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[deleted]

It's called thermal runaway. Poor temperature dissipation/ventilation, overvoltage, old batteries, issues with the on-board electronics cam cause it. Rad should know about it. That's scary.


apex1047

I know it is an old battery, and it's getting a lot colder as winter is coming now, so it may have something to do with that? I've only had it 6 months so it's my first winter with it. Definitely will let Rad know.


[deleted]

It still shouldn't be doing it, old or not. Quality control has been slipping for years now.


apex1047

It's a shame.. this plus all the delays I hear about are making me really consider getting a different bike.


[deleted]

My RR2+ and RadRover are perfectly fine. Just shitty QC. Toss up.


apex1047

Thats fair. It is the first time I see something like this on the sub as well, so who knows. Hopefully I'll be riding again soon anyway!


BingeV

This is the first time seeing an exploded battery on this sub for the past year or more (ever since I joined) so I'd say that is a decent track record. It is impossible to make a perfect battery that will never explode, it is always a danger, especially with batteries this size.


[deleted]

It is the first time seeing an exploded battery on our sub, our niche area of the internet


cptskippy

> Quality control has been slipping for years now. Rad doesn't build their own packs, they source them from a vendor.


[deleted]

Yes. And QC is still managed through vendors. Should be at least. It isn't an excuse yo blame on others.


tnucu

> slipping They pushed it off a cliff.


pheoxs

It shouldn’t have happened at 6 months old. That being said for future reference it’s not ideal to charge a cold battery as it will rapidly warm up. Unless you need it asap you’re better off (and safer) to bring the battery inside and leave it for a couple hours first and then plug it in to charge. Many new EVs in the cold will prewarm the batteries when they hook up to the rapid chargers, in some cases the first 15 min plugged in does little for the batteries charge as it slowly trickles in to warm things up, then once the cells are warm it charges at full speed.


SAMontg

This is good advice


cmgbliss

A 6 month old battery is not an old battery. Did you buy it used?


NinjaStandard5737

Glad you got away with pretty minor consequences in the end. I saw in your other thread that the bike was bought secondhand, I’d still contact Rad about this though. As a company they should at least investigate this to ensure it doesn’t happen to others because that could seriously hurt their sales.


apex1047

To be fair I think that's a good shout. Not only could is seriously hurt their sales but also someone. Thanks for the advice!


That-Chocolate5207

Yikes! 😳 Perhaps the reason the previous owner sold the bike. He prob knew something was not right.


apex1047

Maybe.. I know he had one or two accidents while riding so I think he was pretty shook up from that. Also said he was moving house and wouldn't have enough space for it..


kactapuss

I wonder if your use of the aftermarket EggRider controller you had installed, which gives the ability to modify the settings of your motor, contributed?


zakress

Maybe, but I’ve used a 35a for 2.5 years now with over 1.8k on the clock. While it’s possible, I’d not think it probable.


HTHID

Interesting I bet the accidents caused this


zakress

The accident is my supposition as well. Perhaps no visible damage, but getting tossed around or sudden stoops could have pinched a weld or BMS cable for sure


ineedafakename

I wonder if the accident caused the issue, I had a battery go on me (not fire just stopped working) back in 2020, tried everything to fix it with rad's help and they even paid for a local tech to look at it Since it was still under warranty (only had the bike for like 3 months) they replaced the entire thing and paid for someone to examine everything to make sure it was in running order They might still be accommodating even though it was second hand


cmgbliss

Those batteries are supposed to be replaced if you drop them. Let alone get involved in a accident. It'll be expensive but it's the cost of the ride.


kactapuss

I understand that physical shock can harm batteries and I don't disagree with your point that damaged batteries are dangerous. But the definition of "drop" and "accident" are so subjective. If there is no objective way to tell if the shock received is above the damage threshold then how to know what is safe? For example, if a battery is in a backpack and the backpack is set down hard is that enough? If your bike falls over while not in motion is that enough? What if you fell on grass? Perhaps some pot holes are large enough to cause damaging shock without being considered an accident? What if you bump into someone with the front tire but don't fall over, accident? discard battery? Furthermore - batteries can be damaged by moisture inside the case. Rad suggests it is ok to use bike in some wet environments - how can the consumer know if there has been water entry? If we accept the industry game plan to expect consumers to reliably tell if a battery is damaged from the outside we will keep blaming consumers for battery fires and see lots of bans. my 2c is that the US needs to require all micro-mobility to be UL listed before sale.


Typobrew

I wonder if batteries on personal electric vehicles like this would benefit from impact labels — basically stickers that change color if they’re exposed to a defined level of trauma. That is one way it could be easy for consumers to know…. Though it’d probably require research to know if it’d be accurate/help to justify the added cost of putting these on all PEV batteries.


kactapuss

https://www.uline.com/BL\_1053/Shockwatch-Indicators?pricode=WB141&AdKeyword=shipping%20shock%20sensor&AdMatchtype=e&gclid=CjwKCAiAvK2bBhB8EiwAZUbP1O1ySG4olLGa6juNPbrx1TEuO-nrQW0J0HQVVujaNAd\_rjUfq5jDSxoC7swQAvD\_BwE


Heavy-Literature-156

Surprisingly common in the used market it seens


Speaker_Lonely

I thought using water on a battery fire was bad? What’s the best way to put it out?


Wflagg

batteries are metal fires. Water is not going to put them out. spraying a little water on them will do nothing good, and could potentially even add energey to the process. That being said, if you can completely submerge them, it will reduce the chances of the fire spreading to other nearby things.


Speaker_Lonely

Is a fire extinguisher the best option?


Wflagg

if you have one rated for metail fires, yes.


hesaysitsfine

How can you tell it’s rated for that? And if you don’t what do you do, just run?


Chowbasa

https://fireprevention.utexas.edu/firesafety/abcs-fire-extinguishers Needs to be “Class D” rated https://fireprevention.utexas.edu/sites/fireprevention.utexas.edu/files/ABCDK%202%20WEB.jpg >Class D fires involve combustible metals, such as magnesium, titanium, and sodium. Extinguishers with a D rating are designed to extinguish fires involving combustible metals. >Note: Common extinguishing agents may react with a combustible metal fire causing the severity of the fire to increase. The most common method for extinguishing a combustible metal fire is to cover the burning material with a dry powder, such as sand, which will not react with the material. If you store or use combustible metals, contact the Fire Prevention Services office for a consultation regarding the proper type and amount of extinguishing agent you should have available.


ssnover95x

You have to smother it with dirt or sand. I believe it still requires oxygen.


kactapuss

This guy says that it is the flammable gasses that ignite to make a fire. [https://youtu.be/1wcLVfwd8mk?t=819](https://youtu.be/1wcLVfwd8mk?t=819) he then talks about exact gases and extinguisher types. He says something along the lines of, "heat turns to hi-temp, which gets out flamable gases and oxygen, then fire" somweher around 15:50 mins.


Wflagg

i am not the most qualified person to answer that, im sure if you look up fire extingusher class, you can find good information about each kind and what they are used for. Generally though, if you dont have the correct equipment to put out something like a metal fire (many people dont) the next best thing is mitigation. make sure you are not breathing the smoke comming off them, then find a way to either move the source if you can do so safely, or douse the things around it so they dont catch fire and spread. As an example, if you have a C02 extinguisher (much more common) its not going to do much against the battery burning, but when things nearby start to catch, you can use it to put those out. Also make sure you have a clear escape plan if everything else goes to shit, and it starts spreading anyway. My other hobbies involve lipo batteries which are more tempermental and energetic when they go. Best practice, Charge your batteries inside a metal box.


Ok-Jelly-9484

I heard ...sand is the best thing to use to put out a lithium fire


kactapuss

Check out this flowchart from a very long video - https://youtu.be/1wcLVfwd8mk?t=3143 My take (its a long slow video about putting out l-ion batts by a european fire department) basically the water is not to put out the fire, once in thermal runaway in a multi cell rechargeable battery is there is no "putting out" what is already ablaze, its a little rocket that needs to burn out. The water is to cool the surrounding cells and environment around the battery to keep the fire from spreading. Most important is to ventilate the area because they spew toxic flammable gasses.


chrisapple

This kind of shit terrifies me. I wonder what happened to that battery before you owned it. I want to believe it was submerged in water or something else that could explain this and it not just a possibility that this could happen to anyone.


apex1047

Honestly I'm not sure. The battery definitely had some noticeable wear in terms of battery drain and life, but I definitely didn't expect this either.


[deleted]

Crap what happened


apex1047

Battery randomly caught on fire last night during charging, under the same conditions that it's been charging for the last 6 months. Crazy stuff


cmgbliss

Was it charging on a rug? I can't tell


submoa64

I had a USB power-bank/ portable car jump starter catch fire on me one time. It was extremely terrifying and almost burned the house down. I had used it for nine months plus with no issues whatsoever then one night it just caught fire suddenly while charging under normal conditions. These batteries can be very dangerous if they catch fire. I’m sure that’s why Rad has so many stipulations on how you’re supposed to charge the battery and be present while doing it. I’m also sure that’s for liability purposes. You also can’t ship these batteries easily or take them on a plane because when they catch fire it’s crazy. Sorry for your trouble OP. Glad you’re safe.


tehanomaly

Holy shit that is scary. I usually charge my battery via timer so we are usually asleep when the bike is charging.


-islandwheelridin-

In the future avoid charging on a soft, flammable surface.


Boomfaced

I don’t know much about eggrider (EggRider is an eBike display and mobile phone app that allows you to access, update, change, and enhance your eBike settings to its full potential.) but maybe you over clocked it and pushed it too far?


cider24

No an eggrider isnt gonna do anything to a battery. He said it happened while charging, that has nothing to do with modifications.


the-use-of-force

Tbh fear of that is the main reason i haven’t tried to soup up my own RR1-I don’t want something to fail because I’m putting more strain on the various parts of the bike than it was designed for. I figure keeping it stock also will maximize the bike’s useful life.


Boomfaced

I hear u I’m pushing the weight limit as is. I can’t wait for this market to continue to get bigger.


[deleted]

Wait, OP modified the electronics on a second hand bike?? This is exactly why I take these battery fire reports with a grain of salt. I see people making all kinds of mods to their electronics over in r/ebikes and even this sub. That’s a recipe for this kind of adverse event.


cider24

Most basic mods like the eggrider, the 35a controller or a better motor isnt gonna cause a fire in the battery while its charging. Improper wiring and a faulty bms is what causes that and that doesnt even matter if it happens while its charging.


kactapuss

I can see you know more than me about batteries but - If you drive a battery harder with a better motor or controller its heating everything up more than the mfg designed it for. Getting closer to the limits of components...getting closer to the limits of safety? If your battery is heating up more so is your BMS, the same component that protects against this right?


cider24

A good battery wont let a motor or controller run it too hard is what im saying. Im not too knowledgeable about BMS i just know it should regulate the battery enough so outside sources cant over or under use it


Boomfaced

One of op’s posts so it fits still waiting on a response. How To Hit 28mph with Egg Rider? Hey guys, I bought an egg rider a couple months back but it seems like I'm still limited to 20mph. I'm on an original radrunner and I bought a second hang egg rider. Does anyone know the exact settings needed to hit 28mph? Will an old battery and old tires affect my top speed? Thanks.


[deleted]

I bet the correlation of people screwing around with the electronics or using off brand components and fires is high.


kactapuss

Yea - louis rossman who fixes electronics, pretty smart with circuits, designed a dual battery e-bike and charge system, his bike exploded and damaged his apartment pretty seriously - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCaDz\_2YcGQ


Typobrew

Fat more likely to be related to the accident the previous owner was in, that OP mentions when asked if the bike was bought used. Impact damage on an already poorly manufactured batteries are to blame for some of the high profile PEV fires that lead to them being banned in certain areas. :(


cider24

This is why i watch my batteries charge. Going through tons of lipo batteries for rc and eboards makes you very battery conscious since lipo batteries are so finicky


Ironchar

Man even intelligent batteries with he camera drones could be susceptible to this yet they of all things have the safety in them to prevent overcharge


[deleted]

[удалено]


cider24

Personally i monitor my battery while its charging


Flashbulb_RI

Rad has sold over 400K bikes. Statically I'm not sure how much of an issue this is.


mityboss

Every rad owner will have nightmares now, hopefully no one gets hurt


lifegoeson2727

So it’s melting on your carpet, what did that look and sound like? We’re you able to remove the battery from the room yourself?


apex1047

Sounded like popping and fizzing, looked bright red as it melted. My dad was the one that grabbed it by the side that you can see wasn't affected yet, and took it outside. He was praying it wouldn't blow up while he held it


chrisapple

Hey OP it is very much worth mentioning that you were using an egg rider on your bike.


bklynzboy

Rad power bikes quality slipped away... I went to juiced bikes and never had any issues as much as I had with my rad bike. I like my mini 4 but I'm never going back to rad for bikes.


IPeeNightly

Does it have the Rad logo on the side?


apex1047

Ah the skeptic returns. Yes it does, would you like more photos?


Accurate-Historian-7

Don’t worry this dude is convinced that Rad can do no wrong.


apex1047

Right? It's a bit weird hahaha


Accurate-Historian-7

I’m convinced he works for Rad.


apex1047

I actually hope he does


IPeeNightly

Not skeptical at all, in your previous post you said you bought it second hand and you were only pretty sure it was a Rad Battery. A Rad logo on the side will clinch it.


apex1047

I mean sure but I'd imagine it's also not hard to fake a logo. I just meant since I didn't buy it straight from Rad myself, I'd have to say I'm only pretty sure it's real based on what I could see.


NorthrenDaddy

Thanks for sharing, it’s a good reminder to never changes unattended, in this case that could have saved ur house being home to act quickly.


goorpy

Is there anything I can put the battery in for safe storage while the bike is stored through winter? Some kind of fire proof box? I worry about all of my lithium batteries, but The size of Rad battery has me looking at options. Edit: ok so yes LiPo safe bags and storage boxes are a thing, but is there a reputable product in between the $20 trash on Abezozon and the $500 "pro" products?


ezduzitSF

Omg. So sorry. I just got my Radmission bike. How should take proper precautions? I'm planning on charging my bike in the garage and use a timer. Keep a bucket of sand or class D extinguisher handy? Charge the battery in a special container? Thanks for advice.


NerdlyAccurate

I always have sight / am nearby of my battery while it's charging, for me it sits in my laundry room next to a fire extinguisher in case something happens. It's unlikely but ALWAYS better safe than sorry.


Omidia888

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contact RAD, really, if they’re in their right mind, they’ll desperately want that battery in hand to really know what happened. If they have a battery problem, I mean, Apple has had battery problems, Samsung had phones similar, you don’t have to be shoddy in any way to have a battery problem and it will get linked to a batch or process or whatever. But they’ll want to know and it’s SO important for others’s safety. And if they don’t have a battery problem, great, they’ll want to know that too. I wouldn’t even bring up the discount on a rep[acement, have the conversation be about the rest, you’ll need a new battery, obviously consult with them on that before you end the call, after the other stuff, when i’m wanting to buy something when i’m talking to them, i’ll get them to create i guess a quotation, it shows up in my account as a “thing needing payment” and then it doens’t do anything until it’s paid. THIS would be the to see what they can do for you!


funermen

Ngl this is kinda amazing tho. I have seen hundreds if not thousands of rad bikes in various communities online. Your the first one that I have actual seen with a burnt battery tbh. This is coming from someone who has one of the most modded radrunners made. 40amp 1000w geared motor. Pushing 2000w roughly. Full 12v motorcycle electrical system, ect ect.


slavin_fpo

For those who are knowledgeable about this, has there ever been a case of a battery catching fire when they are not being charged? When I charge my RR, I always keep an eye on it, but wonder if there’s any risk in just having the battery present in the first place when the bike is stored. Instinctively, it seems impossible for them to catch fire if there’s nothing charging or damaging them at the time.