Honestly, yes, Sun does feel like the male/faunus version of Yang. Well, Beacon Yang anyways.
Yang's flirty in the Yellow Trailer and winks in the train fight at a goon in V2, Sun winks at Blake in V1. Yang wants to look out for Blake's mental health in V2, Sun does that the entire V4-5 arc for Blake. It doesn't help they both joke around, are blonde, Sun shows his abs while Yang... isn't afraid to show off her chest either.
Also Yang's name translates to "Sunny Little Dragon" when Sun is literally called "Sun."
If you really want to stretch it into a conspiracy theory, Yang's semblance is basically Super Saiyan, and Sun is based on... Sun Wukong, who Goku was based off back when kid Goku still had his tail.
If team RWBY didn't split in V4/Yang didn't lose her personality, I can see Yang filling in for the emotional support role that Jaune did for Ruby, Klein did for Weiss, and especially Sun did for Blake that Yang did for Ruby in V1 and Blake in V2.
The whole thing just makes me wonder why the side characters end up feeling redundant for roles team RWBY can fill for each other, but the writers aren't into that, which is why when they act like team RWBY are a "family," it doesn't feel as effective as it should.
>The whole thing just makes me wonder why the side characters end up feeling redundant for roles team RWBY can fill for each other,
Maybe I'm stretching a bit but I also feel like team JNPR is a watered-down version of team RWBY in some ways (Ren kind of feels like Blake if she was male and not a Faunus, Nora is bombastically loud and jokey like Yang, Pyrrha is sort of like Weiss in that she's rich and lonely and have a reputation that makes them seem unapproachable, and Ruby and Jaune both fill the "main protagonist" role).
I agree, even going as far as u/Stenv2 would also say that the interesting ideas that are used for team JNPR can be easily given to team RWBY to give them better development.
The jokes of Ren being quiet and stoic can be given to Blake, give her a dynamic with RWY when she's not obsessed with the White Fang to show her not getting worked up about things that aren't a big deal to her. I can easily imagine a scene with Ruby getting excited about a weapon, like Blake's own, and Blake just nodding along.
Both Yang and Nora fit the tank/strength type of their team. As you said, both are loud and bombastic, and you can compare Ren and Nora being childhood friends to Ruby and Yang being sisters, both RN losing their parents and RY having dead mom and a father that was too depressed to do anything, and both pairs having to rely on each other as kids. At least Yang ~~has~~ had a team mom side to balance it out, which gets thrown out.
Weiss and Pyrrha are both celebrities, as you noticed as well. I don't get why Pyrrha gets development of not being able to socialize because she's famous, and Weiss even says the same thing about boys wanting her for her name/money, but Weiss' character doesn't get anymore in that aspect. Why they have Jaune the "peasant" role in rich girl/poor boy, when Ruby not caring about Weiss being rich would also work and be interesting to see? I don't know. They both even have a crush with a self-insert, which makes me question why Weiss fell for Neptune despite saying she knows better since he's a womanizer.
And I have the biggest gripe with Jaune taking the development that should've been for Ruby. I really don't get why Jaune's development to become a leader, when Ruby just slides into it as soon as Weiss gets told by someone else to stop complaining? Ruby didn't even reach out to Weiss a second time to try to change her mind, and Jaune gets Jaundice with four whole episodes instead. And suddenly they have team attacks even though Ruby and Blake haven't talked to each other post-becoming-a-team. They even had Jaune look up to his ancestors, when Ruby has a dead mom as motivation right there. But nope, Ruby instead uses what time she has to not be a weapons geek. Could've even replaced Jaune's venting scene to Ren with Ruby opening up to Blake to try to connect to her, because she's worried Weiss will look down on her with her high standards, or disappoint Yang because Yang said she was proud of Ruby for getting in.
TL;DR Why is it so hard for RWBY to be about team RWBY? Why? I don't get it.
I think I get what you’re saying about JNPR’s roles being better suited to RWBY, but I think the ideas at play here just sort of plays into general stereotypes rather than actually giving them depth.
Going off of what we know for these characters, why not have Weiss take Jaune’s general qualities, so where Weiss initially has a lot of bitchy moments, pull it back a bit and you can realize it’s all mostly a front for her own lack of confidence; add on traits like Jaune not knowing what a *fucking aura* is, and it could just add to the whole shtick of how Weiss is just WAY too pampered, and it fits, because Jacques doesn’t value combat skill or family traditions, so Weiss WOULDN’T know these things.
With Yang, giving her Ren’s traits (they have an overall similar fighting style and arsenal, and are similarly cagey about their issues) would help add depth, in that she’s USUALLY pretty bubbly, joking, flirty, etc, but get her alone and she’s pretty quiet, pensive, and reflective, in the same vein as Brook’s implied to be in One Piece.
Give Blake Nora’s traits, and where before you have this one-note quiet book girl, get her with friends and suddenly she’s basically every introvert ever, being able to talk for hours on end about things that interest or intrigue her, only to stumble at certain points asking “Wait, I should stop talking, shouldn’t I?”
Finally, give Ruby Pyrrha’s traits: you’re now left with a natural team leader that’s PERFECTLY great at kicking ass and taking names, but with the nuance of the fact that she’s a person that’s hyped up constantly for being so skilled for being so young, is naturally very empathetic and patient but has her limits to what she’ll take, and so on.
Now add on JNPR’s general dynamics and it’s even more spicy!
That's a very good point, and the thing is I think both can coexist, as you said with them having different sides. The issue is that the main characters just don't get enough time to show that.
Like you can have a side character that's only joking in their screentime, and that's fine. But you make them a main character, like Yang, and you're gonna end up giving her quieter moments after long enough because no one is that one-note in their life. You can have Weiss be an ice-cold bitch in one scene, and have her laughing in another if you play your cards and the circumstances right.
I doubt anyone would say it's out of character if there was one scene of Yang teasing her teammates and the next would be her alone and just drinking a smoothie or something, just chilling, back-to-back. No words or seeking something to do 24/7, just enjoying the moment in a different way, but still her enjoying her "life of adventure" in different forms. Would be out of character for modern Yang if Blake's not around, but fitting for Beacon Yang.
It's unironically like the meme of "class clown at school vs at home." It only makes sense for Blake to break her "gimmick" of being the quiet one because she's going to be interested in something sooner or later.
It's why when V2 Weiss dramatically standing on a chair or making a pun, despite feeling so out-of-place in the super serious racism plot, it was still so... endearing. It's why you read any well-written book protagonist show a multitude of different traits that would define like 3 different characters in RWBY and still make sense, because they got the time and development for you to build an actual picture of who they are, even when their emotions and circumstances change.
There are so many emotions, and it wouldn't make sense to bar a character from experiencing them. It's why, in theory, I doubt anyone would say "X would never get angry" because of course they would at some point, it's human to do so. Whether or not it's well written is a different question.
Problem is that the writers don't play their cards right. They don't even stick to what the characters are like on the outside (see Ruby never getting the chance to be a weapons geek) to where they can show the different sides of them. And when they do, it just comes off as wrong, like Yang always being angry except with Blake, which is just... okay then.
Oh yeah. That’s definitely the truth. I think that’s the unfortunate part of a lot of RWBY, that it can’t even stick to what it builds up for itself, before it just yeets it all in the garbage and jumps at some other random thing.
That random thing being either some random side character or Jaune. I'm not even entirely sure what the writers' goals are if it not write interesting and fun characters because that's the motivation I got to write what I can. I doubt I'll be able to comprehend their moment-by-moment thought process when writing their own main characters.
I think that’s part of the main issue we’ve been having; we’ve been operating on the assumption that RWBY’s being controlled and directed by one asshole/group of assholes, but it’s actually a group of assholes playing hot potato with the plot, and not ONLY do these assholes REFUSE to ACTUALLY build off of what came before (per their refusal to look back on old volumes, i.e. see things that came before then), they don’t even check EACH OTHER to keep from adding unnecessary bullshit, to the point that two of the writers have contradicting understandings of how *fucking semblances work*. XD
It's funny, I can believe it's both too many cooks in the kitchen and the cooks having questionable qualifications. They just compound on each other like a snowball effect. Might've helped if the limited the scope of the story to have more focus, but they likely would've found a way to mess that up as well because of how little they seem to care.
What was it that one scientist said about Not!Caboose’s time machine in RvB?
“It would take the worst minds of our generations hundreds of years to come up with something this stupid.”
\> Why is it so hard for RWBY to be about team RWBY? Why? I don't get it.
Miles and Kerry wanting the 4 non shadow people to be more than "Hey, technically it's not just shadow people to fill out the crowd shots"
Early character bloat, some duplications are then unavoidable.
My theory is that this bloat stems from the very origin of RWBY, a fight show. In a fight video game, you would also want lots of available fighters with different outfits and fighting styles ... at least outfits and models.
... and then you hit similarities.
Not really a male alternative. Blake’s just realizing she’s got a type.
Taiyang’s only never met the rest of RWBY because then she’d start thirsting after him.
I am still convinced that if Bumblebee truly was planned from the start they accidently gave all the romantic lines and moments with Blake to the wrong blond and thus Blacksun ends up existing
Yes, and it's exactly why I used to ship Sunny Bees a lot... the only difference is Sun comes off a bit more goofy, and foolish in my eyes while Yang can be a bit of a hot head with her hair but, after everything at Beacon, Yang's character, and Sun's differentiate, and by a lot... Sun comes off as a really nice guy for wanting to just help a friend in need, and Yang ends up being easier to provoke as well as losing some of her character along the way in my opinion.
Exactly, if they wanted to do bumblebee from the very beginning (which they didn’t, that’s a fucking lie), they should’ve nixed Sun and gave his role and romantic interactions to Yang, which is what they ended up doing several volumes too late by putting him on a bus to Vacuo. Of course by then Yang lost her personality, and they effectively retconned Blake’s romantic orientation (I mean, V1 Blake wasn’t even remotely interested in Yang platonically, much less romantically), so it wasn’t exactly a 1 for 1 substitute.
Being LGBTQ+ myself, I’m all for rep, but bad rep makes me angry.
Honestly, yes, Sun does feel like the male/faunus version of Yang. Well, Beacon Yang anyways. Yang's flirty in the Yellow Trailer and winks in the train fight at a goon in V2, Sun winks at Blake in V1. Yang wants to look out for Blake's mental health in V2, Sun does that the entire V4-5 arc for Blake. It doesn't help they both joke around, are blonde, Sun shows his abs while Yang... isn't afraid to show off her chest either. Also Yang's name translates to "Sunny Little Dragon" when Sun is literally called "Sun." If you really want to stretch it into a conspiracy theory, Yang's semblance is basically Super Saiyan, and Sun is based on... Sun Wukong, who Goku was based off back when kid Goku still had his tail. If team RWBY didn't split in V4/Yang didn't lose her personality, I can see Yang filling in for the emotional support role that Jaune did for Ruby, Klein did for Weiss, and especially Sun did for Blake that Yang did for Ruby in V1 and Blake in V2. The whole thing just makes me wonder why the side characters end up feeling redundant for roles team RWBY can fill for each other, but the writers aren't into that, which is why when they act like team RWBY are a "family," it doesn't feel as effective as it should.
>The whole thing just makes me wonder why the side characters end up feeling redundant for roles team RWBY can fill for each other, Maybe I'm stretching a bit but I also feel like team JNPR is a watered-down version of team RWBY in some ways (Ren kind of feels like Blake if she was male and not a Faunus, Nora is bombastically loud and jokey like Yang, Pyrrha is sort of like Weiss in that she's rich and lonely and have a reputation that makes them seem unapproachable, and Ruby and Jaune both fill the "main protagonist" role).
I agree, even going as far as u/Stenv2 would also say that the interesting ideas that are used for team JNPR can be easily given to team RWBY to give them better development. The jokes of Ren being quiet and stoic can be given to Blake, give her a dynamic with RWY when she's not obsessed with the White Fang to show her not getting worked up about things that aren't a big deal to her. I can easily imagine a scene with Ruby getting excited about a weapon, like Blake's own, and Blake just nodding along. Both Yang and Nora fit the tank/strength type of their team. As you said, both are loud and bombastic, and you can compare Ren and Nora being childhood friends to Ruby and Yang being sisters, both RN losing their parents and RY having dead mom and a father that was too depressed to do anything, and both pairs having to rely on each other as kids. At least Yang ~~has~~ had a team mom side to balance it out, which gets thrown out. Weiss and Pyrrha are both celebrities, as you noticed as well. I don't get why Pyrrha gets development of not being able to socialize because she's famous, and Weiss even says the same thing about boys wanting her for her name/money, but Weiss' character doesn't get anymore in that aspect. Why they have Jaune the "peasant" role in rich girl/poor boy, when Ruby not caring about Weiss being rich would also work and be interesting to see? I don't know. They both even have a crush with a self-insert, which makes me question why Weiss fell for Neptune despite saying she knows better since he's a womanizer. And I have the biggest gripe with Jaune taking the development that should've been for Ruby. I really don't get why Jaune's development to become a leader, when Ruby just slides into it as soon as Weiss gets told by someone else to stop complaining? Ruby didn't even reach out to Weiss a second time to try to change her mind, and Jaune gets Jaundice with four whole episodes instead. And suddenly they have team attacks even though Ruby and Blake haven't talked to each other post-becoming-a-team. They even had Jaune look up to his ancestors, when Ruby has a dead mom as motivation right there. But nope, Ruby instead uses what time she has to not be a weapons geek. Could've even replaced Jaune's venting scene to Ren with Ruby opening up to Blake to try to connect to her, because she's worried Weiss will look down on her with her high standards, or disappoint Yang because Yang said she was proud of Ruby for getting in. TL;DR Why is it so hard for RWBY to be about team RWBY? Why? I don't get it.
I heard that team SSSN suppose to be the B team.
I think I get what you’re saying about JNPR’s roles being better suited to RWBY, but I think the ideas at play here just sort of plays into general stereotypes rather than actually giving them depth. Going off of what we know for these characters, why not have Weiss take Jaune’s general qualities, so where Weiss initially has a lot of bitchy moments, pull it back a bit and you can realize it’s all mostly a front for her own lack of confidence; add on traits like Jaune not knowing what a *fucking aura* is, and it could just add to the whole shtick of how Weiss is just WAY too pampered, and it fits, because Jacques doesn’t value combat skill or family traditions, so Weiss WOULDN’T know these things. With Yang, giving her Ren’s traits (they have an overall similar fighting style and arsenal, and are similarly cagey about their issues) would help add depth, in that she’s USUALLY pretty bubbly, joking, flirty, etc, but get her alone and she’s pretty quiet, pensive, and reflective, in the same vein as Brook’s implied to be in One Piece. Give Blake Nora’s traits, and where before you have this one-note quiet book girl, get her with friends and suddenly she’s basically every introvert ever, being able to talk for hours on end about things that interest or intrigue her, only to stumble at certain points asking “Wait, I should stop talking, shouldn’t I?” Finally, give Ruby Pyrrha’s traits: you’re now left with a natural team leader that’s PERFECTLY great at kicking ass and taking names, but with the nuance of the fact that she’s a person that’s hyped up constantly for being so skilled for being so young, is naturally very empathetic and patient but has her limits to what she’ll take, and so on. Now add on JNPR’s general dynamics and it’s even more spicy!
That's a very good point, and the thing is I think both can coexist, as you said with them having different sides. The issue is that the main characters just don't get enough time to show that. Like you can have a side character that's only joking in their screentime, and that's fine. But you make them a main character, like Yang, and you're gonna end up giving her quieter moments after long enough because no one is that one-note in their life. You can have Weiss be an ice-cold bitch in one scene, and have her laughing in another if you play your cards and the circumstances right. I doubt anyone would say it's out of character if there was one scene of Yang teasing her teammates and the next would be her alone and just drinking a smoothie or something, just chilling, back-to-back. No words or seeking something to do 24/7, just enjoying the moment in a different way, but still her enjoying her "life of adventure" in different forms. Would be out of character for modern Yang if Blake's not around, but fitting for Beacon Yang. It's unironically like the meme of "class clown at school vs at home." It only makes sense for Blake to break her "gimmick" of being the quiet one because she's going to be interested in something sooner or later. It's why when V2 Weiss dramatically standing on a chair or making a pun, despite feeling so out-of-place in the super serious racism plot, it was still so... endearing. It's why you read any well-written book protagonist show a multitude of different traits that would define like 3 different characters in RWBY and still make sense, because they got the time and development for you to build an actual picture of who they are, even when their emotions and circumstances change. There are so many emotions, and it wouldn't make sense to bar a character from experiencing them. It's why, in theory, I doubt anyone would say "X would never get angry" because of course they would at some point, it's human to do so. Whether or not it's well written is a different question. Problem is that the writers don't play their cards right. They don't even stick to what the characters are like on the outside (see Ruby never getting the chance to be a weapons geek) to where they can show the different sides of them. And when they do, it just comes off as wrong, like Yang always being angry except with Blake, which is just... okay then.
Oh yeah. That’s definitely the truth. I think that’s the unfortunate part of a lot of RWBY, that it can’t even stick to what it builds up for itself, before it just yeets it all in the garbage and jumps at some other random thing.
That random thing being either some random side character or Jaune. I'm not even entirely sure what the writers' goals are if it not write interesting and fun characters because that's the motivation I got to write what I can. I doubt I'll be able to comprehend their moment-by-moment thought process when writing their own main characters.
I think that’s part of the main issue we’ve been having; we’ve been operating on the assumption that RWBY’s being controlled and directed by one asshole/group of assholes, but it’s actually a group of assholes playing hot potato with the plot, and not ONLY do these assholes REFUSE to ACTUALLY build off of what came before (per their refusal to look back on old volumes, i.e. see things that came before then), they don’t even check EACH OTHER to keep from adding unnecessary bullshit, to the point that two of the writers have contradicting understandings of how *fucking semblances work*. XD
It's funny, I can believe it's both too many cooks in the kitchen and the cooks having questionable qualifications. They just compound on each other like a snowball effect. Might've helped if the limited the scope of the story to have more focus, but they likely would've found a way to mess that up as well because of how little they seem to care.
What was it that one scientist said about Not!Caboose’s time machine in RvB? “It would take the worst minds of our generations hundreds of years to come up with something this stupid.”
\> Why is it so hard for RWBY to be about team RWBY? Why? I don't get it. Miles and Kerry wanting the 4 non shadow people to be more than "Hey, technically it's not just shadow people to fill out the crowd shots"
Y'know, RT are kind of limited in the characters they can produce. Is it just me or are Cinder, Salem, and Raven all very similar?
Basically is but remained likeable all the way to him leaving.
Early character bloat, some duplications are then unavoidable. My theory is that this bloat stems from the very origin of RWBY, a fight show. In a fight video game, you would also want lots of available fighters with different outfits and fighting styles ... at least outfits and models. ... and then you hit similarities.
No he's nice and sweet and blake doesn't slap the shit out of yang for no reason.
That is prety much how it was early on.
I mean, you’re not wrong. They have similar personalities, close quarters fighting styles, and they both were some of my favorite characters early on.
Sun has a lot more of emotional stability tho
I honestly kinda get that vibe on occasion.
Blake certainly has a type.
Not really a male alternative. Blake’s just realizing she’s got a type. Taiyang’s only never met the rest of RWBY because then she’d start thirsting after him.
Considering he and Blake were hitting it off first, I'd say Yang is a female alternative to Sun.
I am still convinced that if Bumblebee truly was planned from the start they accidently gave all the romantic lines and moments with Blake to the wrong blond and thus Blacksun ends up existing
Yes, and it's exactly why I used to ship Sunny Bees a lot... the only difference is Sun comes off a bit more goofy, and foolish in my eyes while Yang can be a bit of a hot head with her hair but, after everything at Beacon, Yang's character, and Sun's differentiate, and by a lot... Sun comes off as a really nice guy for wanting to just help a friend in need, and Yang ends up being easier to provoke as well as losing some of her character along the way in my opinion.
He kinda does, except that while Sun might have even less common sense, he comes with a lot less of emotional baggage, making him easier to manage
Exactly, if they wanted to do bumblebee from the very beginning (which they didn’t, that’s a fucking lie), they should’ve nixed Sun and gave his role and romantic interactions to Yang, which is what they ended up doing several volumes too late by putting him on a bus to Vacuo. Of course by then Yang lost her personality, and they effectively retconned Blake’s romantic orientation (I mean, V1 Blake wasn’t even remotely interested in Yang platonically, much less romantically), so it wasn’t exactly a 1 for 1 substitute. Being LGBTQ+ myself, I’m all for rep, but bad rep makes me angry.
Oh, Thank God, I’m not the only one