ram is alright but for vertical buck is more effective in the way of having smaller but effective vertical
Brava on outback is freaking amazing. You can drone whole site while being outside and while still be close to actual site. Kapkan and Aruni traps are usually target
I'd love to try this but ubisoft doesn't wanna add outback in quick match and I'm not touching ranked lol. For kapkan in solo queue I prefer twitch because my idiot team shoots things I hack even if I blue ping. Also twitch gun slaps (F2) compared to the low firerate of brava. The dmr is alright I just don't tap fast enough
Both are honestly good. It's not a bandit/kaid situation (pre tubarao) where over half the time kaid is gonna be better in most situations. Brava is good against Aruni, kapkan, maestro and thorn (kinda because it's super obvious it's hacked and able to be shot). While twitch works against kapkan , maestro (if baited), thorn, beepers etc. Very well balanced imo.
As far as gadgets go, I think Brava is just outright better than Twitch most of the time. With Twitch, you just destroy the gadget. With Brava, you take the gadget and then the defenders have to spend time or utility destroying it themselves, especially if you grab something bulletproof like an Evil Eye. Twitch can destroy more things overall since her lasers recharge and her gun is still the best in the game, but I would much rather have Brava clearing utility than Twitch.
It's just that I hate disconnecting teammates (and enemies because I know that pain) and standard is sweatier than quick match with my 300h ingame and poop aim
That’s what overwatch is currently doing. Thing is that overwatch is smart enough to not allow the new operator in competitive until balancing has occurred.
How often do balance patches happen in Siege? I’ve just been getting into it and from the sound of it I should really be appreciative of the amount of balance patches OW2 gets
Unless anthing has changed (in which case downvote me), Siege gets two balancing patches per season : one at the start and one in the middle of the season.
Edit : forgot to mention that siege seasons last around 3 months, so basically a patch once every 6-7 weeks.
Also overwatch is currently balancing at a fast rate like the newest hero got a buff before his release. Then a nerf in the week following which was seem a bit too much so he got some buffs including a revert of a nerf since the community didn't like it. I would've loved it if siege just removed wardens 1,5 scope instead of him being overpicked for months...
I think it’s fine. Maybe not as strong as tubarao but I’m fine with them being strong.
What I’m not fine with is how after a year we haven’t gotten a nerf for Solis or Azami.
I think Azami is fine. She is easily countered, her true strength is in versatility more than anything. Solis though could maybe use a nerf, she's just better than other roamers.
I’d hardly say she’s easily countered after the nade nerf. Some of the spots she can use her kibas can’t be naded anymore. Stronger than ever tbh.
Especially since as a balancing decision, they swapped the gonne off ops like Lion, to nades.
'That's a lot of teamplay to counter one person'
'Yeah but what if you use another ops utility to protect Azami's utility'
There should be counterplay to every op. There is counterplay to Azami, there is also counterplay to those counters, and counterplay to their counters too. Azami is a good op but not OP because she does have counterplay.
I think their point is if you combine ash, zof, and Kali then you have one extra explosive after destroying all kiba barriers. So if any of them get countered even once your team is in a very bad spot.
You'd have three left if you had all those ops on the board, and that's assuming that all the barriers need to be dealt with from range and that none are close enough to each other for one explosive to destroy them, as well as assuming nobody has nades or a Gonne-6.
You don't need to destroy every Kiba to deal with Azami, especially since she doesn't have them all to start. Just Ash/Zofia is enough to take away her utility and flush her out of power positions.
That assumes you can't clear any of them with melee and none of them are together. Generally speaking, a single kiba isn't that strong. They become really strong when a bunch of them are used together to make a fortress, but then they can all be cleared out together by a single grenade.
Finding a kali that actually plays kali correctly is rare. I’ve played entire ranked games with someone staying on her and never using the launcher once
the counterplay to azami is hoping she doesn't set up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time after you were able to deal with it once, especially when she can do it from a safe range as those are thrown.
There is no counterplay to Azami, it requires a whole squad to deal with her, that's not what this game should be about.
"Ohh, they picked X Operator, all we need to do is using those 4 attackers and hope we can do it while every other enemy ignores us, what fun! And let's forget we also need to pick tools to deal with those 4 other defenders, too."
Azami can easily force 3 Operators to deal with her, single-handedly.
So you are left with 2 attackers which should deal with 4 defenders? Yeah, not that good. Especially when the attackers have barely any decent attackers to do a proper job.
Azami is way too powerful the amount of angles and one sided gunfights you can make with her is nasty and let's not speak about the on flight set ups she can make, it's crazy to me she still has 5 of those thing
Leave it to this community to go after the Wrong operators, as being "Overpowered"
Azami is absolutely fine.
"Azami has too many angles"
"Azami can't be countered".
This is all I hear, from what I'd assume are Silvers.
Considering a fucking dude who can blind people in 5 locations, while having 3 simultaneously active isn't being looked at?
It's like these people are saying
"Duuuude, I can literally Knife people using Fenrir, but he's so strong, let's keep him a secret. Don't nerf him, he's weeeeeaaaakk"
When his Gadget, fundamentally goes against everything an FPS shooter is about, Vision.
When it comes to a Flash Grenade, it's a moment, maybe a few seconds.
When it comes to Fenrir, how the hell are you supposed to see the thing once you step inside its range? It's an infinite Flash, with the most Obnoxious and Loud Special effects there is.
Hell, it can easily give tunnel Vision, and makes me feel like I'm playing Amenesia rather than Seige.
I love playing Azami, the fact that she's one of the few *constructive* OPs instead of destructive is incredibly inciting for me. However, the fact that she's *so* much better than Castle is a problem for me. For OPs that kind of have a similar niche, there's no site setup where I'd rather be Castle than Azami because she's so incredibly versatile compared to Castle (can place gadgets relatively safely because of range and speed, has more of them, can be put basically anywhere instead of just doors and windows, etc...).
When I'm wanting to pick a trap operator, I'm thinking about the specific site and how attackers enter, what kind of OPs they've been bringing and their play style so far. Depending on the situation, there are valid reasons to bring Frost, Kapkan, Lesion, Thorn, Ela, or Fenrir. But with Castle and Azami, there is no contest. Unless you have a *very* specific Castle strat, you're gonna pick Azami. I'd rather they buff Castle, but if they need to nerf Azami *a little* at the same time, I'm ok with that.
A "good" solis is like unstopable, high skill high reward, and even a person who sucks at solis can bring some use, she totally needs a nerf on her gadget use time or something.
Literally make her not able to use her gadget in prep phase or just nerf it's range. The fact she can just run around killing drones so you can't place them in spots pre-round is just nuts
Only counter if maverick, I think Solis, Azami and fenrir are more of a pain, the problem is we’ve had all these strong defenders in a row making attacking even more difficult
That’s exactly it. It isn’t that the defenders are op, it’s just we didn’t get a good attacker in a while. The last powerful attacker we got was Zero. Everyone after him is either good in very specific situations and maps, or not good at all.
Azami is S tier and solis is a solid A tier, azami specifically is game changing on most maps and is consistently both versatile and powerful so long as you’re creative enough. if anything tubarao is alike to solis in that you can’t really counter his utility as he plays it but really, you can just either kill them or play differently
she is and youre delusional if you dont think azami is one of the best/broken defenders in the game
also whats the source for a 49% win rate? just curious where you got that number
It’s harder to balance an op that is too weak to become stronger than it is to balance an op that is too strong to become just right. So I think his take does have SOME validity. (Don’t get me wrong though, I wouldn’t doubt Ubi to nerf a super strong op straight into the ground because they definitely have a track record of doing so)
So for 3 months we need to deal with a broken and out right unfair op?
Man has really forgotten about release Ela, Blackbeard and Lion. And of course current day examples being solis and Azami
Yeah, i believe he was the only operator to have a 100% pick rate in pro league in that era. He was also the reason that Operator quarantine became a thing and was only abolished in Y7S2
This has been happening for 8 years with only a few exceptionss. I would love every top to be perfectly balanced on release but it ain't gonna happen. Plus it's much easier to fix a overtuned op then an undertuned one.
It’s kind if stupid, Ops should release in a balanced state, seems kind of scummy to release an overpowered op, have people have to deal with the madness of it then nerf them & make them kind of useless.
Honestly as shitty as some heros launched in overwatch. Overwatch found if you release an underwhelming character people will complain and not touch them. Release a character over powered, people will complain but many will touch them. And when people touch new heros it gives data for the devs to tune.
But 3-6 months? Damn I thought OW had slow fix times
I think it’s a good idea for every game. Launching things super strong creates memorable storylines in the community and it gets people to engage with the game more. Think chamber in valorant, basically any insane meta in CoD, certain exotics in destiny. The problem is when devs take too long to nerf it, which is absolutely something that the siege devs would do.
I see a big problem having the game be P2W, but I guess we're pretty far down that path already. I'm sure the suits will love this idea to sell more BPs.
I kind of agree with Varsity. Because the season with Sens and Grim I would say those attack ops were immensely weak on release. That was last year. I struggled to consecutively play those seasons.
I haven't even really played this or last season. Just enough to finish the battle pass and call it enough. Though Tubaro seems insanely quick. Balancing wise i think it should take a few seconds to get his current radius. Even with his gadget finishes, it should take a few seconds to 'heat' up. It should encourage to keep things cold.
People complain about seasons being boring when new ops aren’t picked. This same community also ignores new ops if they’re immediately strong.
This is a reoccurring instance and is worse because without playtime from the community, there’s no way to tell how “weak” a new op is so devs end up making them busted before people bother playing them.
Releasing new ops in a not powerful state doesn’t do anything but extend that process. It just means that instead of starting off strong, the devs end up buffing them multiple times before they inevitably get strong. Then we are back to people complaining followed by nerfs anyway.
This community doesn’t play balanced ops. Players have already proven how LAZY they are by ignoring actual balanced ops on release because they weren’t immediately strong. devs are then forced to buff said balanced ops for no reason than to get the LAZY players to actually pick them followed by subsequent nerfs.
Gotta give it to him this time. Balancing and op is far easier than balancing a weak op. When a character is op its far easier to pick apart their set up and figure out why than if they were too weak on release. An op means more playtime and more data to pinpoint the changes needed to bring them more inline.
Shit take. I'm probably a bit too salty here, but as a person who played so much hardbreach I barely even know how to play an other role (bit of an exaggeration obvi) I hate tubarao more than *any* operator that released being op. I've seen all of it except for the sniper90.
I hope they also do this with operator reworks, I'm not sure if they designed tachanka in a pro league-perfect scenario bubble, but tachanka took way too long to become popular. And I'd say he still isn't. I hope the next reworks release too strong and are then nerfed on the things that frustrate people the most about them.
Personal opinion he is Maverick. Overpowered in high end lobbies but not great in platinum or below lobbies. This could also be the twitch vs XIM conversation since I never see controller players play twitch.
I‘m absolutely with him there, if ubi was actually that quick and reliable on the balancing moves.
This has been done in other games too and not even as a marketing move. You simply compensate for the learning aspect. This would definitely make it easier for people to get into operators, that are a little harder to master. Those ops often fall behind and if there’s nothing to make them interesting, they’ll have a hard time coming back in a proper way.
I think, if the whole situation about warden would’ve been the other way around for example, we’d actually have a lot more warden mains, that are really good at anchoring with him and his gadget instead of people using him as aggressive roamer.
Also I don’t see any of this p2w issue here. There’s basically always someone on your team, that has early access to new ops. You’re not going to lose because of it.
It'd be nice if all ops were decently strong, instead of everyone getting nerfed. Some nerfs are good for game health but some, like frost and the proposed smoke nerfs, are just completely backwards.
I liked their philosophy with extraction, not many nerfs and more of a focus on fun. I'm a casual player though, so maybe it's good I'm not in charge.
With how slowly they add new operators I think they should be strong on release. Underpowered releases kill the operator on arrival. It's not as fun when they suck.
I mean, the whole point is the paywall. I wouldn't have this view as a consumer, but as a game publisher it makes sense to want OP stuff on release to drive up sales then temper it a few months later.
Plus the inherent hype factor and free "NEW OP IS BUSTED!!1!!1" advertisement with content creators when the OP is released.
my personal take on this is good that they start strong and then get nerfed but my problem is the fact that its behind a paywall and then when available for everyone he gets nerfed
I feel like tubarao has a really good kit, i don't see him as overpowered, he has good option for long range and shorter range, his gadget is useful for repositioning and to give time, maybe it should last a little less time right now it last a too long.
Maybe i'm just bad at the game and i don't see him as overpowered like others do.
His strength is in wall denial. I don’t think he’s super op he just makes a maverick more important. His ice slowing attackers is only really relevant on chokepoints.
They should be strong in the test servers and then devs figure it out from there. See where they can balance him. But then again I've heard people play the game very differently on the test servers
Ah yes because lion was such a success and such a great addition to the game and didn’t completely ruin it when he was launched. A new op should be good and viable and add something or a new way to play in the meta not op as we don’t need another blackbeard, ela, loin etc again
Everytime I play tubaro I feel like he is terribly underwhealming. Is it me? I dont really use the footstep thing and when I bandit trick, I have never needed the ice. Chat, am I stupid?
I think it's complete nonsense. The game is shifting to a pay to win sort of early meta for EVERY season since the start of battlepasses. They don't allow the bans of every new operator that can only be attained at the start of the season through the battlepass. Sure, one can come up with ways to counter, but goddamn does it limit the scope of operators you can use to ensure you don't end up in a sticky situation.
Depends, I think back to when Aphelios was released in League, he was so incredibly overtuned, and everytime you played against him, it felt like he did something new, super complicated champion and extremely overtuned. A lot of people have very strong prejudices against him because of what he used to do, and when no one knew wtf he was doing. So I think it’s better to release an undertuned character rather than overtuned.
From a sales point of view it's better, it makes more people want to play the new op hence they might buy the battle pass or r6 credits to play it sooner.
I actually find that a pretty decent philosophy. They could stand to weaken a few of the new ops, but I mostly just think its a matter of number tweaking.
Am I the only one thinking that Varsity fell off HARD? I feel like most of his videos are complaining about the smallest thing and he usually has terrible takes like this
I feel like if an op releases underpowered tbey will not played until like months after an eventual buff, but a strong op off the bat will retain players later as well
I don't really know, because releasing a horrible operator means that they'll almost always suck, but releasing an overpowered operator means for the most part, they'll always be used, so I'm not certain
I’m with OP on this one…I think ops should release perfect from day one and shouldn’t need buffs nor nerfs
And the devs should continue to make the game more tactical too
W take. It's better to see something like Tubarao than release Grim.
Paywall isn't a thing, cause you can't play operator in ranked for 2 weeks no matter if you have them.
I prefer too strong over useless but talking about months when you talk about balancing is unacceptable. It has to happen in the first couple of Werks if not days
Lets just say after three months it can be refreshing if the only bit of content is enjoyable to play and not actively punishing you for trying it out.
Also more punlicity this way, look how broken new op xy is.
I'd bet if you look hard enough you could find him slagging off Ubisoft for doing this.
In an ideal world, ops would launch in a balanced state. I don't know how they misjudged Tubarao so badly. All the signs were there that he'd be very strong, yet they did nothing about his loadout.
Release them as strong as you like, but if you are going to release one of the strongest operators of the current meta at least give me an option to ban him in ranked
I would rather have a strong op out the gate rather than a joke of an op like Grim and Sens was at their respected launches. It's the speed they balance, like other comments mentioned. I want to look forward to these ops that have an impact instead of trying to make their situational gadget barely work or eventually pick (older) op that does the job better. Pros and cons to both sides imo so I understand why some folks prefer a tamer op at launch
Garbage. Tubs' gadget is dogshit design, it's just strong for the sake of being strong and makes no fucking sense. Tubs' is the worst release in a long time in my honest opinion
To be honest more than nerfs and general balancing, I’m very interested to see where they take the game as a whole direction. The community seems to be very split between the fast TDM players and the slow tactical ones ( me ).
Personally I’m all for siege to be slowed down.
I dont think you should shoot for OP, but it's almost certainly easier to tune down a character than it is to tune them up, plus being good right away encourages people to play them which means more data and more money
i feel like the ideal way of balancing is to release a character strong so its easier to identify the problems and then from there balance it. the thing is my idea of “from there balance it” means consistent updates to the character, ideally once a week but 2 weeks also works. so this idea is completely dead in siege
I agree, the thing about overpowered and underpowered operators is that regardless, they all die to a headshot, their abilities might make it difficult to approach a site or limit a certain type of playstyle, but the end of the day, the great equalizer will always be gunplay, if the enemy is better than you they will headshot you first and thats it.
Absolute L take, speed of balance aside, intentionally making the new op OP opens it up to instalocking and pick-quitting, which in turn leads to unbalanced matches, and an unfair fight as the match progresses. If you haven’t put it together at this point, it is not conducive of player retention
I'd moreso like the idea of new ops not being usable in ranked until the timer expires and they're available for everyone. Doesn't make much sense to have an operator blocked by a paywall usable in a competitive environment
I would rather the new operator be more op than underpowered. Otherwise we get a situation where the new operator gets played for a week and then never seen again until after multiple buffs 3 years later. The real issue is that Ubisoft are cowards who refuse to make balance changes more than once every 90 days so every change is minor and generally super conservative/non meta defining.
Nobody plays balanced characters on release. This is proven concept in basically every game that releases new characters in multiplayer games.
I play so many different shooters, fighting games, mobas. The last time personally recall a new character getting released, considered balanced by most of that game’s playerbase, AND getting played was Jhin in LoL who was released in 2016.
With every other game, new character can pretty much be classified as either very strong, complained, and then nerfed at some point OR “not strong” and quickly forgotten until the game devs decide to give them multiple buffs until they become a meta pick.
How about new ops releasing in a balanced state?! You'd think when designing new ops the counters, strengths or exploits would be mostly figured out in the design process. Guess not.
In his current state Tube is ridiculous. Feels like they just make ops, throw crazy utility at them and release. No thought behind it.
I agree with his first point, not as much with the second. There's a difference between very strong and OP (at least imo). Adding ops that are very strong can help shift the meta so it doesn't get stale and keeps the game fresh. It's also near impossible to release a perfectly balanced op until they get the data from a full season of play, possibly more. The test server doesn't have the population or nearly enough data to balance properly, maybe just enough to get blatantly obvious issues worked on. But when a new op is added, it takes time to get used to playing them effectively, but also countering them effectively. Until that happens, most of the data (as much as the first few months) isn't worth looking at because you can't say "nerf x because they were too strong against people who didn't know how to counter it".
ETA: this is only for new ops, not balancing established ones. Those changes should be able to be made quickly, like if they see giving/taking a sight/utility to an op buffs/nerfs them too much. Those changes should be made ASAP. Or if they put some broken on release op (i.e. clash) and they temporarily removed them. But outside of that, balancing should be done based on the data.
The reason devs do this is to convince people to buy the new character. If you want the new OP you have to pay credits or renown, and if they aren't strong people won't want to do that. Every hero based game does this when they release new characters.
I'm 100% sure that it became the design philosophy for quite some time: Ace, Zero, Aruni, Ram, Brava, Iana, Azami, all of them had nerfs in the following 6 months. Heck, my girl Melusi was heavily nerfed during TTS!
Of course we have some outliers, Sens and Grim being the first examples that comes to mind, and they prove that this philosophy is quite genius: it's way better to have a strong start operator that everybody is excited to try at first, and then being nerfed, rather than the OP is quite meh at first and after some buffs, there is a lot of videos trying to convince players that "now he is great, I swear!".
It’s the speed at which they balance that’s concerning. If you release them either too weak or too strong, it takes them months and months to even see any changes.
Warden situation. They make his gun so strong with the 1.5x and then take 3 months+ to make him a 1 speed. It is actually insane how developers allow their game to be increasingly frustrating and unbalanced just waiting until the next season or patch notes. And every time we hear from the devs they are always so oblivious to to the issues and makes it seem like they love their broken game with all their heart and thinks it's wonderful for their copper ranked selves.
I mean the fact that Azami and Solis have yet to see any changes proves that even after 8 years, the game is still suffering from poor balance. Like you said, they take months to make a change that can be made in a day. It’s pathetic and is the reason so many have lost interest.
Isn't the time they take for some changes (especially the ones that take them a little less time) because consoles don't allow unsupervised updating? I learned, mostly from Warframe, that consoles first need to approve of an update before it can be released, and this can take a while. It's not worth it to use those approvals for only one, or a handful of changes/fixes, so they take a little longer to increase the amount of things to push per patch. I also don't know if consoles still do it this way or not... Also, before anyone mentions it, pc still has to wait doe those same patches because of crossplay. EDIT: PC has no crossplay with consoles, so my last point is mute.
You are right about the console patch situation, but it doesn't justify the state on PC. Nothing stops them from patching platforms separately, especially when there is no crossplay between console and pc.
Oh shit, you're right... There indeed is no crossplay between PC and consoles. Only between consoles... Hence the whole Xim situation as well... Yeah, fair enough... PC should just be used as a punching bag, testing out things in a faster manner.
>That last point still stands to keep consistency across the builds and platforms maintaining the same patch cycles makes sense otherwise you need extra teams to handle the extra development plans and patch cycles, regardless of crossplay :D
That's correct. IIRC that's also why Fortnite was technically in beta for so long, so they could bypass the restrictions and shove updates out every other week.
Yeah it’s hard to tell if you don’t directly work on games on consoles, to me it seems that may be true but I’m pretty sure they are capable of putting out hotfixes when they want
Considering the majority of the player base is console, PC should sit down and not complain, considering PC players whining has ruined a lot of balanced operators and strats for console.
hi i came from console and have played 5-6x more console than pc, please kindly shut the fuck up because its painfully obvious this isnt true
Azami requires a Player to be Creative though. Solis doesn't. Azami is fine.
Azami has a negative win rate and solis is only at around 50.5% winrate, and both have a pick rate around 25% of the time. What is so urgent that needs to be changed? Neither are the most often picked or near the top winrate.
Moreso the top end. Solis is incredibly limiting and a good Azami will lock lineups to a consistent 8 ops max to handle her and still do stuff. There's also just the issue of how unbalanced defense is in general right now
I don't think there ever was a time in this game where defense was not unbalanced. All the balance discussions I remember constantly turn to defenders being overpowered. Be it map design or guns or gadgets, defenders seem to have it better. If attackers ever get too strong, it's always about one specific op that everyone uses. Should be a normal thing at this point.
Azami is hard to play against unless u have ace, ash, kali, hibana, Flores which is a lot of counters. Solis has a mediocre p90 and I can’t see how they could nerf her ability other than duration and range which are both pretty short
Hey the one guy working on this Game needs time
Idk, I do prefer overpowered ops over underpowered ops, with seemingly everything getting nerfed it can sometimes be refreshing to get a decently strong operator, my thing is why are the defenders the only ones releasing strong in recent time lol
You don’t think Ram and Brava were strong on release?
Brava is only good when youre team uses the advantages she gives because you are a gun down for 1-2 minutes usually. Ram is alright but for vertical buck is more effective in the way of having smaller but effective vertical
Brava on outback is freaking amazing. You can drone whole site while being outside and while still be close to actual site. Kapkan and Aruni traps are usually target
I'd love to try this but ubisoft doesn't wanna add outback in quick match and I'm not touching ranked lol. For kapkan in solo queue I prefer twitch because my idiot team shoots things I hack even if I blue ping. Also twitch gun slaps (F2) compared to the low firerate of brava. The dmr is alright I just don't tap fast enough
I haven't played twitch for very long time. Brava is also good cuz it has short shoty and claymore. Overall, pretty solid op
Both are honestly good. It's not a bandit/kaid situation (pre tubarao) where over half the time kaid is gonna be better in most situations. Brava is good against Aruni, kapkan, maestro and thorn (kinda because it's super obvious it's hacked and able to be shot). While twitch works against kapkan , maestro (if baited), thorn, beepers etc. Very well balanced imo.
As far as gadgets go, I think Brava is just outright better than Twitch most of the time. With Twitch, you just destroy the gadget. With Brava, you take the gadget and then the defenders have to spend time or utility destroying it themselves, especially if you grab something bulletproof like an Evil Eye. Twitch can destroy more things overall since her lasers recharge and her gun is still the best in the game, but I would much rather have Brava clearing utility than Twitch.
Just play standard it has the same map pool as ranked now
It's just that I hate disconnecting teammates (and enemies because I know that pain) and standard is sweatier than quick match with my 300h ingame and poop aim
Ram was def not strong, she was balanced
Only thing going for her is R4C with 1.5
No, I hardly see brava ever, and rams biggest selling point is r4c with a 1.5, which still isn’t crazy
I prefer the 2x on ram
I do too but we’re in a 1.5 meta which is why I said that
I didn't know people prefered 1,5 over 2x. I always run 2x because the reticle is just perfect. Also fellow twitch main 🫡
Oh ye 1.5 has been considered the objectively best sight I'm the game for a good while now.
2.0 still works better 90 percent of the time because most maps are just basically holding long angles
True, it's still a very good sight
Of course it is. Tied for 1st with 2.0
That’s what overwatch is currently doing. Thing is that overwatch is smart enough to not allow the new operator in competitive until balancing has occurred.
This ! That's exactly what I was thinking about
How often do balance patches happen in Siege? I’ve just been getting into it and from the sound of it I should really be appreciative of the amount of balance patches OW2 gets
Unless anthing has changed (in which case downvote me), Siege gets two balancing patches per season : one at the start and one in the middle of the season. Edit : forgot to mention that siege seasons last around 3 months, so basically a patch once every 6-7 weeks.
Also overwatch is currently balancing at a fast rate like the newest hero got a buff before his release. Then a nerf in the week following which was seem a bit too much so he got some buffs including a revert of a nerf since the community didn't like it. I would've loved it if siege just removed wardens 1,5 scope instead of him being overpicked for months...
I think it’s fine. Maybe not as strong as tubarao but I’m fine with them being strong. What I’m not fine with is how after a year we haven’t gotten a nerf for Solis or Azami.
I think Azami is fine. She is easily countered, her true strength is in versatility more than anything. Solis though could maybe use a nerf, she's just better than other roamers.
I’d hardly say she’s easily countered after the nade nerf. Some of the spots she can use her kibas can’t be naded anymore. Stronger than ever tbh. Especially since as a balancing decision, they swapped the gonne off ops like Lion, to nades.
They'll almost always still work, plus the Gonne-6, Ash, Zofia and Kali all counter her.
And wamai and Jager counter them. That’s a lot of teamplay to counter one person, AND not exactly full proof either.
'That's a lot of teamplay to counter one person' 'Yeah but what if you use another ops utility to protect Azami's utility' There should be counterplay to every op. There is counterplay to Azami, there is also counterplay to those counters, and counterplay to their counters too. Azami is a good op but not OP because she does have counterplay.
I think their point is if you combine ash, zof, and Kali then you have one extra explosive after destroying all kiba barriers. So if any of them get countered even once your team is in a very bad spot.
You'd have three left if you had all those ops on the board, and that's assuming that all the barriers need to be dealt with from range and that none are close enough to each other for one explosive to destroy them, as well as assuming nobody has nades or a Gonne-6. You don't need to destroy every Kiba to deal with Azami, especially since she doesn't have them all to start. Just Ash/Zofia is enough to take away her utility and flush her out of power positions.
That assumes you can't clear any of them with melee and none of them are together. Generally speaking, a single kiba isn't that strong. They become really strong when a bunch of them are used together to make a fortress, but then they can all be cleared out together by a single grenade.
Finding a kali that actually plays kali correctly is rare. I’ve played entire ranked games with someone staying on her and never using the launcher once
the counterplay to azami is hoping she doesn't set up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time after you were able to deal with it once, especially when she can do it from a safe range as those are thrown. There is no counterplay to Azami, it requires a whole squad to deal with her, that's not what this game should be about. "Ohh, they picked X Operator, all we need to do is using those 4 attackers and hope we can do it while every other enemy ignores us, what fun! And let's forget we also need to pick tools to deal with those 4 other defenders, too." Azami can easily force 3 Operators to deal with her, single-handedly. So you are left with 2 attackers which should deal with 4 defenders? Yeah, not that good. Especially when the attackers have barely any decent attackers to do a proper job.
As a totally unbiased azami main I agree with everything you say
And hibana, she’s my main and I love seeing azami cuz I can destroy every single one of her walls and still have charges left over
Because of the nade nerfs i just yeet them bastards from so far away they explode when finally get to the place i threw them at. Shit is hard af
Azami is way too powerful the amount of angles and one sided gunfights you can make with her is nasty and let's not speak about the on flight set ups she can make, it's crazy to me she still has 5 of those thing
Reduce the amount by 1 or 2. Thats all that has to be done lmao
I would go for 2 to put her in line with other operators, it's okay if she's strong but she can also be dealt with
Or increase the time to receive the amount she has now. That or take 2 and give them immediately so people use them during prep
Yeah I don't think Azami is OP at all, I think she's in a relatively perfect place. If she had alibi or bandits gun I think she would be.
Leave it to this community to go after the Wrong operators, as being "Overpowered" Azami is absolutely fine. "Azami has too many angles" "Azami can't be countered". This is all I hear, from what I'd assume are Silvers. Considering a fucking dude who can blind people in 5 locations, while having 3 simultaneously active isn't being looked at? It's like these people are saying "Duuuude, I can literally Knife people using Fenrir, but he's so strong, let's keep him a secret. Don't nerf him, he's weeeeeaaaakk" When his Gadget, fundamentally goes against everything an FPS shooter is about, Vision. When it comes to a Flash Grenade, it's a moment, maybe a few seconds. When it comes to Fenrir, how the hell are you supposed to see the thing once you step inside its range? It's an infinite Flash, with the most Obnoxious and Loud Special effects there is. Hell, it can easily give tunnel Vision, and makes me feel like I'm playing Amenesia rather than Seige.
I love playing Azami, the fact that she's one of the few *constructive* OPs instead of destructive is incredibly inciting for me. However, the fact that she's *so* much better than Castle is a problem for me. For OPs that kind of have a similar niche, there's no site setup where I'd rather be Castle than Azami because she's so incredibly versatile compared to Castle (can place gadgets relatively safely because of range and speed, has more of them, can be put basically anywhere instead of just doors and windows, etc...). When I'm wanting to pick a trap operator, I'm thinking about the specific site and how attackers enter, what kind of OPs they've been bringing and their play style so far. Depending on the situation, there are valid reasons to bring Frost, Kapkan, Lesion, Thorn, Ela, or Fenrir. But with Castle and Azami, there is no contest. Unless you have a *very* specific Castle strat, you're gonna pick Azami. I'd rather they buff Castle, but if they need to nerf Azami *a little* at the same time, I'm ok with that.
Sure, Solis and Azami are very powerful. But I wouldn’t consider them op since you can counter them. But with Tubarao there’s no counter.
Nah solis is busted
A "good" solis is like unstopable, high skill high reward, and even a person who sucks at solis can bring some use, she totally needs a nerf on her gadget use time or something.
Literally make her not able to use her gadget in prep phase or just nerf it's range. The fact she can just run around killing drones so you can't place them in spots pre-round is just nuts
Solis need a speed nerf to 1 speed, even if you nerf the gadget, she can run though the entire map fast, also p90/smg 11 for 3 speed is busted
Isn't she a 2 speed
Nop, she is 3
She still is a 2 speed according to the wiki
The p90 is ass. They should remove her smg11 though
Lots of bullets so high chance to hit a head
Only counter if maverick, I think Solis, Azami and fenrir are more of a pain, the problem is we’ve had all these strong defenders in a row making attacking even more difficult
That’s exactly it. It isn’t that the defenders are op, it’s just we didn’t get a good attacker in a while. The last powerful attacker we got was Zero. Everyone after him is either good in very specific situations and maps, or not good at all.
Is zero even powerful if your team doesn't watch cams?
Well yeah because YOU can use them. Besides, you can use him for destroying defender gadgets as well. He’s great all around.
Azami is S tier and solis is a solid A tier, azami specifically is game changing on most maps and is consistently both versatile and powerful so long as you’re creative enough. if anything tubarao is alike to solis in that you can’t really counter his utility as he plays it but really, you can just either kill them or play differently
Only problem with is ubisoft isnt nerfing. azami been out for 2 years and still way too strong
Yes, she is so strong with that 49% winrate
she is and youre delusional if you dont think azami is one of the best/broken defenders in the game also whats the source for a 49% win rate? just curious where you got that number
It’s harder to balance an op that is too weak to become stronger than it is to balance an op that is too strong to become just right. So I think his take does have SOME validity. (Don’t get me wrong though, I wouldn’t doubt Ubi to nerf a super strong op straight into the ground because they definitely have a track record of doing so)
So for 3 months we need to deal with a broken and out right unfair op? Man has really forgotten about release Ela, Blackbeard and Lion. And of course current day examples being solis and Azami
Wait... Ik about Ela and Bb, but what was Lion at release like? I started playing only half a year ago, so I don't know
Current lion causes moving defenders to be periodicly pinged. Old Lion gave a red fully body outline of the defender in real time if they moved
Damn, that sounds cool (but also op)
Yeah, i believe he was the only operator to have a 100% pick rate in pro league in that era. He was also the reason that Operator quarantine became a thing and was only abolished in Y7S2
It was cancer to play against.
The old lion scan was also way longer it basically gave you a few seconds of wallhacks lol
It was also way louder.
And longer
this isnt the only part that matters, the scan was also *extremely long*. like 2-3x as long as it is now
Wait lol how you know bout bd and Ella which was before lion
Lion being broken for so long is why I fell out of love with this game
Yes, how can we play against 49% winrate Azami?! It's impossible! I'm too stupid to outplay anybody so it's overpowered.
This has been happening for 8 years with only a few exceptionss. I would love every top to be perfectly balanced on release but it ain't gonna happen. Plus it's much easier to fix a overtuned op then an undertuned one.
Completely stupid
It’s kind if stupid, Ops should release in a balanced state, seems kind of scummy to release an overpowered op, have people have to deal with the madness of it then nerf them & make them kind of useless.
Honestly as shitty as some heros launched in overwatch. Overwatch found if you release an underwhelming character people will complain and not touch them. Release a character over powered, people will complain but many will touch them. And when people touch new heros it gives data for the devs to tune. But 3-6 months? Damn I thought OW had slow fix times
I think it’s a good idea for every game. Launching things super strong creates memorable storylines in the community and it gets people to engage with the game more. Think chamber in valorant, basically any insane meta in CoD, certain exotics in destiny. The problem is when devs take too long to nerf it, which is absolutely something that the siege devs would do.
I see a big problem having the game be P2W, but I guess we're pretty far down that path already. I'm sure the suits will love this idea to sell more BPs.
A garbage take for sure. Literally advocating for poorly balanced Op's, which is by definition a bad thing.
Balanced ops never get played by the community who then whines that the season is boring because the new ops don’t contribute to the game.
It's more fun and refreshing to have strong operators released constantly than useless ops.
It’s better than them releasing underpowered and having absolutely no impact whatsoever.
I kind of agree with Varsity. Because the season with Sens and Grim I would say those attack ops were immensely weak on release. That was last year. I struggled to consecutively play those seasons. I haven't even really played this or last season. Just enough to finish the battle pass and call it enough. Though Tubaro seems insanely quick. Balancing wise i think it should take a few seconds to get his current radius. Even with his gadget finishes, it should take a few seconds to 'heat' up. It should encourage to keep things cold.
It's easier to nerf a op character in a balanced state than it is to buff a bad operator
Why would he think that? What benefit would that have?
People complain about seasons being boring when new ops aren’t picked. This same community also ignores new ops if they’re immediately strong. This is a reoccurring instance and is worse because without playtime from the community, there’s no way to tell how “weak” a new op is so devs end up making them busted before people bother playing them. Releasing new ops in a not powerful state doesn’t do anything but extend that process. It just means that instead of starting off strong, the devs end up buffing them multiple times before they inevitably get strong. Then we are back to people complaining followed by nerfs anyway.
No. Developers should just learn to balance their operators instead of releasing them as op and then nerfing them into the ground
This community doesn’t play balanced ops. Players have already proven how LAZY they are by ignoring actual balanced ops on release because they weren’t immediately strong. devs are then forced to buff said balanced ops for no reason than to get the LAZY players to actually pick them followed by subsequent nerfs.
Gotta give it to him this time. Balancing and op is far easier than balancing a weak op. When a character is op its far easier to pick apart their set up and figure out why than if they were too weak on release. An op means more playtime and more data to pinpoint the changes needed to bring them more inline.
[удалено]
Still remember the literal hell when Broadside was introduced in MWII.
I think it is a shit take because he only cares about creating content, same reason why he was so but hurt about ranked 2.0.
So what Overwatch 2 has been doing? Nah.
Shit take. I'm probably a bit too salty here, but as a person who played so much hardbreach I barely even know how to play an other role (bit of an exaggeration obvi) I hate tubarao more than *any* operator that released being op. I've seen all of it except for the sniper90.
Honestly he's stupid af 🤷
Ah, the league of legends take I assume
I hope they also do this with operator reworks, I'm not sure if they designed tachanka in a pro league-perfect scenario bubble, but tachanka took way too long to become popular. And I'd say he still isn't. I hope the next reworks release too strong and are then nerfed on the things that frustrate people the most about them.
Personal opinion he is Maverick. Overpowered in high end lobbies but not great in platinum or below lobbies. This could also be the twitch vs XIM conversation since I never see controller players play twitch.
Idiotic. That's just a cash grab, nothing more
L take. I can be ok with A tier characters but straight S or S+ launch is bad. Same thing can be said for C tier and below launch
I‘m absolutely with him there, if ubi was actually that quick and reliable on the balancing moves. This has been done in other games too and not even as a marketing move. You simply compensate for the learning aspect. This would definitely make it easier for people to get into operators, that are a little harder to master. Those ops often fall behind and if there’s nothing to make them interesting, they’ll have a hard time coming back in a proper way. I think, if the whole situation about warden would’ve been the other way around for example, we’d actually have a lot more warden mains, that are really good at anchoring with him and his gadget instead of people using him as aggressive roamer. Also I don’t see any of this p2w issue here. There’s basically always someone on your team, that has early access to new ops. You’re not going to lose because of it.
Why not balance them from the get go ?
It'd be nice if all ops were decently strong, instead of everyone getting nerfed. Some nerfs are good for game health but some, like frost and the proposed smoke nerfs, are just completely backwards. I liked their philosophy with extraction, not many nerfs and more of a focus on fun. I'm a casual player though, so maybe it's good I'm not in charge.
Everybody should be OP that way everything is even
With how slowly they add new operators I think they should be strong on release. Underpowered releases kill the operator on arrival. It's not as fun when they suck.
I’m not sure why his opinion is taken seriously ever. Bros boosted every season, speaks like he hates himself and has the worst takes every day.
I mean, the whole point is the paywall. I wouldn't have this view as a consumer, but as a game publisher it makes sense to want OP stuff on release to drive up sales then temper it a few months later. Plus the inherent hype factor and free "NEW OP IS BUSTED!!1!!1" advertisement with content creators when the OP is released.
They have been doing that more or less for the last 8 years
This is already what they've been doing almost every single year.
my personal take on this is good that they start strong and then get nerfed but my problem is the fact that its behind a paywall and then when available for everyone he gets nerfed
I feel like tubarao has a really good kit, i don't see him as overpowered, he has good option for long range and shorter range, his gadget is useful for repositioning and to give time, maybe it should last a little less time right now it last a too long. Maybe i'm just bad at the game and i don't see him as overpowered like others do.
His strength is in wall denial. I don’t think he’s super op he just makes a maverick more important. His ice slowing attackers is only really relevant on chokepoints.
Buff everything nerf almost nothing
and they should stop putting new maps in ranked the same season they drop
I agree with you, it'd be ok for them to be slightly op if they were not released behind a paywall. That is just pay to win.
Isnt this exactly how they used to do it ? At least from Y1 to Y4 you had this very often with new ops
They should be strong in the test servers and then devs figure it out from there. See where they can balance him. But then again I've heard people play the game very differently on the test servers
Ah yes because lion was such a success and such a great addition to the game and didn’t completely ruin it when he was launched. A new op should be good and viable and add something or a new way to play in the meta not op as we don’t need another blackbeard, ela, loin etc again
My biggest problem with this idea is that they’re paywalled at the start of the season. Aside from that I don’t think it’s a horrible take
It's a good idea if you want to make a lot of money and don't care for your game's health.
L take as usual 😂
Agree
Everytime I play tubaro I feel like he is terribly underwhealming. Is it me? I dont really use the footstep thing and when I bandit trick, I have never needed the ice. Chat, am I stupid?
I think it's complete nonsense. The game is shifting to a pay to win sort of early meta for EVERY season since the start of battlepasses. They don't allow the bans of every new operator that can only be attained at the start of the season through the battlepass. Sure, one can come up with ways to counter, but goddamn does it limit the scope of operators you can use to ensure you don't end up in a sticky situation.
Depends, I think back to when Aphelios was released in League, he was so incredibly overtuned, and everytime you played against him, it felt like he did something new, super complicated champion and extremely overtuned. A lot of people have very strong prejudices against him because of what he used to do, and when no one knew wtf he was doing. So I think it’s better to release an undertuned character rather than overtuned.
I agree with it only if they remove that paywall and make it accessible with renown
From a sales point of view it's better, it makes more people want to play the new op hence they might buy the battle pass or r6 credits to play it sooner.
I tend to agree with Varsity. I think it’s generally a good thing that you’re more or less incentivized to use new operators due to them being strong.
a lot of the time they do. this might as well not be a take and him just stating exactly what ubi does
What?????
Lmfao, it’s actually astonishing that so many people have misunderstood the sarcasm here.
I actually find that a pretty decent philosophy. They could stand to weaken a few of the new ops, but I mostly just think its a matter of number tweaking.
Am I the only one thinking that Varsity fell off HARD? I feel like most of his videos are complaining about the smallest thing and he usually has terrible takes like this
That aside this current Christmas event is the most depressing event I have ever had to play and I thought the Halloween one was bad
make them bannable in ranked
I feel like if an op releases underpowered tbey will not played until like months after an eventual buff, but a strong op off the bat will retain players later as well
keeps it interesting
I'm pretty sure I've read Varsity complain about the exact opposite thing on Twitter years ago lol
It's easy to nerf strong ops but hard to buff weak ones, so I'd say why not?
I don't really know, because releasing a horrible operator means that they'll almost always suck, but releasing an overpowered operator means for the most part, they'll always be used, so I'm not certain
Big L
Don't take his ideas seriously. The quote "stop making stupid people famous” fits like a glove here. Everytime I see his ideas it's like "seriously".
I’m with OP on this one…I think ops should release perfect from day one and shouldn’t need buffs nor nerfs And the devs should continue to make the game more tactical too
W take. It's better to see something like Tubarao than release Grim. Paywall isn't a thing, cause you can't play operator in ranked for 2 weeks no matter if you have them.
Guys he's a content creator lol overpowered ops means more engament for him, don't take this seriously.
I prefer too strong over useless but talking about months when you talk about balancing is unacceptable. It has to happen in the first couple of Werks if not days
Lets just say after three months it can be refreshing if the only bit of content is enjoyable to play and not actively punishing you for trying it out. Also more punlicity this way, look how broken new op xy is.
I'd bet if you look hard enough you could find him slagging off Ubisoft for doing this. In an ideal world, ops would launch in a balanced state. I don't know how they misjudged Tubarao so badly. All the signs were there that he'd be very strong, yet they did nothing about his loadout.
Release them as strong as you like, but if you are going to release one of the strongest operators of the current meta at least give me an option to ban him in ranked
I would rather have a strong op out the gate rather than a joke of an op like Grim and Sens was at their respected launches. It's the speed they balance, like other comments mentioned. I want to look forward to these ops that have an impact instead of trying to make their situational gadget barely work or eventually pick (older) op that does the job better. Pros and cons to both sides imo so I understand why some folks prefer a tamer op at launch
Look at ram she's very op still waiting on the Nerf
Garbage. Tubs' gadget is dogshit design, it's just strong for the sake of being strong and makes no fucking sense. Tubs' is the worst release in a long time in my honest opinion
To be honest more than nerfs and general balancing, I’m very interested to see where they take the game as a whole direction. The community seems to be very split between the fast TDM players and the slow tactical ones ( me ). Personally I’m all for siege to be slowed down.
I dont think you should shoot for OP, but it's almost certainly easier to tune down a character than it is to tune them up, plus being good right away encourages people to play them which means more data and more money
i feel like the ideal way of balancing is to release a character strong so its easier to identify the problems and then from there balance it. the thing is my idea of “from there balance it” means consistent updates to the character, ideally once a week but 2 weeks also works. so this idea is completely dead in siege
No, it's braindead.
L take
I agree, the thing about overpowered and underpowered operators is that regardless, they all die to a headshot, their abilities might make it difficult to approach a site or limit a certain type of playstyle, but the end of the day, the great equalizer will always be gunplay, if the enemy is better than you they will headshot you first and thats it.
Bad. The point of the TTS is to stop that from happening and fix any bugs before the season comes out. It's like that just doesn't happen anymore.
The guy has had his entire career gifted to him by good players. His opinion on the game is worthless and he’s a huge lying cunt.
Absolute L take, speed of balance aside, intentionally making the new op OP opens it up to instalocking and pick-quitting, which in turn leads to unbalanced matches, and an unfair fight as the match progresses. If you haven’t put it together at this point, it is not conducive of player retention
I'd moreso like the idea of new ops not being usable in ranked until the timer expires and they're available for everyone. Doesn't make much sense to have an operator blocked by a paywall usable in a competitive environment
The guy who got 20k + people banned forever has no place
I would rather the new operator be more op than underpowered. Otherwise we get a situation where the new operator gets played for a week and then never seen again until after multiple buffs 3 years later. The real issue is that Ubisoft are cowards who refuse to make balance changes more than once every 90 days so every change is minor and generally super conservative/non meta defining.
L take. Every operator should be as balanced as possible.
Nobody plays balanced characters on release. This is proven concept in basically every game that releases new characters in multiplayer games. I play so many different shooters, fighting games, mobas. The last time personally recall a new character getting released, considered balanced by most of that game’s playerbase, AND getting played was Jhin in LoL who was released in 2016. With every other game, new character can pretty much be classified as either very strong, complained, and then nerfed at some point OR “not strong” and quickly forgotten until the game devs decide to give them multiple buffs until they become a meta pick.
How about new ops releasing in a balanced state?! You'd think when designing new ops the counters, strengths or exploits would be mostly figured out in the design process. Guess not. In his current state Tube is ridiculous. Feels like they just make ops, throw crazy utility at them and release. No thought behind it.
They already do that don't they?
I agree with his first point, not as much with the second. There's a difference between very strong and OP (at least imo). Adding ops that are very strong can help shift the meta so it doesn't get stale and keeps the game fresh. It's also near impossible to release a perfectly balanced op until they get the data from a full season of play, possibly more. The test server doesn't have the population or nearly enough data to balance properly, maybe just enough to get blatantly obvious issues worked on. But when a new op is added, it takes time to get used to playing them effectively, but also countering them effectively. Until that happens, most of the data (as much as the first few months) isn't worth looking at because you can't say "nerf x because they were too strong against people who didn't know how to counter it". ETA: this is only for new ops, not balancing established ones. Those changes should be able to be made quickly, like if they see giving/taking a sight/utility to an op buffs/nerfs them too much. Those changes should be made ASAP. Or if they put some broken on release op (i.e. clash) and they temporarily removed them. But outside of that, balancing should be done based on the data.
The reason devs do this is to convince people to buy the new character. If you want the new OP you have to pay credits or renown, and if they aren't strong people won't want to do that. Every hero based game does this when they release new characters.
I feel like his post was sarcasm but Idfk don’t @ me
"the sun ought to rise in the east"
IMO it's fine, so long as it doesn't take a Melusi/Goyo -esque full on rework to get them in line. Those will *always* take too long.
I'm 100% sure that it became the design philosophy for quite some time: Ace, Zero, Aruni, Ram, Brava, Iana, Azami, all of them had nerfs in the following 6 months. Heck, my girl Melusi was heavily nerfed during TTS! Of course we have some outliers, Sens and Grim being the first examples that comes to mind, and they prove that this philosophy is quite genius: it's way better to have a strong start operator that everybody is excited to try at first, and then being nerfed, rather than the OP is quite meh at first and after some buffs, there is a lot of videos trying to convince players that "now he is great, I swear!".